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View Full Version : HELP?!: FL, porous wavy/curly peeps or calcium heavy hard water.



pili
August 3rd, 2013, 06:22 PM
Six days ago I moved to FL and my hair went from soft curls to hard and brittle in that time. I know it is the water here. I grew up in FL and always had horribly dry hair growing up. I even tried using a swimmers shampoo and ACV rinse, but it is just harder now. And my HG product had a formula change too, and no longer works. Grrrrrr! to say I am frustrated is an understatement. It took moving away to get my hair to finally behave. It is still shiny, it just feels wrong.

Just for some background, I have highly porous, 2c hair with some 2b and 3a/b thrown in to confuse the issue, it is also C and iii (5 inches). I would post pics, but I never seem to have much luck with getting them to show.

My routine used to be very simple: WO, Tresumme Naturals, LA Looks gel. That was it. No treatments, no oils.

Now, I have tried coconut oil overnight, I am trying GVP Conditioning balm as my new conditioner (used it to CWC along with Suave naturals), I sealed with jojoba oil and I use LA Looks gel (and have for years with great results.) Is it maybe the oils? Those are new for me (started a month ago).

I don't know, maybe in my zeal to get my hair growing I am trying too much all at once?
Has anyone else in a high calcium, hard water area had any success with different techniques?

Bronzepikzi
August 3rd, 2013, 07:22 PM
North Florida here! Same problem. First recommendation would be to get a showerhead filter, but I haven`t had much luck with those. I use an Ion demineralizer from Sally 's beauty. It comes in a little purple packages.

Bronzepikzi
August 3rd, 2013, 07:25 PM
Here's the link: http://www.sallybeauty.com/clarifying-treatment/SBS-302208,default,pd.html

Wildcat Diva
August 3rd, 2013, 07:49 PM
Citric acid rinses are a must. There's a thread....

cmdinoto
August 3rd, 2013, 07:59 PM
Do you have a water softener? I also live in Florida and I noticed when I moved to a house with a water softener to a house without it my hair would become more frizzy and dry.

pili
August 3rd, 2013, 08:21 PM
I used the Ion swimmer's shampoo to remove the calcium. I'm also looking at getting the showerhead filter. I'll have to go back and check out the demineralizer.

I also wish companies would just stop changing their formulas! Every time I find something that works it gets changed and stops working. If I could do without product I would. :mad:

pili
August 3rd, 2013, 08:24 PM
Wildcat Diva: I'll go look for that thread.

irisheyes
August 3rd, 2013, 09:10 PM
You can try Ion Hard Water Shampoo and conditioner, also.

jeanniet
August 3rd, 2013, 10:50 PM
Citric acid rinses. I have hard well water, and citric acid rinses make a big difference. I don't clarify often, and rarely chelate (maybe twice a year). I've been using citric acid to offset the water problems for about four years now. I think Wildcat Diva was talking about the miracle water thread: http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=51184

A shower filter may also help, but make sure it actually filters calcium carbonate, and not just chlorine. The calcium carbonate is what causes hard water.

pili
August 3rd, 2013, 11:03 PM
Citric acid rinses. I have hard well water, and citric acid rinses make a big difference. I don't clarify often, and rarely chelate (maybe twice a year). I've been using citric acid to offset the water problems for about four years now. I think Wildcat Diva was talking about the miracle water thread: http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=51184

A shower filter may also help, but make sure it actually filters calcium carbonate, and not just chlorine. The calcium carbonate is what causes hard water.

Do you have a brand you would recommend? The ones I've found online all seem to only address chlorine.

jeanniet
August 4th, 2013, 01:04 AM
I'm afraid I don't, since I don't use a filter. Citric acid is much easier. :)

pili
August 4th, 2013, 06:05 AM
I'm afraid I don't, since I don't use a filter. Citric acid is much easier. :)


So the citric acid works differently from the ACV?

Firefox7275
August 5th, 2013, 05:13 AM
Six days ago I moved to FL and my hair went from soft curls to hard and brittle in that time. I know it is the water here. I grew up in FL and always had horribly dry hair growing up. I even tried using a swimmers shampoo and ACV rinse, but it is just harder now. And my HG product had a formula change too, and no longer works. Grrrrrr! to say I am frustrated is an understatement. It took moving away to get my hair to finally behave. It is still shiny, it just feels wrong.

Just for some background, I have highly porous, 2c hair with some 2b and 3a/b thrown in to confuse the issue, it is also C and iii (5 inches). I would post pics, but I never seem to have much luck with getting them to show.

My routine used to be very simple: WO, Tresumme Naturals, LA Looks gel. That was it. No treatments, no oils.

Now, I have tried coconut oil overnight, I am trying GVP Conditioning balm as my new conditioner (used it to CWC along with Suave naturals), I sealed with jojoba oil and I use LA Looks gel (and have for years with great results.) Is it maybe the oils? Those are new for me (started a month ago).

I don't know, maybe in my zeal to get my hair growing I am trying too much all at once?
Has anyone else in a high calcium, hard water area had any success with different techniques?

GVP conditioning balm is more of a moisturiser than a true conditioner, second ingredient is a potent humectant propylene glycol which attracts water to the hair, pretty much the opposite of what you are trying to achieve with the coconut oil soaks. If you used a leave in conditioner than contained a little natural oil you wouldn't need to seal and might find it easier to distribute the oil.

I also don't see the logic in condition-wash-condition when you are co-washing anyway, I would have thought that would make it more difficult to cleanse the hair effectively of product residues, you don't need to protect your hair from the harsh surfactants in many commercial shampoos. Adding a step also means you spend more time exposed to damaging and hard water.

Agree with the others regular chelating washes would be useful - ION Swimmers, Malibu C sachets are sulphate free - many acids are chelators but each have greater or lesser affinity for different minerals so doing acetic acid (dilute vinegar) and citric acid (dilute lemon) rinses may be beneficial. You should not need to vinegar rinse AND use a chelating shampoo that is overkill on the acids, but do final rinse your hair in bottled or boiled water.

BTW ION swimmers shampoo contains hydrolysed protein, some coarse hairs do not do well with protein, overload can make hair feel hard, dry and brittle. Also olefin sulfonates are pretty harsh surfactants, the Malibu C might be gentler if these ingredients are correct, dextrose is a humectant BTW.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-56958.html

pili
August 5th, 2013, 07:58 AM
GVP conditioning balm is more of a moisturiser than a true conditioner, second ingredient is a potent humectant propylene glycol which attracts water to the hair, pretty much the opposite of what you are trying to achieve with the coconut oil soaks. If you used a leave in conditioner than contained a little natural oil you wouldn't need to seal and might find it easier to distribute the oil.

I also don't see the logic in condition-wash-condition when you are co-washing anyway, I would have thought that would make it more difficult to cleanse the hair effectively of product residues, you don't need to protect your hair from the harsh surfactants in many commercial shampoos. Adding a step also means you spend more time exposed to damaging and hard water.

Agree with the others regular chelating washes would be useful - ION Swimmers, Malibu C sachets are sulphate free - many acids are chelators but each have greater or lesser affinity for different minerals so doing acetic acid (dilute vinegar) and citric acid (dilute lemon) rinses may be beneficial. You should not need to vinegar rinse AND use a chelating shampoo that is overkill on the acids, but do final rinse your hair in bottled or boiled water.

BTW ION swimmers shampoo contains hydrolysed protein, some coarse hairs do not do well with protein, overload can make hair feel hard, dry and brittle. Also olefin sulfonates are pretty harsh surfactants, the Malibu C might be gentler if these ingredients are correct, dextrose is a humectant BTW.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-56958.html

GVP Conditioning Balm: I am trying this for the first time because it was recommended on NC.com as protein free. I do not do well with proteins at all. I used it alone without anything else yesterday after swimming (so I had to use the swimmer's shampoo) and it left my hair supper soft and frizz free. This was the second time i used it and the shampoo finally seemed to remove the last of the coconut oil. So maybe the coconut oil is not good for my hair? I am not very well versed in the chemistry of products.

My scalp reacts badly to quite a lot of stuff out there, and even though I have been shampoo free until this week, I know my hair does OK with certain silicones. I'm just trying to go for simple and health more than curl appearance right now, so avoiding the plastic-like products.

I definitely need the swimmers shampoo because we go swimming at least once a week in a high school pool which is very chlorinated. Would ACV/citric acid rinses be good for that instead of the shampoo. I really don't like how "squeaky" clean my hair and scalp feel after the shampoo.

I wish I had more disposable income to try stuff. I'll check out the link you sent.

The best combo I ever had was the original Nature's Gate Herbal conditioner and Biosilk Silk Therapy, of all things! With that I got my hair to below waist. I CO washed using those two and never had buildup or issues. I wish I could post a pic, but I don't have that ability yet. Of course, this was in GA, where the water is not super high in calcium. Not going back to the Biosilk (for now).

I need to get that showerhead filter TODAY!

Firefox 7275, I wish I could get you or one of the other ladies who know product ingredients so well to look a my hair and help me figure out what to use!

DancingQueen
August 5th, 2013, 08:16 AM
I have mainly 2c with 2b/3a in there as well, only my hair is M thickness, and medium thickness (3 inches). I had the exact same problem growing up. What always give me great result is leaving avocado oil in my hair for 2 hours before I shower. Just soak your hair in it, than shampoo and condition when you hit the shower. It makes the hair extremely soft and shiny, and the curls nice and bouncy. Just a small tip; hope you will find something to work for you. :)

pili
August 5th, 2013, 09:04 AM
Does the avocado oil work differently than the coconut oil?

Firefox7275
August 5th, 2013, 02:31 PM
GVP Conditioning Balm: I am trying this for the first time because it was recommended on NC.com as protein free. I do not do well with proteins at all. I used it alone without anything else yesterday after swimming (so I had to use the swimmer's shampoo) and it left my hair supper soft and frizz free. This was the second time i used it and the shampoo finally seemed to remove the last of the coconut oil. So maybe the coconut oil is not good for my hair? I am not very well versed in the chemistry of products.

My scalp reacts badly to quite a lot of stuff out there, and even though I have been shampoo free until this week, I know my hair does OK with certain silicones. I'm just trying to go for simple and health more than curl appearance right now, so avoiding the plastic-like products.

I definitely need the swimmers shampoo because we go swimming at least once a week in a high school pool which is very chlorinated. Would ACV/citric acid rinses be good for that instead of the shampoo. I really don't like how "squeaky" clean my hair and scalp feel after the shampoo.

I wish I had more disposable income to try stuff. I'll check out the link you sent.

The best combo I ever had was the original Nature's Gate Herbal conditioner and Biosilk Silk Therapy, of all things! With that I got my hair to below waist. I CO washed using those two and never had buildup or issues. I wish I could post a pic, but I don't have that ability yet. Of course, this was in GA, where the water is not super high in calcium. Not going back to the Biosilk (for now).

I need to get that showerhead filter TODAY!

Firefox 7275, I wish I could get you or one of the other ladies who know product ingredients so well to look a my hair and help me figure out what to use!

If you tell me your hair properties (porosity, coarseness) I will do my best, Live Curly Live Free is worth a read on properties tho the porosity tests are probably bunk, also good article on porosity by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay on NC. LCLF offer a hair analysis, Komaza Care hair analysis is far more detailed/ scientific but much more expensive. What is the medical diagnosis for the scalp complaint?

I won't lie I do not understand why some people cannot seem to shift the surface residue of coconut oil, because I really don't skimp I am heavily oiled. I can understand that coconut oil is not beneficial for all hair types - for example low porosity - and I can understand that coconut overload (too much being absorbed) is negative and this cannot be corrected in one wash. I have a few theories as to why the hair may end up feeling greasy, see if any might fit for you
1. applying the oil over other styling/ conditioning products that are 'binding' the oil to the surface
2. not using enough cleansing conditioner (I use LOADS of a cheapie, Inecto)
3. not using enough massage to build up a light 'lather'
4. not rinsing thoroughly/ repeating
5. using a 'moisturising'/ conditioning shampoo/ conditioner that doesn't have the cleansing power
6. shampoo selected encourages too much penetration (research used sulphates).

Luxepiggy swears by applying conditioner to dry hair to shift oil build up, I couldn't get on with that method it felt slimy and I couldn't work up the 'lather' so I guess there is an element of personal taste or perhaps it works better for some products than others.

For chlorine you need EDTA or ascorbic acid (vitamin C) I think. Ascorbic acid powder is fairly easy to get hold of and not too pricey, you could make up your own de-chlorinating product with a truly gentle shampoo or even conditioner. Are you protecting your hair from the pool water with a thick conditioner and a shower cap? Normally I would say coconut oil, but maybe you prefer not to go that route .... you could experiment with adding a little coconut oil to one of your conditioners? So you get a coating but you've already added some of the cleansing element, it's not straight up oil. I know of some curlies who prefer that.

pili
August 6th, 2013, 01:25 PM
I will definitely try the Vit. C. The coconut oil does not seem to work well on me. I have used jojoba in the past with some success, but mostly I use it when I scrunch out the crunch to give it a little shine, not for texture. I remember one winter I used just olive oil as a styler in an experiment and that worked amazing, but it was winter in GA and super dry. I will check out the Vit. C. Thanks.

jeanniet
August 6th, 2013, 04:10 PM
For my hair citric acid works better than ACV. My water is hard, but also has some iron in it (we have an iron filter, but doesn't get all the iron). I grew my hair from chin to waist in a little less than three years using CA rinses to offset my water. I do use a chelating shampoo once or twice a year, but try to avoid it because it's pretty harsh on my hair.