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Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 01:16 PM
Unless I experience some kind of miracle, I'm ready to take it off. I'm fed up. Help me keep my hair, LHC.

My hair, as of a few minutes ago, is 41". I cut about 6" off in March because the ends were getting so ratty. Now my hair doesn't tend to stay up in the hairstick buns I wear daily. Rarely I'll braid it and put an elastic on the end, but generally I avoid elastics like the hair-breaking plague they are.

My hair type is large curls when short, waves when long, and loves to tangle. I'm talkin' "You killed my father, prepare to die" 'tangle'. I'd say medium thickness, but lots of it. It's mostly uncoloured save for a few streaks done in 2006 with a temporary dye which appear to be long gone.

That same year, I used a new type of Pantene shampoo that made my scalp rebel and ever since I have endured eczema-like scalp madness, although my doctor dismissed it as nothing serious. It certainly is annoying and unsightly, as well as itchy as all hell and embarrassing.

I use Pantene conditioners because nothing but cones will tame my ferocious scottish hair, and have been using Head & Shoulders shampoos in an only faintly successful attempt to placate my scalp. My hair hates Garnier products with a rage that would make the Germanic tribes in the time of the Roman Empire tremble.

I was given a tube of Burt's Bees Avocado-and-something (nettle, maybe?) by my mother for my scalp, but I can't get the bloody stuff ON my scalp because my hair is so heavy. I have to labouriously part my hair in 1 cm sections at a time to brush the stuff onto my scalp, which takes far too long and is beyond frustrating.

This is usually my problem in general, that trying to get anything onto my scalp is like heaving hanks o' lead up off it to get shampoo, etc. onto my scalp. I've tried to bundle my hair out of the way to keep it from getting wet and thus only go after the dirty part, but that never seems to work and my scalp is bellowing "UNCLE!" in no time as my dampening hair quadruples in weight.

As a result, I don't wash my hair more than 3 times or so in two weeks, because it's like trying to scale flipping Mt. Everest with wrestling tigers strapped to my back. I usually emerge 45min-1 hr later, scalp aching, light-headed, nails broken, arms tired, and madder than a wet hen with homicidal urges.

I've used the CWC method since I heard about it on this forum back when I joined, and couldn't live without it, but I'm tired of using cone products and have come to admit they give me split ends. I'd like to use natural/homemade products but a) have next to no money, b) am dirt poor and c) can't afford to eat avocados let alone put them on my hair.

Also, I live in Oh My God Get Me Out Of Here, Texas, which is between We Shoot Strangers, TX and You Only Wish This Was The Middle Of Nowhere, TX , so my supply of 'natural' ingredients is the internet. It's hot here, and I'm tired of having to wrestle my hair out from under my husband when I'm tossing and turning at night, and my hair is constantly trying to climb into my nose when I sleep, I think in retribution for leaving the temperate climes of Canada.

There is so much information on here about various natural options that I'm feeling overwhelmed and would really appreciate some direction/suggestions. I should also mention that my scalp is attempting to out-produce the oil fields of the middle east, in addition to the flakes. Yay.

Help me Long Hair Community, you're my only hope!

ETA: The only ingredient that I can't use is lavender, which gives me headaches. Otherwise, if it's cheap and doesn't require evisceration of something that protests to procure it, I'm game.

Kittee
September 6th, 2008, 01:28 PM
*hugs* LOL your post made me smile. (Not because of your situation mind you but the way you tell it!)

I am in the SAME BOAT as you my friend. Very simliar sounding hair types and issues. I'm currently considering taking about 3 inches off tonight hehe. My ends are also very ratty looking at the moment and my hair also has that "you killed my father prepare to die tangle " attitude!

annielauri
September 6th, 2008, 01:47 PM
I am definitely no hair expert, as shown by my newness here, but my scalp has never been happier than it is now since I started doing vinegar rinses. After using my poo bar, I rinse with 2 tbsps. of white vinegar in 4 cups of water. I kind of scrub it in like shampoo and then leave it in for the rest of my shower. I do a fairly longish rinse switching to cooler water. I have been recently oiling my ends while damp too and that seems to help them not be so snarly.

Xanthippe
September 6th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Can you get a squeeze bottle with a narrow tip so you can just slip it onto your scalp and squeeze the solution out? Something kinda like the plastic bottle for this (http://www.sephora.com/browse/product.jhtml?id=P147937)? I use that dry shampoo and the tip makes it easy to put directly on my scalp.

I think the important thing right now is to make your scalp happy. For me, my scalp feels a lot better after a Brown Sugar Scalp Scrub (mix conditioner with brown sugar and scrub scalp thoroughly and rinse it all out - it's like exfoliating your scalp), but if it is difficult to reach your scalp, this might not help you. I hope you figure something out :flower:


Also, I live in Oh My God Get Me Out Of Here, Texas, which is between We Shoot Strangers, TX and You Only Wish This Was The Middle Of Nowhere, TX

:lol: I think I've been there on vacation a few times.

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 02:14 PM
I think we'll make a trip to Walmart and see if we can find something like this: http://www.target.com/12-oz-Squeeze-Bottles-pk-Clear/dp/B000QJBNII/sr=1-1/qid=1220731316/ref=sr_1_1/602-9905081-1607802?ie=UTF8&index=target&rh=k%3Asqueeze%20bottle&page=1 because that sounds like a great suggestion, thanks.

I'd like to make up a few different solutions, I was thinking maybe something like an apple cider vinegar rinse and brown sugar-and-something scalp scrub? I'm out of conditioner, which prompted me to start this thread.

If I was to mix the brown sugar with something, what would it be? Egg? Honey? Agave Syrup? EVOO? I'm clueless. I think we have a can of coconut milk in the pantry ... I need a conditioner recipe, as well.

I'm so lost. And harassed by errant hairs. If the 'electric socket licker' look ever comes into fashion, I'm set.

Samikha
September 6th, 2008, 02:41 PM
If you're in a pinch you can make one of those squeeze bottles with just a regular plastic bag (not the ones you get at stores, but the sort you would store food in) and a very small hole in one corner - my mom would do this sometimes when making creamy cakes, if my memory serves me right.

You can mix the sugar with some sort of oil if you don't use conditioner, I should think. I used to do this with salt and coconut oil but it hasn't seemed necessariy of late. Use EVOO if that's what you have, though it might take some shampooing and/or fingerpad scrubbing to get it out.

Finally, hang in there! If you decide to chop, then chop and don't feel bad for it. But if you don't want to chop, and it sounds like that is the case, then I'm sure you will solve this somehow. I've seen a lot of people praising ACV for avoiding tangles, hopefully you will join them. And I see you still have your sense of humour:D So the battle is not completely lost, nor shall it be!

xrosiex
September 6th, 2008, 02:51 PM
I really dont have any advice to offer. Whats been said already sound like a great idea. But I have to tell you I like the way you express yourself. Your post is great and made me giggle. Not because of your problems with your hair but the way you told it.:flower:

alinakathryn
September 6th, 2008, 02:57 PM
I'm sorry you are so frustrated. Have you thought about going for CO? I now that suave and Vo5 are very inexpensive and 'cone free. Also, for your scalp, if you have a sallies close by you could get one of these http://www.sallybeauty.com/Wella-Color-Bottle/SBS-800749,default,pd.html?cgid=Supp02. I don't remember where I read it but you could mix up some brown sugar and your conditioner in the bottle and use the tip in the shower to get it to your scalp then massage. It may give you some relief from the itchy scalp.

Also for your hair not staying in the sticks, you could try what others have suggested for thick hair, do the style with half of your hair then do it again with the other half. Also maybe if you braided your hair before bed your dh wouldn't roll on it. Maybe you can use an old pair of pantyhose and cut the toe off (see the scunci hosiery thread in the swap area for better directions) for a hair friendly way to keep the braid in.

Hope some of this helps
Newbie Sarah

julya
September 6th, 2008, 02:57 PM
If I want to access my scalp, I like to make loose pigtail braids, tuck them under the bra strap, and I wash bending forward at the sink. And by loose, I mean that I start the braids at about shoulder level. That leaves enough slack to really get my scalp clean, and I don't have to wet all my hair. I used an empty dish soap container (rinsed out, of course) to apply stuff to my scalp. I guess that I am too cheap to spring for a bottle designed for the hair.

Good luck, and you have my sympathies about the tangles. My hair behaves like that too.

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Back from Walmart; if you aren't fussy you can get a set of Ketchup and Mustard squeeze bottles for $1.50 in the 'Kitchen Gadgets' section. I got two, so provided I label them, I now have 4 bottles ready for concoctions.

The hubby just left to mow someone else's lawn (and this isn't a euphemism, for once) so I have his pristine kitchen free for whatever mad scientist experiments I want to commit.

In the house, I have:
EVOO
Eggs
Honey
Agave Syrup
Brown Sugar
Apple Cide Vinegar
Coconut Milk
Hubby's Super Expensive Tea (not recommended for reasons of invoking marital discord)
Regular tea
Coffee Grounds (easy to procure)
Milk
An Aloe Plant
Assorted Box Of Tea Of Questionable Vintage (including jasmine, green, white, and various things for sore throats, but not including Chamomile)

So, any recommendations?

I also have kosher salt, a pepper plant, and lots of tomatoes, but they seem less advised for topical use.

And thanks to everyone who's replied so far, I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

wintersun99
September 6th, 2008, 03:33 PM
How about henna for your scalp issues? This was the OMG solution to any/all scalp issues I've ever had...

http://www.mehandi.com/shop/headlice/index.html

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 03:38 PM
How about henna for your scalp issues? This was the OMG solution to any/all scalp issues I've ever had...

http://www.mehandi.com/shop/headlice/index.html

I'd be willing to do so but don't want to dye/colour it.

wintersun99
September 6th, 2008, 03:47 PM
Totally understandable, just throwing it out there. Looks like you got some great stuff to try, in your recent shopping spree... I hope you are able to find something that works... I would think that a very mild shampoo (or shampoo bar) on the scalp-only (I would ditch any/all harsh shampoo) followed by an ACV rinse and coconut oil on your ends will do some good... I'm keeping my fingers crossed, for ya :)

ETA: oops, that was a list of items on hand, not a shopping spree... read that wrong :)

ChatoyantLocks
September 6th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Have you tried coconut oil? That helped with my tangling problems enormously! I just put a small amount on the length of my hair after I wash it.

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Totally understandable, just throwing it out there. Looks like you got some great stuff to try, in your recent shopping spree... I hope you are able to find something that works... I would think that a very mild shampoo (or shampoo bar) on the scalp-only (I would ditch any/all harsh shampoo) followed by an ACV rinse and coconut oil on your ends will do some good... I'm keeping my fingers crossed, for ya :)

I didn't buy anything except the bottles and the EVOO because we were out. As for the henna, it looks like some people avoid having a colouring effect by allowing the henna to sit for a long time before applying it?

Also, where do people buy their coconut oil from?

ChatoyantLocks
September 6th, 2008, 04:00 PM
Also, where do people buy their coconut oil from?

Most grocery stores should have it. It is usually used for cooking.

dorothea-brooke
September 6th, 2008, 04:09 PM
I second the coconut oil, and will also throw in shea butter. Now, it is true that it is expensive, and you might not be able to procure it easily in Where's the Next Watering Hole, TX, but if you can find some and are willing to invest, I can tell you that it A.) lasts forever (you need only the tinest bit on your ends; and B.) is a miracle worker.

Barring that, I suggest that you come back to Canada. :flower:

Scrofula
September 6th, 2008, 04:28 PM
For the conditioning properties of Henna without the colouring ( unless your hair is very fair or silvered) try Cassia, mix it into a mudpack slap it on, do something else for an hour then rinse like you've never rinsed before.

Gives me sleekness like I've never known, admittedly my hair is uber short right now but I have done waist length hair of a similar sounding Celtic disposition so I feel your pain!

Cassia should be gettable easily online, I'm in the UK so can't recommend a supplier on your side of the pond, sorry.

Good luck in finding a happy solution.

annielauri
September 6th, 2008, 04:32 PM
I use coconut oil, I also use it as a moisturizer and to wash my face with. Plus, you can eat it and it's suppose to curb your appetite. It heals open cuts, scratches, burns etc. very quickly also.

lora410
September 6th, 2008, 04:43 PM
have you tried clarifying yet? Cones can build up. My hair on cones was just like your years ago where I would de-tangle and 2 seconds later tangle back up. I am now cone free and clarify mixing baking soda in with some shampoo

anna1850
September 6th, 2008, 05:14 PM
I just want to second the ACV rinse. It's completely solved all my scalp problems. I think I was in the same boat you are in now (but with much shorter hair) before I joined LHC. I wouldn't reccomend cutting your hair off as you'll still end up with the same hair just much shorter. I had terrible flaky scalp issues and always had to use anti-dandruff shampoos until I tried ACV rinses. Now I can just use a regular shampoo, my scalp is absolutely perfect and my hair is much happier without all the sulphates that are in the anti-dandruff shampoos. Best hair related thing I ever did (well, that or stop brushing out my curls). You can definitely rinse it off the length of your hair if you don't like the smell and there's always citric acid as an odourless alternative. But ACV is amazing.

I'd also recommend switching from Pantene if you can because the general consensus seems to be that it's not very good. Although if it works for you then it's OK (I've given up cones and can't tell the difference but everyone's hair is different).

Although, I think it's best to try one thing at a time. I know when I joined I tried a bunch of stuff and couldn't work out what was good or not.

Good luck :)

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 05:36 PM
I just want to second the ACV rinse. It's completely solved all my scalp problems. I think I was in the same boat you are in now (but with much shorter hair) before I joined LHC. I wouldn't reccomend cutting your hair off as you'll still end up with the same hair just much shorter. I had terrible flaky scalp issues and always had to use anti-dandruff shampoos until I tried ACV rinses. Now I can just use a regular shampoo, my scalp is absolutely perfect and my hair is much happier without all the sulphates that are in the anti-dandruff shampoos. Best hair related thing I ever did (well, that or stop brushing out my curls). You can definitely rinse it off the length of your hair if you don't like the smell and there's always citric acid as an odourless alternative. But ACV is amazing.

I'd also recommend switching from Pantene if you can because the general consensus seems to be that it's not very good. Although if it works for you then it's OK (I've given up cones and can't tell the difference but everyone's hair is different).

Although, I think it's best to try one thing at a time. I know when I joined I tried a bunch of stuff and couldn't work out what was good or not.

Good luck :)

I'm totally keen on ditching Pantene, the only reason I used it was because it tamed my hair better than any of the other store-bought options.

I am also eager to ditch my shampoo, it's just that I could use some guidance on what to use instead. What else will remove oil?

So far, I'm planning on making an EVOO + Brown sugar scalp scrub - anything else I should be adding to the mix?

Also going to try an AVC rinse. Should this be my 'conditioner' or should I do an EVOO or maybe coconut milk soak as a conditioner and then rinse with AVC?

Should I mix the EVOO with the coconut milk for better consistency? Would adding egg help?

noelgirl
September 6th, 2008, 06:03 PM
I just have to second whoever suggested trying CO washing. I have a very sensitive scalp - some conventional shampoos give me bleeding sores on my scalp, which I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to do. Going sulfate-free helped somewhat, but CO makes my scalp even happier than even the gentlest shampoos. Also, it helps with tangles, plus it's cheap - V05 Kiwi Lime conditioner is a favorite for this.

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 06:29 PM
I just have to second whoever suggested trying CO washing. I have a very sensitive scalp - some conventional shampoos give me bleeding sores on my scalp, which I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to do. Going sulfate-free helped somewhat, but CO makes my scalp even happier than even the gentlest shampoos. Also, it helps with tangles, plus it's cheap - V05 Kiwi Lime conditioner is a favorite for this.

The reason why I'm staying away from CO wash is that it's already way too hard to get to my scalp through all the hair, and CO doesn't have the oomph to clean my scalp without vigourous scrubbing, and trying to vigourously scrub through my heavy hair is just not happening.

I need something that will emulsify the oil/goo I want to get rid of.

kwaniesiam
September 6th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Since you don't want to color your hair, maybe try cassia? Also the vinegar rinse on your hair would probably help a lot as well as clarifying. Hope you find something that works, and remember to give it at least the two week rule before chopping!

Teazel
September 6th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Always, always use a conditioner. I would only risk doing without one if my hair were in perfect health. The best ones I've found are the cheap-as-chips VO5 range, especially Sun Kissed Raspberry (which is no longer available in NZ; my hair and I are in mourning). For a home-made conditioner, you might like to try eggs. You could just beat one up thoroughly and slap it on (or just use the yolk, that's the conditioning bit), or try this recipe, which I found very moisturising:

1/8 cup warm water
1 teaspoon honey
1 egg
1 egg yolk
2 teaspoons aloe vera gel
About a ¼ teaspoon almond oil

Secondly, if you've been using Pantene you really need to use a paint-stripper clarifying shampoo before you go any further, to be sure you're free of buildup. Ironically, Pantene produce an excellent clarifying shampoo. Use it all over your hair and immediately kiss it better with conditioner.

I have a flaky scalp due to dermatitis, and scrub it with brown sugar mixed with almond oil. EVOO is too thick and difficult to remove, for me, but I'd use it if I had nothing else. Mixing the brown sugar with conditioner or whatever works too, but not as well because the sugar dissolves before I've finished with it.

Deep oiling is great, with almond oil, coconut oil, whatever. Best if left overnight. I wouldn't add anything to it.

I hope to see much more of your posts on LHC, by the way - I love your style! :rockerdud

ETA: Forgot to say, do try a braid at night. It'll keep it away from your man and keep you cooler. On that note, putting your hair up in a damp bun is wonderfully refreshing in hot weather, and it's moisturising, too!

Oh! and a tablespoon of honey added to your conditioner is a miracle-worker. And find some gentle hair-ties. And if hairsticks aren't doing it for you, use pins - not vicious bobby-pins, but the open sort like Amish pins, the bigger the better.

I think I've finished now. :D

Dolly
September 6th, 2008, 06:51 PM
The reason why I'm staying away from CO wash is that it's already way too hard to get to my scalp through all the hair, and CO doesn't have the oomph to clean my scalp without vigourous scrubbing, and trying to vigourously scrub through my heavy hair is just not happening.

I need something that will emulsify the oil/goo I want to get rid of.


What about baking soda? Some of us clarify with a baking soda paste to remove cone buildup.....it may help remove the oil.

And, I agree with the vinegar rinse idea too.....


Also, regarding your scalp.....my son has severe eczema, and about 2 years ago, he had a break out on his scalp. I used honey to take care of it. Worked it in, let it sit while he took his bath, and then washed it out with a gentle, natural soap. We did this for about a week, and it cleared up. It may help, because honey is a natural humectant, and an anti-microbial.

anna1850
September 6th, 2008, 07:40 PM
I'm totally keen on ditching Pantene, the only reason I used it was because it tamed my hair better than any of the other store-bought options.

I am also eager to ditch my shampoo, it's just that I could use some guidance on what to use instead. What else will remove oil?

...

Also going to try an AVC rinse. Should this be my 'conditioner' or should I do an EVOO or maybe coconut milk soak as a conditioner and then rinse with AVC?

Well, obviously bear in mind that different things work for different people, but I just use a very diluted shampoo on my scalp, followed by a conditioner and then finally the ACV + water which I leave on my head for about 3 minutes before sort of rinsing (but not too well as I don't want to rinse it all out).

So, in my opinion you need:
Shampoo or something else to clean scalp (and possibly hair a bit)
Conditioner or something else for moisture
ACV rinse to restore acidity to scalp (so no more flakes)

You could try a shampoo bar which tend to be more natural (eg CV bars (http://www.chagrinvalleysoapandcraft.com/shambar.htm)) but they don't work for everyone and I've never got round to trying them myself or maybe shikakai but again I've never tried it.

Conditioning you'll either need a conditioner or some kind of substitute, or you could do something like an SMT where you mix a bit of conditioner with other stuff like aloe vera gel and honey.

The ACV rinse is not conditioning, the shampoo and conditioner I use are ph-balanced which sounds hair friendly but the scalp should be slightly acidic naturally and I think the reason ACV works is it returns your scalp to the right ph. Be careful not to get it in your eyes though! It can sting.

The sugar scrub may not work for you if you have problems getting through to the scalp I would think. But I don't know.

I tend to think it might be easier just to try a shampoo and conditioner (eg VO5 or something is quite cheap and very popular with US users) and water down the shampoo and don't use it on the length. This is what I do and I tried a few other things at first like CO and stuff and I might experiment more eventually but a simple shampoo and conditioner works well for me.

Also, could you explain what exactly you mean by 'taming' your hair? Wave/curl definition? Weighing it down? Moisturising? etc.
If we can diagnose the problem then the suggestions will be better for you :)

Darkhorse1
September 6th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Ah, Canada has it's own set of problems ;)

A few thoughts--I've suffered from the same scalp condition. Have you tried a zinc based shampoo? Head and Shoulders has a new line, which is PH balanced and has really helped the scaley/flaky stuff. Any zinc product will help. Also, trying an ACV rinse will restore PH as well.

Also, if your hair is looking parched, try olive oiling it. Now, you'll need a shampoo to remove the oil--I used Herbal Essence Degunkfy and it really helped. I wet my hair, placed olive oil from half way to the ends, then shampooed twice. I then conditioned with Pantene Daily Moisture renewel (ends only) and a cold water rinse to finish. My hair was left soft and silky. I did have a few mishaps with the olive oil, but I will be doing it again soon as I work outdoors and my hair looks a bit parched again.

Shampoos that don't aggrivate scalp conditions are hard to find. I found John Frieda's Brilliant Brunette shampoo mild for my scalp, but others have found it drying. I know many people here love Dove shampoo--it's horrid for me, but it might work for you. Look for products that are PH balanced. I have a great dandruff shampoo from a Beauty Supply Outlet--not sure you have one in Texas? You may be able to find it in a salon, and it's really nice--better than Head and Shoulders.

Good luck!

Lamb
September 6th, 2008, 08:16 PM
I find getting to my scalp is a problem only if I wash my hair standing up in the shower. If I bend over the tub, it's a LOT easier. You may want to try that. :flower:
Also, the "TX" names in your post (and dorothea's) made me :misskim:!

ktani
September 6th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Iphinoe

You have a colourful and great way of expressing yourself IMO, and you made me laugh at the same time I felt your pain.

Here is a thread that may help you.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=11379

The videos - all interesting IMO, contain recipes with most the ingredients that you have in your kitchen.

If you have grown your hair to 41 inches, you are used to it being long and it is part of your lifestyle.

You may be more comfortable at a shorter length but I do not believe that you need to do anything drastic.

The person who created the videos had hair and scalp problems similar to what you describe.

She has had success with her recipes.

I suggest taking it slowly, one recipe at a time.

I wish you luck and admire your ability to maintain your sense of humour throughout this.

Never lose that.

Pierre
September 6th, 2008, 08:25 PM
My hair type is large curls when short, waves when long, and loves to tangle. I'm talkin' "You killed my father, prepare to die" 'tangle'.
See my sig ;)


Also, I live in Oh My God Get Me Out Of Here, Texas, which is between We Shoot Strangers, TX and You Only Wish This Was The Middle Of Nowhere, TX , so my supply of 'natural' ingredients is the internet. It's hot here, and I'm tired of having to wrestle my hair out from under my husband when I'm tossing and turning at night, and my hair is constantly trying to climb into my nose when I sleep, I think in retribution for leaving the temperate climes of Canada.
I strongly suggest that you put your hair up at night. It may take a few months to tell the difference, but it is a big difference. I use a Buff, a sort of cloth cylinder which can be used in various ways; I bundle the hair on top (if it's loose; if braided I leave it as is) and put the Buff on so that it goes around my chin and crown and is slightly loose at the nape.

Your hairtype sounds like 2c/3a, which is close to mine, so what works for me may work for you. I wash with only water, using a comb to detangle while water runs down it, and snipping off any tangles that are at the ends (if more than 10 mm from the end, I try to untangle first). I oil with jojoba when it's damp if I washed it, or before I leave if not (I added some EOs, so it's also my perfume). I had to clarify with baking soda a few weeks ago after returning from the beach. And I henna every several weeks (if your hair is dark, it won't affect the color much).


There is so much information on here about various natural options that I'm feeling overwhelmed and would really appreciate some direction/suggestions. I should also mention that my scalp is attempting to out-produce the oil fields of the middle east, in addition to the flakes. Yay.
Except when I clarified, my scalp produces very little oil. The jojoba tells it "there's enough oil, you don't need to make any".

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 08:25 PM
1/8 cup warm water
1 teaspoon honey
1 egg
1 egg yolk
2 teaspoons aloe vera gel
About a ¼ teaspoon almond oil

Secondly, if you've been using Pantene you really need to use a paint-stripper clarifying shampoo before you go any further, to be sure you're free of buildup. Ironically, Pantene produce an excellent clarifying shampoo. Use it all over your hair and immediately kiss it better with conditioner.

I have a flaky scalp due to dermatitis, and scrub it with brown sugar mixed with almond oil. EVOO is too thick and difficult to remove, for me, but I'd use it if I had nothing else. Mixing the brown sugar with conditioner or whatever works too, but not as well because the sugar dissolves before I've finished with it.

I hope to see much more of your posts on LHC, by the way - I love your style! :rockerdud


Thanks for the recipe. The only oils I've got right now are the EVOO, some VO, peanut oil, and sesame oil. Well, I think we have some bacon drippings, but to be honest I'd rather not smell like pork rinds, potato chips, or wonton soup for that matter. Not that I think the hubby would mind; you know what they say about men being attracted to food scents ...

Speaking of, I just cracked up said hubby and was relieved of my beverage when I wondered aloud if combining baking soda + AVC rinse would result "in a science experiment, right?" I claim the heat.

So do I do a baking soda (+ water, I promise) rinse to clarify the cones out of my hair first and foremost, and then maybe a conditioner of honey, water, egg, and oil? I was thinking I could put it on my ends while I did a honey + brown sugar + warm water scrub on my scalp.

Then follow with the AVC after all the baking soda has been thoroughly washed out, of course. ;)

ETA: Oop, new posts since I replied.

justgreen
September 6th, 2008, 08:40 PM
Have you tried diluting your shampoo? I've been doing dilution for almost three years now and nothing beats it in my book. Once I got my scalp calmed down, which seems to be half your problem, I'm finding that I can use ALMOST any shampoo, diluted. I use 1 tablespoon of shampoo in about three ounces of water in one of those nozzle bottles, shake it well (with your finger on the tip) and you'll have all the lather you need and can get it down on your scalp very easily.

When my scalp hairline gets eczema-like ickie itchy yucky, before I shampoo, I apply about 10-12 drops of Moonchaser's oil blend in really well, using my fingernails, lightly scratching to help loosen up the gunkies. Then when I shampoo, it just washes it all away.

As for your tangles, I agree with the clarifying. I've been using a Suave clarifying shampoo, about once a month. I don't use many cones, if any, but product can build up over time also. If you have hard water, it can cause troubles too. I have HORRID hard well water, so once I finish rinsing after washing, I do a final rinse with about 12 ounces of distilled water. This helps sheet the minerals off the hair that would be left behind to adher once the well water started to evaporate.

Good luck and I hope you don't chop!

a12345
September 6th, 2008, 08:50 PM
My hair used to be addicted to cones, they were the only thing that kept my hair from turning into a big snarly frizzy mess. I also used to use Head and Shoulders to control a flaky, oily scalp. Then I decided I wasn't satisfied with slathering chemicals on my head so I started trying other shampoos/conditioners. The only shampoos/conditioners that have consistently worked for me are the Jason Naturals ones. I have tried poo bars, WO, and a variety of the V05 and Suave conditioners that get good reviews here and my hair hated all of it! I think you could probably order them off the internet, though I understand that you probably want to save as much $ as possible. I wholeheartedly endorse the ketchup bottle method of getting stuff actually on your scalp. It sounds like your scalp might actually be dried out, since it is both producing lots of oil and flaking. When I switched to natural products and got onto a CO and CWC every 3rd wash or so schedule, my hair improved dramatically. No more scalp problems - at all - and a great improvement in tangles, too. Oiling your scalp might actually help it to produce less oil (though there will probably be a nasty adjustment period) and to also be less flaky.
Best of luck!

Nevermore
September 6th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Your post was hilariously phrased. Sorry to hear that you're having trouble though. I'd try COing, braiding at night (if you don't already, if you do, try folding the braid in half so it's not so likely to creep beneath your husband in the night) and tying it with a piece of ribbon. I can commiserate on the scalp thing, I shampooed in early August after an encounter with ringworm, since I thought the shampoo would do more for my continued lack thereof than CO, haaaaaaaa. Well, I didn't get ringworm, but my scalp is still recovering. It got instantly flakey and bumpy and generally bad. It had been nice and smooth before :(

There's some cheap cone-filled conditioners, look for some in the White Rain, VO5 and Suave lines or the generics of more expensive ones. COing saved my hair and scalp before, and scalp washing with CO might help you keep your scalp clean without having to deal with super heavy wet hair, http://www.castlemountaindesigns.com/techniques/scalp_washing.htm that link shows how one of the members here keeps her hair dry and just washes her scalp.

I hope you find some new techniques or products so that you don't have to cut.

justgreen
September 6th, 2008, 09:02 PM
Also, if you are having that much trouble with sleeping, have you tried an upside down braid? Just tip your head over, start a braid on top of your head. Once you finish and turn your head right side up, the braid will gently flop over and it is much easier to deal with because it stays on top of your pillow.

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 09:50 PM
So, in my opinion you need:
Shampoo or something else to clean scalp (and possibly hair a bit)
Conditioner or something else for moisture
ACV rinse to restore acidity to scalp (so no more flakes)

Also, could you explain what exactly you mean by 'taming' your hair? Wave/curl definition? Weighing it down? Moisturising? etc.
If we can diagnose the problem then the suggestions will be better for you :)


Definitely agree on your assessment of what I need. I will still attempt a scrub, because while having rapidly regenerating skin is great for garnering offensive comments about "marrying young" from people several years my junior, it means I have to exfoliate frequently. I use fancypants organic all-natural face products with great results, so I'd like to take a similar tack with my scalp.

I'd say that I want my hair to be smoother, without frizz or split ends. It can wave/curl/do whatever it wants, I want to be liberated from getting my 'halo' petted when my hair dries. And for the overall softness, especially of the ends, to be improved. Also, for the first 24 hrs after I wash my hair, I get the kind of jaw-dropping triangle head only possible with hair as long as mine. It's like having elbow warmers in the desert.


I find getting to my scalp is a problem only if I wash my hair standing up in the shower. If I bend over the tub, it's a LOT easier. You may want to try that. :flower:

That's how I wash it now, I wash the crown/back of the head standing up, and wash the front half bending over, but it's still a struggle to get through the hair. I have a hand held shower so it makes rinsing/wetting easier, but it's still hard on my neck/scalp with all the weight.

The squeeze bottles should make knifing through the hostile terrain much easier. I used to braid my hair at night but I noticed I seemed to get a lot of breakage at higher lengths than normal, like the hair was being scrubbed by my constant tossing and turning. I'll try the upside down braid.

ktani
September 6th, 2008, 10:00 PM
Iphinoe

2 other things to consider.

1. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=476

2. a satin acetate pillowcase to sleep on - you can make one fairly easily.

Iphinoe
September 6th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Iphinoe

2 other things to consider.

1. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=476

2. a satin acetate pillowcase to sleep on - you can make one fairly easily.

I would have never thought to try catnip. My grocery list is getting stranger by the second, now it's just a matter of trying to track the items down. I think the most exotic pet store we have down here is a Petsmart. Thank goodness for the internet. I'm excited at the prospect of committing blaspheme in the hubby's food processor.

Has anyone tried adding oregano oil to a scalp treatment? It seems like something you would need to be careful with, but might be helpful for scalp issues.

Also, I'm flattered by those who are entertained by my posting style, but it's an illusion- I only write like this when I'm annoyed. Otherwise, I am mannerly out of habit, like learning how to control your bladder; a struggle when you first try to master it and then impossible to abandon later without unpredictable results.

ktani
September 6th, 2008, 10:42 PM
I would have never thought to try catnip. My grocery list is getting stranger by the second, now it's just a matter of trying to track the items down. I think the most exotic pet store we have down here is a Petsmart. Thank goodness for the internet. I'm excited at the prospect of committing blaspheme in the hubby's food processor.

Has anyone tried adding oregano oil to a scalp treatment? It seems like something you would need to be careful with, but might be helpful for scalp issues.

Also, I'm flattered by those who are entertained by my posting style, but it's an illusion- I only write like this when I'm annoyed. Otherwise, I am mannerly out of habit, like learning how to control your bladder; a struggle when you first try to master it and then impossible to abandon later without unpredictable results.

LOL, you do not need an exotic pet store. I started out using non organic catnip from a pet store. It is cheap.

I upgraded to organic pet store catnip, after health food store, bulk organic catnip, proved to be of inconsistent quality.

GoldenRed
September 6th, 2008, 10:47 PM
I've used oil of oregano and oregano rinses.

MotherConfessor
September 6th, 2008, 11:07 PM
I have used oregano oil and I liked it very much, but in my book the best skin-problem oil is tea tree. I used it on my scalp when I got a nasty outbreak (don't know what I reacted to but it was unpleasant) and it cleared it right up. Plus its less expensive than oregano oil, which means a lot to those of us who count couch cushion change as income.

Just to add my two cents about how to get to your scalp, I brush my hair, then pull it back like I'm going to make a very loose high bun, then push the hair forward so it stands up in front. Then I just slide my fingers through to my scalp. Its faster and easier than any other method I have tried.

Good luck

GoldenRed
September 6th, 2008, 11:21 PM
Mother, your hair is lovely!

aisling
September 7th, 2008, 12:31 AM
I was scrolling and scrolling and then lora said what I'm thinking: CLARIFY! Ratty ends, tangling, heavy cone use, I'd definitely start with clarifying and then do some kind of simple moisture treatment, perhaps slather on one of those cheap Vo5 or Suave conditioners for an hour or two on the ends and see what the hair thinks.

Periwinkle
September 7th, 2008, 04:18 AM
I was scrolling and scrolling and then lora said what I'm thinking: CLARIFY! Ratty ends, tangling, heavy cone use, I'd definitely start with clarifying and then do some kind of simple moisture treatment, perhaps slather on one of those cheap Vo5 or Suave conditioners for an hour or two on the ends and see what the hair thinks.

That's what I was thinking, too. I've been investigating the possibility of clarifying with baking powder recently, though I've not tried it yet. Some people have great results, but others find that it makes the tangles worse, so I don't know if you'd want to try. Anyway, I made a thread about it: clicky. (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=11371)

If you ever have any ear problems, you can buy ear cleaning thingies with really powerful squirty nozzles, so if the mustard bottles don't cut it, you could try those.

I also recommend doing something with your hair at night: a braid of some kind would probably work well. Spidermom has a method of typing off braids with an elastic over a ribbon that helps to prevent damage but still holds well - maybe you could try that?

Even if you only do post this way when you're annoyed, I still find your posting style hilarious :D I hope you get your hair sorted out!

happymommy
September 7th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Hi! I have to say, you have some of the greatest descriptions :) Ha! You said wet hen with homicidal urges :D)

Now, on to my humble suggestions:

I buy my catnip at Walmart. It's in a big plastic container for 4.99. And you get a free cat toy. Although I haven't managed to dig deep enough to find mine, grrrr. Come to think of it, I don't have a cat either...

Anyway, my scalp is super sensitive and I am an ecxs...ecsem...itchy scratchy rash head-to-toe sufferer myself. I put .4 ml tea tree oil (why .4 you ask? Because the only measuring syringe I had handy was an Infant Tylenol one. It measures .4 and .8 ) in about 6 or 7 oz of condish for my scalp CO washes and my scalp loves me. DH can't stand the smell of tea tree and he still loves me after I do this. CO'ing has really saved my scalp.

Once, I was really desperate to heal my scalp after chemically frying it with some hair dye. Nasty itchies, flakies, and bleeding ensued. I just took a syringe and squirted about 4 ml of straight tea tree oil right onto my scalp and massaged it in. ( This is the particular incident where DH discovered he hated the smell of tea tree.) It tingled and calmed my scalp. Bliss! And smelled very tea tree-ey. Three days later it still smelled very tea tree-ey, but my itchy flakey bleeding scalp was completely healed. Also, since I have the yucky gross habit of periodically getting scalp acne, I decided to add the .4 ml to my condish regularly. I very rarely get the scalp-ne any longer nor have the itchy excemas (???) come back.

I wish you luck trying to find a hair cure! But you should definitely post more often. You are very fun to read :)

rockkcor
September 7th, 2008, 09:15 AM
I can only shout out: 'Don't do it!'
Take few more months and if after 4 or 5 months you feel the same - then I guess you should cut it... But you remember - after each haircut I woke up hoping that haircut was just a bad dream!
Once you cut it - only then you face the reality of what you done...

melikai
September 7th, 2008, 10:32 AM
Some amazing suggestions already, but thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

I highly recommend Nizoral shampoo for any scalp flakiness, if the solutions you are already trying don't work out.

I have a packet of cassia (56 g so not a huge amount) that I would be more than willing to send you for the price of shipping.

I also have a slightly used Chagrin Valley Honey Beer and Egg shampoo bar that I would also be more than willing to send to you for the price of shipping.

Let me know and best wishes!

SHELIAANN1969
September 7th, 2008, 01:16 PM
I haven't read all the replies, but if you can find either a bar of pine tar soap, or a bottle of pine tar shampoo, that helps me when I get a flaky scalp.

Sometimes I get one little patch near the front of my head, that will get really really dandruffy, and I will get small patches around my scalp too, ick, hate the dandruff.

I use pine tar shampoo, it's a bit expensive, and smells hideous, but it works for me.

I wash my hair maybe 2 days in a row with it, then maybe follow up in a few days with it again, and it usually cures the problem.

If you get some, wash your hair, get it really into the scalp (if you can contain it to the scalp, it's better, that's where it needs to be, but that's difficult) then leve it on there maybe 5 minutes and rinse.

It will linger, it does stink, man oh man it stinks, but it works.

Good luck, I know it's unbearable.

Iphinoe
September 7th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Some amazing suggestions already, but thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

I highly recommend Nizoral shampoo for any scalp flakiness, if the solutions you are already trying don't work out.

I have a packet of cassia (56 g so not a huge amount) that I would be more than willing to send you for the price of shipping.

I also have a slightly used Chagrin Valley Honey Beer and Egg shampoo bar that I would also be more than willing to send to you for the price of shipping.

Let me know and best wishes!

I had no luck with Nizoral, although it cut down on the itching.

I'll keep your offer in mind, thank you- it's very generous of you. I must say I am feeling the long hair love from this forum.

I had a semi-successful shopping excursion today, and was able to get Chamomile tea, catnip, and eggs. Totally struck out on glycerin, coconut oil, jojoba oil, almond oil, tea tree oil, and yogurt that wasn't fat-free/low-fat/flavoured. Oh, Texas. You're something else, but alas not somewhere else.

I also picked up some Suave Clarifying Shampoo, but now looking at the ingredients I spot methylchloroisothiazolinone and methylisothiazolinone, which sound like (besides an alternate universe's Aztec pantheon) they might be silicones? Say it isn't so! I have never approached the shampoo aisle with such trepidation. I thought I remembered people listing Suave as a cone-free option but in my haste to get a clarifying + coneless shampoo I may have hoisted my petard.

Confirm/Deny, anyone? I'm chomping at the bit to get my cone-addicted hair detoxed so I can start it on the rehab program.

I am about to brew up some catnip, and plan to whip up a milk + honey + brown sugar + chamomile scalp scrub, because I need to exfoliate my scalp. I will follow everything with an AVC rinse.

I just need to get clarified, can I use this shampoo?

Nevermore
September 7th, 2008, 02:51 PM
Methylchloroisothiazolinone and methylisothiazolinone are preservatives :) Do not fear!

WritingPrincess
September 7th, 2008, 04:17 PM
<hijack>You mean methyl-mouthfuls aren't cones? Here I thought I was a conehead, because both are in my conditioner.</hijack>

wintersun99
September 7th, 2008, 07:18 PM
... I may have hoisted my petard...
:laugh:

G'luck with your detox...

Teazel
September 7th, 2008, 08:20 PM
methyl-mouthfuls

I love this thread! :rollin:

Iphinoe, it sounds like you're on the right track. Good luck, and do let us know how it goes!

aisling
September 8th, 2008, 01:14 AM
<hijack>You mean methyl-mouthfuls aren't cones? Here I thought I was a conehead, because both are in my conditioner.</hijack>

They end in -one not -cone, there's a reason silicones are called "cones" :)

Iphinoe
September 8th, 2008, 01:41 PM
Getting a bit frustrated trying to find the appropriate ACV rinse ratio, I have found many references to it, of course, but not the actual recipe.

My scalp scrub, shampoo, and catnip rinse are standing by, so I'm a bit ansty, does anyone know what the ACV rinse recipe should be?

annielauri
September 8th, 2008, 01:47 PM
It kind of depends on the hardness of your water??? I use white vinegar - 2 tablespoons to 4 cups warm water. If using ACV, I personally would use a little less?

AnimaSola3o4
September 8th, 2008, 02:05 PM
You wanna know what saved my scalp?

Monistat. Err well, to be more specific, the miconazole in it. I ended up buying Nizoral shampoo. (which I recommend highly to anyone with scalp issues, though it does tend to be kinda pricey.)

I also chuckled when I read your post, you are an excellent writer - very descriptive - i love it! :)

Iphinoe
September 8th, 2008, 03:28 PM
Well, I'm out of the shower.

Since I'm likely to have at least weekly disasters of the same magnitude, and I've gotten a few private messages from posters requesting I start a blog, should I just blog my results instead of in this thread?

wintersun99
September 8th, 2008, 03:42 PM
A blog would be a great reference for all of the different things/experiments you try, you could then note for future use how your hair likes oils, which one, etc. same with everything else. As always, start with one or two things at first so that you know what experiment is causing what change... for questions you could keep updating this post... it's really your choice :)

*waiting to see what you think of catnip*

Iphinoe
September 8th, 2008, 11:49 PM
A blog would be a great reference for all of the different things/experiments you try, you could then note for future use how your hair likes oils, which one, etc. same with everything else. As always, start with one or two things at first so that you know what experiment is causing what change... for questions you could keep updating this post... it's really your choice :)

*waiting to see what you think of catnip*

The blog has been posted. If I could shoot my hair with a tranquilizer before I try to comb it out, I would.

annielauri
September 9th, 2008, 05:41 AM
Ok, just read your blog and think you should write a comedy column for TLHC forums!!! As said before, I think you should try one thing at a time so that you can figure out what works. I know it is hard, I am having the same issues with wanting to try EVERY last thing on here that OP say works for them. Good luck with your "no cones adventure"!

Iphinoe
September 9th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Ok, just read your blog and think you should write a comedy column for TLHC forums!!! As said before, I think you should try one thing at a time so that you can figure out what works. I know it is hard, I am having the same issues with wanting to try EVERY last thing on here that OP say works for them. Good luck with your "no cones adventure"!

But if I did, I might get paranoid that people were feeding me "comedy option" suggestions for my hair treatments. ;)

I'm so shellshocked that I don't know where to start today.

Any suggestions? Maybe an EVOO allover conditioning, let it set for X time, and then wash out with diluted clarifying shampoo?

Catnip or ACV after?

Honey39
September 9th, 2008, 11:46 AM
But if I did, I might get paranoid that people were feeding me "comedy option" suggestions for my hair treatments. ;)

I'm so shellshocked that I don't know where to start today.

Any suggestions? Maybe an EVOO allover conditioning, let it set for X time, and then wash out with diluted clarifying shampoo?

Catnip or ACV after?

I think you tried too many things at once - and stuff I've never even heard of, lol!

Why don't you try Snowymoons moisture Treatment - the famous SMT! That's been my all time favourite discovery; basically it's a spoon of honey, a spoon of aloe vero gel, four spoons of cone-free conditioner. Mix it up, microwave for ten secs, smear on wet clean hair, put a shower cap on and towel, leave for an hour and rinse out. It's been the one thing that has given moisture to my hair, and I really rate it a lot. There are threads about this with more expert opinions, but it's the one thing that has tamed my thick, frizzy hair the most.

aisling
September 9th, 2008, 11:47 AM
Conditioner :) You can do an ACV rinse but I still recommend conditioner. And don't dilute the clarifying shampoo much, just a little to make it easier to spread. If you really want to clarify, that is. Also, wash from root to tip with shampoo this time, it's not usually necessary otherwise.

Iphinoe
September 9th, 2008, 11:54 AM
I think you tried too many things at once - and stuff I've never even heard of, lol!

Why don't you try Snowymoons moisture Treatment - the famous SMT! That's been my all time favourite discovery; basically it's a spoon of honey, a spoon of aloe vero gel, four spoons of cone-free conditioner. Mix it up, microwave for ten secs, smear on wet clean hair, put a shower cap on and towel, leave for an hour and rinse out. It's been the one thing that has given moisture to my hair, and I really rate it a lot. There are threads about this with more expert opinions, but it's the one thing that has tamed my thick, frizzy hair the most.

I would, but I don't have aloe vera gel or cone-free conditioner.

From the list of 'ingredients on hand' previously posted, what conditioner could I make? (I can repost it if you like) It's unlikely that I'll be able to hunt for ingredients until Friday. Clearly, I can't wait that long to condition.

If I shampoo again, I would just want to wash out the conditioner as I've already clarified.

And thanks again for all the support I've gotten here. The world is frightening without 'cones.

Honey39
September 9th, 2008, 12:37 PM
I would, but I don't have aloe vera gel or cone-free conditioner.

From the list of 'ingredients on hand' previously posted, what conditioner could I make? (I can repost it if you like) It's unlikely that I'll be able to hunt for ingredients until Friday. Clearly, I can't wait that long to condition.

If I shampoo again, I would just want to wash out the conditioner as I've already clarified.

And thanks again for all the support I've gotten here. The world is frightening without 'cones.

Lol - can one 'make' conditioner? I don't know!!! I have pretty thick hair, and I'm fond of oil on my hair to flatten it down and tame it, but I have to condition the oil out afterwards (the next day).

I'm no expert, but I think doing too much to your hair will just frighten it...:cheese: If you have NO conditioner, I would probably not do anything except wear it up, but that's because without conditioner you couldn't get anything through my hair and it would just stand on end as one matted mess...

Giving up shampoo and blowdrying my hair has made the biggest difference to the way it looks, I think. The other stuff is a bonus, but for me, washing it in conditioner only, combing ONCE when wet and then leaving it alone has helped the most.

Periwinkle
September 9th, 2008, 12:47 PM
I'm no expert, but I think doing too much to your hair will just frighten it...:cheese: I

I have the funniest picture in my head now of trying to comb my hair and having it slither around to get away from the comb and whimpering in fright at the sight of the shower :D

Peggy E.
September 9th, 2008, 01:10 PM
I'm weighing in with my vote for the vinegar rinse. I CO and had been having all kinds of problems with my scalp which the COing had not conquered.

Since adding the vinegar/water rinse it has really made a huge difference in the health of my scalp without weighing down my hair with heavy, gunky products that build up and damage your hair.

Hope you do find something to help you out and you'll be able to enjoy your hair instead of suffering through it. :o(

wintersun99
September 9th, 2008, 01:37 PM
I would, but I don't have aloe vera gel or cone-free conditioner.

From the list of 'ingredients on hand' previously posted, what conditioner could I make? (I can repost it if you like) It's unlikely that I'll be able to hunt for ingredients until Friday. Clearly, I can't wait that long to condition.

If I shampoo again, I would just want to wash out the conditioner as I've already clarified.

And thanks again for all the support I've gotten here. The world is frightening without 'cones.

Here are my thoughts...

Does your scalp need to be washed again? If so, (CWC) put conditioner on your length, wash your scalp with your nozzle bottle with diluted shampoo (dilute with water) rinse and then condition again. Use a non-'cone conditioner like V05 or White Rain or whatever you have on hand.

If your scalp does not need to be washed again... deep condition your length keeping the conditioner off of your scalp. You do not need to do the full SMT if you don't have the ingredients. 50:50 honey/no 'cone conditioner works great. Or, just use conditioner alone, wrap up your hair, leave it on for an hour or so and rinse.

I would not use anything else today - no oil (unless it's a light coating on the very ends after the deep condition) no ACV, etc.

Just condition and see how the length and scalp feel... g'luck :)

ETA: ok, I just read that you don't have cone-free conditioner on hand. In that case, do you have coconut oil or EVOO? I would put that on the length (on towel dry/dampish hair) and let it soak in...your hair may feel a bit dry until you can get the conditioner you need.

Iphinoe
September 9th, 2008, 02:24 PM
Here are my thoughts...

Does your scalp need to be washed again? If so, (CWC) put conditioner on your length, wash your scalp with your nozzle bottle with diluted shampoo (dilute with water) rinse and then condition again. Use a non-'cone conditioner like V05 or White Rain or whatever you have on hand.

If your scalp does not need to be washed again... deep condition your length keeping the conditioner off of your scalp. You do not need to do the full SMT if you don't have the ingredients. 50:50 honey/no 'cone conditioner works great. Or, just use conditioner alone, wrap up your hair, leave it on for an hour or so and rinse.

I would not use anything else today - no oil (unless it's a light coating on the very ends after the deep condition) no ACV, etc.

Just condition and see how the length and scalp feel... g'luck :)

ETA: ok, I just read that you don't have cone-free conditioner on hand. In that case, do you have coconut oil or EVOO? I would put that on the length (on towel dry/dampish hair) and let it soak in...your hair may feel a bit dry until you can get the conditioner you need.

I do have EVOO. Should I do an EVOO + honey mix then?

My scalp is still quite itchy, although I think it may be less flaky, which is a cause for excitement just shy of streaking through a nearby park. I noticed that the area just inside my hairline isn't as dry-looking as it normally is, which gives me hope.

heidi w.
September 9th, 2008, 02:59 PM
If I have this right, your hair type is likely lots of it, coarse and curly (only length makes it wavy looking). I'm betting your hair type is somewhat akin to ethnic hair such as Black Women's hair. This hair type needs a lot of conditioner and this conditioner needs to be left on even after a hair wash (such as a leave-in, or oiling, or a sheer layer of conditioner worked into damp hair, or a combination thereof). This hair type should not be washed overly often -- perhaps every 3/4 days to once a week.

Your hair type very likely needs conditioner, fairly heavy, each time you hair wash, and about once to every other week a deep conditioning treatment. I recommend trying BIOLAGE'S CONDITIONING BALM to give some weight to that poof and real softness. It helps with tangles too, a little.

This hair type should NOT BE BRUSHED. You can PLOP; you can finger comb and it'll look fabulous; you can straighten on occasion; you can finger curl! Use a comb, very very wide tooth comb. Brushing separates the coiled loops of curl/furl thus invoking frizz.

A lot of people with your hair type have great results with heavier oils such as already mentioned coconut oil, but you will need to oil on damp hair via spritzing the oil in by blending with water so as to lock out moisture from the environment (humidity) which will make it frizz. I recommend this brand of COCONUT OIL, UNREFINED, SPECIFICALLY FOR USE ON HAIR AND SKIN
http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=205
Your local grocer can help you acquire it! around $5-$6 for 15 oz. Lasts forever.

This hair type needs to be put together while still damp. Waiting to work on this hair type after it's dry will produce a mess.

Sleep on slippery fabric. IF hair is long enough, bundle or tie the hair up during night yet loose enough it's not pulling on the scalp (think off to the side or high on the head).

In winter, drier months, sleep with a humidifier in your bedroom. (Good for skin, too.)

Put a water filter on the arm of the shower head to eliminate hard water minerals.

Do not do blunt cuts on the very ends, straight across. This tends, for your hair type, to produce a very frothy look at the bottom of such hair.

This type benefits from leaving heavy oiling in overnight.

This hair type benefits from using washing agents that are sans or low SLS laurel and laureth sulfates. You might like DEVACURL shampoo invented by the master of CURLY GIRL book.
http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCurl-No-Poo-p-53.html
http://www.evabeauty.com/brand/DevaCurl.asp

You might very likely appreciate CO WASHING, a method of washing the hair with conditioner and little-to-no shampoo ever.

I'm thinking SHEA BUTTER, such as in Fox' Shea Butter treatment. Found on the RECIPE section of LHC.
I'm thinking WHIPPED BUTTER such as this
https://anitagrant.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=23&category_id=3&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=41

I'm thinking SNOWYMOON'S MOISTURE TREATMENT found SMT on the RECIPE section of this board. These are for either conditioning deeply or conditioning after a hair wash.

Another friend of mine with coarse, lots of it, very wavy to high curl hair loves CHOLESTEROL that she finds in the ethnic beauty section.

These are my quick thoughts.

Trust me, you have the hair everyone wants!!

heidi w.

heidi w.
September 9th, 2008, 03:12 PM
For the scalp SCRITCH before each shampoo or some version of a hair wash. This helps to loosen detris (dried product, dirt, skin bits, dried on sebum, all that yuk) .....

Use a fine toothed comb. Yes fine toothed. Find a small one. Small horn combs are awesome for this. Found on eBay.

Use this comb as prescribed below. Do not detangle. You will not pull out hair.

Draw the hair back and away from the forehead hairline.
Position comb at center of front forehead hairline and start using the teensiest of back&forth motions, and move front to back on the head, in a row.
Lift comb, reset on one side or the other, somewhat overlapping row you just completed, and do likewise.
Copy this til you hit the tips of the ears on both sides.
(You should see some gunk come up on the comb.)

Then, for behind the ears, angle the teeth towards the inside of the ear flap. Flip comb, and go across in similar back&forth motions towards the center of the back of the head.

Then divide hair in half down the back, and from center line (each side respectively) use the same motions going down at a slight angle from back head center line to the edge of the hairline.

Done.

Good for massaging midweek, too.


ACV RINSE can help with dandruff itchies. Do after shampoo before conditioning in your instance! Separate hair to get to scalp skin. (I'm assuming dark hair? IF light, use lemon juice. For either, dilute WELL!!! Never pure. MORE IS NOT BETTER)

heidi w.

heidi w.
September 9th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Get the book CURLY GIRL and NATURALLY HEALTH HAIR.

You'll appreciate these guides!

heidi w.

heidi w.
September 9th, 2008, 03:22 PM
By all accounts I am aware of, the overwhelming opinion is that GARNIER FRUCTIS isn't so fructis!

heidi w.

Iphinoe
September 9th, 2008, 04:05 PM
Some great advice
heidi w.

Thank you for the helpful suggestions!

Actually, my hair texture is much more relaxed than that, I've updated my avatar with an old picture of it back in 2006 when the temporary dye was still in it and my hair was about 36". It's a bit flattened as I had it in a bun before I took that picture, and I chopped 6" off earlier this year which shaped the ends into a U instead of 'fairy tale' ends. The colour has gone back to a light brown with a lot of red tones (lots of blondes and redheads in my family).

There is a fair bit of it but it's fine enough that it compacts down to a small bun if I wind it tightly. It's not particularly coarse unless it needs conditioning, but oh man are you right about it not being washed often. If I wash it more than every three days I get a visual chorus of "Oh no you di'int!" and "It's ON now, girlfriend!" with a bit of "You'd better hope you live to regret this!" Brushing seems to smooth out the waves and make it more uniform instead of piecey like the photo.

Does that help?

The short hairs around my head curl in humidity and I get ringlets around my ears and the back of my neck, on the very, very rare occasions my hair was curled with an iron it would hold the curl like a jack russell on a slab of steak.

I do currently scritch with a fine-coothed comb to loosen the flakes before I wash, using that zig-zagging motion in an attempt to get the scalp greeblies off.

If I brush, it flattens the waves and looks like a 2A hair type. If I wind it up in a bun when damp, when I take it out it's a long smooth ringlet that breaks into smaller ringlets, like the ends in my avatar.

Thanks so much for clarifying the ACV question, that makes more sense. I will definitely rinse between shampooing and conditioning.

How do people oil over night without getting their pillows, sheets, and sleepmates greasy? I would think that a bun wrapped in plastic would be difficult to sleep on. What am I missing?

My hair definitely wants some hardcore conditioning, though. I will keep an eye out for that brand of coconut milk (thank you for the suggestion) and if necessary will strong arm DH into a health food store run if we can't find it at our local grocery.

My ends can take some pretty robust oiling, I think. I know it sucked up the Burt's Bees Avocado and Nettle treatment like it was candy. Would the whipped butter you linked to be too heavy, do you think?

Teazel
September 9th, 2008, 06:30 PM
I'd just like to repeat that your hair is gorgeous, and so worth not chopping. It's similar to mine in texture and thickness, but it sounds like it has a lot more wavy/curliness - lucky you!!

You know what; if you've got no no-cone conditioner, just use the coney one you have until you can get something else. 'Cones are not evil, you just have to be aware of what they actually do, and that you need to strip them off from time to time if you use them. A coney conditioner is better than none at all!

And overnight oiling can be a wonderful thing. Use just enough oil to make your hair stringy (you can do this just on the length to avoid greasing up your pillow), comb it through and braid. No worries. A heavy oiling is also a great way to get tangles out if you've got a bit of matting going on.

I wouldn't add honey to the oil. What a mess! Ick! Can't see any benefit to it. Honey applied at the same time as conditioner, though, is GREAT, since it gets rinsed straight out. It's just not something you want to have hanging around in your hair.

Oh, and SMT is fab.

Iphinoe
September 10th, 2008, 12:15 AM
I'd just like to repeat that your hair is gorgeous, and so worth not chopping. It's similar to mine in texture and thickness, but it sounds like it has a lot more wavy/curliness - lucky you!!

You know what; if you've got no no-cone conditioner, just use the coney one you have until you can get something else. 'Cones are not evil, you just have to be aware of what they actually do, and that you need to strip them off from time to time if you use them. A coney conditioner is better than none at all!

And overnight oiling can be a wonderful thing. Use just enough oil to make your hair stringy (you can do this just on the length to avoid greasing up your pillow), comb it through and braid. No worries. A heavy oiling is also a great way to get tangles out if you've got a bit of matting going on.

I wouldn't add honey to the oil. What a mess! Ick! Can't see any benefit to it. Honey applied at the same time as conditioner, though, is GREAT, since it gets rinsed straight out. It's just not something you want to have hanging around in your hair.

Oh, and SMT is fab.

Thanks for the compliment; I wish we had a camera so I could take a picture of how it is now.

I didn't end up doing anything tonight as we ended up wasting hours, and more money than I'd like to think about, on blowing a tire on an overpass, my DH escaping being creamed while trying to change the tire by a Texan in a pick-up hyped up on confederate dreams, realizing we didn't have the extra gadget to get the tire off, getting rescued from suspicious police by the tow truck, and getting to the Walmart tire centre some 15 minutes before they closed to replace the tire.

We should have ordered in.

Back to hair news, I'm ready to commit to a BBB, and while the Mason Pearson line looks great, I take it they are not available through that website linked in the abbreviations thread? I'm going to hunt on Amazon.

-- Edit: HOLY RAGING NUCLEAR JELLY BEANS! $90 for a hairbrush?!

Please tell me there is an affordable but decent quality BBB out there for those of us with lean pockets.

heidi w.
September 10th, 2008, 07:53 AM
Before I go on, have you considered becoming the next Erma Bombeck???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erma_Bombeck

She had books with titles like these,
The Grass is Always Greener Over the Septic Tank
If Life is a Bowl of Cherries, What Am I Doing in the Pits?
I Lost Everything in the Post-Natal Depression
Motherhood: The Second Oldest Profession

At least your own web page with reflections on life ....

I could hear a conversation between you and Dr. Phil....

Phil: How's that workin' for ya?
You: Holdin' on hard like a Jack Russell Terrier with a slab of steak!

Yeah, really, I could see you as some humor columnist reflecting upon the mundane and insane in life.

heidi w.

heidi w.
September 10th, 2008, 07:55 AM
Next, there is no reason to cut your hair, not even a bit!

Back away from the scissors! [said in low male announcer voice over intercom complete with feedback) Count to ten and run pell-mell in the other direction!!

Back, back, back....

heidi w.

bikerblue
September 10th, 2008, 08:02 AM
sorry to hear about your hair woes, my scalp drove me mad for years, I stopped using shampoo with sulfates and it recovered, J/A/S/O/N jojoba shampoo did the trick for me, I know you mentioned you don't have alot to spend on hair products, have you tried massaging your scalp with olive oil?

heidi w.
September 10th, 2008, 08:04 AM
back to Erma again....

Quotes:

"Insanity is hereditary. You can catch it from your kids."
"My second favorite household chore is ironing. My first one being hitting my head on the top bunk bed until I faint."
"There's nothing sadder in this world than to awake Christmas morning and not be a child."
"If a man watches three football games in a row, he should be declared legally dead."
"The only reason I would take up jogging is so I could hear heavy breathing again."
"Laughter rises out of tragedy, when you need it the most, and rewards you for your courage."
"Dreams have only one owner at a time. That's why dreamers are lonely."
"When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'"
"In general, my children refused to eat anything that hadn't danced on TV."
"When humor goes, there goes civilization."
"Seize the moment. Think of all those women on the 'Titanic' who waved off the dessert cart."
"Never loan your car to anyone to whom you've given birth."
"The grass is always greener over the septic tank."


Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming....

heidi w.

heidi w.
September 10th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus!

Yes to a cheaper BBB.

Go to a local beauty supply store such as Sallys, or even Walgreens or sometimes even the beauty section of a grocery store. Cheaper BBB's can be had in the $10 range.

I've seen them as low as $7.

Believe it or not, the pet store. They have uber soft ones, smaller usually, but they're there. Other ones as mentioned above will likely have stiffer bristles.

Do you know HOW TO USE A BBB???? No detangling; never on wet hair. It's a polishing tool. It distributes sebum/applied oil, some claim it gets dust and other stuff off scalp (never my experience). Because of the oil/sebum it flattens the top hair on top of the head if it had any lift ever. (I'm sure you can think of some great simile that'll make me roar with laughter. You'll get what I mean after you use it.)

heidi w.

heidi w.
September 10th, 2008, 08:45 AM
Did you put the scissors away, far away???

heidi w.

Iphinoe
September 10th, 2008, 11:11 AM
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus!

Yes to a cheaper BBB.

Go to a local beauty supply store such as Sallys, or even Walgreens or sometimes even the beauty section of a grocery store. Cheaper BBB's can be had in the $10 range.

I've seen them as low as $7.

Believe it or not, the pet store. They have uber soft ones, smaller usually, but they're there. Other ones as mentioned above will likely have stiffer bristles.

Do you know HOW TO USE A BBB???? No detangling; never on wet hair. It's a polishing tool. It distributes sebum/applied oil, some claim it gets dust and other stuff off scalp (never my experience). Because of the oil/sebum it flattens the top hair on top of the head if it had any lift ever. (I'm sure you can think of some great simile that'll make me roar with laughter. You'll get what I mean after you use it.)

heidi w.

My goodness. This was totally worth staggering out of bed towards the medicine cabinet for. Not only did I crack up over your posts, I did so while fully in the jagged-toothed grip of a headache. I actually think it's trying to become a migraine, but it's been warming up since yesterday and still hasn't hit it's stride, there may still be hope.

I'm afraid I'm just not awake enough to be funny, although to be honest it's not something I do on purpose. Like many things not PG-13 enough to reference, it happens when it happens, but better not to get one's hopes up.

I have actually used a BBB before when I was in my early teens; I had waist- or hip-length hair up until I was 14 when I abruptly decided I had to have Angelina Jolie's haircut from 'Hackers'. I ignored the horrified and hastily blurted protests of my mother (a gift that keeps on giving years later as I can still make her blush by quoting her un-motherly statement) and got it cut and coloured black the same day. Then in a remarkable act of foresight not normally found in teenagers, I got all my wacky hair dye/style urges out of the way and started growing it out when I was 19; just in time to join the workforce and be judged an 'adult', unfettered by bias-inducing hair. You can get away with green/shaved/spotted hair when you're 17, but once you have rent to pay it's a bit more dicey.

But back to the BBB. At the time, I used it after combing to smooth my hair and give it a sheen, also to prep it for updos so they would be more tidy and glossy. I think my mother also put product on the brush directly as a method of distributing it on one's ends; she's a ringlet-head in addition to having a former life as a hairdresser, way back in the day. It was more than 10 years ago, so I'm fuzzy on the details.

I was thinking the BBB would be especially useful when oiling to get nice uniform coverage. I might even get two, one for oiling with stiffer bristles, and one for smoothing back my halo when I'm trying to put my hair up. Clearly I can't use one for the same purpose without constantly washing it, which is a tremendous pain, as I don't want to look like I'm prepping to commune with my otter brethren.

So I can go cheaper with the BBB without too much trouble? Do most people use a BB + nylon combo or are true PETA-enraging BBBs widely available?

And yes, the scissors have been ruled out as an option for now. I used to cut my hair myself, but with my mother's carefully-kept old hairdresser's scissors.

Now I'm going to go read more about Erma Bombeck. She sounds like my kinda lady. :rockerdud

heidi w.
September 10th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Your hair type that you describe is pretty similar to Fox' -- that Shea Butter Recipe. Fox also runs the LONG HAIR LOOM. She Hennas. (Lots of Loom folks henna. I'm not a big fan of it personally, but there are plenty who are.)

I think you have some things in common with SNOWYMOON, too.

I have never tried the WHIPPED BUTTER I linked in so can not attest to it.

I recommended COCONUT OIL, not coconut Milk. They're completely different. I gave a link to the brand I use, and suggested that your local grocer can special order it for you. It's cheap. Use the phone: it's cheaper than running all over the kingdom for something that might not be there. Plus goes to marital harmony if dragging hubs along!

Have you seen the OILING TUTORIAL in Articles Section? You will want to review that on how to oil, types of oils, and some basics on BBBing and oiling plus various people's feedback about experiences.

You need to find your HAIR TWIN on this forum: per above, I suggest starting with Snowymoon! She's been through a few things, and she now has beautiful hair! Once you find your twin, likely their routine will suit your hair rather well.

When SCRITCHING, use teensy-tiny back&forth motions, not big swashbuckling moves. And really angle the comb so that the teeth are angled almost under, like trying to curl up the gunk. Don't lay the comb flat or straight down on the head. Angle around 45 degrees, the teeth points towards the scalp skin, like curling up butter via lifting from under.

OILING OVERNIGHT
Just lay down an extra pillowcase or two. You'll be fine. For uber, uber heavy, I sometimes placed a towel over my pillow. This is washed out the next morning.

The humidity/curly bits is extremely normal. When the hairs get longer, they'll lie down. You will always have such bits. We all do. It's known as the halo effect. (Curlies appear to have more than straights, but us straight gals have 'em! They don't whirl up in humidity, though, since the cuticle is flatter and closer than for curlies.)

OLIVE OIL
I don't recommend using this oil on hair. Some do with applomb, but overall it's too viscous. Take care in OILING THE SCALP SKIN. Not everyone reacts well to this idea. Some do, but it's generally a subset of the oiling crowd.

Oils to consider:
Jojoba Oil - most closely mimics sebum in its waxy ester makeup (sebum, that is...sebum is not oil)

Coconut Oil
Sweet Almond Oil
Apricot Oil

you get the idea....


Overall, I think you don't need to go whole hog on a bunch of stuff. If you want to try stuff, ask folks here at LHC if they will mail you samples, or use the SWAP BOARD to keep costs down. I don't know if you have acces to PM's yet, but if you do, that's how folks can reach you to send you stuff. Make a list of things you'd like to try before purchasing the whole vat.

I'm thinking you'll really like SHEA BUTTER and it's not overly expensive. Both Fox and Snowymoon use it and it's included in their recipes for conditioning heavy.

I am thinking you don't need to go for whipped butter, just yet.

heidi w.

heidi w.
September 10th, 2008, 12:47 PM
BBB TIP OF THE DAY:

For smoothing the top surface layer of hair on top o'thehead, do not dig in with the bristles. Simply put the BBB on its side and rather glide, extremely gently, the edge of the bristles in the direction you want the hair to shine, lay (lie? -- agh -- at least it's not a lie!) This way you won't flatten down whatever lift you might have going, and it'll be just enough to smooth out any section-y bits that combs tend to create.

I use this technique frequently for smoothing updos into place. (Hairs that are looser or shorter may not stay put all day, but it's a way of avoiding hairspray in most instances.)

Hope your headache-migraine-wannabe goes away before full bloom! Some blooms just aren't that fabulous.

heidi w.

Iphinoe
September 10th, 2008, 04:00 PM
Your hair type that you describe is pretty similar to Fox' -- that Shea Butter Recipe. Fox also runs the LONG HAIR LOOM. She Hennas. (Lots of Loom folks henna. I'm not a big fan of it personally, but there are plenty who are.)

I think you have some things in common with SNOWYMOON, too.

I have never tried the WHIPPED BUTTER I linked in so can not attest to it.

I recommended COCONUT OIL, not coconut Milk. They're completely different. I gave a link to the brand I use, and suggested that your local grocer can special order it for you. It's cheap. Use the phone: it's cheaper than running all over the kingdom for something that might not be there. Plus goes to marital harmony if dragging hubs along!

Have you seen the OILING TUTORIAL in Articles Section? You will want to review that on how to oil, types of oils, and some basics on BBBing and oiling plus various people's feedback about experiences.

You need to find your HAIR TWIN on this forum: per above, I suggest starting with Snowymoon! She's been through a few things, and she now has beautiful hair! Once you find your twin, likely their routine will suit your hair rather well.

When SCRITCHING, use teensy-tiny back&forth motions, not big swashbuckling moves. And really angle the comb so that the teeth are angled almost under, like trying to curl up the gunk. Don't lay the comb flat or straight down on the head. Angle around 45 degrees, the teeth points towards the scalp skin, like curling up butter via lifting from under.

OILING OVERNIGHT
Just lay down an extra pillowcase or two. You'll be fine. For uber, uber heavy, I sometimes placed a towel over my pillow. This is washed out the next morning.

The humidity/curly bits is extremely normal. When the hairs get longer, they'll lie down. You will always have such bits. We all do. It's known as the halo effect. (Curlies appear to have more than straights, but us straight gals have 'em! They don't whirl up in humidity, though, since the cuticle is flatter and closer than for curlies.)

OLIVE OIL
I don't recommend using this oil on hair. Some do with applomb, but overall it's too viscous. Take care in OILING THE SCALP SKIN. Not everyone reacts well to this idea. Some do, but it's generally a subset of the oiling crowd.

Oils to consider:
Jojoba Oil - most closely mimics sebum in its waxy ester makeup (sebum, that is...sebum is not oil)

Coconut Oil
Sweet Almond Oil
Apricot Oil

you get the idea....


Overall, I think you don't need to go whole hog on a bunch of stuff. If you want to try stuff, ask folks here at LHC if they will mail you samples, or use the SWAP BOARD to keep costs down. I don't know if you have acces to PM's yet, but if you do, that's how folks can reach you to send you stuff. Make a list of things you'd like to try before purchasing the whole vat.

I'm thinking you'll really like SHEA BUTTER and it's not overly expensive. Both Fox and Snowymoon use it and it's included in their recipes for conditioning heavy.

I am thinking you don't need to go for whipped butter, just yet.

heidi w.

I've been steadily reading through the articles, and have a ton of ideas, but I'm definitely planning on doing things slowly. From what I can tell, my hair liked the EVOO so I think it's going to love the coconut oil. I'm super eager to get my hands on some, but considering DH's mood after yesterday and the fact that there is an Amazon warehouse in TX and shipping only takes two days, I'll get the goods faster if I order them online. I'll also avoid aggravating DH, who hates going shopping.

Amazon has a few Spectrum Coconut oils; I love coconut and am more than happy to smell like a pina colada, so I'd prefer unrefined, should I go with this: http://www.amazon.com/Spectrum-Naturals-Coconut-Oil-Unrefined/dp/B000AN36I0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1221075983&sr=8-3 or this: http://www.amazon.com/Spectrum-Essentials-Organic-Virgin-Coconut/dp/B000KHKKZ8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1221075983&sr=8-4 ? One says 'unrefined' where the other says 'organic virgin', but I thought virgin = unrefined? Does organic matter in this case? I'd prefer food-grade oils as one never knows when the mood for Thai food will strike.

In terms of SAO, I was thinking this: http://www.amazon.com/ALMOND-OIL-SWEET-NOW-FOODS/dp/B0014UAI48/ref=pd_bbs_6?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1221077042&sr=8-6 because the description says it can be used as a culinary oil, so I don't have to worry about what the carrier oils might do to my hair. I am a little dismayed that it's odorless, as I also love nut smells.

I figured that for both the SAO and the Jojoba Oil, smaller bottles would be better to start with?

Then again, the shipping charges are a bit much, so maybe I will wait until the weekend after all. At least I can call around and do most of the legwork over the phone.

I've also tried more updos in the last two days than I have in the last two years; the new updos also seem to show off a lot more of my hair than the old cinnamon-bun-with-stick 'do did. Very exciting, although figuring out what to do with all the excess length has been tricky.

Iphinoe
September 12th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Woop woop! Ktani, will you marry me?

I'm home from an expensive but profitable hair care shopping spree, and while I was BBBing the coconut oil all over my hair, I got a chance to measure the impact the catnip rinse has had on my scalp.

Since I wasn't able to go shopping until today and didn't want to miss conditioning, I just wore my hair up without washing it since my first hair care foray, with a second catnip rinse as a stopgap measure in the meantime. I just left it in.

While my scalp is still itchy, the BBBing gave me a chance to measure my flakiness. Wow. I use to sweep my hair over my shoulder and need to snowplow my shoulders, and after BBBing my hair and scalp to work in the coconut oil, I am amazed to see next to no flakes! Not only that, but the giant yucky patch at the very front hairline (where a centre part would be) has shrunk to a fraction of it's former size and doesn't have the same icky levels it used to.

Heidi w., I'm sorry that I couldn't get my hands on the Spectrum Virgin Organic coconut oil, all the store had in that brand was Refined, so I went with Nutiva unrefined organic instead. I combed through your amazing posts to create my shopping list.

Since I'm still reeling from the retail rush, here is my breathless list of goodies scooped today:

Aformentioned coconut oil
Jojoba Oil
Aloe Vera Juice (small, the gels were scary brands in the 'not recommended' list)
Tea Tree Oil (100%)
Shea Butter
BBB 1: large, round, stiff bristles, densely bristled, BBB 2: rectangular, medium size, spaced bristles, but very soft. I was hoping the second one would be stiff bristled for better oil distribution but it looks like I need to use the first one.
Coarse Sea Salt
Organic full fat yogurt
Vegetable Glycerin 100% pure and edible!
Fenugreek Seeds, and
Evening Primrose Oil caspules (small bottle)

I passed on the sweet almond oil because the size was giant and super expensive and I'd already racked up $90 I don't really have to spend on these goodies.

I'm currently coconut oiled to the gills and have a solution of aloe vera juice, honey, and tea tree oil on my scalp. I'll probably blog tonight or tomorrow after I've washed/rinse everything out.

I am a bit disconcerted by how excited I am at the prospect of washing my hair. It's like being psyched to go to the dentist for a root canal.

What's happened to me?!:scared:

melikai
September 15th, 2008, 01:28 PM
I don't see an update on your blog, missy!

I keep occasionally thinking of this and your hair "situation" rather trepidatiously. Stop keeping us in suspense! :evil:

Iphinoe
September 15th, 2008, 10:07 PM
I don't see an update on your blog, missy!

I keep occasionally thinking of this and your hair "situation" rather trepidatiously. Stop keeping us in suspense! :evil:

Your cattleprod is effective.

The newest trainwreck has been blogged. How PG-13 do these blogs have to be?

Melisande
September 15th, 2008, 10:58 PM
Some great advice here, some of it I'll have to try myself.

What I do against ratty ends: mix conditioner (coneless) and oil (whichever), soak ends in the mixture, put sandwich baggie over it and secure with scrunchie. Wash out after an hour or two.

Cocaloe helps against tangles - coconut oil and aloe vera gel, a very good recipe I learnt here. It's a favorite of my daughter with very tangly tough curls. You might try to mix it with conditioner for a leave-in before you put your hair up or braid it.

Containing the hair on a regular basis should help, too.

For the scalp: I second jojoba oil massages (and heavy applications of oil the night before you wash) so your scalp feels it doesn't need to produce so much oil. My won scalp is dry and non-flaky but my daughter had good results with it.

Don't chop, please.

WritingPrincess
September 16th, 2008, 02:51 PM
Your cattleprod is effective.

The newest trainwreck has been blogged. How PG-13 do these blogs have to be?

PG-13 enough for me to read without my mom getting mad. :D I have to say, you are a hilarious writer. I'm looking forward to more blog posts from you.

Iphinoe
September 16th, 2008, 03:18 PM
PG-13 enough for me to read without my mom getting mad. :D I have to say, you are a hilarious writer. I'm looking forward to more blog posts from you.

Er, how liberal is your mom?

Glad you enjoyed reading it. Not many people have commented on this one, so I was worried people weren't reading it/didn't like it. I'm not really a blogger by nature so LHC, this blog's fer you. :flowers:

Normally I'd keep such embarrassments to myself. Who really wants to announce that their hair looks like they've got a homemade protein treatment in it?

I'd love for someone to explain what that was ... maybe the powdered milk reacting to something and forming into strands? I'm still brushing that gunk out, and it's formed some nasty knots with a glued centre.

WritingPrincess
September 17th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Er, how liberal is your mom?
Kind of a tough question to answer. I'll PM you.

Qamar
September 17th, 2008, 01:00 PM
huuby just left to mow someone else's lawn (and this isn't a euphemism, for once)


My mind just had THAT euphemistic mental image when I read that, and now my screen thanks you kindly for the drink of tea. My sinuses are a tad less happy about it though.

Iphinoe
September 17th, 2008, 01:05 PM
My mind just had THAT euphemistic mental image when I read that, and now my screen thanks you kindly for the drink of tea. My sinuses are a tad less happy about it though.

I admit it was one of those moments where you re-read something and you realize it's funny, and then crack yourself up at a joke that seems to have made itself with little to no input from you.

Gotta love when that happens.

melikai
September 17th, 2008, 01:43 PM
I'd love for someone to explain what that was ... maybe the powdered milk reacting to something and forming into strands? I'm still brushing that gunk out, and it's formed some nasty knots with a glued centre.

All I can think of is maybe there was gluten in...something? You used quite a few things on your hair so it's hard to say!

And yes, the blog was hilarious as always. Thanks for heeding my subtle request.

Qamar
September 17th, 2008, 01:54 PM
I almost peed myself reading the blog entries. My sweetie wanted to know what had me in such fits of laughter and I couldn't stop laughing long enough to tell him! You have my complete sympathy though.

Iphinoe
October 4th, 2008, 05:38 PM
Okay, I'm back for some more help.

I've put aside my attempts to have 100&#37; natural hair care because the homemade beer-egg-herb-etc shampoos were just not getting the job done. I bought the Suave Tropical Coconut 'poo and condish, and have been adding things to them. I found that without any semblance of lather, my hair would stay grimy and disgusting once dry no matter how much I scrubbed and rinsed.

I put a bit of tea tree oil for scalp control in the shampoo as well as massively diluting it; this seems to nicely clean my scalp and, er, canopy? Is that what people call the parts of the hair that actually surround the head and get scalp oil/etc on them?

I've tried mixing the conditioner with various things including whole organic yogurt and coconut oil, I think I tried honey in it once. I usually oil the ends of my hair where I used to put condish in the CWC method, so when I shampoo it's protected as the diluted shampoo tends to move down the hair on its own so there is more shampooing of the length happening.

I make certain to rinse out the shampoo completely, as well as a AVC rinse. I put the condish mixture on the ends and on the part of my hair from the ears/chin down (what's this part called? The length?) but especially concentrated on the ends. I wash the usual suspects/shave while my hair is conditioning, then do a lukewarm rinse.

My hair feels clean after I do this, and feels clean while it's wet, but as soon as it's dry I have super dry ends and the length is greasy enough to provide alternate energy. The canopy (?) is frizzy as hell, but that's usual and I accept that my hair type creates a halo from all the hairs short enough to curl. If anything is put on it, however light, it's greasy enough to wash the next day. I prefer to wash once or twice a week, so I endure the frizz.

It's like the coconut oil is overconditioning the length but not conditioning the ends, which is odd because there isn't such a difference in dryness between length and ends before I wash it.

DH would never forbid me to use anything, but he holds his breath before and after kissing me when I've got shea in my hair as well as complains that it makes our entire apartment reek. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being pleasant and 10 being beyond bearing, tea tree got a 4 and shea butter got a 9.

So shea is not a hair option anymore, although it's not cheap so I may use it on my feet. DH sadly does not have a fetish for constantly massaging my feet so I'm safe enough there.

I love the smell of coconut oil but it doesn't seem to be doing my hair any favours. What should I do from here?

I feel like I need a lighter conditioner on the length and a heavier conditioner on the ends, but I don't want to use pure condish as I don't think store bought products are kind to hair, cone-free or not.

The length, despite the stringy look from the oil, does feel lovely, soft, and smooth, if greasy.

Ideas?

melikai
October 4th, 2008, 06:03 PM
Hrm. Have you tried a mini trim? Like a 1/2"?

I was having a milder version of this happen to me, and a thorough S&D helped my ends *feel* less dry, although I also clarified with baking soda mixed into my undiluted shampoo. I also CWC, but have stopped diluting my shampoo as it seemed counter productive to the CWC.
I would stop using the oil as the first conditioner and try using just the Suave conditioner and see if that helps. Maybe use only a couple drops of the oil on dry hair and only on the very ends. I think that too much oil could cause frizz, grease, and a plethora of problems like you seem to be having.
So, as revolutionary as it sounds, maybe try using just regular shampoo and conditioner in your CWC routine, and then oil the very ends only as needed? Sometimes simpler is better.
Sorry if you've already tried this in the past....

Iphinoe
October 4th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Hrm. Have you tried a mini trim? Like a 1/2"?

I was having a milder version of this happen to me, and a thorough S&D helped my ends *feel* less dry, although I also clarified with baking soda mixed into my undiluted shampoo. I also CWC, but have stopped diluting my shampoo as it seemed counter productive to the CWC.
I would stop using the oil as the first conditioner and try using just the Suave conditioner and see if that helps. Maybe use only a couple drops of the oil on dry hair and only on the very ends. I think that too much oil could cause frizz, grease, and a plethora of problems like you seem to be having.
So, as revolutionary as it sounds, maybe try using just regular shampoo and conditioner in your CWC routine, and then oil the very ends only as needed? Sometimes simpler is better.
Sorry if you've already tried this in the past....

I've done mini trims and I regularly S&D, so my ends aren't particularly damaged. I did cut a good six inches off earlier this year, so my ends are in reasonable shape, just dry.

I find straight store products too harsh for my hair. The frizz isn't conditioned, just shampooed as it's always naturally greasy from sebum by the time I wash it.

How do people manage to put only a few drops of oil on the hair? I can't seem to get decent coverage that way without dipping the extreme ends in oil and then using a BBB to work the oil into the hair, as the oil moves onto the brush and then I slowly work my way up as if brushing out tangles. My hair seems to absorb massive amounts of oil and bellow for more.

Distilled water is something I can't find here, do you think that filtered water + oil in a mister would work?

I'm really tempted to try camellia oil applied with an oil-soaked comb. What do you all think of that idea?

sky
October 4th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I live in Oh My God Get Me Out Of Here, Texas, which is between We Shoot Strangers, TX and You Only Wish This Was The Middle Of Nowhere, TX Oh, girlfriend, you NAILED this!!! ROFLOL!!!

Texas is truly an "alternate universe"!

sky
October 4th, 2008, 07:14 PM
Distilled water is something I can't find here, do you think that filtered water + oil in a mister would work?

On those occasions when it *does* rain, set a container outside and catch all you can. It's great for hair.

Avoid downspouts, as rainwater picks up impurities while running over the roof.

HTH

sky

BlackfootHair
October 4th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Okay, I haven't read all the responses...I did see that some people are suggesting a color bottle...I like this color applicator bottle.

http://www.rootsonly.com/index.html

It doesn't hold a lot of product, but definitely enough to cover a scalp. :) I think it holds around 4 oz. :)

Iphinoe
October 4th, 2008, 07:52 PM
Okay, I haven't read all the responses...I did see that some people are suggesting a color bottle...I like this color applicator bottle.

http://www.rootsonly.com/index.html

It doesn't hold a lot of product, but definitely enough to cover a scalp. :) I think it holds around 4 oz. :)

Actually, I was able to find squeeze bottles super cheap at Walmart in the kitchen/BBQ section.

As for rain, our average annual rainfall is 18 inches. If filtered water will do, I guess I'll try that.

Any weigh ins on a camellia oil comb?

suziwon
October 4th, 2008, 09:05 PM
It sounds like you have hair similar to mine. Always flyaway/frizzy regardless of how "heavy" the conditioner you slather onto it. And shine was something other women have, not me. Granted, my hair is about 6 inches shorter than yours, so ymmv with regards to what works for me.

I finally managed to get my hair *mostly* under control with the following routine: Apply conditioner from the ears down, placing extra emphasis on the ends. Use a small dollop of shampoo on the scalp, and work up a lather. Rinse well. Condition with same conditioner from step one, this time starting at the roots. While the conditioner sits, I wash the rest of me, then I rinse the conditioner out. After turning off the shower, I gently squeeze as much of the water as I can from my hair, starting at the nape of my neck. Because I cannot stand the feel of wet hair on my skin, I have not been able to give up turbanning my hair while I get dressed. However, I make the turban as loose as I possibly can while having it stay put. After I'm dressed, I take my hair out of the turban and let it dry for 10 or more minutes before adding a leave in conditioner.

My conditioner of choice is anything by suave. lately it's been either the blue one (the name of the scent escapes me), but I also like most of their other scents (lavender, strawberry, tangerine, and cucumber come to mind).

For shampoo, I've been having to use Nizoral for awhile now...CO angered my scalp to a level I've not seen in awhile. I also liked the jessicurl hair cleansing cream (http://www.jessicurl.com/) when I tried it and have plans to switch to it once I have my scalp under control (and I've made a note to try the catnip). As for my leave in, I really love Nightshade's Panacea (http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=15849888).

Anyway, good luck in your hair endeavors! I'm off to look into the catnip thing!

melikai
October 5th, 2008, 12:58 AM
How do people manage to put only a few drops of oil on the hair? I can't seem to get decent coverage that way without dipping the extreme ends in oil and then using a BBB to work the oil into the hair, as the oil moves onto the brush and then I slowly work my way up as if brushing out tangles. My hair seems to absorb massive amounts of oil and bellow for more.

I put 2-3 drops of oil in my palm and rub it between my hands. Then I hold my head out so that my hair (dry or very slightly damp) is draping downward and I lightly run my hands down the length, focusing on the bottom portion. Your hair is much thicker than mine and wavy, but try it and see if it works.




I'm really tempted to try camellia oil applied with an oil-soaked comb. What do you all think of that idea?

I feel like the comb wouldn't distribute the oil evenly. Btw camellia oil is great!

Honey39
October 5th, 2008, 01:18 AM
Oiling damp hair is really working for me at the moment; I have thick wurly hair, and at first, I was going really slowly with the oil (not over doing it!). But I have realised that when clean and damp, my hair takes a LOT of oil without looking greasy. So I've been using a big blob of coconut oil (cold from the fridge, so solid) - erm, like putting my finger nail in and scraping once around the outer jar, so quite a lot! And putting that on the right side, same amount on the left, same amount again on the back and canopy. I try to rub it in thoroughly from the ears down.

Anyway, this *seems* to be helping me a lot with my dry ends, as does adding honey occasionally to my conditioner. I don't shampoo, I condition-only wash every day. My hair likes getting wet every day; the days I don't, and have to scrunch etc, my hair feels kind of dry and off. So maybe my lots of daily oil is not the answer for you? BTW, oiling my hair when it is dry just doesn't have the same effect at ALL, has to be wet/damp for it to make my hair feel truely supple and moisturised all day.l

Gilly
October 5th, 2008, 02:07 AM
Okay, I haven't read all the responses...I did see that some people are suggesting a color bottle...I like this color applicator bottle.

http://www.rootsonly.com/index.html

It doesn't hold a lot of product, but definitely enough to cover a scalp. :) I think it holds around 4 oz. :)

I have already ordered something similar for my Daktarin experiment but I think I will see if they will ship it to Australia and if they do I will get one of these to as it looks more manageable.

KarenLynn
October 5th, 2008, 02:26 AM
A thought if you really like shea butter but your other half hates the smell, is to make something like Fox's shea butter conditioning cream. It's not as heavy as straight shea butter, but maybe it could be a workable compromise? There's a thread on it here somewhere, and the original recipe can be found on the Long Hair Loom.

Starr
October 5th, 2008, 03:30 AM
A thought if you really like shea butter but your other half hates the smell, is to make something like Fox's shea butter conditioning cream. It's not as heavy as straight shea butter, but maybe it could be a workable compromise? There's a thread on it here somewhere, and the original recipe can be found on the Long Hair Loom.

I second Fox's shea cream. But if your not much of a mixologist then you can always just buy REFINED shea butter and keep both you and your DH happy-it's all the conditioning benefits minus the smell.;)

Jamie Lynn 40
October 5th, 2008, 06:09 AM
Julya-
I was just wondering if you started from pixie length ( at the ears right?) in 2006? Your hair looks really long in your picture. How often & how much did you trim in that amount of time to get to the length you are now? Also, what was/is your current hair care routine? Thanks.
JamieLynn40

Qamar
October 5th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Any weigh ins on a camellia oil comb?

My hair gets insanely greasy with every oil I've tried except camellia oil. Its very light and my hair seems to just soak it up as long as I apply it on wet from the shower hair. Applying to dry hair just doesn't work for me--I end up with greasy stringy ends. Soft greasy stringy ends, but not the look I was aiming for. I divide my hair in half and put three drops of camellia oil on my palm. I rub my hands together enough to spread the oil out on my palm and stroke it onto one half of my hair, starting from the ends up. I then put another three drops on my palm and repeat the process on the other half of my hair. I've experimented and four drops per sode is too much for my haor to absorb. That may well change as it gets longer. I :heart: my boxwood comb to no end! It feels heavenly on the scalp and never gives me any static electricity as I comb my hair. I end up with super shiny hair and a happy scalp. (My scalp says that the boxwood comb is a combgasm). As for comb care, about once a month I take a few drops of camellia oil and rub it all over the comb. It soaks it right up and maintains the comb in good shape.

Iphinoe
October 5th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Julya-
I was just wondering if you started from pixie length ( at the ears right?) in 2006? Your hair looks really long in your picture. How often & how much did you trim in that amount of time to get to the length you are now? Also, what was/is your current hair care routine? Thanks.
JamieLynn40

I had a pixie in 1999. Pixie means really short all over the head, like Halle Berry's old short hair cut.

I cut it from hip-length to somewhere mid-back in 2003 as I'd broken my arm and found combing and washing super long hair too difficult. It was easily 6" inches or more, but because I wasn't the one who cut it, I'm not exactly sure.

This year back in March it was long enough that when I pulled the curl straight it would curve around my behind and touch the top of my thigh, but it was very straggly and the last 6" were very thin and my taper was more like this : \_ _/ than like this: \ /
\/ \/

Not sure if those will stay in the right spots, but I hope that clears it up. My hair care routine was Condition, Wash, Condition. For the last conditioning step, I'd usually put a deep conditioner on my ends and a regular conditioner on my length, bundle it up, and wash/shave to give my hair time to absorb the conditioner.

Iphinoe
October 5th, 2008, 11:38 AM
My hair gets insanely greasy with every oil I've tried except camellia oil. Its very light and my hair seems to just soak it up as long as I apply it on wet from the shower hair. Applying to dry hair just doesn't work for me--I end up with greasy stringy ends. Soft greasy stringy ends, but not the look I was aiming for. I divide my hair in half and put three drops of camellia oil on my palm. I rub my hands together enough to spread the oil out on my palm and stroke it onto one half of my hair, starting from the ends up. I then put another three drops on my palm and repeat the process on the other half of my hair. I've experimented and four drops per sode is too much for my haor to absorb. That may well change as it gets longer. I :heart: my boxwood comb to no end! It feels heavenly on the scalp and never gives me any static electricity as I comb my hair. I end up with super shiny hair and a happy scalp. (My scalp says that the boxwood comb is a combgasm). As for comb care, about once a month I take a few drops of camellia oil and rub it all over the comb. It soaks it right up and maintains the comb in good shape.

Mmm. Thanks for this; I was seeking enablers and for some reason they just weren't steppin' up to do their jobs! ;)

Did you get the 'rough' size or 'regular' size, if you got it from camelliaoil.com?

Qamar
October 5th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I got regular size teeth and am very impressed with both comb and the service at camelliaoil.com

Iphinoe
October 5th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I got regular size teeth and am very impressed with both comb and the service at camelliaoil.com

If only they weren't out of camellia oil at the moment ...

Leabhar
October 5th, 2008, 07:41 PM
I didn't catch if you'd already clarified, but my hair took a while to "detox" from cones. Any time I tried to oil while my hair still had cones in it, the hair got crunchy. It also doesn't like protein (got crunchy), so I stopped using QHMJ shampoo and protein-enhanced conditioners.

Maybe clarifying the ends more, and then oiling with EVOO (my hair didn't like coconut oil, and my body's allergic to it), will help, and then it's a matter of keeping the ends lightly oiled all the time until it soaks in.

If you have hard water, one thing that really helped me was to give my hair a final rinse with filtered water, then oiling the damp ends/length.