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View Full Version : When is hair no longer considered "virgin"?



ExpectoPatronum
January 4th, 2014, 02:45 PM
So...when does your hair lose its virginity so to speak?

I know permanent type of things cause hair to no longer be considered virgin...But what about things like semi-permanent dye? I'm just curious because I spent years growing out virgin hair and I dyed it yesterday with a (rather pretty) brown red semi dye. Did I just lost my hair virginity all over again? :P

Llama
January 4th, 2014, 02:50 PM
I think that technically virgin hair is hair that has never been dyed using any sort of chemicals, including semi perm color. :D

NuclearApple
January 4th, 2014, 02:52 PM
I agree with Liama, virgin hair is hair that has never been dyed or chemically treated :)

lapushka
January 4th, 2014, 02:52 PM
I think that technically virgin hair is hair that has never been dyed using any sort of chemicals, including semi perm color. :D

Exactly this. Virgin hair is hair that is completely free of *any* dye, and all chemical processes.

ExpectoPatronum
January 4th, 2014, 02:57 PM
Darn....Well at least I love the color. Thank you everyone!

browneyedsusan
January 4th, 2014, 03:40 PM
My hair virginity s a henna hussy, but if it looks virgin, and behaves virgin, it's virgin isn't it? Hair ties and mechanical damage dont affect virginity, so I'd think when the dye faded, the virginity would be restored?

Arwenlily
January 4th, 2014, 03:42 PM
Can you get hair to be virgin again?

lapushka
January 4th, 2014, 03:50 PM
Can you get hair to be virgin again?

Yes, when you grow it out. :p

Arwenlily
January 4th, 2014, 03:54 PM
Yes, when you grow it out. :p

Sweet :cool: I can't wait for my hair to be virgin again. I wonder how long my hair would have to be ....

askan
January 4th, 2014, 04:04 PM
What about sunbleach and things you can do to help that process, like lemon? or chamomille rinses for a yellow tone? =)

lapushka
January 4th, 2014, 04:09 PM
What about sunbleach and things you can do to help that process, like lemon? or chamomille rinses for a yellow tone? =)

I think anything that you purposely do to your hair makes it no longer be virgin, IMO.

Aingeal
January 4th, 2014, 04:12 PM
My hair virginity s a henna hussy, but if it looks virgin, and behaves virgin, it's virgin isn't it? Hair ties and mechanical damage dont affect virginity, so I'd think when the dye faded, the virginity would be restored?

ha! Love it! I think my hair is loving the henna too so I dont see virginity coming back. Lol

truepeacenik
January 4th, 2014, 04:23 PM
Virginity is overrated.
It's a mere definition.

lapushka
January 4th, 2014, 04:36 PM
Virginity is overrated.
It's a mere definition.

Oh well... :p I'm still proud of my virgin hair, though. ;)

askan
January 4th, 2014, 04:40 PM
I think anything that you purposely do to your hair makes it no longer be virgin, IMO.

Thanks! I think I would consider sunbleach to be virgin, and other non-permanent changes with little impact on the hair semi-virgin... but maybe there are more specific criteria among people who work with hair?

GoddesJourney
January 4th, 2014, 05:17 PM
My hair virginity s a henna hussy, but if it looks virgin, and behaves virgin, it's virgin isn't it? Hair ties and mechanical damage dont affect virginity, so I'd think when the dye faded, the virginity would be restored?

I love the conversations we have here. ;)

WoolSweater
January 4th, 2014, 05:20 PM
I'd say virgin hair is hair that has had nothing done to it, natural or not. No dyes, no tints, no lemon, no perm, whatnot. Sun bleach is tricky... if someone with virgin hair goes to the Bahamas for a week, it's not like their newly lightened hair is no longer virgin. They didn't purposefully do it, and it also means only people who never step outside without a straw hat, scarf, and hair sunscreen would only be the virgin-haired. All this to say, my hair is a total hooker. :(

swearnsue
January 4th, 2014, 05:29 PM
Virginity is overrated.
It's a mere definition.

I agree with truepeacenik! LOL!!! I believe in hennaing as often as possible!

chen bao jun
January 4th, 2014, 06:00 PM
Yes, no dyeing and no chemical processes and also virgin hair (as defined by people who buy and sell hair, which is what the definition is for) has not been heat treated.

I think of it as more related to extra virgin olive oil (and evco) than to human virginity, lol

It does not necessarily equate to hair in good condition, though. I had completely virgin hair for ten years that was in very poor condition indeed. It had a lot of mechanical damage. However, none of it was from heat.

I don't think sun bleaching counts, but lemon bleaching would count.

If you are not going to sell your hair, I don't suppose it matters at all--however, I do LOVE having completely virgin hair (which I do). Especially now that its in really good (LHC stamp of approval, is there such a thing?) condition.

DebieT
January 4th, 2014, 06:05 PM
I agree, love my henna way to much!

heidi w.
January 4th, 2014, 06:30 PM
Well, nothing to contribute because you all have the right idea. Anything done to the hair, chemical or not, means its not virgin. And yes, you can get virgin hair again if you re-grow your hair which I'm right in the middle of doing. I have a long time to wait.
heidi w.

HintOfMint
January 4th, 2014, 08:22 PM
I think virgin means hair that's free from permanent dye (so I wouldn't consider Manic Panic and ones that eventually fade away without leaving a mark to be taking away one's hair virginity), and free from chemical perms. Heat, temporary and semi-permanent dyes, and sun bleach (because how is having hair outside in the sun not its natural state, or at least part of the natural wear and tear that comes from being a human being?) don't make hair "not virgin." Apparently, I have a very narrow definition of virginity. This may or may not correspond with my definition of human virginity :D

ExpectoPatronum
January 4th, 2014, 10:02 PM
I think virgin means hair that's free from permanent dye (so I wouldn't consider Manic Panic and ones that eventually fade away without leaving a mark to be taking away one's hair virginity), and free from chemical perms. Heat, temporary and semi-permanent dyes, and sun bleach (because how is having hair outside in the sun not its natural state, or at least part of the natural wear and tear that comes from being a human being?) don't make hair "not virgin." Apparently, I have a very narrow definition of virginity. This may or may not correspond with my definition of human virginity :D

This is my thinking too, to be honest. Once the dye fades/washes away, there's really no way of telling that anything was done to the hair. It's a temporary change, like flat ironing.

Wildcat Diva
January 4th, 2014, 10:43 PM
I think my hair has got to second base because the ends are sunbleached.

LadyCelestina
January 5th, 2014, 02:29 AM
The How I lost hair Virginity thread :eyebrows:

Stray_mind
January 5th, 2014, 02:36 AM
It would be a great thread :cool:

sapphire-o
January 5th, 2014, 02:37 AM
I once grabbed a sharpie and drew on my single strand of silver hair and made it black. :D Did that count as anything? It didn't last even two shampoo. I suspect my hair has tight cuticles and doesn't take dye easily. Back when I was doing Indian herbal washing I think they dyed my hair a bit brown, because my nails got a bit brown. But they washed off after a few shampoo.

Firefox7275
January 5th, 2014, 10:38 AM
So...when does your hair lose its virginity so to speak?

I know permanent type of things cause hair to no longer be considered virgin...But what about things like semi-permanent dye? I'm just curious because I spent years growing out virgin hair and I dyed it yesterday with a (rather pretty) brown red semi dye. Did I just lost my hair virginity all over again? :P

To me it's anything that changes your hair properties/ significantly damages the hair such that it is much more porous or otherwise behaves differently. Semi permanent dyes are nothing more than colour molecules in a conditioner or shampoo base, there is no measurable damage.

Technically virgin usually means not chemical processed so not highlighted, permanent dyed, relaxed, curly permed and the like. One might also stretch it to include hair that has not been heavily heat styled, regularly shampoo'd with harsh surfactants/ alkaline agents or sun damaged as all these can quite quickly destroy the 18-MEA, damage the cuticle, increase porosity and reduce elasticity. IIRC 200 hours of sun exposure is equivalent to persulphate bleaching the hair.

Just to confuse matters some hair types will suffer more than others - coarse or low porosity hair may well be fine with strong cleansing methods, whereas fine or naturally porous hair may really suffer.

Wosie
January 5th, 2014, 11:00 AM
Would you consider making SMTs with honey to be non-virgin afterwards, if it lightens the hair colour ever so slightly?

ExpectoPatronum
January 5th, 2014, 12:01 PM
Wow this has really turned into an interesting thread with everyone's opinion on what constitutes virgin hair. Who would have thought there would be as varied opinions as there are for...other things :P

HintOfMint
January 5th, 2014, 12:22 PM
The How I lost hair Virginity thread :eyebrows:

That would be a hilarious thread! Also what are the bases? This may be pushing the forum's PG-13 guidelines though, haha!

Yozhik
January 5th, 2014, 12:57 PM
Hm, interesting! I'd consider heat styled hair not to be virgin, but that's just me. :hmm:

If SMTs lighten, then I guess cinnamon and rosemary would also be no-nos? Hook-ups with the herbs/spices, if you will. :laugh:

I don't place a lot of value on virgin hair, but what I do track is pre- and post-LHC hair. Since I've been on here for 4+ years now and have cut about 1.5 feet of hair (more than half my growth), I'm pretty sure my hair is all post-LHC hair. :)

PraiseCheeses
January 5th, 2014, 01:21 PM
:tmi: I'm pretty sure my hair lost its innocence upon penetration by its first Timberstone Turning Chloe stick. :lipssealed:

Yozhik
January 5th, 2014, 02:26 PM
^^ :wacko: :rolling: :rollin:

chen bao jun
January 5th, 2014, 02:46 PM
Hm, interesting! I'd consider heat styled hair not to be virgin, but that's just me. :hmm:

If SMTs lighten, then I guess cinnamon and rosemary would also be no-nos? Hook-ups with the herbs/spices, if you will. :laugh:

I don't place a lot of value on virgin hair, but what I do track is pre- and post-LHC hair. Since I've been on here for 4+ years now and have cut about 1.5 feet of hair (more than half my growth), I'm pretty sure my hair is all post-LHC hair. :)
No, its not just you. This thread is funny and fun to read lol. But there is an industry standard on what constitutes virgin hair (used by people who sell hair for extensions) and no, heat-styled hair is not virgin. Although people lie and cheat customers (as with everything else, its not government regulated so can't be enforced, so let the buyer beware) virgin hair, not having had certain things done to it, is EXPENSIVE to buy for your extensions as it is considered higher quality, for the simple reason that it lasts much longer, detached from the original owners' heads.
People 'source' hair from specific places where the women do not have access to hair salons and modern products and thus do not color, perm or heat style their hair. These places--Indian temples, remote Chinese and South American villages and what is called 'Russia' for the purpose of hair extensions (not Russia itself usually as it is now more prosperous, but former Russian federation places, like Ukraine) also have women who are poor enough to want to sell their hair (or are easily exploited with forced haircuts, like the girls in Ukrainian orphanages, women in prisons and apparently, women in some South American cities where gangs operate without police interference) but who are well-nourished enough to have suitable hair.
Hair can also be not 'virgin' because the hair seller processed it after being cut to make it more desirable to potential customers--for example, black colored Chinese or Indian hair being dumped into an acid bath and then dyed lighter colors and then dumped in a silicone bath--but it needs to be in great condition for the processors to treat it so harshly and survive, so 'virgin' when it was bought, if not when sold.
Women in these places are also extremely unlikely to have access to sulphate shampoo or to do things like lemon bleach or sunbleach. Which is why people go to these places for hair and not to countries where those who do LHC practices are a small minority. Looking for virgin hair in the US and in Western Europe and even big cities now in China or Russia is like--well, you all can make your own comparisons. That's why people here are extension buyers, not hair sellers.
And if you are not planning to cut your hair and ebay it, it really doesn't matter if it's 'virgin' or not--except for your own private satisfaction, if you have the kind of hair that is beautiful (or that YOU think is beautiful, which is a different thing) completely 'natural'. I say that 'YOU think is beautiful' because there are so many people with objectively beautiful hair that dislike it in its completely natural state (that is, virgin.)

jeanniet
January 5th, 2014, 03:20 PM
Yes, no dyeing and no chemical processes and also virgin hair (as defined by people who buy and sell hair, which is what the definition is for) has not been heat treated.

I think of it as more related to extra virgin olive oil (and evco) than to human virginity, lol

It does not necessarily equate to hair in good condition, though. I had completely virgin hair for ten years that was in very poor condition indeed. It had a lot of mechanical damage. However, none of it was from heat.

I don't think sun bleaching counts, but lemon bleaching would count.

If you are not going to sell your hair, I don't suppose it matters at all--however, I do LOVE having completely virgin hair (which I do). Especially now that its in really good (LHC stamp of approval, is there such a thing?) condition.

This is my definition of virgin hair, too (I mean including heat), but totally agree on the not necessarily healthy part. I had completely virgin hair up to my mid-20s, but it was pretty trashed because I didn't take particularly good care of it. "Virgin" is really just a label that can't be equated with somehow magical hair.

jeanniet
January 5th, 2014, 03:24 PM
This is my thinking too, to be honest. Once the dye fades/washes away, there's really no way of telling that anything was done to the hair. It's a temporary change, like flat ironing.

Flat ironing is a permanent change, though, even if you can't see it. The structure of the hair is changed. That's why I'd say flat ironed hair is no longer virgin. But I don't think sun-bleached hair has, ah, been besmirched (haha) because it should be something you consciously do to the hair.

chen bao jun
January 5th, 2014, 04:13 PM
Flat ironing is a permanent change, though, even if you can't see it. The structure of the hair is changed. That's why I'd say flat ironed hair is no longer virgin. But I don't think sun-bleached hair has, ah, been besmirched (haha) because it should be something you consciously do to the hair.
Yes, when I was growing out my hair first there was a clear difference between the hair that had been ever flat ironed (and by this, I mean once a month for about 4 months one year and I do have coarse STRONG hair) and the hair that had never been touched. And the older the hair got, the more trashed it was, although not being flatironed since that short time.
Blowdrying on hot does the same thing. Because you don't see it, doesn't mean nothing is happening, its just gradual.

ExpectoPatronum
January 5th, 2014, 04:22 PM
^^You have a point there.

lapushka
January 6th, 2014, 03:22 AM
Flat ironing is a permanent change, though, even if you can't see it. The structure of the hair is changed. That's why I'd say flat ironed hair is no longer virgin. But I don't think sun-bleached hair has, ah, been besmirched (haha) because it should be something you consciously do to the hair.

Then what about blowdrying? On warm (so it doesn't "burn" the hand in the airstream or the hair). I would still consider it virgin hair when blowdrying with caution.

LadyCelestina
January 6th, 2014, 04:29 AM
As long as it doesn't change the structure of the hair,which typically doesn't happen until the temperature is really high, there is no reason why blowdrying should make the hair less virgin :D

Anyway,what about prolonged exposure to water and hygral fatigue? :D Should I buy virgin dewaterized water? :D

Mizumi
January 6th, 2014, 06:14 AM
Wait, if I had henna streaks and it faded almost completely, my hair is not virgin already? :o

Stray_mind
January 6th, 2014, 06:23 AM
Wait, if I had henna streaks and it faded almost completely, my hair is not virgin already? :o

i am not sure.. Henna is natural product not chemical... But it changes hair colour and virgin hair should be the colour wich you have naturally, defined by genes...:confused:

lapushka
January 6th, 2014, 07:17 AM
Virgin hair is a state of natural hair. You can't go around *changing* it with dye and calling it "natural", even though the dye itself is.

browneyedsusan
January 6th, 2014, 07:46 AM
IMHO, henna changes hair permanently. It makes it redder, stronger, softer, shinier, less curly, etcetera; thus deflowering the original hair.

chen bao jun
January 6th, 2014, 07:49 AM
OK, this is not a thread where people want information, it's a thread where (some) people want to define their hair as something that it's not, even though it doesn't really matter if it is or not, so long as its condition makes you happy.
I don't know about anybody else, but I don't have a lot of conversations in which people walk up and ask, So tell me, do you have virgin hair? And no one recently has asked me to sit in a forest and unloose my hair to attract a unicorn--no, wait, it's not my HAIR that even unicorns care about...
So.....

lapushka
January 6th, 2014, 08:37 AM
OK, this is not a thread where people want information, it's a thread where (some) people want to define their hair as something that it's not, even though it doesn't really matter if it is or not, so long as its condition makes you happy.
I don't know about anybody else, but I don't have a lot of conversations in which people walk up and ask, So tell me, do you have virgin hair? And no one recently has asked me to sit in a forest and unloose my hair to attract a unicorn--no, wait, it's not my HAIR that even unicorns care about...
So.....

That just made me smile! :D

Firefox7275
January 6th, 2014, 09:55 AM
As long as it doesn't change the structure of the hair,which typically doesn't happen until the temperature is really high, there is no reason why blowdrying should make the hair less virgin :D

Anyway,what about prolonged exposure to water and hygral fatigue? :D Should I buy virgin dewaterized water? :D

Even without the highest temperatures heat styling can cause cracks in the cuticle. If, say, a round brush is used repeatedly on wet hair that can strip away the protective cuticle and cause breakage. Depends what level of heat styling is done what damage is caused. It's not known as a blow fryer on LHC for no reason, tho the way most here would use one is not the norm and would not create significant damage.

LadyCelestina
January 6th, 2014, 09:55 AM
OK, this is not a thread where people want information, it's a thread where (some) people want to define their hair as something that it's not, even though it doesn't really matter if it is or not, so long as its condition makes you happy.
I don't know about anybody else, but I don't have a lot of conversations in which people walk up and ask, So tell me, do you have virgin hair? And no one recently has asked me to sit in a forest and unloose my hair to attract a unicorn--no, wait, it's not my HAIR that even unicorns care about...
So.....
Well ...it might matter to some :flower:.

HintOfMint
January 6th, 2014, 12:03 PM
No, its not just you. This thread is funny and fun to read lol. But there is an industry standard on what constitutes virgin hair (used by people who sell hair for extensions) and no, heat-styled hair is not virgin. Although people lie and cheat customers (as with everything else, its not government regulated so can't be enforced, so let the buyer beware) virgin hair, not having had certain things done to it, is EXPENSIVE to buy for your extensions as it is considered higher quality, for the simple reason that it lasts much longer, detached from the original owners' heads.
People 'source' hair from specific places where the women do not have access to hair salons and modern products and thus do not color, perm or heat style their hair. These places--Indian temples, remote Chinese and South American villages and what is called 'Russia' for the purpose of hair extensions (not Russia itself usually as it is now more prosperous, but former Russian federation places, like Ukraine) also have women who are poor enough to want to sell their hair (or are easily exploited with forced haircuts, like the girls in Ukrainian orphanages, women in prisons and apparently, women in some South American cities where gangs operate without police interference) but who are well-nourished enough to have suitable hair.
Hair can also be not 'virgin' because the hair seller processed it after being cut to make it more desirable to potential customers--for example, black colored Chinese or Indian hair being dumped into an acid bath and then dyed lighter colors and then dumped in a silicone bath--but it needs to be in great condition for the processors to treat it so harshly and survive, so 'virgin' when it was bought, if not when sold.
Women in these places are also extremely unlikely to have access to sulphate shampoo or to do things like lemon bleach or sunbleach. Which is why people go to these places for hair and not to countries where those who do LHC practices are a small minority. Looking for virgin hair in the US and in Western Europe and even big cities now in China or Russia is like--well, you all can make your own comparisons. That's why people here are extension buyers, not hair sellers.
And if you are not planning to cut your hair and ebay it, it really doesn't matter if it's 'virgin' or not--except for your own private satisfaction, if you have the kind of hair that is beautiful (or that YOU think is beautiful, which is a different thing) completely 'natural'. I say that 'YOU think is beautiful' because there are so many people with objectively beautiful hair that dislike it in its completely natural state (that is, virgin.)

Very good point about industry standards for extensions, have not thought of that.
However, I think plans for future processing (a perm, Japanese straightening, or even just a regular old dye job with highlights) are affected by whether or not hair is "virgin." Virgin is referring to whether hair has been permed or colored (henna included) because previous chemical processing can result in unintended effects like the perm not taking, or the color being different from what you wanted. My roommate says that she wanted to have the Japanese straightening done but couldn't because she colors her hair. I don't know if heat damage causes the same concerns other than possibly future breakage. Although maybe it does. Anyhow, every time I've heard the term "virgin hair" it's in the context of how it will take perms or color and some hairstylists need to take into account the hair's history with those processes.

So by hairdresser's "blank slate" standard, I have virgin hair, but by extension industry standard, I don't. And I've had virgin hair that was utterly trashed simply from mechanical damage and dry winter air. So hair virginity can be a silly standard for one's personal satisfaction.

chen bao jun
January 6th, 2014, 02:06 PM
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a481/uloma1/dame-a-la-licorne-la-vue-1_zps9bc6f1dd.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/uloma1/media/dame-a-la-licorne-la-vue-1_zps9bc6f1dd.jpg.html)

maborosi
January 8th, 2014, 08:34 AM
IMHO, henna changes hair permanently. It makes it redder, stronger, softer, shinier, less curly, etcetera; thus deflowering the original hair.

Yeah my frequently henna/cassia'd hair is probably way stronger than my original hair texture sans henna.

~maborosi~