What do you think about chemical straightening such as keratin treatments...?

[Selene_Thorns]

People keep saying they are horrible for hair, but I really wanted to have straighter hair. (I am 3a or so - 2b by naturallycurly.com (http://www.naturallycurly.com/)'s terms - why is it so different here and there?)

I wanted to ask - I'm a bit confused, since I was referred a few times by people to naturallycurly.com (http://www.naturallycurly.com/) for styling and routine advice for my hair, and the site keeps repeating itself like crazy about avoiding so many things (sulfates, silicones, proteins for my hair type, brushing, etc.).... But it actually advertises kertain treatments (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/keratin-treatments-are-still-white-hot/?page=1)... Could it be that there are good ones among those?
As for what I heard locally (which should be more relevant to me if I will undergo anything), the brazilian blowout is really damaging, and japanese straightening is better - but the japanese method can only be performed on virgin hair, while I henna'd mine 2 months ago. But in case I grow out the henna'd part (that'll be in a while) - do you think the japanese method is good?

Did any of you ever try one of the chemical semi-permanent straightening methods? how did it affect your hair? were you pleased? (I know some people who were really pleased with it and some that were really disappointed as it ruined their hair... I keep wondering what's the difference)

And because it's related, did you ever use any non-chemical or no-heat straightening methods? when my hair was at neck-length I would just dry it in a ponytail and it would be mostly straight with a whirl at the bottom, but now that it's BSL that doesn't really help, as it does just the top part... Do you know a method for long hair?



I know I'm most likely to get comments of "go natural" and "embrace your curls".... So, a little confession that might piss people off, but I do wish to get off my heart...

I don't like curls. Not on me, and not on others either (since there are all those myths about only hating it because it's yours) - it really takes the beauty out of an attractive face to me (nothing against curlies or fans of curls; I just personally find it to make faces less appealing). It's not even about styling - though it's easier for curls to get a bad hair day - the most beautiful curls out there will still make a face less attractive, I guess that's just my natural taste and there's nothing to do about it. Wavy at best can look good, but anything 3a/b/c or beyond is too much.
The first time that my cousin blow dried my hair straight, I was in heaven. I really felt beautiful. It's as though it adds 25% to my beauty score in my eyes. It fixes everything that's wrong with my hair and makes it actually look like hair.
I don't straighten it very often (I only did it for 2 months now, about once a week or so but not every week), because there usually is no reason to work so much on looks (it takes me 45-60 minutes). But if I didn't have to work on it regularly, I'd prefer to have my hair constantly straight. I don't actually feel any compelling need to be "beautiful", I can go natural. But "embracing my curls" would pretty much mean I give up on considering myself beautiful, not finding beauty in what I have. Which I can do, but then why grow hair in the first place? Aren't most of us growing hair for beauty (it doesn't really have too many other uses, does it)?

[biogirl87]

Selene_Thorns, if you truly dislike your curls (I am a little like you in that as much as I like my waves, to me it just seems like a lot of work and a lot of money to get waves to behave, so it is easier for me to treat my 2a hair like it is 1c hair that has a solid wave in it and has a bit of volume) and want to loosen them, silicones might be something to try. I have not had a keratin treatment done on my hair but I have read stories on the internet about how keratin treatments are really damaging over time and how some women actually lose a portion of their hair due to keratin treatments. On uTT, there was a thread about someone thinking about going back to silicones and one member there posted a picture of how silicones really loosened her waves and defined them a bit more. Maybe give silicones a try (using both coney shampoo and coney conditioner). Having silicones in both shampoo and conditioner would weigh down your hair a bit and may loosen your curls into waves enough that you like them. If I were you, I would try silicones before doing something more damaging like keratin treatments.

[HintOfMint]

All I've heard are nightmare stories about Keratin treatments, especially when done long term. I know a girl who has done Japanese straightening but her hair needs to be kept at between APL and BSL before it starts looking ratty. It's beautiful, and looks damn near like glass in terms of glossiness and shine, but she can't grow it long.

It's entirely possible that you have a wave pattern that's malleable and so can be loosened by damp bunning and silicones. Hair wrapping is another thing to look up on youtube, there are plenty of instructions. I have that hairtype (also 2b) and, considering my routine of damp bunning after every wash to make my hair into very loose Kardashian type waves (1C/2A but only spirals instead of S-waves), I'm the last person to recommend "embracing your natural texture." When someone asks how to achieve a certain result and the answer is, "you shouldn't want that!" it's quite annoying, so I understand.

I can't say I appreciate your very detailed and well-articulated point on not liking curls on anyone and having curls be a detraction to nearly everyone's beauty, but hey it's your opinion.
I'm sorry that curls/waves are the deciding factor in considering yourself beautiful. You're an adult and you don't need a perfect stranger to tell you you're more beautiful than you think, especially since I only have your avatar picture to go off of and I'm not a fan of parroting "you're beautiful" to everyone I meet. I'm hoping your feelings are only an exaggeration of how you feel though.

[ErinLeigh]

People keep saying they are horrible for hair, but I really wanted to have straighter hair. (I am 3a or so - 2b by naturallycurly.com (http://www.naturallycurly.com/)'s terms - why is it so different here and there?)

I wanted to ask - I'm a bit confused, since I was referred a few times by people to naturallycurly.com (http://www.naturallycurly.com/) for styling and routine advice for my hair, and the site keeps repeating itself like crazy about avoiding so many things (sulfates, silicones, proteins for my hair type, brushing, etc.).... But it actually advertises kertain treatments (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/keratin-treatments-are-still-white-hot/?page=1)... Could it be that there are good ones among those?
As for what I heard locally (which should be more relevant to me if I will undergo anything), the brazilian blowout is really damaging, and japanese straightening is better - but the japanese method can only be performed on virgin hair, while I henna'd mine 2 months ago. But in case I grow out the henna'd part (that'll be in a while) - do you think the japanese method is good?

Did any of you ever try one of the chemical semi-permanent straightening methods? how did it affect your hair? were you pleased? (I know some people who were really pleased with it and some that were really disappointed as it ruined their hair... I keep wondering what's the difference)

And because it's related, did you ever use any non-chemical or no-heat straightening methods? when my hair was at neck-length I would just dry it in a ponytail and it would be mostly straight with a whirl at the bottom, but now that it's BSL that doesn't really help, as it does just the top part... Do you know a method for long hair?



I know I'm most likely to get comments of "go natural" and "embrace your curls".... So, a little confession that might piss people off, but I do wish to get off my heart...

I don't like curls. Not on me, and not on others either (since there are all those myths about only hating it because it's yours) - it really takes the beauty out of an attractive face to me (nothing against curlies or fans of curls; I just personally find it to make faces less appealing). It's not even about styling - though it's easier for curls to get a bad hair day - the most beautiful curls out there will still make a face less attractive, I guess that's just my natural taste and there's nothing to do about it. Wavy at best can look good, but anything 3a/b/c or beyond is too much.
The first time that my cousin blow dried my hair straight, I was in heaven. I really felt beautiful. It's as though it adds 25% to my beauty score in my eyes. It fixes everything that's wrong with my hair and makes it actually look like hair.
I don't straighten it very often (I only did it for 2 months now, about once a week or so but not every week), because there usually is no reason to work so much on looks (it takes me 45-60 minutes). But if I didn't have to work on it regularly, I'd prefer to have my hair constantly straight. I don't actually feel any compelling need to be "beautiful", I can go natural. But "embracing my curls" would pretty much mean I give up on considering myself beautiful, not finding beauty in what I have. Which I can do, but then why grow hair in the first place? Aren't most of us growing hair for beauty (it doesn't really have too many other uses, does it)?


If your truly hate your curls try the keratin. Why not? Well they are dangerous chemicals and can fry hair if done wrong..but if you are willing to take the risk and you really really want your hair sleek then of course it is an option.

My opinion of them is harder to explain. I loved them. Frizz free hair, straight shiny hair for month on end that doesn't need heat styling is appealing. i have had some great keratin treatments that made me so happy. On the flip side I had 2 very bad ones that resulted in twice now having to cut of a lot of hair - exactly one year apart. For that I hate them. I cannot get past CBL because I keep damaging my hair and losing a years worth of growth.

I posted a thread in Mane forum with pictures of them if you wants to look at it. IF you click my user name it should take you to my profile which will list my postings I think.
I was a recent post..maybe Thursday or Friday?

I guess you have to decide what is more important to you.. frizz free, straight hair or length? You may get lucky and get both so it is hard for me to say. Best of luck to you. I know how hard it is to hate your hair.

[ExpectoPatronum]

My mom gets a keratin treatment - not the Japanese one - and she loves it. Her hair is about SL, but she also gets it cut and colored at the salon as well as heat styles. Sigh.

You can do what I do to get straighter hair. It doesn't take all the wave out, but it works well enough for me. I wait until my hair is dry and then braid it with just a little conditioner. Let that sit overnight (or even a couple hours works). After I take it out and brush it in the morning, a lot of my natural wave is gone. Sure, there's a slight braid wave sometimes but I like the look of it.

I've also heard that henna treatments can loosen curl, thus making your hair more straight. I did cassia once and I did notice my wave wasn't as defined. Maybe consider giving that a try?

[monsoonstorm]

I had Japanese done (I posted in another thread about brazillian blowouts, I thought they were the same thing, but apparently not, it was definitely Japanese Straightening that I had). Brilliant for a short while, turning to a mass of incredibly damaged frizz after a few months. The technique was the same as in the other thread so I'm not sure what the difference is to be honest, I thought they were the same thing when I read the description. Chemical put on head, left for a while, then about an hour sat there with someone using flat irons to straighten it, tiny section by tiny section.

When I asked the hair dresser about the damage, she said that asian/black hair is much coarser than caucasian hair, and thus can "handle the treatment better". Which begs the question "why did she suggest it in the first place?"

My hair was in a slightly longer than jaw length bob when I first had it done and it looked fantastic, I will admit, smooth, glossy, straight (a little too straight perhaps - ZERO volume, just hair that clung to your head regardless of what you did to it). By the time it hit shoulder length it was a complete mess. Of course the hairdresser's advice was to have it redone to remove the frizz... no thanks. I should dig out a photo actually just to put people off...

Having said that, I do have a friend who swears by these "treatments", however, her hair is grey and coarse/wirey, and it is in a jaw length bob and never changes.

I would never advise anyone with long hair to do this.

[ErinLeigh]

oh i forgot to answer the difference in good and bad ones. That really comes down to a few things.
The strength of your hair, the protein and moisture levels, the keratin used (some salons use very cheap ones to save money..ask questions and then look up the product first)
How good the stylist is..will she comb hair smooth enough or rip the iron thru tangled hair and break it? How may passes they do with the iron..10 passes at 450 degrees with a chemical on it is not good for hair! Ask the stylist how many she typically does. I guess those are big factors.
The ones that ruined my hair...one was cheap product with way too many iron passes. The other was a mini treatment. Which to me basically just meant cheaper product and less attention to detail as they rush the procedure. Still same high heat used so may as well do the extended time one. I had I guess what is called success with the others. but I had a lot of shedding and hair slowly became dryer and dryer. I also got protein overload from using all the Keratin products suggested to "extend the life of the treatment"

[monsoonstorm]

I don't see how the stylist's skill will affect anything, it's still putting chemicals on your hair and then using a load of heat whilst essentially stretching the hair. Only difference is how far down the line the damage actually shows.

[monsoonstorm]

By the way OP, it seems we have the same hair type, just about. I've found that henna has relaxed my curl considerably. I still have the occasional spiral when I first take my hair out of the towel, but if I finger comb my hair when it's wet, the spirals basically disappear. I put a little oil on when wet, and by the time it's dry I basically have a soft wave (not frizzy at all - except for my odd grey hair). I've done maybe 6 full head henna's, the rest has been root touch ups. If you like the henna colour, that may be worth a shot.

First 2 applications were Lush, didn't notice much difference. Since then it was Red Raj, that's when I noticed a distinct difference in my curl pattern.

[kidari]

When if comes to chemical treatments you have to remember that you should only stick with one. If you color your hair you really shouldn't be perming it in any way, that includes straightening. Personally, I have never known anyone with hair longer than BSL who got things done like perms (straight or curly). I knew a girl who had really wavy, slightly frizzy hair who looked amazing when she blew it out straight. I honestly think it was the volume she got from her natural curls being blown out that gives this more glamorous "done" look than someone with naturally pin straight hair (probably why they complain about their hair being flat against their head, etc). She got the Japanese straightening done, because she was starting to blow it straight all the time and figured it would just save her time. After she got it done it was nice for a while but then she was realizing it didn't look anywhere near as nice as when it was curly and she blew it out straight and it was because now it was so sleek, shiny, and flat. The problems also became worse when her hair grew out and her roots were curly while the rest was pin straight. After she got her straightening redone a couple times her hair was so damaged she went from almost BSL to above shoulder length and we all agreed she should have never done it in the first place. I know another girl who is a bleached double process blonde and she did a chemical straightener and lost more than 30% of her hair as it was breaking off at the roots! It was such a shame because her hair was gorgeous, she should have just chosen styling or color as we can't have everything we want all the time unfortunately.

My advice would be to search updos for wavy/curly textures (I personally like them better than severe, slicked back updos for straighter hair, but that's because my hair is more straight and I guess the grass is always greener on the other side). I would show off your awesome length and voluminous curly texture in updos and save the 45 minute straightening out only for special occasions and try to get as many days and mileage out of it as possible lol. My hair has some wave to it and can get frizzy. I swear by cones and damp bunning. I've experimented with cassia and I attest to the fact that it changes my texture for a good month- it makes it thicker, fuller, straighter, almost no frizz. Maybe try that out?

[Selene_Thorns]

Hmm, perhaps those that I knew who liked it hadn't waited long enough to see the damage? it's really weird. Because I do hear a lot of terrible stories, but I also hear stories about people really liking it...
Keratin doesn't sound good at all, I know my hair does not like proteins (I recall my roomie once bought a keratin shampoo and conditioner, and it made my hair get greasy twice quicker), but I thought perhaps they add something to get a different effect. I suppose it's a bad idea altogether, my hair is not really coarse (not thin either though). I also heard about henna loosening curls, but my hair stayed pretty much the same after it, so I'm not certain. I only did once anyway. Perhaps I should try Cassia and see if it gives a better result.

And I know it's kind of weird that so much of my own feeling of beauty depends on hair pattern, but everyone has that thing which is very important to them. For some people it's skin, for others eye color, a certain weight, or bigger curves.... I can't say I met someone who doesn't feel that way about something. I'm a hair freak, I'm not sure that'll ever change. Just gotta try to do my best with what I have, I suppose....

[monsoonstorm]

If you like the colour of henna, perhaps try a few more applications? To be honest, I miss my old curl pattern, that's why I switched to the root touch ups.

I think the theory is that the henna bonding to your hair with repeated applications is what causes the relaxing, just one may not be enough.

[Selene_Thorns]

Nah, actually I henna'd because I heard it boosts growth, I knew I wasn't gonna like the color (not that I don't, it's lovely - I just love my natural shade). So I'm thinking Cassia if anything, I think it's supposed to have the same effect, but has to be applied more often (which is a bummer because that technically means more money).

[lapushka]

Nah, actually I henna'd because I heard it boosts growth, I knew I wasn't gonna like the color (not that I don't, it's lovely - I just love my natural shade). So I'm thinking Cassia if anything, I think it's supposed to have the same effect, but has to be applied more often (which is a bummer because that technically means more money).

It depends, doesn't it? Salon cuts and styles (cutting, dyeing, etc.) costs far more than a few 100 grams of cassia every two weeks.

[monsoonstorm]

It depends, doesn't it? Salon cuts and styles (cutting, dyeing, etc.) costs far more than a few 100 grams of cassia every two weeks.

Very true...

I now spend my salon money on hair toys! :D

[chen bao jun]

Honestly, I know a TON of people who hate their curls. I used to think this was just black people with tighter curls who felt like this, but its not. I know a lot of white people who can't stand their curls either and as for thinking that curls look less attractive in general, I think this must be VERY common. If its not, why do so many people come up to me and tell me how much better I look when my hair is straightened? And all the curly girls I know that wear natural hair tell me they hear this a lot. It's not PC to say straight out that you hate curls, but if its true, its true. Maybe it's brainwashing, but what does it matter if the person is miserable?

I think you have got to the root of the real problem for you, which is that you are probably not going to find a way to have straight hair AND long hair at the same time, because straightening hair destroys it. Over at the LHCF, there are a surprising amount of ladies who have managed to grow their hair to midback and waist and sometimes tailbone while flatironing it or 'texturizing' (chemical relaxer but not enough to make it bone straight), but its a lot of work and everyone doesn't manage it. Longer hair than that, I think you can forget it.

I actually stopped going to that forum much because I personally not only hate how MY hair looks straightened but can't stand the long of straightened hair on anyone. Naturally straight looks fine to me on a lot of people, but in general, I prefer curly. I just avoid telling people what to do with their hair, because my preferences are my business,not theirs and I ignore their opinion about my hair because I gave in on that for years, straightened it and was MISERABLE. That's why I'd rather you did what you want rather than be miserable, too.

[Selene_Thorns]

I haven't ever really been to a salon, haha... But the henna was much cheaper for me because I can get it locally (indigo too). Cassia I will have to order online, which will cost 7x more for the same amount. Plus additional fees for shipping and customs.
And I'm not sure it's the best idea to order twice a month at these prices... Although I am considering it.

[Selene_Thorns]

Honestly, I know a TON of people who hate their curls. I used to think this was just black people with tighter curls who felt like this, but its not. I know a lot of white people who can't stand their curls either and as for thinking that curls look less attractive in general, I think this must be VERY common. If its not, why do so many people come up to me and tell me how much better I look when my hair is straightened? And all the curly girls I know that wear natural hair tell me they hear this a lot. It's not PC to say straight out that you hate curls, but if its true, its true. Maybe it's brainwashing, but what does it matter if the person is miserable?

I think you have got to the root of the real problem for you, which is that you are probably not going to find a way to have straight hair AND long hair at the same time, because straightening hair destroys it. Over at the LHCF, there are a surprising amount of ladies who have managed to grow their hair to midback and waist and sometimes tailbone while flatironing it or 'texturizing' (chemical relaxer but not enough to make it bone straight), but its a lot of work and everyone doesn't manage it. Longer hair than that, I think you can forget it.

I actually stopped going to that forum much because I personally not only hate how MY hair looks straightened but can't stand the long of straightened hair on anyone. Naturally straight looks fine to me on a lot of people, but in general, I prefer curly. I just avoid telling people what to do with their hair, because my preferences are my business,not theirs and I ignore their opinion about my hair because I gave in on that for years, straightened it and was MISERABLE. That's why I'd rather you did what you want rather than be miserable, too.

True, I am not the only one. I actually know a ton of naturally-straight-haired people who hate straight hair and wish for curls. I'm not sure if it's brainwashing, I think it's a natural attraction to what you don't have and CAN have. With the grass always being greener on the other side, I am not sure that there is brainwashing either way - perhaps just brainwashing to care about it altogether.

[lapushka]

I haven't ever really been to a salon, haha... But the henna was much cheaper for me because I can get it locally (indigo too). Cassia I will have to order online, which will cost 7x more for the same amount. Plus additional fees for shipping and customs.
And I'm not sure it's the best idea to order twice a month at these prices... Although I am considering it.

Oooh! That way; now I see. Thanks for explaining! :)

[Aingeal]

I wouldn't do it because I personally like my curls, but it's up to you. Straight hair with no major growth, or long curly hair.






I know I'm most likely to get comments of "go natural" and "embrace your curls".... So, a little confession that might piss people off, but I do wish to get off my heart...

I don't like curls. Not on me, and not on others either (since there are all those myths about only hating it because it's yours) - it really takes the beauty out of an attractive face to me (nothing against curlies or fans of curls; I just personally find it to make faces less appealing). It's not even about styling - though it's easier for curls to get a bad hair day - the most beautiful curls out there will still make a face less attractive, I guess that's just my natural taste and there's nothing to do about it. Wavy at best can look good, but anything 3a/b/c or beyond is too much.
The first time that my cousin blow dried my hair straight, I was in heaven. I really felt beautiful. It's as though it adds 25% to my beauty score in my eyes. It fixes everything that's wrong with my hair and makes it actually look like hair.
I don't straighten it very often (I only did it for 2 months now, about once a week or so but not every week), because there usually is no reason to work so much on looks (it takes me 45-60 minutes). But if I didn't have to work on it regularly, I'd prefer to have my hair constantly straight. I don't actually feel any compelling need to be "beautiful", I can go natural. But "embracing my curls" would pretty much mean I give up on considering myself beautiful, not finding beauty in what I have. Which I can do, but then why grow hair in the first place? Aren't most of us growing hair for beauty (it doesn't really have too many other uses, does it)?
[/SIZE]

Um....wow. I know we all have our own opinions, but I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's hard seeing what someone really means over the net, and you basically just told me that I'm ugly because my curls distract from my beauty....I'm glad you are honest with yourself, but that's like me saying I hate all blonde hair and blonde hair makes distracts from a persons beauty. It's enough to say I don't like curly hair. I'm not sure everything else was necessary. Jmo.

[lapushka]

I know I'm most likely to get comments of "go natural" and "embrace your curls".... So, a little confession that might piss people off, but I do wish to get off my heart...

I don't like curls. Not on me, and not on others either (since there are all those myths about only hating it because it's yours) - it really takes the beauty out of an attractive face to me (nothing against curlies or fans of curls; I just personally find it to make faces less appealing). It's not even about styling - though it's easier for curls to get a bad hair day - the most beautiful curls out there will still make a face less attractive, I guess that's just my natural taste and there's nothing to do about it. Wavy at best can look good, but anything 3a/b/c or beyond is too much.
The first time that my cousin blow dried my hair straight, I was in heaven. I really felt beautiful. It's as though it adds 25% to my beauty score in my eyes. It fixes everything that's wrong with my hair and makes it actually look like hair.
I don't straighten it very often (I only did it for 2 months now, about once a week or so but not every week), because there usually is no reason to work so much on looks (it takes me 45-60 minutes). But if I didn't have to work on it regularly, I'd prefer to have my hair constantly straight. I don't actually feel any compelling need to be "beautiful", I can go natural. But "embracing my curls" would pretty much mean I give up on considering myself beautiful, not finding beauty in what I have. Which I can do, but then why grow hair in the first place? Aren't most of us growing hair for beauty (it doesn't really have too many other uses, does it)?
[/SIZE]

Let me tell you something. I used to hate my texture, and did all sorts of things to it to get it either straight, or more curly. In my time we didn't have straighteners yet (this was the eighties in Europe), and so I used a blowdryer on it - all the time. Rain? Blow dry. Moisture in the air? Blow dry. It was insane. At my most desperate I permed it. Because more curly meant more manageable. It takes time to accept your own texture. I was in my thirties when I came to the realization that I liked my wavy hair because there was such a thing as the curly girl method that guided me along in caring for it properly. I now *love* my hair. I wouldn't go straighter, and I wouldn't go more curly anymore. My last perm was a few years ago, though. And it is said you can't get your hair past a certain length with that either, it's a chemical process as well, perhaps not as damaging as a straightening perm, but still... It grew past hip with that perm in.

In the end it's your choice. You're the one that has to live with your hair. Do something right to it, it flourishes. Ruin it, well too damn bad, but in the end it was your own damn fault.

[Selene_Thorns]

Um....wow. I know we all have our own opinions, but I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's hard seeing what someone really means over the net, and you basically just told me that I'm ugly because my curls distract from my beauty....I'm glad you are honest with yourself, but that's like me saying I hate all blonde hair and blonde hair makes distracts from a persons beauty. It's enough to say I don't like curly hair. I'm not sure everything else was necessary. Jmo.

I apologize is it's offending, I suppose I knew it might. But beauty is never a universal concept, as I said; everyone has their rules. For instance, if you had really severe acne, many people would think that makes you look uglier - while I would actually think you are as beautiful as with a clear face. Or if you had A cup or DD cup, as opposing to average B-C. Or if you didn't wear makeup, or if you didn't have full high school education. Every person has their crucial points - can you tell me that you think all humans are beautiful? if so, isn't 'beautiful' a word devoid of meaning? everyone breathes air, but that is not a compliment. 'Beautiful' is only a compliment to those who can clearly see ugliness in others. Think about that. I don't mean to bash, but it is rather unrealistic to think that people don't just by anything AT ALL. This is my **** up, I like straight hair :( I can't do anything with that, I think this since I was toddler. I can practically say I was born with this sort of viewpoint.

One more thing.... I did not say you are ugly because curls distract from beauty - 'ugly' usually refers to a deformity, and I definitely do not see curls this way. But it neutralizes my view on people; it doesn't draw negative attention (which is basically what "ugly" does), it just makes you a "normal person" or "random passerby", etc., instead of how I may have been thinking that you are a pretty lady. You DO admit that there are some people who are not ugly and not beautiful out there, right? this is not to say a thing about personality, or who is "date-able" or not. Just that some people are neither physically, at first impressing, attractive not unattractive. And to me, curls can make the difference. Which isn't that bad, it's much easier to straighten hair than to get rid of harsh acne - so I don't think that mine is the worst ****** out there. We all judge people physically (it is idiotic to say that we don't). We just have different measures.

If you still feel bad, I can tell you my bf is curlier than me, and to my measures has probably one of the worst cases of bad hair I have ever seen, being also very dry and textureless. Didn't bother me to be with him over a year. Some things are just certain attributes to you, but do not really mean that a person is worthless, ugly, or generally unappealing. "Neutral", by standard, is usually what we attribute to the highest % of people out there - most of us do not see, say, 90% of humanity attractive, 9% neutral, and 1% ugly.

[jeanniet]

I think you're entitled to your opinion. I personally find artificially straightened hair extremely unattractive--it looks limp and lifeless to me--and would much rather see people with their natural texture, whatever it may be. I love naturally straight hair, though. But everyone has their preferences.

Yes, straightening is damaging. We all have to make choices, however, and your choice may be to have straight hair that has to be shorter than you like.

[chen bao jun]

I guess I have had people tell me, not that I'm ugly, but how much better I would look with straight hair so much that it doesn't even register, certainly doesn't offend. I take 'better' to actually mean 'more glamorous according to advertising and tv standards' and so what? It's just an opinion, I don't have to do it. I personally don't like tv and advertising standards and am not interested in being glamorous, I love 'natural beauty'. And so does the husband, whose opinion is all that matters to me.

Actually its interesting, it tends to be women that think straighter is better. One of the actually annoying things about very curly hair is how many men think they are complimenting you by saying how 'sexy' it is and how you look like you just got out of bed and are ready to go back there and a bunch of other things that I as a married woman don't especially want to hear. It seems like extreme thinness. It's mostly women who enforce this, while men keep chasing after, maybe not actually fat, but curves.

Back on topic, what annoys me personally is when people don't say what they actually mean. If I could count the times that a curly girl has told me that while she really really WANTS to wear her hair curly, it is just so 'unmanageable' I'd be a rich women. If you love your curls, you will learn how to manage them, there's no unmanageable hair in this world, only hair protesting about being forced to be what it is not by nature. If you don't want to wear your hair curly, don't, I don't care! My hair is not a statement on what anybody else should do (this is not aimed at the OP, obviously).

[Sterlyn]

Personally I love curly hair. I think hair that is healthy and shiny is the gold standard when it comes to hair, whether curly, straight or in between. For myself I could not have that with permanent color and hot tools, my hair was like straw. The choice for me was whether to accept my hair as it was and deal with it or conform to the prevailing opinion held by many others of what would look best on me. For looks I wanted to keep coloring, because that was the way I saw myself as most attractive. I stopped coloring for several reasons but high on the list was my hair's health and to allow my hair to grow to the lengths I was hoping to achieve, I could not have it both ways. As others have said, that's probably what it will come down to for you as well or maybe your hair will tolerate it just fine, not sure there is a way to know for sure ahead of time. After all my mental gymnastics and stressing about color/not color I came to really prefer my natural color, but in the beginning not so much. Time really can change our opinion of what we think we need in a certain situation and how we perceive ourselves.

That being said I am not just my hair, I am a whole person and my perception of myself is much more than my hair color, texture or length. Nor am I giving a rat's ass about worrying about adding 25% to someone else's opinion of my "beauty score". I'm not sure that last paragraph of your original post was really necessary. People are entitled to opinions, but I try and use tact when expressing mine in a way to be sensitive to other peoples feelings. Stating that someone having curly hair makes them less attractive in your eyes, I think falls in the category of expressing an opinion in an insensitive way.

[Celestynn]

Oh...Kay..This thread jumped to a lot of different topics altogether. :)
I cannot do much except speak from my own experience.

I never cared much for hair quality, so whatever I did to my hair never bothered me. I did, and still do care about it color,
Which is why I dyed it a dozen times over, bleached it again and again and again, and then I tried to dye it black and didn't like it, and bleached it again and dyed it again, and again.
It's been several years since I've dyed it last though, beacause I want to go all natural to dye my hair white with as least damage as I can do to to my hair which passed through hell because of me.

But enough about that, around 4 years ago I had this crazy idea that I wanted my hair to look all shiny and glossy instantly, and I saw all these ads about the Brazillian and Japanese treatments. The Japanese known as the better less damaging treatment, but my hair was dyed so I couldn't do that
So I went ahead and did the Brzailian treatment.
My hair felt like a water nymph's hair for a couple of days, and that's it. Poof.
Hair went right back to how it used to look. (As for the damage my hair processed, it probably suffered more but again, I didn't care)
So I felt like it was all a fraud, waste of money, and lasted only a couple of days.
A month later I heard a lady I know from the neighbourhood saw my hair and went and got herself the same brazillian treatment from the same hairdresser.
She went bald. Lost all her hair.
Then I realized how thankful I should have been to have actually kept my length despite all the crap my hair went through.

The funny thing is now that I do take much better care of my hair and I don't dye it or play with it I'm experiencing the most major hairloss that I ever experienced. So go figure..

I heard a lot of good tales about those treatments too, people who use it repeatedly and say their hair condition even improved.

Bottom line is hair is kind of individual, what doesn't work for one person might work for you, or the opposite.
The only thing you can do, if you want, is try..
But if you do decide to try, check a hundred times for reccommendations about the hairdresser and the product they use.

[Cania]

We all judge people physically (it is idiotic to say that we don't). We just have different measures.

I don't think it's "idiotic" to say some people don't judge others on their looks. Grand, sweeping statements always have exceptions. I honestly do not feel the need to judge people based on their appearance, and if other people don't believe that then it makes no difference to me :P

I guess the issue with your comments about curly hair is this - I know that not everyone finds me attractive, that's fine (and good, because being hit on constantly would be a pain! You could never go anywhere!) but I would be upset if someone in the street came up to me and said "I don't find you attractive". It would just bother me because it seems like a mean thing to say, and completely unnecessary. If you don't like the way I look, what is gained by telling me, other than trying to make me feel bad? I think the same is true here - you do not like curls on yourself, but what have you gained by telling an audience full of curlies that their hair is not to your preference? I don't think you were doing it out of spite at all, it just seems strange to me.


Anyway, back to your hair! I think, sadly, you will probably need to make a choice. You can either have long hair, or straight hair if you go for a keratin treatment, and you do risk damaging your hair to the point where it has to be cut off. Equally, you might keep medium length hair, never have any problems and be completely in love with it. Could you not maybe keep it up in nice, slick up-dos that create the illusion of straighter hair and just straighten it on special occasions? I straighten mine from time to time with no trouble at all. How long do you stretch your washes? If you wash once a week, you could go straight for one of those weeks out of the month, maybe..

I notice you still have a lot of length left to grow before your goal, is it possible that the weight will pull your hair into looser waves? I found my waves became much more relaxed around hip.