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PrairieRose
October 15th, 2013, 07:30 PM
I have not seen anything on here about this recently.
Supposedly if you rub your nails together against each other it can stimulate your scalp. There are nerve ending under your nails that connect to the scalp. Nail rubbing for 5-7 minutes twice a day can help reduce excess hair shedding, regrow hair, grow hair longer and even help with greys.
Has anyone tried this? What have your results been?

HairFaerie
October 15th, 2013, 08:07 PM
Yes, I have done this. Unfortunately, I didn't do it every day. I would forget about it for a few days or a week and then do it for a few days. It was during the winter last year and my hair usually grows faster during that time anyway, so there is no way for me to confirm that the growth came from the nail rubbing. Sorry, I am not much help...

Leeloo
October 15th, 2013, 08:32 PM
I've started a thread about it a couple of months ago after I found an article about it and got very negative response here. Here is the link to that thread:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=114263

Most people said they wouldn't even try it. Not sure why it got such a response. I thought most people here would try a new type of massage if it promised an increase in growth rate. I didn't try it after LHCers deemed it not worthy, so not sure if it works.

jeanniet
October 15th, 2013, 08:51 PM
I wouldn't call the responses you got "very negative." I think most people just have better things to do. If I was desperate--thinning hair or whatever--I might consider it, but otherwise, hair grows regardless. There's only so much time in the day, and I don't think most people can spend that much time on their hair.

Venefica
October 15th, 2013, 08:59 PM
I have never heard about this so I would not know if it works or not, I do want to say though that there is a alternative therapy from which is called zone therapy where one massage the feet and sometimes hands to affect all of the rest of the body, so for example if you have a headache massaging your big toe might help, there is also a form of acupuncture where one only use the hands and the feet, this was developed back when Taoist doctors where not allowed to touch a woman other than her hands and feet, many also use the ears to affect all of the rest of the body. Many such systems of alternative therapy have the theories that one can affect the nerves of one body part by touching another, or it's Chi, energy field or energy flow. Now these methods are not proven off course but in my experience they are very effective, this could be something like that and fingers would correspond to the head in zone therapy, whatever or not this method do anything though I do not know.

PrairieRose
October 15th, 2013, 09:30 PM
I've started a thread about it a couple of months ago after I found an article about it and got very negative response here. Here is the link to that thread:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=114263

Most people said they wouldn't even try it. Not sure why it got such a response. I thought most people here would try a new type of massage if it promised an increase in growth rate. I didn't try it after LHCers deemed it not worthy, so not sure if it works.
Opps sorry:( I looked but did not find a thread on it. Well anyway, I am going to try it. I have been doing it for almost 3 weeks. It really does not take that much time. The front of my hairline has thinned more than I would like. It's worth a try. If nothing else my nails look very shiney!

Leeloo
October 15th, 2013, 09:42 PM
I wouldn't call the responses you got "very negative." I think most people just have better things to do. If I was desperate--thinning hair or whatever--I might consider it, but otherwise, hair grows regardless. There's only so much time in the day, and I don't think most people can spend that much time on their hair.

I understand that most people have better things to do, that's why I didn't post that question on facebook or some other general social media. This site is hair specific with a bonus of other type boards, so I was expecting that people who have better things to do not to take time out of their day and respond saying things like I have better things to do.

Leeloo
October 15th, 2013, 09:46 PM
Opps sorry:( I looked but did not find a thread on it. Well anyway, I am going to try it. I have been doing it for almost 3 weeks. It really does not take that much time. The front of my hairline has thinned more than I would like. It's worth a try. If nothing else my nails look very shiney!

Sorry for the bad link :o I'm not sure how to fix it. It keep coming up the same. Anyway, that thread was not very informative.
When I tried it, I did feel the scalp tingle, but didn't try it long enough to see if it increased growth rate. Hope it works for you. After reading this thread I'm thinking about giving it a go.

Panth
October 16th, 2013, 12:51 AM
Use a bit of logic. How on earth is that even supposed to affect hair growth!?

donnalouise
October 16th, 2013, 01:19 AM
It could stimulate better bloodflow maybe? By moving your fingers you are encouraging blood to flow to the extremities... i'd think it has a similar effect to the 'inverting' topic that was on here recently where you hang your head upside down. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss things that can appear illogical at first, if it works then go for it. It's not something i'd consciously make the effort to do myself, i'd rather hang my head upside down as i hate the feeling of my nails against each other, but i think if this works it can be good to develop the 'nail rubbing' habit when you are sat around not doing much and it'll become something you do without realising after a while. It also has the added bonus of occupying your hands so it could be a good strategy for those that fiddle with their hair too much or have trich issues, a positive action to replace the negative one. If the only benefit is that it stops the breaking off of an extra hair a day from trich then i think it's well worth doing.

CurlMonster
October 16th, 2013, 01:29 AM
I think if you're going to spend 5 minutes doing something to stimulate your scalp, a scalp massage would be a better choice. Even if this worked a bit, I expect that the results would be less 'potent' than from massaging the scalp directly.

Bagginslover
October 16th, 2013, 02:25 AM
I was told about this a while ago by a colleague who is Indian, its a traditional hair growth remedy in India apparently, and her family swear by it. I tried to take up doing it while I was sat watching a TV programme, but found I couldn't remember to do it every day, maybe I'll try again.

PrairieRose
October 16th, 2013, 05:32 AM
I have never heard about this so I would not know if it works or not, I do want to say though that there is a alternative therapy from which is called zone therapy where one massage the feet and sometimes hands to affect all of the rest of the body, so for example if you have a headache massaging your big toe might help, there is also a form of acupuncture where one only use the hands and the feet, this was developed back when Taoist doctors where not allowed to touch a woman other than her hands and feet, many also use the ears to affect all of the rest of the body. Many such systems of alternative therapy have the theories that one can affect the nerves of one body part .
I think this is along the lines of how it works. I have read it is related to accupunture, in how it works. When I do it I do feel my scalp tingling. From what I understand, results can be seen in a month but it will take up to six months to see full results. I will update later how it works:)

furnival
October 16th, 2013, 06:33 AM
I'm not going to comment on the practice of rubbing fingernails together. :p

What I want to point out is that there are three totally obvious, logical, simple methods that have been proven beyond doubt to increase blood flow to the scalp.
1: Exercise. Why does your face go red after you've run up a hill? It's blood being forced to the surface. Exercise gives your circulation the biggest boost it can get.
2: Warmth. Why does a patch of your skin go red if you lean on a radiator? It's blood being forced to the surface. Why must you never place a hot water bottle on a hypothermic patient? Because it draws blood to the surface.
3: Massage. Why does pinching your cheeks make them flush? It's blood being forced to the surface.

The number one way to increase blood flow to your scalp would be to do some exercise, stand under a nice warm shower, wrap a lovely warm towel around your head and finish off with a scalp massage. Then you can rub your fingernails together for a bit if you're into that sort of thing.

Venefica
October 16th, 2013, 06:52 AM
Use a bit of logic. How on earth is that even supposed to affect hair growth!?

It could stimulate acupuncture points which could correspond to the hair, I am not saying this is the case but that could explain it. Also nails and hair are bade of the same material, it is possible that stimulating one could get the body to produce more of the material in general. Everything in the body is part of one big system after all.

summergreen
October 16th, 2013, 07:34 AM
I've been doing nail rubbing too. The problem is remembering to do it! It doesn't cost anything, feels pleasant and is easy to do while watching tv or just taking a break sitting down with a coffee. It's a form of hand reflexology. I'm keeping an open mind about it :)

Bagginslover
October 16th, 2013, 07:57 AM
I've been doing nail rubbing too. The problem is remembering to do it! It doesn't cost anything, feels pleasant and is easy to do while watching tv or just taking a break sitting down with a coffee. It's a form of hand reflexology. I'm keeping an open mind about it :)

^this

What and who does it hurt to try it out? :)

Peggy E.
October 16th, 2013, 08:15 AM
My question is this: How do you perform the nail rubbing? Nail upon nail, one at a time? Or all of them together, in which you have a bit of a problem with the thumb?

Kind of messing around with it here and I've found I can't do them all together due to the arthritis in my hands. One on one I can do, but this introduces a bunch of other issues - five minutes per pair for instance?

I spend a great amount of time every evening massaging my scalp and moving the sebum down the hair shafts, which is making an amazing difference in my hair quality. I see nothing wrong with a few minutes additional with nail rubbing - if you think it's silly, don't do it!

We just don't know everything there is to know in the natural ways of this earth. So we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss something because it sounds different from what we know.

That being said, still don't know how to do this!

Lyv
October 16th, 2013, 08:20 AM
I used to rub my nails together all the time because I liked the way it felt but my mom hated it so I stopped. I didn't know it could help with growth at all so I wonder if it was part of the reason my hair grew so fast (which my mom also hated haha) or I suppose it could have just been because I was young. I might try it out and see if my growth changes any and if not maybe it'll help out my nails. Doesn't hurt to try!

summergreen
October 16th, 2013, 09:06 AM
My question is this: How do you perform the nail rubbing? Nail upon nail, one at a time? Or all of them together, in which you have a bit of a problem with the thumb?

Kind of messing around with it here and I've found I can't do them all together due to the arthritis in my hands. One on one I can do, but this introduces a bunch of other issues - five minutes per pair for instance?

I spend a great amount of time every evening massaging my scalp and moving the sebum down the hair shafts, which is making an amazing difference in my hair quality. I see nothing wrong with a few minutes additional with nail rubbing - if you think it's silly, don't do it!

We just don't know everything there is to know in the natural ways of this earth. So we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss something because it sounds different from what we know.

That being said, still don't know how to do this!

You don't do the thumbs :)

The man who has spread the word about nail rubbing in more recent years and called it Balayam recommends individual nail rubbing so that you can do it in public without it being noticed (apparently!) and I think he has a Youtube video demonstrating this - if you google 'Balayam' you'll find his website and there's a link. Hope that helps :)

It would be quite time consuming to do 5 minutes per pair wouldn't it :( but if you enjoy doing it..it's also an excuse to sit down and relax :) ...and surely it must burn one or two calories as well! ;)

sarahthegemini
October 16th, 2013, 09:15 AM
I just don't understand how this would work, a scalp massage would be way more effective.

WilfredAllen
October 16th, 2013, 10:16 AM
I'll try it! I need a new nervous physical habit lol

rose313
October 16th, 2013, 11:55 AM
What if you wear nail polish, or fake nails? Would it still work, that is, if it works with plain nails?

hellucy
October 16th, 2013, 12:49 PM
I am really surprised by how many people seem to have never heard of reflexology.
Reflexology is a holistic therapy that has been used for hundreds of years it's based on the principle that every part of the body is connected to other parts by nerves and by stimulating one part you can affect/heal another.
I for one am a believer in reflexology's ability to heal as I suffered for years with blocked sinuses and poor circulation, a few sessions of reflexology and my sinuses were clear and I no longer got numb, white fingers and toes. I believe that yes massaging your nails could cause hair growth that is possibly better than from just scalp massage.

duchess67
October 16th, 2013, 12:52 PM
I have read about this somewhere before, never tried doing it except for once while I read that article. I should try and remember to do this everyday as I have very fine thin hair.

PrairieRose
October 16th, 2013, 01:16 PM
Peggy E I have read that rubbing individual nails together, as long as they are matching, is just as good as doing all the fingers. Doing each finger is not neccesary and as said before, thumbs are not done at all. As for how long I am still a little confused myself.

PrairieRose
October 16th, 2013, 01:19 PM
What if you wear nail polish, or fake nails? Would it still work, that is, if it works with plain nails?
I wonder if fake nails would be to thick to have an effect on the nerves below the nail bed.

summergreen
October 16th, 2013, 01:43 PM
I wonder if fake nails would be to thick to have an effect on the nerves below the nail bed.

I think they might be - on the Balayam website it says the thumbnails are too thick for it to be effective on them. I wouldn't think nail polish would stop it working, but I'm pretty sure it would wreck the nail polish quite quickly!

MyKing'sQueen
October 16th, 2013, 01:52 PM
I am really surprised by how many people seem to have never heard of reflexology.
Reflexology is a holistic therapy that has been used for hundreds of years it's based on the principle that every part of the body is connected to other parts by nerves and by stimulating one part you can affect/heal another.
I for one am a believer in reflexology's ability to heal as I suffered for years with blocked sinuses and poor circulation, a few sessions of reflexology and my sinuses were clear and I no longer got numb, white fingers and toes. I believe that yes massaging your nails could cause hair growth that is possibly better than from just scalp massage.
Did you do the massage yourself? If so, could I get a tutorial on how it's done so I could try it? I have bad sinuses and bad circulation too, very interested in this.

jeanniet
October 16th, 2013, 04:20 PM
I understand that most people have better things to do, that's why I didn't post that question on facebook or some other general social media. This site is hair specific with a bonus of other type boards, so I was expecting that people who have better things to do not to take time out of their day and respond saying things like I have better things to do.

If you ask for opinions, as you did in the prior thread, then people are going to say what they think. There's all kinds of hair growth methods posted on here all the time, and all kinds of opinions given. I'm not sure why it's a big deal that some people think nail rubbing is kind of silly.

Emichiee
October 16th, 2013, 07:19 PM
It is supposed to help by improving blood circulation. So if blood flow is a problem I can see how it would help.
I do think that it depends on the underlying cause for hair loss though. If your hormones or thyroid are out of whack, you can increase blood flow all you want, it won't fix the whole issue ;).

Nonetheless I think that it is a good method to improve hair health if practiced long term, just if needed, other things should be done to improve ones overall health as well.

PrairieRose
October 16th, 2013, 07:31 PM
It is supposed to help by improving blood circulation. So if blood flow is a problem I can see how it would help.
I do think that it depends on the underlying cause for hair loss though. If your hormones or thyroid are out of whack, you can increase blood flow all you want, it won't fix the whole issue ;)
Very good point!

Leeloo
October 16th, 2013, 08:09 PM
I am really surprised by how many people seem to have never heard of reflexology.
Reflexology is a holistic therapy that has been used for hundreds of years it's based on the principle that every part of the body is connected to other parts by nerves and by stimulating one part you can affect/heal another

I'm also very surprised how many people never heard of reflexology, acupuncture, acupressure or alternative medicine in general. But that's what we're here for, to learn. Maybe it's time for a new thread. I'm not an expert in any way, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will start one up.

Panth
October 17th, 2013, 01:00 AM
I am really surprised by how many people seem to have never heard of reflexology.
Reflexology is a holistic therapy that has been used for hundreds of years it's based on the principle that every part of the body is connected to other parts by nerves and by stimulating one part you can affect/heal another.
I for one am a believer in reflexology's ability to heal as I suffered for years with blocked sinuses and poor circulation, a few sessions of reflexology and my sinuses were clear and I no longer got numb, white fingers and toes. I believe that yes massaging your nails could cause hair growth that is possibly better than from just scalp massage.


I'm also very surprised how many people never heard of reflexology, acupuncture, acupressure or alternative medicine in general. But that's what we're here for, to learn. Maybe it's time for a new thread. I'm not an expert in any way, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will start one up.

There's a difference between having never heard of it and having heard of it and thinking it is rubbish...

hellucy
October 17th, 2013, 01:20 AM
There's a difference between having never heard of it and having heard of it and thinking it is rubbish...

That is true.. but how can you dismiss something as rubbish if you haven't tried it & given it a chance to work?

hellucy
October 17th, 2013, 01:28 AM
Did you do the massage yourself? If so, could I get a tutorial on how it's done so I could try it? I have bad sinuses and bad circulation too, very interested in this.

When I first had it done it was by a trained reflexologist I have since borrowed various books from the library which teach you the techniques and contain the 'maps' for both foot and hand reflexology. The internet also has lots of information on how to massage and where. Its not always easy to massage your own feet or hands but it is worth the effort.
The sinuses are the underside of the 4 smaller toes (both feet) and the top section of the four fingers (both hands).
A quick google image search for reflexology map should help - some of the maps do look very detailed but they are not as complicated as they seem.

MyKing'sQueen
October 17th, 2013, 03:12 AM
When I first had it done it was by a trained reflexologist I have since borrowed various books from the library which teach you the techniques and contain the 'maps' for both foot and hand reflexology. The internet also has lots of information on how to massage and where. Its not always easy to massage your own feet or hands but it is worth the effort.
The sinuses are the underside of the 4 smaller toes (both feet) and the top section of the four fingers (both hands).
A quick google image search for reflexology map should help - some of the maps do look very detailed but they are not as complicated as they seem.

Thank you! Off to do some searching))

furnival
October 17th, 2013, 04:10 AM
That is true.. but how can you dismiss something as rubbish if you haven't tried it & given it a chance to work?
If something has been proved to have no medical benefit other than a placebo effect (and in the case of reflexology, the relaxing benefits of a foot massage) it can safely be dismissed as rubbish.

In the US the National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF) recommends that:
"NCAHF advises practitioners and consumers of reflexology to be skeptical of therapeutic claims beyond the ability of foot massage for relaxation. Health professionals should be cautious about recommending practitioners who make, or encourage patients to believe in, unproved claims that reflexology is a valid method for assessing health status or for the treatment of diseases."

Yes, there's no harm in rubbing your fingernails together. But why bother doing something that has never been proved to work when there are 100% effective ways to gain the desired effect of increasing blood flow to the scalp?

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 05:02 AM
NCHAF - a money driven government agency with pharmaceutical companies best interest in mind. If you want to do them a favor always listen to your GP, take all the drugs prescribed, don't hope for bettering, the only thing you can do is "control" the illness with drugs or get costly procedures done. :lol:

When judging what is most effective, I think we also need to look at the experiences of actual people. Just like we do here on LHC. Just generally speaking for all alternative health practices. There is a reason they are out there, it is not a bunch of morons getting healed by a placebo effect. If a placebo effect could heal so many chronic illnesses, we shouldn't have a problem treating countless diseases ;-)

donnalouise
October 17th, 2013, 05:30 AM
I'm very scientifically minded and normally take the side of medicine and what can be easily measured and seen, but...

Does it matter if it's a placebo? Some placebos work purely because we believe they will work. If you have a pain in your arm and you take a sugar pill which you believe cures it, and it does indeed cure the pain, then great. Placebo or not, does it matter? You got the end result? And even better, you removed that pain in your arm without taking any chemicals into your body, is that not a good thing no matter how it worked? Maybe rubbing your nails together is a load of nonsense, but if it makes you believe your hair grows faster and makes you happy, then surely that's a good thing? Or, maybe nail rubbing REALLY can make your hair grow faster by a form of self-hypnosis due to belief in the placebo?

I strongly believe in the power our mind holds over our bodies and the ability we have within us to control our own bodies. Our brain is the control centre for the body yet people have a hard time thinking that using our minds we can control our body? If we can slow down our breathing, or control the speed our heart beats, with our mind and by conscious thought, how is it not possible for us to also control other aspects of our body using our mind alone? Granted, some things are harder than others, but i hope people get my point here, which is...

IF IT WORKS, DO IT. IF IT IS A LOAD OF NONSENSE BUT YOU STILL BELIEVE IT WORKS AND IT MAKES YOU HAPPY - DO IT. It doesn't matter what it is. I don't get why people who don't believe in this stuff have to hang around and rubbish anyone and everyone who does believe in it and gets benefit from alternative medicine / placebo / power of the mind / reflexology / whatever else. It's like running around telling kids that santa doesn't exist, it's just plain cruel. If it's not harming anything then just leave it be, even if someone's hair really isn't growing as a result, so what... let them be happy and believe, or maybe it really IS working, who knows

renia22
October 17th, 2013, 06:33 AM
There is an old 11 page thread on this in the archives. It sounds like quite a few people tried it for fun:

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57737

furnival
October 17th, 2013, 06:56 AM
NCHAF - a money driven government agency with pharmaceutical companies best interest in mind. If you want to do them a favor always listen to your GP, take all the drugs prescribed, don't hope for bettering, the only thing you can do is "control" the illness with drugs or get costly procedures done. :lol:

When judging what is most effective, I think we also need to look at the experiences of actual people. Just like we do here on LHC. Just generally speaking for all alternative health practices. There is a reason they are out there, it is not a bunch of morons getting healed by a placebo effect. If a placebo effect could heal so many chronic illnesses, we shouldn't have a problem treating countless diseases ;-)
For the record, I'm not on the side of the big pharmaceutical companies. :p
What I have a problem with is alternative practitioners misleading the public with regards to the efficiacy of their treatments, claiming imperitively that they work when there is no actual proof that they do. It's entirely likely that pharmaceutical companies do the same.

When judging what is most effective, anecdotal evidence (accounts of personal experience) does not equate to proof. In scientific terms, it has no value as evidence. For the most part, alternative practices rely entirely upon anecdotal evidence to back up their claims.

It is, of course, up to the individual whether they choose to use alternative therapies or not. My question is this: with regards to rubbing your nails together to try to increase blood flow to the scalp, why would you choose to do this, which might or might not work, when there are simple ways to attain the desired result that are proven to be effective?

ladyfey
October 17th, 2013, 07:06 AM
I'm with furnival, the plural of anecdote is not data.

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 07:22 AM
What I have a problem with is alternative practitioners misleading the public with regards to the efficiacy of their treatments, claiming imperitively that they work when there is no actual proof that they do. It's entirely likely that pharmaceutical companies do the same.

When judging what is most effective, anecdotal evidence (accounts of personal experience) does not equate to proof. In scientific terms, it has no value as evidence. For the most part, alternative practices rely entirely upon anecdotal evidence to back up their claims.


I see it as government founded organisations misleading the public into thinking it is quackery to boost the image of new school medicine and therefore the money made with it. There are plenty of independent studies supporting alternative medicine. I have read them and used the knowledge to my advantage. Just they won't be widely promoted.
I worked in the science field and for a government funded chemicals company. There are plenty of scientific studies that acknowledge that chemical X is bad, yet they are never made public. It works the same with studies regarding natural medicine.

While personal experience should not be the only proof that something works. It is at least strong evidence that confirms what study and research have already suggested. We should listen more to the people suffering from the actual problems, than expensive, often biased, theoretical studies alone.

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 07:23 AM
I'm with furnival, the plural of anecdote is not data.

But no one stated that ;-) there is data.

PrincessIdril
October 17th, 2013, 07:40 AM
IF IT WORKS, DO IT. IF IT IS A LOAD OF NONSENSE BUT YOU STILL BELIEVE IT WORKS AND IT MAKES YOU HAPPY - DO IT. It doesn't matter what it is. I don't get why people who don't believe in this stuff have to hang around and rubbish anyone and everyone who does believe in it and gets benefit from alternative medicine / placebo / power of the mind / reflexology / whatever else. It's like running around telling kids that santa doesn't exist, it's just plain cruel. If it's not harming anything then just leave it be, even if someone's hair really isn't growing as a result, so what... let them be happy and believe, or maybe it really IS working, who knows

(Bolding mine)
Because in my experience many people who do believe in this stuff can be very quick to rubbish conventional medicine as being only in the interest of pharmaceutical companies/doesn't actually do anything etc. (you can see that demonstrated in this thread!) Don't expect other people to not rubbish your beliefs if you rubbish theirs! (general you)

Not interested in joining the debate just offering a possible suggestion to your query.

Personally I think the idea is silly especially given that there are more effective (and time effecient) ways of stimulating the scalp already.

renia22
October 17th, 2013, 07:40 AM
Here is an interesting article on science and alternative medicine:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/21stC/issue-3.4/walker.html

This paragraph is makes a valid point:

"In some cases, a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial works well for herbs because we can put them in the model of a drug," explains physiologist Dr. Fredi Kronenberg, director of the Rosenthal Center. "However, most herbs in traditional cultures are given as part of a whole system of medicine. It's 'take this herb and do this exercise and change your diet'--a multidimensional treatment. In most herbal traditions, you're diagnosed, you're given an herbal remedy, you come back. If your symptoms have changed, you may get different herbs, you may get different doses. That's much more difficult to study. How do you study a model where things are changing as you go along? Do we want to squeeze this all into the Western medical model, or is that going to change the whole way that this medicine differs from drugs, from purified-compound medicine?""

furnival
October 17th, 2013, 07:52 AM
I don't get why people who don't believe in this stuff have to hang around and rubbish anyone and everyone who does believe in it and gets benefit from alternative medicine / placebo / power of the mind / reflexology / whatever else. It's like running around telling kids that santa doesn't exist, it's just plain cruel.
Because this is a discussion forum, and discussions would be boring and unproductive if they didn't involve opposing viewpoints. :p Nobody on this thread has 'rubbished' anyone.

I don't believe it's cruel to express a difference of opinion, or point out facts that might not otherwise have been considered. If we're here to learn about something, surely the more we learn about it the better?

As I've stated several times already, of course there's no harm in rubbing your fingernails together, and anyone who wants to has every right to do it. What I am curious about are the reasons anyone would choose to do it when there are other techniques that have been proven beyond doubt to produce the desired results. :confused:


I see it as government founded organisations misleading the public into thinking it is quackery to boost the image of new school medicine and therefore the money made with it. There are plenty of independent studies supporting alternative medicine. I have read them and used the knowledge to my advantage. Just they won't be widely promoted.
I worked in the science field and for a government funded chemicals company. There are plenty of scientific studies that acknowledge that chemical X is bad, yet they are never made public. It works the same with studies regarding natural medicine.

While personal experience should not be the only proof that something works. It is at least strong evidence that confirms what study and research have already suggested. We should listen more to the people suffering from the actual problems, than expensive, often biased, theoretical studies alone.
Let's not forget, there is a massive amount of money to be made from alternative medicine also, and no practitioners, whether mainstream or alternative, are immune to the corrupting effects of massive amounts of money. ;) With this in mind, wouldn't studies proving the effectiveness of alternative medicine surely be promoted to high heaven by those who stand to benefit from them?

The thing with the personal evidence you mention is that it by its very nature it cant 'confirm' what studies have proved, it isn't 'strong evidence' or 'proof'. It is anecdotal and scientifically worthless. Listening to personal accounts outside the structure of controlled studies does not further our knowledge of a subject.


there is data.
I'd be interested to read some, particularly with regards to reflexology so we don't veer too far off-topic :p if you'd provide some links.

Still, nobody has answered my question! :(

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 08:36 AM
Let's not forget, there is a massive amount of money to be made from alternative medicine also, and no practitioners, whether mainstream or alternative, are immune to the corrupting effects of massive amounts of money. ;) With this in mind, wouldn't studies proving the effectiveness of alternative medicine surely be promoted to high heaven by those who stand to benefit from them?

Sadly no, because influential sources tied to the government won't promote these kind of studies. So the end up being posted to health blogs, where of course, they don't get as many views. Natural medicine lacks money and power (still). And of course not everything labeled natural is gold, one has to be wary either way.


The thing with the personal evidence you mention is that it by its very nature it cant 'confirm' what studies have proved, it isn't 'strong evidence' or 'proof'. It is anecdotal and scientifically worthless. Listening to personal accounts outside the structure of controlled studies does not further our knowledge of a subject.
Well, this is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I don't see personal experiences as worthless at all. Afterall that is how many studies are conducted, by using the experience of individuals with certain treatments, drugs supplements. So while one persons experience alone is not proof, seeing that it works for many people is regarded as scientific evidence and often include in studies "product X showed effectiveness in 60% of individuals tested" etc. :)



I'd be interested to read some, particularly with regards to reflexology so we don't veer too far off-topic :p if you'd provide some links.

Still, nobody has answered my question! :(

What question was this?

Like I mentioned before, I have no experience in reflexology, (and I am not sold on it, just not dismissing it due to me not having researched it) all I said is that I don't automatically believe it is bull because of the NCHAF claiming it has no value.
If you'd like reading about other studies I'd happily send you a link via PM so we don't go to far OT. :)

WilfredAllen
October 17th, 2013, 09:59 AM
well my nails are definitely growing faster...

Seeshami
October 17th, 2013, 10:02 AM
I do this all the time so maybe that's why my hair is so thick and grows so quickly. But honestly I just do it when I am annoyed because I use to rip my nails off and it's a less detrimental way to focus the energy.

furnival
October 17th, 2013, 10:09 AM
Sadly no, because influential sources tied to the government won't promote these kind of studies. So the end up being posted to health blogs, where of course, they don't get as many views. Natural medicine lacks money and power (still). And of course not everything labeled natural is gold, one has to be wary either way.

Well, this is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I don't see personal experiences as worthless at all. Afterall that is how many studies are conducted, by using the experience of individuals with certain treatments, drugs supplements. So while one persons experience alone is not proof, seeing that it works for many people is regarded as scientific evidence and often include in studies "product X showed effectiveness in 60% of individuals tested" etc. :)

What question was this?

Like I mentioned before, I have no experience in reflexology, (and I am not sold on it, just not dismissing it due to me not having researched it) all I said is that I don't automatically believe it is bull because of the NCHAF claiming it has no value.
If you'd like reading about other studies I'd happily send you a link via PM so we don't go to far OT. :)
Hmmm... Even if something wasn't actively promoted by government sources, surely the scientific, alternative and mainstream medical communities would be promoting any treatment that had been proved beyond doubt to be effective, not just people writing health blogs? I would have assumed that actual, irrefutable proof of efficacy is the holy grail to people whose methods have been viewed as dubious...

I'd hesitate to agree that the problems with the reliability of anecdotal evidence are simply matters of opinion. :p
There is a world of difference between studying individuals' experiences in a controlled manner, which is how scientific studies are performed, as you said, and citing personal testimonies as definitive evidence of the efficacy of a product or technique, which is how a lot of alternative therapists promote themselves.

My question... Ach, I've asked it in every post I've made on this thread: with regards to rubbing your nails together to try to increase blood flow to the scalp, why would you choose to do this, which might or might not work, when there are simple ways to attain the desired result that are proven to be effective?

I would be interested to read scientific studies on alternative medicine, particularly the kinds of treatments that have no logical or scientific basis, if you've the time! I don't think we'd be OT as long as it related to reflexology, which is the topic after all, and is proving to be an interesting discussion :)

WilfredAllen
October 17th, 2013, 10:13 AM
My question... Ach, I've asked it in every post I've made on this thread: with regards to rubbing your nails together to try to increase blood flow to the scalp, why would you choose to do this, which might or might not work, when there are simple ways to attain the desired result that are proven to be effective?



Because I only find new things when I try new things. That's how I've found alot of things that work in my life

renia22
October 17th, 2013, 10:48 AM
I'd be interested to read some, particularly with regards to reflexology so we don't veer too far off-topic :p if you'd provide some links.

Still, nobody has answered my question! :(

I didn't see your question either, but here is some info on reflexology with links:

http://www.takingcharge.csh.umn.edu/explore-healing-practices/reflexology/what-does-research-say-about-refloxology

The research shows that it helps alleviate pain, promote sleep and relaxation, reduce stress, etc., so if you are using it as part of a holistic approach, then it can be something that would be beneficial. But if you are generally in poor health, don't eat a wide variety of nutrient dense foods, don't exercise, are not within a healthy weight range (over or underweight, or constantly yoyo-ing) have some underlying hormonal imbalances or other health issues, etc, then try to plug reflexology in there, then I am not sure how beneficial it will be. But I think the same can be true for something that is "scientifically proven" like minoxidil, which also comes with whole smorgasbord of potential side effects (some of which are quite scary). That is actually a large part of why people turn to alternative remedies in the first place (they want something that will help with fewer side effects). Which isn't to say that "natural is always better and safer", that's a logical fallacy that comes into play that can have detrimental consequences, just like side effects of pharmaceuticals can. I think it's so important to be an informed consumer, and to do your own homework and research on whatever approach you decide to take. There are so many logical fallacies at play in day to day life, and I think it's in everyones best interest to be aware of what logical fallacies are, especially when you are feeling desperate or vulnerable and looking for a solution to something like hair loss or some other health scare. If it's free and it's not harming anyone (like the nail rubbing), I say, so what if other people think it's "magical thinking". No harm in trying it.

furnival
October 17th, 2013, 12:51 PM
Thank you for the link renia22. I'll have a read through the studies it mentions after I've made dinner. :)
I agree completely that it's really important to do your research, and as I've stated before I see no harm at all in rubbing your fingernails together, I'm just curious as to why people would choose to do this instead of proven methods. I'm repeating myself now... :p

renia22
October 17th, 2013, 01:38 PM
I agree completely that it's really important to do your research, and as I've stated before I see no harm at all in rubbing your fingernails together, I'm just curious as to why people would choose to do this instead of proven methods. I'm repeating myself now... :p

Maybe some of it has to do with personality and the different things people are drawn to? Are you familiar with Myers-Briggs Personality theory at all?

http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html

If I had to guess, I would bet you would have a "T" and a "J" in yours :)

WilfredAllen
October 17th, 2013, 01:46 PM
Maybe some of it has to do with personality and the different things people are drawn to? Are you familiar with Myers-Briggs Personality theory at all?

http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html

If I had to guess, I would bet you would have a "T" and a "J" in yours :)



(Sorry, I am way off topic)

I recall that preferring to make choices from past experience and proven facts is a S trait, and preferring to make choices based on theories and possibilies is an N trait. The T trait may come in as much as being driven to find the correct answer, whereas F's prefer to harmonize

swearnsue
October 17th, 2013, 02:33 PM
I've been nail rubbing while reading this thread and I can feel my scalp tingle a little bit. It feels good, it's free, no calories, and doesn't cause STDs.

Cons though, it would be tough on nail polish.

renia22
October 17th, 2013, 02:46 PM
I recall that preferring to make choices from past experience and proven facts is a S trait, and preferring to make choices based on theories and possibilies is an N trait. The T trait may come in as much as being driven to find the correct answer, whereas F's prefer to harmonize

Well more accurately, you're supposed to look at the order of the cognitive functions of your personality type to make an accurate assessment. We all have the ability to use the various functions, it's just a matter of what your natural "preferences" are (by "preferences", they mean a cognitive process that happens naturally, not something you are consciously choosing) according to MBTI, but this is why I was thinking "T" and "j"


"Favorite world: Do you prefer to focus on the outer world or on your own inner world? This is called Extraversion (E) or Introversion (I).

Information: Do you prefer to focus on the basic information you take in or do you prefer to interpret and add meaning? This is called Sensing (S) or Intuition (N).

Decisions: When making decisions, do you prefer to first look at logic and consistency or first look at the people and special circumstances? This is called Thinking (T) or Feeling (F).

Structure: In dealing with the outside world, do you prefer to get things decided or do you prefer to stay open to new information and options? This is called Judging (J) or Perceiving (P)."

"T" tend to be logical & consistent rather than focused on feelings, "j" like closure rather leaving things open. So if you think something was proven through the scientific method (logic & consistent), and why explore non scientific possibilities (closure), this would be T & J, which is why I guessed that for furnival (that was the reasoning she was using)

"S" and "N" is not about facts or theorizing, or how you make choices, but how you take in and interpret information. It's this ( from the Myers Briggs website):

The second pair of psychological preferences is Sensing and Intuition. Do you pay more attention to information that comes in through your five senses (Sensing), or do you pay more attention to the patterns and possibilities that you see in the information you receive (Intuition)?

furnival
October 17th, 2013, 03:12 PM
Maybe some of it has to do with personality and the different things people are drawn to? Are you familiar with Myers-Briggs Personality theory at all?
http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html
If I had to guess, I would bet you would have a "T" and a "J" in yours :)
Maybe so!
OT: :p I just did the test and it reckoned I was an ISFP, which when I read through all the types was actually the closest to describing me, though not entirely accurate. (Though my sceptical mind is still quite impressed. :rolleyes: ) I don't know about the T and the J but if you were to judge my personality solely by my contributions to this thread you'd probably get a rather skewed impression of me... ;)

renia22
October 17th, 2013, 03:34 PM
Maybe so!
OT: :p I just did the test and it reckoned I was an ISFP, which when I read through all the types was actually the closest to describing me, though not entirely accurate. (Though my sceptical mind is still quite impressed. :rolleyes: ) I don't know about the T and the J but if you were to judge my personality solely by my contributions to this thread you'd probably get a rather skewed impression of me... ;)

Awwww... ISFP is " the artist" (like Michael Jackson).

Haha, that's why they say be cautious about guessing "types" in real life, you really do need to see the big picture and patterns of behavior in various aspects of the person's life. But even on the MBTI message boards where people are experts on this stuff, they argue endlessly about types & cognitive functions & their meanings, so I guess you can never really be sure. Still fun to think about this stuff, though & guess about who you are dealing. I do the same thing with astrology. :)

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 06:23 PM
I think I was INFP when I did the test years ago.


Hmmm... Even if something wasn't actively promoted by government sources, surely the scientific, alternative and mainstream medical communities would be promoting any treatment that had been proved beyond doubt to be effective, not just people writing health blogs?
True, but that is what I call "health blogs" or "health sites". I meant no pages ending in gov. and not many popular news stations will promote it. Sorry if it was easily misunderstood, my English isn't all that great.


I would have assumed that actual, irrefutable proof of efficacy is the holy grail to people whose methods have been viewed as dubious...

Whether it is considered dubious depends hugely on what topic we are talking about. There are millions of natural health practices and alternative ways of living and diet. Some aren't dubious at all and widely recognized as efficient.



I'd hesitate to agree that the problems with the reliability of anecdotal evidence are simply matters of opinion. :p
There is a world of difference between studying individuals' experiences in a controlled manner, which is how scientific studies are performed, as you said, and citing personal testimonies as definitive evidence of the efficacy of a product or technique, which is how a lot of alternative therapists promote themselves.
This is also how we help each other here on LHC, with experiences ;-). I don't think there are very many specific studies backing up LHC health care. Some is just recommended because Users feel it works, and other things are extracted from basic scientific knowledge and used with long hair care in mind.

Sorry, I will have to stick with my statement, - personal accounts are a part of science. Not everything, but important. You can test a product all you want, if you can't test on humans and see actual results it is not thoroughly tested (think of hair products for example!).

Surely not every LHCer will test a product accurately, and some may think they are getting a certain result but it is just a mistake. But if a large percentage of LHCers is getting a great result, then we are a little closer to science. Scientists are not superhumans, and sometimes even they have to listen to simple experiences and then compare, use common sense and compare again. Not everything can be tested in a lab. :)


My question... Ach, I've asked it in every post I've made on this thread: with regards to rubbing your nails together to try to increase blood flow to the scalp, why would you choose to do this, which might or might not work, when there are simple ways to attain the desired result that are proven to be effective?
I thought it was a theoretical question, sorry :lol: Are there really simpler, more effective ways to achieve the same results? I don't know enough about the topic to know this for sure.


I would be interested to read scientific studies on alternative medicine, particularly the kinds of treatments that have no logical or scientific basis, if you've the time! I don't think we'd be OT as long as it related to reflexology, which is the topic after all, and is proving to be an interesting discussion :)
Don't get me wrong, but I am not an expert on practices that have no logical or scientific basis as in healing by eyeballing or windblowing :p...I simply stated that "natural medicine/ alternative medicine" is not automatically bogus. It refers to too many very different, individual practices. Some have been proven to be more effective, and there are more studies backing this up, and others are rather folk medicine.

As for the studies, I will copy and paste a few links regarding studies and natural health from another device right after this message.

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 06:33 PM
Here is a whole database dedicated to provide you with the best evidence:

http://naturaldatabase.therapeuticresearch.com/Content.aspx?page=edprinciples&xsl=generic&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1


Editorial Principles and Process

Executive Summary

We do...

Use an evidence-based approach
Systematically review the literature
Critically appraise the literature
Utilize the most relevant and valid data
Give more weight to higher quality data and less weight to lesser quality data
Peer review
Focus on practical, clinically relevant data
Monitor and review new literature on a daily basis
Update the Database daily
Invite users to communicate with our editors about the content of the Database
We do NOT...

Use traditional beliefs or folklore as "evidence"
Rely on product manufacturer promotional material for our scientific data
Base ratings on unpublished manufacturer-sponsored studies
Base our data on non-scientific material from Internet sites
Have a bias for or against natural products
Take any advertising or sponsorship...ever

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 06:41 PM
Here is a health diet site writing about a study regarding IBS and Gluten:

http://robbwolf.com/2013/05/17/science-bite-gluten-free-diet-irritable-bowel-disease/

PubMed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23357715/

Quote: The gluten containing diet showed greater intestinal permeability. Several interesting things: This effect was greater, but no limited to the HLA-D2/8 Positive patients. The effects appear to be via an ENTIRELY different mechanism than that which underlies celiac disease. We to not see CD4T-cell activity, nor do we see increased interferon-gamma in this group studied, in stark contrast to classic celiac disease. We do see elements of both the innate and adaptive immune system being activated, but in novel ways relative to CD.

_____

How gut bacteria may be connected to disease and obesity:
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=51021876189adc8125a6a9578&id=5606bf8304

_____

Daily Mail UK about a recent study on the benfits of probiotics (which are weirdly debated, even though they work wonders):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2031716/Probiotic-yoghurt-help-treat-depression-scientists-say.html

_____

More regarding probiotics:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/07/18/how-probiotics-may-save-your-life/

Study and source reference at the bottom.

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 07:02 PM
Now about a supplement - Diindolylmethane, it is derived from cruciferous vegetables.





A compound found in broccoli, called Diindolylmethane (DIM), formed during the digestion of this vegetable, has been found to potentiate molecular pathways that slow down the aging process and promote life extension. The paper uncovering this phenomenon was recently published in the March edition of Aging Cell.

As the media and science writers covering recent developments in the field of nutrition slowly begin to notice and digest the findings of this important paper published by German scientists at the Duisburg-Essen University in Germany, a brief scientific review of this important compound from broccoli can be helpful in shedding light on the remarkable health benefits of this vegetable and why the First Family is correct in trying to raise awareness about the importance of this vegetable within the American diet.
When science writers in the media write about the health benefits of broccoli, they often focus solely on Sulforaphane, which was discovered to promote cellular detoxification at Johns Hopkins. The health promoting properties of other nutrients found in broccoli are often overlooked.
An overview of how Diindolylmethane is formed during the digestive process and its molecular biology as well as scientific references dating back to 1975 are available at the Diindolylmethane (DIM) Information Resource Center at UC Berkeley (http://www.diindolylmethane.org/)

Diindolylmethane from broccoli has numerous very favorable biologic activities which are the basis for why the National Cancer Institute has launched numerous clinical trials to study the potential of this compound as a naturally occurring therapeutic candidate for multiple forms of cancer.
Among these favorable biologic activities are:
1) Anti-inflammatory properties through the down regulation of NFK-B, a well-known inflammatory drug target with therapeutic properties for both cancer and cardiovascular disease.
2) Immune activation through the induction of Interferon-Gamma Receptors and Interferon-Gamma itself which are well understood in the scientific community for their antiviral, antibacterial and anticancer properties.
3) Synergy with Interferon-Gamma in the induction of the MHC-I complex which helps to flag cancer and infectious disease antigens to the immune system for destruction.
4) The promotion of apoptosis through inhibition of PI3K / Akt. Apoptosis is programmed cell death. Normal cells have this process as a part of their life cycle but cancer cells lose this ability in the process of becoming cancerous. Hence it is an important mechanism by which cancer cells can be prompted to self-destruct.
5) Promotion of P38 and P21 which promote cytostasis of cancerous cells.
When all of the above are taken into account some of the epidemiological studies regarding Brassica vegetable consumption and a lower risk of cancer come to light.
In 2001, a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association discussed how women who consume just one serving of Brassica vegetables per week exhibit a 40% reduction in the risk of breast cancer development relative to those who consume very little of this vegetable group in their diet. In 2007, scientists at the National Cancer Institute published their finding that men who consume just one serving of Cruciferous (Brassica) vegetables per week reduce their risk of developing aggressive prostate cancer by up to 52%. Interestingly enough, in this study, no other vegetable group appeared to provide a statistically significant risk reduction for prostate cancer.
In a seminal paper published in 2006, Diindolylmethane was shown to synergize with Taxol (best-selling cancer drug worldwide that also originated from plants). In this paper the authors demonstrate how DIM significantly enhances the efficacy of this important and widely used cancer drug.
In another important paper that came out in January of 2013, Scientists at the Karamos Cancer Institute published that Diindolylmethane (DIM) enhances the effectiveness of Herceptin--leading therapeutic for breast cancer currently marketed by biotech giant Genentech.
And now from this recent study in Germany, we can add to Diindolylmethane’s multitude of favorable biological properties, the slowing down of the aging process and life extension.
Indeed Brassica vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussels sprouts) are among the most important from a preventive nutrition point of view in the human diet given the number of favorable and health-promoting activities of Diindolylmethane (DIM).

Aging Cell. 2013 Mar 23. Chemical genetic screen in fission yeast reveals roles for vacuolar acidification, mitochondrial fission, and cellular GMP levels in lifespan extension. Stephan J, Franke J, Ehrenhofer-Murray AE. Zentrum für Medizinische Biotechnologie, Universität Duisburg-Essen, Essen, Germany.
Brassica Vegetables and Breast Cancer Risk. Terry P, Wolk A, Persson I, Magnusson C, JAMA 2001 285 (23): 2975-2976
Prospective Study of Fruit and Vegetable Intake and Risk of Prostate Cancer. Journal of the National Cancer Institute. 2007 Jul 24; Krish VA, Peters U, Mayne ST, Subar AF, Chatterjee N, Johnson CC, Hayes RB
3,3'-diindolylmethane Enhances the Effectiveness of Herceptin against HER-2/Neu-Expressing Breast Cancer Cells. PLoS One. 2013;8(1):e54657. Epub 2013 Jan 22. Ahmad A, Ali S, Ahmed A, Ali AS, Raz A, Sakr WA, Rahman KW. Department of Pathology, Karmanos Cancer Institute, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, Michigan, United States of America.
3,3′-Diindolylmethane and Paclitaxel Act Synergistically to Promote Apoptosis in HER2/Neu Human Breast Cancer Cells. Journal of Surgical Research, 2006 May 15;132(2):208-13. K. McGuire, N. Ngoubilly, M. Neavyn, S. Lanza-Jacoby Department of Surgery, Jefferson Medical College, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 07:06 PM
More about DIM


US Department of Agriculture scientists elucidate how Diindolylmethane's anti-inflammatory properties help to promote prostate health. Indole-3-Carbinol and 3',3'-Diindolylmethane Modulate Androgen's Effect on C-C Chemokine Ligand 2 and Monocyte Attraction to Prostate Cancer Cells. Cancer Prev Res (Phila). 2013 Jun;6(6):519-29. doi: 10.1158/1940-6207.CAPR-12-0419. Kim EK, Kim YS, Milner JA, Wang TT. U.S. Department of Agriculture, Building 307C, Room 132, BARC-EAST, 10300 Baltimore Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705

Scientists in Germany discover that Diindolylmethane (DIM) potentiates molecular pathways that slow down the aging process and promote life extension. Chemical genetic screen in fission yeast reveals roles for vacuolar acidification, mitochondrial fission, and cellular GMP levels in lifespan extension. Aging Cell. 2013 Mar 23. doi: 10.1111/acel.12077. Stephan J, Franke J, Ehrenhofer-Murray AE. Zentrum für Medizinische Biotechnologie, Universität Duisburg-Essen, Essen, Germany.

Scientists at the Karamos Cancer Institute discover that naturally occurring Diindolylmethane (DIM) enhances the effectiveness of Herceptin--leading therapeutic for breast cancer. 3,3'-diindolylmethane Enhances the Effectiveness of Herceptin against HER-2/Neu-Expressing Breast Cancer Cells. PLoS One. 2013;8(1):e54657. Epub 2013 Jan 22. Ahmad A, Ali S, Ahmed A, Ali AS, Raz A, Sakr WA, Rahman KW. Department of Pathology, Karmanos Cancer Institute, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, Michigan, United States of America.

Scientists demonstrate that Diindolylmethane (DIM) promotes cervical health. Anti-proliferative and pro-apoptotic effects of 3,3'-diindolylmethane in human cervical cancer cells. Oncol Rep. 2012 Sep;28(3):1063-8. doi: 10.3892/or.2012.1877. Zhu J, Li Y, Guan C, Chen Z. Department of Gynecology, Renmin Hospital of Wuhan University, Wuchang, Wuhan 430060, PR China.
Biomedical investigators elucidate that Diindolylmethane (DIM) inhibits the development of cancer stem cells, paving the way for the human clinical trials of DIM as a cancer preventive natural compound. Diindolylmethane (DIM) selectively inhibits cancer stem cells. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2012 Jul 20;424(1):45-51. Semov A, Iourtchenco L, Lin Fang L, Shengmin L, Xu Y, Su X, Muyjnek E, Kiselev V, Alakhov V. Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Phase I human clinical studies of Diindolylmethane (DIM) as a therapeutic candidate for castrate-resistant non-metastatic prostate cancer patients demonstrated efficacy. DIM has now progressed to Phase II human clinical studies. The recommended dosage for the Phase II study is approximately 2x the DIM concentration in ActivaMune. (In order for a therapeutic candidate to receive recognition as a treatment for a particular condition by the US FDA, it must pass four progressive phases of human clinical trials. DIM is currently regarded as a dietary supplement and not a therapeutic for any condition.) A phase I dose-escalation study of oral DIM (3,3'-Diindolylmethane) in castrate-resistant, non-metastatic prostate cancer. Am J Transl Res. 2010 Jul 23;2(4):402-11. Heath EI, Heilbrun LK, Li J, Vaishampayan U, Harper F, Pemberton P, Sarkar FH. Karmanos Cancer Institute, Wayne State University Detroit, MI, USA.

In a landmark preclinical study at UC Berkeley, Diindolylmethane (DIM) is shown to promote cellular prostate health. UC Berkeley Publication. 3,3'-Diindolylmethane induces a G(1) arrest in human prostate cancer cells irrespective of androgen receptor and p53 status. Biochemical Pharmacology. 2009 Sep 1;78(5):469-76. Epub 2009 May 9. Vivar OI, Lin CL, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF. Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-3104, USA.

Scientists at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute publish their findings regarding Diindolylmethane (DIM) and its potential as a dietary supplement. Cancer Treatment Review. 2009 Aug 4. Harnessing the fruits of nature for the development of multi-targeted cancer therapeutics. Sarkar FH, Li Y. Department of Pathology, Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, MI, USA.

In a breakthrough preclinical study, biomedical investigators at the Genomics Institute of Novartis Research Foundation elucidate a novel biological property of Diindolylmethane (DIM) and its relevance to cardiovascular health. Lipid G protein-coupled receptor ligand identification using beta-arrestin PathHunter assay. Journal of Biological Chemistry 2009 May 1;284(18):12328-38. Epub 2009 Mar 13. Yin H, Chu A, Li W, Wang B, Shelton F, Otero F, Nguyen DG, Caldwell JS, Chen YA. Genomics Institute of the Novartis Research Foundation, San Diego,

Emichiee
October 17th, 2013, 07:18 PM
Studies regarding diet, alternative diets:

http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research-about-the-paleo-diet/


Criticism regarding modern medicine and doctors, interesting read:

http://www.herbalhealer.com/jama.html

(the article is a copy of an article that is not accessible anymore)


J.A.M.A. admits... Conventional Medicine Errors are the 3rd Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. And you pay for this???

In a mind boggling article published by The Journal of the American Medical Association - Vol. 284. No. 4 - July 28, 2000 the research finally admits to mainstream that they are killing 250,000 Americans per year. They estimate the figure to be low and say remember these are only the death figures, not the adverse side effects associated with disability or discomfort. Complete article is on the web site.

12,000 - unnecessary surgery
7,000 - medication errors in hospital
20,000 - other errors in hospitals
80,000 - nosocomial infections in hospitals
106,000 - adverse effects of medications

Many believe the US has the best health care in the world, but look at more JAMA stats!!!
Of 13 countries the US rankings are terrible. (Countries in order of their average ranking - Japan, Sweden, Canada, France, Australia, Spain, Finland, Netherlands, U.K., Denmark, Belgium, US, and Germany.)

US ranking's are as follows:
13th (last) in low-birth weights
13th - neonatal mortality
11th - post neonatal mortality
13th - life lost excluding external causes
11th for life expectancy at 1 year for females
12th for males 10th for life expectancy at 15 years for females
12th for males 10th for life expectancy at 40 for females
9th for males 7th for life expectancy at 65 for females
7th for males 10th for age adjusted mortality.

The poor performance of the United States was confirmed by the World Health Organization. The press would have you believe that it is the American lifestyle.. smoking, drinking, etc., but the statistics show otherwise. The top ranking best health care statistics are from Japan and 41% of the women smoke and 61% of the men. US stats are 24% of women smoke and 28% men. The data for alcohol is similar.


This is not some quack talking, big government agencies admitted to it.

My opinion,- whether it is natural or conventional medicine, you can't say one of the two is simply bad and worthless. Instead do the research and combine the best from both worlds.

(The topics I posted about I have actually researched and tested the supplements.)

I suppose everyone now has enough of interesting things to read.

PrairieRose
October 17th, 2013, 09:00 PM
Thank you for all the interesting information emichiee:)

jeanniet
October 18th, 2013, 12:48 AM
Studies regarding diet, alternative diets:

http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research-about-the-paleo-diet/


Criticism regarding modern medicine and doctors, interesting read:

http://www.herbalhealer.com/jama.html

(the article is a copy of an article that is not accessible anymore)



This is not some quack talking, big government agencies admitted to it.

My opinion,- whether it is natural or conventional medicine, you can't say one of the two is simply bad and worthless. Instead do the research and combine the best from both worlds.

(The topics I posted about I have actually researched and tested the supplements.)

I suppose everyone now has enough of interesting things to read.

I'm not sure why the article quoted says the media attributes the poor US rankings to smoking/drinking, because all the media coverage I've seen (rightly) attributes it primarily to the average American diet and sedentary lifestyle. I don't disagree with what the article says except the last paragraph. The comparison to Japan makes no sense because the health issues are attributed to smoking/drinking, and those are not the primary problems--although it is true that some health problems are worse in areas of the country where smoking rates are higher (the West vs. the South). Areas of the US with the worse dietary and exercise patterns are also those with the highest rates of cardiovascular disease, for example.

Haybop
October 18th, 2013, 01:19 AM
I'd never considered rubbing my nails together... like against each other in order to stimulate my hair growth. I have restarted rubbing my nails just to stimulate their growth (bloodflow increase to nail bed and matrix surely ;D) I usually do this when it starts getting cold because they always get so cold so quickly :S

I would be interested to see if there do end up being any noticeable results from people who are contemplating taking this up :)

Bagginslover
October 18th, 2013, 02:58 AM
My question... Ach, I've asked it in every post I've made on this thread: with regards to rubbing your nails together to try to increase blood flow to the scalp, why would you choose to do this, which might or might not work, when there are simple ways to attain the desired result that are proven to be effective?



I can do it anywhere, unlike scalp massage, treatments etc. I can do it at work, in the car stopped at a traffic light, waiting in a queue in the supermarket, anywhere!! ;)

Incendntally, I've never found it to damage my nail polish, which I wear all the time, I either have super sticky nails, or I'm not doing it right! lol!

PrairieRose
October 18th, 2013, 05:27 AM
One of the problems I have with scalp massage is that I end up having to wash my hair everyday. Right now my hair is short therefore I am unable to put it up. Scalp massages just end up making my hair to oily. Although I do incoorperate them into my routine, just not daily. I like nail rubbing because I can do it daily and I do notice a difference with my nails. It is a little too soon to tell how it is affecting my hair yet but at least it is benifical to me in one way or another! So I am happy so far:)

Emichiee
October 18th, 2013, 05:32 AM
I'm not sure why the article quoted says the media attributes the poor US rankings to smoking/drinking, because all the media coverage I've seen (rightly) attributes it primarily to the average American diet and sedentary lifestyle. I don't disagree with what the article says except the last paragraph. The comparison to Japan makes no sense because the health issues are attributed to smoking/drinking, and those are not the primary problems--although it is true that some health problems are worse in areas of the country where smoking rates are higher (the West vs. the South). Areas of the US with the worse dietary and exercise patterns are also those with the highest rates of cardiovascular disease, for example.

I think that is the herbalist commenting the finds of the Journal of the American Medical Association and being a bit vague. He said lifestyle which would include diet and exercise too, but then only named smoking and drinking...

PrairieRose

Please update us if you notice any more changes :)

furnival
October 18th, 2013, 08:41 AM
:steam Argh, this is the third time I've written this post as it keeps disappearing, and it's so damn fiddly writing on my phone! I'm sure I've missed loads of points too. Oh well, third time lucky... :pray:

Sorry, I will have to stick with my statement, - personal accounts are a part of science. Not everything, but important. You can test a product all you want, if you can't test on humans and see actual results it is not thoroughly tested (think of hair products for example!).
I think you might have misunderstood me- scientific testing does not mean failing to test on humans. It means testing on humans within the structure of a controlled experiment with a control group to compare the results against.

If we take the Monistat thread for example, someone unaware of the unreliability of anecdotal evidence might read through it and take the many positive accounts as actual evidence that rubbing Monistat into your scalp makes your hair grow faster. In reality, though, we have no way of knowing if the subjects' hair is growing faster due to the chemicals in the cream, the rubbing motion of application, the placebo effect, natural hair growth cycles or even if it is really growing faster at all, as we don't know how deftly each person wields the tape measure. :p
In a controlled experiment, one group of participants would apply Monistat (same amount/frequency/method of application) and the other would do the same with a placebo cream. Neither group would know which they were using, in order to mitigate potential placebo effects. Their growth would be measured accurately and the results would give a reliable idea of whether Monistat is effective at enhancing hair growth or not.
From Wikipedia: "Anecdotal evidence is considered dubious support of a claim; it is accepted only in lieu of more solid evidence. This is true regardless of the veracity of individual claims."



I thought it was a theoretical question, sorry :lol: Are there really simpler, more effective ways to achieve the same results? I don't know enough about the topic to know this for sure. See post #14 :)


Don't get me wrong, but I am not an expert on practices that have no logical or scientific basis as in healing by eyeballing or windblowing :p...I simply stated that "natural medicine/ alternative medicine" is not automatically bogus. It refers to too many very different, individual practices. Some have been proven to be more effective, and there are more studies backing this up, and others are rather folk medicine.

As for the studies, I will copy and paste a few links regarding studies and natural health from another device right after this message.
Thank you for the links. I agree completely that natural/alternative medicine is not automatically bogus. I think I may have given the wrong impression here, that I am automatically against anything alternative! What I have a problem with is solely the type of practices that have no logical, rational or scientific basis and rely entirely upon anecdotal evidence to support their claims of effectiveness. It's not a case of mainstream vs alternative: it's a case of hearsay vs proof.

Oh and p.s. Emichiee, your English is impeccable. :)

summergreen
October 18th, 2013, 11:27 AM
Incendntally, I've never found it to damage my nail polish, which I wear all the time, I either have super sticky nails, or I'm not doing it right! lol!

Oh that's good then! :) it's made my unpolished nails feel kind of rougher and dry, so I thought it would be even worse on nail polish - maybe nail polish is tougher than nails! (well, my nails :) )

glitterbug
October 18th, 2013, 11:32 AM
Never heard of that before. Hair grows by genetics not my rubbing nails! Its sounds too ridiculous to even be true

hellucy
October 18th, 2013, 02:45 PM
why would you choose to do this, which might or might not work, when there are simple ways to attain the desired result that are proven to be effective?
I don't like scalp massages much as it makes my hair oily quicker, I can't scalp massage when out and about & the main reason is I get WAY more shedding when I scalp massage, so if I can rub my nails together and get the same effect I'm willing to try.


Because I only find new things when I try new things. That's how I've found alot of things that work in my life
This describes me - I love to try new things & how will I know whether something will work for me or not unless I try it with an open mind.

Emichiee
October 19th, 2013, 05:08 PM
Thank you for the links. I agree completely that natural/alternative medicine is not automatically bogus. I think I may have given the wrong impression here, that I am automatically against anything alternative! What I have a problem with is solely the type of practices that have no logical, rational or scientific basis and rely entirely upon anecdotal evidence to support their claims of effectiveness. It's not a case of mainstream vs alternative: it's a case of hearsay vs proof.

Oh and p.s. Emichiee, your English is impeccable. :)

Thank you. I lived in the US for 5 years, my husband is American, my English needs to be decent ;)

"practices that have no logical, rational or scientific basis and rely entirely upon anecdotal evidence to support their claims of effectiveness"

Not my thing either :)

veganchelly
October 21st, 2013, 07:27 PM
So I've heard of this before and thought that it was just an old wive's tale, but then I stumbled on to these articles:

http://relaxedhairhealth.blogspot.ca/2010/07/can-rubbing-your-nails-really-increase.html

http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/wellness/science-behind-fingernails-rubbing-for-hair-regrowth

Has anybody ever tried nail buffing/rubbing for hair growth? Have you had any success? I'm going to start this (I figure that it can't hurt), and will let you know how it works for me. :)

veganchelly
October 21st, 2013, 07:45 PM
Thanks for moving my post and re-directing me. I did a search for "nail buffing", but didn't find anything. I should have tried "nail rubbing". :)

PrairieRose
October 25th, 2013, 12:39 PM
Update I have been nail rubbing for 4 weeks now. I had measured my hair around the time I started. I measured 15 inches. Now I am measuring 16 inches. But I am not sure exactly how accurate that is. I am going to have to get someone to help me measure. Despite my poor measuring skills, I do remember how much of a particular earring was cover by my hair, so based on this I think my hair definitely grew between a 1/2 inch to a inch.
Sorry for the rambling!

summergreen
October 25th, 2013, 02:31 PM
Update I have been nail rubbing for 4 weeks now. I had measured my hair around the time I started. I measured 15 inches. Now I am measuring 16 inches. But I am not sure exactly how accurate that is. I am going to have to get someone to help me measure. Despite my poor measuring skills, I do remember how much of a particular earring was cover by my hair, so based on this I think my hair definitely grew between a 1/2 inch to a inch.
Sorry for the rambling!

Oooh :) that's encouraging!

PrairieRose
October 27th, 2013, 06:05 PM
I just had someone help me do an accurate measurement. 15 3/4 inches:)

swearnsue
October 27th, 2013, 06:24 PM
Hi PrairieRose! With the nail rubbing your hair grew 3/4 inch in a month? That's great! I've been doing the nail rubbing for several days now and it's too soon to tell about any effect on my hair but my nails are growing fast!