Major tangling issue....

[WoolSweater]

I'm having a difficult time with my hair after I've showered. It mats up, with the tangles starting mid-length (for me, that is the back of my skull/nape of my neck). It never tangles in the front, or at the very top; only this section, which then causes the rest of the length to mat up with it. This has not always been the case. It started several years ago, and I thought it was because I'd done chemical dye, but after a pixie cut and the dye grown out, my hair still tangled. Fast forward to now, and the longer my hair gets, the more horrible it tangles. It's not as if I'm rigorously washing my hair! I'm very gentle with shampoo/conditioner, and my hair pre-shower is tangle free. The mess after the shower is impossible to tame. I do comb it (yes I know, you shouldn't brush wet hair) but I have to! I've switched shampoos several times, tried a hair bar which seemed to make it worse, and done ACV rinses, cold water rinses, deep conditioning.... nothing is working, and it continues to get worse. When I comb it when wet, I hear my hair breaking. I've finally grown to the point of feeling this isn't quite normal and maybe there's something I can do to stop it. It's very frustrating, and while I know it's such a small drop in the bucket of all the major things going on in the world, I'd like to go sans rat's nest. :(


Any clues as to why my hair is tangling up just in the back? Have I not found the correct shampoo yet?

Details: my hair is extremely fine but thick (for me), oil prone at the roots, and silky; too silky to do most up-dos. I don't use any unnatural products/sprays/gels.

Thanks in advance!

[Firefox7275]

What products are you using and what are all the ingredients? Too much protein, too little protein? Not enough leave in conditioner, too much leave in conditioner? Are you expecting wavy hair to be completely tangle free and your hands/ comb to run through easily? When exactly does the tangling occur, presumably you are relatively smooth when absolutely dripping wet?

Are you moving around too much as you let your hair air dry? Since my hair got past APL (again!) it's tended to rub on clothing and seats more, I tend to 'divide' the back so each half come forwards over each shoulder, have you tried that?

It's not shampoo that prevents tangling tho it can cause it, co-washing can really help and cleanses oily hair fine if done right. You can comb wet hair, just be super gentle and only do it with a slippy conditioner on your head. If you are getting breakage your technique is off: be more patient, work in small sections, bottom up, fingers first then a very wide tooth detangling comb.

[catasa]

Have you tried to clarify? I guess you probably have, and it also seems strange that it only tangles in the back if buildup is the problem, but maybe you don´t succeed in getting all conditioner rinsed out for example and it builds up extra at that spot? Just a thought...

Also, have you tried mineral oil? I have seen in other posts that it apparently works great for some people at least as a detangling aid (just a few drops, not too much as it easily looks oily, as leave-in). I don´t have tangle-prone hair myself so I haven´t tried that aspect of mineral oil, but I love it for other things (shine, softness). I can also mention that my hair actually got better in every aspect since I stopped using conditioner completely, I just use mineral oil leave in. Not something that would work for everyone I realize and as I said, I didn´t have problems with tangles before either, but maybe something to try if you get even more desperate. I always felt that conditioner just coated my hair and made it feel icky and coarse, it could be that it also coats your hair and causes it to tangle worse.

Good luck! :blossom:

[spidermom]

Perhaps a coney leave-in, just a few drops, to aid in detangling.

[Flor]

You mean, it gets tangled when you wash it? Or does it continue to tangle after it's dry? Does it get better when it gets oily a few days later?

[Kelikea]

My hair gets tangly when I shampoo, so I usually CO-wash, and then clarify once a week. I use VO5 coconut conditioner, slightly diluted, as my co-wash, and I can comb through my wet hair in about 4 swipes. When I shampoo, or clarify, it is much more tangly, but I feel it needs to be cleaned that well once a week, so I just deal with it. I have some Garnier Fructis sleek and shine leave-in conditioning cream that helps a bit.

Do you use a towel to dry your hair? Maybe its getting roughed up from the towel? Can you try squeezing it gently from top to bottom, then comb gently, then turbie it? I just got a turbie twist from Walmart, and love it.

[donnalouise]

My hair also tangles in the back of my neck, which is where it's most curly. I have to be super careful everytime i get it wet and careful how i wash it. My washing routine to avoid tangles is something like this:

- Brush out VERY well while the hair is still dry, immediately before getting in the shower. If my hair isn't already very greasy, i'll add oil to help with this process. Then, i'll make sure all my hair is brushed back and behind my back before i jump in the shower and get it wet.
- When in the shower i NEVER put my length on top of my head when shampoo-ing or in any way disturb the length. I massage shampoo into my scalp only and don't go "round in circles" when i rub the shampoo in, but 'back and forth' sort of rubbing my fingers through my scalp along the lines of my hair (so as not to tangle anything or disturb the lengths).
- Rinse VERY well. During rinsing i continue massaging my scalp to get rid of all the soap as i mentioned above. It takes quite a long time without being able to move my hair around too much but it works for me. I rinse a LOT to make sure no soap is left in my hair. I keep all my hair behind me for rinsing and don't pull it forwards.
- Add conditioner to the lengths carefully. This is the only time i'll move the lengths during washing, i can use my fingers to gently pull out any tangles that do occur and generally smooth my hair and make sure it's all good. Then wash out all in one direction without moving.
- Squeeze lengths gently to remove water at the end. WHen i get out the shower, i put a towel on top of my hair and then tuck it under the length, again all without moving it too much. I only leave the towel on for a few minutes, then i take it off and leave it to air dry.

Sounds much more hassle than it really is! It works pretty good for me. Most crucial step is making sure your hair is tangle free before getting in the shower, and then perhaps finger combing it in the shower during conditioning stage.

Good luck.

[Panth]

If it's specifically the nape only, then I suggest:

- being exceedingly thorough about washing out all wash-out product (i.e. shampoo, conditioner) when in the shower. The nape area has the greatest amount of hair covering it so is most prone to being improperly rinsed, particularly in thick hair. Perhaps try sectioning the hair when rinsing to ensure everything is properly rinsed out.

- trying updos, as nape tangling is often from rubbing on collars

[WoolSweater]

I skimmed over all the responses (wow, thank you everyone!) and will respond in detail more, but here's the gist of what happens; it tangles in the shower, right after shampoo is applied. I guess from what I've taken in is that I make the mistake of disrupting the length, as in, my shampooed hair gets massaged up to the top of my head. The last shampoo purchase was a clarifier. I shampoo, leave on a tiny bit, then rinse. Then I condition and while it's on, do touch-up shaving. My showers last no longer than ten minutes? I carefully towel dry it, but by then it is already extremely matted. During the next couple days if I don't have work, I don't wash my hair to give it a rest, and it's usually super smooth. I think the tangling is getting worse because I have to wash it every single night, very well, sometimes twice. But it's odd that it only mats on the back of my head, in the same spot. I do rinse very well, but I don't think it's product leave-in because the matting happens when wet, right when shampoo is being applied.

I've tried almost all of Giovanni's hair shampoos, hair shampoo bars, beer shampoo, tea tree, etc. I used to avoid conditioner because my hair is already oily, but I've been using it for the past year and it does not seem to help the tangling, only brushing it out afterwards.



Edit: Co-wash? Going out on a limb here and guessing you're saying to wash my hair with coconut oil? Or am I so wrong? Haha.

[WoolSweater]

Read some more, so I'll respond better:

I've never used oil... oil scares me! Haha, my hair is so oily on its own so I always avoided it. I've heard good things about argan oil, however.

Once I comb out the wet tangles, my hair is silky but frizzy, no tangles though. It doesn't mat itself up when dry, and it's not long enough to get caught up in clothes/collars/etc. The matting really happens at the back of my head, and it affects the length, if this makes sense. But only when wet.

Not sure about protein....? I have to use a clarifying shampoo, and I think it's beginning to really dry my hair out. But if I work, I have to use it. It's Giovanni 50:50.


Edit: I realize I just said two contrasting things. My hair used to be very oily, but now that I've switched to washing my hair every single day, it's drying out. The scalp and roots will be oily the next morning, but the ends are dry.

[Flor]

My guess is you may find this helpful :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzEjdmXaUUU

[Firefox7275]

I skimmed over all the responses (wow, thank you everyone!) and will respond in detail more, but here's the gist of what happens; it tangles in the shower, right after shampoo is applied. I guess from what I've taken in is that I make the mistake of disrupting the length, as in, my shampooed hair gets massaged up to the top of my head. The last shampoo purchase was a clarifier. I shampoo, leave on a tiny bit, then rinse. Then I condition and while it's on, do touch-up shaving. My showers last no longer than ten minutes? I carefully towel dry it, but by then it is already extremely matted. During the next couple days if I don't have work, I don't wash my hair to give it a rest, and it's usually super smooth. I think the tangling is getting worse because I have to wash it every single night, very well, sometimes twice. But it's odd that it only mats on the back of my head, in the same spot. I do rinse very well, but I don't think it's product leave-in because the matting happens when wet, right when shampoo is being applied.

I've tried almost all of Giovanni's hair shampoos, hair shampoo bars, beer shampoo, tea tree, etc. I used to avoid conditioner because my hair is already oily, but I've been using it for the past year and it does not seem to help the tangling, only brushing it out afterwards.



Edit: Co-wash? Going out on a limb here and guessing you're saying to wash my hair with coconut oil? Or am I so wrong? Haha.


Read some more, so I'll respond better:

I've never used oil... oil scares me! Haha, my hair is so oily on its own so I always avoided it. I've heard good things about argan oil, however.

Once I comb out the wet tangles, my hair is silky but frizzy, no tangles though. It doesn't mat itself up when dry, and it's not long enough to get caught up in clothes/collars/etc. The matting really happens at the back of my head, and it affects the length, if this makes sense. But only when wet.

Not sure about protein....? I have to use a clarifying shampoo, and I think it's beginning to really dry my hair out. But if I work, I have to use it. It's Giovanni 50:50.


Edit: I realize I just said two contrasting things. My hair used to be very oily, but now that I've switched to washing my hair every single day, it's drying out. The scalp and roots will be oily the next morning, but the ends are dry.

What do you mean you "have to" wash with clarifying shampoo every day "sometimes twice"? You mean to feel clean? That is going to strip, thin, irritate and dehydrate your scalp, which will cause it to pump out more sebum in a desperate attempt to protect itself from the chemical assault. It will also damage your hair. There is a ton of essential oils in that product that can add to the skin irritation.
http://www.eczema.org/aqeous
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/06/sulfate-free-shampoos-genuinely-gentle.html
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair?page=4

Switch to a gentler cleansing method/ product - that does not mean having dirty hair, at least not long term. Try dry shampoo like Batiste to stretch to two days sometimes. For 'dirty days' use a sulphate free shampoo based on cocoamidopropyl betaine: this is strong enough to remove silicones, which are basically oils with extra sticking power, but is also much much less irritating to skin than sulphates and olefin sulfonates.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/ingredients/zwitterionic-surfactants-a-milder-alternative

Wet your head well in COLD water before you shampoo, this helps empty the sebaceous glands of sebum. Try shampooing not by massaging in circles but by finger combing along the scalp from edges to crown. Some find it easier to section the hair, to dilute the shampoo in a nozzle bottle and squirt on the scalp, to wash with their head upside down - anything that gets right to the underlayers.

CO-washing is conditioner only washing. I can heavy coconut oil my head (two to three tablespoons) and still get that clean and shiny, literally squeaky clean. You don't use a regular rich conditioner but a light oil free one that lightly lathers when massaged. I won't lie it's strange initially, but you can think of it like cleaning your make up with a lotion cleanser then rinsing your face in fresh water. Personally I had a less oily scalp and face the first week, but others take weeks or months for their scalp to calm down.

If you oil your hair you oil as much or as little as you feel needs oiling, most of us do not go right up to the roots routinely. Some lightly do ends only and leave hidden in a bun, some totally soak ends and part of the lengths and leave in overnight before washing out - conditioner works better than shampoo IMO. Coconut oil is proven king for penetrating reducing porosity and increasing elasticity, oils rich in oleic acid (olive, avocado, sweet almond, argan) can also penetrate. Other oils may not penetrate but may be used for detangling either straight up or as an ingredient in a conditioner.

[WoolSweater]

What do you mean you "have to" wash with clarifying shampoo every day "sometimes twice"? You mean to feel clean? That is going to strip, thin, irritate and dehydrate your scalp, which will cause it to pump out more sebum in a desperate attempt to protect itself from the chemical assault. It will also damage your hair. There is a ton of essential oils in that product that can add to the skin irritation.



I work with very ill animals. Most of the diseases are airborne, so washing hair very well with a clarifying shampoo is a must. The disease can live and thrive in hair and be transferred to another animal. Hair caps are not an option because *you* try wearing one while holding down a squirming 100 pound dog. ;-)

[Othala]

I recommend a good detangler such as Kinky Curly Knot Today. It has natural ingredients.

Good luck. I hope you find a satisfactory solution.

Can I also say a big thank you to you for caring for animals. :blossom:

[Kelikea]

co-wash means that I wash my hair with conditioner instead of shampoo. I use the vO5 coconut conditioner.

[lapushka]

I have F hair as well, and my hair (at waist length) does tangle. So because my shampoo is already harsh (both sls & sles), we condition twice after washing. It helps lots, especially if you give the conditioners a couple of minutes to sink in and process. Perhaps conditioning twice after washing is an idea. It certainly can't hurt!

[Firefox7275]

I work with very ill animals. Most of the diseases are airborne, so washing hair very well with a clarifying shampoo is a must. The disease can live and thrive in hair and be transferred to another animal. Hair caps are not an option because *you* try wearing one while holding down a squirming 100 pound dog. ;-)

Cocoamidopropyl betaine is considered clarifying in the right formulation - as a main surfactant, not loaded with conditioning agents - do you need to use olefin sulfonate which is one of the most irritant surfactants? Ditto the essential oils, maybe go for a really simple shampoo 'base' from a cosmetic base supplier that has as few ingredients as possible. Could you bun your hair and cover the bun really carefully so it's primarily the roots that needs cleansing? Also consider the pH of your products: pH ~4.5 will encourage the cuticle to lay flat so discouraging detangling, pH ~5.5 is ideal for skin health.

[WoolSweater]

I recommend a good detangler such as Kinky Curly Knot Today. It has natural ingredients.

Good luck. I hope you find a satisfactory solution.

Can I also say a big thank you to you for caring for animals. :blossom:


Thank you, that is sweet. :-) I will definitely get this product, I've seen it in the shopping aisles before!


--

Conditioner wash? Is there an oily adjustment period? I've read the blogs about women who ditch shampoo, and I cringe at how long I'd go around with oily hair.

I will give conditioning twice a go, thanks for the tip!


I'm not sure about the fine science of ingredients in shampoo, but a clarifying one will strip everything out of my hair (not to mention the gross stuff we spray on ourselves at work to kill the airborne germs). My hair is too short for buns...slips right out. :-( Plus, if I could paint the imagery right, just picture a puppy going spastic on you while you're holding it, tearing at your clothes, name tag, hair... especially hair. Puppies love to attack hair. I usually French braid it but that gets done over and over between each animal.

Do those PH testing strips work with shampoos? Hm... maybe I'll test my shampoo/conditioner!

PS- I forgot to say thank you to you, too, so sorry! Thank you!

[WoolSweater]

My guess is you may find this helpful :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzEjdmXaUUU

Wow... I've been doing it so wrong. I am going to shampoo just like this, except will add more to my length because of the aforementioned job thing. But man. So wrong. 8(

[BlazingHeart]

Oh yeah, the piling the hair up is definitely going to be one of the problems.

The other thing I'd recommend that I haven't seen so far in the responses is a shower comb. Get a good plastic comb that doesn't have seams (there are all kinds of recommendations on the site, but Madora combs and Hair Sense combs seem to be particularly popular). After you put in your conditioner, comb through your hair, especially the bits that get tangly. The slick lubrication of the conditioner will help the comb go through your hair without breaking hairs - that's what most curly haired folks do, and many wavies.

Are you starting with the comb at your scalp? That's a big no-no, it basically piles up all of your knots on the way out. You want to start an inch or two from the roots and comb down, then come up an inch or two and repeat. You'll figure out how much distance you can go at a time without breaking hair, just listen.

A clarifying shampoo really is doing more than you should need to get everything out. Honest. I used to work with horses, which meant getting covered in everything (including fly spray, yech!), and a normal shampoo - which is less harsh than clarifying but still has surfectants - really should do the job, with much less stripping of your hair and scalp. Unless you're REALLY covered in muck (like, got directly puked or pooped on), you shouldn't need two washes, either (and even then, a very thorough rinse before the first shampoo should do the job - horses are rather free with pooping on short people, if one isn't paying attention, and I worked with horses that were proportionately quite tall for me, so...yeah. I do not miss THAT, either, much as I miss the ponies). I think you've gotten used to equating stripped with clean, and they're not the same. If you rub your fingers on your hair after you shampoo, it should NOT squeak! Squeaky hair is stripped hair.

It also sounds like you may need a heavier conditioner than you're using. People around here are pretty split on cones; I'm pretty miserable without them, personally. I used to get horrible nape tangles exactly like you're describing in my teens, when I used too harsh a shampoo and not a strong enough conditioner. Nowadays, I'm actually one of the rare folks who does well with a 2-in-1. My scalp isn't thrilled about the SLS, but that's because I have psoriasis - a lot of people can use it just fine as long as it's not too harsh. I use Garnier Fructis 2-in-1, but I do have medium-to-coarse, very thick, unusually tough hair, so I don't know that it'd be a good choice for most people. My hair can literally be used for thread in a pinch. But the basic thesis here still holds - it sounds like you're taking out too much and not putting enough back, if you will, and that creates dry, tangly hair.

[WoolSweater]

If it was just poop, or throw up, or blood, I wouldn't be stripping so harshly... it's the airborne diseases I am stripping. I hold and care for the sick ones, and inevitably my hair is coughed upon/chewed on/clawed/mussed up by a frantic dog/cat. But poop? Whatever. ;-)

By now it's sank in that I am taking more away than putting back, but there is no second option, except what some of my co-workers do... wash in bleach. No kidding, and no way.

Buuut... all this aside.... my hair was tangling before I began with sick animals. Hah, darn hair! I will start doing a lot of things mentioned, and thank you so much for the comb tip bit...I was not combing correctly. I begin from the top and tried to work down which leaves little balls of knots at the end. :(

[BlazingHeart]

Hmm...what about an anti-bacterial shampoo? I know they exist, and vary from having things like salicylic acid to tea tree oil to more synthetic antibacterial agents in them.

[WoolSweater]

I was using Giovanni's Tea Tree shampoo, but my scalp hated me. Haven't tried the salicylic acid, so I will look it up! I feel like if I go down the synthetic cleaning agents route, I might as well be doing a bleach wash just like the coworkers. Or maybe I am being overly clean? This is possible. I just don't like the idea of snuggling up to my pillow with a head full of doggy illness. Yuck. Or parvo, which is running rampant, and believe me, poop gets in my hair..

But, fellow LHCers, I just washed my hair the correct way... high fives all around?!

[Flor]

High five!! :hifive:

[BlazingHeart]

Honestly, from your description of why you're using clarifying shampoo, I don't understand why you think it's necessary, as opposed to a regular shampoo. In both cases, what you're doing is using a liquid that includes a surfectant, which loosens and removes debris and excess oil. Clarifying shampoos have stronger surfectants in them, generally speaking, and little to no conditioning agents to balance them. I suppose you might compare it to using relatively harsh laundry soap to wash your hands instead of hand soap - the hand soap is designed to be kinder to your skin, but both loosen and remove bacteria, dirt, and oil. One is just much harder on your body than the other - it doesn't actually do more to remove the germs. That is to say, yeah, you may be being 'overly clean', to use your words.

I wonder if using a soap-based shampoo might make you feel better, since you know that washing your body with soap is sufficient, right? In that case, maybe look into getting a Chagrin Valley shampoo bar. That would probably be easier and less stripping on your hair while still providing the peace of mind you're getting from your current harsh shampoos.

[Panth]

If it was just poop, or throw up, or blood, I wouldn't be stripping so harshly... it's the airborne diseases I am stripping. I hold and care for the sick ones, and inevitably my hair is coughed upon/chewed on/clawed/mussed up by a frantic dog/cat. But poop? Whatever. ;-)

By now it's sank in that I am taking more away than putting back, but there is no second option, except what some of my co-workers do... wash in bleach. No kidding, and no way.

Buuut... all this aside.... my hair was tangling before I began with sick animals. Hah, darn hair! I will start doing a lot of things mentioned, and thank you so much for the comb tip bit...I was not combing correctly. I begin from the top and tried to work down which leaves little balls of knots at the end. :(

Honestly, I think you're over-reacting. There are scientists who work with incredibly dangerous diseases such as bubonic plague and ebola and I can assure you that they aren't using bleach to wash their hair.

What diseases do these animals have? Many diseases simply don't cross from animals to humans with any ease at all (pig diseases being one of the few major exceptions). Also, the vast majority of diseases (even MRSA and C. difficile) are killed by proper washing with ... just plain simple soap.

If you really are still concerned, how about learning to do some good updos and investing in some hair coverings, e.g. buffs. That way, you could wash the hair covering very harshly and save a more gentle wash for your hair.

[Squiggy]

Hello there! So, as someone with a PhD in microbiology and immunology, let me say that you really don't need to strip your hair so much every day. Any gentle cleanser will kill virtually all bacteria and viruses you could pick up from the animals. And, as Panth mentioned, many of these diseases may not be able to infect humans. For instance, you cannot contract parvo from an animal because parvo viruses are species specific. You likely had human parvovirus as a small child, though!

If you want to know about the diseases you encounter, PM me and I can give you some more info.

[WoolSweater]

Responders, I'm not afraid for my wellbeing at all. I have animals at home at any number of time, and I work with illness. Just a bit peeved the PHDers are here to tell me I don't know my stuff. I don't need to know more about the diseases I work with, I work with them every single day. I know what they are, I see what they do, and I don't want a dog dropping dead on my carpet because it came in contact with something I brought home from work. I don't strip my hair because I'm worried about me, I'm worried about the animals. I know humans can't get parvo. It's other animals that are my concern. And please don't say it can't be transferred; it can. Some of the diseases can incubate, and you better believe each one of us working at this place has been the cause of another animal getting sick because we missed one spot when cleaning ourselves.

And those scientists who work with ebola? They wear layers upon layers of protective clothing, hair caps, the whole nine yards. I'm lucky if my scrub top doesn't get clawed off me by the end of the day.


I know you're trying to help, but it's coming off as patronizing and like I don't know anything. I'm one of the people who don't euthanize animals because they have a potentially deadly disease, and to tell me I don't know what I'm dealing with... I see it every day.

:soapbox:


Besides, I said any number of times my hair was tangling before I began with the extremely sick animals. But hey, if my washing methods are what's causing the matting up, animals>hair.

[Squiggy]

Responders, I'm not afraid for my wellbeing at all. I have animals at home at any number of time, and I work with illness. Just a bit peeved the PHDers are here to tell me I don't know my stuff. I don't need to know more about the diseases I work with, I work with them every single day. I know what they are, I see what they do, and I don't want a dog dropping dead on my carpet because it came in contact with something I brought home from work. I don't strip my hair because I'm worried about me, I'm worried about the animals. I know humans can't get parvo. It's other animals that are my concern. And please don't say it can't be transferred; it can. Some of the diseases can incubate, and you better believe each one of us working at this place has been the cause of another animal getting sick because we missed one spot when cleaning ourselves.

I didn't mean any offense. You have never said what it is you do other than work with sick animals, and never mentioned having animals at home, so I'm sorry if I came off as patronizing. From the tone of your previous comments and your specific mention of parvo, plus the fact you never mentioned animals at your own home, my understanding was that you were worried for your own well being. I was only trying to put your mind at rest that you yourself cannot get sick from a majority of animal diseases. Honestly, the only reason I even mentioned my degree was because I thought you were concerned about your health and wanted you to know I wasn't just some random person with no real knowledge spouting second hand information. Again, my apologies for misunderstanding you.

So, back to that tangling... did washing your hair the "right" way help any? I know some people use something like Silk Drops or another coney serum to help with detangling after a wash. That might help too.

[kaydana]

You said "I usually French braid it but that gets done over and over between each animal", but if the cleanliness of your hair is so important that you are absolutely required to wash it with a clarifying shampoo every day (as opposed to anything else that would clean your hair) why are you not washing your hair between each animal? You say that diseases can be transferred by hair, yet you wear your hair in such a way that animals are able to chew on/touch it. Hair issues aside, if this is as much of a problem as you say it is you need to find a way to cover your hair securely so that the animals you work with can't get at it. If it's not possible to cover your hair securely and this really is as serious as you suggest, this isn't the right time for you to be growing your hair.

You seem to be contradicting yourself a lot, which makes it very hard to offer any constructive advice.

[BlazingHeart]

I sincerely apologize if I'm coming off as patronizing! I do a lot of work in disability advocacy, which means a lot of time in hospitals with sick people. Not being a medical professional, I'm doing that time in my normal clothes, with no covering of my hair or anything like that. Now, when I'm working with immunocompromised people, I do take the standard precautions - gloves, mask, and if they are in a severe state, the whole disposable outfit at the hospital. I myself have a wonky immune system, which I've known for years but have only just been diagnosed as having auto-immune issues. I'm also often on a scooter or in a wheelchair, which means that I'm at an ideal height to have my hair sneezed or coughed on. As I'm sure you know from working with sick animals, most creatures that have disabilities are more prone to getting sick, and more prone to getting BAD kinds of sick, so I'm working around all kinds of fun stuff. I think the hardest is probably around the sick kids...kids that sick tend to either get better or not make it to adulthood, and they tend not to have as good of socializing/control on things like covering coughs and sneezes. (and of course, those are the people I least want to be all in medical drag around, because they need some normalcy - it's a balancing act)

Which is to say, not letting myself get infected or carry infections has to be a priority for me in this. Everything I've read, and the doctors I've talked to, have all assured me that a basic shampoo is sufficient, though they had added that I could put in some tea tree oil or neem oil for peace of mind. I'm unfortunately sensitive to tea tree oil, and the smell of neem oil makes me ill, so I haven't been able to do that, but both of those oils are recognized by the National Institute of Health as having antibacterial, antiviral, and antiprotozoal action, so they're good stuff. Yes, you need to be thorough and work that shampoo down your length, which I know a great many LHCers don't do and say is hard on your hair. I've never had trouble with that, but my hair is tough and strong. My knowledge is admittedly mostly second-hand, but I've done some research into this, because the last thing I want to do is make one of my clients sick or heaven help me worse than that.

I did think of one other thing that may help with your drying/tangling issues. Can you do a thorough pre-wash oiling? Working some coconut or olive oil into your hair could be very helpful in preventing harsh stripping. What some people do is warm up the oil (not very much - even serious longhairs are typically using 1/4 c or less), apply it to all of their hair, toss on a shower cap or some clingfilm and a knit hat to keep it all warm, let it sit an hour or several hours, and then wash. It's a way of protecting the hair and adding moisture without changing what kind of shampoo you're using.

If you haven't tried it, I know a lot of people here like Aussie 3 Minute Miracle for a conditioner; it's a heavy, rich conditioner that may also be helpful.

[WoolSweater]

You said "I usually French braid it but that gets done over and over between each animal", but if the cleanliness of your hair is so important that you are absolutely required to wash it with a clarifying shampoo every day (as opposed to anything else that would clean your hair) why are you not washing your hair between each animal? You say that diseases can be transferred by hair, yet you wear your hair in such a way that animals are able to chew on/touch it. Hair issues aside, if this is as much of a problem as you say it is you need to find a way to cover your hair securely so that the animals you work with can't get at it. If it's not possible to cover your hair securely and this really is as serious as you suggest, this isn't the right time for you to be growing your hair.

You seem to be contradicting yourself a lot, which makes it very hard to offer any constructive advice.


Do you have a shower where you work? That's so unrealistic. We're a non-profit. We run solely on the goodwill of others. We don't get to go take showers between each animal. And really, please, if you would go back and read, there is no way I can cover my hair 100%. Besides, this whole sick animal thing is a total derailing to the original issue, which, where's my dead horse, but the tangling started *before* my job.

I don't like to sound like a saint, but here I (and my co-workers) are, helping sick animals that would have been euthanized, and I'm getting criticized for not doing it properly. You know what would keep my hair clean? Putting down an animal with one shot. But we don't do that, and I never would, so it's the hard way. We also do not sedate unless necessary, which means holding animals down. The animal is the ultimate reason I do any of what I do.
We're trying to do a good thing. Please don't tell me it's not being done good enough.


Edit; goodness! The French braid is the closest thing I can do to keep my hair out of the way. I take off my gloves, wash my hands, and re-do my hair. Then I put gloves back on. The gloves, however, do not withstand fangs and claws. Again, sorry I'm not meeting your safety standards, I'm doing the best I can with what the facility can afford.


Edit again; the animal gets cleansed, not us. Besides, it's their claws/flying rages (cats) that mess my hair up, which are very easy to wipe down with pet-safe cleaning cloths. They do just fine. My braid doesn't.

[WoolSweater]

I sincerely apologize if I'm coming off as patronizing! I do a lot of work in disability advocacy, which means a lot of time in hospitals with sick people. Not being a medical professional, I'm doing that time in my normal clothes, with no covering of my hair or anything like that. Now, when I'm working with immunocompromised people, I do take the standard precautions - gloves, mask, and if they are in a severe state, the whole disposable outfit at the hospital. I myself have a wonky immune system, which I've known for years but have only just been diagnosed as having auto-immune issues. I'm also often on a scooter or in a wheelchair, which means that I'm at an ideal height to have my hair sneezed or coughed on. As I'm sure you know from working with sick animals, most creatures that have disabilities are more prone to getting sick, and more prone to getting BAD kinds of sick, so I'm working around all kinds of fun stuff. I think the hardest is probably around the sick kids...kids that sick tend to either get better or not make it to adulthood, and they tend not to have as good of socializing/control on things like covering coughs and sneezes. (and of course, those are the people I least want to be all in medical drag around, because they need some normalcy - it's a balancing act)

Which is to say, not letting myself get infected or carry infections has to be a priority for me in this. Everything I've read, and the doctors I've talked to, have all assured me that a basic shampoo is sufficient, though they had added that I could put in some tea tree oil or neem oil for peace of mind. I'm unfortunately sensitive to tea tree oil, and the smell of neem oil makes me ill, so I haven't been able to do that, but both of those oils are recognized by the National Institute of Health as having antibacterial, antiviral, and antiprotozoal action, so they're good stuff. Yes, you need to be thorough and work that shampoo down your length, which I know a great many LHCers don't do and say is hard on your hair. I've never had trouble with that, but my hair is tough and strong. My knowledge is admittedly mostly second-hand, but I've done some research into this, because the last thing I want to do is make one of my clients sick or heaven help me worse than that.

I did think of one other thing that may help with your drying/tangling issues. Can you do a thorough pre-wash oiling? Working some coconut or olive oil into your hair could be very helpful in preventing harsh stripping. What some people do is warm up the oil (not very much - even serious longhairs are typically using 1/4 c or less), apply it to all of their hair, toss on a shower cap or some clingfilm and a knit hat to keep it all warm, let it sit an hour or several hours, and then wash. It's a way of protecting the hair and adding moisture without changing what kind of shampoo you're using.

If you haven't tried it, I know a lot of people here like Aussie 3 Minute Miracle for a conditioner; it's a heavy, rich conditioner that may also be helpful.


I want to love tea tree... unfortunately it does not love me. : ( You sound like what I do, except with people! Which, to me, is even harder. Dogs forget you gave them a shot within a minute of me letting them go. People probably remember for ages!

Thank you for all your information and time. I apologize I was snippy to you and... shoot, I can't look at the page prior... I will edit with her name. The job is mounds stressful and I don't even remember how it got brought up, but I pinky promise the tangling thing happened before the job turn with the ill animals.


Edit: to you and *Squiggy*, I am sorry for being snippy.

[BlazingHeart]

I can totally understand feeling a bit defensive! It probably felt like we were jumping down your throat, no matter how good our intentions were.

I work more on the legal side of things, so while I do get a lot more hospital time than your average person, a lot of my work is from my office. I end up doing work with the hospitals regarding making sure my clients are getting the care, respect, dignity, and rights that they are entitled to. I am not the one giving shots, which is a good thing because I am really and truly phobic of needles! But I make sure that people understand what their doctors are telling them and what their options are, and I make sure that the doctors understand their patients' priorities and...well, a lot of making sure that people with disabilities get treated as people rather than diseases and inconveniences.

The good news is that the advice on moisturizing and reducing tangles that you've gotten is all still good info, whether or not the trouble is new! Pre-wash oiling, more conditioner, maybe even some deep treatments, something to help with detangling like a coney conditioner (I'm a fan of Garnier Fructis's standard line) or a coney serum are all things that may help with the tangling. Not to mention the change in how you wash and comb your hair. When I was younger, I had bad tangle problems and used a spray detangler. I don't know how healthy those are for hair, but I do remember them being very helpful for removing tangles! I used to use Johnson and Johnson No More Tangles - looking at the ingredients, I don't see anything harmful unless your hair dislikes 'cones, but I'm no expert on hair-care ingredients.

Has changing the wash mechanics and combing mechanics helped any with the tangles?

Oh, and I had another thought. When you french-braid your hair, have you thought about tucking the braid? You just kind of make a hole at about your back hairline (so nape of neck) and push the lower part of the braid up into it, then use a couple of pins, a barrette, a stick, or some spin-pins to secure it in place. That'd make it a little more secure and safer from your patients without much more work. Here's a video on how to do it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSBAqxQCNKk.

[Squiggy]

Edit: to you and *Squiggy*, I am sorry for being snippy.

No worries, we high jacked your thread and tone/inflection still doesn't come across on the internet!

Do you wear a necklace often? I imagine you don't at work, but maybe after hours? I use to have a problem with the hair at the nape of my neck matting if I wore a necklace with the clasp to the back. I never used to detangle before washing and would have this awful mess to try and comb through after my shower. Now I wear my necklaces very unfashionably, with the clasp to the side or front, and always detangle my hair well before showering. Just a thought.

Also, I know those little shower cap things (lunch lady hair caps) do not stay on when you have animals trying to climb your head! BTDT. I'm wondering if something like a scrub cap or bandana around your head (pirates are so cool) might keep the animals from pulling out your braid. Doesn't address the tangling, but might save you the hassle of having to mess with your hair so much at work.

[jrmviola]

Ok you look/sound like you could be my hair double. Me and my dad have the same hair just different lengths. Mine is 47" long, his is super short guy hair. He washes every day, i wash every couple but reallly would perfer to every day. I use two shampoos, Fructis Garnier Clarifying shampoo, and recently switched to a Clay Minerals shampoo. I love both and used the clarifying for the past 7 years. Dad uses Suave Clarifying. He's used it...?.... 20-30 years? I used two products for a conditioner. Fructis Garnier 3 minute undo conditioner (this is the best product EVER for my hair) and then i use Olive oil or Coconut oil as needed, usualy once a week or so. I prefer Olive but i'm trying to use up the coconut. on my length i may use three or four (small) handfuls of conditioner in two stages. Follow directions on back, let it sit for 3 minutes at a time. I dont use both shampoos in the same wash but i'm equally happy with both. One (Fructis) has sufates and cones, the other is sulfates and cones free. Dad doesnt use anything besides shampoo but his hair is like an inch long. your hair may be just twisty enough that it is prone to tangle. You cant do much for that except not to "move it around" so much in your wash. my ends are like that when i braid. The more they "move" as i braide the more tangly and annoying they get. Hope that helps!

[Panth]

Responders, I'm not afraid for my wellbeing at all. I have animals at home at any number of time, and I work with illness. Just a bit peeved the PHDers are here to tell me I don't know my stuff. I don't need to know more about the diseases I work with, I work with them every single day. I know what they are, I see what they do, and I don't want a dog dropping dead on my carpet because it came in contact with something I brought home from work. I don't strip my hair because I'm worried about me, I'm worried about the animals. I know humans can't get parvo. It's other animals that are my concern. And please don't say it can't be transferred; it can. Some of the diseases can incubate, and you better believe each one of us working at this place has been the cause of another animal getting sick because we missed one spot when cleaning ourselves.

And those scientists who work with ebola? They wear layers upon layers of protective clothing, hair caps, the whole nine yards. I'm lucky if my scrub top doesn't get clawed off me by the end of the day.


I know you're trying to help, but it's coming off as patronizing and like I don't know anything. I'm one of the people who don't euthanize animals because they have a potentially deadly disease, and to tell me I don't know what I'm dealing with... I see it every day.

:soapbox:


Besides, I said any number of times my hair was tangling before I began with the extremely sick animals. But hey, if my washing methods are what's causing the matting up, animals>hair.

I'm sorry that you found my response patronising. However, although you said you work with sick animals, nowhere did you say that you also have animals at home. Of course, you would want to keep your pets as healthy as possible. However, if I don't know of their existence, I can't make advice based upon them. :flower:

[catasa]

I guess that you maybe have tried this already or that someone else has already mentioned it (sorry, I don´t have the time to go through the whole thread now) but what about a swmming/bathing cap? I e the tight fitting type that you use to avoid getting your hair wet when swimming/bathing? It would look kind of funny of course but I guess thait would be worth it if it helps :)

ETA: Or what about a skating type of helmet, maybe with a cap underneath? :) Sorry, I am not trying to make fun of you (even if it would probably look even more funny than just a swimming cap...) It sounds though like a helmet could maybe sometimes be a good idea also for protection reasons if you are struggling with large dogs?

Again, sorry if it has already been mentioned, and as I said, I am not trying to make fun of you or your work which I find very admirable, the helmet thought just popped up in my head... I hope you don´t take offense!