I bleach my hair but it turns out too light, can anyone help me?

[A007]

Hi ladies! I'v missed you! I'v been here before posted once or twice but I'v been all over the internet trying to find a forum that knows a lot about bleaching and hair coloring etc..and ran into one with a lot of nasty people on it! ugh...how horrible, I asked a question and the nasty women started going crazy on me saying that I wanted all these pro product recs. for myself..I NEVER said that, I basically asked if they had any recs. from Sally's and stores open to the public, those were my exact words..but they were a bunch of bullies so forget them, what a bunch of horrible people..it's sad.

Anyways, sorry about the rant, but I remember my time here and I enjoyed it you were all such lovely ladies, and I def. learn a lot just browsing each and every one of your posts :) so thank you!



Anywho, my question, because I bleach my hair and sometimes it turns out too white. I know there are stages of the color developing..pale yellow and then white, but even the pale yellow has white in it..it's nearly impossible to get just pale yellow.
Anywho, either way I think the result I get from bleach is too light and too bright/ highlighter like.

I think I need some kind of toning product.

The problem is last time I used a toner on my hair it turned pure grey! and I don't know why...

Does anyone know of a toning product that's kind of like...fool proof? if you know what I mean, like something that'll work on everyone..? :/
Is there such a thing?/ I know there's shampoo and I do use purple shampoo but it only gives me ashy results..and I'm still very light.

I want a natural looking blonde that's not ashy. and not white.

Do you ladies just have any suggestions at all of what I could do..
I'm all ears, thank you very much! :)

[Babzilla]

The most fool-proof toner is from Wella. It is with their liquid hair colors at Sally's and it is called T14. One part T14 to two parts 10 volume developer. 5-15 minutes processing time. Watch your ends in the mirror.

You could use a 10 volume or lower for your bleaching needs. You could also switch to a high lift hair color that lightens and tones in one step. But if your hair is a level 5 or darker, this method will not work.

The ION line has nice high lift blondes. They use a 30 volume peroxide.

[A007]

The most fool-proof toner is from Wella. It is with their liquid hair colors at Sally's and it is called T14. One part T14 to two parts 10 volume developer. 5-15 minutes processing time. Watch your ends in the mirror.

You could use a 10 volume or lower for your bleaching needs. You could also switch to a high lift hair color that lightens and tones in one step. But if your hair is a level 5 or darker, this method will not work.

The ION line has nice high lift blondes. They use a 30 volume peroxide.


Is it the one called Pale Ash Blonde? I'm not sure but I think I'v used this one in the past..this one or the 10A palest ash blonde and I don't know why my hair reacted the way it did and gave me grey results.. / so you're only supposed to leave it on for a few mins..so I guess you should apply this all over like a shampoo right? because there's no way I can go section by section slowly without it staying on too long...
**btw what can happen if it stays on too long?

My natural hair color is light-med. brown right in between, about a level 5-6.
I only use 10 volume+bleach and in one application it get's me to the lightest color no problem..I can go pure white even. I use Wella's bleach. I don't use anything higher than 10 vol. because 10 get's me more than light enough.

I have been thinking about using hair color..but I'm kind of trying to stay away from that because I feel like there's so many chemicals and stuff in it that makes me nervous..PPD etc..that I'm trying to avoid. / I have no problems with bleach..except the end result is too light.

I have also in the past tried mixing separate hair color+developer and again..grey or dark brown results, I don't know why..am I doing something wrong?
maybe my hair doesn't like when I mix my own color. :/

I will check out some toners and application method's..maybe some tips.

[A007]

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pain..I guess I will keep trying different toners..is all I can do. :/

[Babzilla]

Is it the one called Pale Ash Blonde? I'm not sure but I think I'v used this one in the past..this one or the 10A palest ash blonde and I don't know why my hair reacted the way it did and gave me grey results.. / so you're only supposed to leave it on for a few mins..so I guess you should apply this all over like a shampoo right? because there's no way I can go section by section slowly without it staying on too long...
**btw what can happen if it stays on too long?

My natural hair color is light-med. brown right in between, about a level 5-6.
I only use 10 volume+bleach and in one application it get's me to the lightest color no problem..I can go pure white even. I use Wella's bleach. I don't use anything higher than 10 vol. because 10 get's me more than light enough.

I have been thinking about using hair color..but I'm kind of trying to stay away from that because I feel like there's so many chemicals and stuff in it that makes me nervous..PPD etc..that I'm trying to avoid. / I have no problems with bleach..except the end result is too light.

I have also in the past tried mixing separate hair color+developer and again..grey or dark brown results, I don't know why..am I doing something wrong?
maybe my hair doesn't like when I mix my own color. :/

I will check out some toners and application method's..maybe some tips.
No, it's T14 and all their colors are DOUBLE STRENGTH, meaning if you put in 1:1 color:developer, you will get undesirable results. 75% of the people using this brand ARE DOING IT INCORRECTLY.

If you are using products from Sally's, you are using chemicals.

A high lift color had no more "chemicals" than any toner.

[Firefox7275]

Hi ladies! I'v missed you! I'v been here before posted once or twice but I'v been all over the internet trying to find a forum that knows a lot about bleaching and hair coloring etc..and ran into one with a lot of nasty people on it! ugh...how horrible, I asked a question and the nasty women started going crazy on me saying that I wanted all these pro product recs. for myself..I NEVER said that, I basically asked if they had any recs. from Sally's and stores open to the public, those were my exact words..but they were a bunch of bullies so forget them, what a bunch of horrible people..it's sad.

Anyways, sorry about the rant, but I remember my time here and I enjoyed it you were all such lovely ladies, and I def. learn a lot just browsing each and every one of your posts :) so thank you!



Anywho, my question, because I bleach my hair and sometimes it turns out too white. I know there are stages of the color developing..pale yellow and then white, but even the pale yellow has white in it..it's nearly impossible to get just pale yellow.
Anywho, either way I think the result I get from bleach is too light and too bright/ highlighter like.

I think I need some kind of toning product.

The problem is last time I used a toner on my hair it turned pure grey! and I don't know why...

Does anyone know of a toning product that's kind of like...fool proof? if you know what I mean, like something that'll work on everyone..? :/
Is there such a thing?/ I know there's shampoo and I do use purple shampoo but it only gives me ashy results..and I'm still very light.

I want a natural looking blonde that's not ashy. and not white.

Do you ladies just have any suggestions at all of what I could do..
I'm all ears, thank you very much! :)

Sounds like you are using products that are too potent and/ or leaving them to process too long, try a lower volume peroxide with your persulphate bleach and/ or less of the powder bleach. Hair that has bleached too light will likely be overly porous so can take up too much of the toner leaving a grey/ blue/ purple finish. Is there any reason you don't use a one step blonde box dye that gently lifts and tones in one hit? There are brands without PPD, the basic lifting 'chemicals' are the same as two part products (alkaline agents, peroxide etc).

Consider practicing on shed plughole hair instead of using your head as a laboratory, do factor in the accelerating effect of scalp heat. Also consider coconut oil treatments to reduce porosity and hydrolysed protein to even out porosity/ strengthen - both can be used before and after lightening.

[Macaroni]

Keep in mind that anything with the word ash in it is green based.

[A007]

I looked up at Sally's T14 is Pale Ash Blonde.

So you guys are saying the toners are double strength..is it possible they're too strong for me?

I do use a low volume peroxide I use the lowest, 10. it's all I need it does the job.

Maybe my hair is over porous..I do treatments on it though at twice a week, I use coconut oil and conditioner just leave it on my hair and it really helps too, sometimes I use protein treatments, avacado..

Hmm...if anything with the word ash in it is green based then why am I using ash toners?

Also, are there any toners that aren't so strong?

(I don't like box hair dye because it's very toxifying esp. L'oreal's the smell is too much for me, also I have tried brands like Garnier and they wouldn't lift enough, I even tried Garnier's bleach and it left me orange..which was weird)

[Firefox7275]

I looked up at Sally's T14 is Pale Ash Blonde.

So you guys are saying the toners are double strength..is it possible they're too strong for me?

I do use a low volume peroxide I use the lowest, 10. it's all I need it does the job.

Maybe my hair is over porous..I do treatments on it though at twice a week, I use coconut oil and conditioner just leave it on my hair and it really helps too, sometimes I use protein treatments, avacado..

Hmm...if anything with the word ash in it is green based then why am I using ash toners?

Also, are there any toners that aren't so strong?

(I don't like box hair dye because it's very toxifying esp. L'oreal's the smell is too much for me, also I have tried brands like Garnier and they wouldn't lift enough, I even tried Garnier's bleach and it left me orange..which was weird)

Try using less of the persulphate bleach powder, I'm guessing you are using a lot if you are on using 10 vol developer and still getting white hair.

You use coconut oil on wet hair? If so that won't penetrate properly (maybe not at all) since oil and water do not mix. The published research supporting coconut oil (penetration, reduced porosity, increased elasticity, protection from damage) is overnight to twenty four hour soaks on dry hair, then washed. Are your protein treatments hydrolysed?

[A007]

Try using less of the persulphate bleach powder, I'm guessing you are using a lot if you are on using 10 vol developer and still getting white hair.

You use coconut oil on wet hair? If so that won't penetrate properly (maybe not at all) since oil and water do not mix. The published research supporting coconut oil (penetration, reduced porosity, increased elasticity, protection from damage) is overnight to twenty four hour soaks on dry hair, then washed. Are your protein treatments hydrolysed?

Yes I must admit I do use a little extra bleach to make sure I get even application everywhere. I will try to use less, didn't know this could be a problem. thank you.

I use coconut oil on dry hair, always. I leave it on maybe up to 8 hours sometimes, I will try longer.

Yes, the last protein treatment I used did say it was hydrolysed, should I always get hydrolysed protein? / what about the egg mask, is that any good too?

[Firefox7275]

Yes I must admit I do use a little extra bleach to make sure I get even application everywhere. I will try to use less, didn't know this could be a problem. thank you.

I use coconut oil on dry hair, always. I leave it on maybe up to 8 hours sometimes, I will try longer.

Yes, the last protein treatment I used did say it was hydrolysed, should I always get hydrolysed protein? / what about the egg mask, is that any good too?

Yes always hydrolysed, whole protein is too large to penetrate. Whole egg is of little use as a protein treatment, if it has any effect it's far more likely down to the lipids.

[A007]

Yes always hydrolysed, whole protein is too large to penetrate. Whole egg is of little use as a protein treatment, if it has any effect it's far more likely down to the lipids.

Oh I meant egg whites...I think that's the part that you're supposed to use. I haven't done an egg treatment in a while though, and I heard some people use mayo and add extra virgin olive oil..it's just a big mess lol.. and very hard to rinse out because it all hardens and smells really bad.

[Firefox7275]

Oh I meant egg whites...I think that's the part that you're supposed to use. I haven't done an egg treatment in a while though, and I heard some people use mayo and add extra virgin olive oil..it's just a big mess lol.. and very hard to rinse out because it all hardens and smells really bad.

Egg white is still useless since the molecules are pretty large, it might coat and act as a film if it's not rinsed well much as it does as a temporary wrinkle tightening 'face mask' but it won't patch repair or penetrate hair AFAIK. There is a study on hydrolysed egg protein tho. Mayonnaise generally contains very little egg or other protein, it's an oil treatment (often a non penetrating polyunsaturate like sunflower): no it likely won't rinse out with plain water there aren't anywhere near enough emulsifiers (ingredients that mix oil and water).
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/app.34311/abstract

TBH most people who come up with strange DIY treatments have little to no understanding of the science (or pseudoscience). If you want a natural hydrolysed protein try gelatin: these two blogs are written by scientists and reference published research
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.co.uk/p/recipes-and-projects.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/protein-conditioners-for-hair-part-2-of_03.html

[A007]

Egg white is still useless since the molecules are pretty large, it might coat and act as a film if it's not rinsed well much as it does as a temporary wrinkle tightening 'face mask' but it won't patch repair or penetrate hair AFAIK. There is a study on hydrolysed egg protein tho. Mayonnaise generally contains very little egg or other protein, it's an oil treatment (often a non penetrating polyunsaturate like sunflower): no it likely won't rinse out with plain water there aren't anywhere near enough emulsifiers (ingredients that mix oil and water).
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/app.34311/abstract

TBH most people who come up with strange DIY treatments have little to no understanding of the science (or pseudoscience). If you want a natural hydrolysed protein try gelatin: these two blogs are written by scientists and reference published research
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.co.uk/p/recipes-and-projects.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/protein-conditioners-for-hair-part-2-of_03.html

Thank you very much for the info! I was just curious, will read up on it :)

[fairview]

Any permanent color can be used as a toner if 5 volume developer is used. Toners are applied to towel damp hair and left on for no more than 10 minutes usually but is definitely checked every couple minutes. The purpose of toners is to add color to refine the end result to a more desirable result. The use of toners is not confined to lifted hair but that is where it is most discussed. Toners add color for two reasons. The one everyone knows about is to eliminate the undesirable color in lifted hair. The other is to enhance the existing color.


I even tried Garnier's bleach and it left me orange..which was weird)

Orange is the dominant color at level . Orange is made up of red and yellow. Green neutralizes red so when an ash toner is applied to an orange result, yellow or blonde is what is left over.

Now you have a mixture of white and yellow. Okay when hair is lifted to true white and not what we call palest yellow (inside of a banana yellow or platinum blonde) the hair has been completely decolorized. Not only has 100% of the color been lifted out but the internal structure that holds the color has been destroyed and most of the cuticle has been damaged also. The short version of this is that hair that has been decolorized has been exponentially damaged and whatever toner or color that is applied will generally slide off the hair in about 6-8 weeks.

The second challenge here is how the color of the toner will react with the yellow. The existing color is called the contributing pigment. Red + yellow makes orange. Red + yellow (orange) + green (ash) which neutralizes the red makes yellow. Yellow + green (ash toner) will probably give you a greenish haze to your blonde.

Coloring hair isn't rocket science; it's basically everything we learned in grade school about primary colors and making colors from them.

When in doubt, do a strand test before making a full scalp application with a new and unproven product.

Just curious. Are you doing a full application to previously lifted hair. That is a big NO-NO!! Only the new growth is lifted. To eliminate any lines of demarcation, a soap cap with the bleach is used during the last 5-10 minutes to blend newly lifted to the previously lifted hair.

[A007]

..I thought Aphogee was the same as using eggs..I think it even has eggs in it..:/

[A007]

Any permanent color can be used as a toner if 5 volume developer is used. Toners are applied to towel damp hair and left on for no more than 10 minutes usually but is definitely checked every couple minutes. The purpose of toners is to add color to refine the end result to a more desirable result. The use of toners is not confined to lifted hair but that is where it is most discussed. Toners add color for two reasons. The one everyone knows about is to eliminate the undesirable color in lifted hair. The other is to enhance the existing color.



Orange is the dominant color at level . Orange is made up of red and yellow. Green neutralizes red so when an ash toner is applied to an orange result, yellow or blonde is what is left over.

Now you have a mixture of white and yellow. Okay when hair is lifted to true white and not what we call palest yellow (inside of a banana yellow or platinum blonde) the hair has been completely decolorized. Not only has 100% of the color been lifted out but the internal structure that holds the color has been destroyed and most of the cuticle has been damaged also. The short version of this is that hair that has been decolorized has been exponentially damaged and whatever toner or color that is applied will generally slide off the hair in about 6-8 weeks.

The second challenge here is how the color of the toner will react with the yellow. The existing color is called the contributing pigment. Red + yellow makes orange. Red + yellow (orange) + green (ash) which neutralizes the red makes yellow. Yellow + green (ash toner) could give you a blue tonal quality to your hair.

Coloring hair isn't rocket science; it's basically everything we learned in grade school about primary colors and making colors from them.

When in doubt, do a strand test before making a full scalp application with a new and unproven product.

Just curious. Are you doing a full application to previously lifted hair. That is a big NO-NO!! Only the new growth is lifted. To eliminate any lines of demarcation, a soap cap with the bleach is used during the last 5-10 minutes to blend newly lifted to the previously lifted hair.

I don't use the Garnier bleach anymore, I use Wella's Wellite bleach, the problem I have with that is it leaves me too white. I want 1-2 shades darker and I also want it toned down from the brightness. my hair after bleaching look's like a highlighter color..+ white.

/ No I def. don't touch the hair that's already been bleached, I only do my regrowth, always.

So I should try an ash toner after all? I will check it out and do a strand test, and apply to wet hair.

[Firefox7275]

..I thought Aphogee was the same as using eggs..I think it even has eggs in it..:/

Proteins/ amino acids (building blocks of protein) emboldened
"Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, Behenamidopropylamine Behenatem Stearolkonium Chloride, Cetrimonium Chloride, Cocodimonium Hydrolyzed Hair Keratin, Hydrolzed Mucopolysac Charides, Sodium Coco Collagen Amino Acids, Wheat Germ Fatty Acids, Linoleic Acid, Linolenic Acid, Arachidonic Acid, Squalane, Avocado Oil, Acetimide MEA, Panthenol, Wheat Germ Oil, Jojoba Oil, Tocopherol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Sulfur, Amodimethicone, Polyquaternium 10, Linoleamidopropyl PG Dimonium, Chloride Phosphate, Tallowtrimonium Chloride, Nonoxynol 10, Cocoyl Sarcosine, Sorbitol, Fragrance, Imidazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben."
http://www.sallybeauty.com/keratin-reconstructor/APHOGE8,default,pd.html

"Deionized Water, Hydrolyzed Animal Protein, Magnesium Sulfate, Citric Acid, Ethylene Urea, Dimethylol Urea, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Magnesium Carbonate, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance."
http://www.sallybeauty.com/protein-hair-treatment/APHOGE4,default,pd.html

[A007]

Alright, so I'll get the T14 toner, apply to damp hair 5-10 mins. keep checking.
My roots are slowly coming in so I'll wait until I have to bleach my roots and then apply toner,
Question: how long after I bleach can I apply the toner?

[A007]

Ok, just to be 100% sure/ I'm about to place an order, this is the toner I need to get right?

http://www.sallybeauty.com/wella-hair-color/SBS-800274,default,pd.html

[Firefox7275]

You can apply immediately after cleansing out the bleach but do bear in mind your hair will be most porous then, and that doesn't leave you any time for running strand tests.

[A007]

You can apply immediately after cleansing out the bleach but do bear in mind your hair will be most porous then, and that doesn't leave you any time for running strand tests.

Yea that's true, so I'll prob. just wait a few days/ after treatments.
and is that the correct toner I need to purchase?

-Thank you.

[A007]

Guys I'm really nervous! because I don't want grey hair! which I know the T14 toner will leave me with. I just want to cancel out the orange, and make my hair 1 shade darker and get rid of white color. I want a nice gold blonde.
...I'v been googling results of this toner and everyone has ashy-grey hair. =(