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frizzywaves
August 7th, 2013, 01:13 PM
Hi everyone. I'm new posting here but I've been reading the posts on this site off and on for a number of years.

I recently started coming back here after deciding to grow my hair to my waist. It's currently around BSL. Just when I decided to grow my hair longer, I began noticing 2 things: 1. I have fairly new hair growth all around my head. It's about 5" long and it's all over. It makes my hair look a bit goofy, but my hair is so thin, it seemed to be a blessing. 2. I started losing a TON of hair! I normally shed quite a bit but nothing like this. My hair is considerably thinner now, and I'm losing both the longer hairs AND the newer hair!

I think the reason for the new growth is because a few months ago I began a new diet (new for me anyway!). I've been a vegan for 11 years with no problems, but I came across the 80/10/10 diet and started on that. It's mostly eating a ton of fruit all day and a salad for dinner, with very little added fats and no salt. After 2 weeks, I went on a modified version of this, because I just couldn't eat salads anymore. So, now I'm normally eating a lot of fruit for breakfast and lunch and then a low fat (sometimes slightly higher in fat) cooked vegan meal. However, now that I'm losing my hair I'm wondering if this is wrong? Should I add a little more fat?

Because of the hair loss, I've begun taking Hair Skin and Nail vitamins, which I always used to take and had much more hair. It doesn't seem to be helping though, which is why I'm questioning the fat intake.

Can anyone here help me, please?

leslissocool
August 7th, 2013, 01:23 PM
Mmmhm how's your protein intake? I'd add a vegan protein shake for breakfast and maybe some coconut oil.


Lack of iron, protein and omega 3 often cause sheds.

Hootenanny
August 7th, 2013, 01:28 PM
I totally agree with leslissocool, having adequate protein intake is crucial for healthy hair growth, and eating only fruits and veggies just won't provide enough. You could try adding a vegan protein shake once a day. Also, it's great that you are taking vitamins, just be sure to give them time to work: it can take months to see results.

meteor
August 7th, 2013, 01:29 PM
I think low fat diet isn't ideal for hair (and many other things). Hair and skin need lots of high-quality fats - good balance of omega-3, omega-6, omega-9. Why do you think we discuss hair oils so much on TLHC? If you choose to remain vegan, I hope you are consuming enough essential fatty acids. Fish oil is great for skin and hair, but if you remain vegan, why not use flax seed oil, evening primrose oil, etc?
Another potential issue is B vitamins, iron, zinc, proteins... - make sure you get enough of those. It may not be very easy on a vegan diet.


On your other question:
New growth combined with hair shedding makes sense: the very same day you shed a hair, a new one should start growing in its place, if your health allows. If you shed a lot, you should also have lots of new growth, unless something's up with your general health or diet.

Vrindi
August 7th, 2013, 01:31 PM
Hmm. I noticed the same thing when I ate low-fat diets. I no longer believe it's a healthy way to lose weight.

The fats that are in my diet are: olive oil, coconut oil, some cheese, avocado, coconut, peanut butter, other nuts and seeds like flax, and on rare occasions, butter. I'm vegetarian and make sure I get extra protein from whey shakes (I'm fairly active, and it's helped with muscle tone and all-around protein.) I watch only my calories because the foods I eat are as healthy as I can make them to begin with. Fats are extremely important for your body to build new cells, and if it can't do that, it's not going to waste resources and energy growing hair. I would add more fat to your diet. Just don't go all Paula Dean with the butter and you should be ok :P

frizzywaves
August 7th, 2013, 01:36 PM
Thanks, leslissocool. The way this diet works is you get 80% (or more) of your calories from carbs, 10% (or less) from fat, and 10% (or less) from protein. So, ideally, my protein intake is at 10% or less. I just checked what I've eaten for the day (and what I plan to eat later for dinner) on a diet website, and my protein intake is at 6% for the day (40 g). I'm getting over 2000 calories on the average day.

Do you think it could be the protein, rather than fat? I'm SO confused at this point!

leslissocool
August 7th, 2013, 01:45 PM
Thanks, leslissocool. The way this diet works is you get 80% (or more) of your calories from carbs, 10% (or less) from fat, and 10% (or less) from protein. So, ideally, my protein intake is at 10% or less. I just checked what I've eaten for the day (and what I plan to eat later for dinner) on a diet website, and my protein intake is at 6% for the day (40 g). I'm getting over 2000 calories on the average day.

Do you think it could be the protein, rather than fat? I'm SO confused at this point!

Yes, it really could. Less amino acids (which need protein to bond) means lower iron levels too. Remember that hair is protein, the protein in your body goes to your organs, then what's left over goes to your hair. So if it's all going to your organs, it's not going to your hair.

So if you increase your protein, and increase your fat a bit (you can put a tablespoon of coconut oil in the protein powder shake and continue to eat the way you do), and your hair stops shedding, it just means you have higher protein needs.


I have high protein needs, 40g would make my hair shed half of it's volume. I get 100 and over a day, but I also work out and lift heavy weights. Usually protein, amino acids and iron go hand in hand.

ETA: You don't need to get it from animal sources, just a vegan source they usually use spirulina or other things that contain the amino acids you need and protein to go along so it's like a supplement on top of your vitamins.

frizzywaves
August 7th, 2013, 01:49 PM
Hootenanny, thanks. I wasn't even thinking about protein intake. Now I'm not sure what to do! I guess I'll try to up my protein AND fat and see if that helps! :confused:

meteor, yes, I have recently stopped mostly all oils. I used to eat a lot of coconut oil and nuts and seeds but I've cut them out. That's why I'm so confused, the new growth is probably from when I cut out the fats, but now everything's falling back out again! So, I don't know if that's because I need more oil or what's happening!

Lol, Vrindi I would not go all Paula Dean with the fat! ;) I have been really craving avacadoes lately so I think I may begin by adding them. I'm just confused by all the new growth from what I think was the beginning of the diet compared to this point in the diet. Oh, and to clarify, I'm not on the diet to lose weight. I just wanted to try it and it cleared up my skin, which is why I decided to stay on it. My skin glows, but I'm going bald!!!! :(

frizzywaves
August 7th, 2013, 01:55 PM
leslissocool, okay, I will try to up my protein along with my fat and see. I didn't realise 40g of protein would be low? I also work out for about 1 1/2 hours - 2 hours a day. Not with heavy weights or anything, but I'm fairly active so maybe you're right about the protein! I'll definitely try to look into some vegan proteins!

Thanks so much!

dulce
August 7th, 2013, 01:58 PM
It seems to be a low protein high carb diet?Fruits and veggies are carb,and very low fat,low protein?Maybe a more balanced plan could help?Last summer 2012,I went vegan for 3 months,all the carbs[fruit,bread-high fibre,veggies ,beans made me lose so much hair over 3 months I developed bald spots on my scalp.I returned to a more balanced diet and my hair regrew back very fast .A lot of people do well on a higher carb diet[my hubbie does] but I don't.We are all individuals and need to find what works for us as individuals.So experiment to see where your body and hair is happiest ..my protein level was at 30 grms,I upped it to 60grms and over.Now my hair is happy again!

jeanniet
August 7th, 2013, 02:09 PM
40g of protein is pretty low, and it sounds like your fat intake is much too low as well. I'm not big on protein, and I still get somewhere around 60g a day. There's nothing wrong with eating fruits and veggies, but add in more beans, nuts, seeds, avocado, etc.

meteor
August 7th, 2013, 02:09 PM
meteor, yes, I have recently stopped mostly all oils. I used to eat a lot of coconut oil and nuts and seeds but I've cut them out. (...)
I have been really craving avacadoes lately so I think I may begin by adding them.
Yep, if you are actually craving such healthy foods, you should definitely add them. Brining back reasonable amounts of products like avocados, olives, nuts and seeds is probably going to only help you, not hurt you. Look at their nutritional profiles - they are amazing.

Also, hair may shed around 3 months after the stressor (e.g. new diet) was introduced.

You might find this thread & poll helpful to look into the connection between different diets and hair:
Best diet for hair: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=98827

Leeloo
August 7th, 2013, 03:56 PM
A low fat diet (low good fat) will definitely cause shed. A lot of the vitamins that you take are fat soluble so if your intake is low then you’re not retaining them.

frizzywaves
August 7th, 2013, 03:58 PM
dulce, yes, it's a high carb, low fat, low protein diet. You're right, everyone is different and I do need to experiment with different ratios to see what works for me. If it didn't help my skin so much, I probably wouldn't care, but it's hard to figure out another diet when this one has made such a difference in my skin! :( Of course, now that I'm losing hair....

Thanks, jeanniet, I think I will try to add more fats and proteins and see what happens. Like I said before, I've been really craving avocadoes and now that I think of it, I'm craving hummus too which would have both protein and fat, so I'll start giving in to these cravings maybe and see if it helps.

Thanks for the link, meteor. I've never had this happen to me before, and I've been a vegan for 11 years now. So, I know it has to be this particular diet that isn't right for me. But, I really like how much nicer my skin is (no acne and it's so soft and smooth!) so this is one reason why I've been so confused about it. I think all the fruit has been good for me, it's just that I'm lacking something I was getting before. I thought it was fat, but it sounds more like it's the protein as well.

I guess I'll just have to add more healthy fat and protein and wait.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions, everyone. I'm going grocery shopping tomorrow and hopefully I'll stop losing hair soon! :)

Leeloo
August 7th, 2013, 03:59 PM
I’ve read that coconut oil can actually help with weight loss. There was a thread about that here on LHC.

frizzywaves
August 7th, 2013, 04:09 PM
Hi, Leeloo. I didn't even think about not absorbing certain vitamins because of low amounts of fat.

I keep trying to think of all the different diet changes I've made over the years, and my hair was always really nice until now. It's kind of upsetting, but looking back, I think I've always eaten a lot more fat and somewhat more protein than what I'm eating now. This diet is pretty drastic in that way. I was just hoping for a much different outcome! :rolleyes:

frizzywaves
August 7th, 2013, 04:12 PM
Yes, Leeloo, I had heard that too. As a matter of fact, last summer I was on a high fat raw diet (I've been doing a lot of experimenting!!!) and I ate lots of coconut oil and I ended up losing so much weight everyone became very worried. However, I felt AMAZING. AND my hair looked fantastic!!! Hmmm...maybe I should go back to that one! lol

fairview
August 7th, 2013, 10:08 PM
Supplements will not make and unbalanced diet balanced. Supplements enhance a balanced diet. Rule of thumb. On a maintenance, loss or net gain basis, for an active person,roughly .8gm of quality protein for every 1lb of desired body weight should be consumed on a daily basis. On the average the body can only efficiently use 10+/-gm of protein at any one time so drinking a protein shake with 20gm of protein in one drink wastes almost half of that protein. For every 10lbs of body weigh desired, 8gm of protein should be consumed every day. It that simple.

Not sure what a 'vegan' diet is but if it is a strict no red meat diet and you follow it strictly, there are 2 essential amino acids that you are no getting. Sorry I forget which ones they are. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, hair is 100% mixture of protein and amino acids. Before shortchanging your body essential tissues and muscles of protein, it will shortchange non-essential tissues, hair being one of the first.

A diet very low in fats may interfere with the absorption of fat soluble vitamins but simply taking any of these vitamins with a meal will resolve that concern as any fat in the food will accommodate the absorption of these vitamins.

Bottom line, your hair or "coat" is a reflection of your health as is it is in all mammals. Poor coat condition is an indication of an unbalanced diet, hormonal imbalance, problematic thyroid function or high cortisol levels. Any corrections made now will require patience of 4 months to see a noticeable/visible improvement.

chen bao jun
August 7th, 2013, 10:21 PM
I would go see a dr and have some tests run to see what health issues you are having. As Fairview states above, there are a lot of potential issues and your hair is jsut showing that something is wrong--it is a symptom, not the problem.Go see a dr and then a nutritionist (a certified nutritionist) and get a food plan set up that lets you eat vegan or whatever it is that you want to do but also makes sure you are getting all the calories you need (especially if you are very active) and also balances the different essential food groups and makes sure your needs are met. You cannot just go without any fat (or so very little) and be healthy, and you definitely need protein in some form. It doesn't have to be animal, but you need it. Before you affect your health seriously in a permanent way, go and see professionals who can test you and tailor something to fit your needs.

Firefox7275
August 8th, 2013, 06:36 AM
Hi everyone. I'm new posting here but I've been reading the posts on this site off and on for a number of years.

I recently started coming back here after deciding to grow my hair to my waist. It's currently around BSL. Just when I decided to grow my hair longer, I began noticing 2 things: 1. I have fairly new hair growth all around my head. It's about 5" long and it's all over. It makes my hair look a bit goofy, but my hair is so thin, it seemed to be a blessing. 2. I started losing a TON of hair! I normally shed quite a bit but nothing like this. My hair is considerably thinner now, and I'm losing both the longer hairs AND the newer hair!

I think the reason for the new growth is because a few months ago I began a new diet (new for me anyway!). I've been a vegan for 11 years with no problems, but I came across the 80/10/10 diet and started on that. It's mostly eating a ton of fruit all day and a salad for dinner, with very little added fats and no salt. After 2 weeks, I went on a modified version of this, because I just couldn't eat salads anymore. So, now I'm normally eating a lot of fruit for breakfast and lunch and then a low fat (sometimes slightly higher in fat) cooked vegan meal. However, now that I'm losing my hair I'm wondering if this is wrong? Should I add a little more fat?

Because of the hair loss, I've begun taking Hair Skin and Nail vitamins, which I always used to take and had much more hair. It doesn't seem to be helping though, which is why I'm questioning the fat intake.

Can anyone here help me, please?

Seems to me your body is telling you loud and clear how stressed it is, you really have me concerned. You say that you were fine as a vegan for eleven years yet go on to say you had acne, so your skin barrier has been problematic for some time. Have you had a registered dietician go over your weekly plan (few on LHC have any medical qualifications) or read a peer reviewed/ properly referenced nutrition textbook (not a commercial diet book)?

Are you sure your diet contains all the macro (protein, fat, carbs) micro nutrients (essential fatty acids and minerals not just vitamins) you need for basic health? How are you getting sufficient bioavailable vitamin D, omega-3s ideally long chain, calcium, magnesium, bioavailable iron, complete protein and so on? Are you physically active each day as per government recommendations? If so your needs for ALL nutrients are increased.

As a lifestyle healthcare professional I know that the more food groups one eliminates/ cuts down on the harder it is to get all the nutrients the body needs. Vegan is by no means an easy road because we simply didn't evolve for that, add in another restrictive diet and you have a recipe for disaster. You cannot live on little more than produce, that supplies only a very limited range of nutrients. Carbs alone or in excess spike and trough the blood sugar, so are pro inflammatory and put the body into a state of stress. Nutrient deficiencies further stress the body, it cannot distinguish between a fad diet and malnourishment (not just calories).

Please don't supplement small groups of micronutrients, these absorb and function synergistically and in opposition so randomly supplementing can do more harm than good by putting your body even further off balance. If your skin (scalp) is stressed your other organs will be too, it is easy to get all the nutrients the body needs and more from a balanced wholefood diet.

clioariane
August 8th, 2013, 06:43 AM
Not sure what a 'vegan' diet is but if it is a strict no red meat diet and you follow it strictly, there are 2 essential amino acids that you are no getting. Sorry I forget which ones they are. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, hair is 100% mixture of protein and amino acids. Before shortchanging your body essential tissues and muscles of protein, it will shortchange non-essential tissues, hair being one of the first.
A vegan diet allows no animal products. So definitely no meat but also no eggs, dairy and gelatin.

Fluffy01
August 8th, 2013, 07:57 AM
Please do some more research before continuing eating this way. I love animals too, but we weren't meant not to eat them. They are vital to our health. Saturated fats are actually the best form of fat we can eat, and fat is the most necessary nutrient for our body and brain. Please read Why we get fat by Gary taubes, Protein Power by Dr. eades, or even just visit the forum Zeroing In On Health....a google search should produce it.

Not to mention being a vegan is just as harmful to the environment if not more so due to all the chemicals it takes to produce the crops, which steal soil nutrients that animals need to thrive like cows.

Just hope you'll consider both sides. Thanks.

clioariane
August 8th, 2013, 08:29 AM
You can be very healthy and get all the nutrients you need on a vegan diet (just make sure to take supplements as well), but I don't think this 80/10/10 diet is healthy at all. You should have a more balanced diet with healthy fats and proteins. There is lots of literature available on the subject of plant-based diets, including great vegan cookbooks like the Veganomicon (http://www.theppk.com/books/veganomicon-the-ultimate-vegan-cookbook/).

Firefox7275
August 8th, 2013, 08:51 AM
Please do some more research before continuing eating this way. I love animals too, but we weren't meant not to eat them. They are vital to our health. Saturated fats are actually the best form of fat we can eat, and fat is the most necessary nutrient for our body and brain. Please read Why we get fat by Gary taubes, Protein Power by Dr. eades, or even just visit the forum Zeroing In On Health....a google search should produce it.

Not to mention being a vegan is just as harmful to the environment if not more so due to all the chemicals it takes to produce the crops, which steal soil nutrients that animals need to thrive like cows.

Just hope you'll consider both sides. Thanks.

Sorry but pseudoscience and half truths.

As well as plant material, humans evolved eating a ton of oily fish and other seafood especially molluscs, lean game animals including the organ meats, not inbred farm animals intensively reared on fields which have been cleared of trees/ lacking in biodiversity and then fattened up on grain in battery sheds. I am yet to see any westerner online or in real life that eats anything like our ancestors and very few who eat a well balanced low carb diet. I cringe at the sanitised western version most follow with no icky organ meats, icky molluscs, icky fish bones, icky bone marrow, etc.

It's quite possible to grow produce without chemicals, you can do it in your own back yard if you have one or go to an organic famers' market, many ethical vegetarians and vegans do. People are also vegetarian or vegan for cultural or religious reasons; nope I am not one of them I simply work in lifestyle healthcare so get to mop up the mess from badly planned low carb diets and badly planned veggie diets alike.

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 09:19 AM
fairview, thanks for the info. Yes, a vegan diet does not include any meat at all, nor any other animal products. This diet does, however, include all amino acids, from what I remember reading. That is, if you're including a wide variety of foods. Which is what I'm concerned about with this particular diet, considering it's mostly fruits. Somebody else brought that up about fat soluble vitamins, which hadn't occured to me either until now. So, thank you for that info.

chen bao jun, thank you for the good advice. I know, I was thinking about calling up a doctor about this too, but I don't want to go if it's going to start correcting itself at some point. Particularly if it's because of something like avoiding added fats, which I've been doing. I am getting some protein (about 40g) and a small amount of fats (fruit contains some fat - I never knew that). I do think you're right and that fats are something that are essential to add to the diet and I definitely need to add some back into my diet. I've gone from eating probably 40-50% of my diet as fat to under 10% and I just hope I haven't caused serious harm.

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 09:54 AM
Thank you, Firefox7275. I appreciate having the professional opinion as well. No, I haven't spoken to a dietician or read a nutrition textbook. I do need to clarify to you what my diet was like back when I did suffer from acne. Back then, I was eating mostly processed foods, and when it was something I made, it was stuff like cookies and cake (I used to bake a lot.). That was during a time in my life when I really hadn't made a complete connection between diet and health. As I've gotten older, I've started changing my diet over to a more whole foods based vegan diet. When I completely stopped eating the processed foods, and replaced them with veggies and nuts and seeds, I said goodbye to the acne issue. During that time, my hair was very thick and in pretty good shape.

It wasn't until recently that I've had concerns over my diet causing hair (and possible health) issues. So, I don't think it's the whole foods vegan diet that has done this at all. It's probably either too much fruit, if that's possible, or not enough fat. And now I'm considering the fact that I could be getting too little protein as well. Yes, I am pretty active. Which is why I aim for over 2000 calories/day (I weigh about 117 lbs) and I think most of my vitamin/mineral needs are being met, even on this newer diet I'm on. I think the only things I'm getting a lower amount of would be fat. After I read the book about the 80/10/10 diet, and began trying it out, I did realize that my iron, calcium, and a few other vitamins/minerals were at lower levels than the average diet, but according to someone I talked to about the diet (online), I was assured that on this particular diet, your vitamin needs aren't the same as others. I see now how that probably wasn't good advice to be listening to. I thought if I'd gotten enough calories I was doing well, but from what you tell me, that is wrong. I'm trying to wrap my head around this, so forgive me if I'm not making much sense.

Do you think I should add more fat? Do you think I'm eating too much fruit? (Here are four examples of what a meal of fruit would look like: 1/2 a watermelon or 8-10 ripe bananas or 10-12 medjool dates with 1 cup celery or 2 pineapples.) So, I'm usually eating 2 of those fruit meals and then a low fat cooked meal for dinner. I'm really not sure what to do and appreciate any guidance you can offer.

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 10:15 AM
Fluffy01, sorry we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I became a vegetarian almost 20 years ago and didn't thrive, as a matter of fact, was failing miserably on the diet because I was eating a TON of cheese and eggs, which are all saturated fats. Once I became a vegan, I finally felt healthy. I don't agree that humans were meant to eat meat. In fact, if we were, I don't believe we would suffer from many of the illnesses many of us do (heart disease, certain cancers, high blood pressure, kidney disease, Alzhiemer's, etc.)

Also, the produce I buy is almost all organic, so there are no chemicals. Of course, the person who consumes meat would be contributing to more environmental devistation, considering 70% of the (pesticide-ridden) grain grown in this country is fed to farm animals. Not to mention all the water it takes. And the waste from the animals. And the fact that farmers need to spray the animals with pesticides also. And the hormones, vaccines, and antibiotics they are injected with. And also, all the needless suffering the animals endure. For what purpose? So people can eat them and get sick. It's not necessary at all. None of it.

Also, 15 million children die every year from starvation. The US alone could feed 800 million people with the grain we feed to animals instead. Here is an article from Cornell University on that topicl. http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

Thanks for your response though.

alyanna
August 8th, 2013, 10:17 AM
I really believe that a balanced diet with sufficient nutrients AND calories is essential for good hair, especially if you are prone to hairloss. I am and was doing really well in that regard for the past 5 years or so with no major sheds. I have a bald patches in the crown area that had filled in and were no longer noticeable unless my hair was really greasy.

Then I went vegetarian. This was the second time I've tried this. Mind you I am in the health field and I know how to do my research. My diet was balanced and varied, or so I thought, but a few months into being veggie, my hair started to thin out and my bald patch showed up again. Needless to say, I'm back to eating meat even though half the time I can barely stand it. But it's made a huge difference in my energy levels.

Just so I am accurate about what happened, I also started taking Yaz around that time and was slacking off on my vitamins. I got tested and found I was low on Iron and Vitamin D3, so I am now supplementing. The only factor that now remains is the Pill and my dermatologist insists that Yaz should be helping my hair...

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 10:27 AM
Thank you, clioariane. Yes, I've read a lot of literature/cookbooks on the topic over the years. I do feel confident that a vegan diet is the way to go (for me, anyway) and you're right the 80/10/10 diet may be lacking, to say the least. I just tried it because the idea of not having to cook and eating all the fruit I wanted appealed to me. However, I see now that I should probably not have omitted any added fats. And omitting grains and beans was probably not a good thing for me either. I'm going to try to add these things back into my diet and hopefully end up with a well-balanced diet (and more hair I hope!).

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 10:42 AM
alyanna, thanks for the reply. When you became vegetarian, did you replace meat with dairy products? Just wondering, because that is what I did when I became vegetarian. Then, when I became a vegan my health improved. It improved much more when I switched to a whole foods vegan diet. And now, on this 80/10/10 diet, I think my health may be declining. I've discovered I need 1-2 extra hours of sleep now and of course, I'm now losing my hair. I've heard it could be detox, but I've been on this diet around 5 months now and I don't think that could be it at this point.

About the Yaz, I was on that too, a few years ago. I think it did make my hair thicker, but then when I went off it I had hair loss issues too.

I'm wondering if I too may have iron deficiency since going on this diet. I recently read that lack of iron (as well as lack of protein) can cause hair loss.

I hope your hair starts growing back soon. Good luck to you.

Panth
August 8th, 2013, 11:15 AM
Thank you, Firefox7275. I appreciate having the professional opinion as well. No, I haven't spoken to a dietician or read a nutrition textbook. I do need to clarify to you what my diet was like back when I did suffer from acne. Back then, I was eating mostly processed foods, and when it was something I made, it was stuff like cookies and cake (I used to bake a lot.). That was during a time in my life when I really hadn't made a complete connection between diet and health. As I've gotten older, I've started changing my diet over to a more whole foods based vegan diet. When I completely stopped eating the processed foods, and replaced them with veggies and nuts and seeds, I said goodbye to the acne issue. During that time, my hair was very thick and in pretty good shape.

It wasn't until recently that I've had concerns over my diet causing hair (and possible health) issues. So, I don't think it's the whole foods vegan diet that has done this at all. It's probably either too much fruit, if that's possible, or not enough fat. And now I'm considering the fact that I could be getting too little protein as well. Yes, I am pretty active. Which is why I aim for over 2000 calories/day (I weigh about 117 lbs) and I think most of my vitamin/mineral needs are being met, even on this newer diet I'm on. I think the only things I'm getting a lower amount of would be fat. After I read the book about the 80/10/10 diet, and began trying it out, I did realize that my iron, calcium, and a few other vitamins/minerals were at lower levels than the average diet, but according to someone I talked to about the diet (online), I was assured that on this particular diet, your vitamin needs aren't the same as others. I see now how that probably wasn't good advice to be listening to. I thought if I'd gotten enough calories I was doing well, but from what you tell me, that is wrong. I'm trying to wrap my head around this, so forgive me if I'm not making much sense.

Do you think I should add more fat? Do you think I'm eating too much fruit? (Here are four examples of what a meal of fruit would look like: 1/2 a watermelon or 8-10 ripe bananas or 10-12 medjool dates with 1 cup celery or 2 pineapples.) So, I'm usually eating 2 of those fruit meals and then a low fat cooked meal for dinner. I'm really not sure what to do and appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Quite frankly, your new diet is ridiculous. If you were acne-free by cutting down on processed foods, then why not just stick with that? Veganism is extreme enough, without restricting the diet even further. People seem to have this silly notion that fat and protein aren't also important parts of the diet - THEY ARE! Just because an excess is harmful, doesn't mean that a deficiency is not also harmful!

If I was you, I would go back to plain old veganism (or, rather, if it was really me I would just be omnivorous, but I guess you don't like that option). Try to eat a varied diet. Also, generally home-made meals/snacks are going to be healthier than commercial meals/snacks - so, if you want to "improve" and make a change, maybe try that. Another option (which I like) is to see if your budget can stretch to buying produce at farmers markets or similar. Challenge yourself to buy new produce and experiment with that. Or, maybe challenge yourself to eat more seasonally (that also forces variation into your diet).

Another thing - if you are vegan and don't supplement then it is quite likely that you are deficient in B12, as this vitamin is not found in plants. This can be quite a nasty vitamin deficiency as it can cause, among other things, anaemia and depression (yes, it can CAUSE depression). Also, once you reach a certain deficiency you become unable to absorb the vitamin, so it becomes increasingly difficult to correct the problem. If you suspect this might be the case, you're best to visit the doctor - they can test for deficiency and if necessary give you B12 injections to get the levels high enough so that dietary sources (dairy, meat or supplements) will be absorbed.

marymonster
August 8th, 2013, 11:36 AM
I'd add in some quinoa, nuts and seeds, avocado, coconut, maybe some tempeh although I'm not a fan of soy... and possibly some olive oil.

Anje
August 8th, 2013, 11:40 AM
In my opinion, if a diet is causing you to be more tired and your hair to fall out, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not healthy for you. It might work for some people, but it's silly to expect that something that's making you unhealthy will result in your becoming healthier the longer you stick to it. Clearly, your body needs something it's not getting.

So I'd suggest that you go to a more traditional ratio of carbs/fats/protein. You can still eat cleanly, and that might be sufficient to keep your acne at bay. It seems plausible to me, too, that the acne might be related to some of the hormone analogues found in some plant-based protein sources, such as soy. Research that a bit (because it's a shot in the dark and I'm not a nutritionist), and if your acne comes back while you maintain a low-processed foods vegan diet, you might try cutting it out and replacing it nutritionally.

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 12:38 PM
Panth, thanks for your opinion. Actually, I think everyone around me thinks the same thing about this new diet of mine. (They just haven't said it in so many words!) While I did get rid of my acne before I tried this diet, my skin is also much softer (like a baby's skin) and I think that's one reason I've been sticking with this for so long. I really wanted it to work for me. I do know that fat and protein are important, the real question is: How much is too much? And how much is too little? There's obviously a happy medium. I don't want to overdo it, but I also want to get adequate protein and fat.

You're right, an omnivorous diet is most certainly not an option for me. Vegan is the only way. And, I know it's possible to thrive on it, because I was for quite a while. Even while eating the processed foods that I used to eat, for me, it was still healthier than vegetarian or my meat-eating diets of the past.

I do know about the B12 issue. That's the only nutrient a vegan diet is lacking, which has nothing to do with the diet but with the soil we grow our foods in. However, there is something called nutritional yeast that a lot of vegans eat and it's full of B12 (among other nutrients). Also, my vitamins I started taking also contain B12, so I don't think that will be an issue for me. But, I do know it's still important to get your levels checked, and if I end up at the doctor over this, I will be sure to have them check my B12, as well as a few others.


marymonster, thank you so much for your suggestions. I was at the store today and I stocked up on a few cans of beans, quinoa, and some avocados. I was just thinking I should get some tempeh too, but my store doesn't sell it. (I also am a little leary of soy, but I always buy organic. Plus, I hear fermented soy is much healthier.)


Anje, yes, I do agree that it seems the diet's not right for me. But, when I feel how soft my skin is and how clear my eyes look and a few other things, I still wonder if it's truly that unhealthy. I know that it's not normal to lose hair on a healthy diet, so that's also telling me something, and the fatigue, but I guess I just wanted this to work so much, I'm willing to overlook some things. (Not this huge amount of hair loss, though!)

I don't think the soy caused my acne, although it is possible. It's so hard to say, but I do know that on the occasions I do sneak in a treat here or there I'll start getting pimples again. So, it could be soy margarine, or the sugar, or the wheat. I haven't been able to quite figure that one out.

Thanks for your suggestions! :D

Firefox7275
August 8th, 2013, 02:18 PM
Thank you, Firefox7275. I appreciate having the professional opinion as well. No, I haven't spoken to a dietician or read a nutrition textbook. I do need to clarify to you what my diet was like back when I did suffer from acne. Back then, I was eating mostly processed foods, and when it was something I made, it was stuff like cookies and cake (I used to bake a lot.). That was during a time in my life when I really hadn't made a complete connection between diet and health. As I've gotten older, I've started changing my diet over to a more whole foods based vegan diet. When I completely stopped eating the processed foods, and replaced them with veggies and nuts and seeds, I said goodbye to the acne issue. During that time, my hair was very thick and in pretty good shape.

It wasn't until recently that I've had concerns over my diet causing hair (and possible health) issues. So, I don't think it's the whole foods vegan diet that has done this at all. It's probably either too much fruit, if that's possible, or not enough fat. And now I'm considering the fact that I could be getting too little protein as well. Yes, I am pretty active. Which is why I aim for over 2000 calories/day (I weigh about 117 lbs) and I think most of my vitamin/mineral needs are being met, even on this newer diet I'm on. I think the only things I'm getting a lower amount of would be fat. After I read the book about the 80/10/10 diet, and began trying it out, I did realize that my iron, calcium, and a few other vitamins/minerals were at lower levels than the average diet, but according to someone I talked to about the diet (online), I was assured that on this particular diet, your vitamin needs aren't the same as others. I see now how that probably wasn't good advice to be listening to. I thought if I'd gotten enough calories I was doing well, but from what you tell me, that is wrong. I'm trying to wrap my head around this, so forgive me if I'm not making much sense.

Do you think I should add more fat? Do you think I'm eating too much fruit? (Here are four examples of what a meal of fruit would look like: 1/2 a watermelon or 8-10 ripe bananas or 10-12 medjool dates with 1 cup celery or 2 pineapples.) So, I'm usually eating 2 of those fruit meals and then a low fat cooked meal for dinner. I'm really not sure what to do and appreciate any guidance you can offer.

I don't understand why you rocked the boat from quitting eating junk if that cleared your skin?

You are still focussing on macronutrients and ignoring the impact of micronutrient deficiencies or imbalances, both are equally vital. I cannot see how your vitamin, mineral and essential fatty acid needs could possibly be ever be met on a vegan diet that is produce only for two meals - protein is not needed in huge quantities but it is needed little and often through the day or the body will cannibalise its 'stores' - the muscles, including your heart. Protein is needed for repair and maintenance of every cell in your body from immune system to muscles after exercise, right now I suspect your body has elected not to waste any precious protein on producing hair.

I always do my best to support clients on different types of diets (ethical vegan, religious vegetarian, diabetic low carb, gluten allergy) but there are times I have to tell them I am unable to help if they continue with a super restrictive diet, some restrictive practices border on eating disorder. The body needs a wide variety of different nutrients from a wide variety of different foods, not ten servings of the same fruit some of which are not particularly nutritious anyway. Nutritious produce is generally the bright and deep coloured stuff - you want to be limiting white/ pale (bananas, celery), eating more blue/ purple, dark green, red, yellow/ orange.

IMO throw any faddy diet book that advises eating dangerously restrictively in the trash, research a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet with a decent textbook and vegetarian/ vegan charity or society websites. Take vegan supplements for any nutrients you cannot get from your diet (B12, D, DHA, EPA, likely calcium, magnesium and iron) aim to eat far more than the minimum of every nutrient you can to make up for past deficiencies. A regular moderate to intense exercise regime, say four to five times a week, can easily double your body's requirements for every macro and micro nutrient.

Better still see your family doctor, a dermatologist or registered dietician. Just Googling the author suggests he is not a nutritionist/ dietician but a chiropractor. BTW you've done me a favour, I had heard of this diet but hadn't had cause to look it up until now.

YamaMaya
August 8th, 2013, 02:19 PM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a low fat diet is going to affect your hair. You can slather oil onto your hair and scalp but if you're not getting it in your diet, your body cannot produce sebum, which helps maintain your hair skin and nails and keeps them strong and pliant. Also, your diet seems to be lacking in protien as others have said. You cannot grow your hair without a sufficient amount of protien in your diet. Doesn't matter where you get it, you need to get it or your hair simply will not grow. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I don't want to give false hope, the raw food diet is an extremist way to live that severely limits your options for getting the nutrients you need not just for hair growth, but for overall health.

alyanna
August 8th, 2013, 02:24 PM
alyanna, thanks for the reply. When you became vegetarian, did you replace meat with dairy products? Just wondering, because that is what I did when I became vegetarian. Then, when I became a vegan my health improved. It improved much more when I switched to a whole foods vegan diet. And now, on this 80/10/10 diet, I think my health may be declining. I've discovered I need 1-2 extra hours of sleep now and of course, I'm now losing my hair. I've heard it could be detox, but I've been on this diet around 5 months now and I don't think that could be it at this point.

About the Yaz, I was on that too, a few years ago. I think it did make my hair thicker, but then when I went off it I had hair loss issues too.

I'm wondering if I too may have iron deficiency since going on this diet. I recently read that lack of iron (as well as lack of protein) can cause hair loss.

I hope your hair starts growing back soon. Good luck to you.

Hey Frizzywaves,
I didn't really replace my meat with dairy. I've always eaten cheese almost everyday. Rarely drink milk except for on my coffee, and I eat a 4 or 5 eggs every week. That did not change while I was vegetarian. I did increase my vegetable intake and my grains, beans and legumes. I wonder if it was the reduction in animal protein or the overall increase in carbs that might have affected my health. My overall caloric intake was higher. I felt hungrier and ate more. I was bloated from all the complex carbs and I was sleeping way, way more. I started noticing the hairloss around the 5 month mark too! And the thing is, I tried being vegetarian a few years ago as well and the exact same thing happened. I felt like this time I was more diligent about balancing my diet, but I guess my natural disposition is to feel better eating more animals and fewer grain-beans-legumes. Who knows?

I really hope Yaz isn't hurting my hair because I feel better on it than without it. I'm seeing my GP tomorrow about it though!

Nesoi
August 8th, 2013, 02:29 PM
I was on a very low, well, everything diet last year (an experience I won't be repeating) and my hair stopped growing at all. I have progress pictures from each month and there was no growth. It was quite strange to see, as my hair usually grows reasonably quickly. I also found that it started to shed A LOT. I was used to sheds when my hair was WL, but at the time it wasn't even to my chin! I found that when I started eating healthily, my hair stopped falling out and started growing again. I hope diet alterations can help with your hair loss too!

Firefox7275
August 8th, 2013, 02:55 PM
Fluffy01, sorry we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I became a vegetarian almost 20 years ago and didn't thrive, as a matter of fact, was failing miserably on the diet because I was eating a TON of cheese and eggs, which are all saturated fats. Once I became a vegan, I finally felt healthy. I don't agree that humans were meant to eat meat. In fact, if we were, I don't believe we would suffer from many of the illnesses many of us do (heart disease, certain cancers, high blood pressure, kidney disease, Alzhiemer's, etc.)

Also, the produce I buy is almost all organic, so there are no chemicals. Of course, the person who consumes meat would be contributing to more environmental devistation, considering 70% of the (pesticide-ridden) grain grown in this country is fed to farm animals. Not to mention all the water it takes. And the waste from the animals. And the fact that farmers need to spray the animals with pesticides also. And the hormones, vaccines, and antibiotics they are injected with. And also, all the needless suffering the animals endure. For what purpose? So people can eat them and get sick. It's not necessary at all. None of it.

Also, 15 million children die every year from starvation. The US alone could feed 800 million people with the grain we feed to animals instead. Here is an article from Cornell University on that topicl. http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

Thanks for your response though.

A balanced vegetarian diet wouldn't contain a ton of eggs and cheese, the same amount of dairy is recommended as for omnivores. Neither milk nor plain yoghurt nor many soft cheeses are packed with saturated fats, a serving of hard cheese is small (UK 30g), eggs are not as bad as many think at roughly 12% fat. Humans did evolve eating relatively lean game meat tho we can do very well without any land animal meat. Humans evolved eating far more fish and seafood, this is reflected in our need for omega-3s and vitamin D, in the evidence for the 'out of Africa' theory map, in prehistoric mollusc shell middens, pre-dairy fish bones and meat bone broth would have been a major source of calcium.

Humans did not evolve eating substantial amounts of single grains and pulses tho we have adapted in a similar way to adapting to dairy, just what we could gather so likely something akin to modern day broth mix (a mix of barley, split peas, lentils, whole rolled oats). We can convert short chain omega-3s to the useable long chain format but the process is highly inefficient, as low as 10% which makes the amount of high omega-3/ low omega-6 seeds (chia, ground flax) we need to eat each day prohibitive. However, as no doubt you know, nuts and seeds are excellent sources of minerals, protein and some vitamins.

Whilst in no way am I defending the nonsensical position that humans 'need' piles of saturated fats or land animal protein, they alone are not to blame for lifestyle disease that is a long debunked concept. There is increasing evidence that excess carbohydrates play a major role - spikes and troughs in blood glucose, causing systemic inflammation, suppressing immune function. New research is implicating the fruit sugar fructose as being particularly damaging tho clearly this is partly the form it's often taken in (high fructose corn syrup). Wheat is another major issue, not the gluten as some claim but the sheer quantities and frequency we eat it and the form (invariably highly processed, rarely whole wheat berries).

That is then combined with sedentary behaviour (inflammatory), obesity (inflammatory), poor intake of oily fish (anti inflammatory), poor intake of low sugar fruits and non starchy vegetables (antioxidant/ anti inflammatory). Some evidence for the link with carbohydrates is in the long known outcomes for type 2 diabetics - cardiovascular disease including hypertension, increased risk for various cancers, damage to the small blood vessels in the extremities, kidney, eye and brain. Early research is suggesting a link between insulin resistance and Alzheimers so basically all the conditions you alluded to! Diabetes (1 or 2) is associated with various micronutrient deficiencies, and a diagnosis confers automatic 'high risk' in the fitness industry.

leslissocool
August 8th, 2013, 03:33 PM
That is then combined with sedentary behaviour (inflammatory), obesity (inflammatory), poor intake of oily fish (anti inflammatory), poor intake of low sugar fruits and non starchy vegetables (antioxidant/ anti inflammatory). Some evidence for the link with carbohydrates is in the long known outcomes for type 2 diabetics - cardiovascular disease including hypertension, increased risk for various cancers, damage to the small blood vessels in the extremities, kidney, eye and brain. Early research is suggesting a link between insulin resistance and Alzheimers so basically all the conditions you alluded to! Diabetes (1 or 2) is associated with various micronutrient deficiencies, and a diagnosis confers automatic 'high risk' in the fitness industry.

OP, I don't think she's disagreeing with your veganism. Rather, the diet you are on specifically.


I'm not a medical professional, rather I'm an avid nutrition reader (not fad diets), but if you are eliminating a whole group of foods like animal products you are going to have to supplement. That's ok, not optimal, but add that to eating only fruits, and your diet became not only too restrictive, but you put wholes in your nutritional intake (macro AND micro, from what I see).


The reason why I suggested the protein shake is because, yes you might only get 10gs, but it's fast acting protein more than you are getting now ( it's fast absorbent). When you work out, specially with weights, you tear the muscle fibers and thus your body "repairs it" by using protein, fat and amino acids to fill it in (creating muscle). Which is why, a bit of extra protein is good after a workout for recovery (along with BCAA's which are harder to find in food, even as an omnivore). So at breakfast, when you wake up and your brain needs to function, a protein shake with fruit can give you sustained energy source (protein and fat slow down how much sugar goes into your blood stream, preventing spikes).


You can be vegan, supplement and be in optimal shape, I think firefox is saying that you can't with the current diet you have.Which, I honestly thought when you said "high carb vegan, no processed" you didn't mean only fruit but rather mostly vegetables, and 3-5 servings of fruit which is what's recommended usually. You really aren't getting all the nutrients you need with your current diet, that's why your hair is shedding. It's too restrictive even for a vegan diet.


*quoted part, is very very true. In fact I have stress induced hypertension and it's not animal sources, rather processed carbs and sugars that make me feel ill. Because of my hypertension, I eat like a diabetic. And that doesn't mean cheese wrapped in bacon, but rather a solid foundation of veggies, 3-5 servings of fruit, protein as needed for my activity level, and a reasonable amount of nuts/fats. I get all my carbs from there (about 80-100gs, more on lifting days). I was able to get off blood thinners that way, and manage my hypertension.

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 04:13 PM
Firefox7275, why did I change my diet when the previous one was working for me? Well, I'm always trying to improve myself, whether it's my diet or how I parent or finances....anything I come across. I like to read about people who live differently than I do, take what I can from their experiences, and apply them to my life. Sometimes I fail miserably, but most of the time it works out and I'm all the better for it. That said, I somehow came across some youtube videos of various people who greatly improved their health on this diet. Some have overcome diabetes, morbid obesity, hypoglycemia, even alcoholism. I was impressed, to say the least. So, I decided to try it.

I'm a bit confused when you talk about micro vs. macronutrients. I'm guessing macronutrients are fat, proteins, and carbs and micronutrients are vitamins/minerals? Fruit does contain protein, apparently not as much as I need, but it is there. As for the fruits I choose not being nutritious, I'm pretty sure they are. There is a website I use called Cronometer. When I log in, for example, 9 medium sized bananas, I find that they contain the following nutrients: 945 calories, almost 12 g protein, 3.5 g fat (26% of my omega 3s, 4% omega 6, and 6% saturated fat), 30% of my daily allowance for B1, 70% B2, 50% Niacin, 71% B5, 300% B6, 53% folate, 5% Vit. A, 123% Vit. C, 7% E, 6%K, 5% calcium, 92% copper, 15% iron, 90% magnesium, 159% manganese, 33% phosphorus, 81% potassium, 19% selenium, 20% zinc.

That seems pretty nutritious to me, although very low in fat. You can add any other type of fruit in there and see for yourself, fruit is much more nutritious than they lead us to believe. And that's just one meal. I eat three times a day.

Yes, the author is a chiropractor, but he's been studying nutrition for decades and I'd assume he knows his stuff. It's obviously worked for many people, it's just not right for me.

Thanks for the advice.

frizzywaves
August 8th, 2013, 04:51 PM
Hi, YamaMaya. You're right about the sebum production. I have noticed that my skin is no longer oily and I don't have as many oils on my scalp either. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for my acne, but when it comes to my hair and probably wrinkles, it's going to have a negative impact.

I guess this would be another question I have, about the protein. You bring up the fact that hair doesn't grow without protein. But, I dye my hair (bad, I know) and I can clearly see my roots showing right now. My hair is growing almost exactly .5" a month. However, I'm losing new growth that is only 5" long, along with the older hairs which are probably around 20-24" long. So, while my hair is still growing, I'm also losing hair.


alyanna, it sounds like you replaced meats with all the right things then. I don't know what could have caused it - I wish I did! I did just read something today that too many carbs may cause hair loss. That is something I need to look into. I don't think it was from a reliable website (the guy was trying to sell a diet book...).

That's funny, I used to feel better on Yaz too. I think I'm too old to be on it now - my doctor doesn't even mention it, but I do finally feel good without it so I guess it doesn't matter for me. How long have you been on it? I would think after a few months, it should start to help with the hair loss and you should see new growth. Not really sure though.


Thanks, Nesoi. Yes, I'm also hoping for better results as I add more fats and proteins back into my diet. I'm sure stressing out over it isn't helping me much, but it's so hard to stop when I've got hair all over the place! :(


Firefox7275, in regards to sugar (carbs) causing inflammation, I hope you look into the diet a litle more. It'll explain it MUCH better than I ever could. But, in short, the idea is to eat a diet high in carbs for energy and good health, while eating small amounts of fat, which actually hold the sugars in your veins (???) and don't allow the sugar to go directly to the cells. I guess if you eat carbs with no/little fat, the sugar goes right to your cells within a matter of minutes. It is when you add too much fat that there will be a problem with diabetes, Alzhiemer's, heart disease, even candida because the sugars are just sitting there, not able to go where they are so badly needed. So, that's the idea. I hope that helped clear it up a little. :)


Thanks, leslissocool. Yes, I understand a lot of people aren't agreeing with this particular diet. I guess it's something I'm used to though - I became a vegetarian when I was very young and family became worried, I became a vegan right after I had my first child and family started voicing their opinions, then I tried raw a couple years ago and people again looked at me like I was doing something wrong, and now this diet. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what this diet is lacking so I can make sure I add it back into my diet. I don't know if I'll stay on this diet or not. Maybe a very modified version of it. But I want to be in good health and if I'm lacking something, that is certainly not desirable.

I'm glad you were able to manage your hypertension through your diet. It's probably going to be a lot more experimenting for me. I do know from so many testimonials that a change to a vegan diet (not the particular one I'm on, although I'm sure they're out there as well) has helped people with hypertension. While it could be too many carbs for some people, it could be too much saturated fats for another person. Or salt. Or stress. Two other big factors, I know.

You seem very knowledgeable and I do appreciate your advice.

Firefox7275
August 8th, 2013, 05:16 PM
Firefox7275, why did I change my diet when the previous one was working for me? Well, I'm always trying to improve myself, whether it's my diet or how I parent or finances....anything I come across. I like to read about people who live differently than I do, take what I can from their experiences, and apply them to my life. Sometimes I fail miserably, but most of the time it works out and I'm all the better for it. That said, I somehow came across some youtube videos of various people who greatly improved their health on this diet. Some have overcome diabetes, morbid obesity, hypoglycemia, even alcoholism. I was impressed, to say the least. So, I decided to try it.

I'm a bit confused when you talk about micro vs. macronutrients. I'm guessing macronutrients are fat, proteins, and carbs and micronutrients are vitamins/minerals? Fruit does contain protein, apparently not as much as I need, but it is there. As for the fruits I choose not being nutritious, I'm pretty sure they are. There is a website I use called Cronometer. When I log in, for example, 9 medium sized bananas, I find that they contain the following nutrients: 945 calories, almost 12 g protein, 3.5 g fat (26% of my omega 3s, 4% omega 6, and 6% saturated fat), 30% of my daily allowance for B1, 70% B2, 50% Niacin, 71% B5, 300% B6, 53% folate, 5% Vit. A, 123% Vit. C, 7% E, 6%K, 5% calcium, 92% copper, 15% iron, 90% magnesium, 159% manganese, 33% phosphorus, 81% potassium, 19% selenium, 20% zinc.

That seems pretty nutritious to me, although very low in fat. You can add any other type of fruit in there and see for yourself, fruit is much more nutritious than they lead us to believe. And that's just one meal. I eat three times a day.

Yes, the author is a chiropractor, but he's been studying nutrition for decades and I'd assume he knows his stuff. It's obviously worked for many people, it's just not right for me.

Thanks for the advice.

As I posted earlier - macros are fat protein and carbohydrates, micros are vitamins minerals and essential fatty acids (also antioxidants but there are no specific minimum requirements of those, just guidelines to eat seven to nine servings of different produce in the full rainbow of colours). No faceless 'they' is leading me to believe anything that sounds remarkably like a conspiracy theory! I studied this at degree level, have read published studies and fully referenced textbooks, do nutrition consults for clients at work.

I didn't suggest all fruit is not nutritious, for the calories bananas are poor nutritionally, they are low in antioxidants for a start. 945 calories is roughly half your daily intake of calories and counts as just one food and just one serving towards your seven to nine a day. You should consider the bioavailable/ useable forms of nutrients, bananas contain vitamin A precursor, short chain omega-3s, not a complete form of protein for example. Also how micronutrients act in partnership - magnesium with calcium, iron with vitamin C and so on. And the effect of that amount of sugar on your system - 125g or TWENTY FIVE teaspoons for nine medium bananas! - which is pro inflammatory and immune suppressing, puts the body into a state of stress which increases your body's needs for micronutrients.

Compare bananas to blueberries, raspberries, blackcurrants, redcurrants, sour cherries and blackberries or better still a medley of all six: several of these help you hit your target of eating from the blue/ purple family - there being few widely available blue/ purple vegetables - and all are packed with antioxidant phytonutrients. Or to oily fish or organ meats or molluscs (I appreciate you don't eat any of those, it's a general comparison).

I find it frightening that you want to defend something so restrictive, perhaps that is my fault for coming on too strong so I will duck out after this post. IMO it's not normal or healthy to eat nine bananas, that is mimicking how some with eating disorders live. Best of luck, I genuinely hope the shedding stops soon.

Renaissance
August 8th, 2013, 09:26 PM
Frizzywaves, carbohydrates are the only macronutrient that humans have zero need for in order to be healthy.

By cutting down your protein and fat so drastically, you are asking for a lot of health woes. Hair loss is going to be only the beginning of your troubles, I'm afraid, unless you change course.

On this 80-10-10 plan, you are also very likely to be eating far too few calories for your body's basic needs, which will cause your body to begin cannibalizing itself.

The good news is that your hair *will* grow back--in a couple of years it may be shoulder-length again--but only if you feed your body properly. By the way, if you choose to remain vegan, be sure you are supplementing plenty of B-12, which you cannot get in a vegan diet but which is necessary for hair and skin health.

Good luck! Hair loss is no fun!

lunalocks
August 8th, 2013, 09:47 PM
Please make sure you have 1.) Iron. You will not get enough iron in a vegan diet unless you cook your vegies in an iron frying pan. Please take a supplement. 2.) Vitamin B12. This is lacking in a vegan diet. You NEED to take a supplement. There are vegan supplements. and 3.) enough total protein. Salad is not enough. You need to mix grains and legumes, or legumes and seeds/nuts, or grain and seed/nuts. This is what makes a total protein for a vegan diet. Brown rice and beans. Quinoia and any legume. Corn or corn meal and beans. Please check out and read Diet for a Small Planet for details.

You also need some fat in your diet. And complex carbs are fine and necessary. Fruits and vegies are full of complex carbs.

Renaissance
August 8th, 2013, 09:49 PM
You also need some fat in your diet. And complex carbs are fine and necessary.

They actually aren't necessary at all. :)

clioariane
August 9th, 2013, 02:07 AM
Thank you, clioariane. Yes, I've read a lot of literature/cookbooks on the topic over the years. I do feel confident that a vegan diet is the way to go (for me, anyway) and you're right the 80/10/10 diet may be lacking, to say the least. I just tried it because the idea of not having to cook and eating all the fruit I wanted appealed to me. However, I see now that I should probably not have omitted any added fats. And omitting grains and beans was probably not a good thing for me either. I'm going to try to add these things back into my diet and hopefully end up with a well-balanced diet (and more hair I hope!).
Good luck with improving your diet! I was raised vegetarian and was vegan for about 1,5 years but am now pescetarian (no meat except fish) which works the best for me. I find that I'm at my healthiest (and leanest) when I do incorporate some animal protein (salmon and eggs mainly) in my diet. For a long time I struggled with finding the right balance between protein, carbs and fats but once I learned more about what an adult female needs in terms of nutrition it became a lot easier. On the topic of hair; I never used to eat protein for breakfast but when I read Philip Kingsley (a respected trichologist) recommends consuming 120g protein for breakfast & lunch (http://blog.philipkingsley.com/2011/08/17/your-hair-health-and-your-diet/) I started doing this and I can truly say that my hair has never been healthier.

frizzywaves
August 9th, 2013, 06:12 AM
Renaissance, thank you! Do you happen to have any info on what you said about carbs not being necessary? It just confused me, because I was always under the impression that we DO need carbs for all body functions (as well as fats and proteins). Our brains cannot function properly without fuel, and they are fueled by glucose, which is most easily absorbed from fruit. Our bodies also convert starches over to glucose, but it takes more time and energy, from what I understand. So, this is news to me. :)

I see now that it was a HUGE mistake to cut down so drastically on fat and protein. I plan to incorporate them back into my diet immediately.

The one thing about this diet, is that I'm almost 100% positive I've been getting enough calories, as I have gained weight on the diet. But, I do realize that I need to make sure I'm eating enough of the right foods, and I plan to keep counting calories, as well as keeping track of protein and fat grams from now on.

I did just begin taking my hair, skin, and nail vitamins and they do contain B12. I also plan to eat nutritional yeast on occasion because it also contains B12.

Thanks again for the wonderful suggestions!

frizzywaves
August 9th, 2013, 06:28 AM
lunalocks, thank you for your suggestions. I think I'm going to have to look into the iron issue. I'm pretty sure the vitamins I started taking don't contain it, so maybe I'll have to try to find one that does next time. My vitamins do contain B12, so that is probably something I don't need to worry about right now. I'm finding out that my needs for protein are probably much greater than what I'd thought and yes, I plan to incorporate many of the foods you've suggested into my diet from now on.


Thanks again, clioariane. If you don't mind my asking, since you were raised vegetarian, what made you feel like you needed to eat meat (fish) to improve your diet? Just wondering, no judgment or anything. I'm mainly curious because I'm raising children right now and if they may be lacking something, I'd really like to know. (They are NOT on the 80/10/10 diet, by the way, nor would I ever advise anyone to put a child on the diet.)

Also, how in the world do you consume 120g of protein for breakfast and lunch? I'm not even eating half that amount at the moment.

frizzywaves
August 9th, 2013, 06:38 AM
I'd like to thank everyone who added their nonjudgmental suggestions to me. I am very grateful that so many of you seem to truly want to help me figure this out! If it weren't for many of you, I wouldn't have even suspected it could be a protein issue, and I'm pretty sure that's a huge issue right now.

So, I'm tweaking my diet so that I raise my protein and fat consumption. I have added chlorella this morning, which has already raised my protein intake by almost 20g (I've gone from 40-45g/day to 60-65g/day. Still not ideal, probably, but a huge improvement nonetheless.) I plan to eat more whole grains and beans and may even start incorporating wheat back into my diet and see if I can handle it. I will also begin adding more nuts and seeds into my diet for fat, avocadoes, and possibly some coconut oil.

I hope to see some improvement in a few months. I know my hair will still be extremely thin, but I will be so relieved if I stop seeing hair all over the shower and the floors around my house. I'd like to keep everyone updated, if possible, so that hopefully this can help someone else who may be going through something similar.

Thanks again, everyone. You have been so very helpful to me! :D

alyanna
August 9th, 2013, 07:25 AM
alyanna, it sounds like you replaced meats with all the right things then. I don't know what could have caused it - I wish I did! I did just read something today that too many carbs may cause hair loss. That is something I need to look into. I don't think it was from a reliable website (the guy was trying to sell a diet book...).

That's funny, I used to feel better on Yaz too. I think I'm too old to be on it now - my doctor doesn't even mention it, but I do finally feel good without it so I guess it doesn't matter for me. How long have you been on it? I would think after a few months, it should start to help with the hair loss and you should see new growth. Not really sure though.



First off, thank you for starting this interesting discussion! I know there are a lot of people around here interested in nutrition, myself being one of them, so this thread is very useful. I hope you don't feel attacked or overly criticized about your diet. Everyone is just trying to help.

I did follow a "by the book" veggie diet and I put a lot of time and effort into planning it. I honestly think too many carbs do not agree with me. I'm leaning more toward primal right now, but no where near "by the book". I'll still have toast for breakfast, and rice for dinner, but just reduced portions. I'm significantly upping fresh fruits and veggies, making sure I get some animal protein at every meal, even if it's just some greek yogurt, and try to reduce overall dairy and grains. I feel much better, my weight is under control and my stomach is not a big, hard round ball!!!

As for Yaz, I've been on it for 9 months. I noticed right away an improvement in my skin, no more breakouts AT ALL, but I also noticed that my hair is shedding more and right away it seemed to have...flattened. It's almost like the individual strands became finer. Also, I just turned 35, so I'm concerned about being on Yaz. My FIL who is an oncologist flat out told me I shouldn't be on any hormonal contraceptive. OBGYNs have disagreed so far, but I am having some worrisome side-effects, which is why I'm visiting my GP today.

frizzywaves
August 9th, 2013, 10:14 AM
You're welcome, alyanna, I'm glad you found the discussion interesting! :) No, I didn't feel like most people attacked me, though there were a couple who attacked the diet as a whole, which is fine, but I do feel like I was personally attacked by someone too. That's okay though! Everyone is different with different beliefs. I know I wouldn't have tried this diet if I didn't have an open mind about things, and I feel like I've learned quite a bit from that, even if the diet didn't work for me the way I'd hoped.

I'm glad to hear your diet is helping you feel better (and weight loss is a nice bonus! lol) One thing I just recently learned is that if you're going to follow a diet, you should listen to your body right away. If something doesn't feel right, you shouldn't feel badly about having to try a variation of the diet instead. I'm glad to hear your listening to your cravings and adding certain carbs when you feel you need them. I don't think I'll ever ignore another craving of mine again! lol

I was on Yaz twice, and I wish I could remember exactly what was going on with my hair both times. I do know my acne cleared up, although the second time didn't clear it up completely, which is why I went off it. The first time I was on it, I felt wonderful and the second time I felt okay, but not like the first time. I don't ever recall losing my hair while on it, or my hair becoming a different texture. Like I said before, though, when I went off it both times, I did lose hair. If your FIL is an oncologist, I would probably listen to him and check into going off the pill. That seems a little scary to me. But that's just me, you know your own body better than anyone. I do remember being worried about cancer the last time I was on it and my OB/GYN told me I didn't need to worry because I'm not a candidate for cancer (no family history, normal weight, healthy diet, active). I think I was 33 at the time (I'm 36 now) and he said it would be safe for me to be on it until menopause (whenever that would be). I'm still not so sure about that, but it's obviously a personal decision that gets more difficult as we get older, I think. If you're worried about the side-effects though, maybe you should reconsider (maybe even go on a different pill and see if that helps?)

I hope you can figure something out about your hair soon. I know how bad it probably makes you feel.

Panth
August 9th, 2013, 11:00 AM
I'd like to thank everyone who added their nonjudgmental suggestions to me. I am very grateful that so many of you seem to truly want to help me figure this out! If it weren't for many of you, I wouldn't have even suspected it could be a protein issue, and I'm pretty sure that's a huge issue right now.

So, I'm tweaking my diet so that I raise my protein and fat consumption. I have added chlorella this morning, which has already raised my protein intake by almost 20g (I've gone from 40-45g/day to 60-65g/day. Still not ideal, probably, but a huge improvement nonetheless.) I plan to eat more whole grains and beans and may even start incorporating wheat back into my diet and see if I can handle it. I will also begin adding more nuts and seeds into my diet for fat, avocadoes, and possibly some coconut oil.

I hope to see some improvement in a few months. I know my hair will still be extremely thin, but I will be so relieved if I stop seeing hair all over the shower and the floors around my house. I'd like to keep everyone updated, if possible, so that hopefully this can help someone else who may be going through something similar.

Thanks again, everyone. You have been so very helpful to me! :D

I hope you did not think I was being judgemental in my previous post. I only meant that your diet was ridiculous - but you are not, as demonstrated by your willingness to change your mind.

However, I hope you will think harder about your diet. It is NOT that this diet has caused a "protein issue". It is causing an EVERYTHING issue. Too little protein. Too little fat. Too much carbs, and quite likely in forms that are quickly metabolised and cause glucose spikes (e.g. 8 bananas in one sitting). Too few vitamins. Too few minerals. Its the whole diet that is a problem, not just the lack of protein!

frizzywaves
August 9th, 2013, 02:27 PM
No, Panth, I didn't think you were being judgmental of me, I understood you were talking about the diet. :D I just felt like my intellect was being judged by someone else on the fact that I just haphazardly jumped into this diet that practically no one has ever tried, let alone heard of. And that's not the case. I did plenty of research on the diet prior to trying it out. I just don't feel like I should ask for advice and be attacked that way, you know? I feel like most people here were trying to help, and that's what I'm focusing on, because I think everyone gave such good advice. Whether they agreed with the diet or not! lol

Yes, I do see that it was a combination of everything in this new diet that probably caused me to start losing my hair. I will most definitely keep that in mind, always.

Thanks again!

P.S. BTW, I know you don't agree with the diet, and it so obviously didn't work for me, but there are people out there who swear by it. I know it's literally saved many people's lives, so I'm by no means saying that nobody should ever go on the diet. I'm just saying some people require a little more than others and I'm one of them.

WilfredAllen
August 9th, 2013, 06:55 PM
I was vegan for a few years (:

If a nutritional deficiency is showing up in your hair it will eventually start affecting the rest of the body. Fat is an essential nutrient: it carries vitamins and minerals, creates the myelin sheath of neurons, produces sebum and is used by every cell in the body. Eat more fat lol (:

Also, you mention you aren't eating much salt... salt is important too - it's an electrolyte and, in the right quantity, keeps you hydrated. I would start sprinkling a bit of salt on your meals - too much salt will dehydrate you also, so don't go crazy lol. If you are feeling dehydrated, but not retaining water, then it's time to add salt and potentially other electrolytes (potassium, calcium). That's not a hair issue, but a problem I had as a vegan. [edit: actually it could be, I dunno]

Also, it's been mentioned, but get enough protein. This means balancing nuts, grains and legumes. Not just one.


If you're still having hair issues (or any other issues) with being vegan, you should switch back to your old diet, IMHO. Hair is like a canary in a coal mine - it's often a good early indicator of the state of your overall health. Veganism is fantastic for some bodies, but awful for others. Find what works for you (:



http://www.3fatchicks.com/the-3-macronutrients-and-their-functions/

WilfredAllen
August 9th, 2013, 07:12 PM
also, get your iron levels tested. I had no problems with iron being vegan, but others do. Get your iron levels tested before taking an iron supplement. Iron deficiency can cause hair loss.

clioariane
August 11th, 2013, 04:36 AM
Thanks again, clioariane. If you don't mind my asking, since you were raised vegetarian, what made you feel like you needed to eat meat (fish) to improve your diet? Just wondering, no judgment or anything. I'm mainly curious because I'm raising children right now and if they may be lacking something, I'd really like to know. (They are NOT on the 80/10/10 diet, by the way, nor would I ever advise anyone to put a child on the diet.)

I was affected by a hormonal imbalance due too many soy products in my diet, which is why I switched from vegetarian to pescetarian. From what I understand the plant estrogen can interfere with our own. Here's an article (http://www.paleoforwomen.com/phytoestrogens-estrogens-and-estrogen-receptors/) about it. (I know you can be vegetarian or vegan without consuming too much soy but I wanted to add the nutritional benefits of salmon to my diet.) I do still eat soy sometimes but in limited amounts.

About the protein; Philip Kingsley has some hair-related nutritional recommendations in this blog (http://blog.philipkingsley.com/2013/06/11/nutritional-tips-for-healthy-hair/). I usually have a spinach omelette or yogurt with blueberries for breakfast.

I hope that helps!

Nesoi
August 11th, 2013, 04:53 AM
I don't mean to thread hijack but OMG clioariane your Westeros beauty blog! I'm obsessed...

clioariane
August 11th, 2013, 04:57 AM
I don't mean to thread hijack but OMG clioariane your Westeros beauty blog! I'm obsessed...
haha thanks so much!

Othala
August 11th, 2013, 05:36 AM
Fantastic blog clioariane. Very clever!

/hijack

Fluffy01
September 1st, 2013, 08:37 AM
Sorry but pseudoscience and half truths.

As well as plant material, humans evolved eating a ton of oily fish and other seafood especially molluscs, lean game animals including the organ meats, not inbred farm animals intensively reared on fields which have been cleared of trees/ lacking in biodiversity and then fattened up on grain in battery sheds. I am yet to see any westerner online or in real life that eats anything like our ancestors and very few who eat a well balanced low carb diet. I cringe at the sanitised western version most follow with no icky organ meats, icky molluscs, icky fish bones, icky bone marrow, etc.

It's quite possible to grow produce without chemicals, you can do it in your own back yard if you have one or go to an organic famers' market, many ethical vegetarians and vegans do. People are also vegetarian or vegan for cultural or religious reasons; nope I am not one of them I simply work in lifestyle healthcare so get to mop up the mess from badly planned low carb diets and badly planned veggie diets alike.

Not pseudoscience at all. I agree about the bone marrow and organs...I just didn't want to get that detailed on her. Homemade bone broth is very nutritious and necessary as well as liver and the like. Just look at the Inuits. However, fat is a very necessary nutrient that I wanted to point out since she is only eating 10% fat.

And if you are in the healthcare profession, you should know that anything that spikes insulin too high (any form of carb including veggies depending on how metabolically damaged you are) can cause damage over time. And yes, even low carb can be bad if you aren't eating enough FAT. Otherwise, you're left with rabbit starvation from too much lean protein.

goldcopperbrown
September 1st, 2013, 09:44 AM
Mmmhm how's your protein intake? I'd add a vegan protein shake for breakfast and maybe some coconut oil.


Lack of iron, protein and omega 3 often cause sheds.

I agree! Protein is the important thing here.

jen5972
September 1st, 2013, 09:54 AM
I was a vegan for quite some time, and also a raw foodist. At first I felt great and lost weight. Then I started looking and feeling terrible. My hair was brittle, my skin was dry and pale, and I was so tired all the time. It wasn't until I started eating meat again that I looked and felt better, and my hair looked healthy again. I know that many advocate a vegan diet, but it is very hard for some to get adequate protein amounts as a vegan. I eat a more paleo type diet now, and my skin and hair have never looked better.

LilBoPeep
September 1st, 2013, 07:04 PM
No science here just my opinion, after being a low fat raw vegan for 3 months and low fat half raw half cooked foods vegan, for 6 months my hair was shot. At first it was all ok but after a few months my bsl curly hair was falling out and breaking like crazy. It was maybe 3 inches shorter when I gave up on vegan and way thinner. I dont think low fat is good for hair at all.

Emichiee
September 1st, 2013, 07:20 PM
I don't want to discus diet, just share my experience:

I eat a high fat (good fats), moderate carb Paleo diet and overall my hair has bettered.

Firefox7275
September 2nd, 2013, 04:03 AM
Not pseudoscience at all. I agree about the bone marrow and organs...I just didn't want to get that detailed on her. Homemade bone broth is very nutritious and necessary as well as liver and the like. Just look at the Inuits. However, fat is a very necessary nutrient that I wanted to point out since she is only eating 10% fat.

And if you are in the healthcare profession, you should know that anything that spikes insulin too high (any form of carb including veggies depending on how metabolically damaged you are) can cause damage over time. And yes, even low carb can be bad if you aren't eating enough FAT. Otherwise, you're left with rabbit starvation from too much lean protein.

As I said in post 39
"Whilst in no way am I defending the nonsensical position that humans 'need' piles of saturated fats or land animal protein, they alone are not to blame for lifestyle disease that is a long debunked concept. There is increasing evidence that excess carbohydrates play a major role - spikes and troughs in blood glucose, causing systemic inflammation, suppressing immune function. New research is implicating the fruit sugar fructose as being particularly damaging tho clearly this is partly the form it's often taken in (high fructose corn syrup). Wheat is another major issue, not the gluten as some claim but the sheer quantities and frequency we eat it and the form (invariably highly processed, rarely whole wheat berries)."


You did not simply claim that fat is important, in post 24 you said
"Please do some more research before continuing eating this way. I love animals too, but we weren't meant not to eat them. They are vital to our health. Saturated fats are actually the best form of fat we can eat, and fat is the most necessary nutrient for our body and brain. Please read Why we get fat by Gary taubes, Protein Power by Dr. eades, or even just visit the forum Zeroing In On Health....a google search should produce it. Not to mention being a vegan is just as harmful to the environment if not more so due to all the chemicals it takes to produce the crops, which steal soil nutrients that animals need to thrive like cows."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=114259&page=3

That is pseudoscience and half truths. Human did not evolve eating muscle meat from grain fattened inbred cows, we evolved eating oily fish with the bones, other seafood like molluscs, lean game meat including the offal. We also took in unsaturated fats from nuts, seeds, olives and avocados, there is nowhere near the level of saturated fat in the diet that some claim or advocate. Most people who claim paleo/ low carb eat a sanitised western version that bear little to no resemblance to the wholefood diet we evolved on (streaky bacon fried in butter, paleo muffins anyone?).

Even if we try to eat the same amount of fat our ancestors did, we'd need to do as much physical activity as they did and quit home comforts like central heating and windows to remain healthy and in balance. Inuits are a prime example of adaptation to challenging climates, of course they benefit from more fats than a largely sedentary soul living in California or New York city.