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WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 01:10 PM
First off, I want to say sorry for posting so much! I'm normally such a lurker so I feel obnoxious about my posts. However, I am in need of some sound advice...

I've been wearing my hair up for almost a year while the bad haircut grew out. I really haven't paid attention to how it was down, only that it felt more full (or so I thought?). Just within December, I've decided it's an acceptable stage of length to wear it down (I had it reshaped and trimmed to undo the last bit of the bad cut), and, well, I have ugly hair. REALLY ugly hair. So I am in need of help with how to make my hair look prettier, fuller, shiny? I've included photos (terrible photos, sorry, not much time for proper ones so you get bad phone ones!), and below is what I've been doing lately as far as haircare routine.

-I wash every other day/each day. If I have a day off work, I skip the wash. If not, I washed every evening. I've just switched to washing in the morning, hoping my hair would look thicker and not so thin, but it's about the same...even stringier. I also am following advice and just shampooing the scalp and letting the suds run down the length.
-My hair used to be very curly before the major chop. Now it curls in spirals around the front, and wavy in the back. If I take a comb or brush to it, it turns into a frizzy yet stringy mess.
-I don't use any conditioner.
-I thought maybe my problem was my hair wasn't conditioned enough, so I did a coconut oil treatment. Not only did I lose a huge amount of hair (a sink-full?!), but my hair has been flat ever since. I know I washed all the oil out, but my hair is even uglier now.
-I've tried to do the volume thing where you let it dry 80%, then you blow dry it till it's dry, and the photos are from today when I did that. As you can see, my hair looks thin and stringy.

One of the photos shows me hanging my head to the side; this is my biggest embarrassment. When most women tilt their head, their hair doesn't look stringy like that. Mine looks so thin you can see through it? Does that make sense? The photo explains better.... ugh.

I really wanted to begin enjoying wearing my hair down, but I feel like I've tried every way of taking care of it, but it's getting worse. Any advice? (And again, sorry for posting so much!) I just want beautiful hair!

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/hair04_zpsf3cfc55c.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/hair04_zpsf3cfc55c.jpg.html)

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/hair05_zpsdd42feb2.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/hair05_zpsdd42feb2.jpg.html)

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/hair02_zpsca857ea1.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/hair02_zpsca857ea1.jpg.html)

Magalo
December 18th, 2013, 01:14 PM
Your hair is definetly stringy and it's not normal for freshly washed hair! Do you use any products? Even if you don't, it could be build-up (pollution?). It could also be mineral build-up from your water, does your shower has a filter?

Have you tried clarifying?

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 01:21 PM
Your hair is definetly stringy and it's not normal for freshly washed hair! Do you use any products? Even if you don't, it could be build-up (pollution?). It could also be mineral build-up from your water, does your shower has a filter?

Have you tried clarifying?


No products, I used to use some back when it was a bob so I could try different styles, but they were very gentle and natural. Then for a while I'd use a bit of gel to keep my fringe styled out of my face, but as of these last two months, no styling products! My shower does not have a filter, no....I'm not sure how the water is PH wise, but I know a guy who works with the water systems so I can ask. And as far as clarifying, a couple months ago that was all I washed with and was advised to not do that all the time, so now I'm using a diluted lemongrass shampoo for oily hair.



Edit: I remember last year before the chop, I would let my hair dry 80% and it would be very curly and while very fine, feeling thick... I'll try to find a photo. It definitely was not like this after a shower. :-(

Another edit: In case someone suspects the shampoo is doing this, I've tried three different kinds within the last two months and my hair has no change at all. I did a shampoo bar, a tea tree shampoo that was supposed to gently clarify, and now the lemongrass shampoo.

melusine963
December 18th, 2013, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't necessarily call that stringy. I think it looks more like your hair is trying to regain its former wurls. Have you ever tried using the curly girl method? I don't have any direct experience with it, but it could be what is needed to make your hair look fuller.

eshta
December 18th, 2013, 01:38 PM
I second the clarifying and maybe start using conditioner on the length (it's a great oil remover too). I can't really tell from the pics but the scalp area looks clean and less stringy, is it just the length that is stringy? How much oil did you use, it's very easy to over oil. And It doesn't look thin too me, just stringy.

bmcfarland
December 18th, 2013, 01:46 PM
I second the curly girl method - even having only slightly wavy hair, the curly method is great! Basically, it's using shampoo without sulfates (if you even use shampoo), using conditioner without silicone, rinsing in cool water, exposing your hair to as little heat styling as possible, and infrequent trims. I've noticed a huuuge increase in shine and slip in my hair since I stopped shampooing. Sometimes, having oily hair can be from shampooing too much, or using too harsh of a shampoo. :)

Salmonberry
December 18th, 2013, 01:46 PM
I would recommend clarifying with a strong/harsh clarifying shampoo. The Suave daily clarifying is a good one. If you're using gentle or natural shampoos, they may just not be cutting it. I'd also recommend scrubbing the shampoo all the way down the length. Rinse, then repeat. (Yes, I know, it sounds like a terribly harsh thing to do, but it's a one time deep clarifying treatment. You won't be doing this every day). Then condition/detangle with a light cone-free conditioner. Tresseme naturals moisturizing conditioner works well for me. My best guess is that natural products, oils and/or mineral deposits are weighing your hair down and the gentle shampoo just isn't cutting it. I have to do a deep clarifying wash like this every few months. Doing it every once in a while won't kill your hair.

Almendra
December 18th, 2013, 01:46 PM
I also think that you could need a clarify. I'm curious, why don't you use conditioner? Also, how do you feel your hair when you touch it? Is it dry or not? Have you determinate your porosity?
I don't think your hair is ugly :)

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 01:54 PM
Another terrible photo, but here's how curly my hair was before the bob.

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/curlyhair_zpse7dd9297.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/curlyhair_zpse7dd9297.jpg.html)

breezefaerie
December 18th, 2013, 01:54 PM
I agree - looks like your hair is trying to be curly again and just not making it.

A good clarifying followed by the curly-girl method might be just what you need!

Almendra
December 18th, 2013, 01:57 PM
I agree - looks like your hair is trying to be curly again and just not making it.

A good clarifying followed by the curly-girl method might be just what you need!

I second the curly girl method suggestion. Have you tried it?

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:00 PM
- I used a lot of oil 8( I slathered it on. I washed a lot and it wasn't greasy, just even more stringy and flat and dull. There is zero shine to my hair. Looks like I dusted chalk in it or something.

-I have not tried/heard about the Curly Girl method! Should I also purchase a shampoo and conditioner for curly hair? As of yet, I've only bought clarifying shampoo and shampoos for oily hair.

-Should I clarify with a strong shampoo even though for a while during late summer all I washed with was clarifying shampoos? Sorry, still new to the dos/don'ts!

-When I touch my hair it feels soft, but a weird soft (not soft like when I touch a friend's hair with shiny hair). Prior to the coconut oil, it felt dry and crunchy, but now it's this soft feeling. If I touch it near my scalp (which is a terrible habit; I can't seem to stop running my fingers through my scalp area?), it's dry and sensitive at the hair shafts.

-I haven't determined my porosity, is there a way to find this out? And I've never used conditioner because I was afraid it'd weigh my oily hair down even more, or make it oily quicker. I've always been afraid of conditioner, haha.

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:04 PM
Also, a side note, but I've ran across different websites saying henndigo ruins curl pattern. Is this true? As you can tell from my curly photo, I used to be blonde, and have done henndigo three times (and am slowly trying to undo it with a Color Remover here and there, but have not done anything for the last month).

bunnylake
December 18th, 2013, 02:10 PM
As everyone else says, get a good clarifying shampoo! Look for one that contains sulfates.

Try the Curly Girl method. It may be just what your hair needs. You could also try adding conditioner to your routine, that may help.
Do you need to wash it daily? I understand because I also need to wash mine at least every other day, but if you can wash a little less, that may help.
Maybe coconut oil is too heavy for your hair type, or maybe you used too much? It doesn't work well for everyone.

bunnylake
December 18th, 2013, 02:12 PM
Also, a side note, but I've ran across different websites saying henndigo ruins curl pattern. Is this true? As you can tell from my curly photo, I used to be blonde, and have done henndigo three times (and am slowly trying to undo it with a Color Remover here and there, but have not done anything for the last month).

Henna took the waves right out of my hair and made it stick straight. I'm pretty sure henna cannot be removed... not sure about indigo, though. :/

Salmonberry
December 18th, 2013, 02:12 PM
Also, a side note, but I've ran across different websites saying henndigo ruins curl pattern. Is this true? As you can tell from my curly photo, I used to be blonde, and have done henndigo three times (and am slowly trying to undo it with a Color Remover here and there, but have not done anything for the last month).

Yes, Henna can loosen curls. I've heard amla can help bring them back. It may be something worth looking into.

Even though you were washing with a "clarifying" shampoo every day it doesn't mean that your hair can't benefit from a very thorough clarifying treatment. Clarifying is just as much about the process as it is the product (Really any cone free sulfate shampoo could be considered clarifying). Try a different brand, and scrub thoroughly. Like I said, the Suave stuff is pretty good. I actually use it to remove oil stains from clothes. It's harsh and not for everyday use like the bottle claims. If you've just been washing your scalp and letting the suds run down the length, then that's not enough for it to really count as clarifying. Really wash down the whole the length when you clarify.

Almendra
December 18th, 2013, 02:18 PM
You have to use a special shampoo for clarify your hair. I really can't suggest you none because I'm from anpther country, but there's a lot of brands that have this type of shampoo. Just one wash with it (maybe two) should be enough. You will need a deep conditioner after it.
The curly girl method restrict you to use products with sulphates, silicones, waxes, mineral oils, etc. For sure there's a thread here for that. It's also a book.
Here you can figure out your porosity http://www.naturallycurly.com/texture-typing/hair-porosity

I think your hair needs both clarify and conditioner. Some people need protein in their hair and some people need water (moisturise), you could know what your hair need by trial and error and also with a strand test (there's lot of them)

bunnylake
December 18th, 2013, 02:19 PM
- I used a lot of oil 8( I slathered it on. I washed a lot and it wasn't greasy, just even more stringy and flat and dull. There is zero shine to my hair. Looks like I dusted chalk in it or something.

-I have not tried/heard about the Curly Girl method! Should I also purchase a shampoo and conditioner for curly hair? As of yet, I've only bought clarifying shampoo and shampoos for oily hair.

-Should I clarify with a strong shampoo even though for a while during late summer all I washed with was clarifying shampoos? Sorry, still new to the dos/don'ts!

-When I touch my hair it feels soft, but a weird soft (not soft like when I touch a friend's hair with shiny hair). Prior to the coconut oil, it felt dry and crunchy, but now it's this soft feeling. If I touch it near my scalp (which is a terrible habit; I can't seem to stop running my fingers through my scalp area?), it's dry and sensitive at the hair shafts.

-I haven't determined my porosity, is there a way to find this out? And I've never used conditioner because I was afraid it'd weigh my oily hair down even more, or make it oily quicker. I've always been afraid of conditioner, haha.

Sorry for all the replies in a row! That's what I get for not reading through the entire thread before posting, haha.

Clarifying shampoos shouldn't be used daily or even regularly at all. That could be what's making your scalp produce so much oil. If you strip the scalp and hair of it's natural oils so harshly all the time, your scalp will overcompensate by overproducing oil faster. Clarifying shampoo should be used only when you feel like you have build up, or once every month or two. I have an oily scalp and I only use clarifying shampoo once every two months or before I use henna.

The Curly Girl Method is conditioner-only. Basically you get a silicone-free conditioner and use that to massage your scalp and length of your hair, leave it in for the duration of your shower and then rinse it all out. Google it or find the conditioner-only thread here for more info on that. I tried it once even though I don't have curly hair, and it worked well for me. My scalp was actually less oily with the conditioner-only method.

Conditioner isn't scary! You just might need a light one for the ends, that's all. Also, try not to touch your hair so much. That can make it oilier faster.

If conditioner-only ends up not working out for you or you don't want to try it, look for shampoo and conditioners that are gentle and will add shine. Shikai Henna Gold is good, and Nature's Gate has a few products that are formulated for dull hair. I've also had success with Shea Moisture, Giovanni, and Acure.

TiaKitty
December 18th, 2013, 02:20 PM
I'm going to blame the henna for the loss of curl...

I agree with clarifying, but I don't think that will help the curl pattern.

Question, is that a wool sweater you're wearing in those photos? :rollin: I cannot stand to let a horrible joke get by me.

I like it better when you post and don't lurk as much. And that's not a joke.

Oh, yeah, and lots of people report massive shedding, or at least more than normal, if they put conditioner/oil on their scalps. Did you put the oil on your scalp? Perhaps that shouldn't be done next time you oil...

Caldonia Sun
December 18th, 2013, 02:25 PM
Other things to consider: are you taking any medications that might affect your hair? Are you getting good nutrition? You don't have to answer here, just food for thought.

Almendra
December 18th, 2013, 02:30 PM
Also, try the second test for the porosity stuff, the first one isn't so reliable

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:33 PM
-Okay so I think I will do a very good clarifying treatment since I did rub the coconut oil all over my scalp... I was kind of (okay, really) dumb and didn't read instructions. I just put two & two together and slathered it on and left it for 30 minutes. I thought it would help the dryness, but I think I'd rather have the dry hair back. 8(

-I actually think I have some alma, I will check! I really miss the curls/waves, I am realizing I think the henna/indigo weighed my hair down to the straight look in the photos. My hair, right out of the shower, has curl, but it dies down while it dries. And if I go to bed with it wet, it's stick straight in the morning.

-I'm trying not to wash it daily, I always have since my scalp is so oily, but if I can get this d*** hair under control, I would love to switch to every other day or two days. One can dream. *laugh*

-Okay I am kind of excited for this curly girl method. It's weird, because as a child/teen I had stick straight hair. Then I lost all my hair, and when it grew back as a young adult, it was curly. So in my mind I have not realized I am a curly girl yet, but I can say I loved the sudden curls when my hair grew back!

-Hahaha! Yes, it actually has wool in this sweater. ; D & yes I massaged it right into my scalp, in hind sight not smart. Thanks for liking when I post. : D Sometimes I feel like I talk (type?) too much, haha!


Thank you to everyone for the posts, I hope I am responding to everyone!

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:34 PM
Other things to consider: are you taking any medications that might affect your hair? Are you getting good nutrition? You don't have to answer here, just food for thought.

Oh wow I hadn't thought of that. I started a birth control pill about three months ago? Does this cause hair loss?........

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:37 PM
I tried the second porosity method. While I don't exactly feel bumps, it is hard to get my fingers to glide up the shaft. It makes a squeak noise when I do it?

Anje
December 18th, 2013, 02:42 PM
I'm wondering if chelating might be a worthwhile thing to try.

Almendra
December 18th, 2013, 02:44 PM
I tried the second porosity method. While I don't exactly feel bumps, it is hard to get my fingers to glide up the shaft. It makes a squeak noise when I do it?

Probably medium porosity. Try it in mutiple strands all around the head. You could have more than one type in your hair, is very usual.

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:44 PM
Okay I'm really concerned. I looked up my specific birth control, and a side effect is hair shedding. I briskly looked at the comments and women were posting saying they had massive hair loss. Oh my gosh!! I thought I was shedding a lot these last few months because of the seasonal change, or stress, but I did not realize the time frame matches when I went on the meds... an even bigger problem is I can't come off of this pill because it is treating a serious reproductive condition I have.

kaydana
December 18th, 2013, 02:56 PM
Okay I'm really concerned. I looked up my specific birth control, and a side effect is hair shedding. I briskly looked at the comments and women were posting saying they had massive hair loss. Oh my gosh!! I thought I was shedding a lot these last few months because of the seasonal change, or stress, but I did not realize the time frame matches when I went on the meds... an even bigger problem is I can't come off of this pill because it is treating a serious reproductive condition I have.

Could you talk to your doctor about switching to a different pill or is the one you're on the only one that will treat that condition?

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:58 PM
Could you talk to your doctor about switching to a different pill or is the one you're on the only one that will treat that condition?

Unfortunately the one I'm on is a very specific birth control, so there is no option for switching. In the past I have tried birth controls which did not work or had obvious side effects, but this one is one that stops the cycle all together and has no estrogen (sorry if TMI for anyone!).

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 02:59 PM
Other things to consider: are you taking any medications that might affect your hair? Are you getting good nutrition? You don't have to answer here, just food for thought.

Thank you thank you for mentioning this. Thank you to EVERYONE for posting, and I am definitely going to try all these wonderful ideas, but the thought of my medication causing this never came in my mind, but now it really seems to make sense. I'm sure I'm not taking care of my hair well at all either, but as for the shedding amounts I've had...it just makes sense.

makeminea99
December 18th, 2013, 03:03 PM
Good luck WoolSweater, I hope you can find some answers and get your hair happy and healthy again! Sometimes it helps to get an outsiders perspective on a problem.

cranberrymoonz
December 18th, 2013, 03:12 PM
You don't have to be so self-conscious about your hair! I'ts pretty:) I second recommendations on the curly girl method for making it even prettier.

Fluffmitten
December 18th, 2013, 03:28 PM
I don't think your hair looks ugly :)

Mine goes like that sometimes, especially if I have used oil. I use Tres Emme clarifying shampoo every few weeks or so, usually just before I leave a reeaaaallly long protein treatment on it. Usually I use a cone-free but gentle shampoo every other day followed by Mega-Tek (every other time), then a light conditioner (every time) - coney at the moment because I'm growing out some damage and it's helping that.

I think our hair might be similar: mine tends to look oily at the scalp at the end of day two but I can get away with washing it every other day. I don't like washing it every day as the ends can get a bit frizzy. I always use conditioner but keep it off the scalp.

Thanks for mentioning the medication you are on, I thought at first that we might have been on the same one but I've just checked the packet and mine doesn't mention shedding. I hope yours turns out to be ok, perhaps you can ask your doctor if the side-effects are known to be continuous or only last a short time?

Good luck!

bibijay
December 18th, 2013, 03:46 PM
I know exactly what you mean about when you hang your head to the side - I have exactly the same thing! No swishy mane, just strands that you can see straight through. My hair's overprocessed so it's a struggle to get it nice, but your hair's a nice colour and doesn't look damaged, so I bet you can get it gorgeous with a few tweaks to your routine!
I'm a newbie and don't know much! But I have to ask why you don't use conditioner? That's the only thing puts bounce and shine in my hair. Different conditioners suit different people - Aussie works for my fine wavy hair, plus I find hair oil really useful (Loreal Elvive for example), plus be really careful how you comb, use a wide tooth comb and avoid brushing altogether. Also cut down on how often you shampoo, I think every other day max is best - less if possible. But other people on here will have loads more advice.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2013, 03:48 PM
Start by clarifying. Take 3 Tablespoons of baking soda and blend with 3 Tablespoons of shampoo. This gets rid of all the gunk built up on your hair. Second: Use conditioner, every single time you wash you hair. Condition the length only; none of the scalp hair. Allow sebum to do its job on the scalp. Start from the earlobes on down. May I recommend Biolage's Conditioning Balm. It's good for hair and the environment. Then allow hair to air dry. Then oil the hair length, only. From about the earlobes on down just oil. I recommend Coconut Oil by Spectrum Naturals. It doesn't smell like coconut at all. Then after your hair is detangled with a WIDE tooth comb, I recommend boar bristle brushing the hair length which should help with shine and all that. You should then be ok.

I think you should condition the hair length every time you wash your hair. THAT and oil the length. If you don't know how to oil the length I did a youtube video a few years back which is still on youtube. I describe exactly how to oil. If I didn't do something in the video, it means don't do it. The reason I suggest not oiling the scalp hair is because sebum exists and it does provide its own waxy substance. You don't need to load on oil.
heidi w.

BlazingHeart
December 18th, 2013, 04:30 PM
I know that for some curlies, the curls loosen if their hair is short on moisture. Most curly hair is prone to dryness already, and the combination of using clarifying shampoos and oily hair shampoos and not conditioning is likely to have you seriously dried out! I think a SMT would be a good idea.

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 04:30 PM
Okay all, I am going to do a clarifying shampoo with baking soda and follow with conditioner! Will I see results, or is it a lengthy process with clarifying? Also I am going to rinse with cold water, although the temperatures are making me cold just thinking about that, haha!

Edit: I'm now getting balding advertisements, oh great! Haha. Thank you to everyone for the posts, and thank you to those who say it's not ugly. I look at the long, shiny, silky tresses of most of you then at my hair, and, well, I almost want to cry! But hopefully I can get my hair looking and feeling healthy again! :)

biogirl87
December 18th, 2013, 04:47 PM
WoolSweater, clarifying should not be a really lengthy process. You may want to do the lather and rinse process twice in the same shower though to make sure you get all the oil out of your hair.

WoolSweater
December 18th, 2013, 05:21 PM
I had a thought, and I know this is technically a medical question, but opinions are welcomed... if my thin hair/stringiness was due to my medication, wouldn't my hair be shedding when I wash it/brush it? Because I vigorously scrubbed on my scalp/hair and I think I saw three hairs total in the tub. When I take a shower, I never see any hair at the drain. It just seems to be shedding when I'm going about my business. Does random shedding sound more like normal hair loss? I guess in my mind, medically-caused shedding would come out with any kind of pulling.

katiebeans
December 18th, 2013, 05:24 PM
I don't have much advice to offer other than perhaps you can try using dry shampoo on the second day to stretch your washes :)

ravenreed
December 18th, 2013, 05:36 PM
I get massive shedding when I oil my scalp, but not from using conditioner on my scalp. I get lank hair, stringing hair if I use any oil at all on my ends, even the smallest amount. Also, when I oil my ends, which are CL, my scalp hair is oilier the next day. It is the WEIRDEST thing because there is a ginormous length for the oil to wick up, but it does it. I have mostly given up oil. I use the CO method, cleansing every other day. It works well enough that I realized that oil was doing more harm than good. I would suggest laying off all oils for a while and see if that helps. Also, I second (or third) clarifying. When I really need to clarify thoroughly, I add about a teaspoon of baking soda to two ounces of water, and then add two ounces of shampoo to that. I always follow that with a vinegar or lemon juice rinse.

Firefox7275
December 18th, 2013, 06:26 PM
Firstly your hair is NOT ugly. Secondly Curly Girl method, Curly Girl method, Curly Girl method. Thirdly work with your hair properties, coconut oil treatmemts are great for porous hair, not so much for low porosity hair.

ErinLeigh
December 18th, 2013, 07:05 PM
I wouldn't fear conditioner. There are some nice light ones. Even just a light leave in conditioner spray could work. Curly hair tends to be drier so maybe your hair wants some moisture. Moisturized hair tends to behave a lot better and appear fuller than dry hair. There are some good volumizing shampoo and conditioners out there you could try as well.

It looks from the pictures you had layers when your hair was wavier. Maybe the layers lightened it up enough to curl? I can see some curl wanting to start to form on the bottom. Try a modified curly girl method and see if that brings something back.

I would also try a vinegar rinse after shampoo or a lemon juice rinse. Something seems to be weighting your hair down a bit and it could be minerals in the water.

I am going to read the comments and see what is posted.

If it sounds weird me talking about wurls and curls I am sorry. I am a secret wurly. My hair is actually wurly and curly. I just blow dry mine straight. Mine actually looks a lot like the pic of your curly hair. :)

Oh, I forgot to mention. I do not find coconut oil "conditioning."
I find it can lock some moisture in if my hair is damp..and it seems to make my hair stronger..but I don't use it to condition. I use it to protect, strengthen and add some shine. I only say that in case you are using the coconut oil not working as a basis for deciding if hair is conditioned or not.

Also, have you asked your stylist her opinion on what is happening with your hair? Sometimes it is really hair to tell without touching it and really seeing it in action.

I forgot to ask..what shampoo are you currently using the lemongrass one. I would love to see the ingredient list just for curiosity?

I really don't think hair looks bad. I just think it is not what you want. I think it is fixable though to get it how you want it if hair really is curly. Just need to pinpint what is giving it the weight and texture that is bothering you.

I just read you said you used indigo. Did you do it over henna? You may have straightened out your curls and some is trying to fight thru giving you the piecy look in the bottom. If you aren't opposed to blowdrying after 80 percent dry you could always round brush you hair and straighten it after it is mostly dry. That will give you shine and volume. This is just something to consider until the waves and curls come back.

I lost my wurls and curls from doing keratin treatments and they are finally starting to come back but as of now thay aren;t back enough to look good airdried and left on their own so I round brush. As the wurls do come back I am slowly getting more volume at least in the meantime. :)

Also, is your hair really oily or does it just feel coated? It didn't look oily in the curly photo. You could be causing scalp to produce extra oil by using shampoo made for oily hair if that is not your true hair type. What was hair like when it was curly? Just wondering and fishing for ideas.

As most say..start fresh..clarify it well and deep condition it. Start from scratch. Once it dries check it next day and see how it feels. Is it oily already or does it feel normal. Start fresh and see what is really happening. One good clarify and one deep condition wont hurt at all so I don't hesitate to always say start with that.

Wildcat Diva
December 18th, 2013, 07:43 PM
I have so much I want to say!

Ok... first off, not ugly. And, you should post MORE not less.

What everyone else said, and also seconding Anje's comment to chelate couldn't hurt as part of your troubleshooting process. Maybe over the next month you could keep a hair journal, document shedding, routine, and hair response. Make a change every two weeks to try to see if you can figure it out.

I wonder if the oil on your scalp caused the shedding, and if the hennaindigo caused your loss of curl.

Redvelvetdragon
December 19th, 2013, 12:13 PM
If you need a good very light but effective conditioner, I can recommend Veganese by Lush. It's extremely light and doesn't weigh down hair yet makes hair soft. I only do the ends though and since you are curly a light but through conditioning may be needed (after the clarifying though).

Good luck! Also, I would stop trying to strip out the indigo. That could be damaging your hair as well.

abauer789
December 19th, 2013, 12:25 PM
Other things to consider: are you taking any medications that might affect your hair? Are you getting good nutrition? You don't have to answer here, just food for thought.

I was thinking the same thing...when I was on birth control my hair thinned so badly. I know other medications can do that, as would a poor diet. I was also vitamin D deficient. Once I stopped the birth control and starting taking vitamin D supplements prescribed by my doctor the change was amazing. My hair thickened up, and my sparse eyebrows and eyelashes too! :o

Emichiee
December 19th, 2013, 06:36 PM
I used to deal with super stringy hair at that length! Imagine the same stringiness with straight hair. My hair isn't thin but the fact that it looked like that made it appear thinner. I think you have the same problem.

What helped my hair stay together is growing my hair longer...it started behaving better past Midback. And an even hemline also helps keeping the strings together. Now my ends may get a bit clumpy, but everything above it stays in a blob for most of the day.

One more thing that also helped - my hair used to get oily very quickly. I only washed with Shampoo, just like you. But before I started growing I was using a Shampoo with Sulfates. That really contributed to stringiness, and when I started stretching washes with a milder shampoo, my hair finally turned into one even blanket :)

I think this pic might be a good example.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dUWAgnQat9Q/UaKG5mKlA_I/AAAAAAAABuY/i1Ht7QYHrBg/w539-h408-no/IMG_5567.JPG

My hair was quite messy and uncombed, because I was on top of a hill/ castle and it was windy. But the top part that falls forward is more or less one clump, while the ends are messy only.

Avital88
December 19th, 2013, 09:27 PM
it looks like my hair before i brush it, just wurly hair, i dont see anything terrible in it.. dont be so hard on yourself

lapushka
December 20th, 2013, 01:32 PM
I had a thought, and I know this is technically a medical question, but opinions are welcomed... if my thin hair/stringiness was due to my medication, wouldn't my hair be shedding when I wash it/brush it? Because I vigorously scrubbed on my scalp/hair and I think I saw three hairs total in the tub. When I take a shower, I never see any hair at the drain. It just seems to be shedding when I'm going about my business. Does random shedding sound more like normal hair loss? I guess in my mind, medically-caused shedding would come out with any kind of pulling.

IMO, it would be shedding non-stop, and not just on and off. So I'm guessing it's not medication?

WoolSweater
December 21st, 2013, 01:28 PM
Hi all,

I'm not sure how to do the multiple reply thing where I can post everyone's original comment with my response, so I hope I cover everything!

Ravenweed, have you ever used argan oil? I was considering trying some of that to tame the frizz, but I'm like you, my hair seems to soak up oil and never let go.

Firefox (and everyone else commenting on the Curly Girl Method), I've done this method twice now. I started with a very good clarifying shampoo with baking soda, and since then have used only conditioner, followed with a very cold water rinse. I can't say I see any results yet, only that my hair gets oily much quicker during the day. Is this a normal adjustment period? It is shinier, but yes, looks very oily by the end of the day. I do spend quite a bit of time making sure I've washed all the conditioner off my scalp.

Erinleigh, thank you for all the input! When my hair was curly, it still got very oily on the scalp area. I've always had an oily scalp, ever since highschool. But back then I didn't consider the shampoos were doing more damage than good, because I dried my length out. When I do henndigo, I do 80%indigo/20%henna. Thankfully a lot of it has faded with honey/baking soda/various other methods, but my blonde roots are really starting to show! I do have layers, I actually had some put in to rid some of the crunchy ends. I'm going to my hair stylist soon so I will ask him what he thinks about the hair loss. Last time I went to have it trimmed, the stylist said I didn't have thin hair, just fine hair. Of course, it looks thin *to me* but in part it's because I spend my time looking at photos of women with thick, full, flowing hair, and my hair doesn't hold a match against their hair. :( The shampoo I use is Acure Lemongrass+Argan oil. I think my biggest problem is that the scalp area (and thus affecting fringe/temple area hair) is oily, and the length is very flat and dull. There's no life to it, it looks kind of.....dead. :(

Wildcat Diva, a hair journal is an excellent idea! I am soon off to Google "chelating", can't say I've heard of that before, but sounds interesting. :)

Redvelvetdragon, I wish I could stop trying, haha, I'm so bent on getting this out, but I am going to give it one more go with a chemical type of removal and from there on out, natural methods. If I can just fade the line where the dye meets the roots, that would be good. Thank you for the conditioner recommendation, I think the one I have is too heavy for me!

abauer789, I wish I could go off of my medication. I never liked the idea of it in the first place, but my condition is too bad to not be on any kind of medication. And unfortunately I'm on the mildest kind, any other birth control will be heavier in dosage and hormones. I'm going to be looking up ways to see if there's anything I can do to combat thinning due to meds without going off of them...I doubt it, but worth a shot!

Emichiee, this is actually SO encouraging, thank you! It does make sense that it would look stringy at my length, since there's really nothing for it to lay against... it's just hanging right now and doesn't look good, but I can see how a longer length would help lessen the stringy look. Your hair is so beautiful, too.

Avital88, thank you, I have a hard time with hair envy, seeing other women with thick shiny hair! I'm trying different things to bring out the "wurl" and see if that makes a difference.

lapushka, that's what I was thinking...well, hoping! Because when I wash it or brush it, just a small amount might come out, several hairs at most. Before when I lost my hair, it was coming out in handfuls if I brushed it or even touched it with my fingers. This shedding doesn't seem the same, but I've also never been on birth control so I'm not sure, but I would just think it would be shedding more with washing/brushing if it was a medication side effect?

WoolSweater
December 21st, 2013, 01:45 PM
I've thought of a couple more things.

I'd say I shed around 50 hairs a day (big guess, but it's not an opaque ball of hair or anything). Is this a normal amount? Not in clumps, just single hairs everywhere.
When I examine the shed hairs, there is a little ball on the end. These same little balls (tiny, hard, off white colour) are why I run my fingers through my hair. It's become a bad habit if I am watching television/reading to run my fingernails along my scalp to rub off the little balls. Sorry if that is TMI to say. It's not flaky dandruff, and you can't see them just by looking; it's like it's part of the skin. A while ago I Googled this and everything I found was saying an excess of sebum causes the little hard balls. But when I shed, the same little hard things will be at the end of the hair. Again, sorry if TMI. Just thought this occurrence might help with what's going on.....

ravenreed
December 21st, 2013, 04:31 PM
As I said, I have mostly given up oils, but when I do oil, I use either argan, camellia, or meadowfoam seed oil. Or a mix of those. What I do is dampen my ends, apply the oil, let it sit for a half hour or so, and then CO it out. Conditioner removes oils much more effectively than shampooing. If I over-oiled, I will put conditioner on over the oil and let that sit for a bit before hopping in the shower. Then I CO as normal.

I don't let oils sit in my hair overnight anymore because I realized that I was getting all sorts of lint in my hair and that was making my hair tangle more. Also, I was getting buildup faster. Plus, I didn't notice a huge difference over just using the CO method with my ACV and catnip rinses.

I do like argan oil. Of all of them, my hair absorbs that one the best with the least greasy look afterwards. However, as I said, it does make my crown greasier the next day if I leave it on for any length of time. I hate greasy hair. My hair is flat and the scalp shows through all over the place. Not flattering, IMO.

CurlMonster
December 21st, 2013, 05:06 PM
The little white balls on the end of shed hairs is the hair follicle. I don't know about finding those balls on your scalp though, I don't think I've ever noticed that.

Emichiee
December 21st, 2013, 07:56 PM
Thank you! :)

Maybe you can grow to a longer length quickly by skipping some trims and then trim once you reached a length
where your hair does stay together better (maybe Apl-BsL ish?)
And like I said, different products and washing cycle might help too!


I had a thought, and I know this is technically a medical question, but opinions are welcomed... if my thin hair/stringiness was due to my medication, wouldn't my hair be shedding when I wash it/brush it? Because I vigorously scrubbed on my scalp/hair and I think I saw three hairs total in the tub. When I take a shower, I never see any hair at the drain. It just seems to be shedding when I'm going about my business. Does random shedding sound more like normal hair loss? I guess in my mind, medically-caused shedding would come out with any kind of pulling.

If you were losing more than normal you would certainly be collecting more than just a few hairs when washing. More like a little ball. You can count your shed hairs. Just wear your brushed hair up for a day, then comb out shed hairs. Less than 60 is best, although some people lose up to 100 hairs a day (increased shedding but not full blown hair loss for most).
It is also possible to lose very little hair of course.

Flor
December 22nd, 2013, 12:41 AM
These same little balls (tiny, hard, off white colour) are why I run my fingers through my hair. It's become a bad habit if I am watching television/reading to run my fingernails along my scalp to rub off the little balls. Sorry if that is TMI to say. It's not flaky dandruff, and you can't see them just by looking; it's like it's part of the skin. A while ago I Googled this and everything I found was saying an excess of sebum causes the little hard balls. But when I shed, the same little hard things will be at the end of the hair. Again, sorry if TMI. Just thought this occurrence might help with what's going on.....

I have those! My husband has those. My sister has those. It's definitely not dandruff and I only "find" them when I massage my scalp with fingertips (which I also tend to do every night, while watching TV, before final combing of the day and putting hair up to sleep). They are all over, not in any specific area. I think it's perfectly normal. I've searched the forum quickly and appears a lot of people have mentioned same thing. Apparently it's just hardened sebum balls. Some say oiling scalp with jojoba oil with some tea tree oil a few hours before the wash helps dissolve those and wash them off. It never really bothered me personally.

bunzfan
December 22nd, 2013, 12:49 AM
My hair also could look like that at your length when it got longer it weighed it down some and looked better. Have you tried finger combing it really brings out the wave more.

WoolSweater
December 22nd, 2013, 06:19 PM
Okay here is a picture update. After two days of CO washing, I caved and mixed some shampoo in with the conditioner. After that, I scrunched my hair and added in some curling cream, and let it dry mostly then blow dried it the rest of the way. It's still not pretty IMO, and also stringy, but as you can see, curls are trying to come through in the front, but not in the back. It looks really funny from the side. :laugh:

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/2_zpseb3d9611.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/2_zpseb3d9611.jpg.html)
http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/4_zps24ff34ae.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/4_zps24ff34ae.jpg.html)
http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/1_zpseee3035d.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/1_zpseee3035d.jpg.html)
http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w552/KnitSweater/3_zpsfcac5946.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/KnitSweater/media/3_zpsfcac5946.jpg.html)

TiaKitty
December 22nd, 2013, 06:24 PM
I see the curls! I see them! :D

Still betting on the hendigo as the reason for the curl loss.

Don't see stringy, either...

WoolSweater
December 22nd, 2013, 06:39 PM
I see the curls! I see them! :D

Still betting on the hendigo as the reason for the curl loss.

Don't see stringy, either...

They are trying sooo hard to come through! Haha. I bet it is the henndigo, too. I have some alma I may apply after my next hair stylist visit. I don't know if it will do any good curl wise, but I've also read about alma giving hair gorgeous shine.

I think I see stringy because it goes in pieces when I move, like tilting my head. Most women's hair are not see through. But as other people have said, it's probably due to the length I'm at now. Still, I've been bad this last few weeks and have photos of illustrious hair all over, they were supposed to be for inspiration so I wouldn't be tempted to chop my hair again, but they've turned into a "I wish my hair looked like that!" thing, whiny and complaining. I need to get positive!



(Edit: I'm now getting men's balding ads all over the forums due to my hair loss discussion haha, NOT helping! :laugh: )

Wildcat Diva
December 22nd, 2013, 06:50 PM
Oh a lot of our hair ends are a bit see through. Some people on here have a nice thick opaque hemline. When I finger comb only for waves I have it worse. Sometimes I brush the waves out so I can see that the hemline looks thicker. I wouldn't stress too much at this stage. I want to provide more reassurance to you but I'm failing to find the words.

Wildcat Diva
December 22nd, 2013, 07:01 PM
Here pix are better to explain. Look:
Here's me stringy:
http://imageshack.us/a/img706/4978/mxw1.jpg

And this is better, more opaque ends: I dunno why the difference. Maybe the first shot I was a tad damp still.
http://imageshack.us/a/img89/4811/hoge.jpg

Black shirt helps too! I'm never wearing that bright shirt for a length shot again.

When you first join on here a person can start to have some unrealistic expectations and brainwashed sometimes about how long hair looks. Many of us have beautiful hair that is healthy but we can get freaked out and obsessive about factors like thickness, for one thing. I hope this helps.

WoolSweater
December 22nd, 2013, 07:13 PM
Here pix are better to explain. Look:
Here's me stringy:
http://imageshack.us/a/img706/4978/mxw1.jpg

And this is better, more opaque ends: I dunno why the difference. Maybe the first shot I was a tad damp still.
http://imageshack.us/a/img89/4811/hoge.jpg

Black shirt helps too! I'm never wearing that bright shirt for a length shot again.

When you first join on here a person can start to have some unrealistic expectations and brainwashed sometimes about how long hair looks. Many of us have beautiful hair that is healthy but we can get freaked out and obsessive about factors like thickness, for one thing. I hope this helps.

Loooove your hair. And your curls! They're beautiful. I think I do have unrealistic expectations, because I've never had thick hair. And what I am wanting is thick hair, but that's impossible. But if I can get it shiny and healthy looking without those piecey bits, I'll be thrilled. I do wonder how much of it is to blame on the henndigo. Or maybe there's still something left that I'm not doing, or something I need to quit doing.

Thanks for the encouragement! :flower:

Wildcat Diva
December 22nd, 2013, 07:27 PM
I know you can do it. Sometimes I get depressed about my hair, or feel that it's thin.

We are often our own worst critic.

TiaKitty
December 22nd, 2013, 07:38 PM
My ends are definitely see through. Do you have layers in there? If so, that could contribute, too. I cut layers into my hair so that it isn't like dense thicket, and as such, my ends are see through. Even if you don't, if your hair has wurls and curls those grow and form in clumps, so when they get to lay together in their own happy little clump, they're farther apart from the next set of hairs that like to get snuggled in with each other. There will be space between the clumps.

Don't freak out! Your hair is normal and does not look ugly, in the least!

TiaKitty
December 22nd, 2013, 07:41 PM
Perfect example, WCD! I also matters greatly what you are seeing the ends against, like her bright shirt in the first example...

And see how each of her hairs doesn't want to go the same direction... instead she's got little groups of hairs that have formed gangs, and those gangs all want to go the same direction, and, voila! A curl or a wurl is a gang-like clump!

Thinthondiel
December 22nd, 2013, 10:06 PM
I agree with those who have said you should try chelating. At least that way, combined with the clarifying you've done, you can rule out any kind of build-up.

By the way, you haven't mentioned anything about this, so I'm assuming this isn't the problem, but I just thought I'd ask anyway... you don't happen to use any type of vinegar on your hair, by any chance? I used diluted vinegar for a while, but it turned my hair stringy no matter how little I used (and it didn't matter whether it was acv or white vinegar), so I had to stop.


I wouldn't fear conditioner. There are some nice light ones. Even just a light leave in conditioner spray could work. Curly hair tends to be drier so maybe your hair wants some moisture. Moisturized hair tends to behave a lot better and appear fuller than dry hair. There are some good volumizing shampoo and conditioners out there you could try as well.


I just wanted to mention that for some curlies/wavies (including myself and several others on this board), moisture actually tends to loosen the curls/waves. If I put a humectant like aloe vera gel in my hair, my waves fall out and my hair can't hold a curl properly if I try to curl it... whereas when my hair is dry, it's likely to form a few spirals, and will hold a curl for a couple of days if I pin curl it. But of course, if my hair is really dry it's also frizz- and poof-prone, so I have to try to find a balance.

sagremus
December 23rd, 2013, 12:44 AM
Look like my hair when I over-oil it with coconut oil. I also shed more when this happens. I was also shedding like a dog when I was on Mirena.

tigereye
December 23rd, 2013, 06:52 AM
Hi there *waves* I agree with the others - post more not less :) I like your posts.

First off, your hair is beautiful, not ugly.
I'll try to contribute, though I have different hair to you (thick, 1c, combination of strand types)
I, too, am on a specific progesterone-only pill because of blood-clot issues and migraines. I have to be on one for my other meds (even though the chances of my getting pregnant anyway at this time is nil, but anyway). It, too, stops my cycle completely. Since going on that, I've lost a good 1/2" ponytail thickness. It's not so major for me because that just brings mine down to the ii/iii thickness border, since I had thick hair anyway, but for people with thinner hair, that can be fairly significant. I actually have to sweep the carpets fairly frequently with a hard brush to pick up the hair else it kills my vacuum cleaner before Ive even been around the room. It's for a similar reason I only brush my hair and style it in my own room. I have to have a hair-catcher on the shower drain because of my shedding combined with my length (big ball of hip-length hairs anyone?). How long have you been on it? I ask because my shedding was awful for a few months, but it has only recently begun to start getting better (though I can almost bet I'm going to shed like crazy once net months exams roll around). I have a whole bunch of new baby hairs growing in, which requires me to keep even better care of my hair to prevent them sticking out like crazy on me. But that signals to me that their may be light at the end of the tunnel for those of us with pill-related hair-loss. And even if it doesn't increase in thickness, then don't worry - there are plenty of beautiful heads of thin hair on here to get inspiration from.

Although I am a 1c, I notice a huge difference in my hair with different water types. I can tell as soon as I've washed my hair if a place I'm visiting has hard or soft water. My hair is a 1c (pretty straight with a body wave and flicks at the ends) with soft water and my regular routine. A single wash with the same routine in an area with very hard water does a few things. Firstly, my body wave and end-flicks disappear. I end up with 1a/b pin-straight with uncontrollable frizz at the very ends from my courser hairs fighting to wave and flick as my finer hairs submit to straightness. Secondly, for a few washes, my hair feels really weird - super soft, but not anything like my usual post-wash super soft. It vaguely feels like it did when I was a cone user - coated - and it lasts the full week until I wash. If I stay long enough in the area, my hair ends up feeling nasty and piece-y and just weird. Have a look on a map for water softness to see what kind of water your area has. I used to live in one of the only places with hard water in Scotland, but now have very soft water. If you have hard water, chelating is a good idea every now and again.
I didn't see if you have clarified yet. If you haven't I'd advise it. Start with a clean slate.
I think coconut oil on the scalp was one of the big problems. I only use oil in the 12-24 hours pre wash, unless I'm likely to be camping or something, in which case I leave it on for days. I use conditioner from the ears down. Coconut oil only goes from my shoulders down. Meaning it only goes on the parts of my hair that gets a good 10-minute soak with conditioner as I do other stuff in the shower. The other thing is the amount - The amount of toothpaste I use to brush my teeth is about equal to the amount of coconut oil I use and that's for thick, hip-length hair. (I only ever really soak it for camping)
I find Nightbloomings panacea to be a much better leave-in for me than any oil ever was. I'm still working my way through the sample pots after a year, though that's at least helped me decide which kind I liked best.
I won't go into silicones and sulphate a since my allergy to SLS and SLES kind of denotes my stance on that rather than actual effect on hair, but other folk can help you out there.
:grouphug: your hair is beautiful. Don't get down about it.

WoolSweater
December 23rd, 2013, 04:59 PM
Wildcat Diva , thank you! I think I am going to go back to styling up-dos while it grows another inch. I think trying to wear it down like I have been doing is causing my extreme dislike of my hair type. Maybe once it's longer and laying more "normally" it will look a little fuller. : )

TiaKitty, yes I do have layers! The areas that are most see through are the bottom layer, so the layer with the least amount of hair. : / But thank you, hearing this is normal is helping!

Thinthondiel, actually I was soon going to do a vinegar rinse so I'm glad you mentioned this! I'm looking up chelating recipes... have one you'd recommend? Seems to differ here and there. I'm easing up on the conditioner a bit... my hair was feeling really heavy and oily, even though I'd positively washed all the conditioner out. Maybe it's an adjustment period? If so, I can't have it around the holidays, haha. I guess I'm kind of vain!

sagremus, yes I don't think I'll be making that mistake again. 8( I put gobs of it on. Oh man...

tigereye, hello, and thank you for the nice compliment! : ) I have been on it for four months, almost five. My doctor said it would take about three months for my body to adjust, but she does not address side effects unless they are significant (and to most doctors, hair loss is not a big deal). My problem is, I started it right at the period where I shed most (autumn/winter), so I have no idea if the increase in hairs everywhere is just me, or the medication. Also I should mention I am extremely stressed. Life is not great at the moment and there are a lot of major things happening and so all the stressed induced things are flaring up (migraines, acne, soreness). Do you think shedding could be validly caused by stress? I have clarified, with three tablespoons baking soda and shampoo. My scalp felt AMAZING after I did this, oh man. I am kind of wanting to do it again! I think I'm scared away from coconut oil at the moment, haha, but I will definitely look at Nightbloomings panacea!

tigereye
December 24th, 2013, 02:40 AM
*snip* Do you think shedding could be validly caused by stress?
It can be. I mentioned mine growing back just in time for exams, because my hair reacts badly to the big stresses around exam time. Usually, though, it takes a lot of stress to make mine start falling, so though I get stressed at uni, it's really only exam times the effect is really there.

Thinthondiel
December 26th, 2013, 09:02 AM
Thinthondiel, actually I was soon going to do a vinegar rinse so I'm glad you mentioned this! I'm looking up chelating recipes... have one you'd recommend? Seems to differ here and there. I'm easing up on the conditioner a bit... my hair was feeling really heavy and oily, even though I'd positively washed all the conditioner out. Maybe it's an adjustment period? If so, I can't have it around the holidays, haha. I guess I'm kind of vain!


I don't have a recipe, I just use a chelating shampoo. The one I use is the Joico K-pak chelating shampoo (which also clarifies).