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Panth
September 13th, 2013, 06:26 PM
Hello all! I'm thinking about a change in routine and was looking for some suggestions, particularly from the classic+ crowd.

What I have:
- 1b/F/ii hair (was about 3 and 7/8" thickness but have shed a lot over the past 2 years and am now at about 2 and 5/8" with what I'm hoping is fuzzies from regrowth)
- past fingertip length (when wet), inching towards knee and trying not to get the "ah, thin ends!" madness and hack off 4-5" like I've done twice now...
- very dark blonde hair (golden when behaving, "dishwater" blonde when not) which precludes too much stretching washes (I don't like the dark scalp hair effect)
- a fair amount of damage in everything except the top ~2 feet due to my ex-habit of constantly wearing it loose
- VERY hard water with no hope of getting a filter (rented flat)

What I've tried:
- Welleda S&C (these (http://www.weleda.co.uk/calendula-products/calendula+chamomile-conditioner-250ml/invt/103015) and other scents) (worked well but I can't afford them - they were gifts)
- catnip (complete unmitigated disaster ... although I was avoiding conditioner at the time to enable it to properly penetrate, so that probably had something to do with it)
- Body Shop S&C (loved the now-discontinued Manuka one; hate the Rainforest one)
- oil shampoo (Pantene Clarifying 1:2 with coconut oil, followed with vinegar rinse) (worked wonderfully until I moved to a hard water area, but I had problems with static in winter)

Current routine:
- Pantene S&C (Aqua Light) 2-3x a week, fingercombing when the conditioner is in; put up in a turban with a regular towel to dry; comb with wide-toothed comb when damp; sometimes damp plait it
- sleep with silk satin sleep stocking
- detangle once daily with wide-toothed wooden comb (I nearly always have braid waves when I do this)
- plait daily and cinnabun it with spin pins (I can't vary this as I need the plait to cycle to work, then need to put it up away during work as I'm in a lab)
- very occasional coconut oil dab on ends, or as heavy oiling before washing
- S&D when things get terrible, otherwise aiming for no trims until knee (though this aim doesn't always come true...)

Current problems:
- length-gain is very slow and splits are evident, though not horrific
- scaly scalp, particularly in the few days after washing (this is not dandruff per se as it also occurs on my forehead immediately post-washing - it's a reaction to SOMETHING in my shampoo/conditioner ... I thought I'd stopped this problem by conditioning from the ears down but it's started up again ... change in shampoo formulation, maybe?)
- moderately dry ends
- long-term loss of thickness (though, of course this could be not product-related...)

Provisos for the new routine:
- I am a lazy, benign neglect kind of person ;) so, nothing too complicated!
- Nothing too expensive please! (and by this, I consider £3 / 200ml shampoo or conditioner to be nearing the upper bracket - yes, I'm cheap)
- Must be UK available - I have access to Tescos, Boots, Sainsburys and maybe a Superdrug

Thank you all in advance for your suggestions!

(EDIT: see further information in comments below.)

torrilin
September 13th, 2013, 07:45 PM
There are actually a lot of options for braided styles that are bike helmet friendly. If you do not mind the extra time involved for doing twin braids, the options go up further. I don't much mind the extra time from 2 braids vs 1, and I'm pretty lazy, so I thought I'd throw the option out there. For me at least, style variations really help with impatience and boredom.

For the scaly skin, have you talked with a doctor about it? It sounds like it could be regular dry skin, or it could be psoriasis, or possibly a skin infection of some sort. It can't hurt to double check that there's nothing medically weird going on. And well, if it does turn out to be dry skin, the fix is pretty easy... use gentler stuff for washing. If it is medical, it might well be contributing to the apparent slow growth too.

I have no useful direct product suggestions, but it does sound like you are leaning towards fairly heavily scented products. Fragrances are (annoyingly) a really common skin irritant, so if you *are* reacting to a product, it's the first thing a doctor will try to get you to give up. Since I'm stupidly fragrance sensitive, I largely stick to fragrance free products which are (woefully) not the cheapest thing out there. About the cheapest fragrance free thing I've found is the 1L bottles of Alaffia's Everyday Shea conditioner which usually go for around $10 in the US. And of course, shea nuts contain latex, which is another stupidly common skin irritant... I lucked out on that one and latex does not mess me up. Hopefully some UK/EU types can chime in with suggestions.

starlamelissa
September 13th, 2013, 07:55 PM
Fragrance free, or lightly scented products to avoid irritation. Aqua light in the usa is very lightly scented. Maybe a medicated shampoo would help. Maybe Plain classic head and shoulders for your scaly scalp? Or fragrance free t-sal...?I like thoroughly rinsing to make sure nothing is left to irritate my skin.

the rest of your routine sounds great.

Melika
September 13th, 2013, 08:19 PM
What about water only, with http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=51184? I also have liquid rock flowing from the tap, and this has been wonderful. No way I could do WO without it! I am also sensitive to all shampoos and conditioners that I've ever tried. If it costs too much, I didn't try it, because my hair would require too much of it!

The transition was... interesting. I tried CO for a week or two prior to going WO until I realised I was just as reactive to the conditioner as shampoo. I used coconut oil treatments every week or two and egg washes to get through the transition which really helped dissolve and then prevent that waxy 'helmet'. My hair was darker during transition, but its back to it's natural colour. Hardest part is now getting the oil/sebum down to the ends. I'm having to oil them slightly to keep them managable (they're a bit dry, but only a bit, enough to make them try to tangle).

I have to add I've also stopped eating grains and sugar, which has helped my scalp immensely. I can tell when I've eaten sugar- scalp scales up in a jiffy. Though it's still less scaly even then because I'm not further aggravating it with shampoo or conditioner, which also made it pink/irritated looking.

Other than that, shampoo bars look interesting. And this simple recipe http://wellnessmama.com/3701/how-to-make-natural-shampoo-easy-recipe/ was something I was going to try until I decided to just jump into WO. :)

Crumpet
September 13th, 2013, 08:47 PM
My hair isn't nearly as long as yours and I'll let other, more experienced people help with other issues. I just thought I'd share a braided bun that I just tried and would work well for you:

Jamie Leigh Bun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6vq6paUaF0

The weight distributes really well and its rock solid. You can take it up and down as needed very quickly.

Leeloo
September 13th, 2013, 09:19 PM
About a water filter. I've got the kind that just screws on before your shower head, so no need for the landlord to get involved. Maybe you can find one online (the one I've got is made by Sprite).

I've always found Pantene products to be very harsh. Maybe switching to something like Say Yes to Carrots might be more gentle and help with scalp and forehead skin reaction.

Have you tried using catnip in this way (this usage of catnip rinse was described in catnip thread here on LHC): 1 level tsp of catnip to 250-300 ml of boiling water, steep till cool, tap condensation back into container, pour over freshly shampoo only washed hair, cover with shower cap and wait one hour, rinse and condition. The rinse will keep in the refrigerator for up to 10 days.

Hope this helps,:sun:

~honeyflower~
September 13th, 2013, 10:27 PM
For the scaly skin, have you talked with a doctor about it? It sounds like it could be regular dry skin, or it could be psoriasis, or possibly a skin infection of some sort.

That is what I'm thinking too, I had psoriasis four years ago and it still occurs every now and then. For me, it mainly hits in the spring and fall when the seasons are changing and it can be on scalp, legs or chest. Thankfully, its not contagious! I have been looking at vinegar rinses as a treatment but haven't gotten psoriasis yet to experiment. I can see why it would help; it balences out the PH levels and kills bacteria. I say give vinegar rinse a try, remember its 1 tblsp to 8 oz of distilled water.

Panth
September 14th, 2013, 04:49 AM
Thank you all for your replies so far! I'm going to respond in one big block, seeing as some of you were talking about the same things.

1) Hairstyle.
I'm pretty inept with my hair. I technically can French plait my own hair, but with much struggle, cursing and time. I can't Dutch plait or do anything fancier than that. I could do two plaits ... but when you're nearing knee just one takes long enough. I'm not sure doubling the styling time is worth it. Mainly, I can't afford to do any style on a work day that I can't guarantee will hold up, no pain and no headaches and no falling down, for 8+ hours. That excludes just about anything except a braided cinnabun or a coronet braid (though I sometimes do other styles on the weekend when re-doing my hair multiple times in the day doesn't matter - mostly a modified orchid bun or a french twist).
Oh, my other problem with hairstyles is that I've worn a centre parting for 1/4 of a century... that thing is NOT moving now and I cannot make my hair have no parting without doing the style tight enough to risk traction alopecia (and even then, my parting will magically re-appear (poker straight!) within an hour...). Most updos don't seem to work well when done at the nape of the neck and I can't make higher ones work with my parting (and sooner or later they start to hurt). I guess I'm just really inept...

2) Scaly skin
I've not seen a doctor (I guess I have the British attitude of "don't want to bother people about non-serious things"). I have had both a prick test and patch test for allergies for other reasons and perfumes did not come up in that, nor did latex. I very much suspect it is a dry skin reaction to some component of my products as when it does happen it comes/goes in swing with my washing schedule, particularly in the forehead region.
I realise the Pantene is harsh. However, I've used various clear shampoo versions of it all my life (the old "Sheer Volume" one for years, occasionally the "Classic" one and more recently the "Aqua Light" one). I just gravitate back to it because it's familiar and works ok - and I don't really have the money to go out and try loads of new products and the gentler or SLS- and 'cone-free stuff I've tried before just made my hair sticky-feeling, coated-feeling, tangly and impossible to even comb. I like the shine from the Pantene, but more than that I like the no-tangles and the no-static.

3) WO
Not an option for me. I'm blonde with fine hair - stretching my regular S&C washes beyond 4 or 5 days tops gives me horrible-looking hair (noticeably darker roots/scalp hair (think muggy, dark dishwater blonde/brown), lank, greasy, piecy, showing my scalp through when in updos, etc.). I don't really feel comfortable going outside the house like that. It reminds me too much of being at school, when wash day was once a week and I had embarrassingly greasy hair for half the week...

4) Catnip
I tried catnip in exactly that way, except with an SLS-free shampoo (Body Shop Rainforest one) and no conditioner afterwards. At the time I had read that the catnip was supposed to be the conditioner. Anyway, it was a complete and utter disaster, as one might expect from no conditioner...

5) Vinegar rinses
I always did these when I was doing oil shampoo (white wine vinegar or just plain white vinegar as I was worried about ACV affecting my blonde, about 1 teaspoon to 1 medium glass of water, didn't rinse it out). I've kind of got out of the habit now I'm back doing S&C, but perhaps I should resume them.

starlamelissa
September 14th, 2013, 05:00 AM
Thank you all for your replies so far! I'm going to respond in one big block, seeing as some of you were talking about the same things.

1) Hairstyle.
I'm pretty inept with my hair. I technically can French plait my own hair, but with much struggle, cursing and time. I can't Dutch plait or do anything fancier than that. I could do two plaits ... but when you're nearing knee just one takes long enough. I'm not sure doubling the styling time is worth it. Mainly, I can't afford to do any style on a work day that I can't guarantee will hold up, no pain and no headaches and no falling down, for 8+ hours. That excludes just about anything except a braided cinnabun or a coronet braid (though I sometimes do other styles on the weekend when re-doing my hair multiple times in the day doesn't matter - mostly a modified orchid bun or a french twist).


2) Scaly skin
I've not seen a doctor (I guess I have the British attitude of "don't want to bother people about non-serious things"). I have had both a prick test and patch test for allergies for other reasons and perfumes did not come up in that, nor did latex. I very much suspect it is a dry skin reaction to some component of my products as when it does happen it comes/goes in swing with my washing schedule, particularly in the forehead region.
I realise the Pantene is harsh. However, I've used various clear shampoo versions of it all my life (the old "Sheer Volume" one for years, occasionally the "Classic" one and more recently the "Aqua Light" one). I just gravitate back to it because it's familiar and works ok - and I don't really have the money to go out and try loads of new products and the gentler or SLS- and 'cone-free stuff I've tried before just made my hair sticky-feeling, coated-feeling, tangly and impossible to even comb. I like the shine from the Pantene, but more than that I like the no-tangles and the no-static.

3) WO
Not an option for me. I'm blonde with fine hair - stretching my regular S&C washes beyond 4 or 5 days tops gives me horrible-looking hair (noticeably darker roots/scalp hair (think muggy, dark dishwater blonde/brown), lank, greasy, piecy, showing my scalp through when in updos, etc.). I don't really feel comfortable going outside the house like that. It reminds me too much of being at school, when wash day was once a week and I had embarrassingly greasy hair for half the week...
.

Nothing wrong with liking pantene, sulphates, or clear products. I have purchased aqua light shampoo in the us 3 times because I like it so much! Currently I am using another favorite, suave professionals sleek shampoo, and I can honestly say those are the only two shampoos I really love.

Panth
September 14th, 2013, 05:43 AM
Nothing wrong with liking pantene, sulphates, or clear products. I have purchased aqua light shampoo in the us 3 times because I like it so much! Currently I am using another favorite, suave professionals sleek shampoo, and I can honestly say those are the only two shampoos I really love.

Oh, I know - I'm not one of the SLS and 'cone haters. (Erm... kind of obviously!)

I don't know, maybe I'm just looking for a change in routine as I'm getting to the "argh! thin ends! want to cut!" stage again and I told myself that I wasn't doing that again. I'd planned to do TBL to knee in one go with no trims, then maintain at knee to thicken, but both May this year and May last year I hacked off 4-5". Do not want to do that again - I would be at knee by now if I hadn't succumbed before - so perhaps I'm looking for another outlet for the frustration...

torrilin
September 14th, 2013, 07:05 AM
Yeah, changing things up can be fun :). That's part of why I suggested the styling thing, in case it was an outlet that sounded even a tiny bit appealing. I won't say I do twin braid styles by default, but on my head, they tend to be a bit easier to do and a lot more secure. I also have hair that likes to part (tho mine is much less rigorous about a knife edge center part) and I find that works well with twin braids. But creeping towards tailbone ain't fingertip, and I can totally understand not wanting to stress out over styling.

Some new hair toys might be a fun/low stress way to get variety too.

As far as the doctor thing... it might be a total nothing. I would really prefer it, and I know you would too! Thing is, even a simple thing like dry skin could cause problems with your growth. It's not a good thing if your skin is cracking or itching enough that you wind up bleeding. Too easy to wind up with an infection that way. So taking it seriously for a doctor's visit or two is a sane way to Do Something. (I did not start out *soooo* rabid on this, but between a partner with severe psoriasis and a sister with severe asthma, I've learnt that it's best to ask for help early, before a medical problem has a chance to blow up in your face)

The usual way I'd suggest trying a gentler cleansing method isn't buying special SLS free products or anything. It's taking your regular shampoo and diluting it by working it up into a lather in your hands first, and then working the lather into your scalp. I add as much lather as needed to get my scalp clean, and it usually winds up that it's easier to work lather into my hair than straight shampoo. SLS type shampoos work for me if they're fragrance free. While I'm not opposed to silicones, with my stupid fragrance sensitivities, it usually winds up easier to find products without 'em. A lot of cone heavy conditioners have worked well for me in the past, just... mad itching from the fragrance is not so cool.

akka naeda
September 14th, 2013, 07:17 AM
I use SMT using a stash of Superdrug cocnut deep conditioner, which I think they have now discontinued. Along with that I use Aussie Miracle Moist, it may be too expensive for you, some places have it on 2 for £7 right now. But I make a point of not getting the SMT mix on my scalp and wash that with shampoo (whatever is around, sulphate or not, the most recent thing was from Sainsburys, like you, the cheaper the better and it was called happy hair days I think. It's sulphate free, but it was only about £1.50)

IMO my biggest problem is the band at the end of the plait, which like you I have to have - plait plus bun to ensure hair is safely out of the way. It's very noticeable that that is where the breakage/thin ends start to happen, even with hair safe eleastics or towlling bands. My hair has basically stopped growing at just below knee (it hasn't because I've just grown out henna in 4 years) but it never gets further down my legs or thicker at the ends than it is now. I was going to trial a paranda to see what effect that had - the ends of the hair would be plaited into the paranda and so hopefully wouldn't break, and then the paranda would be bunned to stop breakage occuring down the length. Never got round to it because it makes my hair unamageably thick when bunned. (I use a Fig 8 bun, as I can't a cinnabun to stay up)

Panth
September 14th, 2013, 07:50 AM
Yeah, changing things up can be fun :). That's part of why I suggested the styling thing, in case it was an outlet that sounded even a tiny bit appealing. I won't say I do twin braid styles by default, but on my head, they tend to be a bit easier to do and a lot more secure. I also have hair that likes to part (tho mine is much less rigorous about a knife edge center part) and I find that works well with twin braids. But creeping towards tailbone ain't fingertip, and I can totally understand not wanting to stress out over styling.

Some new hair toys might be a fun/low stress way to get variety too.

As far as the doctor thing... it might be a total nothing. I would really prefer it, and I know you would too! Thing is, even a simple thing like dry skin could cause problems with your growth. It's not a good thing if your skin is cracking or itching enough that you wind up bleeding. Too easy to wind up with an infection that way. So taking it seriously for a doctor's visit or two is a sane way to Do Something. (I did not start out *soooo* rabid on this, but between a partner with severe psoriasis and a sister with severe asthma, I've learnt that it's best to ask for help early, before a medical problem has a chance to blow up in your face)

The usual way I'd suggest trying a gentler cleansing method isn't buying special SLS free products or anything. It's taking your regular shampoo and diluting it by working it up into a lather in your hands first, and then working the lather into your scalp. I add as much lather as needed to get my scalp clean, and it usually winds up that it's easier to work lather into my hair than straight shampoo. SLS type shampoos work for me if they're fragrance free. While I'm not opposed to silicones, with my stupid fragrance sensitivities, it usually winds up easier to find products without 'em. A lot of cone heavy conditioners have worked well for me in the past, just... mad itching from the fragrance is not so cool.

The problem with styling is that a) I'm the sort of person who day-to-day is fairly indifferent to their appearance provided that I am clean and my clothes are not horrifically worn and b) I'm really inept at styling. I suspect it would have been better to learn at shorter lengths - when (for example) I would have been able to comb out the "reverse plaiting" occurring at the bottom of a French plait. Everything is much more work to learn when your hair is longer than your arms...

^_^ I totally get it about the doctor. I just have that "oh, it's not serious, it doesn't matter" British attitude. I should probably go...

I shall try that with the diluted shampoo. I usually get a fairly similar effect when I'm at the tail end of a bottle, so there's no reason that I couldn't just dilute somehow all the time.

Panth
September 14th, 2013, 08:00 AM
I use SMT using a stash of Superdrug cocnut deep conditioner, which I think they have now discontinued. Along with that I use Aussie Miracle Moist, it may be too expensive for you, some places have it on 2 for £7 right now. But I make a point of not getting the SMT mix on my scalp and wash that with shampoo (whatever is around, sulphate or not, the most recent thing was from Sainsburys, like you, the cheaper the better and it was called happy hair days I think. It's sulphate free, but it was only about £1.50)

IMO my biggest problem is the band at the end of the plait, which like you I have to have - plait plus bun to ensure hair is safely out of the way. It's very noticeable that that is where the breakage/thin ends start to happen, even with hair safe eleastics or towlling bands. My hair has basically stopped growing at just below knee (it hasn't because I've just grown out henna in 4 years) but it never gets further down my legs or thicker at the ends than it is now. I was going to trial a paranda to see what effect that had - the ends of the hair would be plaited into the paranda and so hopefully wouldn't break, and then the paranda would be bunned to stop breakage occuring down the length. Never got round to it because it makes my hair unamageably thick when bunned. (I use a Fig 8 bun, as I can't a cinnabun to stay up)

I tried SMTs once, but that was with the Body Shop Rainforest conditioner which my hair hated. I've not tried it with anything else. Do you find it works ok with 'cones? Also, do you have any suggestion for the honey as I don't have a microwave but don't want to bleach my hair. Perhaps if I mixed it 1:1 with boiling water and let stand til cool?

I'm not sure whether the band in my plait is a real problem for me. When my plait is down I use a band, but I don't when I bun the plait. My main problem is just general fairly severe taper plus a reduced overall thickness from my sheds (which seemed to take out a lot of the very long hairs). I have played with a paranda, but find it a bit heavy when bunned (however, it is awesome for fun colour!).

As for a cinnabun, I do this: 4x regular (not mini) spin pins. First one in at about 5 o' clock pointing diagonally up/left. Second one in at about 7-8 o' clock pointing diagonally up/right. Third one in at about 2 o' clock, often running horizontally. Fourth one in at about 10 o' clock, but not starting on the outermost coil but the next coil in. I interlock the pins. The first three hold the bun to my head and the last one stops the middle popping out and it turning into a beebut bun / collapsing.

melusine963
September 14th, 2013, 08:53 AM
I had a similar scalp problem a few years ago. It was only after I switched to sulphate-free shampoo that I realised the sulphates I'd been using were way too harsh on my skin. I'm cheap just like you, but I find the Boots Naked range well worth the money (£4.19 for 250ml, I believe). One bottle lasts me at least six months, given I wash my hair once a week and only use the shampoo on my scalp.

Switching to sulphate-free meant I also had to give up cones, but the good news is that con-free conditioners are dirt cheap in the UK. I've used Boots essentials conditioner (discontinued, sadly), but you can also get really cheap own-brand ones at Superdrug, Morrisons (I've heard good things about the Apple one), Tesco and Asda.

jrmviola
September 14th, 2013, 09:18 AM
If you have access to Pantene (and arent afraid of cones or such) then maybe you'll have access to "Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition 3 minute Undo conditioner. it costs about 6$ for 250ml. I've tried Pantene and on my hair it doesnt work near as well as this other stuff. It is almost like a Paste it is so thick but it works very well, my hair is just fingertip length and I have used it the entire time i've been growing my hair. I've tried switching Brands (including Aussie, Pantene, and Tresseme) and nothing works near as good as this stuff... on me. As far as your shampoo, my mom is allergic to fragrance (nothing that would show up on a test) but she breaks out if we wash our clothes in anything other that Sears Laundry Detergent (a bland product no fragrence). Hope that helps!

catasa
September 14th, 2013, 09:27 AM
I also have rather hard/mineral-rich water and after years of struggling to find a routine I finally tested to dilute my shampoo with my regular water, but to also add a little ACV in the dilution. This works really well for me, I think that the ACV helps with the water hardness and also softens the hair a little. I use about 0,5-1,5 teaspoon of shampoo depending on how much cleansing I want/how dirty my hair is, dilute with about 1-1,5 deciliter of water, and add about 1 teaspoon of ACV. I use an SLS-free shampoo (Urtekram No perfume) since I find SLS shampoos to harsh to use more often than for clarifying, but I guess it should work as well with SLS-shampoo.

Note though (if you didn“t know it before) that ACV can add a reddish tone to the hair, if you don“t want that it is probably better to use white vinegar.

After the shampoo dilution I personally don“t use conditioner at all since it doesn“t agree with my hair, I use a few drops of pure mineral oil as a leave-in instead. I realize that most hairs do well on conditioner, but maybe you could try mineral oil as a leave-in on top of the conditioner to help with dryness and split ends? It didn“t works for me on top of conditioner (just felt coated and icky) but I think that many others use it that way.

Goos luck! :)

heidi w.
September 14th, 2013, 09:45 AM
Water quality is easy to solve even if renting. You can buy a showerhead filter and install it yourself, and de-install it when you leave, and the landlord need never know.

Go to a home provision type of store and review the types of ways you can filter the water.

This is a relatively inexpensive way to improve from hard water. This will change your hair a lot.

What I used to do:

Wash hair
Condition hair with Biolage Conditioning Balm
allow to air dry
(I later learned a way to quicken the drying time with fans.)
ACV rinse after conditioning
Allow hair to air dry
Oil hair from earlobes on down with Spectrum Naturals Coconut Oil ( I made a long hair video that shows how I do this; how I boar bristle brush the hair and how I do an easy updo)

ladyfey
September 14th, 2013, 09:45 AM
I'm almost ankle length and I wash every other day with Nature's Plus cleansing bar (gotten on-line) and condition with Earthly Delight conditioner (also on-line.) I comb through the conditioner after leaving it on while I wash my body, then rinse. I use a tangle teezer (LOVE) and wear a sleep cap at night. I wear fairly basic buns, with hairsticks. I go between a nautilus bun, Jamie Leigh bun, Lazy-wrap bun, cinnabun, and a single braid Chinese bun. The Earthly Delight is essential for me, no other conditioner I've tried comes close. Also the tangle teezer, great on me and my kids hair. And for me, nothing holds my hair up like sticks!

Shell
September 14th, 2013, 10:01 AM
I used to be a few inches from fingertip, so I feel qualified. :) How about double dutch braids coiled into two buns at the nape of your neck, or a faux crown braid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P7MiC_GvHY)?

And, I don't live in the UK, so no help on products. I do however, recommend against catnip rinses. You are a blonde person, and catnip can darken hair--in fact it's often used for that. So, I think S & D is better for maintenance, or a nice oil on the ends. I also like to use rinse out conditioner as leave in on my length, and even on dry hair--works like a charm. :grin:

Night_Kitten
September 14th, 2013, 02:13 PM
My routine is wash once a week (shampoo, condition, ACV rinse as final rinse), and oil the ends (bottom ~5'') after the hair air-dries. If I feel up to it I do a heavy oiling the day before wash, but half the times I'm just too lazy :p My water is also hard, I found the ACV rinse helps with that...
With my hair it seems that less is more - all the leave-ins or products I tried didn't help in the good case and made things worse in the bad, only thing that worked was oiling.
I can't suggest any shampoo / conditioner (I use local products that aren't marketed abroad from where I live to the best of my knowledge).
My go-to style is buns, but that obviously wouldn't fit under a helmet, so perhaps some braided styles?
My ends are also thinner than I'd like, so no suggestions there... :( I wish I knew of a way to thicken them (other than trimming), but as far as I know there isn't one, so I'm trying to make do with the taper...

Panth
September 14th, 2013, 02:29 PM
Thank you all very much for the suggestions so far. :flower:

Firefox7275
September 17th, 2013, 02:42 PM
Hello all! I'm thinking about a change in routine and was looking for some suggestions, particularly from the classic+ crowd.

What I have:
- 1b/F/ii hair (was about 3 and 7/8" thickness but have shed a lot over the past 2 years and am now at about 2 and 5/8" with what I'm hoping is fuzzies from regrowth)
- past fingertip length (when wet), inching towards knee and trying not to get the "ah, thin ends!" madness and hack off 4-5" like I've done twice now...
- very dark blonde hair (golden when behaving, "dishwater" blonde when not) which precludes too much stretching washes (I don't like the dark scalp hair effect)
- a fair amount of damage in everything except the top ~2 feet due to my ex-habit of constantly wearing it loose
- VERY hard water with no hope of getting a filter (rented flat)

What I've tried:
- Welleda S&C (these (http://www.weleda.co.uk/calendula-products/calendula+chamomile-conditioner-250ml/invt/103015) and other scents) (worked well but I can't afford them - they were gifts)
- catnip (complete unmitigated disaster ... although I was avoiding conditioner at the time to enable it to properly penetrate, so that probably had something to do with it)
- Body Shop S&C (loved the now-discontinued Manuka one; hate the Rainforest one)
- oil shampoo (Pantene Clarifying 1:2 with coconut oil, followed with vinegar rinse) (worked wonderfully until I moved to a hard water area, but I had problems with static in winter)

Current routine:
- Pantene S&C (Aqua Light) 2-3x a week, fingercombing when the conditioner is in; put up in a turban with a regular towel to dry; comb with wide-toothed comb when damp; sometimes damp plait it
- sleep with silk satin sleep stocking
- detangle once daily with wide-toothed wooden comb (I nearly always have braid waves when I do this)
- plait daily and cinnabun it with spin pins (I can't vary this as I need the plait to cycle to work, then need to put it up away during work as I'm in a lab)
- very occasional coconut oil dab on ends, or as heavy oiling before washing
- S&D when things get terrible, otherwise aiming for no trims until knee (though this aim doesn't always come true...)

Current problems:
- length-gain is very slow and splits are evident, though not horrific
- scaly scalp, particularly in the few days after washing (this is not dandruff per se as it also occurs on my forehead immediately post-washing - it's a reaction to SOMETHING in my shampoo/conditioner ... I thought I'd stopped this problem by conditioning from the ears down but it's started up again ... change in shampoo formulation, maybe?)
- moderately dry ends
- long-term loss of thickness (though, of course this could be not product-related...)

Provisos for the new routine:
- I am a lazy, benign neglect kind of person ;) so, nothing too complicated!
- Nothing too expensive please! (and by this, I consider £3 / 200ml shampoo or conditioner to be nearing the upper bracket - yes, I'm cheap)
- Must be UK available - I have access to Tescos, Boots, Sainsburys and maybe a Superdrug

Thank you all in advance for your suggestions!

(EDIT: see further information in comments below.)


Thanks for the message, not sure I will say anything I haven't said many times tho! Nowhere near classic but have done some reading on damaged hair (which all 'older'/ longer hair is inevitably).

It is my understanding that splits generally mean the entire protective cuticle is gone - no way back from that sadly but younger/ healthier hair could be patch repaired with hydrolysed protein, ceramides, 18-MEA and/ or panthenol. Hydrolysed protein particularly often works well for finer hair and is not difficult to find as an ingredient for cheap. Whilst I don't really use silicones I totally think they have their place for ultra long straight hairs.

Scalp ... go to the darn doctor, it's free! When you have a diagnosis it's easier to suggest solutions. But IMO drop the sulphates, ideally all anionic surfactants (inc. olefin sulfonates), they are damaging to both skin and hair and can worsen any form of dermatitis or xerosis, plus sulphates have been linked to hair loss in susceptible individuals. There is an up to date list of high street sulphate-free shampoos on British Curlies forum, hopefully you can find something well priced. Look for surfactants like the glucosides or betaines, latter if you want to carry on using non water soluble silicones.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/06/are-sulfate-free-shampoos-really.html
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair?page=4
http://www.eczema.org/aqeous

Two possible conditioners come to mind, ingredients of both in my albums, you might experiment with a little (straight up or diluted) as leave in on the ends, not just use as wash out? That would encourage more of the actives to adhere/ absorb and there is less wasted product.
- Schwarzkopf Gliss ultimate volume conditioner, ~£1 from pound shops, Bodycare or Home Bargains (hefty on hydrolysed protein, panthenol, no oils or silicones but good slip and shine)
- L'Oreal Elvive Full Restore 5 repairing conditioner, 2 for ~£4 in Superdrug recently (ceramides, water soluble silicone, palm oil, hydrolysed protein, loads of slip).
Moisture Regulation of Hair Using Cosmetic Proteins (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crodalubricants.com%2Fdownloa d.aspx%3Fs%3D133%26m%3Ddoc%26id%3D19&ei=Dbs4UvbnL6i57Aae64H4Ag&usg=AFQjCNGdU4W2yG4vUZAvQeLh0Zxk8TYBeg&sig2=NBkYy4AqSxgEv0Gj-_czaw&bvm=bv.52164340,d.d2k)
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2007/cc058n04/p00339-p00346.pdf
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2007/cc058n04/p00405-p00411.pdf

There is isopropyl alcohol in the Pantene Aqua Light conditioner according to Ocado. Body Shop Rainforest conditioner contains waxy cetyl esters, they can build up for some. There is a little cetyl esters in the Elvive, but hasn't caused me a major problem even as a leave in and largely co-washing, I hate a nightmare with the 'new' Fructis Repair & Shine.

09robiha
September 17th, 2013, 03:10 PM
Sorry to hijack but I have heard the Gliss Volume Conditioner being mentioned a lot lately on NC.com...would you recommend this for fine yet dense curly hair Firefox? And as a leave-in? I really need a heavy-protein conditioner and I may have found my answer!

Panth
September 17th, 2013, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the message, not sure I will say anything I haven't said many times tho! Nowhere near classic but have done some reading on damaged hair (which all 'older'/ longer hair is inevitably).

It is my understanding that splits generally mean the entire protective cuticle is gone - no way back from that sadly but younger/ healthier hair could be patch repaired with hydrolysed protein, ceramides, 18-MEA and/ or panthenol. Hydrolysed protein particularly often works well for finer hair and is not difficult to find as an ingredient for cheap. Whilst I don't really use silicones I totally think they have their place for ultra long straight hairs.

Scalp ... go to the darn doctor, it's free! When you have a diagnosis it's easier to suggest solutions. But IMO drop the sulphates, ideally all anionic surfactants (inc. olefin sulfonates), they are damaging to both skin and hair and can worsen any form of dermatitis or xerosis, plus sulphates have been linked to hair loss in susceptible individuals. There is an up to date list of high street sulphate-free shampoos on British Curlies forum, hopefully you can find something well priced. Look for surfactants like the glucosides or betaines, latter if you want to carry on using non water soluble silicones.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/06/are-sulfate-free-shampoos-really.html
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair?page=4
http://www.eczema.org/aqeous

Two possible conditioners come to mind, ingredients of both in my albums, you might experiment with a little (straight up or diluted) as leave in on the ends, not just use as wash out? That would encourage more of the actives to adhere/ absorb and there is less wasted product.
- Schwarzkopf Gliss ultimate volume conditioner, ~£1 from pound shops, Bodycare or Home Bargains (hefty on hydrolysed protein, panthenol, no oils or silicones but good slip and shine)
- L'Oreal Elvive Full Restore 5 repairing conditioner, 2 for ~£4 in Superdrug recently (ceramides, water soluble silicone, palm oil, hydrolysed protein, loads of slip).
Moisture Regulation of Hair Using Cosmetic Proteins (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crodalubricants.com%2Fdownloa d.aspx%3Fs%3D133%26m%3Ddoc%26id%3D19&ei=Dbs4UvbnL6i57Aae64H4Ag&usg=AFQjCNGdU4W2yG4vUZAvQeLh0Zxk8TYBeg&sig2=NBkYy4AqSxgEv0Gj-_czaw&bvm=bv.52164340,d.d2k)
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2007/cc058n04/p00339-p00346.pdf
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2007/cc058n04/p00405-p00411.pdf

There is isopropyl alcohol in the Pantene Aqua Light conditioner according to Ocado. Body Shop Rainforest conditioner contains waxy cetyl esters, they can build up for some. There is a little cetyl esters in the Elvive, but hasn't caused me a major problem even as a leave in and largely co-washing, I hate a nightmare with the 'new' Fructis Repair & Shine.

Ok... ok... ^_^ Doctors it is then. I'll stop being bad. :P

As far as stopping the sulphates - would you suggest CO as a way to do this? Or is that unnecessary and is it just a case of finding a sulphate-free shampoo that works? I suppose either would entail a certain amount of trial and error. Do you have any recommendations for reducing the amount of trial and error (and thus expense) required, or is it just simply a case of experimentation?

I shall have a look for those conditioners. I'm on the wrong side of the country for Home Bargains but we definitely have a Superdrug.

(Also, interesting about the Aqueous Cream. I'm prescribed one for glove-triggered eczema on the hands ... and yes, I just checked, mine contains SLS. It seems to work fine, though...)

GrowingGlory
September 17th, 2013, 03:48 PM
You might like California Baby Therapeutic Relief Eczema Shampoo & Body Wash and Skin Cream.

Panth
September 17th, 2013, 03:50 PM
You might like California Baby Therapeutic Relief Eczema Shampoo & Body Wash and Skin Cream.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think we have that in the UK.

Firefox7275
September 17th, 2013, 05:18 PM
Sorry to hijack but I have heard the Gliss Volume Conditioner being mentioned a lot lately on NC.com...would you recommend this for fine yet dense curly hair Firefox? And as a leave-in? I really need a heavy-protein conditioner and I may have found my answer!

It's probably me who keeps posting about the Gliss. IMO try it at ~£1, that is partly why I like recommending it!! I have loved it as a leave in this summer, I get shiny defined waves/ curls, but it doesn't play so nicely for my porous hair with products containing the major humectants like propylene glycol. But try it as a wash out first, see how your hair likes it before piling it on. The 'cocodimonium hydroxypropyl hydrolyzed keratin' is particularly substantive (sticks to hair well) so you might not need it every wash.



Ok... ok... ^_^ Doctors it is then. I'll stop being bad. :P

As far as stopping the sulphates - would you suggest CO as a way to do this? Or is that unnecessary and is it just a case of finding a sulphate-free shampoo that works? I suppose either would entail a certain amount of trial and error. Do you have any recommendations for reducing the amount of trial and error (and thus expense) required, or is it just simply a case of experimentation?

I shall have a look for those conditioners. I'm on the wrong side of the country for Home Bargains but we definitely have a Superdrug.

(Also, interesting about the Aqueous Cream. I'm prescribed one for glove-triggered eczema on the hands ... and yes, I just checked, mine contains SLS. It seems to work fine, though...)

Gentler shampoo or co-washing are fine, or alternating - you may find that helps your hands too, being sulphate free does for me. A lot of fine hairs do prefer shampooing, plus that gives you more flexibility with ingredients in conditioners. I'd look at reviews and the ingredients list, the betaines are more cleansing that the glucosides, the glucosides arguably the gentlest. You might hold off until you have a diagnosis, that might help you choose ingredients/ products.

A lot of shampoos can be used up as hand wash or shower gel if you don't like them - tho obviously not if you have a bad reaction! I have Naturallythinking extra mild sulphate free shampoo 'base' which I buy five litres at a time and use as shower gel, hand wash and the occasional clarify, pretty basic ingredients list which was the initial draw for me and the current incarnation is a skin and hair friendly acidic pH. It's not 'conditioning' but can be doctored, I don't know what it would be like for regular use - my mother seems content with it and her dermatitis is reduced about 50%. It might be out of your price range too, tho could easily be diluted down since it foams really well and is a very effective cleanser. I'm reviewing rather than recommending it IYSWIM since I have only used it as shampoo a few times and my hair MUCH prefers co-washing.
http://www.naturallythinking.com/products/Shampoo-SLS-free-Extra-Mild.html

I've had dermatitis and swollen eyes from gloves, it was the powder for me tho so luckily the solution was straightforward, boss ordered powder-free. Are you also using hand cleansers containing sulphate and/ or alcohol? Nightmare with that in my last hospital. NHS don't recommend aqueous cream as a moisturiser; it can act as a pre-sensitiser by thinning and dehydrating and irritating (micro level) the skin even if not obvious direct inflammation/ visible irritation. A product containing medical grade lanolin can be helpful, contains something approaching the balance of lipids found in the stratus corneum or precursors thereof.

Panth
September 18th, 2013, 01:27 AM
Gentler shampoo or co-washing are fine, or alternating - you may find that helps your hands too, being sulphate free does for me. A lot of fine hairs do prefer shampooing, plus that gives you more flexibility with ingredients in conditioners. I'd look at reviews and the ingredients list, the betaines are more cleansing that the glucosides, the glucosides arguably the gentlest. You might hold off until you have a diagnosis, that might help you choose ingredients/ products.

A lot of shampoos can be used up as hand wash or shower gel if you don't like them - tho obviously not if you have a bad reaction! I have Naturallythinking extra mild sulphate free shampoo 'base' which I buy five litres at a time and use as shower gel, hand wash and the occasional clarify, pretty basic ingredients list which was the initial draw for me and the current incarnation is a skin and hair friendly acidic pH. It's not 'conditioning' but can be doctored, I don't know what it would be like for regular use - my mother seems content with it and her dermatitis is reduced about 50%. It might be out of your price range too, tho could easily be diluted down since it foams really well and is a very effective cleanser. I'm reviewing rather than recommending it IYSWIM since I have only used it as shampoo a few times and my hair MUCH prefers co-washing.
http://www.naturallythinking.com/products/Shampoo-SLS-free-Extra-Mild.html

I've had dermatitis and swollen eyes from gloves, it was the powder for me tho so luckily the solution was straightforward, boss ordered powder-free. Are you also using hand cleansers containing sulphate and/ or alcohol? Nightmare with that in my last hospital. NHS don't recommend aqueous cream as a moisturiser; it can act as a pre-sensitiser by thinning and dehydrating and irritating (micro level) the skin even if not obvious direct inflammation/ visible irritation. A product containing medical grade lanolin can be helpful, contains something approaching the balance of lipids found in the stratus corneum or precursors thereof.

Thanks for the shampoo suggestions.

In my case I've been tested every which way and it seems to be simply that wearing gloves gives me eczema - it's not an allergy to latex, accelerators or powder. I luckily don't have to use alcohol cleansers. I generally use bar soap (currently nice eczema-friendly goat milk stuff) and am fine with that. One thing that was triggering (or, perhaps, sensitised to trigger) is lanolin - I had been using E45 to moisturise but lanolin came up as an irritant on my allergy tests. So, I got given about 5 different aqueous creams to try - funny, how a university thinks that is perfectly good but the NHS don't...