Henna mixed with hibiscus tea?

[minuvweyna]

Hi everyone,

I've been trying henna (I've done 4 applications now) and am having difficulty getting a red colour. With multiple applications the orange colour has darkened, but it is still orange, not red. I am using Jamilla henna, which I realise is noted for its orange tones, but I simply cannot find any other henna (I'm in the UK and thus cannot buy henna from Henna for Hair - the shipping costs are prohibitive) that seems to have any decent lawsome content (the first henna I tried was pathetic and gave me only a dirty dishwater orange colour). I am thus looking for ways to make the henna come up more red (orange is really not what I'm aiming for).

I have read that mixing the henna with hibiscus tea may result in a redder stain. Does anyone know if this works? There's really no way I could get too red or too burgundy a colour (I used to use a Feria dye, and really miss the dark berry colour I got from that). I'm trying to get as close to that colour with henna, though I know it will never really give me the colour I want. Does anyone have any advice for adding red tones (not brown) to the stain from Jamilla? Any advice would be very appreciated. I'd even try beetroot juice if I thought it would work - and boy would that smell awful!

Thanks!

Elle

[Nightshade]

Sadly hibiscus isn't nearly strong enough to give you what you're looking for. The vast majority of natural dyes just pale in comparison to the strength of henna and it takes a lot to alter it.

Your best bet might be to find something like Manic Panic in a blue-hued red shaded and go over your henna with that :) There's a lot of members that have done that and it isn't damaging at all.

Henna being henna, though, you're never going to get away from that orange flare in the sun.

[minuvweyna]

I've used Manic Panic - it looks lovely, but the constant bleeding on everything, pink sweat running down your face at the gym, staining towels and pillowcases at hotels or friends' homes - I just can't live with that. I tried Manic Panic over a henna dye and it washed out in just 2 or 3 days over my henna stained roots, so I don't seem to even be able to keep Manic Panic dye on after the henna.

Maybe it's time to just go black. Does indigo give a genuinely black colour after henna, or will it be greenish? A bit bluish is okay, as long as it isn't going to just give me navy blue hair... Should it go purple, I could handle that, but I doubt I'd be so lucky.

I must admit, trying henna has been the most uncomfortable, difficult and dispiriting hair experiment I've ever made. I genuinely wish I'd never tried it, but with my length of hair, growing it out would take at 3-5 years, so I think I'm committed now. I desperately need to find some way of salvaging this, so I don't hate my hair every time I catch a glimpse of myself in a mirror.

Everyone seems to say just dye over it again and again and again, but if that will still just be orange, I'm not sure that'll make any difference (and sleeping in henna 2 nights a week for the rest of my life sounds like torture).

You see photos (particularly on the henna for hair site) that make it seem like really really red colours are possible, but I wonder if they are photoshopped or something...

[Nightshade]

I could be photoshop or it just could be the lighting. It's hard to say, but a true ruby red is very, very hard to get because henna itself stains orange and not true red.

To be perfectly honest I'm not sure you'd be happier with indigo because as the indigo fades, and it does, you're going to have the henna red/orange shining through until you redo the indigo again, and if you find henna tedious I'm sure you'll not enjoy the two-step process you need to make henna and indigo black. :(

[minuvweyna]

Maybe it's time for the clippers and a wig. Henna is damned depressing stuff if one goes is with false expectations. I really feel Henna for Hair should be more honest about the impossibility to get actual red from henna. Had I realised it would be orange, I'd never have tried it in the first place.

Too late now...

[massivecnqstdr]

Some people seem to need even more than 4 applications to get red. I say just keep trying, and leave it on your head as long as you can stand it. If you want to cool down/brown up the color, you could add just a bit of indigo and amla to the mix. I realize that's not your ideal, though.

[Northerner]

I mix Jamila henna with hibiscus tea, and it is less orangey than when I used henna for the first time, even on my grays. I think it is more due to the build-up of repeat applications (about 10) and the fact that I use ayurvedic herbs for hair washes, which darkens hair and tones down the orange. Hibiscus is semi-permanent color. I used it in hair washes before I started using henna, and the red color would wash out after several washes ex. hibiscus. I think it is still the case with the hennaed hair, just less noticeable because of the darker tint from shikakai/ aritha/ bhringraj/ brahmi.

[Northerner]

Just an idea - you can try mixing henna with hibiscus tea, then use hibiscus tea rinses every time you wash your hair to prevent the red tint from washing out. Or just use the hibiscus rinses if you do not want to henna.

[minuvweyna]

Thank you so much for your advice, Northerner! You've given me a glimmer of hope. I know it'll never be proper red, but even if I can get it to be a more reddish orange, maybe that would be okay.

As the hibiscus is semi-permanent, did it come out on things (towels, pillowcases, shirt collars)? I always feel like my hair vanity shouldn't ruin my friends and relatives possessions should I stay with them. With Manic Panic I worried about sitting on my mother-in-law's cream sofa, and had to sleep on a towel to preserve her pillowcases. I utterly ruined a towel in a hotel when I first used it, which I still feel rather ashamed of, and then started taking my own towel with me to avoid a repeat. I guess I could let the hibiscus wash out and live with the orange for trips, but at least have redder hair when I'm at home (where little to nothing is white or even pale coloured - over the years, I've learned that my hair is no friend to light colours).

How strong do you brew the tea for mixing with the henna and for the rinses? I've never really used a hair rinse (other than a vinegar rinse for Manic Panic). I take it you pour that through last thing after washing/conditioning, and then towel dry it, or do you let it sit for some period or rinse it with water afterwards?

Sorry for the million questions, but I really want to try this, and get it right!

[Northerner]

Hibiscus did come out a bit on my shirt collar, but not every time. Maybe I did not rinse it out well. Or maybe it came out with oil, because I oil my scalp on a regular basis... I used 1 tbsp. of hibiscus per 1 cup and it was very strong, I usually diluted to 16 oz for the rinses, not for hennaing. I used it mostly on the scalp to strengthen the hair, not for the color. I had a pixie cut at that time, have not used hibiscus for 6 months since. Re: rinses: I let it sit for abt 15-20 minutes, then washed out. The first time I did not wash out, thinking that it is the same as a nettle/chamomile/rosemary rinse, the hair became very dry and crunchy when they dried out because hibiscus is quite acid.

[Nellon]

I added a little bit of indigo to my henna to get a more cool toned, deeper red. worked wonders for me! just saying :) Then I did roots only with the same mixture, to not get it darker and darker. Maybe worth considering? Good luck with whatever u try! oh, and start with only very little indigo mixed into the henna paste, as it's much easier to go darker than lighter!

[minuvweyna]

I'm going to try mixing the henna with strong hibiscus tea and do another couple root applications this weekend, and see if that comes out any redder (application 5 and 6 might help and hopefully the hibiscus might help a little too). Does anyone know about how long it should take to get dye release? Lemon juice took ages, probably 12-14 hours, but apple juice only about 8. I'm trying to decide if I should mix it and let it sit overnight or if that'll be too long. Thanks!

[Northerner]

It depends on the brand of henna. I mixed hibiscus tea with Three Rivers henna last weekend and the dye release was under 1 hour. Usually, dye release is 3-4 hours or less, except for Jamila which is 12 hours. Having said that, I had achieved good dye release in 3-4 hours even with Jamila and warm hibiscus or chamomile tea.

[minuvweyna]

Thanks, Northerner. I guess I'll go the patient route (as I have Jamilla to work with). I'll go for cold hibiscus tea and plan to let it sit about 12 hours before freezing, hopefully that will dye release well.

[minuvweyna]

I finally got round to doing another double-dye job. This time I used 100g henna, 300ml strong hibiscus tea and a few drops of cinnamon, nutmeg and sandlewood essential oils. I dyed my roots overnight on Saturday and again during the day Sunday.

The first dye was pretty disappointing on my roots, but I did have to use clarifying shampoo on it (which probably removed all the hibiscus pretty much) as I was going to henna again immediately. However, after the second dye session I was much happier with the results. It's still orange (it's never going to not be) but at least there is this strawberry tinge now, that really livens up the colour. I'm much happier with it, so I think I will keep trying to use this method to build up more layers. And I'll do some full length dyes to try to start blending it in to the red on my lengths more. Thank you so much, Northerner, for the advice about the hibiscus. I'm also going to try the rinses, which I figure I might need to do twice a week at least, as I shampoo daily.

I've been using Jamilla henna, but I do hear that some other types give a redder or darker stain than others. I cannot buy from Henna for Hair, but have used Henna Boy and would be willing to give Rennaisance Henna a try. Does anyone have any suggestions on what type of henna would be good to get dark and reddish stains, that can be sourced from those sites? It would be impossible for me to get too dark a stain - reddish black would be grand if that were possible (which I realise for my hair colour, it is not). Any more advice would be really appreciated!

Best regards,

Elle

[emilia1992]

Heya there!

I used to use Caca rouge from Lush. The trick there is not to add anything to the henna, but to wrap your hair in clingfilm and stay warm- this heat brings out the red tones. I didn't want to use clingfilm, so I popped on one of those disposable shower caps instead and that worked just the same :)

[bunnylake]

I use Red Raj from Henna Sooq (hennasooq.com) mixed with hibiscus powder (also from Henna Sooq) and my hair is like the color of wine. Then again, my starting color was dark brown... in the sun it flares a very very dark dark orange, almost pinkish purple at times. I've done several full head applications over the past year, all over night.
Maybe you just need more full head applications, left on for as long as you can stand it. Adding a little bit of indigo may be a good idea, but you'll have to remember the measurements you used for when you need to do your roots again. Manic Panic is also another great option, though it fades quickly in my experience. You could look into other types of safe dye, also. Good luck!

[ladonna]

I usually use godrej henna (off amazon.com) it comes with 8-9 other herbs, it made my dark brown hair really red, so red that people commented on it and is the only henna mixture that been easy and made my hair happy. I have been using henna for a couple years though and it took about 6 applications to really see results.

[minuvweyna]

Dear all,

Thanks for the replies. I do use cling film and then wrap it in a towel - it definitely gets really warm. I leave the henna on for a minimum of 8 hours each time, so I'm pretty sure my application time isn't too short.

Thank you for the henna suggestions, but unfortunately I live in the UK, all the sites recommended here seem to be US or Canada based, and I cannot buy from them (the shipping costs are just not doable). Does anyone have any suggestions of henna that can be sourced from UK suppliers or even continental European suppliers? I'm happy to take suggestions for new suppliers, I just can't pay to ship henna from another continent!

Thanks!

[bunnylake]

Dear all,

Thanks for the replies. I do use cling film and then wrap it in a towel - it definitely gets really warm. I leave the henna on for a minimum of 8 hours each time, so I'm pretty sure my application time isn't too short.

Thank you for the henna suggestions, but unfortunately I live in the UK, all the sites recommended here seem to be US or Canada based, and I cannot buy from them (the shipping costs are just not doable). Does anyone have any suggestions of henna that can be sourced from UK suppliers or even continental European suppliers? I'm happy to take suggestions for new suppliers, I just can't pay to ship henna from another continent!

Thanks!

Do you know of any Indian grocery shops in your area? They often carry henna and other herbs for hair.

[Oubli]

Hibiscus does work but it doesn't cling to the core of the hair like henna. I make some intensely strong hibiscus tea (more like a decoction), I powderize the hibiscus flowers in a coffee grinder, they are dense and it's labor intensive to do it with a mortar and pestle. I let 2 powdered oz of hibiscus steep in a Liter of boiled water for an hour and then mix what I need in my henna. Anything left over is chunked into my conditioner to keep the red as long as possible but to be fair hibiscus is pink, not red, granted it is very dark pink, so it helps cover the orange quite well but it is not red.
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/130/361/107/107361130_003.jpg
http://patientcircle.org/storage/800px-Hibiscus_sabdariffa_dried.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEV ERSION=1289181663756

Now if you really want red and do not want to use hair dyes, I do suggest a red protein filler. That will cover up the orange from the henna, if your not keen on being that shockingly red, you could always just put a bottle of red protein filler into your conditioner and let it subtly do its work every time you wash you hair.

Good luck!

[minuvweyna]

Oubli - I have no problem with shocking red, but I've never heard of a red protein filler. I take it that is a chemical product (ie probably full of PPD, which I am allergic to - that's the reason I've switched from chemical dyes to henna)? If not, how do protein fillers work?

I'll add some super strong hibiscus tea to my conditioner, and try the rinses to keep things redder (well pinker, but still less orange). Thanks for the extra advice!

[niky45]

As a cheap source of Rajasthani henna, try this:
http://www.ebay.es/itm/170854494554?var=470151231623&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

I have seen pretty RED (not orangey) results with Rajasthani henna in the "Show me your Red Raj" thread. It's supposed to be one of the reddest hennas out there.

However my experience it's not the same. Let me tell you the story: I'm naturally quite dark brown. I wanted a lighter color, so i would bleach my roots every time before henna. Then, I would do a full head henna application (I just love to henna). When mixed with plain hot (but not boiling) water, I reached a pretty bright color... but it was still ORANGE. As someone described their own orange here, it was Flamin' hot cheetos orange.

I really loved it (except for the HIGH maintenance... I'm quite lazy), but I wanted something redder. As in darker orange red, for example. I knew that I wouldn't be able to get pure red, but if I could just obtain a darker orange...

My last attempt was a mix with the following: some herbal tea (with hibiscus), black tea, some cloves, some apple juice (it has citric acid added), about 6 tsp henna, and 1 tsp indigo. Indigo is supposed to be blue, so i was expecting at least a cooler orange (whatever that means).

The result was a browner, darker orange. It was cooler than the henna and plain water mix, but not near red or dark orange red.

Before conclusions keep in mind: my roots (and previously all my hair), had been bleached, so the starting color was YELLOW. Not any kind of natural blonde. Doing some color math (whatever that is), if I'm starting with yellow I can't get something cool-based, whatever I try (I mean, red + yellow = orange, whatever you do).

So, for now I gave up and bought a boxed dye (just for this time, I promise, I'm in love with henna...), and my hair turned out a cool red.

TL DR; the starting color is everything. I don't know what your starting color is, but mine was YELLOW (my poor bleached hair... ), so I couldn't possibly get a true red. However, the henna origin helps. Rajasthani is supposed to be one of the redder hennas out there, and is CHEAP, so, perhaps you should try it (the 60g package i first ordered from there was actually 80g, and it lasted for two applications with my short pixie... ).

Also, some indigo can help toning down the orange, but I think it's too dark to achieve a true red with it. However, if you want a DARK red, it could be the way to go. There's also cheap indigo on ebay, just look around for it (or tell me and I will find it for you).

Also, you could try LUSH's hennas, some of them have indigo mixed.

But beware: indigo can't be bleached.... so add it little by little.

Oh, and another thing that I had read: If you want a blackish-red, you can do the two-step henndigo, BUT, applying first the henndigo (henna + indigo with much more indigo than henna), and then a round of plain henna.... It's supposed to give a quite reddish black.

PS: Oh. Yep. Sorry for the LOONG post (there's sooo much to tell...), and for my English. I'm still learning. ;)

[niky45]

(I don't know how to edit... but I came across this right a while ago)
http://hennablogspot.com/how-to-choose-the-right-henna-powder/

[About Rajasthani henna]The stains results are some of the darkest I have ever seen. Typically reddish tones (burgundy/mahogany) and sometimes near cherry black on skin. For hair it yields a reddish-burgundy tone. For hair usage, this powder we recommend you allow it to sit from 3-4 hours, and then apply onto your hair. It is triple sifted and through nylon cloth. On lighter hair it may come out more orange-copper toned.

[Catladyintown]

Hi Minuvweyna I also use Rajasthani henna. I have only done one application since I had my big cut in 2010.
So my natural color is pitch black with grays. And the Rajastani henna comes out a beautiful red.
My recipe is 3 cups Rajasthani, 2 cups Hibiscus tea strongly brewed, 1 cup of red wine.
I do not use any water or any lemon juice. I make sure the tea is warm and the red wine
is very warm. Then I left it on my hair for 10 hours. I just washed it out and put
some conditioner on, I only used conditioner once. But my grays come out a very deep burgundy red
with no orange at all. My black hair looks more blackish red also a deep burgundy. If you want to change
the color of henna from orange to red. I would highly suggest using wine. I like Sangria wine or a very
deep red wine. Next month I am going to order some beet root powder and see if that makes it a deeper
red also. HTH

[Magalo]

Thank you for the henna suggestions, but unfortunately I live in the UK, all the sites recommended here seem to be US or Canada based, and I cannot buy from them (the shipping costs are just not doable). Does anyone have any suggestions of henna that can be sourced from UK suppliers or even continental European suppliers? I'm happy to take suggestions for new suppliers, I just can't pay to ship henna from another continent!

Thanks!

Henna-boy is a UK based supplier. :)

[SleepyTangles]

Minuvweyna, have you ever heard of spicesofindia.co.uk? its an online shop of indian groceries and its much used by italian longhairs, because you can find henna, amla and all kind of oils.

They keep a BAQ henna called Zarqa (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/A1-Manzoor-Zarqa-Red-Henna-Powder.html#SID=3556), that's quite famous for giving strong wine red tones among italian henna heads.

Also, I've used Le erbette di Janas Cold-Toned Henna (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Erbette-di-Janas-Henn%C3%A8-Indigo-Cassia-Co/167019606696217?id=167019606696217&sk=app_144228972310103), and it gave me a very strong red colour with plummy undertones (I am a brunette), but you must check if Janas sells outside Italy. The results are well visible in my avatar...
My avatar shows quite well the colour I had (its an old photo :o).

[earthybee]

Hi Minuvweyna I also use Rajasthani henna. I have only done one application since I had my big cut in 2010.
So my natural color is pitch black with grays. And the Rajastani henna comes out a beautiful red.
My recipe is 3 cups Rajasthani, 2 cups Hibiscus tea strongly brewed, 1 cup of red wine.
I do not use any water or any lemon juice. I make sure the tea is warm and the red wine
is very warm. Then I left it on my hair for 10 hours. I just washed it out and put
some conditioner on, I only used conditioner once. But my grays come out a very deep burgundy red
with no orange at all. My black hair looks more blackish red also a deep burgundy. If you want to change
the color of henna from orange to red. I would highly suggest using wine. I like Sangria wine or a very
deep red wine. Next month I am going to order some beet root powder and see if that makes it a deeper
red also. HTH

I would love to see a photo. That sounds stunning!

[niky45]

I would love to see a photo. That sounds stunning!

+1 :)


I would highly suggest using wine.

I shall try wine next time, then.
(...It's gonna be hard to not rush NOW to the store to try this.... :rolleyes: )

[Catladyintown]

Earthybee I will try this week to take a picture. My son use to take hair pictures. But since he does not live with me
anymore it's hard to take pictures. Niky45 please tell us how your henna comes out. I believe the trick is in the wine.
You don't need lemons or limes when you use wine. Also I did not use any plain water, just very strong brewed tea.
P.S. I forgot to say I let all the Henna sit overnight, around 14 hours before I used it.

[niky45]

Will try this night with diluted wine. I've been looking around for pH values, and I think that wine's pH at about 3.5 can slow down the things a bit.

I mean, I have been trying many mixes in the past, and have found that acids slow down EVERYTHING, which is good if you are using henna on the skin since it will not demise that fast (i.e. the mix can last a few weeks in the fridge :p ), but it's not good if tomorrow I'll have to wake up soon and wash my hair whether henna has had enough time or not.

I mean, for tonight I don't mind if in 12 hours the dye has demised completely, since henna isn't going to be that long in my head. I think that's better that half of the lawsone being there after that may hours, waiting for some more time to actually bind to my hair...

Anyway, Rajasthani henna has a pretty high lawsone content, and I have found it sticks no matter what. So I'll give the wine a chance, knowing that lawsone will bind to my hair whatever the pH is. (And hoping that my now-box-red hair will get even redder... OMG. DO WANT. :D There's never too much red in my head, lol. I won't be dealing with a yellow base, so it will be hard not to succeed :D)

[earthybee]

I use red raj mixed with apple cider vinegar, red rooibos tea & cinnamon and a little red wine and some oils after dye release. I end up with a really dark red rich tone on my naturally dark brown hair.

[niky45]

Ok, so, next day.

Yesterday night I applied my henna. A mix with the following: wine, water, a bit of gelatin, some cinnamon, raj henna, and, some conditioner. It was most of an experiment, the conditioner was just for thinning the mixture (i like it kinda runny), so it didn't actually diluted it. The wine was the dark one, but i suppose it would work for cooling down the orange (I bought it because I wouldn't know what to do with red wine leftovers... :confused: ). The cinnamon was a try for lighter roots (I'm planning on going for a dark red, but I'm not quite sure henna alone can give me enough red without a little bit of lightening...), also it's supposed to give red tones (btw, it kinda worked at both things, yay :)). And, the bit of gelatin was just because I'm trying protein treatments, an a low-concentration but long one seemed a good idea (almost all the gelatin was left mixed with the watery-wine leftovers, though, so I really don't know if my hair saw any trace of it...)

So. I fought cinnamon's irritant properties all night (my scalp is still itchy, lol. But i sure know it will calm down in a few days, so no worries here), waked up, and CO-washed the henna (seriously, i have short hair, but rinsing henna is EASY. Just pour a lot of water, and in a few minutes it will start running clear, and by then, it's done. I COwashed just because I like to wash my hair after any kind of treatment just in case).

So... I saw it. Cheeto's orange again. However, I see myself better in warm colors, so I kinda liked it.

Then I went with my usual routine, and then went back to home. And looked at the mirror. OH. its not THAT orange now. its WAY redder, but still with that warm hue that i LOVE. I know, plain old oxidation. But it's actually the firts time I actually get to see it in my hair. :confused:

so... this is it. I know, I'm not good at selfies, lol.
http://s21.postimg.org/5lddnlyyr/2013_10_29_20_18_42.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5lddnlyyr/)
It actually looks WAY lighter and orangey-er in real life. Also, the lighting its not the best. But is all in can have right now. :rolleyes:

btw, the conditioner mixed in the henna has left my hair way better than in previous hennas. CO-washing also helps, but... after doing a cleansing wash before henna, I did by no means expected it to be THAT silky (... I can't find a better word right now... )