clarifying, moisturizing, and protein-ing

[emilyann]

We need a verb for "to protein."

I have been trying to baby the last 8 inches or so of damaged hair from old highlights for the last 6 months or so. I've just been experimenting, really, and find that I can't keep doing the same thing for too long on my 1c/2a, medium, ii hair. It just gets too accustomed to my new tricks!

What has been working best is clarifying ALL the hair from root to tip with V05 or Suave clarifying shampoo, then conditioning the ever-loving crap out of it with a super coney conditioner - "Herbal Essences Honey I'm Strong." Sometimes I even follow that with a coney detangler product, "Aterna Bamboo smooth anti-breakage heat protectant." I try to clarify no more than once every week or two because the mechanical damage alone freaks me out, not to mention all the bad chemicals in both products. However, this makes my hair glossy, thick, and keeps it fairly detangled without much effort.

If I did that more than once a week, I wouldn't be able to stretch my washes to 3-4 days because it would strip my hair too much. I try to CWC or CO the other washes during the week. CWC works okay, but for the sake of cost, the only shampoo I have is the clarifying shampoo, and a keratin shampoo (more on that in a minute). It's probably not as gentle as it should be! I use Renpure cleansing conditioner for my first C, then V05/Suave, then the Herbal Essences conditioner. Sometimes it feels great, sometimes it feels limp and greasy.

I actually tried the Renpure the way it's meant this morning, as a CO wash, and the ends of my hair feel like there is no protein in them at all, tangly, and dry. They aren't breaking off or anything, but they feel awful.

Anyway, can anyone tell me if I'm using the wrong kind of products for my hair type? I would love to CO almost all the time, but I'm still a little too greasy for that; haven't found a conditioner I like that doesn't leave my hair looking limp and greasy. Must be the cones?

My other question regards protein treatments. I have a bottle of Kerapro restorative shampoo. I haven't used much of it because I don't want to over-protein the healthy hair nearer my scalp. However: If I'm using coney conditioners, and need to clarify after a few washes, should I use the keratin shampoo after the clarifying shampoo? I don't want to damage my hair with too much shampoo, but I don't want the cones to prevent the keratin from doing its job.

Thoughts? I do know to moisturize the heck out of my hair after keratin treatments, at least :) Thanks for all the good advice so far, LHC!

[emilyann]

So here is my hair on day 3 after a CO wash. I had it in a dutch braid all day yesterday and slept on it, and combed it out a few minutes ago.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/9515423223_45f6e9a540.jpg

It's SO oily at the roots! And like, 4-5 inches down my head is straight up oil slick. The parts of my hair that had been highlighted previously just feel dry and almost crumbly. I'm trying to take good care of it but I'm afraid I'm getting nowhere. I really can't stand the thought of chopping all the old highlights out! If I chop above shoulder length I may never get it back to where it is. This is FIVE YEARS OF GROWTH.

Any tips on babying 1b/2a, M, ii hair that has some damage and grows slowly? Please and thank you!

[meteor]

I think your hair is beautiful! :) No need to cut those ends! They have a very different texture and need a very different hair care routine, that's all.
You know the type of hair that's called "combination"? Oily roots and dry ends? Well, people who grow out dye have an extreme version of that. Individual hair strands that are bleached are much thinner than virgin hair.
I am also growing out highlights and the things that help me are regular protein treatments, heavy coney conditioner on ends, lots of oil on ends and shampooing only the scalp and heavily conditioning only the highlighted ends. CWC and SMT+oil work very well.
I do think protein treatments are useful for bleached hair, because bleached hair is artificially porous and the cuticle / cortex structure is compromised.
I also like using lots of cones on bleached ends and clarifying from time to time.

[Leeloo]

Have you tried using coconut oil on dry hair for 12 hours or so (overnight)?

[emilyann]

Thanks meteor! I will try keeping the cones on the dryer portions. I liked doing CWC so I guess I'll get a gentler (non-clarifying) shampoo for those days. I just washed it with clarifying shampoo, then washed the dry ends with keratin shampoo, then used a non-cone conditioner (the shea moisture brand). It's still drying but my scalp feels sooo much better. I'll take another pic once it's dry.

Leeloo - haven't done the coconut oil in a while! I never sleep with it in my hair because I don't want it all over my pillow, but I may buy a shower cap or sleep cap or something. Is that what people use when they sleep in oiled hair? Or am I just pickier? :D

[Firefox7275]

We need a verb for "to protein."

I have been trying to baby the last 8 inches or so of damaged hair from old highlights for the last 6 months or so. I've just been experimenting, really, and find that I can't keep doing the same thing for too long on my 1c/2a, medium, ii hair. It just gets too accustomed to my new tricks!

What has been working best is clarifying ALL the hair from root to tip with V05 or Suave clarifying shampoo, then conditioning the ever-loving crap out of it with a super coney conditioner - "Herbal Essences Honey I'm Strong." Sometimes I even follow that with a coney detangler product, "Aterna Bamboo smooth anti-breakage heat protectant." I try to clarify no more than once every week or two because the mechanical damage alone freaks me out, not to mention all the bad chemicals in both products. However, this makes my hair glossy, thick, and keeps it fairly detangled without much effort.

If I did that more than once a week, I wouldn't be able to stretch my washes to 3-4 days because it would strip my hair too much. I try to CWC or CO the other washes during the week. CWC works okay, but for the sake of cost, the only shampoo I have is the clarifying shampoo, and a keratin shampoo (more on that in a minute). It's probably not as gentle as it should be! I use Renpure cleansing conditioner for my first C, then V05/Suave, then the Herbal Essences conditioner. Sometimes it feels great, sometimes it feels limp and greasy.

I actually tried the Renpure the way it's meant this morning, as a CO wash, and the ends of my hair feel like there is no protein in them at all, tangly, and dry. They aren't breaking off or anything, but they feel awful.

Anyway, can anyone tell me if I'm using the wrong kind of products for my hair type? I would love to CO almost all the time, but I'm still a little too greasy for that; haven't found a conditioner I like that doesn't leave my hair looking limp and greasy. Must be the cones?

My other question regards protein treatments. I have a bottle of Kerapro restorative shampoo. I haven't used much of it because I don't want to over-protein the healthy hair nearer my scalp. However: If I'm using coney conditioners, and need to clarify after a few washes, should I use the keratin shampoo after the clarifying shampoo? I don't want to damage my hair with too much shampoo, but I don't want the cones to prevent the keratin from doing its job.

Thoughts? I do know to moisturize the heck out of my hair after keratin treatments, at least :) Thanks for all the good advice so far, LHC!

Conditioner only should cleanse your hair as well as shampoo, if you don't use ingredients that build up and your technique is good. Are you using plenty of product and massage, working up a light 'lather', rinsing until your hair is squeaky with yet more massage? Renpure probably is not intended to be used over the top of super coney heat protectants nor as part of a CWC routine, you may simply have just caused build up if you did that. Shea butter can also build up and does not really penetrate.

Hydrolysed protein is great for damaged ends, but it's generally needed in a balance with other ingredients or may build up. Also useful are coconut oil to reduce the porosity and increase the elasticity, ceramides, 18-MEA and panthenol to patch repair the surface - all these ingredients will penetrate to some extent. There is a point where even these cannot sufficiently patch repair the damage, the only option is silicones or a trim. Silicones will not penetrate but will bind to the same damaged points as hydrolysed protein, ceramides etc. so you can't really get full benefit from all of them.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:u4t-bxsQGwkJ:www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/mineral-oil-versus-coconut-oil-which-is-better
The studies on coconut oil used long process times (12 to 24 hours) on dry hair, one used heat and got additional results, many of us use the heat of our head by wearing a shower cap or suchlike.

IMO don't try to use a shampoo as a protein treatment because that is not what it is, just use it to cleanse your hair: the very act of washing causes protein loss, strips structural lipids from the hair and exhausts the cuticle (hygral fatigue) so it's counterproductive. You could probably use that protein shampoo to clarify, the only silicone it contains is one that resists building up and both its main surfactants can cleanse away silicone build up.
http://www.curlynikki.com/2012/03/indepth-look-at-porosity.html

If you want to do a hydrolysed protein treatment either use gelatin or a Colorful neutral protein filler from Sallys or a protein rich conditioner and use it right after clarifying, these should be much more potent than a shampoo. Do a reasonably long process time ideally with some heat so that the protein has the chance to penetrate not simply stick to the surface.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/protein-conditioners-for-hair-part-2-of_03.html

[Firefox7275]

So here is my hair on day 3 after a CO wash. I had it in a dutch braid all day yesterday and slept on it, and combed it out a few minutes ago.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/9515423223_45f6e9a540.jpg

It's SO oily at the roots! And like, 4-5 inches down my head is straight up oil slick. The parts of my hair that had been highlighted previously just feel dry and almost crumbly. I'm trying to take good care of it but I'm afraid I'm getting nowhere. I really can't stand the thought of chopping all the old highlights out! If I chop above shoulder length I may never get it back to where it is. This is FIVE YEARS OF GROWTH.

Any tips on babying 1b/2a, M, ii hair that has some damage and grows slowly? Please and thank you!

IMO concentrate on effectively cleansing the virgin root area and effectively patch repairing the lengths, good cleansers should cleanse gentle without bothering to deposit (that can cause build up) and your conditioners/ treatments should patch repair and provide slip and softness, ideally without causing build up that needs regular harsh cleansing. It's like the two are confused in your routine.

Your cleansing products are either overly harsh, so risk irritating the scalp and causing extra sebum production, damaging the lengths when you cleanse those, or overly 'moisturising'/ depositing instead of concentrating on nothing but gentle cleansing. No shampoo is every going to be conditioning or protein treat your hair, that is marketing nonsense, many will do as much harm as good especially on weakened hair so the less you shampoo the lengths the better.

There are silicones that don't build up to the extent of the ones commonly found in heat protectants - the water soluble ones (PEG-) and amino ones (eg. amodimethicone). Other ingredients that can build up so need harsh shampoos include butters, waxes including cetyl esters, petrolatum/ mineral oil, some polyquats. The ingredients proven to penetrate and patch repair damage (coconut oil, hydrolysed protein, ceramides, 18-MEA, panthenol) are all water soluble or can be removed from your lengths with conditioner washing. I use Inecto and my hair is squeaky clean, it doesn't leave deposits that build up.

[emilyann]

Wow, THANK YOU for the links and the science! I think I have a much better idea of what I need to do for my hair. Sigh...too bad I didn't study chemistry!

I took an "after one keratin shampoo treatment, which I now know to be pretty much useless" picture:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/9519685168_bb84024caf.jpg

I little less flyaway and dry, but that might be because I clarified all the old cones out of it. It's mostly dry in this pic, another 20 minutes or so and it would be, but I was impatient.

So ApHOGEE seems to be highly recommended. 2-step protein treatment (for salon use, it says) or keratin 2-minute reconstructor?

I'm open for brand recommendations if anyone has any. I will keep trying the CWC with gentler shampoo (and not RenPure, I'm pretty much over that stuff...). Recommendations for gentle shampoo and low-deposit conditioner would be amazing! Firefox7275, do you use Inecto shampoo and conditioner, or just conditioner?

[meteor]

Thanks meteor! I will try keeping the cones on the dryer portions. I liked doing CWC so I guess I'll get a gentler (non-clarifying) shampoo for those days. I just washed it with clarifying shampoo, then washed the dry ends with keratin shampoo, then used a non-cone conditioner (the shea moisture brand). It's still drying but my scalp feels sooo much better. I'll take another pic once it's dry.

Leeloo - haven't done the coconut oil in a while! I never sleep with it in my hair because I don't want it all over my pillow, but I may buy a shower cap or sleep cap or something. Is that what people use when they sleep in oiled hair? Or am I just pickier? :D

I just saw your second picture, and WOW - the difference is amazing! :D I can't believe you were considering a chop. I think your hair liked a good clarifying wash + a bit of protein and good conditioner.

And I cannot recommend oiling damaged hair enough! I would recommend coconut, olive and avocado because they are penetrating and rich. Olive works best on my dyed highlights. If you oil your hair a few hours before going to sleep, then braid or bun it, usually it will be absorbed in your hair, not on the pillow, unless the amount of oil used is unreasonable. I don't like sleeping with sleep caps and I never had an issue.

[Firefox7275]

Wow, THANK YOU for the links and the science! I think I have a much better idea of what I need to do for my hair. Sigh...too bad I didn't study chemistry!

I took an "after one keratin shampoo treatment, which I now know to be pretty much useless" picture:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/9519685168_bb84024caf.jpg

I little less flyaway and dry, but that might be because I clarified all the old cones out of it. It's mostly dry in this pic, another 20 minutes or so and it would be, but I was impatient.

So ApHOGEE seems to be highly recommended. 2-step protein treatment (for salon use, it says) or keratin 2-minute reconstructor?

I'm open for brand recommendations if anyone has any. I will keep trying the CWC with gentler shampoo (and not RenPure, I'm pretty much over that stuff...). Recommendations for gentle shampoo and low-deposit conditioner would be amazing! Firefox7275, do you use Inecto shampoo and conditioner, or just conditioner?

Are those your natural waves? If so have you tried/ considered the Curly Girl method?

Just Inecto conditioner for my co-wash, I am not just sulphate free but shampoo free: been growing out old colour and mechanical damage myself, my hair was seriously porous and breaking when I started, so much healthier now even tho I still colour. If I used shampoo I'd try Komaza Care Moja shampoo.

[emilyann]

Yes, those are my natural waves in the second one. Definitely never considered my hair to be curly! But I will look into that method.

Wasn't considering a chop, was more dreading a chop! I have a very light amount of coconut oil on the hair from the ears down, it seems to feel a little better now.

[lapushka]

IMO it needs moisture, moisture, moisture, that means a lot of conditioner. There's absolutely no shame in conditioning twice, as illustrated by the CWC method. We use it here, but in kind of the reverse order. First a nice harsh sulfate shampoo (clarifying), followed up by conditioning twice, a leave-in, some serum (and gel for styling).

[YamaMaya]

So here is my hair on day 3 after a CO wash. I had it in a dutch braid all day yesterday and slept on it, and combed it out a few minutes ago.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/9515423223_45f6e9a540.jpg

It's SO oily at the roots! And like, 4-5 inches down my head is straight up oil slick. The parts of my hair that had been highlighted previously just feel dry and almost crumbly. I'm trying to take good care of it but I'm afraid I'm getting nowhere. I really can't stand the thought of chopping all the old highlights out! If I chop above shoulder length I may never get it back to where it is. This is FIVE YEARS OF GROWTH.

Any tips on babying 1b/2a, M, ii hair that has some damage and grows slowly? Please and thank you!

It's not all as grim as that. If you grew it once, you could do it again. Obviously it's up to you what you do, but if you're willing to wait another 5 years, you could get the length back after a chop.

[emilyann]

Thanks ladies! I happened to be at TJs yesterday so I bought some Tea Tree Tingle to try a CO wash. I really massaged my scalp and then rinsed for way longer than usual, massaging it out of my hair under the water the same way I massaged it in. My hair actually feels clean!! I also found an unused bottle of Suave green apple conditioner in the other bathroom :) So I think I'm going to give CO washes a good 2 month try. My hair isn't any less tangly right now, but it probably needs time to rebuild moisture in the ends before that problem stops. I am still interested in trying the Inecto, it sounds perfect. Also Suave coconut conditioner, since it helps with under-proteined hair.

So I think I have my arsenal, ladies! I will try to keep posting some transition and after pictures to document changes in my hair here.

Here's today (still sliiiightly wet). I tried some CG drying methods but my hair may not be revived enough to show a big difference yet :)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5457/9540986088_9eb863620a.jpg

Then this happened, because it always seems to happen, lol:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5443/9540986214_cf6b57d9d6.jpg

[jacqueline101]

I agree try the curly girl method or wash the roots and in between time use a dry shampoo.