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EllisGurl
September 1st, 2008, 03:44 PM
I've been thinking about cutting for waaaay more than two weeks. I haven't done it because I haven't gotten to the point that I'm sure I want to do it.

As I say, I'm tired of it. It has been a long hard road getting from where I started (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=7816) when I came to LHC to where I am now. My hair looked horrible and I think if I cut, part of me will feel like I put in all that time and effort for nothing.

Without trying to be conceited, I know my hair is pretty now and I know I have thickness that some people wish for. But it's so frustrating!!!! I have combed the style threads and have tried all of the ones I find even halfway interesting and I can't do any of them. I don't have enough length to wrap around the thickness! To give you some idea, this is the closest I can get to an infinity bun (clickable):

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f46/EllisGurl/Hair%20Pics/th_infinity8-08.jpg (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f46/EllisGurl/Hair%20Pics/infinity8-08.jpg)

Which brings me to another problem, I can't seem to find anything that will actually hold my hair. My hair now slides out of my mamma smurf screws, the fork in the above pic slides out as do my amish pins. I can make it maybe an hour or two before I feel a pin hit my shoulder or the fork and all my hair come tumbling down--usually at a less than opportune moment.

This is not how I envisioned having long hair. I hate things the way they are.

For the record, I have considered and discarded the idea of keeping the length and just getting some long layers. I don't like the way my hair looks like that.

Please don't be offended by this but if you only plan to write "don't cut!" then don't reply. Whilst I appreciate all the encouragement, it's not what I am looking for with this thread.

I need suggestions!!! I need ideas!! I want to put my hair up some other way that a braid but it must be secure. My job is somewhat physical and I need to be confident that I'm not going to have to stop and re-do my do.

I am going to make an appointment with my stylist for next week. I doubt I will cut then but I have been self trimming for over two years and feel the need to have someone else trim it once to be sure the ends are even and such. I do plan on talking to her about some styles though.

Gumball
September 1st, 2008, 03:54 PM
Hmm. For styles have you thought about doing half-ups? Or maybe if you like the figure eight/infinity buns try dividing your hair into two sections horizontally like you're going to do a half-up, but instead do two infinity buns? Maybe the length will be more forgiving then because you'll be using half the thickness on each of them? It could also look pretty fancy, too. :) Also there may be some braided styles that may work, whether it's just one braid or numerous braids pinned up somehow.

Slippery hair can become troublesome I'm sure. If that is part of it I've heard of using just a little bit of aloe gel to add some traction to hair before handling it. I've actually used it when braiding a friend's hair (hers is slippery sometimes) and it worked pretty well then.

ETA: I'm sure added traction would help hold pins and the like in, too.

spidermom
September 1st, 2008, 03:57 PM
If there are any styles that you like from my photo album, I'd be happy to work with you (instructions and pictures) in learning how to do a version of them. I think we're similar in thickness, and my hair is incredibly slippy-slidey, leading to a lot of frustration, but I've got a few things figured out now, so I'm happy with my growing hair and have no desire to cut it.

Blueglass
September 1st, 2008, 03:59 PM
Well, EllisGurl if your really that ungrateful, maybe you should cut off the hair and send it to me in cause I ever need a wig. Or you could send it to Pantene Beautiful Lenghts, Wigs for kids, or even the much malignee LOL. Really very nice. Maybe you should learn to french braiding.

DecafJane
September 1st, 2008, 04:21 PM
How about two Ficcares? I don't know if my hair is as thick as yours is, but I can understand how frustrating it must be. I hope you can find something that works.
Can you get a large hair slide/leather barrette made up so that you can wear your hair at the base of your neck?

FrannyG
September 1st, 2008, 04:25 PM
Well, EllisGurl if your really that ungrateful, maybe you should cut off the hair and send it to me in cause I ever need a wig. Or you could send it to Pantene Beautiful Lenghts, Wigs for kids, or even the much malignee LOL. Really very nice. Maybe you should learn to french braiding.

What the heck is this supposed to mean? Sometimes people's visions of what their long hair will look like is not the reality of it. Is that a crime?

Shanarana
September 1st, 2008, 04:27 PM
How about two Ficcares? I don't know if my hair is as thick as yours is, but I can understand how frustrating it must be. I hope you can find something that works.
Can you get a large hair slide/leather barrette made up so that you can wear your hair at the base of your neck?

Also if you have trouble with slides or barrettes slipping off, you can always use an elastic first for a pony than put the slide over it. It will help keep in place.

Bene
September 1st, 2008, 04:28 PM
if you're determined to cut, i'd suggest taking it up to shoulder blade length and see how you like it. it'll still be long enough to tie back and you can still use any hair toys you have.

spidermom
September 1st, 2008, 04:29 PM
I've recently learned that certain hair styles must have two implements to secure it in my slick hair, maybe more. Like a small fork and 2 sticks, for instance.

Shanarana
September 1st, 2008, 04:29 PM
What the heck is this supposed to mean? Sometimes people's visions of what their long hair will look like is not the reality of it. Is that a crime?

Was thinking the same thing.

sipnsun
September 1st, 2008, 04:31 PM
We had a stylist in the salon I used to work at that could do amazing updos. She was always happy to teach people how to do them. If you ask around, you might be able to find someone like her that could help you out with some new styles. Good luck!

FrannyG
September 1st, 2008, 04:32 PM
I suggest that you try some half-ups or learn some new braids. See if that helps alleviate some of the feelings you have.

If there's really nothing that grabs your eye, and you're really feeling unhappy with your hair, then just cut it to a length you remember feeling happy with.

Your hair is 100% healthier looking than it was before, so I'm certain that enjoy those old lengths more than ever before.

Everyone's definition of long hair is different. Also, everyone's definition of feeling comfortable with oneself is different.

In the end, you really only have yourself to please, and I for one will be supportive in whatever you choose to do. :blossom:

dorothea-brooke
September 1st, 2008, 04:37 PM
Gibraltar bun, Gibraltar bun! It's my go-to "I'm sick of my hair" style.

LeaM107's instructions (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=116596&postcount=2).
Nightshade's instructions (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=204513#post204513) for using a Ficcare.

Also, I know you said "Don't say 'Don't cut!'," but do remember that you probably will still be frustrated with your hair when it's shorter -- it's still going to be thick, and the only remedy for updo troubles with very thick hair is length. :flower:

jojo
September 1st, 2008, 04:53 PM
You know its not a crime to want a change, so I am not going to say 'don't cut' as you have obviously put a lot of thought into it.

Suggestions; well I would say don't go to short or a lot shorter in one big swoop, its a shock to the system. Was there a length you really liked and felt you could cope better with?

Maybe a few layers may make it more manageable for you, maybe it won't but hair is for enjoying so you will never know until you try!

Or for a change a different hem? Don't really have a lot of suggestions but do what makes you happy, thats all what matters. x

Angelica
September 1st, 2008, 04:54 PM
What can I say? I wish my hair was half as thick. I am at the stage now when I hate mine as well. I think it has grown to the extent it can now and it doesn't look any good loose at all. Far too fine, thin and flyaway. I have the worst hair type. The problem I have is that my hair is too fine to go in most of the styles here on the forum and even if it did it would look pretty pathetic in comparison to those with gorgeous thick hair like yours. I have the problem with it being super slippery as well, and now that I am trying to be "kinder" to my hair, it has even less body in it than it had before.

I know I wouldn't cut, because I wouldn't cut off what I've got despite the fact that it probably isn't worth saving.

I am sure you can find some nice styles to suit your gorgeous thick hair. Why not try wearing it loose for a change?

kimberlily
September 1st, 2008, 04:57 PM
Also, I know you said "Don't say 'Don't cut!'," but do remember that you probably will still be frustrated with your hair when it's shorter -- it's still going to be thick, and the only remedy for updo troubles with very thick hair is length. :flower:

I have no cutting advice, but I can relate to what you're going through. When I hit 30", my hair made me absolutely insane. I couldn't do any updos because with my thickness, nothing was working. I almost did cut, but decided not to, because my hair was bound to behave and go into the updos I wanted to try when it was longer. During that non-cooperative phase, I wore a lot of braids. Now I can do more buns than ever before, and I'm happy with my hair again :)

spidermom
September 1st, 2008, 04:58 PM
Length definitely helps stability of up-dos. I think waist was my worst hair length so far. Too heavy and too into everything to wear down. Too thick to get enough twists/turns to secure up comfortably. At nearly tailbone, it's a breeze in comparison.

And your hair is beautiful, all things good.

Lamb
September 1st, 2008, 05:02 PM
What the heck is this supposed to mean? Sometimes people's visions of what their long hair will look like is not the reality of it. Is that a crime?

Perhaps I am the only one, but I'm sure Blueglass was just being ironic/kidding. (At least it sounded like that to me.)

EllisGurl, I think Gumball's idea (dividing your hair in two sections and pinning them up in buns, figure8s etc.) is great. I wonder if crown braids would also work? But I also think that if you feel you want a change, go for it. You have had long hair long enough to know what it is like, what it means to you and why you don't like it any more.

Isilme
September 1st, 2008, 05:07 PM
If you haven't tried ficcares, try one. I don't have any hairtoy that holds like a ficcare. I can do belly dancing hairdance and still have my updo intact. I plan on ordering a flexi-8, from what I have gathered, people think they hold quite well. Have you tried a french twist? Or even two of them meeting on the back of your head.
Or try lots and lots of small jaw clips and twist your hair in small curls.
Btw, I have found that hairsticks that aren't perfectly smooth holds my hair way better than the über smooth ones.
Have you searched ficcare and flexi's sites for styles? I know at least flexi has some. The long hair loom?

http://www.longlocks.com/hairstyles.htm

http://www.hairpedia.com/articles/hair-styles-cat-hairstyles-id-33.html (the braid in the front could take away some thickness and make it easier to do full updos at the back of your head)

Another thought, could you do a bun with half of your hair, and then take the other half and twist it around the first bun?
Double buns, either two on top of each other or side by side should take away some thickness.
I remember that awkvard stage when the tail of my 8.s and infinity's would always slip out, it will get better with more length.
Please excuse me if you don't understand, it's well past bedtime for me here...

darkwaves
September 1st, 2008, 05:14 PM
Hi EllisGurl,

Are you relying just on a single hair toy/tool? I usually have to use extra pins to support updos now. Anything from regular bobby pins to Amish pins to little plastic ones that look and work like mini-forks.

And I find that two hair sticks -- aimed in from opposite angles -- often work better than hair forks. Double the chance of catching the hair in place, I guess, and I have some long ones for a more secure hold. (And then there's the extra pins I need to hold it all most days...)

Good luck -- please let us know if you find styles you're happy with, and what you decide about cutting.

ktani
September 1st, 2008, 05:17 PM
EllisGurl

I think that your hair is very beautiful and the condition looks amazing.

How much would you need to cut to be comfortable with your hair again?

It may be that you do not have to lose too much length.

The idea, at least to me, is that I enjoy my long hair.

I do not have a specific length goal because I want to see how comfortable I am at different lengths and I am leaving my optimal length, open to that.

If you were able to do certain styles with pleasure and comfort, maybe just revisit that length for a while or keep it as your final goal.

wintersun99
September 1st, 2008, 05:57 PM
If you cut your hair, how short would you like? Would it be more difficult for you to contain your hair if it is shorter?

alinakathryn
September 1st, 2008, 05:59 PM
Your hair is super thick. I agree don't cut it super short unless you plan on letting the stylist thin it out. Or you could just have it trimmed and then thinned a little for managebility. That being said, I really don't know how that would work for letting it grow or if it would start a "need it thinned out again" cycle. Though I think a trim and letting the stylist thin it out would fix some of the problems you are having.

As for updos, there is a blog that I visit that is for her daughters' hair. All her daughters have long hair. It looks thick too but not nearly as thick as yours. Some things she does are really little girl or young girl looking, however they may give you some different ideas of updos. http://princesscharmedhair.blogspot.com/ (http://princesscharmedhair.blogspot.com/search/label/Buns)

Hope this helps some
Sarah

spidermom
September 1st, 2008, 06:02 PM
No, please don't have it thinned. It's a nightmare to grow out!

prosperina
September 1st, 2008, 06:11 PM
The two ficcare look is really secure. Take a small and a medium or a medium and a large then place the smaller one in a half up, usually I do a small bun, then bun the bottom part with larger ficcare. Silver primaveras are pretty for this.

My hair stays up better when it's oiled and almost dirty.

rubyredslippers
September 1st, 2008, 06:13 PM
What about updos where you divide the hair into two sections, and put each section up one at a time? Or teddy-ear buns? Or braided buns--those hold really well with hairsticks. I'd also suggest the rose bun (the one where you use a rope-braid and put it up--that one came to mind first) Chinese buns, held with claw clips? Japanese buns? Those hold well, I've found, but I don't know with your slip . . .

There are some really good suggestions in this thread, and I hope you'll take them into consideration. Good luckc with your decision!:D

Islandgrrl
September 1st, 2008, 06:18 PM
Well, EllisGurl if your really that ungrateful, maybe you should cut off the hair and send it to me in cause I ever need a wig. Or you could send it to Pantene Beautiful Lenghts, Wigs for kids, or even the much malignee LOL. Really very nice. Maybe you should learn to french braiding.

Okay, if this isn't some kind of inside joke, I have to say: NOT HELPFUL.

EllisGurl opened up and confided in us what she's really feeling. And she asked for help. That was neither helpful nor kind. And I have to say, pretty offensive. Let's hope, Blueglass that should you have the courage to ask for help and support at some point that you're treated with a little more understanding than you showed to EllisGurl.

Of course, if I'm wrong and it was a joke, I do apologize. (How's that for trying to cover my assets?)

So, EllisGurl, I understand your frustration. I have really thick hair and can pretty much only do cinnamon buns. I won't be able to do some of the fun styles until I'm nearly at hip. Frustrating, yeah, but temporary!

Maybe braids/bunned braids would work for you. Have you tried something like a Ficcare? They do hold really well, and might give you some options while your hair gets long enough to do some of the more elaborate styles. Etta Mae forks don't fall out of my hair, but most of the time hairsticks do, as do plastic toys.

It really sounds to me like you're wanting to cut out of frustration. I understand that, too - I've done it - and have immediately (or nearly so) regretted it. Please make every attempt to find something that will work before you cut! It might just be that you have to suffer through a few more awkward months until you find a really workable solution.

nastasska
September 1st, 2008, 06:21 PM
All I can say is I know how you feel I get bored with my hair too and want a change I've felt this way for over a year now and I don't know exactly what to do about it either:confused:

Kirin
September 1st, 2008, 06:24 PM
My DD14 has incredibly thick long hair, braided, its as thick as my forearm and she has some of your same problems. We beat this problem with a few implements, that are lifesavers for extremely secure hairdos!

One is the Topsy Tail. http://www.asseenontv.com/prod-pages/topsy_tail.html Forget the styles they show, use it from the top of your head all the way down making topsy tail after topsy tail, with starting with small ponytails down your head, then topsy them. They are comfortable, secure, and because its several ponytails going down (like a french braid) the thickness of your hair will not be a problem...... braid the end off, looks fabulous and its not going anywhere.

Two is Hairdini: http://www.hairdini.com/hairdini2.html For thick hair, buy more than one, possibly two or three. You can make some super cool designs (s's and so forth) in "buns" down the back of you head, so secure, and nope, not going anywhere. For thick hair, you'll need more than one, you can "double bun" one over the other, looks awesome.

Both of these items are incredibly easy to use, takes minutes, is snug, and your hair won't fall out, I promise you.

EllisGurl
September 1st, 2008, 06:47 PM
First of all, let me say: Congratulations BlueGlass. You are now the sole member of my ignore list.

Islandgrrl, thanks for the kind words, I have never interacted with her before so I can assure you it was no inside joke.

Thanks you everybody for your suggestions and wrote to assure me I was not alone in frustration with the length vs. thickness problem. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

Gumball and FrannyG: Thanks for chiming in! I have successfully done several buns etc in a half updo. I wear these for a little more elegant look. Unfortunately, all of my hair must go up for work, not only to keep it out of the way but for its own protection.

Thanks to everybody who suggested a Fiaccare. I do not own one--yet Suggestions on the best place to get one? *runs off and looks into getting one*

darkwaves, again, thanks for chiming in. When I use sticks, I do aim them at opposite angles. It never really occurred to me to do it any other way :silly:

spidermom, I did see one style that I liked and I would like to try it. It didn't look secure enough for work though.

dorothea-brooke, I played with the Gibraltar bun briefly. It might just work--sort of. Thanks!

Angelica What can I say. :flower: As for your question, I do wear it down when I can. I seem to have some mental block about it though, I'm always wanting to detangle(comb, brush, finger comb...)--which in fact, it seems to need more than I'd like it to.

rubyredslippers, Chinese buns are sooo not my favorite but Japanese buns? I've never heard of it. Can you direct me to a link?
To those who asked/commented about cutting; I don't know what length but I know it won't be very short at all, and don't worry spidermom, I will not have it thinned!

spidermom
September 1st, 2008, 06:57 PM
don't worry spidermom, I will not have it thinned!

Whew; well, that's a relief!

Arctic_Mama
September 1st, 2008, 06:59 PM
Oh gosh, I have SO been there, and that's why I am here, now. I regretted chopping my hair off badly!

That said, if you're unhappy with it (which I hear you on, I always hated how no matter how long my hair got it wouldn't 'do' anything - either too bulky or too heavy) a cut might be a good idea if you genuinely have no desire to have it longer. Was there a length you remember liking a lot on terms of styling choices or manageability? With your hair in such beautiful condition it is quite likely you'll fall even MORE in love with that same stage and styles, and a cut would help eliminate some of the 'old hair' that you had processed. Like a fresh start, in a sense, and then if you decided to try and go long again you'd be even BETTER!

I personally liked the middle of my back a lot - I could do simple updos with no problem and the more basic braids, it was quick and everything looked pretty good. Whatever you decide I really hope you are happy with it and don't have to deal with constant frustration again on this! Your hair is stunning, but it's no good if you are so frustrated that the big hack looks appealing!

Best of luck :)

Gumball
September 1st, 2008, 06:59 PM
No problemo! Oh and I didn't just suggest one bun as a half up. You'd just bun the top half and then bun the bottom half. Then all your hair is up in a way that works with your length and thickness. If you can do half a bun with all your hair then why not a full bun with half your hair! :D Sometimes you just have to find a way to work around the problem in a fun and different way. Luckily you have us here to look at it through different eyes. Good luck! I'm positive you'll find styles that work and ways to ease the styling.

Arctic_Mama
September 1st, 2008, 07:09 PM
Just read your last post - amen to not having it thinned from his quarter, too! Nothing will frizz my hair out worse and hunting down splits... you can forget it!

Morticia
September 1st, 2008, 07:22 PM
EllisGurl - have you tried a 5 or 6 prong fork? For my own slippery hair, forks with more prongs tend to hold better.

Cinnamon Hair
September 1st, 2008, 07:46 PM
EllisGurl, having seen your hair in person I can vouch for it being beautiful, thick, and yes, slippery. I wish we would have had the chance to play with hair toys more and maybe figure out a good style for you. Honestly, I think your hair looks amazing, even more so now after seeing your "before" pic. That is some serious improvement! I understand that having unusually thick hair seems like a hinderance now, but if you did choose to grow longer it would be a great asset. For one, you'd never have to worry about thin ends like me ;).

Ideas...
Have you tried putting your hair up when it is damp? You could use a mister bottle for this instead of washing every time. --When my hair is damp it clumps together and is easier to deal with in general. That means more stable updos and less slippery hair.

A few other people mentioned braiding.. that might be a good way to keep the ends from coming loose. You could use a ponytail elastic, braid the length, coil into a cinnamon bun and then try using sticks or a fork to keep it together.

I agree with the suggestion to use pins as well. Good Days hair pins, or Amish pins, whatever you like. Sometimes I will use those around the outside edge of an updo to keep it ffrom alling apart.

Also, you might be able to do a peacock sort of twist. Hold it in a ponytail at the nape, twist the length upward and clip it with a ficcare/fakkare/or claw clip letting the ends hang over the top of the clip.
You may be able to do a log roll as well.

Your thickness reminds me of Igor's hair. Her hair is incredibly thick and she grew it out from a shaved head, so she has experienced every length (now at classic, I think). You might check her profile and pics to see what kind of updos she was able to do at your length, or PM her for ideas.

ETA: I found this updo article (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=43) that looks like it might work.

Islandgrrl
September 1st, 2008, 07:49 PM
I agree with Morticia. I have a 5-prong fork that always, no matter what, holds like a rock. It's a metal one (but I 2 multi-prong wood forks on the way a 4 and a 7 prong) from Northwest Goods. :)

DecafJane
September 1st, 2008, 08:21 PM
The best places to get Ficcares are at www.Ficcare.com or at Headgamesonline. The cheapest place is on the swap boards if you are lucky, or if you have some nearby friends here who have some that they can spare. :)

BlackfootHair
September 1st, 2008, 09:12 PM
Well, first off I just want to say your hair is gorgeous. I hope you don't cut, but it's your hair, and ultimately you have to decide what's right for you.

I haven't had really long hair since I was old enough to take care of it myself, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I've seen those "no-slip grip" hair toys at Walmart and Target. I'm not sure if they make anything to fit a larger wad of hair (wad doesn't sound like the right word...makes me think of wad of gum...)

Anyway, they have rubbery stuff inside that grip the hair to a degree to keep it from slipping. Maybe you could get some stuff from a craft store and touch up your own hair toys? Not sure what you'd use...but something that would dry rubbery and secure...

My mom used to keep my hair in a high pony tail, braid it, and shellac it with hairspray. If head lice was going around, my braid got wrapped around the top of my pony. :)

Sorry if that wasn't much help....

Emichiee
September 1st, 2008, 09:22 PM
No, please don't have it thinned. It's a nightmare to grow out!

I second that, it will only add to taper and make the top even look thicker..:(

I really don't know what to advice you other than - take some more time to think about it.

Give certain hairdos one more chance, my cousin has iii BSL length hair and I was able to do almost every hairdo with a little twists and triicks here and there.

A trick would be putting two sections up instead of one.

But in the end just do what you are happy with, and if that is not long hair then so it be. :)

Bene
September 1st, 2008, 09:23 PM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/bene25/smilies/lol.gif @ this thread turning into an intervention....


again, if you're ready to cut, then by all means cut. just not so much that you can't do anything with it. no point in abandoning your hair toys.

Teacherbear
September 1st, 2008, 09:25 PM
Please remember to post with respect and compassion (see #3) (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4005). If you feel something has been posted that was disrespectful or unsympathetic, please use the Report Post button (little circle with an R in the middle underneath the poster's avatar and statistics).

Darkhorse1
September 1st, 2008, 10:28 PM
Haven't read all the answers, but the bottom line?
You have to be happy with your hair. If you aren't, there are some options:
You can donate it if you want to any organization
Sell it and donate the money (or keep the money) ;)
Or, you could get maybe five inches cut and slowly go shorter?

I work in a physically demanding job as well, and I find a braid or ponytail or scrunchie bun works best for me. You can see photos of my hair in my album. I've been growing out my bangs (keeping a fringe) and THAT was horrid, but I'm REALLY delighted with the results. I can't imagine if I would be unhappy with the results.

You've got gorgeous hair, so if you aren't enjoying it at the length it's at, then you have so many options---would you go back to shoulder length or shorter? I'd also consult a hair stylist to get an idea of what styles look good with your face shape--you can fiddle with some programs online too. I can't remember where, but I think www.instylemagazine.com had this progam you could try on different star's hair styles. It was a lot of fun :) I did it through facebook though.

Darkhorse1
September 1st, 2008, 10:33 PM
Oh! I have a hairdini--I just have to warn you--be careful with them!! They can get caught in your hair REALLY easily. I nearly freaked out. What I found worked AWESOME, was braiding my hair, then using the hairdini to make a braid bun for when I'm showing. I found the braid was secure enough to be active that it didn't pull the hair, and looked tidy enough for in the show ring.

In regards to Blue Glass's comment, I wouldn't jump on it--it's quite possible there's a typo in there or an error and what was meant to be written and what was written was two different things.

sapphire-o
September 2nd, 2008, 12:16 AM
I have slippery hair, too and I couldn't have made it this far without Ficcares. Leather slides work pretty well, too. It does seem to take a lot longer for thick hair to do those complicated updos, but when you finally get long enough your bun would be so big and impressive. :)

Slug Yoga
September 2nd, 2008, 01:54 AM
Yes, I definitely echo the ficcare thing. It doesn't have to be a real ficcare, as those are expensive--I use one I got at H&M that cost me like two bucks.

I still suck at doing updos so that they actually stay, but when I twist my hair and put a ficcare over it, it stays up indefinitely. And even if it does start to get loose, it only takes a few seconds to put it up again the same way.

Your hair looks beautiful.

alinakathryn
September 2nd, 2008, 02:51 AM
:blushing: leave it to the new person to suggest something bad. Sorry about that.

Mitzy
September 2nd, 2008, 03:44 AM
I am so feeling your pain!
I have very thick, coarse hair and mine is just a bit shorter than yours, so I know what you are going through. Fortunately I am in an office job and can wear mine down most of the time. Just wait till we have some of those Perth 100 degree days though and listen to me whine.
I also suggest a Ficcare (I pm'd you) and maybe a buff, if that look works for you.

noelgirl
September 2nd, 2008, 06:49 AM
EllisGurl, based on your stats your hair sounds really similar to mine, except that I'm not quite at waist yet (but rapidly approaching!). Yeah, that neat trick of keeping it all up with one implement isn't one that I've mastered either - unfortunately, it takes combined tactics and a lot of patience. That said, a few things that I have found helpful:

- Those no-slip grip hair toys that Blackfoot mentioned work really well on my hair. Especially the ones marked as being "for thick hair" - they are larger, with longer prongs, so they go all the way through the twist, even if I've folded it over an extra time. They don't make it "physical activity" secure, but they're great for casual updos.
- The most secure updos for me usually have a ponytail as a base. I'm a dancer, and as much as I'd like to be able to do more interesting things for class, it is usually a simple bun that stays out of the way the best. I do actually like the way a ballerina bun looks on me, but yeah, it gets monotonous. But think of the way that that style has a secure ponytail as a base, and base other styles off of that.
- My hair somehow manages to be both slippy and frizzy, sometimes at the same time - neat trick, huh? Just a bit of AVG helps with both problems.
- My hair tends to behave more when it does have a bit of layering - it makes it look more like wavy hair rather than messy straight hair. Just keep the layers long enough that they all fit into that ponytail, otherwise it's a setup for even more frustration.

Above all, I hope that you find a solution that makes you happy, whatever it is :)

LadyLongLocks
September 2nd, 2008, 07:21 AM
For thick slippery hair, multiple Jaw clips work good. Use the smaller ones. My hair is thick and heavy and I couldn't survive without the small clips. Hair toys are beautiful but most of them don't work for me. I use them as a decoration mostly or end up breaking them or they just plain hurt to use. Distribution of the hair weight and having a secure bun is very important and I finally can do it. I have some demos you could watch but my hair is much longer in the demo. Even if I had shorter hair I would still use the small clips because they work so well.
You can hide lots of the clips if you have thick hair. Don't give up!Try making a bun using 2 mirrors and multiple small clips.
Here is the link to my bun page where I posted the video demos. Maybe it will help. Hope you keep it long! Your hair is beautiful.

http://www.jjjlonghairphotopage.zoomshare.com/3.html

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i172/JJJLonghair/BANNERS%20FOR%20LINKING/sig2-2lhc.jpg

FrannyG
September 2nd, 2008, 07:24 AM
No problemo! Oh and I didn't just suggest one bun as a half up. You'd just bun the top half and then bun the bottom half. Then all your hair is up in a way that works with your length and thickness. If you can do half a bun with all your hair then why not a full bun with half your hair! :D Sometimes you just have to find a way to work around the problem in a fun and different way. Luckily you have us here to look at it through different eyes. Good luck! I'm positive you'll find styles that work and ways to ease the styling.

My mind must have been elsewhere, because I reread my earlier post and this is what I was trying to get to when I said try halfups. However, I see I didn't get there. :rolleyes: Any updo that can be done as a single updo, like a figure 8, or a celtic knot, can be done as a halfup. Then you can do another one with the remaining hair, right underneath.

It can look very elegant, especially with someone with thick hair.

Oh, I had no idea you didn't have a Ficcare! You really must have a Ficcare before any drastic measures. :)

Morag
September 2nd, 2008, 07:40 AM
I'm really not the one to comment here, because my hair is nothing like yours, but I wondered if you have tried braiding it first, then fashioning the braid into a bun? That always holds much better for me. However, it's possible that with your hair, the braid might be too thick to wrap well.

I agree that this could all sort itself out if you can wait for your hair to become longer. Of course, that doesn't help with the day-to-day frustration right now, but sometimes knowing things will get better can help you get through the tough places.

My best to you, whatever you decide. The most important thing is that you feel happy about your hair. :flower:

FrannyG
September 2nd, 2008, 07:42 AM
:blushing: leave it to the new person to suggest something bad. Sorry about that.

You didn't suggest something "bad". Some hairstylists can successfully thin out hair, but it's hard to find them, and it's not for everybody, that's all. :shrug: There's certainly nothing to be sorry for.

Don't be afraid to put your ideas forward. :flower:

Tabitha
September 2nd, 2008, 08:09 AM
I agree with Morticia. I have a 5-prong fork that always, no matter what, holds like a rock. It's a metal one.

I would say too, that my 4-prong (wooden) forks hold more securely than my 2-prong ones. For me, wood has a little more grip than metal apart from Quattro Starlites which are not shiny. Also a braided bun (tied off with an elastic) tends to slip out less easily than a non braided bun. Twisted buns are slightly more secure than non twisted ones which drop out within minutes. And the only thing I can do with clean hair (wash day/DD1) is a half-up with a barrette - not ideal on a wet or windy day.

My hair is about your length - not quite waist due to its wurls - and probably a bit thicker than yours if you're on the border between ii and iii as your profile states. I can completely empathise with you as it seems in the last few months that all the styles that I could do before just look rubbish now and seem fall out so quickly. I think it's a combination of increased heaviness, and the ends being in a different place in buns. I'm trying to tough it out in the hope that it will get easier again with a little bit more length, but really, I hear you in the "getting SO fed up with it" stakes.

morningstar
September 2nd, 2008, 08:15 AM
Well, EllisGurl if your really that ungrateful, maybe you should cut off the hair and send it to me in cause I ever need a wig. Or you could send it to Pantene Beautiful Lenghts, Wigs for kids, or even the much malignee LOL. Really very nice. Maybe you should learn to french braiding.

This seems way out of line here. :rolleyes:

morningstar
September 2nd, 2008, 08:28 AM
Sorry to post again but the above made me confused.

Ellisgurl strange I should see this today as I was peeking at your album last night and in awe of the changes your hair went through to look like it does now. Amazing really!

I think my first suggestion is what Emi and perhaps others might have mentioned. Sectioning your hair. Perhaps if you parted it in the middle and used Ficcares to secure the buns, or perhaps braiding your hair and then buning the braid or braids?
It could be that someone could make you a heavy duty fork.

Sorry if these ideas have already been suggested, I read the whole thread but probably missed something.

If it feels right to cut, the one thing that I can say is that your hair is now very healthy looking and will look great in any style you choose. :flowers:

Denebi
September 2nd, 2008, 10:07 AM
Like so many others already suggested: Try out a Ficcare!

My hair is rather thin, but sometimes very slippery, too. The following things help me getting along with it:
- braiding
- updos with damp/oiled hair
- Ficcares! (of course ;) )
- scroos (stormy weather approved)
- Ketylos (hold much better than normal hair sticks)
- french/dutch braids (hold better than english braids)
- don't bother (that's probably not an option for you, if you have to keep your hair securely out of the way)

My message for you is: Don't give up. At least not before you did not try out some of the many very good suggestions given in this thread ;)

Cutting is easy, you can still do it when you think, you have tried enough and not getting anywhere. If this is already the case for you right now, then do it, it will be the right thing for you.

Good luck for you, whatever you are going to decide.

Ah, and by the way: You hair is just beautiful! This comment maybe does not help you, but I could'nt resist ;)

Elbereth
September 2nd, 2008, 11:27 AM
My hair is not as thick as yours, but it is super slippery.

So I have some ideas. I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if someone has already suggested these...

-Always start your bun from a ponytail base. I have worn buns since the moment I could put my hair up, which is several years now. I have never been able to make a secure bun without starting it from a ponytail I tie off first with a hair friendly elastic.

-Wear a bun net. I have both heavyweight and thin (invisible) bun nets. A bun net can't hold your hair up alone, but it is a big help. My hair is also very fine, and a bun net helps to keep my buns neat all day long.
A bun net limits the styling choices somewhat, and works best with round buns like cinnamon buns and knot buns. It's still worth it.

-Also braided buns started from a French braid are secure, if you manage to make a secure French braid (it takes some practicing, but it is possible even with super slippery hair).

-Best hairtoys for me are Ketylos and Ficcares. I can wear other hairtoys as well, if I wear my bun net. When my hair is superhyper slippery, I either wear it in a half up style or wear a headcovering. Again, if you go the headcovering route (which is a must for me on days when leaving hair down just isn't a safe option), there are many options. My favorites are making an ugly, flat, super secure bun with more metal than a small mine could hold and a heavyweight hairnet and then cover everything with a plain bonnet. My other favorite is to put my hair in a loose ponytail, dump it into a cloth snood, secure the snood in place with two snap clippies/straight pins in the front and cover it up with a thin cotton scarf tied into a bun style.

I can somewhat relate with you. My hair isn't like I thought it would be when I started growing. Also, during the growing process we moved from city to live simpler life in countryside, and that has had a big impact on what I can do with my hair. I can't wear it down much, and sometimes I have asked myself what's the point of having a long hair when I have to keep it up and covered most of the time and I can't even wear my pretty hairtoys very often...

But for me, in the end it is worth it. My hair is beautiful in its own way and sometimes I still get to do whatever I like with it. Over the years I have become a longhair at heart, and though a shorter style might be more practical and carefree, it wouldn't be *me*. And no, this is not a plea for you to not cut. You do what is best for you. You obviously have given a lot of thought for this matter, and that's the important thing. :flower:

Cinnamon Hair
September 2nd, 2008, 12:44 PM
I forgot to mention this earlier. If you're using hair sticks, forks, or hair pins to get a secure hold you need to put them in pointing away from your head, grab the scalp hair with their tips, then angle toward the bun and weave (up,down,up,down) them into your updo. Putting sticks/forks/pins in straight is a lot less effective. If you're doing it right, they can actually feel too tight sometimes.

Nightshade
September 2nd, 2008, 01:54 PM
Please don't be offended by this but if you only plan to write "don't cut!" then don't reply. Whilst I appreciate all the encouragement, it's not what I am looking for with this thread.

Good on you for being honest and forthright. :flowers:

It seems to me, as others have said, that you just need a bit more length to get through this awkward stage. I think others have suggested great ideas, and hopefully in a few more inches things will get easy again.

Since your hair is so slippery, perhaps a mister with a bit of oil in it to help with grip? You'd obviously have to shake it well before misting, but it may help keep things from falling out :)

dorothea-brooke
September 2nd, 2008, 02:07 PM
Hmmmm.... Nightshade's post made me realize that all the (excellent) advice given so far as focused on hairtoy mechanics, but no one has said anything about the underlying hair-care routine.... (Of course, forgive me if I missed a post in there that addresses this!)

EllisGurl, do you use cones? Maybe you're getting too much slip from them, if so. You might also want to think about washing less frequently, in addition to the oil/misting suggestion from Nightshade.

I personally find a radical difference in updo holdability even one or two days after a shampoo. I don't even bother with buns until I have two-day hair; I only CO once a week for this reason.

You might want to try stretching time between washes, or changing/adding products to get some more grip in your hair.

Good luck! :flower:

Teacherbear
September 2nd, 2008, 06:43 PM
Oh, I had no idea you didn't have a Ficcare! You really must have a Ficcare before any drastic measures. :)


Hear hear! LOL Ficcare ROCK! :cheese:




EllisGurl, do you use cones? Maybe you're getting too much slip from them, if so. You might also want to think about washing less frequently, in addition to the oil/misting suggestion from Nightshade.


I was thinking that last night. We use to have a member here who had VERY thick hair, VERY long (mid thigh), and VERY slippery. She used a very cone-rich conditioner. She decided her scrunchi was good enough for her hair and that she didn't want to fight the updos.

Otherwise, I have no advice other than to do what you think will make you happy. If you decide to cut, I suggest you do it slowly, maybe an inch or two per month to see if you like it.

embee
September 2nd, 2008, 06:43 PM
As was said in an earlier post, you might try using an elastic on your ponytail before making a bun. I found it really helped me when I was having trouble getting hairsticks to stay in. Gave them something to work against.

(That said, my hair is very different, though it is slick - so perhaps this would not help for you.)

EllisGurl
September 4th, 2008, 07:47 AM
Thanks you guys for all the advice!!! :cloud9:

Teacherbear; thanks for the gentle reminder about respect.

Kirin; I had a Hairdini, couldn't make it work, ended up returning it. I have a TopsyTail but don't use it much. Don't much care for the results.

Cinnamon Hair; I do that when I use sticks but thinks for reiterating!

Blackfoothair; I've tried those "no-slip grip" thingies. The tear my hair out no matter how carefully I take them out. But, again, thanks for chiming in, it's great to hear everyone's ideas!

Nightshade; I'll have to try the mister idea!

dorothea-brooke; I use a cone-free S&C but I do henna. As for dirty hair, I can only go two days between washes before my hair is so visibly oily that's obvious even in an updo. I have tried to go longer but can't without co-workers commenting.

Morticia; sadly, the only fork I own ATM is the one pictured in my original post. I am looking in to getting more :agree:.

As for not owning a Fiaccare or more forks, I think my unconscious thought process was; it I can't do updos anyway, why should I spend money I don't have on hair toys I can't use. Obviously, I need to rethink that.

DarkChocolate
September 4th, 2008, 11:57 AM
Hi:)

I second the braids idea:) There are many updos with multiple braids that work wonderfully with thick hair:) I can only speak from looking at the pictures of these updos. I have never done them myself.

However I can identify with slippery hair. My own hair is so silky that it cannot stay in a ponytail very long:) I enjoy just wearing it down too.

I wanted to also say that your hair looks great:)

Here is the website I love for braids:

http://www.dreamweaverbraiding.com/braid_examples.htm

Tabitha
September 4th, 2008, 12:32 PM
I can't recommend 60th Street highly enough as a source of good quality reasonably priced forks. Not for nothing do they have their own thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=6932) here! I rely on their 4-prong forks when my hair is clean and I need to keep it out of wind and weather. If you contact them, they will make in other colours/woods than what is shown on their eBay and etsy shops.

dorothea-brooke
September 4th, 2008, 12:54 PM
I would like to chime in, again, with the following advice: Speharb (http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5363896&section_id=5207613)!

I just got my first beautiful (on-line pix do not do it justice) slide the other day, and it is holding my hair like a rock. Comfy, pretty, super-duper hold. I really think you should give their toys a try, EliisGurl!

:twocents:

Delila
September 4th, 2008, 02:40 PM
Over the years I've noticed that a lot of members with really thick hair just need way more length to manage certain updos than someone with thinner hair.

I do remember reading that a lot of iii's put up an updo with lots of pins, pinning as they go, from the center outwards, to give the entire updo lots of support at every stage. Another option is to create an updo with the top half of the hair, pinning it in place, then using the rest of the hair to create a second updo on top of it, layering them together.


In a similar vein, now that my hair's longer, if I'm going to use some of my shorter hairsticks with certain updos, I find I like using a few hairpins to secure the updo first, then using the sticks more as a decorative element than as a supportive tool.

I do know that certain styles that worked well at shorter lengths need a different kind of support at longer lengths.

EllisGurl
September 6th, 2008, 05:58 AM
Bumping this thread and asking for fork placement advice and length: you can see in the pic in my original post how it's placed and, not only is it not long enough, but it will work it's way out in a matter of an hour or so. I'm thinking I need to place it more sideways so that the fork is across the direction of the hair not along it.

If it were placed different, it might not be too short....:shrug:

What do you think. Any other advice you and impart?

Delila
September 6th, 2008, 08:50 AM
... If it were placed different, it might not be too short....:shrug:

...

I agree, it's important to come up with a combination of updo style and hairtoy placement that works for a given style (and thickness of hair).

As for that style, I think you've got so much thickness that it would probably be more stable if you break it down into sections, stabilizing one, then adding another on top.

Have you checked out some of the styles in the archived forum (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22)?

LisaButz2001
September 7th, 2008, 01:23 PM
I swear by scrunchies. I usually need about 4.

justgreen
September 7th, 2008, 01:53 PM
Ellis, are you twisting the hair as you bun? I gather mine for a normal pony, start the twist and continue twisting as I wind the hair around. I find this hold MUCH better than some of the other up-do's.

DragonLady
September 7th, 2008, 01:57 PM
Maybe a hair cinch?

http://www.haircinch.com/index.html

I made a facsimile that I just love. It goes in easy, holds all day, looks great, and doesn't do much (or any) damage when I take it out.

Niphredil
September 7th, 2008, 02:30 PM
If you get to the point where you are sure you want to cut, then go for it.

As someone with a lot of hair, bordering on iii (freshly washed just over 4", in need of a wash it is 3.5-4" ) I can second the notion that THE solution to thickness and updo's is indeed length! All of a sudden I could add another wrap to my buns and they stayed all day instead of a few hours.

This was during my first grow-out period btw.