Hair's changing needs - advice?

[Applegirl84]

This is so strange, because when I joined LHC in Sept I was trying to figure out how to air dry without frizz and to have shinier hair. Well I have totally managed that, but now I'm finding my hair has too much slip and now I'm looking for more volume. I would love some advice on how to fine tune my routine. I don't want to lose all of the shine and slip that my hair has since joining, but I'm willing to trade a little bit of it for more volume

Overnight oiling has made my hair feel so soft and strong, but could it be limiting my hair's volume? I Co wash it out the next day and then shampoo. If I wash out the oil completely could it still be a problem?

I also was doing DC twice a week - should I stop now that my hair seems sufficiently moisturized?

I've already given up cones for more volume and I alternate between SLS and non SLS shampoos (the SLS gives me for more volume).

I never like leave-ins or oil because it weighs my hair down, but now I'm experimenting without any conditioner at all. I still use my mild citric acid rinse though and am shocked that I still have plenty of slip and shine without conditioner. Could leaving out conditioner damage/dry out my hair? Should I alternate between conditioner/no conditioner washes. What about using conditioner before shampooing? Any point to that?

I'm currently shampooing every other day, but was thinking that skipping conditioner and leave-ins might allow me to stretch further.

[biogirl87]

Applegirl84, I have read on Hubpages how fine hair actually tends to have more volume when washed with a sulfate shampoo. The link to that article is here (http://hubpages.com/hub/Volumize-fine-flat-hair). Since my hair is not as thick as it used to be (I may still have the same number of strands but they are fine now whereas they may have been medium before), so I tend to look for ways that help add volume to my hair and that do not involve using products. Ultimately, I think with long hair and volume, you kind of need choose between having volume in your hair and wanting long hair.

I can go without using conditioner on my hair now, but it is shorter than yours, so at your length you may need to use conditioner if you want to grow your hair to waist length. I think oiling overnight and doing a DC treatment twice a week might be overdoing it but also may be contributing to you having to wash your hair more often. I found that I could stretch my washes from having to wash my hair every three days (when I was using conditioner after shampoo) to washing my hair every four days when I stopped using conditioner. I now add a tiny bit of mineral oil to my hair to help with detangling.

I think it is perfectly fine to use a citric acid rinse if it enough to help with detangling for you. I remember on a recent thread I started on the topic of whether or not to use conditioner, Libbylou was able to grow her hair to an inch above waist length using only mineral oil (no conditioner) to help with detangling and Madora currently uses only mineral oil on damp hair to help with detangling. I am starting to think that those of us who have fine-textured, low to medium porosity hair do not need to use conditioner since conditioner will just weigh our hair down or make it greasy (I remember my hair was starting to become smelly and a greaseball by the end of day 3 after washing my hair when I used conditioner after shampooing my hair).

[Mayflower]

I would tone down the overnight oilings and deep conditionings to once every two weeks, since your hair sounds plenty moisturized. You could alternate between using conditioner and not using it -it shouldn't damage your hair unless it suddenly becomes very dry because of it, or if it tangles and you have a hard time detangling it.

I have very healthy hip length hair but still gets loads of volume by letting it air dry (making sure the roots are dry), and when it's just slightly damp, bun it. I do a very messy bun so it comes out huge and wavy, but you can make it as neat as you want, twist it for curls etc. Just make sure the bun is right on top of your head so it can further dry upside down. Volume guaranteed. :)

[Applegirl84]

Thanks ... some good ideas :)

[lapushka]

Try leaving out the oil for a wash (or two), then reassess your routine. Maybe try intermittently oiling, on and off. See what that does, while leaving the DT in place. Then adjust when it's not enough and substitute the DT with regular conditioner. All this to try and figure out how to gain more volume.

Over time a lot of oil (without a break) can make the hair limp looking.

[meteor]

I absolutely agree with advice you were given here.

No need to oil and deep condition so often, and when you do, go for protein-, humectant-rich products instead of cony, oily ones and see what it does for your volume.

I'd also recommend cassia treatments for volume. Protein treatments have somewhat similar effect, too.

When drying your hair, try to do everything upside down - combing, putting leave-ins (if any), scrunching (if any). Put hair in a very high bun when drying, and you'll see some volume / root lift around your face.

[Anje]

I'm thinking that it sounds like you're getting a little over-conditioned or perhaps over-moisturized. (Trouble is, over-moisturized hair and hair in a dry wintery environment can both get limp and lose volume, so it's possible this could just be winter.)

Clarifying is often a good place to start, if you haven't done it for a while. Another thing I'd suggest trying is a protein treatment before one of your usual deep treatments -- they tend to give hair added strength and volume, but can lead to some roughness and dryness in some people, so moisturizing afterward and doing them only occasionally are wise till you know how your hair reacts.

[Applegirl84]

Thank you! I will definitely cut back on the oiling and DCs. I already use cassia, but protein is a great idea too. I think I was doing so much oiling and DCs, because I worried that by not using any leave-ins or oils after washing (and sometimes no conditioner either) that I was leaving my fine hair vulnerable. But maybe I'm worrying too much (LHC is awesome, but it does incease hair damage anxiety lol). I mean I blowdried for years and never did any DCs before and while I like my hair better now, it wasn't full of split ends or anything. In fact I have to look hard to find one.

[Firefox7275]

Ideally choose your products and ingredients based on your hair properties (fineness, porosity, elasticity) bearing in mind these can change with time and different care, also consider dew points/ humidity.

Overnight oiling with a penetrating oil is a useful technique for higher porosity hair, but like anything it can be overdone. It does not moisturise (add or increase water) it does the reverse - reduces the amount of water hair can hold which potentially reduces hygral fatigue.

Fine hair tends to do well with hydrolysed protein, can be a treatment or an ingredient in a wash out or leave in conditioner. It can increase strength, shine, volume/ body, patch repair damage, aid hair in holding the right amount of water as it is a weak humectant. Again protein can be overused so start conservatively and work up. Many can use more protein in summer than winter.

IMO do not cut out regular conditioner if you are using sulphate shampoos as these are damaging. Extra volume is often by changing the electrical charge on hair and/ or encouraging the cuticle to raise neither of which are good for hair health.

[Applegirl84]

What about shampoo bars? I've heard people say they get more volume with them.

[noludoru]

No advice, but I just wanted to say that I LOVE your hair. It's the perfect color and texture!

[Anje]

My DH liked shampoo bars (he's gotten out of that habit, not sure why) for the extra volume, so it's worth considering. The major thing with the ones that are soap-based is that they can react with hardness ions in your water to make soap scum form on your hair. If this happens, a dilute acid (vinegar, citric acid, lemon juice, etc) will be necessary to get it to rinse completely, so have one ready for your first try.

[Applegirl84]

Fortunately I have soft water and I already like citric acid rinses

[ErinLeigh]

A good cone free volumizing shampoo followed by conditioner from the neck down maybe could be a compromise to the issue?

OR if you want to skip shower conditioners altogether maybe get one of the Aubrey Organics conditioning detangler sprays instead ? The are very light and don't seem to weigh hair down. (They have a pretty strong scent though. At least the primrose one does)
You can also make a home made spray with a tad of leave in, water, drop of oil and a little aloe to spray on the lower parts of hair. This way you aren't getting the heavy conditioner weight but still getting some detangling and softness.
If you are skipping conditioner in shower maybe also just do pre poo oiling of ends and some length before SLS shampoo instead of deep all over oilings? If hair starts to get dry from lack of conditioner you could always reassess.

Also, maybe move the deep conditioning to a monthly only? You could do a protein spray prior to deep conditioning to help with that over moisturized flat feeling. Perhaps redkin extreme anti snap spray before the deep condition or Giovanni Vitapro Fusion leave in the night before then do the deep condition? Vitapro is a nice light organic mix with some protein without being too hard on the hair. Deep conditioning makes my fine hair very flat so I understand the lack of volume issue. I am playing around with options myself.

I prefer SLS for volume as well so it is always my rotation. For non SLS with volume I like Garnier Pure Clean ok and sometimes Shea Moisture Thickening Shampoo. (that one is pretty moisturizing however)
I have a few others I like but too lazy to go into bathroom to look, but will edit later.

Oh, for a natural shampoo and conditioner I get decent volume with Fundamental Earth Shampoo and Conditioner.
I use that when trying to give my hair a break from chemicals and I find I am using it more and more on non SLS wash days to skip flat hair. You can get sample size on Amazon for under $3. The conditioner is light to me and doesn't weigh hair down either.

Conditioner Ingredients: Purified Water, *Aloe Vera Gel, Vegetable Glycerin, Olive Oil, Lavender Oil, *Hops Extract (Humulus lupulus), Balm Mint Extract, Panthenol (Vitamin B5), Honey, * Moroccan Argan Oil, Vitamin E (Tocopherol), Olive Leaf Extract, *Chamomile Extract, *Comfrey Root Extract, Lemon Grass Oil, *Grape Seed Extract, d-Biotin-

[biogirl87]

A good cone free volumizing shampoo followed by conditioner from the neck down maybe could be a compromise to the issue?

OR if you want to skip shower conditioners altogether maybe get one of the Aubrey Organics conditioning detangler sprays instead ? The are very light and don't seem to weigh hair down. (They have a pretty strong scent though. At least the primrose one does)
You can also make a home made spray with a tad of leave in, water, drop of oil and a little aloe to spray on the lower parts of hair. This way you aren't getting the heavy conditioner weight but still getting some detangling and softness.
If you are skipping conditioner in shower maybe also just do pre poo oiling of ends and some length before SLS shampoo instead of deep all over oilings? If hair starts to get dry from lack of conditioner you could always reassess.

Also, maybe move the deep conditioning to a monthly only? You could do a protein spray prior to deep conditioning to help with that over moisturized flat feeling. Perhaps redkin extreme anti snap spray before the deep condition or Giovanni Vitapro Fusion leave in the night before then do the deep condition? Vitapro is a nice light organic mix with some protein without being too hard on the hair. Deep conditioning makes my fine hair very flat so I understand the lack of volume issue. I am playing around with options myself.

I prefer SLS for volume as well so it is always my rotation. For non SLS with volume I like Garnier Pure Clean ok and sometimes Shea Moisture Thickening Shampoo. (that one is pretty moisturizing however)
I have a few others I like but too lazy to go into bathroom to look, but will edit later.

Oh, for a natural shampoo and conditioner I get decent volume with Fundamental Earth Shampoo and Conditioner.
I use that when trying to give my hair a break from chemicals and I find I am using it more and more on non SLS wash days to skip flat hair. You can get sample size on Amazon for under $3. The conditioner is light to me and doesn't weigh hair down either.

Conditioner Ingredients: Purified Water, *Aloe Vera Gel, Vegetable Glycerin, Olive Oil, Lavender Oil, *Hops Extract (Humulus lupulus), Balm Mint Extract, Panthenol (Vitamin B5), Honey, * Moroccan Argan Oil, Vitamin E (Tocopherol), Olive Leaf Extract, *Chamomile Extract, *Comfrey Root Extract, Lemon Grass Oil, *Grape Seed Extract, d-Biotin-Erin, I am pretty sure that Garnier Fructis Pure Clean shampoo has sulfates in it. Still, I think for those of us who have fine hair and love volume or are looking for ways to get their hair to have more volume in it, sulfates and minimal conditioning (unless you have high porosity or chemically damaged hair) are your friends. At least I think they are for me.

[Applegirl84]

I've been experiencing with aloe and I'm not sure it's a good match with my hair.

I do have some gentle SLS free shampoos and I'm trying to use those most of the time (Body Shop Rainforest Moisture and Essents Love) and save the SLS for when I need and extra clean. I've been skipping condioner but doing very lightly oiling overnight when I plan to wear my hair up or wash the next day. I'm happy with it so far, I just hope it won't dry out my hair long term. But I guess I can just do a DT if I get to that point.

I ordered a few CV shampoo bar samples. It's supposedly gentle and adds volume, so I'm give it a try. I also like that many people who use them don't use conditioner.

[biogirl87]

Applegirl84, make sure that you use apple cider vinegar or citric acid rinse when you try the CV bars to bring the pH of your scalp back down. Shampoo bars tend to be quite alkaline.

[Applegirl84]

Thank you :)