How do you know if your hair does not like protein?

[MeMyselfandI]

How do you know if your hair does not like protein?

I damaged my hair by chemical products. I did a henna. I plan on using some protein.

I have heard that after Henna protein does not work as well. How would I know if it was a bad idea doing a protein treatment/conditoner.

[Kirin]

I've witten an article about just this, but for some reason its not showing up in the article's section. Dont know why.

To make a long story short, you can try a protein product, but if your hair doesnt like it, you'll notice some of these things:

Hair becomes drier, and more fragile after using it, longer use of the item with protein makes the problem worse. If the product is a conditioner, even if you condition MORE or use more, the problem gets worse.

Hair feels like straw, very dry, easily broken, and haylike. It mats and tangles like crazy. the feel of your hair will seem foreign to you. Adding moisture but not ridding yourself of the protein product seems to do no good.

Protein "damage" isnt really damage, just a symptom of protein overload or sensitivity. Returning to a non protein regime and adding in more moisture for a time will correct the problem (can take up to a week or two weeks to get results).

Its fine to try protein, some hair LOVES it. but if you notice tangling, drying, matting or breakage, switch off and use something else, its the only way to know.

[Isilme]

some persons experience that henna and protein doesn't go well together. I think it has a lot to do with the hair though. My hair is sensitive to certain proteins and in certain products. It goes a bit stiff and dry, and can feel a bit buildupy. That's it.

[Celebrian]

I've witten an article about just this, but for some reason its not showing up in the article's section. Dont know why.

To make a long story short, you can try a protein product, but if your hair doesnt like it, you'll notice some of these things:

Hair becomes drier, and more fragile after using it, longer use of the item with protein makes the problem worse. If the product is a conditioner, even if you condition MORE or use more, the problem gets worse.

Hair feels like straw, very dry, easily broken, and haylike. It mats and tangles like crazy. the feel of your hair will seem foreign to you. Adding moisture but not ridding yourself of the protein product seems to do no good.

Protein "damage" isnt really damage, just a symptom of protein overload or sensitivity. Returning to a non protein regime and adding in more moisture for a time will correct the problem (can take up to a week or two weeks to get results).

Its fine to try protein, some hair LOVES it. but if you notice tangling, drying, matting or breakage, switch off and use something else, its the only way to know.

Thanks kirin. That's cleared a few things up for me! ;)

[Rory]

How can you tell if your poo or condish has a lot of protein in it? These symptoms sound like what is going on with my hair. What are some of the ingredients I should look for?

TIA
Rory

[spidermom]

How can you tell if your poo or condish has a lot of protein in it? These symptoms sound like what is going on with my hair. What are some of the ingredients I should look for?

TIA
Rory

It's pretty close to idiot proof - such ingredients usually contain the word PROTEIN, as in wheat protein, soy protein, silk protein. Also look out for the word "hydrolyzed." Also "milk" or "egg".

[Delilah]

I've found too that unless products advertise as being high protein that they usually don't have enough to matter. I have protein sensitive hair and frequently use a Honey Beer and Egg shampoo bar with no ill effects.

[Gumball]

I fell into some of those reactions on my hair when I've used products with protein. It got try, tangled and unbearable. Took me a few times to really learn that tidbit. It's all trial and error. :)

[tessleopard]

kirin - i wish i could access your article, i'm just now learning about protein...and how much my hair hates it. it's hideous, mats and tangles at the ends of otherwise healthy hair. i just purchased burt's bees super shiny grapefruit conditioner, as well as vo5 tea therapy. both of these are protein and 'cone free.

i am trying to move to a more natural haircare routine, including indian herbs. does cassia, unrefined shea, jojoba oil, and olive oil have enough protein in them to create an issue? what about soapnuts (aritha), or any of the other herbs?

thanks so much for your help!

[mahoganyhorizon]

I think the first person who answered this thread hit it dead on! It will feel dry, tangly, matted...it may feel as though it is "stuck together". I think my hair likes proteins in small amounts like silk protein, but anythign much further than that, and my hair wants to REVOLT! I mean freaking revolt! I had a protein conditioner I was using, and I liked it for a little bit, it seemed to make my hair stronger. But after a second application it actually MATTED MY HAIR! I mean severely so. And it took, like they said, a long time laying off of the protein, and adding moisture, moisture, moisture for my hair to come back around.

So for now I'm sticking with cholestorol and mild proteins.

[jojo]

Remember also that what hair likes one month, it can hate a month down the line. For me my hair used to love protein, it made it much more manageable and shiny, now it really hates it. My hair gets more tangly and looks dull when i use protein,I also notice more breakage and splits.

Therefore you need to re-evaluate your hair every.

[Teacherbear]

I don't like using protein on my hair. If/when I do my ends end up VERY dry and sharp. They feel like hundreds of tiny needles hitting my arm. My ends tangle a lot. I learned that if I over-protein my hair to NOT cut it. Washing it (preferably CWCC) normally for a week or so (2-5 washings) is sufficient in allowing my hair enough time to soften back up.

[tessleopard]

have to share - came across this while researching protein:

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=22392

i did not write this article, and i sincerely hope it's alright for me to share it here. i just couldn't believe how clear, concise, and helpful this article was, and thought others should see it.

i do still have questions about the protein-ness of certain things...cassia, soapnuts, jojoba, castor, and olive oils... and unrefined shea, indian herbs, etc...

*hint, hint...help!!* :eyebrows:

[RoseRedDead]

I don't like using protein on my hair. If/when I do my ends end up VERY dry and sharp. They feel like hundreds of tiny needles hitting my arm. My ends tangle a lot.

This. My ends get all dried out, my hair feels rather stiff in general, and I get psycho tangles. Pity that the first things I used for CO washing had protein, and I wasn't aware of the dislike. I think I'm still trying to my hair over it. :rolleyes:

[Arctic_Mama]

Yes, I have also found that if a shampoo or conditioner isn't specifically listed as strengthening or fortifying that the protein amounts are usually negligible

[Celebrian]

Hmmm. I've only just looked at the ingredients for my conditioner (Lush's Retread) and seen that it contains soya milk and organic yoghurt. My hair was loving it at first, but I've been puzzled by a 'needly' feeling as it hits my bare shoulders - and it kind of sticks together very easily a la velcro. Does that sound like protein overload?

Thing is, I did a B.S clarifying wash about 2 shampoos back, and it didn't solve it. I didn't do vinegar rinse afterwards. Could that be why?

Anyway, would another go at BS be worth trying?

[ungratefulgirl]

Is wheat protein bad for you hair, if it's just a tiny bit in shampoo?

[Arctic_Mama]

Protein isn't *bad*, per se, it is just that some people have hair that doesn't like it, where some hair drinks it up. It has little to do with damage and more to to with hair type... But very few people cannot take small amounts of protein, and it can be beneficial. But if you DO have funky hair that is dry or wiry then a protein overload is something worth investigating.

But if it ain't broke, don't fix it :). A teensy bit of protein (far down the ingredient list) isn't likely to be a culprit in most hair issues.

[juliaxena]

I have a question about TIgi Oatmeal and Honey conditioner. Here are the ingredients:

Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Persea Gratissima (Avocado Fruit Extract), Wheat Amino Acids, Quaternium-79 Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Oat Beta Glucan, Panthenol (Vitamin B5), Tocopherol, Buxus Chinensis (Jojoba Seed Extract), Stearalkonium Chloride, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben, Ethylparaben, Cetrimonium Bromide, Fragrance (Perfum), Mel l Santalum Album (Sandalwood Oil), Pogostemon Cablin (Patchouli Oil), Juniperus Communis, Cananga Odorata (Ylang Ylang).

Is this a strong protein treatment, no suitable for protein sensitive hair?

[Moonstruck]

Tessleopard - Any OIL should not really contain proteins. Think of it this way - if you eat a steak, all the oil (fat) is clumped into one area, and all the protein (muscle) is in the meat. If there are any proteins, they're trace amounts that ended up being there from lack of refinement, and shouldn't do much. Therefore, jojoba, castor, and olive oil are protein free. Shea butter has a little, I think, but its not significant.
Any PLANT matter can provide amino acids, but rarely provide protein complexes. The only time plant matter really has significant amounts of protein will be in their seeds - think of how vegetarians need to eat nuts and seeds for protein. Soy protein and wheat protein both come from their seeds (berries). Cassia and Indian herbs shouldn't really have any. Soapnuts probably do, but I honestly don't know much about them, so don't quote me on that.

Celebrian - that DOES sound like a protein overload. Can you try an SMT or something similar, a few times, and see if it goes away? If so, then it's the protein content. Not that you should throw the bottle away, but it probably should only be used every so often, maybe after you've done a heavy moisturizing treatment, or something like that.

Juliaxena - The 5th ingredient, 6th, 7th, and 9th (panthenol can often act LIKE a protein in certain cases) would indicate that yes, this conditioner is fairly strong on proteins. I'd consider it strong.

[Kirin]

Usually protein overload can be easily cured by a good moisture treatment, even cheap cholesterol treatments work really well (even if they contain scant protein in them, its weird). I have experimented with this a LOT, and found moisture, any moisture works, but oiling really doesn't. Just soak your head in something protein free and moisturizing for an hour or so and you'll start to see immediate improvement. Protein overload is a temporary condition, thank goodness.

Hair that needs protein? Usually hair that is in windy/salty enviornments a lot (think dock worker, out doors on beaches a-lot, stuff like this), or is chemically processed. I currently have cholesterol mixed with protein filler on my head now after a lightening job. Most hair does not need daily protein, not unless it is weathered or chemically abused daily.

[ericthegreat]

Well, my hair actually craves protein. I've done whole egg yolk treatments on my hair with astonishing results. My hair feels 3 times as strong after I've done a protein treatment. Many of the conditioners I use have wheat protein or soy protein or rice protein or milk protein or silk amino acids. Perhaps thicker hair requires more protein whereas finer hair doesn't need it as much.

[juliaxena]

Thanks Moonstruck althought the reply saddened me...I really love that conditioner.

[Moonstruck]

Juliaxena - if it works for you, it works! I wouldn't worry about the protein content UNLESS your hair is telling you that it doesn't want any more protein. =( I don't want you to be sad about it, unless your hair has recently told you that it's protein-y enough.

[Aditi]

My hair does not like commercial protein products so i just mix two eggs in my henna and after i wash out henna with plain water i apply yoghurt in my hair the next day and finally wash my hair out with shampoo and condish, this has really worked miraculous for my hair.

[juliaxena]

Moonstruck it did tell me, that's why I joined this forum. For a long time it was great for me, but then something happened, I am not sure what. Maybe it was Joico K-Pac Reconstructor. After that all my conditioners leave my hair rough and straw-like.

[redneckprincess]

what ingredent names is protine under?

[Moonstruck]

Oh, yeah, the Kpac reconstructor is a fairly strong protein treatment. Eventually though, your hair may want some protein again, so maybe you can save it for a special treat every so often if your hair is feeling soft and supple. Either way... at least you found LHC? Has your hair gone back to its normal condition yet?

Red neck princess - I'm not really sure what you're asking. Anything ingredient name that says protein, things with hydrolyzed wheat/soy, or animal products like silk, milk, eggs... all of those are protein.

[juliaxena]

Actually I think it's possible I haven't been using the right products for it for quite some time. I used protein treatments and over time my hair got worse but I'm not sure id that was the probelm. Then I used henna and it was awful. Then I used Joico on top of that again. I started using Tigi Moisture maniac but my hair is not back to pre-henna state yet.

[Fethenwen]

Wow this protein thing sure is a bit confusing :confused:

I would like to give a conditioner with wheat protein a go, because I found a conditioner that is biodegradable and also doesn't cost much. But is protein on CO routine a big no no?

I don't think my hair hates protein, I have used eggs and hair treatments with protein before with great results.

[juliaxena]

How about this one? That's Tigi Brunette Goddess

AQUA, CETEARYL ALCOHOL, GLYCERIN, STEARALKONIUM CHLORIDE, BEHENTRIMONIUM METHOSULFATE, PANTHENOL, DIMETHICONE, SIMMONDSIA CHINESIS (JOJOBA) SEED OIL, HYDROLYZED WHEAT PROTEIN, HYDROLYZED SOY PROTEIN, TOCOPHERYL
ACETATE, RETINYL PALMITATE, ASCORBYL PALMITATE, PHOSPHOLIPIDS, SODIUM RIBOFLAVIN PHOSPHATE, AMODIMETHICONE, TRIMETHYLSILOXYAMODIMETHICONE, CETRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM PCA, HYDROXYPROPYL GUAR, HYDROXYETHYLCELLULOSE, TRIDECETH-12,
C11-15 PARETH-7, C12-16 PARETH-9, PHENOXYETHANOL, METHYLPARABEN, PROPYLPARABEN, ETHYLPARABEN, BUTYLPARABEN, ISOBUTYLPARABEN, PARFUM, BENZYL BENZOATE, CITRIC ACID, DISODIUM EDTA, CARAMEL, CI 15510 (ORANGE 4).


I just can't figure out what my head needs anymore. Moisture Maniac makes my hair smooth for a while, it shines but it's not soft. It feels like fake hair. How can I soften it? And I tryed Oatmeal and Honey on a strand and it sucked. My hair is ruined and I want to cry :(

[Buddaphlyy]

How about this one? That's Tigi Brunette Goddess

AQUA, CETEARYL ALCOHOL, GLYCERIN, STEARALKONIUM CHLORIDE, BEHENTRIMONIUM METHOSULFATE, PANTHENOL, DIMETHICONE, SIMMONDSIA CHINESIS (JOJOBA) SEED OIL, HYDROLYZED WHEAT PROTEIN, HYDROLYZED SOY PROTEIN, TOCOPHERYL
ACETATE, RETINYL PALMITATE, ASCORBYL PALMITATE, PHOSPHOLIPIDS, SODIUM RIBOFLAVIN PHOSPHATE, AMODIMETHICONE, TRIMETHYLSILOXYAMODIMETHICONE, CETRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM PCA, HYDROXYPROPYL GUAR, HYDROXYETHYLCELLULOSE, TRIDECETH-12,
C11-15 PARETH-7, C12-16 PARETH-9, PHENOXYETHANOL, METHYLPARABEN, PROPYLPARABEN, ETHYLPARABEN, BUTYLPARABEN, ISOBUTYLPARABEN, PARFUM, BENZYL BENZOATE, CITRIC ACID, DISODIUM EDTA, CARAMEL, CI 15510 (ORANGE 4).


I just can't figure out what my head needs anymore. Moisture Maniac makes my hair smooth for a while, it shines but it's not soft. It feels like fake hair. How can I soften it? And I tryed Oatmeal and Honey on a strand and it sucked. My hair is ruined and I want to cry :(

Those are the protein.

ETA: Something I noticed while ready the thread is that no one seems to have followed their protein treatment with a moisture treatment IMMEDIATELY afterwards. Protein treatments have to be followed with a moisture treatment of the same "weight" in order to see the benefit. If you just use the protein and no moisture treatments (or wait a while) you will have problems.

[Moonstruck]

Featherwen - it's not too confusing, you just need to think about it like this. My body likes the weather when it's around 70 degrees out. Heat can be nice, but TOO much heat (like high 90s up to 100s) make your body feel sweaty and gross and miserable. Too much cold, and you get chilly and sick easily and sluggish.
Hair is the same way. It NEEDS both moisture and protein to stay healthy. If you're damaging your hair a lot, it'll need protein to fix it back up - makes it stronger, fills in some gaps, holds the strand together. Moisture does the opposite - makes it luscious and soft, supple/bendy, more silky. Too much of the first and your hair gets hard and strawlike and often snappy. Too much of the other, and your hair gets overly soft and almost floppy and overly stretchy.

juliaxena - Moisture Maniac (Also the TIGI one, I'm assuming) should help moisturize your hair back up. Honestly, it's always easier to fix overmoisturizing rather than over protein-ing, so it may take a few times before your hair feels like normal again. Because you've been using protein for a WHILE, it may take several moisture treatments (or continual use of a moisturizing conditioner) to bring your hair back to its pre-henna state. You may also want to make sure that your shampoo doesn't have too much protein. This Thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) has a good hair treatment to restore moisture, and also lists conditioners underneath that have little/no protein in them.

[juliaxena]

I sound like a Tigi commercial huh? Except for the "it sucks" part. I mention these because they are the easiest for me to get. You won't believe me but in my country there are no brands you guys mention in this forum. Also there is no knowledge about hair like you guys have. So if I started giving your advice in my country, I'd be a pioneer and make a lot of money :D

[redcelticcurls]

what ingredent names is protine under?

I'm doing a copy/paste from a recent blog post that may help you out. It's good to know how to find them, just in case.



Another common question is: “How do I know if my product has a protein?”

While the list of proteins can be lengthy, there are a few simple guidelines to help you find them

If an ingredient says protein, it’s a protein. I know it seems obvious, but people do ask.

If it says “amino acid” then it will act like protein on your hair. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein.

Just about any ingredient that has the word “hydrolyzed” before it will be a protein. Hydrolyzed itself does not mean protein, but hydrolyzation in conditioner world often means that a large protein has been broken down into a smaller one to make the protein more easily used by the hair. Hydrolyzed wheat, soy, and silk are common.

Plant extracts. Plants contain protein, and so do their extracts. This category is not as commonly problematic as hydrolyzed grains, but they still do bother some. One high protein treatment I have seen is essentially a long list of grass extracts!

Plant oils, when properly processed, should be protein free. Look at any nutrition label of any 100% oil. You’ll see that there is no protein. Some natural websites that sell wheat germ oil claim that wheat germ oil contains proteins. An article by the Curl Chemist addresses this.

Coconut oil. Although it does not contain protein, coconut oil has been shown to reduce protein loss in hair. For some, this acts just like having protein buildup on hair. Coconut milk contains actual protein.

Jojoba oil is technically a liquid wax and may contain small amounts of protein.

[redcelticcurls]

Wow this protein thing sure is a bit confusing :confused:

I would like to give a conditioner with wheat protein a go, because I found a conditioner that is biodegradable and also doesn't cost much. But is protein on CO routine a big no no?

I don't think my hair hates protein, I have used eggs and hair treatments with protein before with great results.

No, it's only a no-no if you react to it or your protein/moisture balance gets upset.

Stereotypically, fine hair can take more protein than coarse hair (which has a lot of its own protein already built-in), so you may just love that conditioner. Of course, YMMV.

[Fethenwen]

Ok, thanks for the advice. I think I will give this conditioner with protein in it a go, and see how it goes.

[juliaxena]

Ok, I have a small update. It's been three weeks since my henna disaster and I treated my hair with Moisture maniac 9 times. I felt it didn't give me enough nourishment though so I tryed Brunette Goddess and this seems better. How can it be? It has protein and I'm sure my hair hates protein. Does it have something extra nourishing or maybe it's not very heavy on proteins? I posted ingredients a few posts back. I just don't want to get my hopes up if this turns out not as good as it seems now.

[adiapalic]

I've witten an article about just this, but for some reason its not showing up in the article's section. Dont know why.

To make a long story short, you can try a protein product, but if your hair doesnt like it, you'll notice some of these things:

Hair becomes drier, and more fragile after using it, longer use of the item with protein makes the problem worse. If the product is a conditioner, even if you condition MORE or use more, the problem gets worse.

Hair feels like straw, very dry, easily broken, and haylike. It mats and tangles like crazy. the feel of your hair will seem foreign to you. Adding moisture but not ridding yourself of the protein product seems to do no good.

Protein "damage" isnt really damage, just a symptom of protein overload or sensitivity. Returning to a non protein regime and adding in more moisture for a time will correct the problem (can take up to a week or two weeks to get results).

Its fine to try protein, some hair LOVES it. but if you notice tangling, drying, matting or breakage, switch off and use something else, its the only way to know.

This is exactly what happened to my hair when I was using an enzyme-filled leave'in conditioner. I never knew it was because of the proteins until recently though. Glad to know!

[Buddaphlyy]

Ok, I have a small update. It's been three weeks since my henna disaster and I treated my hair with Moisture maniac 9 times. I felt it didn't give me enough nourishment though so I tryed Brunette Goddess and this seems better. How can it be? It has protein and I'm sure my hair hates protein. Does it have something extra nourishing or maybe it's not very heavy on proteins? I posted ingredients a few posts back. I just don't want to get my hopes up if this turns out not as good as it seems now.

Your hair may not hate protein but it seems you may not know how to use it (or you may not know how to use different ones). Your problem also may be what I was trying to say in my previous post, you waited too long to try to balance the protein from the henna. Not sure if you used any maintenance moisture products in addition to the 9 Moisture Maniac treatments, but you actually could have been tipping your balance too far on the moisture side and using the protein conditioner like the Brunette Goddess helped put a little protein back.

Also, something I have noticed in my experience, some hair products are already balanced for your needs. For example, I have found that my needs about a 1:3 part ratio of protein to moisture in order to stay balanced and some products that are marketed as protein based or have proteins in the ingredients also have enough moisturizers so that my hair is strengthened and moisturized at the same time. This is also what I was trying to describe when I said protein and moisture treatments have to be of similar "weight" in order to be effective.

[AmyJorgensen]

How will you know protein is not right for you? Well, your hair will inexplicably become demonic and you will be so frustrated you will seriously consider setting it on fire. You will come running to the LHC and moaning,"What did I ever do to deserve this? HELP!!!"

Can you tell protein is not right for me?

[juliaxena]

Buddaflyy it's true that I'm confused about these things. O&H used to be simply perfect for me, until I started using protein treatments. I'm not a total angel, I do dye my hair, but not with the most harsh dyes. I still figured i HAD to use proteins but I guess my hair was not that damaged at all. Then my hair was getting worse so I thought henna would finally fix it, well, it ruined it. When I started thinking and searching for info it was to late.

Anyway, my hair still hates O&H now, so it's not back to how it was. BG is more rich in consistency, I mean more creamy but I guess it's less proteiny than O&H. I hope it will be fine for a while. Maybe in time O&H will work well for me again...but who knws if it's a good thing. Just moisture definately isn't enough for me...Maybe it's the silicone in BG that makes a difference.

How do you know what state your hair is really in? When you clarify it? Or does clarifying just strip it and makes it look worse than it is.

[Moonstruck]

Aww Amy, haha! That sounds horrifying! At least you know why now?

Clarifying strips off most stuff on your hair. This does include moisture. So oftentimes, people's hair DOES look terrible after clarifying. However, if you have a significant amount of buildup (silicones, salt and brine, general gook), that's what will end up getting taken off first. Think of it as a super strong shampooing. It's often recommended so that you can start with a very clean slate for a lot of haircare regimes.
Have you tried just a normal cholesterol deep treatment? Silicones can hide damage but won't fix it, so that may be why BG seems like it's working better. BG is less proteiny, so that might also be why.
What country are you in, if you don't mind sharing? There are lots of brands that are available pretty much everywhere, and if anything, I would have guessed that TIGI was RARE! It's not that common in the stores around me, at least.

[Flynn]

If your hair does want a titchy bit of protein, is (unrefined) coconut oil likely to be able to provide it? (I use the somewhat stodgy-looking, strong-smelling $2.50-a-litre-at-the-Indian-grocery-shop yellow stuff, not the pretty pristine processed $8-a-jar healthfood shop white stuff.)

[juliaxena]

I can get Tigi easily because my sister helps out in a salon. She gets it really cheap. I'm from Croatia. What we have in stores is L'oreal, Garnier, Schwartkopf, Dove, Head and Shoulders, Herbal Essences, Nivea, sometime Guhl and Keune...stuff like that. Nothing particulary good. Often a product would have the sam name but different ingredients or a diferent name. And we don't get the whole range of those brands. I have never heard of cholesterol treatment for hair and I bet we don't have that here. I use sulphate shampoo so I don't really worry about silicones. It's otherwise not harsh one, has moisturising stuff to compensate for sulphates. So silicones are not really my problem.

[chickpea]

If your hair does want a titchy bit of protein, is (unrefined) coconut oil likely to be able to provide it? (I use the somewhat stodgy-looking, strong-smelling $2.50-a-litre-at-the-Indian-grocery-shop yellow stuff, not the pretty pristine processed $8-a-jar healthfood shop white stuff.)

There is no protein in coconut oil. What it can do is to prevent protein loss, but whether that's enough depends on the condition of your hair.

[wimitlee]

I have protein overload on the last 3/4 inch of my hair. Reading through this thread has been helpful but what can I specifically do to restore moisture to my crunchy ends?

Thank you for your help:-)