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Lady SleepsAlot
September 21st, 2013, 11:41 AM
Hello! I'm new and I'm in desperate need of help.

I'm not sure where to start, I'm just going to try and explain what the problem is. I thought I had frizz. After I've washed my hair I let it air-dry, and it just poofs up like you wouldn't believe. I tried some anti-frizz products, serums, oils, deep-conditioners, special shampoo and conditioners, you name it. Nothing helped, not even a little.

I did a search online trying to find what the actual cause of the frizz was and one website suggested that frizz is not "natural", that it's damaged hair, which made me start looking closer at my hair.

I discovered that some of my strands seem extremely messed up, they grow almost curly, and when I examined the frizzy strands closer I felt that the thickness is irregular, so I cut off one strand to look at it and it really is thin-thick-thin-thick and so on. Most of my hair is almost entirely straight, the strands are smooth to the touch, but a massive amount of strands, mostly on the top layer is curly and/or thin-thick.

When I googled what could cause this I found heat-damage as the answer, but I do not use a hairdryer, and I do not use a straightener.

My routine is washing with head and shoulders because I'm prone to dandruff, I use a cheap conditioner at the moment because many of the more expensive ones have too much perfume which I'm allergic to and the cheap one leaves my hair in the best condition after washing than expensive ones. I'd like to point out that for some time I used fructis strenght shampoo and conditioner, it left my hair in horrid shape. I also used a keratin set from L'oreal if I remember correctly, not much difference there either. I've tried using aussie 3 minute conditioner even though the smell makes me sneeze like crazy and my hair still dries like this.

I use an old t-shirt to dab excess water from my hair after showering and I let it airdry. I've been using the tangle teezer brush but I could still feel hairs breaking (even if I start brushing from the bottom working my way up) so I purchased a boar hair brush recently. Before those I just used a paddle brush and I've noticed no difference in my hair after making the switch.

The only thing I do that I know damages my hair is color it.

I've been doing search and destroy through my hair and I've been cutting or pulling the damaged hairs out, but I can't keep doing it, I'll end up with bald spots and I know it's probably not healthy to pull them out.. I'm just desperate because I'm not a pretty person, the only thing I've ever been confident in is my hair, and I want it to be healthy..

When my hair dries it looks so awful.. it feels like running my hand over a carpet or something. It gets less messy as time goes and I only wash once a week.

I have a photo of two of my strands here that I hope can help identify the problem:
http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_7203.jpg

I hope someone can help me, thanks so much for your time!

Flor
September 21st, 2013, 11:53 AM
I actually have a very similar issue, but I've only recently pinpointed it and changed a few things in my hair care routine, so I'm waiting to see what happens in 6 months from now. So far my guess is - sun damage and elastics (I wore my hair in a ponytail 24/7 for years). It has to be environmental or mechanical, because it's really only the top layer of my hair that does this. Those kinky hairs of mine are really crazy looking compared to the rest of it. So I've switched to braids and one stick buns, I made a satin pillow case to sleep on, but I'm still trying to figure how to protect hair from sun and wind.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 21st, 2013, 11:58 AM
I forgot to add I always have my hair in a bun or a braid, my hair tangles SO easily that I can't afford to have it flying freely, though I'd love to have my hair down for once :/
It's mostly only on my top layer as well, as far as I can tell at least. My hair gets like that when the air is moist and it gets static during the winter, so I'm worried my hair can be dry too. It feels dry and suddenly it gets oily, so I'm probably doing several things wrong right now.

Panth
September 21st, 2013, 12:11 PM
May I suggest your hair strands are not "extremely messed up" they're just simply... curly!

If you've got strands like in the photo, there's absolutely no WAY that you are a 1b. (It is possible to have multiple textures on one head - perhaps this is what you have?).

"Frizz" can be a symptom of damage. However, the other really common cause of frizz is wavy/curly hair that is mis-treated (i.e. treated like you should treat straight hair). I suggest you give the Curly Girl method a go.

Vampyria
September 21st, 2013, 12:16 PM
Your hair is probably wavier than 1b, hence the frizz. The picture you posted shows coarse and fine strands and I have pretty similar ones on my head. Coarse and frizzy hair is not damage, it mostly indicates wavier hair. Head & Shoulders is a really harsh shampoo (contains SLS) and can be drying and dyeing can be really damaging also. I agree with Panth on Curly girl method, maybe try some natural oils-like coconut, avocado (if you haven't yet), to encourage your texture and minimize the frizz.

itdontmatter48
September 21st, 2013, 12:21 PM
I have found aloe vera juice in a spray bottle to help with 'frizz' along with a protein conditioner used 1x per week to be helping.

Dandelion6
September 21st, 2013, 12:25 PM
'"Frizz" can be a symptom of damage. However, the other really common cause of frizz is wavy/curly hair that is mis-treated (i.e. treated like you should treat straight hair). I suggest you give the Curly Girl method a go.'

--This is true. I don't think that frizz is necessarily damage. Would you be able to post another picture of the back of your head showing all your hair?

Anje
September 21st, 2013, 12:25 PM
Just adding my voice to the mix. Sounds like you've got curly hair. Frizz is much more often a sign of unrecognized or brushed curls than anything else. Treat it like curls (Curly Girl method is a great place to start), and I think you'll be much happier with your hair.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 21st, 2013, 12:36 PM
Wow thanks for all the replies! I did think that maybe I had some curls going on, but I didn't think that curly hair had strands that were thick and thin? (in one single strand I mean)
It's already night here so a decent photo of my entire hair will have to wait but I'm going to post one tomorrow.
I'll look into the curly girl method, I'm a complete newbie so I have no idea what that means ;)

stachelbeere
September 21st, 2013, 03:04 PM
I know the weird strands you are talking about - I have a couple of these on my head as well and I am definitely a 1b - no hint of a wave or anything on my head unfortunately!
but said hairs behave 'nicely' and don't poof up or anything - maybe it's just that I have so few of them so they just blend with the rest nicely. I read somewhere on this thread that they are referred to as 'hair pubes.' and they are also thick-thin, it's really weird. they are also sort of 'flat' as if the hair strands aren't 'round' in diameter if you know what I mean.

I'm subscribing as I am interested what others have to say :D

Lady SleepsAlot
September 21st, 2013, 04:37 PM
Yes! I was going to describe these hairs as pube-like but thought it might sound odd, lol ^^ I don't really have any waves, when I had really short hair the left side of my hair would "curl" towards my face and the right side would curl to the right, but no actual curls or waves.. I could live with the frizziness, but the thing is that it's really coarse to the touch, like pubes, and I really want soft hair. All the strands I've described as healthy have a nice shine to them and are so soft to the touch.
I never had these weird hairs as a kid, I don't know when I started getting them, I just know I'm getting more of them and they are worsening.

stachelbeere
September 21st, 2013, 04:58 PM
Yes! I was going to describe these hairs as pube-like but thought it might sound odd, lol ^^ I don't really have any waves, when I had really short hair the left side of my hair would "curl" towards my face and the right side would curl to the right, but no actual curls or waves.. I could live with the frizziness, but the thing is that it's really coarse to the touch, like pubes, and I really want soft hair. All the strands I've described as healthy have a nice shine to them and are so soft to the touch.
I never had these weird hairs as a kid, I don't know when I started getting them, I just know I'm getting more of them and they are worsening.

yes! When I was a teenager and had chin length hair my hair would also flick in on one side and out on the other hehe. Now my hair is straight and the only thing I have is slight body wave; the ends sort of very slightly 'curl in' - it's visible in this picture:

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/stachelbeere/hair/ash%20brown%20roots%20and%20henna/hair%20length%20shots/_0016210copy_mini_zps9df362e8.jpg

is your hair anything like this as well? do you have any pictures of your whole head of hair?

hmmm maybe your hair texture is changing? I used to have a poofy triangle head when I was an 11-year old - I'm sure I must have had undetected waves back then. I also stumbled upon a TLHC member recently who had curly and straight hair at the same time - it looked lovely and soft to me - and very unique in a good way :D

come to think of it - babies usually have fine hair (well, at least caucasian babies do) and maybe the older you get the thicker individual strands become? just a theory.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 21st, 2013, 05:08 PM
Our hair looks extremely similar! But yours looks a lot healthier than mine ;P A bit calmer. I'm going to get a picture up tomorrow, but since I keep my hair in a bun it will look wavier than it really is.
I really hope my texture isn't changing :S

jacqueline101
September 21st, 2013, 05:14 PM
I agree maybe the curly hair method is better for your hair. I'd also try giving up hair dye.

CurlMonster
September 21st, 2013, 06:55 PM
There have been some other threads in the past of people asking about those 'hair pubes' and it was decided that it's very normal to have some of those mixed in with the rest of your hair, I know I have some hairs that are like that. I remember once one of those hairs had fallen out and I handed it to my brother and told him to feel it - he looked shocked and said that it felt synthetic! :spitting:

Here's another thread about these wiry hairs: http://http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=112131 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=112131)

Anyway, I agree with others that your 'frizzy' hair may just be curly or wavy hair that's being treated like straight hair, however I wouldn't worry about the 'hair pubes' because they're normal!

jessj48
September 22nd, 2013, 03:09 AM
Wow! I get those weird hairs too and I thought it was due to damage from straightening/rough treatment. Curly kind of makes sense though because the hairs are usually kinked all the way down, not just on the ends.

SleepyTangles
September 22nd, 2013, 03:53 AM
I have mostly fine and wavy hair, but with some coarse, wurly hair in it! Your hair sounds a lot like mine.
I think its natural, some hair are more "bristley", some more silky. I also have big frizz problems...

ACV rinses always helped my hair to behave better,
Also, clarifying followed by a cone-less deep treatment may help you understand your texture better....

stachelbeere
September 22nd, 2013, 04:06 AM
Our hair looks extremely similar! But yours looks a lot healthier than mine ;P A bit calmer. I'm going to get a picture up tomorrow, but since I keep my hair in a bun it will look wavier than it really is.
I really hope my texture isn't changing :S

Hello hair twin :D welcome!

I don't pay attention to individual hair strands that much anymore so I don't really 'notice' hair pubes but for the sake of this thread I checked and found out that I have one/ a few HPs in quiet a lot of sections that grow on the upper part of my hair (forehead to crown area). They are not as curly as yours though, they are wiry and straight - mostly. sometimes they are a bit wavy. My under layer is very fine - oh and I also forgot to mention a 'secret' of my BF about my hair that I wasn't aware of - when I put my hair up in a top knot a tiny section on my nape hair that is too short for the knot is curly. He loved the fact that I didn't know about it hehe :D I checked and the sections that are a little above are a little bit wavy.

But anyway; post a picture so we can have a closer look :o
Maybe you should try the curly girl method a few times and see what it does to your hair? My hair got a lot healthier after I switched to WO. The picture I posted is from 3 days ago when I did an egg yolk-honey-lemon mask and it stripped my hairs from all sebum that was there - so for the last few days my hair has been a lot more voluminous and 'dry' than normaly, but it feels soft and healthy (a protein mask was what my hair needed)

shushifruit
September 22nd, 2013, 05:07 AM
That top strand doesn't look like it's fluctuating thickness and curves are from damage, it looks more like you've got combination hair.
I've known a few people with that hair type.
Some of the strands are smooth and straight from root to tip, while others are in various stages of wavy and almost in spirals in places.

You might try looking up "caring for/styling combination hair".
I also suggest a bit of trial and error with oils, ACV and other home remedies or simple products. This way, you know exactly what ingredients you're applying and will be able to steer clear of anything that irritates your skin.

As for shampoos and conditioners causing problems, I can offer a personal experience: I went from cheap AND expensive shampoos to washing my hair with diluted Baby Body/Hair Wash and never looked back. I was a bit of a greaseball during the first few week of switching but after that, my hair and scalp have never been healthier.
Also, I use Alba Botanica Kukui Nut Body Cream (it's for skin but it's great on hair, too) sparingly as a leave-in conditioner/pomade/frizz control. It's got a light, fruity dessert smell to it but hasn't irritated my skin at all.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 22nd, 2013, 05:35 AM
I finally got a picture of my entire hair!
It's been at least 4 days since I washed it, so the fuzz is probably 80% calmer than after washing, and I've been keeping my hair in a bun so it has shaped a bit because of that, but here it is:
http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_6604.jpg

and here is a closeup:
http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/closeup.jpg

Next time I was I will try conditioner only.
I forgot to add that after washing, and air-dry, if I add oils or hair lotion, it will appear calmer for a few minutes and then frizz up worse than before. I'm planning on getting coconut oil on my next paycheck to test that out!

Panth
September 22nd, 2013, 05:55 AM
I finally got a picture of my entire hair!
It's been at least 4 days since I washed it, so the fuzz is probably 80% calmer than after washing, and I've been keeping my hair in a bun so it has shaped a bit because of that, but here it is: <snip>

and here is a closeup: <snip>

Next time I was I will try conditioner only.
I forgot to add that after washing, and air-dry, if I add oils or hair lotion, it will appear calmer for a few minutes and then frizz up worse than before. I'm planning on getting coconut oil on my next paycheck to test that out!

TBH, that looks fairly normal to me. Rather like mine, except for colour. I wouldn't be too worried. (Of course, we can't make a perfect judgement from hair that has been bunned, etc. - to do a perfect hairtyping you need to do the proper prep (i.e. shampoo, don't add any conditioner or other product, let it air dry with no touching, combing, brushing or other manipulation, photo it ... then jump back in the shower and wash your hair normally or add conditioner or whatever).)

From the whole-hair photos it doesn't look like you have particularly wavey/curly hair (although, as I said, that judgement may be incorrect due to the bunning, etc.). I suggest you look up "combination hair" - i.e. when one has multiple textures on one head.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 22nd, 2013, 06:02 AM
I'm planning on not touching my hair after I've washed it next time and take a photo, I didn't know I shouldn't use conditioner when checking the natural state of my hair though it sounds really logical now that I think about it :P
I'm terrible at touching my hair after washing it, so that will be hard :)

Flor
September 22nd, 2013, 06:44 AM
I thought I'd throw mine in here as well!

http://i41.tinypic.com/34gaeex.jpg
Washed with diluted SLES shampoo (I very rarely do that, it's mostly shampoo bars now, so basically it's the equivalent of clarifying for me), combed, looks more straight than it usually is.

It's actually quite easy to spot those hairs, because a lot of them also happen to be gray (dyed with henna, so coppery on photo), but not all of it. It's really not curly by any means, it's all crazy, bent, vary in thickness every inch along to the length. My guess it's the accumulative sun or mechanical (pulling pressure) damage to the follicle. Or simply the perks of growing older? ;) FYI, I have very few "normal" gray hairs, most of mine are this crazy type (which really doesn't help to make them less obvious *facepalm*).

They are definitely more pron to damage as well, because most of my S&D has to be done on that top layer. I don't find any splits or white dotted broken hairs in the bottom layers. For long time I thought I never got split or broken ends at all, because I was only looking at the very ends, but it was all sitting on top.

My uncut hair (shedding re-growths) does have a curly pattern to it at the very ends, probably up to 3a/3b, but those look and feel very different. I'm looking forward to seeing more of those becoming dominant in the overall appearance as my hair grows longer.

This is closer to what my hair looks like on daily basis:
http://i41.tinypic.com/347bay9.jpg
Shampoo bar wash, vinegar rinse, tangle-teaser brushed (much better at preserving the wavy pattern).

Lady SleepsAlot
September 22nd, 2013, 07:23 AM
I just realized how matte my hair looks compared to yours :S I love your hair Flor <3 I've been thinking of trying a vinegar rinse, I just haven't gotten around to it. I tried using egg in my hair and noticed no difference at all from regular washing :/

I really don't feel my photos show how bad my hair really is, I'm almost tempted to just wash with water today to get a proper picture up.
Honestly I'm terrified that these hairs will continue to multiply as I grow older. I really don't want to run my hand through my hair and have it feel like pubes :(

Flor
September 22nd, 2013, 08:12 AM
I just realized how matte my hair looks compared to yours :S I love your hair Flor <3 I've been thinking of trying a vinegar rinse, I just haven't gotten around to it. I tried using egg in my hair and noticed no difference at all from regular washing :/

Try taking a picture with flash next time *wink wink*! My diffused light/shadow hair is nowhere near as shiny.

Eggs don't do much for me either (except make hair smell of eggs), but vinegar is really awesome!

Vampyria
September 22nd, 2013, 08:51 AM
Seeing the pictures it doesn't really look like damage to me, might be a bit dry, but it does look like it has some wavy potential.

Anje
September 22nd, 2013, 09:22 AM
It'll be interesting to see hairtyping-type photos (wash hair, comb with conditioner in if it needs detangled, rinse, dry without touching hair at all), but your initial shots look a LOT like my hair. Mine's pretty combination, even within the same strand; most new growth starts off as curly, then settles down to a loose lazy wave after a few inches. And I've got some thick-thin strands, even without any harsh treatment. It's just how they grow.

Moisturizing the heck out of it helps, in my case. Not shampooing does a lot to keep the frizzy baby hairs calm, and CO tends to be good for those of us who get flakes because our scalps are dry.

Do you use chemical colors on your hair, or are we seeing something like Manic Panic on virgin hair here? A lot of the standard box dyes and bleaching can lead to damage and dullness, but those little pots of crazy colors aren't the least damaging (until you decide to bleach to make them brighter).

Lady SleepsAlot
September 22nd, 2013, 10:26 AM
My hair feels dry, but after a while it gets oily, especially on the scalp. The tips are almost always dry, no matter what I do :/

Last time I colored my hair I used Oila from Garnier which was a complete failure. I have tiny baby hairs around my entire face and the color didn't take at all there, and there were several spots on the rest of my head where it didn't take. I usually use Viva if I remember correctly. I recently played with the idea of going lighter, maybe a strawberry blonde, but I don't think my hair could handle bleaching.

stachelbeere
September 22nd, 2013, 11:16 AM
Lady SleepsAlot your hair is really beautiful!!! maybe prewash oiling would sort your hair out and make it less poofy? I don't use coconut oil, my hair prefers EVOO.

Vampyria
September 22nd, 2013, 11:55 AM
My hair feels dry, but after a while it gets oily, especially on the scalp. The tips are almost always dry, no matter what I do :/
That are mostly symptoms of using a harsh shampoo I think. Scalp gets oily faster and ends get dry. Have you considered hennaing your hair to get red? It's not damaging, but doesn't lighten (can even get darker, if you use pure henna), so it doesn't end up really bright if your hair is darker.

spidermom
September 22nd, 2013, 12:31 PM
It's normal to have hairs of varying thickness and a mix of curly/wavy/straight. I also have thick/thin hairs like you describe and hairs that are just weirdly wonky - not curly, not wavy, not straight, just kind of crushed-looking. And what the heck is up with this hair?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/2013-2-9024_zps17a8695c.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/spidermom/media/2013-2-9024_zps17a8695c.jpg.html)

Hair is weird. I agree with advice to stop brushing it. Try combing conditioner through in the shower, rinse, then allow to air dry without touching it and without messing it around too much.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 22nd, 2013, 12:36 PM
I coated my hair with massive amounts of argan oil the last 4 times I washed my hair and it did nothing to help the poof :/ I kept it in my hair for a while before washing it.

I've always had issues with my scalp, for a while when I was younger I got these almost scab-like things all over, but I grew out of that luckily. Now I can get itchy scalp and varying degrees of dandruff, it seems to get worse with colder weather but that could be a coincidence.

I'm absolutely going to change my shampoo since everyone seems to agree that head and shoulders is a bad choice :P I did try a tea tree oil shampoo that cost me an arm and a leg, it felt sooo nice on my scalp with that minty smell, but left my hair so dry, and the itchiness came after a couple of days anyway.

I'm going to look into henna soon :) My natural color is sort of.. colorless I think. It's almost gray, like in between dark blonde and light brown. I dont need my hair to be so red that it glows, lol ^^

catasa
September 22nd, 2013, 12:53 PM
I think you have beautiful hair :) I also have those wiry strange hairs on the top layer, and I have rather much of a combination hair I think, underlayers rather straightish and top layers more wavy/spirally.

Anyway - is it possible that your hair is over-moisturized? I ask because it has kind of similar symptoms as dry hair does so it is really easy to miss, and after years of struggling I have come to the (hesitant) conclusion that maybe mine is. I also tried all kinds of conditioners/serums/oils/deep treatments etc and nothing helped with the frizz/poofiness/coarsey feeling. So one day I took the plunge and started to skip conditioner completely (clarified as well), just using some drops of pure mineral oil on my lengths and canopy on dripping wet hair as leave-in. And my hair started to keep together into at least good-enough-looking waves and spirals, and felt really clean, nice and soft. So now I never do deep treatments except for protein treatments every 3-4 weeks, I avoid all oils other than mineral oil, and I never use conditioner...

I realize that this routine probably isn´t good for most people, but maybe it is worth a try at least? Normal shampoo/Head and shoulders may be too harsh with it though (I wash with a diluted non-SLS shampoo with some ACV added), so maybe you would have to try another shampoo as well.

Water quality may also be an issue - I have hard/calcium-rich water which is really making the frizziness/coarseness worse I think, hence my ACV-shampoo mix to try to neutralize it a little at least.

Good luck! :blossom:

HintOfMint
September 22nd, 2013, 12:58 PM
I actually have a lot of those kinky hairs. They're rough, very curly but in an irregular way, and go from thin to thick repeatedly over the length. Frankly, I've found that they just grow out of my scalp that way, and they're perfectly natural, nothing to do with damage. Yeah they're frizzy and annoying, but it's not damage.

Wasy
September 22nd, 2013, 01:02 PM
avon do a really good serum called lotus sheild, try that :)

spidermom
September 22nd, 2013, 01:20 PM
I also get so many surface fluffies that my hair often looks more like a cloud than hair. What I usually do is bun or braid my hair, then rub some aloe vera gel (the clear kind, not the green kind) or styling gel between wet palms (it really works a lot better if I get my palms wet first), then rub my palms over the surface of my hair to calm the fluffies. It really helps! But only as long as I don't comb or brush through my hair.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 22nd, 2013, 01:31 PM
I'm getting so many awesome tips here! I'm feeling more hopeful now, really, thanks everyone!
over-moisturized, wow, there's an idea..

If I decide to try something, let's say conditioner only, or water only, will I notice any difference right away or do I have to wait a period of time for everything to "normalize" if that makes any sense? I've read a little bit about no poo method in the past and I remember it said it could take a long while before the effects showed.

I'm definitely getting aloe vera gel :)

cranberrymoonz
September 22nd, 2013, 02:07 PM
Your hair doesn't get curly because it's damaged. It's more likely that you are a curly with hair that is damaged and brushed out, explaining the straight strands. Try the Curly Girl method and see if the frizz stops. Also, only comb your hair just before or in the shower.

Pinpointing the damage:
Colouring: when your hair dye contains peroxide this is very damaging. (Use henna, senna or indigo instead.)
Washing: Try and find an anti-dandruff shampoo that does not contain sodium lauryl sulfate. This is a very harsh detergent that dries out your hair. Also check frequency, don't wash your hair every day.

If your hair is fragile, it will be easily damaged so you'll have to be extra careful. Some people's hair just can't handle as much stress as others can.

spidermom
September 22nd, 2013, 02:07 PM
Generally you need to give anything new at least two weeks unless you get an immediate bad result. The only exception would be water only or no wash/sebum only methods. It can take a long time for your scalp to accept the change and normalize, which was never worth it to me. My method is to wash about every 4 days with diluted shampoo to scalp only, rinse, then conditioner massaged through length only, rinse. I also use an argan oil/coney leave-in to length only and gel as described to calm surface frizzies so that my style looks more smooth and polished, less like a homeless bag-lady with uncombed, all-over-the-place hair. (P.S. - left natural, my hair makes for a good witch look, like I style my hair by doing loop-do-loops on my broomstick)

newbeginning
September 22nd, 2013, 05:02 PM
My hair is coarse and wavy. It is prone to frizz and I also have an oily scalp and dry ends. What helps me is to CWC (condition/wash/condition) with an SLS shampoo and a silicone filled conditioner. I also put jojoba oil on the ends to help the frizz when my hair is damp/dry.

I agree with others that your hair is probably more wavy/curly than you thought. I just know what works for me with having a similar hair type to yours but maybe what I do might help you.

Firefox7275
September 23rd, 2013, 01:07 AM
Hello! I'm new and I'm in desperate need of help.

I'm not sure where to start, I'm just going to try and explain what the problem is. I thought I had frizz. After I've washed my hair I let it air-dry, and it just poofs up like you wouldn't believe. I tried some anti-frizz products, serums, oils, deep-conditioners, special shampoo and conditioners, you name it. Nothing helped, not even a little.

I did a search online trying to find what the actual cause of the frizz was and one website suggested that frizz is not "natural", that it's damaged hair, which made me start looking closer at my hair.

I discovered that some of my strands seem extremely messed up, they grow almost curly, and when I examined the frizzy strands closer I felt that the thickness is irregular, so I cut off one strand to look at it and it really is thin-thick-thin-thick and so on. Most of my hair is almost entirely straight, the strands are smooth to the touch, but a massive amount of strands, mostly on the top layer is curly and/or thin-thick.

When I googled what could cause this I found heat-damage as the answer, but I do not use a hairdryer, and I do not use a straightener.

My routine is washing with head and shoulders because I'm prone to dandruff, I use a cheap conditioner at the moment because many of the more expensive ones have too much perfume which I'm allergic to and the cheap one leaves my hair in the best condition after washing than expensive ones. I'd like to point out that for some time I used fructis strenght shampoo and conditioner, it left my hair in horrid shape. I also used a keratin set from L'oreal if I remember correctly, not much difference there either. I've tried using aussie 3 minute conditioner even though the smell makes me sneeze like crazy and my hair still dries like this.

I use an old t-shirt to dab excess water from my hair after showering and I let it airdry. I've been using the tangle teezer brush but I could still feel hairs breaking (even if I start brushing from the bottom working my way up) so I purchased a boar hair brush recently. Before those I just used a paddle brush and I've noticed no difference in my hair after making the switch.

The only thing I do that I know damages my hair is color it.

I've been doing search and destroy through my hair and I've been cutting or pulling the damaged hairs out, but I can't keep doing it, I'll end up with bald spots and I know it's probably not healthy to pull them out.. I'm just desperate because I'm not a pretty person, the only thing I've ever been confident in is my hair, and I want it to be healthy..

When my hair dries it looks so awful.. it feels like running my hand over a carpet or something. It gets less messy as time goes and I only wash once a week.

<snip>

I hope someone can help me, thanks so much for your time!

Welcome!

Another vote for wavy-curly.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2011/05/curly-vs-kinky-what-is-difference.html
Stop brushing your hair, try the Curly Girl method, use leave in conditioner on very wet hair. Are you 'refreshing' the length every time you dye? That can cause a lot of damage over time, making hair more porous, more prone to frizzing due to absorbing water from the atmosphere and the change in electrical charge on the hair.

What do you mean by dandruff, what is the medical diagnosis? Please do not switch to water only or conditioner-washing until you have a diagnosis, this could very easily worsen the problem if you have seborrhoeic dermatitis. Also be careful with oils on or close to your scalp, again these can worsen some skin disorders. Your scalp issues may also be being triggered or worsened by the box dye, these are highly alkaline so destroy the protective acid mantle/ skin flora.

You would be wise to avoid sulphate surfactants (in most commercial shampoos) for the sake of skin and hair, sulphates thin and damage even healthy skin making it more prone to reacting to other compounds. Since quitting sulphates and other anionic surfactants, my atopic eczema vanished and I have had only one episode of contact dermatitis (to a prescription eye drop known for irritancy). Sulphates are also bad for wavy-curly or porous hair.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair?page=4
http://www.eczema.org/aqeous

Proven beneficial ingredients for porous, colour treated hair include coconut oil, hydrolysed protein, ceramides, 18-MEA and panthenol. Always protect colour treated hair from sun damage with a close weave hat or UV Buff.

Firefox7275
September 23rd, 2013, 01:18 AM
Moisturizing the heck out of it helps, in my case. Not shampooing does a lot to keep the frizzy baby hairs calm, and CO tends to be good for those of us who get flakes because our scalps are dry.


Sorry but this is misleading. The most common flaky scalp condition is seborrhoeic dermatitis AKA greasy dandruff, atopic eczema or contact dermatitis are not unusual, xerosis (simple dry skin) is down at the bottom of the list with psoriasis. SD can easily be worsened by conditioner only washing, improvements in any of the common scalp disorders are more likely to be down to dropping harsh surfactants that thin and irritate the skin than 'moisturising' with the conditioner.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 23rd, 2013, 09:15 AM
I just washed my hair with water only, and am trying so hard not to touch it at all until it's dry. Then I will finally get a photo of my untouched hair up! My hair dries super slow though.

I don't color my hair very often, maybe 4-5 times a year. In the last year or so I stopped touching up my hair when coloring, but I realize that my length is probably still damaged from touchups..

Dandruff is just what I call it, I have never gotten a diagnosis. My flakes are white, no hairdresser have ever commented on it. I do have a lot of allergies, and my aunt has psoriasis, but I don't think that's what I have. I did have atopic eczema on my wrists as a kid but luckily grew out of that.

The first link you posted, my weird hairs sound a lot like kinky hairs. Lol, I love that XD
I think I have a lot of trial and error in my future, but I have lots of new info to help me along! I've decided to ditch my head and shoulders shampoo for sure :)

Firefox7275
September 23rd, 2013, 09:33 AM
I just washed my hair with water only, and am trying so hard not to touch it at all until it's dry. Then I will finally get a photo of my untouched hair up! My hair dries super slow though.

I don't color my hair very often, maybe 4-5 times a year. In the last year or so I stopped touching up my hair when coloring, but I realize that my length is probably still damaged from touchups..

Dandruff is just what I call it, I have never gotten a diagnosis. My flakes are white, no hairdresser have ever commented on it. I do have a lot of allergies, and my aunt has psoriasis, but I don't think that's what I have. I did have atopic eczema on my wrists as a kid but luckily grew out of that.

The first link you posted, my weird hairs sound a lot like kinky hairs. Lol, I love that XD
I think I have a lot of trial and error in my future, but I have lots of new info to help me along! I've decided to ditch my head and shoulders shampoo for sure :)

You really need a medical diagnosis for that scalp issue, different LHC practices can worsen certain skin disorders Once you have a diagnosis we can work with you to find a skin and hair friendly remedy, a lot of the pharmacy type products are quite harsh. There are several different scalp complaints that can present as flaking - my guess would be a form of dermatitis since you have a history of eczema (AKA atopic dermatitis) and allergies (AKA contact dermatitis). Do be sure you are eating a nutrient dense, anti inflammatory wholefood diet, this can substantially reduce the severity of many allergies and any inflammatory condition (such as a dermatitis).

If you want to touch up the lengths consider a high pigment semi permanent like Manic Panic or La Riche Directions, these take well over previously dyed hair and are super gentle - just dye molecules in a conditioner base.

Anje
September 23rd, 2013, 09:40 AM
Sorry but this is misleading. The most common flaky scalp condition is seborrhoeic dermatitis AKA greasy dandruff, atopic eczema or contact dermatitis are not unusual, xerosis (simple dry skin) is down at the bottom of the list with psoriasis. SD can easily be worsened by conditioner only washing, improvements in any of the common scalp disorders are more likely to be down to dropping harsh surfactants that thin and irritate the skin than 'moisturising' with the conditioner.
Um, yeah. That's why I said that it's good for people who get dry skin flakes. Greasy SD flakes are obviously different.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 23rd, 2013, 10:13 AM
I really have no idea where I'd have to go to get my scalp checked :S And it sounds so expensive. Whenever I have asked hairdressers for help they've always sold me the most expensive product and it has always worsened my condition. Same story with pharmacies, it seems they are more concerned with selling one expensive product than a repeat happy customer.

How do you keep from brushing while hair is wet? I'm slowly going crazy here ;)

spidermom
September 23rd, 2013, 10:18 AM
Just do something else; it's really bad for hair to be brushed while wet. That's when it's weakest.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 23rd, 2013, 10:56 AM
My "bangs" are shorter than the rest of my hair so they are drying quicker, it looks like I have some corkscrews going on. I'm freaking out a little bit, I knew my hair wasn't pin straight, but come on, is it really possible I've had almost curls but my brushing while wet has straightened it out? I can't wait to see what the rest of my hair looks like when dry :)

Lady SleepsAlot
September 23rd, 2013, 11:30 AM
Not dry yet, but here's how my hair looks right now:
http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_6631.jpg

What do you guys think? Is it 1b or do I indeed have curls/waves?

Anje
September 23rd, 2013, 11:32 AM
Looks like you've got waves to me. Hard to say exactly, but I'd put you at about 2b, I think.

stachelbeere
September 23rd, 2013, 11:34 AM
2a-ish...?

Vampyria
September 23rd, 2013, 11:36 AM
I thought, I was 1c when I first came here. I had curly and then wavy hair before, but it just kind of straightened when I started taking care of it. So I thought that it's going to be straight again like when I was a kid. I realized my hair is still wavy when I did water only. It's definitely wavy. I'll say 2a, but maybe it could be more if it was shorter (not weighted down).

Leeloo
September 23rd, 2013, 11:45 AM
Frizz usually means that your hair is wavy or curly and you are not caring for it as curly hair. Look up Curly Girl method. It should help with frizz.
Another thing to try is to clarify your hair (any cheap clarifying shampoo should work) if that doesn’t help with the texture then maybe try chelating.
S&D is great to get rid of damage, but please do not pull your hair out!
Have you tried silk or satin sleep cap AND pillow case? That might help preventing new damage and frizz. Also coconut oiling the night before wash day (just hair not scalp, some might shed more if oiling scalp).

Flor
September 23rd, 2013, 01:09 PM
I always get puzzled with the tips like "wavy/curly hair should only be combed in shower". I assume it's part of the Curly Girly method? I just washed hair (combed in shower) and waiting for it to dry. I can already tell that I'm more likely 2b-2c. It's no help to me though! Because 1) it takes FOREVER for hair to air dry, if I don't comb it and flip it from side to side every now and then. It's still hot weather here, but in Winter it's gonna take a whole day! 2) I don't like how it looks, just a few sorry-looking curly locks and very little volume, 3) what do I do if I want to put it up? I can't do that without combing/brushing it.

catasa
September 23rd, 2013, 02:51 PM
I agree with others, definitely into the 2:s! I think you should say goodbye to your brush :)

So I would suggest this way to start trying out a new routine (of course you will have to be careful to see if your scalp issue gets worse):
- Switch to a milder/SLS-free shampoo and maybe use it diluted. This will probably initially make your hair feel not so clean and/or you may need to wash more often, but this should get better as your scalp gets used to the milder cleansing.
- Find a good conditioner/leave-in that you can scrunch your lengths/waves with while dripping wet (cone-free if you stop using SLS and also want to avoid having to clarify too often)
- Let dry without touching at all, and no brushing or combing ever when dry or drying! :)

If this seems to work with your hair, you can try out some more things along the same line, like CO for instance. If it does not seem to work well, than maybe try to skip the conditioner as I mentioned earlier, maybe use mineral oil or some other oil as leave-in, and see if that seems to work better. Since your hair looks very good in the water-only picture it doesn´t seem to me like it is very dried-out (even though it is hard to say since it still a little wet/damp).

I usually help the drying along a little by blow-drying on cool for a while, strictly from above and down along the lengths, and not too close to the hair (according to research it is not damaging to hair on cool, and it may make the cuticle lay more flat and the hair look better).

Also, I usually comb (not brush) just my canopy, i e the top-most 10-20 centimeters of my hair, since my canopy is not wavy and often looks rather messy if I do not comb it.

And lastly, regarding the colouring - I think you mentioned that you were going to look into henna. I can also recommend natural pre-mixed deposit-only plant powder dyes, for example Santé or Logona (I am not sure if they are available where you are though). They are a little bit messy to use (what home-colouring isn´t?) but they give very nice and natural shades I think, and they cover greys nicely, at least if you keep them in your hair for about two hours. Washes out over time, grey-coverage usually lasts about four weeks for me, but then I wash every second day.

Lady SleepsAlot
September 23rd, 2013, 03:36 PM
My hair is probably 94% dry now, so here is the final photos (you must be tired of looking at my hair by now!)

http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_6634.jpg

and crazyfuzz:
http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/fuzz.jpg

Thanks so much catasa, that's a lot of great info for a newbie like me :)
I feel a bit sad about throwing away the brush, because, and this might sound insane, brushing really calms me. I find it relieves stress somehow, so I'm a bit addicted :P (but I never brush more than 3 times a day, usually only 2 times)
And like Flor, if I don't brush it takes that much longer for my hair to dry, it seems like a bunch of strands stick together and holds the water in and brushing helps get that water out of there.
I guess I'll just have to keep experimenting :) I'm still in shock over how wavy my hair is :D I just skyped with my mom and she commented that she like my natural waves a lot more than my "straight" hair, and I'm liking it too, just a little overwhelmed!

Thanks so much everyone, I now have knowledge to start taming the fuzzies and start treating my hair right :)

stachelbeere
September 23rd, 2013, 03:40 PM
WOW. the waves look so beautiful!!! I wish my hair did that; to get this kind of look I have to curl it :o

congrats...? :)

Panth
September 23rd, 2013, 03:41 PM
My hair is probably 94% dry now, so here is the final photos (you must be tired of looking at my hair by now!)

and crazyfuzz:

Thanks so much catasa, that's a lot of great info for a newbie like me :)
I feel a bit sad about throwing away the brush, because, and this might sound insane, brushing really calms me. I find it relieves stress somehow, so I'm a bit addicted :P (but I never brush more than 3 times a day, usually only 2 times)
And like Flor, if I don't brush it takes that much longer for my hair to dry, it seems like a bunch of strands stick together and holds the water in and brushing helps get that water out of there.
I guess I'll just have to keep experimenting :) I'm still in shock over how wavy my hair is :D I just skyped with my mom and she commented that she like my natural waves a lot more than my "straight" hair, and I'm liking it too, just a little overwhelmed!

Thanks so much everyone, I now have knowledge to start taming the fuzzies and start treating my hair right :)

Beautiful waves! I wouldn't worry too much about the fuzz - it's quite likely that a lot of that is just the new growth coming in rather than damage. When you are finding your new routine you will probably be able to find a product that will tame them. Quitting the brush will probably help with the fuzz too.

You should definitely try the Curly Girl method!

lapushka
September 23rd, 2013, 03:56 PM
You have wavy hair. To me it looks like 1c/2a.

Firefox7275
September 24th, 2013, 07:47 AM
I really have no idea where I'd have to go to get my scalp checked :S And it sounds so expensive. Whenever I have asked hairdressers for help they've always sold me the most expensive product and it has always worsened my condition. Same story with pharmacies, it seems they are more concerned with selling one expensive product than a repeat happy customer.

How do you keep from brushing while hair is wet? I'm slowly going crazy here ;)

Hairdressers are not medically qualified and sadly some know as much about dermatology as they could write on a postage stamp, ditto many retail pharmacy assistants. IMO any true professional should have recommended you seek a formal diagnosis, that is certainly how I was trained (originally hospital pharmacy, now in lifestyle healthcare). Family doctors are eminently capable of diagnosing all the common scalp complaints, you don't need to see a dermatologist if you need but don't have insurance (don't know which country you are in). You don't necessarily need to get a prescription, just a diagnosis and we will help you find an evidence based treatment that is skin and hair friendly.



My hair is probably 94% dry now, so here is the final photos (you must be tired of looking at my hair by now!)

http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_6634.jpg

and crazyfuzz:
http://crafty.ladysleepsalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/fuzz.jpg

Thanks so much catasa, that's a lot of great info for a newbie like me :)
I feel a bit sad about throwing away the brush, because, and this might sound insane, brushing really calms me. I find it relieves stress somehow, so I'm a bit addicted :P (but I never brush more than 3 times a day, usually only 2 times)
And like Flor, if I don't brush it takes that much longer for my hair to dry, it seems like a bunch of strands stick together and holds the water in and brushing helps get that water out of there.
I guess I'll just have to keep experimenting :) I'm still in shock over how wavy my hair is :D I just skyped with my mom and she commented that she like my natural waves a lot more than my "straight" hair, and I'm liking it too, just a little overwhelmed!

Thanks so much everyone, I now have knowledge to start taming the fuzzies and start treating my hair right :)

Very pretty!

I'd say 2a, might even be potential for 2b with the Curly Girl method. There are many of us wavies who spent years - even decades - thinking they had poofy/ frizzy 'straight' hair. You could partly diffuser dry on a low heat, then air dry to finish - the damaging aspects of blow frying are high temps, going to bone dry, brushing when wet - partial diffusing avoids all of that so should be hair friendly. There are also various wavy hair friendly ingredients with proven heat protectant properties, including hydrolysed protein, some polyquats, glycerin and propylene glycol. There is a more comprehensive list over on the Wavy Hair Community on Facebook if you want to go that route.

catasa
September 24th, 2013, 12:53 PM
Your hair is lovely :crush: very nice shine and wave. And that is without conditioner or other moisturizer/sealing if I understood you correctly! :)

I agree with others about the "fuzz", that is probably new growth. I´ve got them as well, and I think that a wavy/curly will probably have to accept them, though they can be a little bit tamed of course. It is a process to realize that you have wavy hair and to find a routine that works, I´ve also been through it (as Firefox said, I spent decades struggling with my "hopeless" hair), but when you find your way it is quite rewarding!

I understand about your brushing calming down :( but as others said, it is probably making the fuzz worse... hopefully you can find something else.

I can also very highly recommend getting silk pillow cases, cotton ones really make the frizz/fuzz worse for me at least. If they are hard to find ready-made where you are, buy a silk travel sheet and cut it up and sew some pillow cases, that is what I did at first and it worked really well (even though they are not the nicest pillow cases in the world...). That silk is actually softer than the ones I later bought ready-made.

Good luck! :blossom:

spidermom
September 24th, 2013, 01:13 PM
You definitely are a 2 and not a 1-anything (so you can dump the 1C out of your hair type). I'm not sure whether to go with 2A or 2B, but I'm most inclined toward 2B for you.

What you are calling frizz is, I believe, newer, shorter growth (with probably some breakage mixed in since you do brush it while wet). Remember that you shed out hairs that have reached the end of their growing cycles every day, and you grow in new hairs every day. Those newer hairs have less weight on them, so they curl up more than the older, longer hairs. My husband helped change my attitude about them by calling them my angel hairs. He told me that when the light hits them just right, it looks like I have a halo and reminds him what an angel I am ( :crush: )

You can certainly brush your hair, but you want to wait until your hair is dry. I try to wait until just before I'm going to wash my hair, then I have a nice relaxing brushing session to remove shed hairs, stimulate my scalp, and distribute the oils. But if I really want to, I brush it at other times, but never while wet. While wet, use a wide-tooth comb and be very careful not to pull/stretch hairs. Doing a head-bang kind of movement where you throw your hair back and forth a few times while drying helps to separate and dry faster. What I like to do during cold weather is gather my hair into the bonnet of my hair dryer and use the cooler setting (which is stil warm). Or I blow-dry on the warm setting to scalp, cool to length, using my wide-tooth comb to control and direct my hair.

Then, as I said, gel to tame surface fluffies, especially if I've bunned or braided.