Hair toner question - planning to neutralise the brassiness

[stachelbeere]

Today I decided to finally tone my red hennaed length to a cooler tone and also make it a bit darker.

I'd like to use a semi-permanent colour from a brand such as Manic Panic - the problem is, Manic Panic is not available in my country :(
What is available though is a brand called La Riche Directions, here is the link to their website: http://www.lariche.co.uk/

My question is: does anyone have experience with this brand? Is it like MP? I don't want to damage my hair at all (I heard MP doesn't cause any damage) which is why I'm seeking your advice :)

if I go through with this I'll be posting about the progress here

Thanks in advance

UPDATE!

I FINALLY went through with it! After a lot of hesitation and strand tests I carefully applied the blue toner on my hennaed lengths and I was very very careful to fade out the blue around where my natural hair starts and I am happy to report that the transition is flawless :D it took me a few long hours to apply the toner though (especially since I was on the phone for a good half hour inbetween sections hehe) but it was so worth it! I'm planning to keep the effect up by mixing some blue toner with my conditioner once it starts fading. I really got used to the two toned look that I had with the henna and I sort of miss it now ;) at the same time I LOVE the effect and I've had a great hair day today.

Here are the pictures:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8311&d=1387571759

The "Before"
Because the 'after' pictures were taken in my bathroom (I have really favourable lighting there hehe) I struggled to find some 'before' pics from there. The closest I got is a pictures of a section of my hair and what my hair looked like with flash.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8308&d=1387571722

aaaand the "After".

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8309&d=1387571725

inbetween - my super profesh dyeing technique :P

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8310&d=1387571727

Bonus: my new profile picture from "the life of a bun" [with my not-so-red-anymore bun] ;)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8314&d=1387627331

the result in natural light

[AmyBeth]

I used Manic Panic in Enchanted Forest to tone my henna hair. I used about 1/2 teaspoon in 1/2 cup conditioner for about 10 minutes. Directions looks very much like Manic Panic so it should work. I wasn't worried about trying it because it is non-damaging and it will wash out eventually. It worked so beautifully for me to tone the redness and it did make my hair a bit darker.

[stachelbeere]

thanks AmyBeth.
was it staining a lot? should I be prepared for a huge mess or is it alright? ;) also, for my length I think that 1/2 cup conditioner would be faaar too much. Do you think 1/8 cup would be enough? Do I have to coat the hair thickly?

oh - and do you have pictures? :)

[RainbowBowser]

I've heard Directions is similar to- if not better- than Manic Panic as far as colour goes. Its definitely a standard semi-permanent hair colour. I don't know the details of damage however.

[Applegirl84]

I also tone brassiness with manic panic (shocking blue), but I use a different method. I mix a tsp of dye with about 6 cups of hot water and just dip my hair into the bowl. Then I dry it with a black towel and keep it in for 10-15min (while I clean up). Then shampoo and condition as usual. Yes it stains. I use gloves and wear a black shirt and use dark towels.

[Arctic]

I have used Directions, but have not used other, similar brands, so I cannot compare. One thing's for sure: unless you bleach your hair first, it doen not damage it, it's more like conditioner. Good luck!

[stachelbeere]

thanks everyone. i think i'm going to buy blue and yellow and mix them together, that way i'll be in control of the exact colour

[Juniper.]

I've been wanting to do this since I saw Applegirl84's thread about toning her hair with blue Manic Panic, but I've been a little worried about it turning my hennad portion darker than my roots (which can look pretty light in some lights).

Please let us know how it goes stachelbeere (pictures too!) - I can buy Directions in my city so that's what I'll also be using if I decide to go ahead with it.

[stachelbeere]

Alright Juniper! I'm ordering the colours tonight - I've chosen "Atlantic Blue" and "Daffodil". Then I'll mix them until I get the desired green tone (1 part yellow to 2 parts blue, I think), add to my conditioner and I'll do a few strand tests first... I'm getting excited about this!

[oatmealpie]

I used Directions mixed together with Adore and had similar results (conditioning, color) to Manic Panic. I think the color bled and faded a little less.

[stachelbeere]

oatmealpie what's Adore?

[Juniper.]

During my lunch today I went and bought my Directions (£3.99, bargain). I was also planning to use Atlantic Blue but they'd run out of that so, because I was so impatient, I decided to get Midnight Blue instead. I've opened the tub and it's still pretty bright so I don't know if there's too much difference between that and Atlantic Blue. I'll do a few experiments with quantities and ratios on some shed hair and if it's the wrong shade then it wasn't much money to waste (unlike Manic Panic at £11 per tub which, to my surprise, they also sold there, along with a few other brands I've not heard of).

Can't wait to see how my shed-hair tests turn out :)

[stachelbeere]

hehe that's awesome Juniper - post some pictures here :) what's your hair colour, or, what are your hair colours? ;)
my natural is medium ash brown, I have about 5 cm of regrowth.

so I ordered my colours yesterday, they should be here sometime this week as they were shipped out today. if they arrive on Friday I won't be able to do any experimenting until after the weekend, argh :/
so impatient...

[stachelbeere]

arghhhhh where are my toners?! can't wait!!!

[AmyBeth]

I'm sure they will come soon! I washed my hair for the first time since I used Manic Panic over my henna and I think most of it washed out already! I have those fiery glints again. But I don't really mind, I feel reassured that even if I make a mistake, it won't last long. Maybe I need to add some MP every time I condition and just leave it in for a few minutes.

[Juniper.]

Maybe tomorrow stachelbeere :) (do you have Saturday deliveries where you are?)

By the way, my natural colour is kind of blonette (I think). Here are my roots (both underneath sections so not much sun bleaching):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/10335732825_f558ffdec2.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2810/10335909213_3d7bec06c4.jpg

With dull and then brighter daylight from an opaque bathroom window.

I did a few tests yesterday evening with the Directions. One was just water with a little bit of the dye mixed in and the other was a squirt of conditioner with a few blobs of dye (probably 4:1 conditioner to dye). I left them both a little over 10 minutes and when I rinsed the hair it seemed the water and dye had taken better than the conditioner and dye. However, I think I can see a green tinge. Green isn't what I'm going for :p So I guess I need to play around with the ratios and timing a little more, or perhaps this shade of blue isn't quite right for me. I can't say the colour results I've had so far are something I'd want my whole henna'd length to be...

Further experimentation this weekend! :)

[prettyinpink]

Sorry if this changes the subject, but since concealer for acne is green to tone down red, maybe if you use green tea as a rinse, it will tone down the red in your hair

[stachelbeere]

I'm sure they will come soon! I washed my hair for the first time since I used Manic Panic over my henna and I think most of it washed out already! I have those fiery glints again. But I don't really mind, I feel reassured that even if I make a mistake, it won't last long. Maybe I need to add some MP every time I condition and just leave it in for a few minutes.

yeah, I'm thinking the same, if I make a mistake it'll wash away rather quickly, especially if I use a tiny bit ;) do you have any photos of the results?


Maybe tomorrow stachelbeere :) (do you have Saturday deliveries where you are?)

By the way, my natural colour is kind of blonette (I think). Here are my roots (both underneath sections so not much sun bleaching):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/10335732825_f558ffdec2.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2810/10335909213_3d7bec06c4.jpg

With dull and then brighter daylight from an opaque bathroom window.

I did a few tests yesterday evening with the Directions. One was just water with a little bit of the dye mixed in and the other was a squirt of conditioner with a few blobs of dye (probably 4:1 conditioner to dye). I left them both a little over 10 minutes and when I rinsed the hair it seemed the water and dye had taken better than the conditioner and dye. However, I think I can see a green tinge. Green isn't what I'm going for :p So I guess I need to play around with the ratios and timing a little more, or perhaps this shade of blue isn't quite right for me. I can't say the colour results I've had so far are something I'd want my whole henna'd length to be...

Further experimentation this weekend! :)

hmmm... I'm thinking that you're getting a green tinge because your hair is more orange/yellow than red... so if you add blue it'll become green... however, if you added a tiiiny bit of red (blue + red = purple) it should neutralize the green. I think. but that's me guessing.

and arrrgh, I'm gone for the weekend but I was hoping that I could have done a few experiments tonight or sunday evening... :/ :/ :/


Sorry if this changes the subject, but since concealer for acne is green to tone down red, maybe if you use green tea as a rinse, it will tone down the red in your hair

I'm not sure it'll work - green tea becomes 'orange' when it cools down...


also: here are a couple of picture of my roots vs henna. the pictures are a few months old but nothing really changed colourwise :)

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/stachelbeere/hair/ash%20brown%20roots%20and%20henna/_0016010_zpsfd41b098.jpg

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/stachelbeere/hair/ash%20brown%20roots%20and%20henna/_0016007_zps89ea6993.jpg

[stachelbeere]

it FINALLY arrived... off to do strand tests! :D

a few hours later:
...aaaaand nothing. I diluted the dye with a lot of conditioner but nothing happened. I'll check tomorrow when the sun is up, maybe it's just the artificial light but I doubt it. I did a strand test, then applied it on my length then reapplied some leftover dye on two segments to see if it catches. I think there was a minimal difference but meh, I'll see tomorrow. I think it's probably because my hair is rather dark...?

Next time I'll do a strand test with pure dye and with 1:1 CO to dye ratio. Oh, and more of the blue than the yellow. Now, I mixed a turquoise colour. Next time I'll mix a 'warm blue'.

[Juniper.]

Sorry your first attempt didn't work out, stachelbeere. Have you had another go?

I haven't had time to do anymore tests yet, but yes I think I do need to use a more purple-blue base. I figured with blue being the opposite of orange on the colour wheel it'd work but I guess my henna is too light orange. How come this was so simple for everyone else? :p

[stachelbeere]

Sorry your first attempt didn't work out, stachelbeere. Have you had another go?

I haven't had time to do anymore tests yet, but yes I think I do need to use a more purple-blue base. I figured with blue being the opposite of orange on the colour wheel it'd work but I guess my henna is too light orange. How come this was so simple for everyone else? :p

hey Juniper, I was actually tempted to do a simulation on photoshop with your hair and see what results different colour washes would give - what do you think, shall I? To be honest, working with colours is what I do best (me, artist. my main focus on what I do are indeed colours :p)

As for the toners I bought - I'm deeply disappointed! :( since I generally do WO and CO on my lengths I thought that maybe this was the reason why it didn't work the first time when I mixed the toners with my CO - it said that you're supposed to shampoo your hair then apply the toner whereas I mixed a bit with my CO. So I thoroughly shampooed a section of hair the next time and put full on blue and yellow toner (about 3 parts blue to 1 part yellow) and there is no visible difference :(
I don't know what to do with this dye; what if it's expired and I got a faulty product? I think I'm going to try it out on a blonde person (if they're willing to let me) and see if it actually works. Also, maybe I let it on too short, it said 15 minutes and I let it on for 15 mins.

Thoughts?

[Juniper.]

Sorry for the late reply! I've been rather busy lately.

You're more than welcome to do a colour simulation with my hair. I saw that you'd done it some time ago on your own and had been meaning to do it in Photoshop myself but never got round to it. So by all means go ahead :)

I'm surprised that there was no visible difference even when you put the undiluted dye onto your hair. I did that with some shed hair and it definitely dyed it (a teal green which would have been gorgeous if I was going for the mermaid look). I haven't yet purchased my red to make the purple toner, but I'll wait until you've done the colour simulation (if you want to do it).

Have you managed to try the dyes out on someone with blonde hair? I don't know how they could be faulty if the pigment is there in the dye, but then I don't know too much about deposit-only dyes. I suppose you could try leaving it on your hair 5/10 minutes or so longer. If by 15 minutes it's done nothing at all then I think it'll be safe leave it on a little longer and see what happens (probably best to do this on a hidden piece or shed hair though first :p)

[stachelbeere]

no worries, so have I ;)

I didn't really have time to find a volunteer to check the dye on and also to try it out again on myself; and I wasn't planning to do anything for another solid week or so - but thanks for replying in this thread, I now feel more motivated to do a few more tests! - possibly even tonight. I'll leave it on for an hour and see what happens. I'll also apply it on dry hair. I'll see if it'll darken my hair at all :)

of course I'll do the photoshop test for you. Unfortunately I can't access the 2nd photo you posted and as far as I remember it was better to do the photoshopping on - so could you repost it? or even a photo of your whole hair. anyway - let me crack open that dye again and see how it goes!

[Juniper.]

Again, sorry! I've really had too much on my mind to visit LHC recently but I can start coming here more again now.

How did your further tests go? I've literally done nothing since my first tests! I can now get back to it though because I'd really like to tone down this orange (which was actually henndigo and this colour when it was last done):

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5486/10966121965_1fca1fdf86.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/109315353@N02/10966121965/)
henndigo (http://www.flickr.com/photos/109315353@N02/10966121965/) by LHC photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/109315353@N02/), on Flickr

I did a few vitamin c treatments to lighten it up in spring which seemed to get rid of a lot of the indigo.

Below is the other photo again. I'm not sure why it's not displaying in the other post anymore.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5473/10966254966_d99a380567.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/109315353@N02/10966254966/)
roots (http://www.flickr.com/photos/109315353@N02/10966254966/) by LHC photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/109315353@N02/), on Flickr

The thing about henna/henndigo and also this kind of blonette/light brown hair is that it looks so different depending on the light. My natural hair can look so much ashier and grey in tone than this and the remaining henndigo sometimes looks a bit more red (sometimes simply brown!). Given that the above photo is natural lighting I guess it's the best one to use, but I do wish I had a better one. Please don't rush to do this though, whenever you have the time, no hurry at all. :) Thank you!

[ErinLeigh]

I think mixing blues and purple wold get you the right color. Diluted to a pastel actually. The hair doesn't seem orange enough to warrant a forest green type color.

[stachelbeere]

Juniper, I did some photoshop tests. Sorry it's so late, I was quiet busy in the last few weeks. I hope you're still up for some toning ;)
Basically what you'd need to do ideally (if it's possible) is using a white toner - but I'm not sure if it works on unbleached hair, you'd have to ask Manic Panic specialists about that :) or maybe you'd have to bleach it but I guess you wouldn't want to go through that trouble. Also the lighting of the picture is a little bit tricky, basically there is a bit of a shade in the coloured part of the hair which makes the hair appear darker (obviously).
Anyway:

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/stachelbeere/juniper_zpsb10f49c6.jpg

I did a test with blue and green as base colours (as you can see in the pictures on the left side) and they both make your hair darker. When I used the same colour with white in it I got pretty satisfactory results. Personally I'd go with the lavender - but then again I'm not too sure the white would actually do anything. If not you could use a tiny tiny bit of the blue with conditioner for a short amount of time but again, no idea how long and how much.
I hope I was of any help.

As for my attempts: they were successful in the end but I applied it on dry hair and left it on for over an hour. The colour I got was a daaark brown/ black and then faded gradually to a brown. since then I've been sort of too lazy to do it again and it would also make a bigger contrast between my ash brown hair and the colour I have now... I kind of would love to have some darker lowlights going on but I have no idea where to apply them as I have no experience. And now my regrowth is reaching my ears so that the henna is not as obvious as before so I don't mind. I'm even toying with the idea of buying red toner and redden the tips of my hennaed hair even more :) I may do this once my regrowth reaches my shoulders. let's see how it goes. for now I'm good :)

[Juniper.]

Thank you stachelbeere!

You're right, I definitely don't want to bleach my hair, so I know that whatever I do will result in the henna section being darker than the roots. Looks like a pale/pastel purple is what I'm going for then and if it doesn't work, well, I'll just live with it until I can cut it out. My roots are about eye/top of ear level and my hair is MBL, and when I get to WL I plan to maintain for a while and then cut it (maybe between APL and BSL) so that'll get rid of a good chunk of it. I can't wait to have all virgin hair :)

I'm glad you finally managed to find something that works for you! I bet the vivid red on the hennad ends would look great once the virgin growth is a little longer.

Thank you again for your help and taking the time to do the photoshop tests, and for letting me know about your progress :)

[stachelbeere]

You're welcome Juniper, no trouble at all :)

if you decide to go through the toning process I'd love to see the results :)

[stachelbeere]

UPDATE!

I FINALLY went through with it! After a lot of hesitation and strand tests I carefully applied the blue toner on my hennaed lengths and I was very very careful to fade out the blue around where my natural hair starts and I am happy to report that the transition is flawless :D it took me a few long hours to apply the toner though (especially since I was on the phone for a good half hour inbetween sections hehe) but it was so worth it! I'm planning to keep the effect up by mixing some blue toner with my conditioner once it starts fading. I really got used to the two toned look that I had with the henna and I sort of miss it now ;) at the same time I LOVE the effect and I've had a great hair day today :D

Here are the pictures:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8311&d=1387571759

The "Before"
Because the 'after' pictures were taken in my bathroom (I have really favourable lighting there hehe) I struggled to find some 'before' pics from there. The closest I got is a pictures of a section of my hair and what my hair looked like with flash.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8308&d=1387571722

aaaand the "After"

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8309&d=1387571725

inbetween - my super profesh dyeing technique :P

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8310&d=1387571727

Bonus: my new profile picture from "the life of a bun" [with my not-so-red-anymore bun] ;)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8314&d=1387627331

the result in natural light :)

[AmyBeth]

Love it! Mine fades really quickly so I can go back and forth between reddish brow to ash brown whenever I like !

[stachelbeere]

thanks :D I'm really curious how it'll be fading. right now I think the colour is a bit too dark but I guess it'll fade rather quickly. I also included a picture how it looks like in natural light and I definitely achieved a brunette look - unfortunately my roots are waaay lighter but it was also the case with henna. well it's something new for a change ;)