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View Full Version : can any experts help?!? i am a HOT HAIR MESS!



jimnyo
November 27th, 2013, 01:44 AM
OK, to start with, I have fine/med Asian hair which pretty decent b/c I'd only highlighted my hair twice in my entire life, so it was pretty healthy. Except my scalp always seemed to be itchy. I'd be so paranoid that I had lice, but I'd always get it checked and it was clean. So I started using Theraneem shampoo & conditioner. It helped a little and at least I knew I didn't have lice (neem is supposed to kill/repel lice). I'd tried various tea tree shampoos (Trader Joe's was the WORST and completely dried out my hair!!), but I'd read that tea tree oil could irritate the skin and I think that was also what was happening.

So last month I got my hair done ombre, which is essentially highlights on just the ends. They said to start using sulfate-free stuff, which I think the Theraneem stuff is. But I noticed my ends looked damaged b/c of the color. They WEREN'T actually damaged, they just looked that way b/c of the color and they were slightly frizzier than they used to be. So I thought I'd try CO'ing. Well, as I was on here I discovered the list of possible ingredients that could make you itch and I think that might be my problem! Because Suave does make me itch and has the Methylisothiazolinone. And it's in everything else that's been making me itch--Herbal Essences Color Me happy, the Theraneem shampoo, Pantene Moisture, etc. etc. etc. It's in EVERYTHING!! ARGGHH!! I had also been wondering if I'm sensitive to cocamiprydol betaine (sp?), but I can't tell now b/c of the Methylisothiazolinone being in everything. Actually, the Theraneem doesn't have it, but it has Sodium Hydroxylmethylglycinate which is a potential itch-inducer too.

So i finally found Desert Essences Italian Grape shampoo and conditioner. I think it helps. However, it leaves me a bit frizzy still. CO'ing w/the conditioner was pretty good for the first couple days, but then I discovered I was getting MAJOR dandruff and the itch was starting to creep back in by the 3rd day. I was trying to CO wash, wait a couple days, then shampoo the scalp w/the Desert Essences shampoo and condition the hair, then wait a couple days and CO wash, etc. The first week looked pretty good, until the super bad case of dandruff showed up.

So yesterday, I CWC'd with the Herbal Essences (hoping the shampoo would keep the Herbal Essences off my scalp), DE shampoo, then DE conditioner. Still flaky and itchy. This morning, I did a quickie version of the Ursula’s Mega-Moisturizing Oil-SMT-Aloe Wash. Sat for 20 mins. with coconut oil in my hair, rinsed, used a mix of Suave Passionfruit/Vanilla, honey and aloe (I decided to try and gamble one more time w/Suave, using a different scent than usual), sat for 20 mins. Rinsed out, but felt super matted and oily still, so shampooed scalp with Theraneem. Rinsed all out, didn't have any more aloe left, so blow dried. Flakes are mostly gone. Itch was pretty good too. Until tonight! I feel it starting to creep back!! I am going bonkers--this has been wayyyy more work than I have ever spent on my hair (not to mention money trying to find the right products) and I don't see any real visible improvement and now I have dandruff and a worse case of the itchies than when I started!

Can any fine/relatively straight haired experts help me with this? I think my main issues are:
1. Is the dandruff/itching happening b/c of my scalp being dirtier than usual? If so, how am I supposed to 'stretch' it out to a week? Someone told me it gets better after that, but I haven't been able to make it past 3 days!
2. Is CO not really an option for me?
3. What products don't have Methylisothiazolinone in them?
4. I think I need 'cones b/c of the frizz from the color job?

I am really just so confused at this point, if anyone can help, I'd be SO VERY GRATEFUL!! Thanks so much!

P.S. If it helps, here are the ingredients list for the products I mentioned:
ITALIAN GRAPE SHAMPOO
Aqueous Infusion of Certified Organic Extracts:, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) (Grape), Urtica Dioica (Nettle) (Nettle), Macrocystis Pyrifera (Kelp) (Grape), Cocamidopropyl Betaine (coconut derived), Sodium Coco Sulfate (coconut derived), Decyl Glucoside (vegetable derived), Polyquaternium 7 (coconut derived), Resveratrol, Red Wine Extract, Panthenol, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Proprietary Blend of Natural Essential Oils, Citric Acid, Sodium Chloride, Phenoxyethanol, Potassium Glutamate, Potassium Sorbate
ITALIAN GRAPE CONDITIONER
Aqueous Infusion of Certified Organic Extracts:, Vitis Vinifera (Grape), Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil (Olive), Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil (Grape), Helianthus Annuus Seed Oil (Sunflower), Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter) Oil (Shea Butter), Emulsifying Wax (vegetable derived), Resveratrol, Red Wine Extract, Panthenol, Tocopherol (Natural Vitamin E), Prunus Amygdalus Protein (Almond), Polyquaternium 7 (coconut derived), Proprietary Blend of Natural Essential Oils, Phenoxyethanol, Potassium Glutamate, Potassium Sorbate
THERANEEM SHAMPOO
Ingredients: Aqueous Extract of Azadirachta Indica (Neem) Leaf*, Chamomilla Recutita (Chamomile) Flowers, Arnica Cordifolia, Pinus Sylvestris (Pine) Bark, Ocimum Basillicum (Basil) and Prunus serotina (Cherry) Bark, Olefin Sulfonate, Polysorbate 20, Alkyl Polyglucoside, Lauramide DEA, Peg-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Azadirachta Indica (Neem) Oil*, Kosher Glycerin, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Sodium Chloride (Sea Salt), Panthenol, Fragrance (from natural ingredients), Citric Acid.
* Certified Organic
THERANEEM CONDITIONER
Ingredients: Aqueous Extract Azadirachta Indica (Neem) Leaf*, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice*, Cetearyl Alcohol, Peg-40 Castor Oil, Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil*, Azadirachta Indica (Neem) Oil*, Stearalkonium Chloride, Phenoxyethanol & Caprylyl Glycol, Panthenol, Kosher Glycerin, Fragrance (from natural ingredients), Tocopherol (Vitamin E).
* Certified Organic
HERBAL ESSENCES COLOR ME HAPPY CONDITIONER
Water, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Rosa Centifolia (Rose) Flower Extract, Passiflora Incarnata (Passionflower) Flower Extract, Zea Mays (Corn) Silk Extract, Fragrance, Glutamic Acid, Bis Aminopropyl Dimethicone, Benzyl Alcohol, EDTA (Ethylenediamine-Tetra-Acetic Acid), Citric Acid, Sodium Chloride, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Yellow 10, Red 33, Yellow 6

Rio040113
November 27th, 2013, 02:15 AM
First off, I must say it could be worthwhile getting your scalp checked by a dermatologist, to rule out any skin conditions or allergies :)

Now that's been said... I'm not saying it will work for everyone but I used to have a majorly itchy scalp (and a few flakies!) and I found adding a few drops of tea tree oil into my diluted shampoo mix cleared it right up (that was the only thing I changed, so I'm 99% sure it's to thank). Tea tree oil can be irritating to your skin/scalp but usually only if it's applied directly, undiluted or hasn't been diluted enough. Of course some people may be more sensitive to it than others, like with anything really. I used to put anywhere from 3-5 'drops' in 500ml of water (with a squeeze of shampoo). I don't need to use it anymore but I keep it around, just in case :)

And I'm no expert but...

1. Is the dandruff/itching happening b/c of my scalp being dirtier than usual? If so, how am I supposed to 'stretch' it out to a week? Someone told me it gets better after that, but I haven't been able to make it past 3 days!

Possibly. I get itchy sometimes even now if I try to stretch my washes too far. By Day 3 I'm getting a little itchy and a nice light co-wash sorts it out right away. (Before using tea tree I was itching all day every day, freshly washed or not). I'd start by getting your itching and flaking sorted then stretch your washes very slowly. It can help if you use sulphate free shampoo and dilute your shampoo or co-wash. Scritching, Massaging and Preening (SMPing) can help with stretching washes and keeping your scalp clean too.

2. Is CO not really an option for me?

I'd say it's an option for most people, whether it's the best option for you or not might be hard to tell until your scalp is feeling better! I'm a fine hair and love co-washing! Plus this is the first Winter in years that my scalp isn't overly dry (And yet my hair is usually on the greasy side? Go figure :lol:)

3. What products don't have Methylisothiazolinone in them?

I'm sorry, I can't help you too much here but I think AubreyOrganics (http://www.aubreyorganicsuk.co.uk/hair-care-c87) products are free from it... The ingredients for each shampoo/conditioner are listed if you click on them :)

4. I think I need 'cones b/c of the frizz from the color job?

Maybe, maybe not, some peoples hair loves 'cones, others not so much. If you do use 'cones, depending on the type you may need to clarify every so often to avoid build up. Have you tried oils/butters?

Hope something I said helps at all, good luck finding a solution!

Allychan
November 27th, 2013, 03:02 AM
Coconut oil would help solve a couple of your issues: Including lessening the frizz, treating the dry itchy scalp and headlice (is that why you used the neem?). Warm the coconut oil and massage into your scalp and ends. You can add it to your shampoo, to lessen the harshness too. I'd also shampoo less and see if that helps lessen the itchiness :o

Flor
November 27th, 2013, 03:28 AM
Coconut oil would help solve a couple of your issues: Including lessening the frizz, treating the dry itchy scalp and headlice (is that why you used the neem?). Warm the coconut oil and massage into your scalp and ends. You can add it to your shampoo, to lessen the harshness too. I'd also shampoo less and see if that helps lessen the itchiness :o

Coconut oil can be drying on some people, so it's not a guaranteed solution. As for lice, I thought olive oil treatment (over a course of one month with scheduled applications) was recommended?

To OP, it's really hard to recommend something. There's just too many things you've tried in a short period of time. BUT. Was there ever a time in your life when your scalp wasn't itchy? And what products were you using then? And if it's always been itchy, I'd recommend getting it checked out too. I'm usually not the kind of person to recommend going to doctors, but if you've always suffered with itchy scalp, it might be best to get it checked out. It could be something in your diet you're allergic to or the opposite - you're missing some vitamins or minerals. Going gluten-free (both shampoo and diet) has solved many people's itchy scalp issues, for example. Other people had success with apple cider vinegar rinses. I also hear fish oil often mentioned as a recommended supplement (to take in, not to rub on your scalp ;)).

restless
November 27th, 2013, 05:12 AM
I dont recognise any of the products names youre using but Id just like to chime in and say I agree with the people who say you should get your scalp checked, it could be anything. The dandruff can be a sign of fungal infection on the scalp or maybe youre simply just dry thanks to some of the products (maybe the lice shampoo is too harsh?), it could be eczema- its difficult for us to guess. Is the scalp red?

Have you tried treating it as fungus and shampooed with Head&Shoulders or any of the likes? You say you use coconut oil which is in fact anti fungal but youre using it for such a short time (20 mins) so it probably doesnt have time to do its job properly.

Are you wearing hats a lot? Dont forget to wash them (and your pillow case) too when youre done treating your dandruff in case it turns out to be fungus.

restless
November 27th, 2013, 05:12 AM
Dubble post >.<

Hootenanny
November 27th, 2013, 08:13 AM
The Theraneem shampoo has Olefin Sulfonate as a major ingredient, and this can be very drying and irritating to the skin. For some people, it is more harsh than sulfates. The DE shampoo has sodium coco sulfate, also harsh. If you are shampooing daily with these, especially in a dry climate (don't know where you are), these ingredients could be a part of the irritation you are experiencing. In terms of your conditioners, the DE conditioner has wax high on the list, and also has a polyquat in there; these things can cause build-up issues for some, as could the 'cone in the HE condish.

If you'd like to give CO-washing another chance, I recommend using a conditioner with as few ingredients as possible. No herbal infusions, no fancy oils, no 'cones: just straight-up plain conditioning agents. VO5 conditioners and Suave conditioners work well, and there are other options available at stores like Sally's, such as Cure Care (the most no-nonsense conditioner I have ever seen; it has something like 5 ingredients). By using a simpler conditioner, you will be able to narrow down what ingredients, if any, are causing your scalp problems.

And please do go get checked by a doctor! :)

Rio040113
November 27th, 2013, 09:13 AM
Coconut oil would help solve a couple of your issues: Including lessening the frizz, treating the dry itchy scalp and headlice (is that why you used the neem?). Warm the coconut oil and massage into your scalp and ends. You can add it to your shampoo, to lessen the harshness too. I'd also shampoo less and see if that helps lessen the itchiness :o


Coconut oil can be drying on some people, so it's not a guaranteed solution. As for lice, I thought olive oil treatment (over a course of one month with scheduled applications) was recommended?

To OP, it's really hard to recommend something. There's just too many things you've tried in a short period of time. BUT. Was there ever a time in your life when your scalp wasn't itchy? And what products were you using then? And if it's always been itchy, I'd recommend getting it checked out too. I'm usually not the kind of person to recommend going to doctors, but if you've always suffered with itchy scalp, it might be best to get it checked out. It could be something in your diet you're allergic to or the opposite - you're missing some vitamins or minerals. Going gluten-free (both shampoo and diet) has solved many people's itchy scalp issues, for example. Other people had success with apple cider vinegar rinses. I also hear fish oil often mentioned as a recommended supplement (to take in, not to rub on your scalp ;)).

Just to clarify, OP said she got checked and was clear of lice :)

Flor
November 27th, 2013, 09:25 AM
^ I know, that's why I directed my first paragraph to Allychan and second was my answer to OP.

Rio040113
November 27th, 2013, 09:50 AM
Coconut oil would help solve a couple of your issues: Including lessening the frizz, treating the dry itchy scalp and headlice (is that why you used the neem?). Warm the coconut oil and massage into your scalp and ends. You can add it to your shampoo, to lessen the harshness too. I'd also shampoo less and see if that helps lessen the itchiness :o


^ I know, that's why I directed my first paragraph to Allychan and second was my answer to OP.

Gotcha :) my bad then ^^

jimnyo
November 27th, 2013, 11:52 AM
First off, I must say it could be worthwhile getting your scalp checked by a dermatologist, to rule out any skin conditions or allergies :)

Now that's been said... I'm not saying it will work for everyone but I used to have a majorly itchy scalp (and a few flakies!) and I found adding a few drops of tea tree oil into my diluted shampoo mix cleared it right up (that was the only thing I changed, so I'm 99% sure it's to thank). Tea tree oil can be irritating to your skin/scalp but usually only if it's applied directly, undiluted or hasn't been diluted enough. Of course some people may be more sensitive to it than others, like with anything really. I used to put anywhere from 3-5 'drops' in 500ml of water (with a squeeze of shampoo). I don't need to use it anymore but I keep it around, just in case :)

And I'm no expert but...

1. Is the dandruff/itching happening b/c of my scalp being dirtier than usual? If so, how am I supposed to 'stretch' it out to a week? Someone told me it gets better after that, but I haven't been able to make it past 3 days!

Possibly. I get itchy sometimes even now if I try to stretch my washes too far. By Day 3 I'm getting a little itchy and a nice light co-wash sorts it out right away. (Before using tea tree I was itching all day every day, freshly washed or not). I'd start by getting your itching and flaking sorted then stretch your washes very slowly. It can help if you use sulphate free shampoo and dilute your shampoo or co-wash. Scritching, Massaging and Preening (SMPing) can help with stretching washes and keeping your scalp clean too.

2. Is CO not really an option for me?

I'd say it's an option for most people, whether it's the best option for you or not might be hard to tell until your scalp is feeling better! I'm a fine hair and love co-washing! Plus this is the first Winter in years that my scalp isn't overly dry (And yet my hair is usually on the greasy side? Go figure :lol:)

3. What products don't have Methylisothiazolinone in them?

I'm sorry, I can't help you too much here but I think AubreyOrganics (http://www.aubreyorganicsuk.co.uk/hair-care-c87) products are free from it... The ingredients for each shampoo/conditioner are listed if you click on them :)

4. I think I need 'cones b/c of the frizz from the color job?

Maybe, maybe not, some peoples hair loves 'cones, others not so much. If you do use 'cones, depending on the type you may need to clarify every so often to avoid build up. Have you tried oils/butters?

Hope something I said helps at all, good luck finding a solution!

Thanks for the help! I will try the TTO drops b/c it occurred to me that maybe when I used the TTO shampoos, there was one of these other ingredients that made me itch, not the TTO, so I'll find a non-suspect ingredient containing product (which is HARD!!) and try adding TTO. I believe the Theraneem and Desert Essences was sulfate free, but I think that was starting to dry me out, so i'm not sure if it's all sulfate free, or the fact that they both don't have 'cones, that is drying me out. I used the coconut oil before the SMT yesterday and as I said earlier, the treatment didn't seem too helpful. In fact, immediately after blow drying, it seemed a bit frizzed, so I had to put some serum on the ends.


Coconut oil would help solve a couple of your issues: Including lessening the frizz, treating the dry itchy scalp and headlice (is that why you used the neem?). Warm the coconut oil and massage into your scalp and ends. You can add it to your shampoo, to lessen the harshness too. I'd also shampoo less and see if that helps lessen the itchiness :o

I tried the coconut oil before the SMT, although not by itself. How would you recommend using it by itself. No, no headlice, just a paranoia about it b/c 1) I have 2 kids in elementary school and it goes around every now and then and 2) my very itchy scalp before using Theraneem contributed to the fear. So the Theraneem helped with what was some psychological itch (just thinking about it now makes me itch, aughhh!!) and what I think was the reaction to the M ingredient (or coco betaine). I said earlier that when I stretched to 3 days, I was pretty good for the first week, but after that, I got the nasty dandruff and really bad itch, so I'm wary of trying to go longer w/o shampooing...thanks for the help!


Coconut oil can be drying on some people, so it's not a guaranteed solution. As for lice, I thought olive oil treatment (over a course of one month with scheduled applications) was recommended?

To OP, it's really hard to recommend something. There's just too many things you've tried in a short period of time. BUT. Was there ever a time in your life when your scalp wasn't itchy? And what products were you using then? And if it's always been itchy, I'd recommend getting it checked out too. I'm usually not the kind of person to recommend going to doctors, but if you've always suffered with itchy scalp, it might be best to get it checked out. It could be something in your diet you're allergic to or the opposite - you're missing some vitamins or minerals. Going gluten-free (both shampoo and diet) has solved many people's itchy scalp issues, for example. Other people had success with apple cider vinegar rinses. I also hear fish oil often mentioned as a recommended supplement (to take in, not to rub on your scalp ;)).

Ooh, this was helpful b/c I was taking fish oil for awhile and I stopped and I wonder if that's affected the dryness of my hair. I stopped being itchy mostly when I used the Theraneem. But then I was starting to see dryness and then even more so with the highlights/ombre, so that's when I started trying everything on here.


I dont recognise any of the products names youre using but Id just like to chime in and say I agree with the people who say you should get your scalp checked, it could be anything. The dandruff can be a sign of fungal infection on the scalp or maybe youre simply just dry thanks to some of the products (maybe the lice shampoo is too harsh?), it could be eczema- its difficult for us to guess. Is the scalp red?

Have you tried treating it as fungus and shampooed with Head&Shoulders or any of the likes? You say you use coconut oil which is in fact anti fungal but youre using it for such a short time (20 mins) so it probably doesnt have time to do its job properly.

Are you wearing hats a lot? Dont forget to wash them (and your pillow case) too when youre done treating your dandruff in case it turns out to be fungus.

All great questions. No, no hats. Yes I tried dandruff shampoos previously for the itch (as I posted earlier, the itch stopped after the Theraneem, mostly) but they didn't help. The dandruff didn't really become an issue until I tried the CO washing for a week and a half, so that's why I don't think it's a fungal issue or eczema. The Theraneem is a natural shampoo, neem oil has been proven in Egypt and Europe to repel/kill lice with a better success rate than TTO and b/c I was having problems w/TTO shampoos itching, I tried this instead (the Gentle Therape) version. I do wonder, which I'm not sure if anyone's answered yet (but I have not finished reading all the replies yet, just answering back as I scroll down), if the fact that I have fine, mostly straight hair, means I will need the 'cones...and therefore sulfates. Any thoughts? And can coco betaine be irritating? Because I tried going sulfate free for several months, which meant almost everything I've used since has coco betaine instead and that's when I really noticed the itching...


The Theraneem shampoo has Olefin Sulfonate as a major ingredient, and this can be very drying and irritating to the skin. For some people, it is more harsh than sulfates. The DE shampoo has sodium coco sulfate, also harsh. If you are shampooing daily with these, especially in a dry climate (don't know where you are), these ingredients could be a part of the irritation you are experiencing. In terms of your conditioners, the DE conditioner has wax high on the list, and also has a polyquat in there; these things can cause build-up issues for some, as could the 'cone in the HE condish.

If you'd like to give CO-washing another chance, I recommend using a conditioner with as few ingredients as possible. No herbal infusions, no fancy oils, no 'cones: just straight-up plain conditioning agents. VO5 conditioners and Suave conditioners work well, and there are other options available at stores like Sally's, such as Cure Care (the most no-nonsense conditioner I have ever seen; it has something like 5 ingredients). By using a simpler conditioner, you will be able to narrow down what ingredients, if any, are causing your scalp problems.

And please do go get checked by a doctor! :)

Thank you, this is SUPER helpful! I didn't know that about olefin sulfonate and sodium coco sulfate (they weren't on the list of potential itch-inducers)! I am in SoCal, so yes, it is dry, so this may be the problem with those. I don't think Suave will work b/c of the M ingredient, but I'll check out V05 and I think White Rain was also mentioned and if not, I'll try to track down Cure Care.

Sighhhh...I never had these problems when I was younger...I hate getting old. :D

oh one last question: i read that some posters got frizzy w/honey and others got frizzy w/aloe, both of which i used in SMT. is there a particular hair type that gets frizzy w/one or the other or both? or just luck of the draw?

Soltimus
November 27th, 2013, 12:55 PM
Just a quick note: the Cocamidopropyl Betaine in your Italian Grape Shampoo is a skin irritant. You find it in a lot of soaps, shampoos etc. for some reason. If you have sensitive skin or a sensitive scalp it might be worth staying away from it.

jimnyo
November 28th, 2013, 01:06 AM
yes, when all this started, the first thing i suspected was the coco betaine and i'm still trying to find a way to isolate if this is the cause of my itching. but so many things i have have this AND sulfates or this AND other ingredients on the itching list. so it's hard to figure out.

Flor
November 28th, 2013, 02:57 AM
Have you considered natural shampoo bars? Those are basically saponified oils (plus sometimes herbs and essential oils) and nothing else. You'll have to do acidic rinses instead of using conditioner with shampoo bars as well, so you'll be able to both see if ACV rinses calm down your scalp and if your condition is caused by some harsh ingredients or it's coming from within. Just make sure to get real deal all-natural bars (there's a whole thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74) on them).

jimnyo
November 28th, 2013, 02:51 PM
no, i've not tried shampoo bars and don't know where to get them, except for LUSH. but going there makes me want to eat all the soap b/c it all smells so good, so i try not to go there, haha.

i also want to stay away from anything that is extra work (that SMT treatment was way overboard for me). i've got 2 young kids and at this stage of life, unfortunately, do not have the luxury to spend so much time and effort on my hair. :( in fact, part of the reason why CO kind of appealed to me was 1) skipping days meant less time washing my hair 2) CO meant less money, hopefully, on hair products. unfortunately, i now have about 6 conditioners in my shower, most of which do not work and only half of them were cheap. HAHA. but maybe i'll check out those bars. thanks!

jimnyo
December 5th, 2013, 01:00 PM
OK, here's an update, in case anyone else runs into similar products:

1) i'm pretty sure the dandruff WITH itching was caused by trying to stretch too long b/t washes and possibly not rinsing well enough. i went from 'poo/conditioning everyday to co'ing or alternating co'ing/cwc on wednesday and sundays. so now i'm trying alternating those every other day and haven't seen any dandruff since. however, i'm also back to seeming pretty oily on day 2, whereas i think i was getting to a point w/stretching that day 2 wasn't so greasy looking. :(

2) i'm 99% sure that my past itching issues prior to the dandruff (and maybe even after) are due to the ingredient Methylisothiazolinone. this has been in EVERYTHING i've had problems with...which is almost every product, b/c apparently it is IN almost every product!! why??!? so annoying. anyway, that is why i've had terrible itching w/suave coconut, i think. i finally found the v05 herbal escapes freesia doesn't have it (even though other v05 products do?) and it seems to work well w/o causing itching. only drawback is i don't love the scent like suave's coconut. bummer.

3) i also think a big factor w/co'ing is the rinsing. so the good news w/co is that the conditioner is cheap. the bad news is that i have to rinse so much, i've tripled my time in the shower, which means i'm probably spending more money on water bills as well--this is definitely not as eco friendly as i had hoped it would be, LOL. i tried jojoba oiling last night before my cwc this morning w/the v05, hugo naturals tea tree & lavender poo, DE italian grape conditioner, but that meant a LOT of product and rinsing to get the oil out. i tried the hugo 'poo b/c of the previous poster's suggestion that sodium coco sulfate in the DE grape shampoo might be too harsh. so far everything feels great, but it's only day 1 :)

(ingredients: Aqua/Water/Eau, Lauryl Glucoside, Sodium Cocoamphoacetate, Glycerin, Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate, Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate, Melaleuca Altemifolia (Tea Tree) Leaf Oil, Hydrolyzed Quinoa, Copaifera Officinalis (Balsam Copaiba) Resin, Bertholletia Excelsa (Brazil Nut) Seed Oil, Arnica Montana (Montana Flower) Extract, Tocopherol, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Oil, Citric Acid, Lonicera Caprifolium (Honeysuckle) Flower Extract, Lonicera Japonica (HoneySuckle) Flower Extract, Gluconolactone, Sodium Benzoate)

so i think i will continue trying to alternate co w/v05 and cwc with v05/hugo naturals/de italian grape conditioner. i also have the loreal everpure conditioner that i may try out to see if it works too, after the v05 on the co. i'm not sure jojoba oiling is doing much for me, so i may skip that and save myself the extensive rinsing.

sorry this is so long, but i hope this can help someone--thanks for all the help!

jimnyo
December 5th, 2013, 01:10 PM
sorry, first line should've read: "OK, here's an update, in case anyone else runs into similar PROBLEMS". i can't seem to edit my posts.