if you hair hates protein

[ErinLeigh]

When I read here and on curly sites I notice a lot of people comment their hates protein.
I myself once had protein overload and it was NOT pretty.

My question is..If you determined your hair didn't like it..do you ever use protein or do you shy away from it completely?
Do you find coconut oilings to be enough for balance... or is that even too much so not used?

What made you determine your hair didn't like it? Mine was very obvious (absolute tangled straw) but what are the more subtle signs that take you to the decision? If you do shy from protein do you tend to use less moisturizing products so you don't tip to far the other way?

No reason for asking other than just being curious. I just wonder if anyone here never uses protein in hair at all.

[Rio040113]

I never use it at all... but I have no idea if my hair hates protein as I've never intentionally done a protein treatment or used a very protein heavy product. Any contact my hair has had with protein has been in shampoos/conditioners and the like, probably a long time ago now. My hair has never felt like it needed protein but I've become curious about it lately and I'm planning to do a clarify and chelate soon, so I'm thinking I'll follow it up with a protein treatment and then a nice moisturizing deep treatment after that! I do use coconut oil very regularly, I'm not sure if that's helped reduce protein loss enough for me that my hair has stayed pretty balanced, I'm assuming so? So yeah, I've never intentionally used it but I will soon and then we shall see :o

[Firefox7275]

Protein overload is not the same as true protein sensitivity. Many ingredients can be overused: if you oil heavily you will have greasy hair for example, some oils or butters may also make hair stiff/'dry'/ tangly if they build up or penetrate excessively. Less is often more.

I've seen people blame protein when they aren't using any, when they aren't using hydrolysed protein (substantive form), when they are loading up on far more potent humectants in the wrong dews, and so on. Fine and damaged hair tends to do well with some protein, coarse hair often doesn't need the added stiffness. Many do well with more protein in summer than winter due to dew points/ humidity.

Coconut oil is not a protein, does not add protein and has few properties in common with hydrolsed protein. It is anhydrous, non water soluble, an anti humectant, reduces porosity and increases elasticity, modestly preserves hairs own proteins so maintaining or reducing damage. May not suit cooler temperatures or those with low porosity/ coarser hair that simply doesn't need it's attributes.

The protein-moisture balance is poorly named since hydrolysed protein is a weak humectant and a film former so can aid shine. Most people actually want more conditioning or emollience (softness, slip) when they talk about moisture (= water).

IMO hydrolysed protein is under utilised on LHC, there is no need to leap in with hardcore drying treatments, one can begin with intermittent use of a light rinse out conditioner. Shampoo may not be wise as this aids penetration and hits virgin roots harder than aged ends - not where most of us need it.

[Berlie]

I have never used protein treatments on my hair, never gave it a thought. It must be all the rage once again, my sisters keep talking about their great new protein haul they made at Sally's. For me, my coconut oil hair masks, coupled with Chaz Dean's Wen Cleansing Conditioner, does the trick. That, and only using my blow dryer once a week.

[ositarosita]

My hair is protein sensitive so I use a protein shampoo followed by a purely moisturising conditioner to keep the balance. Seeing as how I only shampoo twice a month my hair is fine with it.

[Johannah]

When I got highlights and I straightened my hair, my hair absolutely LOVED protein. I did a protein treatment every week, even did it overnight!
When I quit heat and highlighting my hair, my hair started hating it. So now I don't do it anymore, it doesn't need it. I do use coconut oil though :)

[Liz_park]

@Firefox7275: Your comment is an awesome explanation!

For me, I have been working on the moisture/protein balance for a few months and have found a good balance. If you colour or highlight your hair, it's especially important to understand that balance because those processes throw off that balance, and hair can benefit from protein after colouring (Or at least mine does!) to restore the balance. By keeping the moisture/protein balance you reduce damage, because your hair is not breaking from being either weak and gummy or dry and brittle.

[ErinLeigh]

@Firefox7275: Your comment is an awesome explanation!

For me, I have been working on the moisture/protein balance for a few months and have found a good balance. If you colour or highlight your hair, it's especially important to understand that balance because those processes throw off that balance, and hair can benefit from protein after colouring (Or at least mine does!) to restore the balance. By keeping the moisture/protein balance you reduce damage, because your hair is not breaking from being either weak and gummy or dry and brittle.

Hmm its weird I bleach but since there is not breakage or porosity issue I never know if I should add some deliberately or not. I have a V05 conditioner the coconut silk one that has hydrolyzed keratin and hair likes that one used once a week. But my hair has been lovely soft lately and had a glass like appearance and while I liked it I wondered if it could get too soft. I sprayed a gentle protein based leave in into hair and went to sleep and when I woke up hair felt a little stiffer and less smooth so I wasn't sure what to think. I imagine it won't hurt things but the slightest texture change was there. I know its temporary but it was odd that I noticed it thru the spray but not the conditioner ever.

Oh as far as coconut oil, I know that is not a protein but I have read in here some protein sensitive people have issues with it so I wondered if the retention of protein was enough for some. Not that coconut added. I should have clarified that thought.

[ErinLeigh]

So here I am. Having the worst hair day I have had in a long time.
End look dry. Top looks flat. Some frizz or something. Texture rougher.
Could one little protein leave in do that much or is it just a bad hair day ?

I cannot wait to remove tomorrow. What do you suggest. Co wash or clarify?

[battles]

I avoid it entirely. Even using a product with protein once, my hair starts to feel awful.

[Firefox7275]

So here I am. Having the worst hair day I have had in a long time.
End look dry. Top looks flat. Some frizz or something. Texture rougher.
Could one little protein leave in do that much or is it just a bad hair day ?

I cannot wait to remove tomorrow. What do you suggest. Co wash or clarify?

Possibly depending on the potency of the protein product, if you have low dews at present and porous hair (presumably since you dye). Try deep conditioning, many can't use protein in winter without a balance of the major emollients. I achieve this with a ton of leave in conditioner (follow Curly Girl anyway).

[Anje]

I avoid it in products that I use frequently, like conditioner, since I've had several overload experiences with hydrolyzed silk and hydrolyzed keratin before I've even used half a bottle of conditioner with normal amounts of these ingredients present (ie, not a damaged hair or reconstructing sort of product, just Cure Care and Suave Tropical Coconut conditioners). I'm not opposed to the infrequent use of products with protein; the purple Adore hair dye I just used had some hydrolyzed protein in it. My hair came out from that a little dry and stiff, but it's nothing a little extra moisturizing won't fix.

[ravenreed]

My hair hates protein, hydrolized or otherwise. It reacts exactly the same to coconut oil as it does to protein. I suspect that further studies down the road will find some protein or protein-like ingredient in coconut oil that causes this to happen.

[ErinLeigh]

Possibly depending on the potency of the protein product, if you have low dews at present and porous hair (presumably since you dye). Try deep conditioning, many can't use protein in winter without a balance of the major emollients. I achieve this with a ton of leave in conditioner (follow Curly Girl anyway).

That is a good plan. So hold off on clarifying since that will just dry and I don't have buildup?
i have the right ingredients you suggest so I will try the conditioning. I hope it restores this odd hair thing I have going on today. Thanks for all the advice. I will keep you updated if tomorrow it even looks a wee bit better. I guess I was still recovering from the keratin overload and this wasn't the time to mess with routine. First time I broke it so live and learn. Nice to have support and advise however :)

[ErinLeigh]

Thanks guys. This was insightful. Bad hair days out me in quite a mood. U wanted to look nice today and was surprised my hair have me the royal middle finger like it did

[cdonald2]

Question for everyone here:

if you accidentally do a protein overload, can your hair be saved? if so how? i have never used it on my hair before but i am going to try a pretty strong (so ive heard) treatment and i want to be sure i know how to fix it if my hair doesnt like it. I feel like its important to at least try it if you never have before in case your hair really does love it.

[Firefox7275]

Question for everyone here:

if you accidentally do a protein overload, can your hair be saved? if so how? i have never used it on my hair before but i am going to try a pretty strong (so ive heard) treatment and i want to be sure i know how to fix it if my hair doesnt like it. I feel like its important to at least try it if you never have before in case your hair really does love it.

The easiest by far is not to overload your hair! There is no reason to leap into a potent treatment - scale up *slowly* in terms of time/ heat/ concentration of product until you hit the 'sweet spot'. If its winter/ low dews where you are it's the wrong time of year to experiment with anything hardcore - many hair types don't do well with anything but the weakest humectants in those sort of conditions.

How you recover depends how severe the overload is/ how substantive the protein you used was. Many people need to follow a hard drying type treatment with an intensive conditioner. The most substantive proteins are the modified hydrolysed ones - these have long names of three or four words. You wouldn't normally expect to get build up from amino acids they are very small and water soluble.

If deep conditioning doesn't work you will need to use a harsh clarifying shampoo, possibly more than once which is why I suggest avoiding build up in the first place. It can then be hard to know if the dryness and tangles are down to the protein or the shampoo.

[Tia2010]

Right now I don't dye my hair, it's on the curly side, in nice condition, and seems to really like protein. :)

I prefer a moisturizing shampoo and conditioner, but I do a protein treatment about once every three months and my hair always looks and feels so full, thick and soft afterwards.

If I do overdo it on the protein, it feels weird to me...not dry, but thinner somehow.. I can just feel it and I know I have overdone it...so I just do a good deep treatment and it usually straightens itself out.

I'm thinking of highlighting my hair (still debating) so I'll have to see if it still likes it after that.

[Anje]

Question for everyone here:

if you accidentally do a protein overload, can your hair be saved? if so how? i have never used it on my hair before but i am going to try a pretty strong (so ive heard) treatment and i want to be sure i know how to fix it if my hair doesnt like it. I feel like its important to at least try it if you never have before in case your hair really does love it.

Oh, definitely. Clarifying never helped in the least when I had it, despite that it seems to be the standard advice. It's worth doing it, but don't do it 4 or 5 times (like I did) if it doesn't work the first time. Just moisturize with something protein-free, intensively. For me, it was a week or two of near-daily SMTs that got my hair from sticky velcro back to its silky self.

Just wish I hadn't hacked off inches in desperation when it happened. It didn't even help.

[ErinLeigh]

Oh, definitely. Clarifying never helped in the least when I had it, despite that it seems to be the standard advice. It's worth doing it, but don't do it 4 or 5 times (like I did) if it doesn't work the first time. Just moisturize with something protein-free, intensively. For me, it was a week or two of near-daily SMTs that got my hair from sticky velcro back to its silky self.

Just wish I hadn't hacked off inches in desperation when it happened. It didn't even help.

i did the same thing and to this day I wonder if that hair could have been saved! gah!
So Ange you vote no on clarifying also..hmmm. I toyed with doing that and a SMT but decided choose honey co wash. You're right, I think clarifying may be too much right now. Maybe in a week if I don't get a good turn around perhaps.

So before bed last night I misted with water, added some leave in conditioner and avocado oil. I will do the honey co wash today and hope it looks decent enough for my boyfriend's birthday dinner this evening.

Usually I use coconut before a honey wash but I was hesitant using it last night. I will go back to it for next was but I am hoping I do not regret the decision not to use it this time.

But to answer the other posters question. good conditioning, humectants, and penetrating oils is what turned my hair around last time I had too much protein in hair. It turned around quickly too. I just panicked myself because I had finally gotten my routine down and now I have to adjust and rethink about things again and am not happy about it.

SMTS are the bomb.

[cdonald2]

What are SMTS? I am doing my first protein treatment this weekend so i was curious how to handle if something goes wrong.

[molljo]

What are SMTS? I am doing my first protein treatment this weekend so i was curious how to handle if something goes wrong.

Snowymoon's Moisture Treatment http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128

[cranberrymoonz]

I used to co-wash a lot, but my ends would allways be coarse, stiff and crunchy. So I added even more conditioner thinking my hair needed a LOT of moisture. Later I found out my hair hated the hydrolized wheat protein in it. So I switched to a sulfate free shampoo and a thick moisturising conditioner (no protein, no cones). That helped for a while, but my end still felt a little dry and weird. Usually it would be okay after washing but 1-2 days later the ends would misbehave again.

I figured less is more for my hair so I stopped using products alltogether exept for my mild shampoo. I used it once a week so I could spread my natural oils as a conditioner. That was lovely but my BBB significantly thinned out my hair in only a month time. So I went back to washing my scalp more often and using coconut oil on the ends last week.

I think I have been using to much oil (on dry hair) yesterday night though and my ends feel terrible again. I'm not sure what to do now. Should I use conditioner again? SMT's haven't been that great: my hair felt like it usually did after conditioning. (the last time I did it last summer) Should I whitch up my oil? I liked argan oil before. Or should I just try not to overdo the oiling? I'm desperate for a crunchy end remedy. FYI It's winter now here (pretty humid)

I cut off an inch at the start of this year but that didn't help that much, although it did help for the thinning.

[jupiterinleo]

I used to co-wash a lot, but my ends would allways be coarse, stiff and crunchy. So I added even more conditioner thinking my hair needed a LOT of moisture. Later I found out my hair hated the hydrolized wheat protein in it. So I switched to a sulfate free shampoo and a thick moisturising conditioner (no protein, no cones). That helped for a while, but my end still felt a little dry and weird. Usually it would be okay after washing but 1-2 days later the ends would misbehave again.

I figured less is more for my hair so I stopped using products alltogether exept for my mild shampoo. I used it once a week so I could spread my natural oils as a conditioner. That was lovely but my BBB significantly thinned out my hair in only a month time. So I went back to washing my scalp more often and using coconut oil on the ends last week.

I think I have been using to much oil (on dry hair) yesterday night though and my ends feel terrible again. I'm not sure what to do now. Should I use conditioner again? SMT's haven't been that great: my hair felt like it usually did after conditioning. (the last time I did it last summer) Should I whitch up my oil? I liked argan oil before. Or should I just try not to overdo the oiling? I'm desperate for a crunchy end remedy. FYI It's winter now here (pretty humid)

I cut off an inch at the start of this year but that didn't help that much, although it did help for the thinning.

Do you have low-porosity hair? It could be build-up/overuse. My hair is fine so I get oil build-up really easily. Now I don't add oil on dry hair anymore (I do occasionally when I'm gonna wear it in a braid for a long period, just to smooth it out). I used to have similar issues, and my hair condition noticeably improved when I only added oil on my damp hair after a wash.

[Anje]

I used to co-wash a lot, but my ends would allways be coarse, stiff and crunchy. So I added even more conditioner thinking my hair needed a LOT of moisture. Later I found out my hair hated the hydrolized wheat protein in it. So I switched to a sulfate free shampoo and a thick moisturising conditioner (no protein, no cones). That helped for a while, but my end still felt a little dry and weird. Usually it would be okay after washing but 1-2 days later the ends would misbehave again.

I figured less is more for my hair so I stopped using products alltogether exept for my mild shampoo. I used it once a week so I could spread my natural oils as a conditioner. That was lovely but my BBB significantly thinned out my hair in only a month time. So I went back to washing my scalp more often and using coconut oil on the ends last week.

I think I have been using to much oil (on dry hair) yesterday night though and my ends feel terrible again. I'm not sure what to do now. Should I use conditioner again? SMT's haven't been that great: my hair felt like it usually did after conditioning. (the last time I did it last summer) Should I whitch up my oil? I liked argan oil before. Or should I just try not to overdo the oiling? I'm desperate for a crunchy end remedy. FYI It's winter now here (pretty humid)

I cut off an inch at the start of this year but that didn't help that much, although it did help for the thinning.

Definitely start with a good clarifying (and if it's not obvious, shampoo from root to tip when clarifying, instead of just the roots like you do with a normal hair wash). If I were you, I'd go back to conditioning after that, but double-check to see if there are any silicones in what you're using. Your description of hair that feels good a day after washing but dry at the ends 1-2 days later sounds a lot like how my hair reacts to silicones. (I think in my case it was probably a volatile silicone like cyclopentasiloxane that caused this, but I haven't had much luck isolating silicones from one another.)

Regarding oils, in my own experience, hair goes through phases where it likes one oil or another or none at all. Mine likes oil vastly more now (and is less picky) than when I joined LHC. My hair wasn't particularly damaged then, but it probably is less now despite the longer length, and it seems plausible to me that hair with some sorts of damage respond more poorly to oil. If you're desperate to put something on your ends, I'd suggest trying Nightblooming Panacea or Fox's Shea Butter Conditioning Cream (which is a recipe you can dig up somewhere around here...). The conditioning agents along with oils that those seem to work well on hair that might not tolerate straight oil.

[cranberrymoonz]

Yeah, clarifying doesn't work for more than a day either. And I'm sure there isn't any silicone in my conditioner: I checked the ingredients and it even says ''no silicones'' on the bottle. Is there any balmy conditioner thing that doesn't have protein? I rhough nightblooming did. I do have low porosity hair, but I'm suspecting my ends are actually porous because they hold semi permanent dye longer (?)

[Anje]

I don't think Biolage Conditioning Balm has protein, but it seems like every ingredient list I can find for it is different, and I saw one that did include it. I'd recommend the Sally Beauty/GVP knock-off of it, but I imagine that would be hard to get on your side of the pond and thus generally unhelpful. As far as the Nightblooming Panacea goes, I believe that the winter formulation is protein-free.

[cranberrymoonz]

I guess it's coconut oil overuse like you mentioned, jupiterinleo. I read somewhere it does that because it penetrates the hair. I guess I'll go easy on the coconut oil for now, maybe try some non-penetrating oils I have lying around and only use it on damp hair. I tried panacea's once at a meeting, but wasn't that fond of it. Maybe I'll try it again when I can afford it;) Also, my ends got a lot better after not doing anything to them for a day. They still feel a little dry though, as always.

[woodswanderer]

I tried CO washing a couple years ago and was using a conditioner with protein. My hair became terribly tangly and I doubt I will ever dare use protein again. I do use coconut oil, but it hasn't caused any issues that I can tell.

[RachelRose]

Having this issue as we speak . My hair also reacts terribly to coconut oil not sure why . I cut length off because of it and now after learning about protein I'm starting to think that was it too .