Very fine, tangly hair, need advice

[hopeforchange]

Hi, I'm new here, although I've been lurking on this board for probably 8 or 9 years now, on and off. I cut my hair into a pixie in summer of 2010 and have been growing it out since October of 2010. It's currently between APL and BSL although I do need a trim. Best I can tell, I'm a 1c, F, i/ii.

My hair is very fine and tangles easily. I've tried cone free shampoos and conditioners for extended periods of time before and they all make my hair feel terrible. Right now I'm using the Suave Naturals shampoo and conditioner and I like them, but I still struggle with a lot of tangles. Also, my hair is pretty frizzy when it dries naturally. I've tried Curly Girl before (that's when I used cone free products) and I can get decent curls during the winter, nothing during the summer and I just don't have the time it takes to coax my hair into curling. But I would like for it not to be so frizzy.

I would like to learn how to put my hair up so that it doesn't tangle so much. Right now, I ponytail it a lot, but I'm afraid I'm damaging it. I sometimes put it in a bun with claw clips, but I'd like to learn more ways to put it up. I can french braid ok but I don't like doing that b/c then I have to deal with the waves the next day and my hair is so fine that it quickly looks messy in a braid.

So advice on hair care and tips for putting my hair would be much appreciated!

[Almendra]

Welcome! I understand you, I don't like the braid waves neither. The cinnabun is the easiest bun to begin use your hair up. I suggest you get hair sticks to start with buns. At this length it can be difficult, but isn't impossible. The disc bun is also a very easy one to try with sticks or forks. A user named Kaelee have a nice tutorial with a beautiful alternative.
Also here is very popular a Youtuber called Torrin Paige (also a user in LHC) who has many tutorials for begginers in her channel :)

ETA:
Links:

Kaelee's disc bun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1YzsZ_s-U4)
Torrin Paige channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/torrinpaige)

[katiebeans]

Have you tried a regular three strand braid at the nape of your neck or the side? I too have fine hair that tangles easily, and sleeping in a braid is the only way I can manage to keep the tangles at bay. Unfortunately I can't recommend any updos because I haven't a clue about any :confused:

[breezefaerie]

Are you adverse to using cones?
That's the only thing saving my hair from tangles and knots. I wear it up 90% of the time but am still prone to fairy knots. Added a cone containing product has helped tremendously with that.

[Firefox7275]

Crossing to me stro you suggests you are in the 2s (wavy) not the 1s (straight), especially since you can get curls in winter. Wavies and curlies are not supposed to be tangle free, it is the nature of the beast.

Are you choosing products and ingredients based on your hair properties (porosity, elasticity, fine/ coarse)? Five hair tends to do well with hydrolysed protein but many of us need less in winter.

Few options: join the Facebook Wavy Hair Community, have a hair analysis from Goosefootprints on Etsy, use ingredients that replace the properties of silicones instead of just cutting them out, embrace silicones. I know that is not really what you asked but whilst you are fighting your hair you will likely struggle with styling/ up dos.

[MeowScat]

Do you have any spin pins? I started with them, and then moved onto hairsticks to hold my bun. I agree, the cinnabun would be a good place to start. Nice and simple.

Check out YouTube. Some of the tutorials are wonderful!!

[biogirl87]

Are you adverse to using cones?
That's the only thing saving my hair from tangles and knots. I wear it up 90% of the time but am still prone to fairy knots. Added a cone containing product has helped tremendously with that.Seconding the use of cones.

hopeforchange, when my hair was at your length, it also tangled quite a bit when I was cone-free. I know with fine hair updos are difficult alone (at BSL the only bun I could get to hold was a cinnamon bun if it was secured with six little claw clips) but cones may make your hair be tangle-free.

[hopeforchange]

I am currently using cones, I went back to them b/c my hair was so awful without them. I use Suave Naturals, the "clean" shampoo b/c I need that to keep my hair from getting oily, and the moisturizing conditioner. I wash every 3 days, occasionally every 4.

I will try the spin pins. Yesterday, I put my hair in a bun while it was wet and used one of those really big U shaped pins (kinda like sticks) and managed to get my hair up and it stayed up all day like that. So that was nice.

I will also check out the youtube videos, thank you!

[ejking2]

I think most, if not all, Suave Naturals shampoos and conditioners are cone-free. Do you perhaps mean Suave Professionals? That is most likely the source of the confusion. Either way, I think the shampoo is harsh and is probably causing the frizziness. Have you tried diluting it or going sulfate free? CO-washing may give you better results if your scalp can handle it. You don't have to be cone-free to do CO washing. Amine-functionalized silicones like amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone do not easily build up, and if you do get build-up, you can just clarify occasionally.

How do you detangle your hair? Be sure to go carefully and gently. Consider switching to a wide-toothed comb or a Tangle Teezer if you do not use one of these already.

You may want to try using a little bit of leave-in conditioner or oil to help with the tangles and frizz.

[lapushka]

My hair is very fine and tangles easily. I've tried cone free shampoos and conditioners for extended periods of time before and they all make my hair feel terrible. Right now I'm using the Suave Naturals shampoo and conditioner and I like them, but I still struggle with a lot of tangles. Also, my hair is pretty frizzy when it dries naturally. I've tried Curly Girl before (that's when I used cone free products) and I can get decent curls during the winter, nothing during the summer and I just don't have the time it takes to coax my hair into curling. But I would like for it not to be so frizzy.

Try getting off the cone-free routine, and see what that does for your hair. Cones are not evil, and if they can prevent your hair from tangling so much, the better!

[hopeforchange]

I think most, if not all, Suave Naturals shampoos and conditioners are cone-free. Do you perhaps mean Suave Professionals? That is most likely the source of the confusion. Either way, I think the shampoo is harsh and is probably causing the frizziness. Have you tried diluting it or going sulfate free? CO-washing may give you better results if your scalp can handle it. You don't have to be cone-free to do CO washing. Amine-functionalized silicones like amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone do not easily build up, and if you do get build-up, you can just clarify occasionally.

How do you detangle your hair? Be sure to go carefully and gently. Consider switching to a wide-toothed comb or a Tangle Teezer if you do not use one of these already.

You may want to try using a little bit of leave-in conditioner or oil to help with the tangles and frizz.

Oh yeah, it's Suave Professionals, sorry for the confusion. There's no way I could do CO-washing, my hair is too oily. I still have some of my sulfate free shampoos, I could try them with my regular conditioner. I just always thought that you needed the sulfates or the cones would build up in your hair.

I do use a wide tooth comb and I have a tangle teezer as well, although I usually use a different kind of detangling brush.

[biogirl87]

Oh yeah, it's Suave Professionals, sorry for the confusion. There's no way I could do CO-washing, my hair is too oily. I still have some of my sulfate free shampoos, I could try them with my regular conditioner. I just always thought that you needed the sulfates or the cones would build up in your hair.

I do use a wide tooth comb and I have a tangle teezer as well, although I usually use a different kind of detangling brush.hopeforchange, you do not need sulfates to remove cones. Cocoamidopropyl betaine can also remove cones.

[Lilelfen1]

Hopeforchange, I too have very fine, tangly hair. But I can tell you what works for me. Maybe it will work for you, too. First, I co-wash with VO5, lately it has been kiwi-lime, or vanilla-mint. I use an AMPLE amount, like two or three handfulls, scrub my scalp well, and leave on for the rest of my shower. sometimes when I rinse, ill detangle with my wide tooth comb. depends how tangly my hair is. if it real tangly, Ill wait for the next step. If my hair feels coated, I use a VO5 shampoo first, followed by the conditioner. (but honestly, very rarely need to do this.)Then I apply a small amount of Andalou Shine Conditioner, just til my hair feels moist and slippy. Sometimes, I will add a drop or two of oil, either almond, coconut mix, shea butter or avocado. Once in a blue moon, Ill use a protein treatment, but I must moisturize after. I hope this helps just a little. :)

[breezefaerie]

CO washing is great for oily hair.

[Hoydenish]

As biogirl87 pointed out you can probably have your cones and your sulfate free poo too. For example the SheaMoisture line seems to work great on cleansing my hair without provoking oil. I can wash every 2nd or 3rd day even. I am currently cone free and I think it has greatly increased the tangles and breakage. I've had a real setback in length lately and I am unable to tame the frizz! So back to cones I will go.

You might do a simple damp twist or bun with a ficcare or ketylos hairstick. That is my daily style when I'm trying to protect. For sleeping, a top knot is my only option as braids come undone with my slick hair. A silk pillowcase also helped a great deal with tangles.

[lapushka]

CO washing is great for oily hair.

Not on my oily hair it isn't. :)

[breezefaerie]

Not on my oily hair it isn't.

You are right - I shouldn't make blanket statements like that.

CO washing is great on some folk's oily hair - YMMV :)

[lapushka]

You are right - I shouldn't make blanket statements like that.

CO washing is great on some folk's oily hair - YMMV :)

Thanks for understanding, breezefaerie! :)

[hopeforchange]

I got this really cool pin from Clarie's by Conair, called the ultimate updo clip and I'm loving it. Mostly I've just used it to hold a regular bun, but I've also used it to hold a disc bun. I'm wearing my hair up a lot. I've discovered that I can go 5 days without washing when I put my hair up. I really like that and I don't have to deal with tangles when my hair is up.

I'm reluctant to change my shampoo when my goal right now is to stretch out how long I go between washes. I'm afraid if I change my shampoo it'll mess that up. But I might get brave enough to try it. I need to get a tiny trim too bc I have lots of split ends that are contributing to the tangles.

Thanks for all the links and suggestions!