Rehabilitating my daughter's pool damaged hair

[LauraLongLocks]

My soon-to-be 12 year old daughter has terrible damage from the pool. Her hair is lifeless and dull, and like fuzz. It was down to APL, but only tiny wisps. I cut it to shoulder length, and a week later, I convinced her we needed to cut it to neck length because it was still quite wispy. Still, her hair is just awful. She wasn't wearing her swim cap to swim team practice, and wasn't washing out the chlorine afterwards, as I had instructed her. So, now it is really badly damaged.

This is my plan for the time being. Tell me if any of it looks like a bad idea:

Daily -

(if needed from over-oiling the night before) CO wash in the morning, with a cone-free on canopy, and a coney conditioner below the ears.
Detangle, use a cone-full protectant/detangler to give slip, some shine, and to help hide damage.
Apply jojoba to length below ears when hair is dry.
Wear in half-up or mini pigtails during the day to keep it from tangling.
Apply coconut oil, then wet hair down before entering pool.
Wear a swim cap in the pool.
CO wash with a cone-free on canopy, and a cone-full on length below the ears in the locker room.
Upon arriving home, on damp hair, detangle, using cone-full protectant/detangler.
Brush with BBB on dry hair before bedtime.
Apply coconut oil, and wear satin sleep cap to bed.

Weekly -

Use clarifying shampoo containing EDTA to chelate the chlorine build-up and wash it away.
Do an SMT treatment.

Monthly -

Measure hair, and cut at least half of the growth each month until the badly damaged hair is all cut off. The idea here is that she wants her hair to be long, but she has such badly damaged hair, it is breaking off (or maybe it's just dissolving in the pool water??). I may cut off ALL of the growth each month until we get to some healthier looking hair. What she has right now looks really, really terrible. What if it's not growing at all when I measure it because it's breaking or dissolving faster than its growth rate? What will I do then?

[florenonite]

Looks pretty good. One thing I'd add is to make sure the conditioner she uses after swimming has EDTA in it. When I was a swimming instructor I used to do that on days I wouldn't otherwise shampoo (I never managed to get CO washes to de-grease my hair, but it worked great when my hair was clean besides the chlorine), and it makes sure you're getting the pool water out.

Be careful about too much coconut oil before swimming, though, as you don't want it getting in the pool water. As long as it's all absorbed it should be fine, though. That being said, when I was on swim team the hair under my cap never got wet, so perhaps a different method of putting the cap on would help prevent damage? We always did it in pairs; one person would hold their cap against their forehead while a teammate grabbed the opposite side and pulled it up and over the hair, then switch.

[LauraLongLocks]

I didn't think about the conditioner after swimming having EDTA. Thanks for the tip. No matter how we put that silicone (or latex, doesn't seem to matter) swim cap on, it always seems to let some water in. We've done it in pairs, and she's done it alone. Doesn't seem to matter. And yes, I'll have her put the coconut oil in before we leave the house, so it'll have time to absorb into the hair, and she'll still rinse her hair and put the cap on before she enters the pool.

[Amygirl8]

When I was younger and swam a lot I had the same issue, my hair was hip length and really damaged from swimming (tbh though, I think most of it came from my mom blow drying my hair really hot after each time and then ripping through it with a fine toothed comb)
We had a lot of luck using a chlorine shampoo and conditioner though, I can attest that it help a fair bit in keeping the chlorine damage off. The brand is Ultraswim, if you want to give it a shot.

[LauraLongLocks]

I was using ultraswim, or malibu c, both of which are specifically made to remove chlorine. However, my daughter "forgot" to use it, or "lost" it in the locker room, and those shampoos/conditioners are expensive. So, I found out that the active ingredient to chelate and help wash away the chlorine is EDTA. VO5 strawberries and cream conditioner has EDTA in it, and no cones. Perfect for the canopy. Suave Tropical Coconut conditioner has EDTA in it, and some cones. Perfect for the length. Both these conditioners are way easier on the pocketbook than either Ultraswim or Malibu C. And Suave clarifying has EDTA in it, for our weekly shampoo. Perfect! Mom is so much happier now! And daughter will be delighted with the results when her hair is healthy once again.

[kganihanova]

:( I've been trying to get my little sister to start oiling to combat damage. She wants long hair too but REFUSES to oil or condition or do deep treatments. She also wears tight ponytails ALL the time and brushes when wet and wonders why she's been as SL for months while I've gone from APL to BSL. Kids...............

[kganihanova]

sidenote: she also swims a couple times a week for about two hours at a time

[LauraLongLocks]

Just wanted to give an update. So far, I've been able to hide some of the damage, and her hair is soft. It used to always feel like straw. Now it feels better, even though it is still quite damaged. It's like fuzz because of the pool damage, but now it's shiny, smooth, soft fuzz instead of straw-like fuzz. She's much happier with her hair now, and is complying with my demands that she must care for it the way I say. I've threatened her with a shave if she doesn't, and she knows I'll do it, because I've done it before. The coconut before entering the pool seems especially helpful.

She and I have discussed how we are going to cut the damage out. I gave her three choices: cut all her growth each month, cut half her growth each month, or wait for it to be grown out several inches and do a big whack and chop it off all at once. She chose cutting half her growth each month. I'm actually looking forward to measuring it every month and taking off half of it. Each month we'll be closer to healthy hair. Yay! I'll post a picture here tomorrow to show her hair now, and we can compare it in a few months.

[spidermom]

Good luck with all that, and congratulations on the improvement so far. The routine sounds like a lot for a 12 year old to keep up with. (My granddaughter is 12.)

[meteor]

I really like your game plan, especially the coconut oil. It will condition and add slip while really protecting from water and chlorine. She should put it on at least an hour (better: overnight) before she goes swimming because it takes time to penetrate the hair.
She can apply coconut oil way in advance and right before her practice begins saturate hair in tap water (or better: soft, bottled water) over 15 minutes to absorb as much water as possible (hair has a maximum saturation point after which it won't take in much more water once she's in the pool), then add a bit more coconut oil on top + swim cap, of course.
Another thing I'd do is use 2 swim caps instead of one, as you mentioned that the water still gets in. Some people only keep the hair dry-ish by wearing 2 caps at once.
The conditioner she uses after swimming should be very moisturizing, with oils and ceramides and possibly cones - masques marketed for recovering damaged hair are best.



She's much happier with her hair now, and is complying with my demands that she must care for it the way I say. I've threatened her with a shave if she doesn't, and she knows I'll do it, because I've done it before.
Please don't take it badly, but girls often have pretty serious sensitivities about their hair (just like us, LHC-ers :)), she clearly wants her hair long, even if she has not been great at protecting it until recently, but having one's head shaved or being threatened to have it shaved could be pretty traumatic on the receiving end.
I'm sure she'll learn to care for hair seeing the awesome results your hair care tips have given her! :)

[Theobroma]

I've threatened her with a shave if she doesn't, and she knows I'll do it, because I've done it before.

Seriously. :no:

[LauraLongLocks]

Seriously, anyone who would criticize me as a mom for threatening a shave... there are much worse things in life than waiting for hair to grow back. It won't happen if she takes care of it, and I'm helping her to take care of it by reminding her and by helping her with it at least once a day. The time spent with her and her two sisters (who also swim, and have nearly zero damage) doing our hair is fun "girl" time (and is driving my husband crazy... when can he enter the bathroom just to use the toilet? haha).

[kganihanova]

Seriously, anyone who would criticize me as a mom for threatening a shave... there are much worse things in life than waiting for hair to grow back. It won't happen if she takes care of it, and I'm helping her to take care of it by reminding her and by helping her with it at least once a day. The time spent with her and her two sisters (who also swim, and have nearly zero damage) doing our hair is fun "girl" time (and is driving my husband crazy... when can he enter the bathroom just to use the toilet? haha).

I agree with you on this. I see so many little girls with ratty hair that I wish there were more mothers like you!

[ErinLeigh]

Maybe for the post pool wash just do the cone-free wash and skip the cones? That way when you oil at at night it is really penetrating and not fighting to get thru the cones.
If she comes home after pool and doesn't need hair to look great for any event , I would do...
cone free wash after pool
detangle with olive oil at home then put up.
add the coconut oil (on the nights she does that) before bed and put up in the sleep cap.

She already does a coney wash at other times followed with jojoba oil right? When does that wash come in? If it is in the am, then the cone free night routine should be good for her hair.
Now, for coney wash she does, look for a product with CERAMIDES. Loreal Total Repar 5 with Ceramides is excellent for hiding damaged hair. Fantastic slip and shine. It really really seals those splits together. Google ceramides for damaged hair and you will get some good theads and reviews for people who are using them. There are real ceramides and synthetic ones. Loreal has the synthetic which seem to hold the damage together better IMO

I can only speak from personal experience but my keratin fried hair did its best when i started natural treatments at night for hair health, and used the cones/ceramides in the morning for sealing so I did not incur more mechanical damage in the day. (plus it looks great, cant visually see any damage at all now)

oh, also a vinegar rinse once in a while could help also. It has for me. I use cap full white vinegar diluted in a red solo plastic cup full of water once or twice a week.

[NymphSpirit]

Wow. The routine seems nice, I think it's a bit too much, I know I'd drown my hair if I did all that daily; but the beast has a mind of its own; it likes having some time alone a unbothered, even when at the beach/pool, overusing products and trying to pamper it always led me to it getting worse. Anyways you definitely know your daughter's hair enough to determine wether that's really helping or not, and in any case time will tell. I'm really looking forward to see the progress.


Seriously, anyone who would criticize me as a mom for threatening a shave... there are much worse things in life than waiting for hair to grow back. It won't happen if she takes care of it, and I'm helping her to take care of it by reminding her and by helping her with it at least once a day. The time spent with her and her two sisters (who also swim, and have nearly zero damage) doing our hair is fun "girl" time (and is driving my husband crazy... when can he enter the bathroom just to use the toilet? haha).

I don't know, personally I think it's a bit... harsh to threaten with something like that (even more so for most members of the LHC), and I know that had my mother actively threatened me with anything similar or done it, I'd probably hate having long hair, or any length of hair at all, since I'd link it to bad memories and violent dominance (not as the ordinary definition of violence, but as a primal instinct and basis for the human hierarchy systems) That's just me though, and it doesn't make or change any sort of opinion I might have (which I don't) of you as a mother.

As for the bolded part, a friend who's a pro swimmer always has her hair like you described, she's self conscious about wearing it down because it always looks terrible (I don't like the word but I couldn't find another; it's that bad!). When I was competing and spent 8hs in a pool per week, my hair was lovely even though I barely registered it was on top of my head!

[LauraLongLocks]

Maybe for the post pool wash just do the cone-free wash and skip the cones? That way when you oil at at night it is really penetrating and not fighting to get thru the cones.
If she comes home after pool and doesn't need hair to look great for any event , I would do...
cone free wash after pool
detangle with olive oil at home then put up.
add the coconut oil (on the nights she does that) before bed and put up in the sleep cap.

She already does a coney wash at other times followed with jojoba oil right? When does that wash come in? If it is in the am, then the cone free night routine should be good for her hair.
Now, for coney wash she does, look for a product with CERAMIDES. Loreal Total Repar 5 with Ceramides is excellent for hiding damaged hair. Fantastic slip and shine. It really really seals those splits together. Google ceramides for damaged hair and you will get some good theads and reviews for people who are using them. There are real ceramides and synthetic ones. Loreal has the synthetic which seem to hold the damage together better IMO

I can only speak from personal experience but my keratin fried hair did its best when i started natural treatments at night for hair health, and used the cones/ceramides in the morning for sealing so I did not incur more mechanical damage in the day. (plus it looks great, cant visually see any damage at all now)

oh, also a vinegar rinse once in a while could help also. It has for me. I use cap full white vinegar diluted in a red solo plastic cup full of water once or twice a week.

Thanks for all the great tips. Her hair, before I was helping her with it, never looked combed, and always felt like straw. It had basically turned to mush and had no life in it. It was dull, no shine whatsoever. It's still badly damaged, but it's amazing what a little TLC (tender loving care) is doing for it. She told me today she used to be SO embarrassed going anywhere because her hair never looked like she combed it. It was always a rat's nest, always snarled, and had the texture of twigs or straw. I asked her if the time she has been spending on it is worth it, and she said most definitely, YES.

"I agree with you on this. I see so many little girls with ratty hair that I wish there were more mothers like you!"

Thank you! I hate looking at ratty, badly damaged hair. Much better to have no hair at all than to have hair that is fried.

[LauraLongLocks]

So here are two pictures of my lovely daughter. She is a beautiful girl, and we will have hair to match her pretty face and delightful personality soon, I hope.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/Bestbirth/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/001.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Bestbirth/media/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/001.jpg.html)

The photo above was taken today (November 18, 2013). Any shine you see is product, not her hair. She has 1a/b, F, i hair. It's almost as fine as spider webbing, and looked like cobwebs before I stepped in to help her with it. The photo below shows how wispy it is, even after a major cut of about 4 inches of wisps/damage. She is a wonderful big sister, a gem in our family!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/Bestbirth/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/002.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Bestbirth/media/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/002.jpg.html)

ETA: The first picture is of DRY hair, with product in it to make it have at least a little shine. I added this bit of information after showing the picture to my husband and he thought the hair was wet. No, it's not wet. It just looks and feels like straw, with a bit of product added to help it have a small bit of shine.

[LauraLongLocks]

I wanted to show a couple pictures of her hair, before it was damaged. See how nice her hair can be?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/Bestbirth/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/003.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Bestbirth/media/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/003.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/Bestbirth/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/3Aug200902.png (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Bestbirth/media/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/3Aug200902.png.html)

[ErinLeigh]

I posted a thread called my" hair." You can see the keratin damage pics and the after results of just a little bit of LHC-TLC. I have a feeling the picture I posted that came out HUGE (was below the original post) will look a lot like what your described in the Dry, lifeless way. Have you done a protein vs moisture test to make sure she does need a little protein once in a while or is that all good?

As far as the mom thing, I get really uncomfortable when people make a judgment on a home life scenerios over a post. Opinions on mothering are not something that should be discussed lightly and snap judgements should be reserved. We are talking HAIR, nothing else. Mothering involves a highly complex and multifaceted relationship and not one that should be up for examining over a hair forum. Judging a mom based off a one sentence blurb is really harsh and not appropriate.

Mom said care for it or lose it....we tell our kids that about their toys, pets, clothes etc. If nice hair is something that is important to Laura then of course that one goes on the table too. I am all for building up a kids esteem, but home is the one place where honesty is best. If it looks bad and she was embarassed by kids at school commenting on it then maybe she needed this push towards better habits and learn to become personally responsibility for her hygine.
I would much rather Mom tell me "hon it aint good, lets fixe it" than have some pre-pubescent girl tease me over my hair. I mean we live in the real world. Teasing happens and as a mom you will do anything to prevent it happening to your kid.

Now if daughter starts to rebel against the routine, then that will be something discussed between mom and daughter. That wasn't point of post. OP is someone who seems very involved in their child's life and who knows their child and what motivates her much better than we do. I am not for the pansy way of raising kids. Sometimes you gotta be a mom and take control.

That being said, after seeing pics I say find a way to simplify routine ..co washing properly is hard for someone so small. Plus conditioner may not be enough to get the chlorine out. I would make her a diluted shampoo mixed with conditioner for post pool and put it in a travel bottle and just refill it every few days. I wouldn't run to run the risk of any chemicals left behind. I am talking wee bit of shampoo here every other wash. Some of the crunchy look is from chemicals still on the hair.

SO I am gonna stand with last post.
EVENING ROUTINE
Light wash with alternating days of cowash post pool (I still think ultra swim, Its $6 at Walmart and diluted should last looooong time. Why risk not using something proven..don't give her the whole bottle, premix it with water and conditioner and put in travel bottle daily)
Tiny bit of AVG on lightly damp hair or cone free leave in conditioner - optional
Detangle lightly with natural oil - olive is nice for dry hair and detangling (and sealing)
Let hair rest all night.
Sleep cap.

MORNING ROUTINE
Morning? I assume its am right?
coney ceramide wash, light spritz of oil, serum to seal, off you go.
**If you are running late sometimes and don't have time to do a wash , then grab a bottle of premade in advance...AVG, oil, water. This it is kimberly antifrizz. There is a thread on Mane Forum ,then follow up with serum to seal it in for the day.

2 times a week..1 night of SMT (leave in only 20-30 min) and 1 of night coconut oil/castor oil overnight repair mask. I just remember reading coconut oil can diminish effects if used too much and it is already added daily for swimming
I think simplifying the daily routine with be the easiest . It needs some manipulation-free time to heal as well.

[ErinLeigh]

fine hair is sooo fragile. Poor girl. I can relate.
On weekends, if you have time, I am find honey mixed with my co wash is soooo moisturizing. I am loving the results from it . :)

[LauraLongLocks]

Thank you, ErinLeigh, for your support and your suggestions. I really appreciate it. I don't know how to protein test or moisture test. Can you tell me more about that?

[florenonite]

Thank you, ErinLeigh, for your support and your suggestions. I really appreciate it. I don't know how to protein test or moisture test. Can you tell me more about that?

Start by clarifying. After her hair has dried it will either feel great, dry or gummy. If it's dry, obviously it needs moisture. If it's gummy, it needs protein. If it feels great, that just means there's some build-up but the hair underneath is fine.

[LauraLongLocks]

When we clarified the last time, it was super dry and brittle.

[ErinLeigh]

There is a test where you can drop hair in water and it will sink or float...and another where you pull the stand (of shed hair :))and if it stretches a lot it needs protein, if it snaps rights away moisture.
I think hers is just chemically dry. But still wouldn't hurt to do a light protein every few months just for balance since so much moisture is being introduced.
I use a a Vo5 with protein based conditioner mixed with a moisturizing one every so often juuuust in case :)

I can see you really care about her hair and i am glad. She will be a full fledged teenager soon who will care what her peers think about her hair. That is reality. She is going to be very grateful you took the time to teach her how to care for her hair and have it look gorgeous.

[slyviolet]

I just think it's so exciting to know that you are giving her skills for her hair that she will appreciate for her entire life. My mother loved my long hair when I was a little girl, but had no idea about caring for it -- brushing time was such a nightmare, she would start at the roots and yank the brush through until the tangles came out! I remember being in tears much of the time. I stole up to 5 of her hairbrushes and secreted them out of the house and disposed of them in various locations (I don't remember doing this)... one of them turned up buried in gravel under my kindergarten play structure, years later another was turned in after being found in a girls' bathroom toilet tank... So thank you on behalf of her from the future, I wish that my mom had known all that you do, and had been able to impart it to me.

[ErinLeigh]

hahaha skyviolet that is a cute story about the burying of the brush. :)
I know Angelina Jolie gets a lot of flack for not knowing how to care for daughter Zahara's hair. I think anytime you can teach a child something that helps them in life its is good. I know for instance when I became pregnant no one gave me any tips. This was pre internet and I had no access to books about pregnancy. I had never seen a baby at this point and knew nothing about what to expect. I had never in my life seen a stretch mark and had no idea they even existed. No one warned me about them or even offered a tip on skin care. I ended up getting a lot of stretch marks as I simply did not know to expect them or how to help prevent them. I used no lotion and a drying soap throughout that pregnancy and I really really wish my mom or someone would have taken the time to teach me a little about the changes that would happen to my body. It could have saved me a lot of future depression over my skin.

[ErinLeigh]

Laura if by chance you try the honey cowash on her hair please let me know what you think about it. I am in love with it but don't know if it only works on my hair.
Doing this took away a lot of dryness and gave nice volume. I prepoo with coconut oil, them simply mix honey and conditioner for the co washwash, rinse, then add a nice moisturizing conditioner to hair, rinse that off and done. Sometime I will add a vinegar rinse. Cap of white vinegar to big solo cup of water. sit 1 min then rinse.
It took all that crunchy dry feeling out of my hair. I swear it also unbent the tips (they had the 90 degree angle bend thing happening)

that routine alternating with my ceramide CWC followed with coney serum has helped me so much.

[homefrontgirl]

I just had to post to say I feel your daughter's pain about pool damaged hair. I had the same problem when I was younger from swimming all summer long. I go back to school in the fall with dry, haystack hair and for some reason is would be green? I don't know if that was from the chlorine, my poor treatment of my hair when I was little (I shudder when I think of what I did to it!) or too many chemicals in the pool. I mostly just let it grow out and cut off the damage and then it would start again the next summer. I eventually learned my lesson. My sister's hair was the same way (down to the green tint) even though we had Ultraswim. I think we'd forget to use it. I know we'd forget to wash our hair a lot.

Sounds like you have a plan and your daughter is lucky that you're there to help!

[LauraLongLocks]

The green tint is caused by copper pipes reacting with the chlorine. Thankfully, our YMCA pool does not have copper piping, so our hair is not green.

Erin, I'll mix some honey in with their home bottle of conditioner, but the other bottle is already in the rental locker at the Y. When it's time to replace it with a new one, how many parts honey to one bottle of VO5 conditioner?

[0xalis]

Oh my goodness, you may have helped solve part of the mystery as to why my little sister's hair is so whispy!! Chlorine damage would make so much sense [summer swimming + combined with general lack of care]

When I was a kid I swam a lot in a public pool and I NEVER would have EVER used a swim cap. However I think the reason I avoided damage was because I showered a lot during and after swimming. I'd get cold so I'd go into the pool bathroom and shower to get warm again. That's also what I did this summer, I saturated my hair with fresh water and then swam for a while, then I'd go rinse off again. I'd usually take a rinse-off shower when I got home, too, even when it wasn't my shower day. [We're poor, everyone in the house is only allowed to shower once every other day to keep the water bill down. It's good for our skin though, lol]

ETA: i hit submit before i was ready, lol!
I really hope your daughter doesn't rebel and cut all her hair off and destroy it in her teen years! I swear, whatever you try to make your kids do or be they tend to do the opposite... one of the main reason I don't want any!

[LauraLongLocks]

Slyviolet, I used to brush/comb my daughters' hair like that, but it was because I couldn't get them to stand still long enough to start at the bottom and work my way up. Their heads were literally all over the place and it was just grab and yank that comb through as fast as possible so it would be over with. It was awful for them and for me. One of my daughters is extremely sensitive, over-dramatic, and tender-headed, and she learned to take care of her hair so that mom wouldn't do it for her (I was happy whether she did it herself or let me do it, because going in public with kids that look ratty and ungroomed is really embarrassing, and makes me look like a bad mom... and yes, I worry about these things, because when people judge you and call CPS, it's not harmless). The same daughter who is dramatic and sensitive ripped right through her own tangles. I guess it didn't hurt when she did it to herself, but it was absolute torture if Mom did it? Thankfully, they have matured a lot, and now they look forward to doing their hair with mom's help. They enjoy looking properly groomed. What a relief for a busy mom of 11 children, to finally have girls that WANT to look decent in public!

[Brattina88]

It's funny, I came here to learn about preventing pool damage and helping "treat" the damage already occurring in my own hair.

In the summer I run a summer camp ages 6-10years, and almost everyday we walk to the pool in the afternoon. I've always been a big encourager of rinsing b&a swimming, and even more so allowing/encouraging the children to bring in shampoo/conditioner for after swimming since I've joined the forum. Some of the parents don't want or can't or maybe forget shampoo/condish... On our walk bar we would compare softness vs. straw-like (that's another long story lol)
The sad thing is, I just saw one of my summer camp girls yesterday. I know she's been trying to grow her hair out, and she hasn't cut since before summer. The last oh probably 3-4 inches of hair or so of her hair looks so sad, and I remember wanting to lend her mine all summer (it's technically against our state rules and regulations), it made me feel almost guilty. Her hair looks EXACTLY like your (OPs) daughters pics (only dark brown and the ends look almost bleached). I'm strongly considering putting something in next years summer packet about hair care by the dress code and hygiene parts... I see anothr girl very frequently, and she was a ritual s&c'er and her hair is in a completely different condition. If she "forgot" to shower, her mom would make her sit out the next day :/ although I can honestly say she never had to sit out!

[UltraBella]

My daughter is a competitive swimmer and practices 15hrs per week. No amount of layering silicone swim caps will keep her hair dry. None of her team mates ever exit the pool with dry hair - I have no idea how that works for some people.

She saturates her hair in the locker room shower before hand and she washes/conditions it immediately afterwards. Most swimmers shampoo really dries her hair out but Joico has a cheating shampoo that really helps her hair a ton. She uses the Joico k-pak protein treatment sometimes too which makes her hair a total dream.

It's definitely hard on her hair but it's past BSL and really pretty so we're managing to maintain okay. Good luck with your little girl's hair, she's adorable.

[ErinLeigh]

For daughter try maybe 70/30 (conditioner to honey)
I glob mine into my hand with no measurements. Trying to finish off a giant bottle of honey I have :)

[ErinLeigh]

The chelating Joico is on amazon. I am actually thinking about getting it for hard water damage .
I think the vinegar can help I believe. Doesn't it work with minerals and not buildup? SInce that is the problem is should soften hair nicely. That would be affordable also as I can see with 11 children how it would be hard to buy a lot of special products for only one head of hair.
11 heads is also a lot of hair to work with so its great they are learning to do their own. Plus they have you as a hair model so they can see the results of the effort of care.

[LauraLongLocks]

So, it's going to be our scheduled clarifying shampoo day tomorrow, and her hair feels strange to me. It's rough, but covered in stuff... conditioners and oils. I hope the clarifying shampoo isn't too harsh on her already damaged hair, but I feel it must be done, because the hair just feels so, so, gunked up. My other two daughters' hair doesn't feel like they need clarifying at all, so I think I'll just have them CO and we'll follow with our SMT. I will post again tomorrow after we're done. :)

[Tini'sNewHair]

Awwww your daughter is so gorgeous. You are the best mum any little girl could wish for :)

I'm also doing a mummy intervention on my little girl whos 6. Her hair is damaged from breakage, she has it down way to much and no matter if its a windy day, rainy etc. Because of this, you can actually see the broken hair on her length and i feel so awful about it :( Her hair is passed waist. I didnt even trim it for a few years... in fact her hair has been in a huge benign neglect.
So my plan is to, always braid it (before bed time and throughout the day), I cant braid my own hair but I’m pretty skillfull at braiding hers. I only wash her hair once a week and I noticed that her hair reacts very well to olive way while mine dosnt so that’s good…
We had our fights, even I had to threaten her that I will shave her head to *hangs head in shame*. It is up to me to take care of her hair and I think today will be the start for this. Last time we had a hair care routine, she actually liked it… so its my fault for not keeping at it.

Anyway, sorry I don’t have any tips for you and your daughter but I just wanted to say that you are doing an amazing job, her hair will get back to normal so all this efforts will pay off in the end. Don’t give up! Cheers

[LauraLongLocks]

Awwww your daughter is so gorgeous. You are the best mum any little girl could wish for :)

I'm also doing a mummy intervention on my little girl whos 6. Her hair is damaged from breakage, she has it down way to much and no matter if its a windy day, rainy etc. Because of this, you can actually see the broken hair on her length and i feel so awful about it :( Her hair is passed waist. I didnt even trim it for a few years... in fact her hair has been in a huge benign neglect.
So my plan is to, always braid it (before bed time and throughout the day), I cant braid my own hair but I’m pretty skillfull at braiding hers. I only wash her hair once a week and I noticed that her hair reacts very well to olive way while mine dosnt so that’s good…
We had our fights, even I had to threaten her that I will shave her head to *hangs head in shame*. It is up to me to take care of her hair and I think today will be the start for this. Last time we had a hair care routine, she actually liked it… so its my fault for not keeping at it.

Anyway, sorry I don’t have any tips for you and your daughter but I just wanted to say that you are doing an amazing job, her hair will get back to normal so all this efforts will pay off in the end. Don’t give up! Cheers

Thanks! I just realized that it may have been misunderstood... I didn't threaten in a rage of anger about the shaving... I said it, matter-of-fact, in case she needed any extra motivation aside from simply wanting her hair to be nice. I'm looking forward to seeing how her hair is after a clarify and SMT. :)

[MandyBeth]

The shaving possibly doesn't sound too harsh really. If she decides she really hates the care and wants an ultra short pixie - it's her head. Minion here knows she's got to put in the time for nice hair, or she can go short. Part of me is expecting a riot in teen years and short hair will happen. But, she really finds it annoying short because it listens less then.

Since her hair is gummed up, I'd try less stuff. Oil, then saturate with clean water, then a CWC wash after, add some aloe and go from there. Add SMT once or twice a week.

[RedNymph]

I used to be a lifeguard at my local pool and I hated having chlorine in my hair. If the treatments don't work, just let her hair be the way she wants it be. I'm not trying to put you off or anything but my mother used to fiddle around with my hair when I was younger. I hated it because she wouldn't let my hair be. It was crazy curly and she was always trying to "tame" it with organic stuff. It takes a while to get into a hair routine. I think giving her a hair routine is good but start her very, very basic. Something she could grow into. Ask her what would suit her whether she wants a haircut or start an oiling routine.

[ErinLeigh]

So, it's going to be our scheduled clarifying shampoo day tomorrow, and her hair feels strange to me. It's rough, but covered in stuff... conditioners and oils. I hope the clarifying shampoo isn't too harsh on her already damaged hair, but I feel it must be done, because the hair just feels so, so, gunked up. My other two daughters' hair doesn't feel like they need clarifying at all, so I think I'll just have them CO and we'll follow with our SMT. I will post again tomorrow after we're done. :)

Sounds like product buildup unfortunately.
Maybe alternating the co washes with a shampoo/conditioner is needed. Her hair looks as fine as mine and that is why I rotate my routine so much. Fine hair gets overwhelmed it seems. I thjnk the letting hair breath at night is good. I also think the honey will help. It takes out my coconut oil ( with conditioner better than anything. Hmmmm so maybe
Pre pool - water and thick conditioner.
post pool - shampoo and good conditioner / olive oil light spritz on damp hair? Put in spray bottle.
Any Additional. Washes : prepoo coconut oil. Co wash ( with honey).



Mine are just ideas. Whatever you think is best but maybe Time to experiment with the routine as the buildup came quick. That pool may be heavily chlorinated and co wash may not be doing enough on the post pool wash. That cowash is being asked to do a lot. Get coconut oil out and remove minerals. Considering its coney it's maybe tsealing in all that stuff instead if coaxing it out.

Have you tried the vinegar rinse ?
Huge help for me on minerals. I use white just cuz I'm blond but I think whatever you have shoudn be fine

[LauraLongLocks]

She has a big meet today and will be in the pool for a couple hours. Then we'll do the clarify and SMT. I think what I'm seeing is a build-up of oils on her hair. Last night after practice (and her CO wash), her hair was soft and nice, and not covered in gunk. Then we put coconut on it before bed and again, it looks gunked up this morning. Maybe she's putting on too much oil? Or maybe we should only slather on the oil right before swimming, and just do sleep caps without oil at night? Anyway, the good news is, her hair has grown about 3/4ths of an inch this month. She is excited to trim half the growth every month until we get to healthy hair. I'm going to wait to cut until the lunar calendar and farmer's almanac agree it's the best date to cut for lengthening, which would be December 4th or 5th. Hey, I don't know if there's any truth in it, but it can't hurt, right?

[slyviolet]

Slyviolet, I used to brush/comb my daughters' hair like that, but it was because I couldn't get them to stand still long enough to start at the bottom and work my way up. Their heads were literally all over the place and it was just grab and yank that comb through as fast as possible so it would be over with. It was awful for them and for me. One of my daughters is extremely sensitive, over-dramatic, and tender-headed, and she learned to take care of her hair so that mom wouldn't do it for her (I was happy whether she did it herself or let me do it, because going in public with kids that look ratty and ungroomed is really embarrassing, and makes me look like a bad mom... and yes, I worry about these things, because when people judge you and call CPS, it's not harmless). The same daughter who is dramatic and sensitive ripped right through her own tangles. I guess it didn't hurt when she did it to herself, but it was absolute torture if Mom did it? Thankfully, they have matured a lot, and now they look forward to doing their hair with mom's help. They enjoy looking properly groomed. What a relief for a busy mom of 11 children, to finally have girls that WANT to look decent in public!

I hear you, my mom had similar concerns about going out with me having snarls in my hair -- and I was such a Rocky Mountain tomboy, it wasn't just snarls -- it was often sap and pine needles to boot! I can't even imagine what that was like on her end... and I commend you for your magnificent mothering.

[TrapperCreekD]

I guess it didn't hurt when she did it to herself, but it was absolute torture if Mom did it?

I went through something similar with my mom when she was brushing and braiding my hair for me before I started doing it myself. I don't consider myself tender-headed but a lot of those stubborn tangles hurt, even though she was trying to be careful. I used rip through my tangles pre-LHC but I think the difference is that doing it on yourself you can feel when something's about to hurt and back off, and trying to gauge someone else's hair is harder.

[LauraLongLocks]

Thank you for the votes of confidence. Here are two pictures of her hair tonight after clarifying and doing an SMT treatment for an hour. There are no other products on her hair, just freshly rinsed from the SMT. First photo is without a flash, and second photo is with a flash. Wow, what a difference the care has made in such a short time! Her hair is actually shining. I haven't seen it shine for so long!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/Bestbirth/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/003-1.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Bestbirth/media/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/003-1.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/Bestbirth/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/002-1.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Bestbirth/media/Hair%20Gallery/Gwens%20hair%20rehabilitation/002-1.jpg.html)

[Jesabel]

Wow, her hair looks great :)

[ErinLeigh]

Big difference. :) Looks soft and shiny. If you gut is telling you it's oil buildup it is. That's the great thing about watching it so closely. You can catch things and alter the routine as needed. Whatever you are doing is working obviously so keep trusting your instincts and everything is going to be perfect.

[ErinLeigh]

I love SMT's * sigh.* They really brought my hair back from the dried and fried poof.

[Tini'sNewHair]

I can see a huge change already!!! :)

[Ambystoma]

Wow, such a huge difference already! Are you putting the coconut oil over silicones? I had a read through your routine but I wasn't quite sure. In any case, for me that always caused my hair to turn into a floofy dull mess every time, it didn't harm it, just looked awful, but I'm not sure how you would work around that if you want to use them together. Congratulations on making such a difference in a short amount of time, it's pretty amazing :)

[LauraLongLocks]

Ack! She swam on Wednesday and I learned from her sister that she didn't use anything on her hair in the shower afterwards. I feel like I'm hiking up a rock sliding mountain sometimes.

[kganihanova]

Ack! She swam on Wednesday and I learned from her sister that she didn't use anything on her hair in the shower afterwards. I feel like I'm hiking up a rock sliding mountain sometimes.

Kids can be so frustrating sometimes about hair!

[LauraLongLocks]

I can see a line of demarcation, about 1.5" of her roots, where we began taking care of her hair. Wow! She was amazed when I pointed it out to her. This is so exciting!

[LauraLongLocks]

We decided to try a cassia treatment on her hair. We used 100g cassia, and mixed it with water and conditioner and applied it immediately. We left it on for an hour. Her hair is slightly more golden and a whole lot softer and silkier and shinier. Very nice! We had enough cassia left over for her younger sistef to have an application of it, too. AND, we still have MORE that I put away in the freezer. It's not enough to do my hair or her older sister's hair, so I need to wait and buy some more before I get to do it.

[kganihanova]

I can see a line of demarcation, about 1.5" of her roots, where we began taking care of her hair. Wow! She was amazed when I pointed it out to her. This is so exciting!

That's great!

[MandyBeth]

Laura - have you tried chelating shampoo instead of clarifying? The chlorine doesn't get removed well via clarifying, and if she gets build up quickly, it may be due to the minerals. Apparently the snapping is related to that.

Henna can chelate some, so I'd suspect cassia may do some also.

[LauraLongLocks]

EDTA chelates, right?

You know what over-processed chemical damaged hair feels like? You know how it's basically mush? Well, that's what hair was before I started helping her with it. It's getting better, but that damage is definitely going to have to be cut off, which we are doing, a teeny bit at a time.

[biogirl87]

Laura, as far as I know EDTA does chelate. Hopefully other members will confirm.

[ErinLeigh]

will you post a pic of the cassia at some point? I am very curious to see how that turned out.

[MandyBeth]

EDTA does chelate. Some products wind up a little too dilute, Joico is reliable in my trials.

But, I use vinegar wash and club soda on adorably evil minion as she has major issues with shampoo/soap in her hair. Six years of dish soap, no conditioner, brush ripped through top coat, hard, tight solid mat in under sections, so she's earned the problems. It's better - it doesn't take one of us physically holding her down to get her head near water at least (yes, seriously. Had to do that for three weeks and avoiding as many washes as possible, but her hair - mostly the mat - was really nasty dirty and thus, had to wash some.) and she'll at least now get her hair wet in the shower. - so I'm not really trying to fix that. So we go no soap.

[Isilme]

If you let the cassia sit a little while longer the hair is going to get more golden, alternatively you can let it dye release for half an hour after mixing.

[abauer789]

EDTA chelates, right?

You know what over-processed chemical damaged hair feels like? You know how it's basically mush? Well, that's what hair was before I started helping her with it. It's getting better, but that damage is definitely going to have to be cut off, which we are doing, a teeny bit at a time.

I am so happy for you (and your daughter - who is gorgeous BTW!)! I had to intervene with my daughter's routine too when she decided to grow her hair long. I bought her a good shampoo and conditioner and a Kent paddle brush specially made for detangling long hair along with a BBB, taught her to oil the length and WOW, it looks beautiful. Most of these tricks I learned here at LHC! You are to be commended for taking the time and care to help her hair look as pretty as she is!;)