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moniquerenaud
December 21st, 2013, 01:00 PM
Lately I can't figure out what to do with my hair to make it nice and healthy looking. I gave up sulfates shampoos a long time ago, but just recently started using a cone free conditioner and cut out my beloved morraccan oil because of the cones in it. Is there like a transisition period with cutting out cones or something? My ends are awful awful dry and the rest of my hair just looks dull and not shiny smooth anymore. Yes I tried clarifying (maybe the shampoo I bought for clarifying sucked?).i don't know what to do I just want my nice hair back

cooklaezo13
December 21st, 2013, 01:12 PM
Maybe your hair does better with cones. Maybe you need to try a moisturizing treatment like SMT. Maybe you need to start using oil to seal the moisture into your hair, now that you are not using cones. Just some suggestions.

moniquerenaud
December 21st, 2013, 01:35 PM
I've been thinking of doing an SMT I just can't seem to find 100% aloe

meteor
December 21st, 2013, 01:46 PM
Well, if you cut out cones, you need to introduce something else to help condition your ends. Have you tried pre-poo oilings with a penetrating oil, like coconut?

As for not having 100% aloe, why not do a modified SMT that many of us had success with: conditioner + honey + oil, and/or something acidic like vinegar, yogurt?

If you deep condition your ends, you should start seeing results pretty quickly.
To select your conditioner wisely, check out this article on proven penetrating conditioning ingredients: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html

TrapperCreekD
December 21st, 2013, 02:09 PM
You might try adding a little baking soda to your shampoo to clarify (and a vinegar rinse). I normally shampoo with sulfates so I use baking soda when my hair feels like it needs some extra oomph to get rid of build up. Baking soda can be quite drying so be sure to condition twice or do a SMT afterwards.

stachelbeere
December 21st, 2013, 02:14 PM
did you clarify your ends after giving up the moroccan oil...? maybe there is still some coney buildup?

spidermom
December 21st, 2013, 02:34 PM
Most if not all of the aloe vera on the market will have some stabilizers in the formula. Fruit of the Earth is a popular brand that gives good results.

Marika
December 22nd, 2013, 02:25 AM
Your hair type seems to be quite similar to mine... I've tried a 1000 times to go cone free (I thought I had to) but I've come to accept it just doesn't work. Hope you find a solution but there's nothing wrong going back to cones if your hair needs them!:heart:

sarahthegemini
December 22nd, 2013, 03:58 AM
When I first gave up cones my ends were like straw. I just stuck with my wash method (at the time it was cwc) and I think I used a little oil and after a few weeks my hair felt marvellous.

Firefox7275
December 22nd, 2013, 06:13 AM
I was shocked when I saw the true condition of my hair without silicones - at one time that is all I was using (spray detangler, no creamy conditioner). Took a while to grow out the hair I had damaged through dye, rough handling and with sulphate shampoo.

Chelate and clarify, then use oils and/ or leave in conditioners that contain ingredients that replicate the properties of silicones/ patch repair damage. Ingredients like the behentrimoniums and natural oils for slip, hydrolysed protein, ceramides, 18-MEA, panthenol for patch repairing and shine. As many products as possible at pH ~ 4.5 for shine and general gentleness.

YamaMaya
December 22nd, 2013, 08:50 AM
Cones give the impression of healthy hair, but do little more than add some slip. Definitely clarify if you haven't already to get rid of any remaining cones, then make oils your new best friend :). I've been using a combo of olive and coconut myself.

moniquerenaud
December 22nd, 2013, 12:51 PM
Ok I have some questions-what exactly is chelating?? Also where could I find jojoba oil? I hear that's a good light oil as a leave in. Or avacado oil, no clue where to find that either. I live in canada by the way

biogirl87
December 22nd, 2013, 01:59 PM
Monique, as far as I know, jojoba oil is a sealing oil, so it may not work well as a leave-in (if you leave-ins are supposed to add conditioning to your hair). If I remember correctly avocado oil is like coconut oil, in that it is able to penetrate the hair shaft. I think if you want to use as leave-ins, two light oils that you could start with are sweet almond oil and apricot kernel oil. Both of these oils can be found at a health food store of a coop store, if you have coop stores in Canada.

alexis917
December 22nd, 2013, 10:21 PM
Silicones leave a layer on your hair that at first, adds shine. This coating also makes damage less prominent and will smooth frizz. This might just be your "real" hair.
That said, I was cone-free for about a year and loved it, but recently went back to cones and am now using Pantene's Aqua Light. I honestly love it.
My hair doesn't look much different, but now the shine goes all the way to the ends instead of gradually tapering out. Some people like cones, some don't! You don't "have" to be cone free, so don't get too worried!

Anje
December 22nd, 2013, 10:27 PM
Are you using a sulfate shampoo for clarifying? It might be worth it, even if you're generally avoiding them (so long as you're not allergic or something).

Firefox7275
December 24th, 2013, 06:20 PM
Ok I have some questions-what exactly is chelating?? Also where could I find jojoba oil? I hear that's a good light oil as a leave in. Or avacado oil, no clue where to find that either. I live in canada by the way

Chelating is removing mineral build up from tap water. You would use a chelating shampoo/ sachet product.

biogirl87
December 25th, 2013, 01:06 AM
Chelating is removing mineral build up from tap water. You would use a chelating shampoo/ sachet product.Firefox (Monique, this may help you also), you do not need a special chelating shampoo to remove mineral build up. EDTA also chelates and it is found in most, if not all, regular suflate shampoos almost all cheap conditioners (Suave, VO5, Herbal Essences are brands that have EDTA as one of the ingredients in their shampoos and conditioners that I know of for sure).

LauraLongLocks
December 25th, 2013, 12:28 PM
Whatever I can't find locally, I buy on Amazon and have it shipped. I'm a prime members, so shipping is free. That's where I got my aloe vera for my SMT, that's where I got my jojoba. I use jojoba on damp hair, to help seal in the moisture. I also use cones, lots of them, to keep my hair from being grabby. I love slippery hair, and freshly cut ends, and silicones help make my ends feel great, so I use them, in copious amounts, on my length.

Firefox7275
December 26th, 2013, 06:07 PM
Firefox (Monique, this may help you also), you do not need a special chelating shampoo to remove mineral build up. EDTA also chelates and it is found in most, if not all, regular suflate shampoos almost all cheap conditioners (Suave, VO5, Herbal Essences are brands that have EDTA as one of the ingredients in their shampoos and conditioners that I know of for sure).

Sorry but i don't agree. EDTA is multi functional like many ingredients and used at various percentages as a result. Being present on he ingredients list is not enough, you need sufficient concentration to chelate effectively plus generally need two or three chelating agents to remove different mineral deposits. Most chelants are acids, it is possible to DIY from vinegar, lemon juice, vitamin C (ascorbic acid) but you must get the concentration s right so research your recipe carefully.

lapushka
December 26th, 2013, 06:17 PM
Lately I can't figure out what to do with my hair to make it nice and healthy looking. I gave up sulfates shampoos a long time ago, but just recently started using a cone free conditioner and cut out my beloved morraccan oil because of the cones in it. Is there like a transisition period with cutting out cones or something? My ends are awful awful dry and the rest of my hair just looks dull and not shiny smooth anymore. Yes I tried clarifying (maybe the shampoo I bought for clarifying sucked?).i don't know what to do I just want my nice hair back

For getting out cones, make sure to cut out all your silicone products first, *then* wash with a sulfate shampoo one last time before switching to non-sulfate shampoo.

It could also mean that your hair really *loves* cones. It's about what the hair wants, not about what you want for it. :)

meteor
December 27th, 2013, 01:43 PM
Sorry but i don't agree. EDTA is multi functional like many ingredients and used at various percentages as a result. Being present on he ingredients list is not enough, you need sufficient concentration to chelate effectively plus generally need two or three chelating agents to remove different mineral deposits. Most chelants are acids, it is possible to DIY from vinegar, lemon juice, vitamin C (ascorbic acid) but you must get the concentration s right so research your recipe carefully.

Yes, you don't need to buy special chelating shampoos, as can DIY chelate with club soda (it chelates but apparently doesn't clarify) and "miracle water" (with ascorbic acid):
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=78125
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74465

I do recommend buying a professional chelating and clarifying shampoo if you regularly swim, for example.

moniquerenaud
December 28th, 2013, 12:14 AM
Yes, you don't need to buy special chelating shampoos, as can DIY chelate with club soda (it chelates but apparently doesn't clarify) and "miracle water" (with ascorbic acid):
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=78125
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74465

I do recommend buying a professional chelating and clarifying shampoo if you regularly swim, for example.

Do you know of any good chelating and clarifying products you reccomend?

moniquerenaud
December 28th, 2013, 12:17 AM
For getting out cones, make sure to cut out all your silicone products first, *then* wash with a sulfate shampoo one last time before switching to non-sulfate shampoo.

It could also mean that your hair really *loves* cones. It's about what the hair wants, not about what you want for it. :)

I agree with the last part it's just so hard for me to to follow lol:rolleyes:
I'm sometimes considering even going back to sulfates and cones, because my hairs just been meh lately and I can't find a good routine. I think to myself, how do I know so many girls that definitely aren't on this site and use sulfates and cones yet have beautiful long hair-.- !

biogirl87
December 28th, 2013, 12:37 AM
I agree with the last part it's just so hard for me to to follow lol:rolleyes:
I'm sometimes considering even going back to sulfates and cones, because my hairs just been meh lately and I can't find a good routine. I think to myself, how do I know so many girls that definitely aren't on this site and use sulfates and cones yet have beautiful long hair-.- !Monique, if your hair does better with sulfates and cones, by all means use them. When I started using sulfate-free shampoos, I started getting flaking near the scalp and my scalp would start itching on day 3 or 4 after washing whereas when I used sulfate shampoos, I would not get flaking near the scalp until nearly the next wash day. Some people, even on here, have hair and scalp that prefer sulfates and cones.

lapushka
December 28th, 2013, 04:24 AM
Some people, even on here, have hair and scalp that prefer sulfates and cones.

I'm one of those people. What can you do, eh? I would love a milder shampoo and would love to be able to use a conefree conditioner. But I need the sulfates because I have S.Dermatitis and an oily scalp, so my scalp needs the harsher cleanse. As far as the conefree conditioner goes, that's a no-go as they are way more expensive (good ones that detangle at least) than a plain cone conditioner and my wallet won't stand for it.

Firefox7275
December 28th, 2013, 08:03 AM
I agree with the last part it's just so hard for me to to follow lol:rolleyes:
I'm sometimes considering even going back to sulfates and cones, because my hairs just been meh lately and I can't find a good routine. I think to myself, how do I know so many girls that definitely aren't on this site and use sulfates and cones yet have beautiful long hair-.- !

A lot of people just drop sulphates and silicones without considering what they are replacing them with. Sulphate free is a huge family with surfactants from the harsh (olefin sulfonates) to clarifying but not irritating (betaines) to super gentle (glucosides). Of course the overall formula and pH is highly relevant.

Silicones have specific properties (eg. detangling, shine) that you may wish to replicate with other ingredients. There is a heavy emphasis on oiling on LHC but much less on other ingredients that protect, patch repair, strengthen, aid shine. Older hair by its very nature is 'weathered' or damaged, so you may gain benefit from hydrolysed protein, ceramides, 18-MEA or panthenol.

If you still have issues detangling you may opt to return to silicones that resist building up such as the water soluble (PEG-) or amine ones (eg. amodimethicone). Cocoamidopropyl betaine will remove silicones and much other build up, you should not need sulphates.

ErinLeigh
December 28th, 2013, 08:29 AM
Do you know of any good chelating and clarifying products you reccomend?

Pureolgy Purify : SLS free and is clarifying and chelating.
gah..it has cones in it though! wtf grrr. I am so glad I just looked. That one is going in the give-away-pile.
I do not want cones added when I clarify. What were they thinking?

ravenheather
December 28th, 2013, 09:36 AM
I am also wondering if you use heat or have in the past or if your hair is chemically processed. If your hair has damage that cones were masking it could be showing up now.

moniquerenaud
December 28th, 2013, 10:48 AM
I am also wondering if you use heat or have in the past or if your hair is chemically processed. If your hair has damage that cones were masking it could be showing up now.

I think that could be part of it. I used to straighten and blow dry my hair very often but I gave heat up almost a year ago. I think another reason I have damage is because I get my hair highlighted-so maybe cones would be good to hide the damage?

Firefox7275
December 28th, 2013, 10:53 AM
I think that could be part of it. I used to straighten and blow dry my hair very often but I gave heat up almost a year ago. I think another reason I have damage is because I get my hair highlighted-so maybe cones would be good to hide the damage?

You could disguise or you could work on reducing porosity, increasing elasticity and patch repairing the surface with the proven ingredients mentioned before. Or indeed both.

meteor
December 28th, 2013, 11:37 AM
I think that could be part of it. I used to straighten and blow dry my hair very often but I gave heat up almost a year ago. I think another reason I have damage is because I get my hair highlighted-so maybe cones would be good to hide the damage?
Of course! :) Chemically processed hair with heat damage should not be treated the same way as virgin hair.
I have virgin hair that only likes to be washed gently, and then I have highlighted ends that are uber-dry, need lots of fatty acids, ceramides, proteins... to patch-repair the structure a bit.
Use products specifically for damaged, processed hair. Go heavy on conditioners and masques especially. Avoiding all cones on damaged hair is not the best idea.

As for chelating shampoos, I think you can check out these recommendations:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-55001.html
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-111192.html
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-111991.html
Pureology and Joico are solid options.
But I think it's better to buy samples only, as it's critical not to overdo it (unless you are a swimmer and/or use very hard water), as chelation is quite stripping and drying.