Hair Babying Questions

[Ashflower89]

Hello everyone! There is so much information here that I get dizzy, plus half the "hair help" links at the top of the forum are broken, so I wanted to ask a few questions.

#1. I have heard great things about olive oil, coconut oil, castor oil, argan oil, avocado oil, every oil I can think of. Can anyone narrow down the best 1 or 2? And where the heck I can buy them? And how often to use them?

#2. Prenatals. I am not a fan of putting things in my body that I don't fully understand, so I haven't tried them. But I've heard a large number of good things about prenatals for increased growth, increased shine, increased strength, etc etc. Can anyone give me the down-lo? Is it worth trying or for a while? Or a big no-no since I'm not expecting? I am already taking Biotin supplements, which, after an article I found on here debunking it, I'm not sure if I should continue, but I haven't had any negative effects and have been taking it for 2+ months.

#3. I realized one of the major routines around here that I'm not following is a deep conditioning treatment. I don't know if the oils I already mentioned are counted as a treatment, but I have been looking for one desperately. I bought some Organix Moroccan Argan Oil "paste/goop" treatment at Meijer, but I couldn't tell if it made my hair any happier after sitting for an entire hour. When I went to my local salon, they recommended Its a 10 Leave In Conditioner plus Keratin. I already have the regular blue/purple bottle of Its a 10, but I wasn't looking for a daily leave-in.... more like a once-a-week special treatment that sits for a while. Any advice?

So far since I joined this forum, I've gotten myself a cute black satin cap, I coat my ends in It's a 10 just before bed and just waking up, been saying no to the straightener, and I am much more gentle with brushing. Hooray for information!

[Firefox7275]

Coconut oil is the one with the evidence base. Just purchase from the grocery store, you don't need a pricey product, the researchers used a basic refined product.
http://journal.scconline.org//pdf/cc1999/cc050n06/p00327-p00339.pdf
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf

Penetrating oils can be used as a deep treatment on dry hair, but you wouldn't describe them as deep conditioning - a conditioner would contain the major emollients (fatty alcohols, cationic surfactants). First in a good series of articles
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-update-penetration.html

No pill replaces a nutrient dense varied and balanced wholefood diet. Any supplement regime should be tailored to the individual's diet, physical activity levels, health problems, medications, age/ gender and so on. Supplementing small groups, individuals or megadosing can do more harm than good by setting up or worsening imbalanced. You cannot say you have no negative effects unless you have had a rigorous health workup (signs), just you have not noticed any symptoms. Someone on here got the early stages of kidney failure from biotin - it's in loads of healthy foods, you might consider focussing on eating more of these.
http://igorsbelltower.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/infamous-biotin-rant.html

[Ashflower89]

Thank you Firefox. I will head to Walmart tomorrow and find some coconut oil, not sure if I should stick with the argan oil goop once I get that though. I know my diet isn't the best, working 3rd shift and sleeping excessively, poor quick microwave meals and such. Thank you for the link to all the nutrients I need, that will make it easier to narrow things down.

[Firefox7275]

Thank you Firefox. I will head to Walmart tomorrow and find some coconut oil, not sure if I should stick with the argan oil goop once I get that though. I know my diet isn't the best, working 3rd shift and sleeping excessively, poor quick microwave meals and such. Thank you for the link to all the nutrients I need, that will make it easier to narrow things down.

It's not difficult to eat healthily if you have a slow cooker/ crock pot, a stick blender and ideally a freezer. Make your own microwave meals in bulk - I can literally throw together a slow cooker meal in five minutes as do many of my time pressed nutrition clients, then you come home to delicious smells. Use frozen fruit, frozen veggies, canned oily fish, canned pulses, plain nuts and seeds none of which require any preparation time.

[shutterpillar]

I'm under the impression that for most people, prenatals do nothing or very little for your hair growth. I tried MSM and that did not work for me and made my acne worse, though some people have luck with it. You could try a basic one a day vitamin and add a fish oil capsule. Works for me. :) Not so much for growth, but for the overall condition of your hair as it grows. Of course PLEASE speak with a doctor before adding any vitamins or supplements to your diet.
Eating healthfully is also extremely important.

It's all really hit or miss with hair care. One thing that works for someone else may not work for you.

[Crumpet]

Seconding Firefox's slow cooker recommendation. Of course, I have a deep love affair with my slow cooker so be aware of that.

There are lots of great web resources for slow cooker recipes (lasagna, enchiladas, etc) which will give you a sense of how versatile it can actually be.

[Ashflower89]

Hmmm... perhaps I will ask for a slow cooker for Christmas then! And shutterpillar, thats a great idea, I hear so much about fish oils but never even thought of buying fish oil capsules. Duuuuh :P

[Vrindi]

#1. I have heard great things about olive oil, coconut oil, castor oil, argan oil, avocado oil, every oil I can think of. Can anyone narrow down the best 1 or 2? And where the heck I can buy them? And how often to use them?
Which oil works best for you is truly an individual preference. People either love or hate coconut oil. I love it. Coconut and almond oil for me, although I have been known to mop up spilled olive oil with my braid tassel, and my skin loves olive oil. I've just started using a bit of castor oil on my scalp, diluted with almond oil. Try one and see what you think. Get them at the grocery store, because the stuff "for hair" usually has added crap in it that you don't need. If you like the smell of coconut, go for unrefined. If you don't, get refined. Start with what you already have in the house and see if you like it.

#2. Prenatals. I am not a fan of putting things in my body that I don't fully understand, so I haven't tried them. But I've heard a large number of good things about prenatals for increased growth, increased shine, increased strength, etc etc. Can anyone give me the down-lo? Is it worth trying or for a while? Or a big no-no since I'm not expecting? I am already taking Biotin supplements, which, after an article I found on here debunking it, I'm not sure if I should continue, but I haven't had any negative effects and have been taking it for 2+ months.
Biotin should be enough. Make sure you're eating well, getting plenty of vitamins and protein in your normal diet, and supplement where you need to. I'm a vegetarian athlete, so I take a vegan multi-vitamin and whey protein, but that's for general health. Great general health = awesome hair. Make sure you drink lots of water too.

#3. I realized one of the major routines around here that I'm not following is a deep conditioning treatment. I don't know if the oils I already mentioned are counted as a treatment, but I have been looking for one desperately. I bought some Organix Moroccan Argan Oil "paste/goop" treatment at Meijer, but I couldn't tell if it made my hair any happier after sitting for an entire hour. When I went to my local salon, they recommended Its a 10 Leave In Conditioner plus Keratin. I already have the regular blue/purple bottle of Its a 10, but I wasn't looking for a daily leave-in.... more like a once-a-week special treatment that sits for a while. Any advice?
For most, a heavy oiling left on overnight and then washed out the next morning is all the deep treatment needed. Depending on whether your hair is needing protein or moisture will determine which kind of treatment is best. There are recipes on here for both, and plenty of store bought stuff. A popular deep moisture treatment is SMT (SnowyMoon's Moisture Treatment. It's famous on this forum.) My hair doesn't like extra protein, so someone else will have to help you with protein treatments.

[melusine963]

Thank you Firefox. I will head to Walmart tomorrow and find some coconut oil, not sure if I should stick with the argan oil goop once I get that though. I know my diet isn't the best, working 3rd shift and sleeping excessively, poor quick microwave meals and such. Thank you for the link to all the nutrients I need, that will make it easier to narrow things down.

Keep in mind that coconut oil is a solid at room temperature, so you'll be looking for a jar of solid white stuff. I recommend getting it in a jar rather than a bottle, because it'll make it much easier to scrape some out when you need it. Make sure what you buy is 100%, food grade coconut oil (rather than the cosmetic stuff which often has perfumes and preservatives added.

Coconut oil keeps for a long time, provided you keep it in the fridge and make sure it doesn't get contaminated with water (that will lead to it going rancid pretty quickly). A lot of us keep our main jar in the fridge and tranfer some into a little pot for daily/weekly use. That way the main jar stays clean and can be used for cooking, too.

If you're using it as a leave-in conditioner/detangler, you only need to use a tiny, tiny bit at a time. Scrape a little bit up with your finger nail, melt it between the palms of your hands, and smoothe it onto your hair, paying particular attention to your ends (which tend to be driest). In my case, I never apply coconut oil above my ears. My sclp produces enough oil, so I don't need to add extra there.

If you're using it as a thorough pre-wash soak, be careful about applying oil to your scalp. It works well for some people, but others get a lot of shedding from this.

Good luck!

[Ashflower89]

melusine963: thank youuuuu! I didn't realize how complicated this was, and had no idea it was a solid at room temp lol. Now I know exactly what to do and won't waste any money goofing it up.

Vrindi: I looked up the SMT, it sounds so simple! Definitely going to try it out and see how my hair likes it.

[melusine963]

melusine963: thank youuuuu! I didn't realize how complicated this was, and had no idea it was a solid at room temp lol. Now I know exactly what to do and won't waste any money goofing it up.

Vrindi: I looked up the SMT, it sounds so simple! Definitely going to try it out and see how my hair likes it.

I'm glad I could help. :) What took me a long time to figure out when I first started using coconut oil is that less is more. Yes, the oil is one of the few kinds that actually soaks into the hair shaft, but your hair can only soak up so much at a time. It's best to start off with a tiny amount, see how that does, and add a tiny bit more if needed. It's a lot easier to add a little more than to remove any oil if you put too much in!

If you're using coconut oil as a leave-in, there isn't really a consensus on whether to apply the oil to damp or to dry hair. I used to apply it to damp hair right after I'd washed it, but I realised after a while that it was going rancid in my hair and not smelling great. I only wash my hair once a week, so that's a long time for coconut oil to get unpleasant. I switched to oiling my hair when it had dried properly (and not applying more at a time than will happily soak in), and the problem was solved. I'm an embarrassingly slow learner, but I'm sure you'll have better luck as you experiment to see what works best for your hair.

[Sakuracha]

I wouldn't worry too much regarding having the right routine according to these boards. There are so many varied routines on this board that it's more important to find what works best for you and your hair. Personally, for me a natural routine works best: Chagrin Valley Shampoo Bars, vinegar rinses, coconut oil. For others it might be coney shampoos and conditioners. With trial and error you'll find your routine.

[Naiadryade]

I'll throw out there that if the coconut oil doesn't agree with your hair, try olive oil. (Again, not a lot. I use 3-5 drops for all my hair. With your short hair, you'd probably only want 1-2 drops.) Those are probably the two most popular every day oils on here, and if one doesn't work for someone often the other will. My hair definitely prefers olive oil for every day use--it gives me great softness and slip, whereas it tangles easier with coconut oil. My hair does love a medium to heavy oiling with coconut oil 12 to 24 hours before I wash, as a pre-poo "deep treatment" of sorts, though!

If both coconut and olive oil seem too heavy for your hair, you might want to try sweet almond oil next.

The best rule of thumb for everything on here is to experiment, with ONE thing at a time, and pay close attention to how your hair reacts to each new thing. Everyone's hair is different, and it may take some trial and error to figure out what your hair likes best.

Good luck!

[Panth]

Hello everyone! There is so much information here that I get dizzy, plus half the "hair help" links at the top of the forum are broken, so I wanted to ask a few questions.

#1. I have heard great things about olive oil, coconut oil, castor oil, argan oil, avocado oil, every oil I can think of. Can anyone narrow down the best 1 or 2? And where the heck I can buy them? And how often to use them?

As Firefox said, coconut oil is the one that is proven scientifically to improve hair - it is just about the only oil proven to enter the hair shaft, which enables it to prevent protein loss and increase suppleness. However, bear in mind that some people's hair really doesn't like it. Also, you may find your hair likes/hates it depending on how you use it. E.g. a heavy oiling before washing (overnight soak then washed out is used in the scientific literature), or a very light oiling on the length or just the ends as a leave-in (applied either to wet or dry hair).

The other oils are usually used as a light leave-in oiling on the length or just the ends. This is usually for shine/slip. They can also be used on damp hair to "seal" it - i.e. to retard the loss of water from the hair shaft. Which oil people use for this purpose seems to be about personal preference - coconut, olive, etc.

Castor oil is the odd one out - it is primarily used in an attempt to stimulate hair growth directly. It is quite gloopy and thick and may need to be mixed with a lighter oil to enable easy application. It is (I think) put on the scalp and massaged on ... maybe left for a while, then washed out (?). There is no proof that this actually increases hair growth - IMO, any increased growth is probably due to the scalp massages (by encouraging good blood flow to the scalp).

In all cases, you're looking for pure, food-grade oil. Don't bother with stuff sold specifically for hair - usually if you read the ingredients list you'll find that there's a tiny bit of oil in it and it's mostly silicones and other ingredients. Not helpful!


#2. Prenatals. I am not a fan of putting things in my body that I don't fully understand, so I haven't tried them. But I've heard a large number of good things about prenatals for increased growth, increased shine, increased strength, etc etc. Can anyone give me the down-lo? Is it worth trying or for a while? Or a big no-no since I'm not expecting? I am already taking Biotin supplements, which, after an article I found on here debunking it, I'm not sure if I should continue, but I haven't had any negative effects and have been taking it for 2+ months.

Randomly taking supplements (i.e. without a doctor's advice in response to a known deficiency or disease) is not good for health. Certain vitamins can be overdosed on. Equally, the uptake of vitamins and minerals is very inter-dependent and if you overdose on one it is possible (depending on the vitamin) to actually cause an overdose or a deficiency in another. Generally, it's a bad plan. If you think you are deficient, it's much better to improve your diet (and/or, to go to a doctor and get your vitamin/mineral deficiency properly diagnosed).

That said, the whole prenatal vitamins for hair growth thing is based on a misunderstanding. It is the hormones of pregnancy, not the prenatal vitamins, that cause pregnant women to have thick, amazing hair. Basically, these hormones inhibit hair follicles from ending their anagen (growing) phase. Thus, most of the hairs that would have normally fallen out during those 9 months don't, resulting in super-thick hair. The hormones may also improve growth rate. Unfortunately, this is also the reason for the common problem of a mega-hair shed post-pregnancy: once those hormones have gone (after their source, the placenta, is delivered) all of those hair follicles in unusually-extended anagen suddenly stop being in anagen - they go to catagen (transition) phase for ~3 weeks, then telogen (resting) phase for ~3 months, during which the hairs fall out.


#3. I realized one of the major routines around here that I'm not following is a deep conditioning treatment. I don't know if the oils I already mentioned are counted as a treatment, but I have been looking for one desperately. I bought some Organix Moroccan Argan Oil "paste/goop" treatment at Meijer, but I couldn't tell if it made my hair any happier after sitting for an entire hour. When I went to my local salon, they recommended Its a 10 Leave In Conditioner plus Keratin. I already have the regular blue/purple bottle of Its a 10, but I wasn't looking for a daily leave-in.... more like a once-a-week special treatment that sits for a while. Any advice?

Meh, I don't do a deep conditioning treatment either. I just do plain and boring shampoo and conditioner 2-3x week. As a newbie, it's often very tempting to jump on board with all the advice and try EVERYTHING all at once. Try not to, for two reasons. Firstly, half of those things won't work for you - you're getting a list of everything that works for everyone, and a lot of what works for one person will not work for another. A good idea is to get your hair typed, if you haven't already (that's those funny "1b/F/ii" type things next to everyone's names). This will tell you how wavy/curly, how coarse/fine and how thick/thin your hair is. You can then find people with similar hair types and ask them for routine advice. You can also look out for people with similar damage histories (e.g. prolific flat iron users, or people growing out bleach) and try routines specifically for that. This will help you weed through the advice and find the stuff most likely to work for you.

Secondly, it's a good idea to try things one at a time. It's very tempting to try to change your routine completely, to get the best possible hair as fast as possible. However, if you change lots of things at once and something is not working then it'll be very hard to find out what the problem is. It's much better to do a basic routine and then try things one by one and see if they are good or not - it takes longer that way but is much less disaster-prone.


So far since I joined this forum, I've gotten myself a cute black satin cap, I coat my ends in It's a 10 just before bed and just waking up, been saying no to the straightener, and I am much more gentle with brushing. Hooray for information!

Hooray indeed. ^_^ It sounds like you are doing lots of good things. Quitting the straightener in particular will result in a great improvement in your hair - just remember, the hair that has been straightened will never "heal" itself, so you may well have to baby it for quite some time. So, if you keep getting split ends for months to come, don't despair at your routine - it's probably just the old damage. However, if you make all these positive changes then you'll be growing in super-healthy, super-beautiful hair to replace it.

[Anje]

Oils... To start with, try coconut oil. Not too much, and try it on dry hair, damp hair after washing, and a few hours before washing. If you're going to like it (and not everyone does), one of those three will probably be better for you than the others. My personal preference is to apply just a drop or two of oil to my wet hair right after I take it out of a towel. If coconut oil fails, I think apricot kernel oil or sweet almond oil would be good second choices -- both tend to be very lightweight ones and aren't particularly expensive, and they tend to be fairly popular. Most likely, you'll find them as carrier oils for aromatherapy or massage, and you're most likely to find them in a local natural/health foods/hippy store. Olive oil is a good one to try because most people have it on hand, but it tends to be viscous and is easy to over-apply, so I tend to think of it better for very wavy or curly hair where clumping is desirable. Argan oil's currently popular, but it's expensive and a lot of people end up getting what amounts to silicone hair serum with a drop of argan in it. I sort of consider it a fad oil -- I've seen several come and go now.

ETA: It's worth realizing that almost everyone over-oils their first few tries. Seriously, start with 1 drop, maybe 2 if your hair is really thick. If you put enough on that your hair looks oiled, you've overdone it.

Prenatals. I'll stay with what's already been stated... a multivitamin might not be a bad move as a backup for nutrition, but eating well is definitely your best bet.

Deep treatments. Deep treatments are good, but definitely not a necessity. Lots of us get beautiful hair on benign neglect alone. Personally, anything that says "with keratin" makes me shy away, but that's because I know that my hair reacts badly to added protein. Some people do great with it, so it's absolutely a personalized thing. It's pretty obvious around here that I'm a huge fan of the SMT (check over in the Recipes section) as a moisture treatment. Again, it's not for everyone, but a lot of people find it gives amazing results that last for weeks, and it's really easy to throw together on a lazy evening.