Newbie with a question about clarifying

[purrmonsterr]

So I got on board with the whole sulfate/silicone free thing quite a while ago and never thought much of it since. I use Loreal EverCreme shampoo and conditioner which are both sulfate and silicone free and I shampoo about twice a week, maybe thrice. My hair is pretty damaged from when I used hot tools every day (without heat protector - EEK!) but it's been about 6 months since I've used any heat on my hair so the newest 4 inches of growth seems really healthy.

The last time I went to a hairdresser to trim off some nasty damaged ends she recommended coconut oil. I got it, loved it, used it every day, but after a couple months my hair started feeling like a big blob of...idk, gross hair. It all kind of moved as one solid mass and my ends were like velcro and ALWAYS stuck together no matter how much I combed, moisturized, oiled, etc.

I looked online about what I could do for my moppy hair and heard about clarifying. I didn't have time or money to go buy a new fancy shampoo so I just used some Aussie moisturizing sulfate shampoo that was hiding out in my shower. My hair felt MUCH BETTER after. It was soft and it didn't feel like one big matted mess. On the downside, it became extremely poofy and lost a lot of wave/curl to where it was just barely wavy (whereas it's usually 2bish) and I still have pretty bad velcro ends.

My questions are:

How often should I be clarifying? The only things I put in my hair are coconut oil, sometimes olive oil and within the last week I've been experimenting with baby oil.

Do I have to buy some special "clarifying" shampoo or can I just use regular sulfate shampoo? What's the difference? In what I've read online it sounds like clarifying shampoo can be harsh and I'm afraid to use it on my already dry, damaged hair.

Supplementary information: I'm pretty sure my hair is high porosity. I tried the water test but I did it wrong and didn't let the strand soak for a few minutes so I'll have to try again, but it is very damaged and when I let it air dry it gets to a point where it seems dry and looks shiny, moisturized and healthy, but not too long after that it dries out even more and loses all shine and healthy looking-ness and becomes suuuuper frizzy and poofy! Does this sound like high porosity to you folks? What remedies might you recommend?

I understand that this is irreversible damage and I'm not looking for any miracle cures, just something to make me not hate my hair while I let it grow out. I've considered using silicones since I heard they aren't as bad as all the hype suggests as long as you don't have a sensitivity to them and clarify regularly. I feel like silicones might help my frizziness/poofyness but I'm afraid of having to clarify all the time because my hair is so dry/damaged - see my paradox?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[jeanniet]

Your hair is most likely high porosity due to the heat damage, but the float test isn't very reliable. Highly porous hair will dry quickly and become moisturized quickly, but also lose the moisture fast (as you've noticed).

There are a number of cones that can be removed by non-sulfate shampooing, as well as some that are water soluble. Using a coney serum on your ends may help prevent the tangling problem, which is probably simply due to damage, without you having to constantly trim. However, your hair will benefit from regular protein treatments and coconut oil soaks (the night before a wash). Protein will temporarily fill in the damaged areas so your hair is smoother and feels stronger.

Clarify when you feel like your hair needs it, but don't overdo it. With experience, you'll know when you need to clarify. You can use any sulfate shampoo, but make sure it doesn't contain cones.

Here's an article on cones--there's a better one somewhere, but I can't find it right now: http://blackhairmedia.com/hair-care/silicones-in-hair-products-good-or-bad/

[Firefox7275]

Welcome!

DIY porosity tests have been debunked, it's better to use common sense and pay attention to how your hair behaves. If it's heat damaged and loved coconut oil initially it probably is porous as you suspect. Porous hair does not necessarily need more moisture (= water) because too much makes hair swell and frizz, it needs the right amount of water - this is achieved using emollients (cationic surfactants and fatty alcohols, standard conditioner ingredients), a little oil, perhaps film formers including hydrolysed protein.

If you use oils in moderation/ balance with other ingredients and not using a ton of stuff that builds up you may not ever need to clarify. Coconut oil is scientifically proven to penetrate and works to reduce porosity and increase elasticity, your stylist is displaying her knowledge to recommend that, she could be a keeper!! There is no need to apply it daily nor to use two other oils, that is overkill. Damaged hair often benefits from hydrolysed protein, you can also use ceramides, panthenol and 18-MEA all of which are proven to patch repair (temporary) the damage mimicking the lost components of healthy hair and can also penetrate increasing strength and ability to hold the right amount of water. Hydrolysed protein can also boost waves/ curls, really suits fine hair but use caution if you have coarse hair.

The Evercreme nourishing conditioner contains glycerin (potent humectant) which will not suit porous hair in all dew points/ humidities because it can draw too much water into the hair OR draw water out of the hair, waxy cetyl esters which can build up, and modest amounts of several oils including mineral (same as baby oil!).
http://www.ulta.com/ulta/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=xlsImpprod4130143

Have you considered the Curly Girl method? There are many excellent articles on product ingredients and wavy-curly hair on the Natural Haven blog, also the 'curl chemist' series of articles by Tonya McKay on the Naturallycurly website. Also check out the free 'Curls on the Go' app for local dew points/ humidity.

[purrmonsterr]

Your hair is most likely high porosity due to the heat damage, but the float test isn't very reliable. Highly porous hair will dry quickly and become moisturized quickly, but also lose the moisture fast (as you've noticed).

There are a number of cones that can be removed by non-sulfate shampooing, as well as some that are water soluble. Using a coney serum on your ends may help prevent the tangling problem, which is probably simply due to damage, without you having to constantly trim. However, your hair will benefit from regular protein treatments and coconut oil soaks (the night before a wash). Protein will temporarily fill in the damaged areas so your hair is smoother and feels stronger.

Clarify when you feel like your hair needs it, but don't overdo it. With experience, you'll know when you need to clarify. You can use any sulfate shampoo, but make sure it doesn't contain cones.

Here's an article on cones--there's a better one somewhere, but I can't find it right now: http://blackhairmedia.com/hair-care/...s-good-or-bad/

Wow, I'll definitely try some water soluble cones! I really do think it will help I'm just a little nervous to put, well, anything on my hair. It's in such a temperamental stage right now and I've already had some unsuccessful attempts at fixing it but I probably just didn't know what I was doing. :P

Do you have any recommendations for a good water soluble cone? Should I look for them in a serum or conditioner or...? I've searched around online for products containing them but it's pretty overwhelming. Same thing when I go to the hair care aisle at the store and it's a mile long, I don't even know where to start and I don't have the money to just buy new products all the time if the old ones don't work out.


Welcome!

DIY porosity tests have been debunked, it's better to use common sense and pay attention to how your hair behaves. If it's heat damaged and loved coconut oil initially it probably is porous as you suspect. Porous hair does not necessarily need more moisture (= water) because too much makes hair swell and frizz, it needs the right amount of water - this is achieved using emollients (cationic surfactants and fatty alcohols, standard conditioner ingredients), a little oil, perhaps film formers including hydrolysed protein.

If you use oils in moderation/ balance with other ingredients and not using a ton of stuff that builds up you may not ever need to clarify. Coconut oil is scientifically proven to penetrate and works to reduce porosity and increase elasticity, your stylist is displaying her knowledge to recommend that, she could be a keeper!! There is no need to apply it daily nor to use two other oils, that is overkill. Damaged hair often benefits from hydrolysed protein, you can also use ceramides, panthenol and 18-MEA all of which are proven to patch repair (temporary) the damage mimicking the lost components of healthy hair and can also penetrate increasing strength and ability to hold the right amount of water. Hydrolysed protein can also boost waves/ curls, really suits fine hair but use caution if you have coarse hair.

The Evercreme nourishing conditioner contains glycerin (potent humectant) which will not suit porous hair in all dew points/ humidities because it can draw too much water into the hair OR draw water out of the hair, waxy cetyl esters which can build up, and modest amounts of several oils including mineral (same as baby oil!).
http://www.ulta.com/ulta/browse/prod...Impprod4130143

Have you considered the Curly Girl method? There are many excellent articles on product ingredients and wavy-curly hair on the Natural Haven blog, also the 'curl chemist' series of articles by Tonya McKay on the Naturallycurly website. Also check out the free 'Curls on the Go' app for local dew points/ humidity.

Oh boy.. hydrolysed protein, ceramides, panthenol, 18-MEA? Maybe I've tried to bite off more than I can chew, lol. They sound like exactly the kind of thing that would help my hair right now. In what products might I be able to find these ingredients? I tried using the search on this site to maybe find a list of products but I seem to be having trouble finding what I'm looking for.

Should I be using coconut oil on wet or dry hair? I've heard that you shouldn't put oil on dry hair because it doesn't actually moisturize, it just holds the moisture that's already in the hair, but I've also heard, like you said, that coconut oil is the one oil that can actually penetrate and moisturize. Is this true? You say it doesn't need to be applied every day which is good to know, so maybe just after I wash my hair? I actually need to buy more coconut oil since I had to toss mine last week after it started to mold and turn rancid, apparently I was supposed to keep it refrigerated, OOPS! *facepalm*

I had no idea those ingredients were in my conditioner! That must have been where I got all that build-up. Also I live in Portland, Oregon where the humidity is either pretty high during the rainy season or pretty low during summer (like right now) and rarely in between, so maybe glycerin or humectants in general aren't good to use in my hair? At least while it's so damaged? Please tell me if I'm wrong!!! I'm merely guessing from what I've read about humidity and humectants on other sites and I really don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm trying to learn!

Reading about the Curly Girl method is what made me decide to toss my sulfate shampoos and silicone products and start using the Loreal EverCreme line. I used to co-wash back in the day before I even knew it was a thing but I think I had a problem with build up.. Come to think of it I'm not really sure why I stopped. I've also tried the baking soda wash and ACV rinse a few times and although my roots had more body than usual which I loved, the rest of my hair was lackluster at best and still poofy/frizzy. I read that baking soda can really throw off the pH of your hair and lift the cuticle, which I feel is the last thing my hair needs since it's already porous and frizzy so I haven't done the baking soda wash in a while but do you think my hair still might benefit from the ACV rinse occasionally? Again, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this!

What I'd really like to do is transition to just water washing with an occasional clarify only when needed but I think I'll need to wait until my hair isn't so damaged. I just want pretty, manageable hair again!!!

Thank you so much for your replies and resources! I'm still knew to all of this so thanks for bearing with my uncertainty and silly questions!

[Leeloo]

You don’t have to buy a clarifying shampoo. I found a thread here on LHC that recommended clarifying once a month with 3 tbsp of baking soda mixed with 3 tbsp of shampoo (your regular shampoo). I also diluted that mix with water. You’ll have to do a deep moisturizing treatment when you clarify not to over dry your hair. The velcro ends sounds like you need to S&D (search and destroy). And for frizziness maybe overnight oiling with coconut oil.

[purrmonsterr]

You don’t have to buy a clarifying shampoo. I found a thread here on LHC that recommended clarifying once a month with 3 tbsp of baking soda mixed with 3 tbsp of shampoo (your regular shampoo). I also diluted that mix with water. You’ll have to do a deep moisturizing treatment when you clarify not to over dry your hair. The velcro ends sounds like you need to S&D (search and destroy). And for frizziness maybe overnight oiling with coconut oil.

Thanks! I'll give that a try the next time I clarify. I S&D probably once a week and rarely find actual split ends. They're just so damaged I'll need to get a trim all around. I used to bleach my hair A LOT and use hot tools every day and my ends are what's left of that. I definitely want to do an overnight oiling as soon as I buy more coconut oil. I already asked this above, sorry, but should I put coconut oil in wet or dry hair? Also do you have any recommendations for a deep conditioner?

[Panth]

You don’t have to buy a clarifying shampoo. I found a thread here on LHC that recommended clarifying once a month with 3 tbsp of baking soda mixed with 3 tbsp of shampoo (your regular shampoo). I also diluted that mix with water. You’ll have to do a deep moisturizing treatment when you clarify not to over dry your hair. The velcro ends sounds like you need to S&D (search and destroy). And for frizziness maybe overnight oiling with coconut oil.

Baking soda is VERY harsh, though. IMO, I'd take the clarifying shampoo over the baking soda.

Also, Leeloo has missed out one of the most important points about that method. Baking soda is alkaline. The scalp and hair follicles prefer a slightly acidic pH. So, if you do chose to do a baking soda treatment you MUST finish it off with some sort of acid rinse. That could be apple cider vinegar (ACV), white vinegar or citric acid powder. Which ever you use, dilute it well. You can leave it in or rinse it out, but should leave it until the very end of your treatment.


Thanks! I'll give that a try the next time I clarify. I S&D probably once a week and rarely find actual split ends. They're just so damaged I'll need to get a trim all around. I used to bleach my hair A LOT and use hot tools every day and my ends are what's left of that. I definitely want to do an overnight oiling as soon as I buy more coconut oil. I already asked this above, sorry, but should I put coconut oil in wet or dry hair? Also do you have any recommendations for a deep conditioner?

You can use coconut oil (and other oils) on either wet or dry hair. It depends on your intention and you hair's preference. I believe that on wet hair it works more as a "seal" to keep moisture in, whilst on dry hair it won't do that. Oils do not moisturise, but they can condition - i.e. impart beneficial qualities like slip, shine and anti-static.

However, you should be using tiny amounts of oil - touch a fingertip to the coconut oil, then spread that all over both palms until you have a barely-there sheen of oil, then slide your hands down your length (straighties) or scrunch (curlies) to transfer this onto your hair. Depending on your hair, just doing that weekly may be sufficient. If you are using much more than that and you are using it daily, then I suspect over-use of coconut oil is part of your problems.

[Firefox7275]

Wow, I'll definitely try some water soluble cones! I really do think it will help I'm just a little nervous to put, well, anything on my hair. It's in such a temperamental stage right now and I've already had some unsuccessful attempts at fixing it but I probably just didn't know what I was doing. :P

Do you have any recommendations for a good water soluble cone? Should I look for them in a serum or conditioner or...? I've searched around online for products containing them but it's pretty overwhelming. Same thing when I go to the hair care aisle at the store and it's a mile long, I don't even know where to start and I don't have the money to just buy new products all the time if the old ones don't work out.

Oh boy.. hydrolysed protein, ceramides, panthenol, 18-MEA? Maybe I've tried to bite off more than I can chew, lol. They sound like exactly the kind of thing that would help my hair right now. In what products might I be able to find these ingredients? I tried using the search on this site to maybe find a list of products but I seem to be having trouble finding what I'm looking for.

Should I be using coconut oil on wet or dry hair? I've heard that you shouldn't put oil on dry hair because it doesn't actually moisturize, it just holds the moisture that's already in the hair, but I've also heard, like you said, that coconut oil is the one oil that can actually penetrate and moisturize. Is this true? You say it doesn't need to be applied every day which is good to know, so maybe just after I wash my hair? I actually need to buy more coconut oil since I had to toss mine last week after it started to mold and turn rancid, apparently I was supposed to keep it refrigerated, OOPS! *facepalm*

I had no idea those ingredients were in my conditioner! That must have been where I got all that build-up. Also I live in Portland, Oregon where the humidity is either pretty high during the rainy season or pretty low during summer (like right now) and rarely in between, so maybe glycerin or humectants in general aren't good to use in my hair? At least while it's so damaged? Please tell me if I'm wrong!!! I'm merely guessing from what I've read about humidity and humectants on other sites and I really don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm trying to learn!

Reading about the Curly Girl method is what made me decide to toss my sulfate shampoos and silicone products and start using the Loreal EverCreme line. I used to co-wash back in the day before I even knew it was a thing but I think I had a problem with build up.. Come to think of it I'm not really sure why I stopped. I've also tried the baking soda wash and ACV rinse a few times and although my roots had more body than usual which I loved, the rest of my hair was lackluster at best and still poofy/frizzy. I read that baking soda can really throw off the pH of your hair and lift the cuticle, which I feel is the last thing my hair needs since it's already porous and frizzy so I haven't done the baking soda wash in a while but do you think my hair still might benefit from the ACV rinse occasionally? Again, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this!

What I'd really like to do is transition to just water washing with an occasional clarify only when needed but I think I'll need to wait until my hair isn't so damaged. I just want pretty, manageable hair again!!!

Thank you so much for your replies and resources! I'm still knew to all of this so thanks for bearing with my uncertainty and silly questions!

Your questions are not silly cosmetic science can be confusing because it's a 'foreign language', I remember my first time looking at a hospital pharmacy shelf (originally trained in that field) and being totally overwhelmed. Useful list of ingredients in their family groups
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/celebrities/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products

Baking soda is alkaline so damaging to both skin and hair, if you like a bit of body IMO stick with gentle anionic surfactant free shampoos for regular use. If you need to clarify use either a sulphate surfactant or cocoamidopropyl betaine. If you use pH appropriate products (4.5 to 5.5) this will help the cuticle lay flat and you won't need a dilute vinegar rinse but you can if you wish. Lines that are the right pH include As I Am, Dermorganic, Komaza Care and Keracare.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-the-scoop-on-vinegar
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair?page=4

Coconut oil doesn't moisturise, but porous hair often doesn't need more moisture (= water) anyway, it already absorbs too much so needs less. Water is damaging it swells and stresses the cuticle, flushes out structural proteins (hygral fatigue). The scientific research which demonstrates reduced porosity/ increased elasticity/ reduced damage used coconut oil on dry hair, overnight up to twenty four hours before washing out. Oil and water do not mix, if you use a penetrating oil on damp or wet hair it will penetrate much more slowly as hair dries, or not at all. There is also published research showing olive oil penetrates but none demonstrating beneficial effects. It is believed that it is the lauric acid and oleic acid than penetrates, these are small molecule fats - other oils rich in them include sweet almond, argan, avocado, babassu, palm kernel oil and tucuma butter. It's likely any of these will penetrate: I use refined coconut oil which does not go bad and is much cheaper than virgin here.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/mineral-oil-versus-coconut-oil-which-is-better

Panthenol (sometimes called pro-vitamin B5) is widely used in haircare products so should be no problem. Ceramides are used in some L'Oreal products (on label as 2-oleamido-1,3-octadecanediol): I believe it's in some of the Ever- products but I don't know which, there are also water soluble silicones in some of the Ever- products. The other Curly Girl friendly source of ceramides is Komaza Care - in many of their Moja and Matani products - I currently use the repair treatment spray which also contains hydrolysed protein and panthenol.
http://www.komazahaircare.com/matani-repair-treatment.html
The only silicone free 18-MEA I have seen, not used the line myself and I don't know what the full ingredients are (if you find out please post them)
http://www.scientificessentials.com/products/conditioner

Hydrolysed protein if you want to go the natural route you could do a gelatin treatment, otherwise there is Colorful neutral protein filler at Sallys which you can add dropwise to any product of your choice or Komaza Care protein strengthener. Various regular conditioners contain a more modest amount of protein - Spiral Solutions on Etsy or Naturallycurly Curl Mart, Mill Creek biotin conditioner, Mill Creek keratin conditioner (Mill Creek also use panthenol) and many others. The only one of these I have used is the Komaza Care strengthener but they have reformulated since adding aloe and a cationic surfactant for penetration. Other wavies and curlies have used the others, you might Google or run an advanced search on Naturallycurly forums or here on LHC.

I love Schwarzkopf Gliss (Kur) ultimate volume conditioner (more easily available in Europe) which also contains panthenol and hydrolysed protein but no oils, alternated with the old formula Fructis Sleek & Shine which has protein and a little oil. I'm completely lost with Garnier reformulating everything what Fructis products you have in the US that are silicone free and if any contain hydrolysed protein but maybe one of the US regulars will be able to help. Here in the UK many of the new Fructis formulas contain silicones and cetyl esters which built up horribly for me.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/03/moisture-issue-proteins-and-moisture.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/protein-conditioners-for-hair-part-2-of_03.html

[purrmonsterr]

Your questions are not silly cosmetic science can be confusing because it's a 'foreign language', I remember my first time looking at a hospital pharmacy shelf (originally trained in that field) and being totally overwhelmed. Useful list of ingredients in their family groups
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/celebrities/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products

Baking soda is alkaline so damaging to both skin and hair, if you like a bit of body IMO stick with gentle anionic surfactant free shampoos for regular use. If you need to clarify use either a sulphate surfactant or cocoamidopropyl betaine. If you use pH appropriate products (4.5 to 5.5) this will help the cuticle lay flat and you won't need a dilute vinegar rinse but you can if you wish. Lines that are the right pH include As I Am, Dermorganic, Komaza Care and Keracare.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-the-scoop-on-vinegar
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair?page=4

Coconut oil doesn't moisturise, but porous hair often doesn't need more moisture (= water) anyway, it already absorbs too much so needs less. Water is damaging it swells and stresses the cuticle, flushes out structural proteins (hygral fatigue). The scientific research which demonstrates reduced porosity/ increased elasticity/ reduced damage used coconut oil on dry hair, overnight up to twenty four hours before washing out. Oil and water do not mix, if you use a penetrating oil on damp or wet hair it will penetrate much more slowly as hair dries, or not at all. There is also published research showing olive oil penetrates but none demonstrating beneficial effects. It is believed that it is the lauric acid and oleic acid than penetrates, these are small molecule fats - other oils rich in them include sweet almond, argan, avocado, babassu, palm kernel oil and tucuma butter. It's likely any of these will penetrate: I use refined coconut oil which does not go bad and is much cheaper than virgin here.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/mineral-oil-versus-coconut-oil-which-is-better

Panthenol (sometimes called pro-vitamin B5) is widely used in haircare products so should be no problem. Ceramides are used in some L'Oreal products (on label as 2-oleamido-1,3-octadecanediol): I believe it's in some of the Ever- products but I don't know which, there are also water soluble silicones in some of the Ever- products. The other Curly Girl friendly source of ceramides is Komaza Care - in many of their Moja and Matani products - I currently use the repair treatment spray which also contains hydrolysed protein and panthenol.
http://www.komazahaircare.com/matani-repair-treatment.html
The only silicone free 18-MEA I have seen, not used the line myself and I don't know what the full ingredients are (if you find out please post them)
http://www.scientificessentials.com/products/conditioner

Hydrolysed protein if you want to go the natural route you could do a gelatin treatment, otherwise there is Colorful neutral protein filler at Sallys which you can add dropwise to any product of your choice or Komaza Care protein strengthener. Various regular conditioners contain a more modest amount of protein - Spiral Solutions on Etsy or Naturallycurly Curl Mart, Mill Creek biotin conditioner, Mill Creek keratin conditioner (Mill Creek also use panthenol) and many others. The only one of these I have used is the Komaza Care strengthener but they have reformulated since adding aloe and a cationic surfactant for penetration. Other wavies and curlies have used the others, you might Google or run an advanced search on Naturallycurly forums or here on LHC.

I love Schwarzkopf Gliss (Kur) ultimate volume conditioner (more easily available in Europe) which also contains panthenol and hydrolysed protein but no oils, alternated with the old formula Fructis Sleek & Shine which has protein and a little oil. I'm completely lost with Garnier reformulating everything what Fructis products you have in the US that are silicone free and if any contain hydrolysed protein but maybe one of the US regulars will be able to help. Here in the UK many of the new Fructis formulas contain silicones and cetyl esters which built up horribly for me.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/03/moisture-issue-proteins-and-moisture.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/protein-conditioners-for-hair-part-2-of_03.html

WOW this is so helpful! I never would have found all this information on my own, thank you!!!!

I'm definitely going to do a dry hair coconut oil treatment, I'm pretty sure I've only put it in when my hair was wet. I'm really interested in trying a protein filler. I'll probably try the gelatin treatment when I'm a little more comfortable in what I'm doing. :P

There's a Sally's right down the street from me so I can just take this list of ingredients with me! I'll be that person who spends hours reading the ingredients on every hair product they have, haha!

I've had to abandon so many products I loved because they changed the ingredients!

[Firefox7275]

WOW this is so helpful! I never would have found all this information on my own, thank you!!!!

I'm definitely going to do a dry hair coconut oil treatment, I'm pretty sure I've only put it in when my hair was wet. I'm really interested in trying a protein filler. I'll probably try the gelatin treatment when I'm a little more comfortable in what I'm doing. :P

There's a Sally's right down the street from me so I can just take this list of ingredients with me! I'll be that person who spends hours reading the ingredients on every hair product they have, haha!

I've had to abandon so many products I loved because they changed the ingredients!

No worries, I like to release my inner geek! Tell me about the change of ingredient thing, I had nightmare build up from the new Fructis Repair & Shine (UK Triple Nutrition), grrr. I've come to the conclusion having one 'holy grail' product is dangerous, best to have a few in case you lose one.

Sallys have a lot of ingredient lists online, I find it easier to read that way cos Google is to hand I make mistakes when in store. Sallys have a few CG friendly products I think: As I Am, CURLS, ION lines come to mind. ION Effective Care conditioner contains protein and panthenol, I forgot that earlier.