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Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 04:03 PM
Hi, haven't posted here for a while, more of a lurker.
Just got back from a hair salon where I had to cut of 5-6 inches of very dead hair, and have a couple of questions for the hair gurus.
First, let me describe my hair.
I have very fine blonde hair. I have a lot of it, but it's baby fine and almost translucent at the ends. In the summer my hair gets trashed by the sun, it bleaches out to almost platinum blonde in the front. I had a pretty bad accident a while back when I decided to experiment with a darker colour (end result was bleach on top of darker colour, orange hair, total freak out, a short hair cut, and a vow to never dye my hair again), but other than that haven't dyed my hair since.
It seems that it's impossible to keep my hair healthy, once it get past a bob stage, the ends look completely fried. I rarely blow dry my hair, a straightening iron is used on special occasions only, but it seems like even brushing my hair damages it. My hair grows (or seems to) super fast, the new hair on top look shiny and healthy, but after a while starts looking like a loofah. Seems like I have split ends everywhere.
Right before I chopped off my hair I was growing out bangs and layers, and that coupled with the damaged hair looked really bad. The longer layers made it look like I had about 10 hairs on my head, the ends were uneven and scraggly.
The hair dresser said that I have pretty decent amount of hair for someone with such fine hair, but that I should probably stick to shorter hairstyles because it's less hassle (anyone who had short hair before will argue with that lol)
I've had long hair before, it wasn't the greatest, but looked good more or less once it got past the shoulders.
Now it seems like I can't get past the shoulder length stage. The hair in the front looks the worst. I don't use many hair products because everything either weights down my hair or dries it out. Most smoothing serums make me look like a greasy wet rat, so I mostly use a light hairspray for the flyaways and that's about it.
Right now I seem to have a lot of new growth (eating healthier, maybe that's why?), so dealing with lots of short hairs on top of my head and the front
Sorry for the long post, but wanted to explain what we're dealing with here lol.

So, is there a hair twin somewhere out there? Someone with similar hair that was able to grow it past the shoulders and keep it healthy looking? How did you manage to do it? Share the secret :)

Is there anything I can use as protection for my hair? I tried a couple of uv protection sprays for hair, didn't do anything, I think it actually made me even blonder ha ha.

Anything less damaging than hairspray that I can use for fly away hair? The new hair on top of my head look like I have a slight halo going.

I recently read about hair lamination (gelatin + milk or water), supposedly coats and thickens your hair. Anyone try that yet?

I'm willing to put any food on my hair if it helps ha ha.

Pretty much any tips for growing out baby fine, thin, limp hair?
Really don't want to be stuck with a bob forever =)

My avatar is my profile picture as well. Can't attach pictures just yet so not sure if it's big enough to tell what kind of hair I have.

Thanks :)

lapushka
October 21st, 2013, 04:42 PM
You might want to check out the "fine and thick" hair thread for more advice. I'm sure it's around here somewhere. You could use the search function. :)

Oldfashioned
October 21st, 2013, 04:52 PM
Don't use hairspray because when you wash, brush, or whatever to your hair afterwards can rip apart the hair cuticle causing a lot of breakage that appears to never grow. Found that out the hard way... :) A good alternative is pure aloe vera gel. Just put a little in your palms and smooth it over your hair. Nothing else has worked for me in the products department other than coconut oil but it's used for hair health not styling. If you have split ends maybe a search and destroy session is in order? That's all I've got for ideas so I hope it helps. Maybe someone else has some other ideas?

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 05:00 PM
You might want to check out the "fine and thick" hair thread for more advice. I'm sure it's around here somewhere. You could use the search function. :)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Unfortunately the search function is not working for me for some reason. No matter what I type in, no results.
Love your name by the way =)

Katrine
October 21st, 2013, 05:03 PM
Checking out the Fine and Thick Hair thread as lapushka mentioned is a great idea. I have fine hair and thought I would add a couple suggestions.

You may want to cover your head with hats and scarves during the warmer months to protect your fragile hair. And from other elements as well if you live in a cooler climate. I would stay away from brushes, maybe just finger comb your hair gently. If you feel you must comb, maybe a nice wood comb for detangling gently after finger combing.

Finding a hair oil that works for you especially for your ends would help protect them. Also a satin pillow case to be gentle on your hair while you sleep. I found a cotton pillow case was not kind to my hair.

I don't know if you wash daily or not but it may help your hair to extend the time between washes (if your scalp will allow) And finding a good leave in. There are recipes here and many come up with their own to suit their own unique needs.

There's so much more, I'm sure you'll find lots of info in the fine hair thread previously mentioned. There may even be more than one for fine hair and you should find them in a search. It may help for you to conduct the search in google - I have found that when I do that LHC topics come up.

HTH :)

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 05:05 PM
Don't use hairspray because when you wash, brush, or whatever to your hair afterwards can rip apart the hair cuticle causing a lot of breakage that appears to never grow. Found that out the hard way... :) A good alternative is pure aloe vera gel. Just put a little in your palms and smooth it over your hair. Nothing else has worked for me in the products department other than coconut oil but it's used for hair health not styling. If you have split ends maybe a search and destroy session is in order? That's all I've got for ideas so I hope it helps. Maybe someone else has some other ideas?

Thank you! I have Jason 98% pure aloe, will experiment with that.
I've tried coconut oil before. Put in a tiny bit, and then spent the next 5 hours washing away the grease haha.
Argan oil is the only one that I can successfully wash out of my hair after a treatment.

Rio040113
October 21st, 2013, 05:10 PM
I'd start with oiling and gentle daily updos/braids (if/when your length allows). Experiment with your washing/conditioning routine. Use hair friendly combs etc. Is a sleep cap or satin pillow case an option for you? Instead of hairspray you could try a natural pomade or something like a flax seed gel? Google for recipes etc :) A hat or scarf coupled with an updo will protect your hair from the sun in summer. There are a ton of things you can do! :D

Rio040113
October 21st, 2013, 05:13 PM
Thank you! I have Jason 98% pure aloe, will experiment with that.
I've tried coconut oil before. Put in a tiny bit, and then spent the next 5 hours washing away the grease haha.
Argan oil is the only one that I can successfully wash out of my hair after a treatment.

A lot of people, myself included, find that conditioner seems to remove oil better than shampoo :) (YMMV of course)

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 05:14 PM
Checking out the Fine and Thick Hair thread as lapushka mentioned is a great idea. I have fine hair and thought I would add a couple suggestions.

You may want to cover your head with hats and scarves during the warmer months to protect your fragile hair. And from other elements as well if you live in a cooler climate. I would stay away from brushes, maybe just finger comb your hair gently. If you feel you must comb, maybe a nice wood comb for detangling gently after finger combing.

Finding a hair oil that works for you especially for your ends would help protect them. Also a satin pillow case to be gentle on your hair while you sleep. I found a cotton pillow case was not kind to my hair.

I don't know if you wash daily or not but it may help your hair to extend the time between washes (if your scalp will allow) And finding a good leave in. There are recipes here and many come up with their own to suit their own unique needs.

There's so much more, I'm sure you'll find lots of info in the fine hair thread previously mentioned. There may even be more than one for fine hair and you should find them in a search. It may help for you to conduct the search in google - I have found that when I do that LHC topics come up.

HTH :)

Thank you.
Brushes are the worst enemy. Especially the round bristly ones. I avoid those like the plague which will be hard with this damn new bob. Was wincing today when the hairstylist was blow drying me with one. At least she used a colder setting .
Google search seems to work better than the forum search. Found the threads. Going to be a loooong night.
I can go 2 days without washing, after that hair is staying tied up. It doesn't really get oily, just looks worse.
Thanks again

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 05:17 PM
Thanks Rio040113!
Only thing that was able to get the oil completely out was Dawn dish washing liquid (desperate times, desperate measures), and a sh*&ton of conditioner.

Emichiee
October 21st, 2013, 05:22 PM
Just a question to make sure I give the right advice - was your hair always like this?

Could it be something health or hormone related? Does not have to be anything severe. I am just asking because it is pretty rare for hair to be so fragile.

It could also be that your hair is lacking something. What do you eat?

Vrindi
October 21st, 2013, 05:31 PM
What kind of shampoo are you using and do you wash every day?
I have tons of super-fine hair, and had trouble growing it past bra-strap until I switched to a sulfate-free shampoo. Then I started stretching washes (this can take a while with fine hair, because it tends to show grease more, so be patient.) The desert summer sun did a lot of damage, until I started using coconut oil on the ends to protect it. I also try to wear it up most of the time, especially when I'm outside in the sun. For brushes, I use a bamboo wide-tooth comb and a tangle teezer. I also have a wood pin brush (whole foods has them) that I love. No static or flyways with wooden combs and brushes! Also, I micro-trim. Those of us with super-fine hair tend to get splits and damage much more easily. Micro-trimming a 1/4 inch every month or two keeps the ends healthy while still allowing it to grow. No more 6 inch chops! My hair is now tailbone length, so it is possible to have super-fine, very long, healthy hair.

Tini'sNewHair
October 21st, 2013, 05:32 PM
A friend of mine seems to have your hair type, hers seems to have stopped at waist length... Her hair is in a pretty bad condition sadly :( Ive been trying to stop her from the damage she does daily with TONS of hairspray, straightening and she never gets a trim or at least do S&D's which is very sad, her hair is sooooo beautiful even tho is it thin but its very beautiful. I say that you need to get a trim at least once a year and do S&D's in between, dont use hairspray at all!!! I dont have your hair type BUT I still get fizzy hair IF i especially dont brush my hair when its wet, I do it verrrry gently with a wide tooth comb and it helps sooo much!!! In the morning i use jojoba oil (only a drop) to smooth my hair out but you might need to use even less like half of a drop if your hair is so fine (you rub it between your palms then apply it all over evenly)… and use a sleep cap at night. I cant think of what else to say from here but I hope you get better advice  Cheers

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 05:33 PM
Just a question to make sure I give the right advice - was your hair always like this?

Could it be something health or hormone related? Does not have to be anything severe. I am just asking because it is pretty rare for hair to be so fragile.

It could also be that your hair is lacking something. What do you eat?

I recently had blood work done, problems with sugar run in the family, and I was a vegetarian (now eat fish) for about 14 years, so do analysis fairly often to see if anything is off or if I'm missing anything. Everything seems fine. My nails are also really strong, so pretty sure that everything is ok with the nutrients.
I think it's just sh*%ty hair. Me, my mom and my grandma got the short stick in the hair department. Everyone else from both sides of the family has really good thick hair. Us three are also the lightest ones with me being the blondest, so probably some glitch from some blonde ancestors DNA got passed down to us ha ha.
I eat pretty clean, try to not eat anything processed (freaking battle).
My hair got worse a couple of years ago after a bad hair dying incident. I cut it as short as I could then had to keep on trimming it to cut off all the dyed/fried pieces. Right before this hair cut it was the longest that I've had it for a while, so maybe I didn't get all the split ends when I thought I did and they just kept splitting the new growth? No clue.

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 05:48 PM
Vrindi- I use a couple of shampoos.
I got a Kalaya Naturals one that is free of Parabens/Sls/ Phosphate/Silicone. I also use Biolage by Matrix (like that one) and when I'm styling my hair to go out I use a cheap Revlon one that is probably horrible but it's the only one that seems to work for my hair.
I guess I'll try the micro trim method. Hopefully the hair dresser will understand.
When my hair was longer it would be easier to stretch between washes, with this new short style I can't put it up, so better invest in some kerchiefs and hats.


Tini'sNewHair- I'll experiment with different oils when I have time off from work.
So far coconut oil is out, I'll try jojoba and argan on dry hair see if it works.

Thanks for all the advice =)))

Emichiee
October 21st, 2013, 05:50 PM
Maybe in the future you could post a picture too? It would help imagining your hair type.

While it seems you are doing pretty good in the diet and nutrient department, it can still happen that something is missed during testing (happened to me), and also that some nutrients aren't absorbed well (malabsorption...also dealt with that before :/).

No one simply has "****ty hair" naturally :), of course genetics play a role but very fine and thin hair should still grow to a certain length and appear healthy until it hits a possibly shorter terminal. But I am saying something like a healthy looking APL- Waist length should not be too hard.

You classified your ponytail as i? So it measures under 5cm? How many hairs do you shed in 24 hrs?

AspenSong
October 21st, 2013, 06:00 PM
I think everyone has good advice so far - I just wanted to throw in, I've got nearly the same hair as you...and I'm just below Classic! Photos in my albums...it's def a possibility!!

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 06:11 PM
Emichiee, last time I measured it was between an i and and ii but closer to i.
Can't really measure it now because my hair is too short to get all of it in one go.
I seem to shed an average amount of hair, I wore my hair up most of the time, so in the evening when I took my hair down it was easy to see how much I lost. Nothing freakishly abnormal. I had friends do their hair at my house, and from what I've seen, I shed way less.
My hair does grow, and grows pretty fast, it's just that by the time it reaches my shoulders, it looks like crap :)
Is there anything in particular I should be testing for?
I tried taking biotin a while back, but it made me into a human chia pet. Was shaving constantly, and managed to grow one long hair on my chin ha ha.
I uploaded a picture into my profile, are you able to see it? It's a close up of my hair.
your hair by the way looks like a freaking shampoo comercial. Beautiful.

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 06:14 PM
AspenSong, I'm too new, not permitted access to other members profiles just yet, but good to know that it is achievable.

torrilin
October 21st, 2013, 06:40 PM
There's a lot of really nice heads of fine hair around here. Hypnotica is somewhere in the fingertip to knee range last I saw. MsBubbles, WaitingSoLong and I have all been past waist. (all of these are fairly straight since my type is fairly straight) I know there are also a lot of fine and curlies, but I don't remember names as well :). I know there are plenty of others too.

Past classic is pretty rare period. Not for reasons of genes tho. Even if your hair is totally capable of a given past classic length, chances are it's a 5+ year project in patience. I don't expect to go for anything seriously past classic myself... while I'm not precisely sure what my goal length will wind up being, I'm close. I'm trimming more regularly these days while I figure out exactly where it is I'll stop and maintain.

For my own personal head of hair, the dye saga you describe probably would not be a good idea. That goes about triple if I'm skipping conditioner or using any kind of heat on my hair. Conditioner is a must for me. My hair is a lot more resilient if I borrow tricks from curlies and detangle in the shower with loads of conditioner. And despite what shampoo ads often claim, for my hair, skipping conditioner is a sure route to having the drowned rat slicked to my head look. It doesn't take much heat to fry my hair, and it's so fine that any kind of blow drying leads to killer tangles. While my hair can handle the chemicals in a perm, trying to perm it doesn't do much of anything... the curls will just fall out. Perm solution strong enough to make the curl stick around at all will lighten my hair from dark ash brown to golden blonde. (yes, my hair will bleach if you look at it funny, but even for my hair that's a ridiculous change)

For pretty much everyone here, past waist length hair is a lot more about what we *don't* do than what we do. We don't ignore health issues. We don't wear our hair loose "too much", even tho too much varies a lot from person to person. We don't get hair cuts often... every 3 to 6 months counts as often around here. You can get a whole bunch more sometimes contradictory don'ts. The dos are a lot more variable. My sister describes my routine as "reaching new heights of laziness", which I think fits a lot of posters here.

Orange Queen
October 21st, 2013, 07:10 PM
Torrilin,
The bleaching out if you even look at it thing sounds exactly like me.
I had one of those home perm kits in grade 8 or 9, it made my hair seem thicker even though it didn't really curl, and gave me a bleach blonde look. Like alien bleach blonde. Completely burned off front layer of my hair leaving me with half an inch of spiky white hair. Let's just say I wore a lot of side swoops for about 3 months after that until it was passable for bangs :)
I hate ending up with two toned hair in the fall, read about a honey lightening method on here, seems harmless for your hair, and might even out my summer and winter hair so it looks more even.

Oddly, my hair doesn't tangle without conditioner. I use a tiny bit on my ends, and dilute whatever I'm using on top of my head. Too much makes my hair too sleek and stringy.
I stay away from heat too, rarely use a hot iron, and feel guilty when I do.
No idea how the hell I'm going to style this new haircut without a round brush (which I never use) or heat. Once the salon blowout deflates I'm going to experiment with barrettes or tucking it behind my ears or something.
My friend has super tangly hair, a bit thicker than mine, and she uses some kind of a toddler/kid detangler, I think it might be by Johnson and Johnson, maybe you will have luck with that?

Malibu Barbie
October 21st, 2013, 07:13 PM
My hair is pretty fine, but I have a lot of it. I do tend to braid it with coconut oil and grape seed oil. I only oil the braid hair I don't take it to the scalp and I wash once a week. I tend to wear one braid down the back or bun it with a hair stick. This gets rid of any static from the dry climate. When washing I wash the scalp but put Avalon organic's conditioner on the length to remove the oils. Sometimes, I leave the oils in for three or four days or for the whole week it depends on my hair. This has been working for me but everyone is different. My hair had been through a lot of trauma due to several, bad stylist recently. I've found a great stylist now and my hair is recovering nicely. I hope some of this can help you on your long hair journey.

P.S. I only oil like this when I'm not wearing it down. This routine leaves my hair very soft and manageable so it's nice when it's down.

Rio040113
October 21st, 2013, 07:43 PM
Thanks Rio040113!
Only thing that was able to get the oil completely out was Dawn dish washing liquid (desperate times, desperate measures), and a sh*&ton of conditioner.

Ouch! I find to get oil out, if it's being stubborn, it's usually best to completely saturate your dry hair in conditioner (a cheapie one, for the sake of your purse), let it sit for 5-10 mins (or more if you prefer), then give it a nice massage round, rinse it out thoroughly (a final rinse with cool/cold water seems to help) and shower as normal, s/c or co-wash, whatever you usually do :)

MsBubbles
October 21st, 2013, 08:12 PM
There's a lot of really nice heads of fine hair around here. Hypnotica is somewhere in the fingertip to knee range last I saw. MsBubbles, WaitingSoLong and I have all been past waist. .

I got a mention! :blushing: Thanks, Torrilin. Plus my hair is honored to be mentioned in the same sentence as WSL's, although WSL has medium-textured hair. Anyway...it's not about me :D.

I'm not sure why people recommended the 'fine and thick' thread, since the OP said her hair was fine and thin, but maybe that didn't come til later down the thread. There are a lot of "Hairdresser said my fine hair would never grow long" threads around here, as well as 'fine and thin' threads, as opposed to fine and thick. I usually google the site address and then the term I want to find on the site. It's an effective way to search the site for anything on the public sections of the board.

Yes, hairspray is a big no-no for us fine/thin haired people. As are perms and long-term heavy bleaching.

Sounds like you need to rule out mechanical damage (hairspray, ponytail holders, vigorous towel-rubbing, heat styling, past bleaching, cotton pillowcase rubbing, etc), and also look into nutritional or health issues. Thyroid issues - either hyper or hypothyroidism - can cause hair to be brittle, but it's fixable for the most part when you remedy the thyroid problem.

There is so much info here on this subject! People generally recommend trying only 1 change at a time perhaps for a few weeks each, to see what works, rather than changing everything at once. I hope you can figure out some tricks here that will make the best of your particular hair! Not all things work for everybody, so pick and choose what works for you!

Panth
October 22nd, 2013, 12:15 AM
Go check out Pinkbunny's youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-y9fkJiQ3U). She is, from memory, a i and was at knee a year or two ago so may even be longer now.

Neither fine hair nor thin hair automatically disqualifies you from having long hair.

(Oh, P.S. the LHC search thing is always broken/useless. If you want to find something on here the best way is to go to Google and then use the advanced search function (located by clicking on the gear icon in the top right after you search for a word set) and typing in the URL for LHC.)

red-again
October 22nd, 2013, 01:28 AM
You've had great advice and suggestions here so far, just wanted to chime in about the fine and thin hair thread - the search function won't come up with it, it seems pretty useless when using it directly on this site. I'd search on google, look for "fine and thick hair long hair community"
You might have better luck, in fact I just went and googled it and various ones come up. Good luck!

lapushka
October 22nd, 2013, 04:53 AM
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Unfortunately the search function is not working for me for some reason. No matter what I type in, no results.
Love your name by the way =)

Thanks so much!!! :)

Here you go! (advanced search is lovely, when you search "titles only")
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=24724&highlight=fine+thick

Emichiee
October 22nd, 2013, 07:47 AM
Emichiee, last time I measured it was between an i and and ii but closer to i.
Can't really measure it now because my hair is too short to get all of it in one go.
I seem to shed an average amount of hair, I wore my hair up most of the time, so in the evening when I took my hair down it was easy to see how much I lost. Nothing freakishly abnormal. I had friends do their hair at my house, and from what I've seen, I shed way less.
My hair does grow, and grows pretty fast, it's just that by the time it reaches my shoulders, it looks like crap :)
Is there anything in particular I should be testing for?
I tried taking biotin a while back, but it made me into a human chia pet. Was shaving constantly, and managed to grow one long hair on my chin ha ha.
I uploaded a picture into my profile, are you able to see it? It's a close up of my hair.
your hair by the way looks like a freaking shampoo comercial. Beautiful.

Yes, I saw the picture! Your hair neither looks extremely fine or thin on it. It looks quite full.
Maybe instead of styling it with a round brush you could use water waves to get it a nice look? That is what I did at shorter lengths because my hair would fall weird and one side turn in amd the other out :/. I just bunned it with claw clips while damp. High buns work best. Less bunning results in less waves.
Too much brushing and handling can at least cause some mechanical damage.

If the biotin helped your body hair grow it means that it also benefits your head hair ;) Sometimes we don't get much biotin in our diet. I eat a lot of egg and the yolk has biotin.
The doctor will test for a few common vitamin deficiencies, but if you are able to request a few you could get iron and ferritin tested, zinc, Vit. D, B Vitamins (also B12) and to make sure it is nothing health related you might also have your thyroid, prolactin and cortisol tested and maybe a full hormone panel.

Your hairs condition can be frail when you are dealing with these conditions as well. My hairs texture was affected by thyroid and hormones and got more brittle. Since having gotten rid of these problems, my hairs texture has slowly been improving and its shine is coming back too :)

And thank you! :flower:

Anje
October 22nd, 2013, 08:18 AM
OK, first things first -- from what I read, I think you probably need conditioner. It doesn't need to be heavy -- in fact, I'd suggest you try something really light, like VO5. Concentrate on putting it on from ears down, so it doesn't weigh down the hair on top of your head as much. Whether it helps with tangling or not, it'll help to keep your hair more moisturized and supple so that it won't get frizzled.

Second, it sounds like you've run the gamut on combs and brushes and you know that a lot are bad. Let me point you to some examples of what is good: The Body Shop makes an excellent wooden detangling comb (http://www.thebodyshop-usa.com/hair-care-products/hair-brush/detangling-comb.aspx) and the Tangle Teezer gets a lot of love as a brush. (http://www.tangleteezer.com/index.php) Even with good quality ones, for folks with straight hair it's best to wait til your hair is dry, then start combing at the ends, moving up only when you've got the bottom few inches sorted out. Above all, go slowly and do not rip through tangles. More than anything else, changing how I combed my hair has changed the quality of my hair. Be patient, and don't comb when you're rushed or upset.

You might be the sort who has to put your hair up much of the time to avoid damage. Ponytails and little peacock twists held by jaw clips are good when it's short, but once it's long enough it's a good idea to switch to buns that have the ends tucked inside. I personally have issues with my hair breaking just from ponytailing due to the elastic (especially if it's in the same place all the time), so I'm fond of more distributed methods of holding the hair. Clips, hairsticks, Amish-style hair pins, hair forks, and so on work well. All the same, make sure they have smooth edges and don't be afraid to take some fine-grain sandpaper to any sharp-edged seams that the plastics get from the molding process.

Honestly, for my delicate hair, that's about all it takes. Conditioner, gentle combing, and styles that protect the hair so it doesn't rub on things. The rest is what I don't do. I don't use hairspray (drying!), I do very rare heat styling, I generally don't blowdry or use a cold setting when I do, I don't rip through tangles. Try some aloe gel, alcohol-free hairgel, or make some flaxseed gel to hold the odd flyaway.

Mainesongbird
October 22nd, 2013, 08:40 AM
If brushing seems to be a problem, maybe using a different kind of brush, like a tangle teezer? Just a suggestion =)

torrilin
October 22nd, 2013, 09:24 AM
I'm still boggling at the mere concept of waiting for a blowout to deflate. Giving my hair a voluminous look is just not a realistic goal. Attempting things like blow drying for volume or combing for volume works... for about 15 minutes, max. Even with a chin length bob, my hair flattens out visibly. No need for time lapse photography!

I mostly regard this as a good thing. It was very easy for me to accidentally develop the habit of not using heat styling because it just doesn't work on me. And since my hair can't take much heat, that has saved me from a lot of damage over the years.

So yeah, our hair sounds like it's at different extremes of the fine spectrum. Mine floats in a huge but largely invisible halo, even past BSL. Wearing it down may have gotten me some compliments, but I hated it because even a few minutes of down would result in tangles. So I got solidly into the habit of up 24/7 to minimize the tangling. Now that it's past waist, it's less floaty. I still don't wear it down often tho, because up is a good habit and it's easy and lazy. And really, no one needs their hair acting as a 3 foot wide personal defense perimeter. Regardless of length, it sticks like velcro to a wide range of different surfaces. It gets extra sticky feeling when wet. And it felts easily, forming dreadlocks or mats if given any opportunity. So I've learned it doesn't get the opportunity. Prevention is (for me) the way to go. It sounds like yours is much less aggressive, or maybe your tolerance for tangles is different. Heck, maybe you like combing more than me :). All kinds of stuff will affect your routine, and even if you find someone with very similar hair, their routine may be very different.

Spray detangler was a godsend when I was little. But I have a lot of different reactions to fragrances, most of them bad, so these days a spray detangler is not a good idea. It's a lot easier for me to get conditioners that I can use safely. (the fragrance issue means most styling products aren't an option... again, I mostly consider this a good thing, since it makes it easy to say no to a lot of products that aren't necessarily good for my hair.) And well, on the fragrance thing almost everyone is less sensitive than I am. Heck, in a family full of people with fragrance reactions, I serve as the test bunny because I react to so much more than everyone else. So it's a safe bet that your mileage varies from mine on this :).

Orange Queen
October 22nd, 2013, 09:29 AM
Thanks guys!
Loving all the replies.
Emichiee, thyroid is fine (knock on wood), no vitamin deficiency, have a check up coming up soon, will ask for hormone panel.
Figured out the forum search issue, read so much about hair yesterday, starting to go cross eyed here :)
Today woke up with a deflated blow out, half of my hair sticking up, the other one plastered to my head in squiggles. Trying my best to stay away from hair products. The blow dryer is calling out to me haha. Will try to sleep with some sort of a roller on dry hair set up tonight, otherwise will have to go to work wearing a hat tomorrow :)
This board has so much info, can see this being a huge time suck.
Thanks again ladies!

MsBubbles
October 22nd, 2013, 10:17 AM
Going to the 'Fine and Thick Hair' thread can be pretty demoralizing for a fine/thin haired. So here is the fine/thin hair thread: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=17115

What works for fine hair, period, is good info, whether fine and thick or fine and thin, but things like volume just aren't going to happen for fine & thin unless you have lovely natural waves with it.

Anje
October 22nd, 2013, 10:34 AM
Ah, hats.

I'm a hat-wearer. It's not always completely compatible with being a bun-wearer, unfortunately, but I do try to make both work. In my case, it's because my hair isn't all that great at blocking all sunlight to my scalp, combined with watching my husband have to deal with getting a basal cell tumor removed from his scalp, where he's got normal-thickness hair. He looked surprised for a week or two til his scalp stretched back out after they removed a chunk of it!

Orange Queen
October 22nd, 2013, 01:24 PM
MsBubbles- volume does happen. In all the wrong places, Though lol, like when you wake up and half your hair is sticking up full of volume :D
Or when you come from a hair salon and the top of your head is super voluminous, making the ends look even more thin in comparison.

torrilin- Oh no, must be so hard to find unscented anything. I'm fine with scents, but an ex sister in law would get horrible headaches just passing by someone who wore perfume. Always felt bad for her.
Don't be too boggled :) , whatever volume I miraculously had yesterday is gone now, today my hair just hangs there, looks funny, like someone cut around my head with a bowl because whatever was curled under, is now stick straight.

Anje- Ack, that sounds painful and scary. Hope everything healed right. My real name is really close to Anje btw (not that it has to do with anything lol).

Can't wait till I'm able to clip the hair back, not used to it just blowing around.
Thanks to everyone for recommending Aloe Vera gel. It really works and doesn't leave a residue.

Emichiee
October 22nd, 2013, 07:14 PM
I made a lot of knit hats and knit headbands for bad hair days. Its a really good alternative!

MsBubbles
October 23rd, 2013, 09:03 AM
MsBubbles- volume does happen. In all the wrong places, Though lol, like when you wake up and half your hair is sticking up full of volume :D
Or when you come from a hair salon and the top of your head is super voluminous, making the ends look even more thin in comparison.

Oh I meant 'naturally', without the aid of damaging heat, perms, or as a result of having damaged hair.

cranberrymoonz
October 23rd, 2013, 10:17 AM
it seems like even brushing my hair damages it.

This is most probably true, therefore, be very careful when detangling. Try braids and buns and you will find they prevent the hair from tangling and you will get away with brushing less. Get yourself a nice gentle detangler like a tangle teezer. I find wooden combs don't work that well on fine&tangled hair: they are certainly gentle when you only have a few tangles to comb out(e.g. after wearing a braid), but for more serious work I find that they don't 'give in' at all and that they pull on your hair and don't actually detangle it.

Have that said, general hair care for fragile hair is all about protection, strengthening and tender love&care. Enough has been said by others about protection, so definetely try some of these great methods mentioned above:)

Some hair care ingredients may strengthen your hair to make it easier to take care of,like henna and cassia treatments. Also, if your hair is rather porous it may benefit a great deal from having some protein in your conditioner or hair mask. (collagen, keratin, wheat or silk protein).

Lastly, use some TLC and make sure not te dry out your hair. Use a gentle washing method, lots of conditioner (ears down only or it will make the top greasy) and argan oil is GREAT for sealing in moisture and smoothing the cuticle. Try it as a leave in on damp hair if you haven't allready.

Good luck and HTH!

cranberrymoonz
October 23rd, 2013, 10:21 AM
Thanks guys!

This board has so much info, can see this being a huge time suck.


Very true, most of us are addicted. :doh:

Firefox7275
October 23rd, 2013, 12:23 PM
One obvious solution is to stop letting your hair get trashed by the sun, start wearing very close weave hats or scarves such as the UV Buffs. One you have damaged hair it is especially prone to other sorts of damage since the cuticle and fatty protective layer are reduced and the hair becomes more porous. IIRC two hundred hours of sun exposure damages equivalent to chemically bleaching hair.
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2008/cc059n04/p00303-p00315.pdf

Yes brushing is known to be damaging, consider doing so very gently no more than once per day, finger detangling or wide tooth combing at all other times.
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2007/cc058n04/p00477-p00484.pdf

Hydrolysed protein can be a godsend for fine or damaged hair, gelatin is the only food item that is rich in this but it is also found in various products - hydrolysed protein can strengthen and volumise. Other beneficial ingredients for damaged hair include coconut oil, ceramides, 18-MEA and panthenol - these can all penetrate or patch repair the hair. Products that contain several of these include Komaza Care Matani repair treatment spray and Scientific Essentials hair conditioner.

Hairspray is not great, the alcohol can be drying and it glues the hairs together ripping them apart when you brush. You might consider smoothing stray hairs with film formers like aloe vera gel, flaxseed gel or okra gel. Many of us find that quitting anionic surfactant shampoo (sulphates and olefin sulfonates) causes less damage and calms flyaways: this is because anionics change the electrical charge on the hair.
http://www.pgbeautygroomingscience.com/hair-spray-accumulation.php
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair?page=4

Orange Queen
October 23rd, 2013, 01:24 PM
Thanks ladies, great advice! :)
I have argan oil, that stuff is amazing for skin, I go through bottles and bottles of it.
I use it for deep conditioning (or deep oiling, sorry don't have the terminology yet) sometimes because it's the only oil that's quick to wash out. I had some success putting it on dry hair, but only on top when it's tied up, because even a tiny bit on the ends makes it look like an oil spill. It makes your hair super shiny though.
I'm using a wooden sparsely toothed comb right now, and being super gentle with it.
Now that the hair is short I find it doesn't get tangled at all, I just have to re wet it to get the bends out and to get it to go where it's supposed to. So far Aloe Vera is working, and my ears are acting like curlers to get a slight curve in the front lol. Actually got a compliment at work today that my hair is golden and shiny.
My hair is super porous (especially in the front), so I will be trying a gelatin treatment sometime this weekend. Been reading good things about it. I'll try to take before and afters and report here if it worked.