Where to Begin - Complete Newbie

[sagremus]

I'm wondering if somebody could give me some advice on starting out. Right now, my hair is at about mid-back length with many layers that are growing out. The strands are fine in texture and my hair is about average thickness. About 3 years ago I colored the entire head a reddish brown, but it has since faded to my natural ash-brown/blonde. However, I committed a huge crime. I bleached the under half of my hair blonde about 2 years ago. It took about two processes to get it to look platinum. From then on, I have just been touching up the roots and occasionally having a toner to lift the brassiness from the blonde. So I have that "skunk" hair (don't judge me lol).

All my life, my hair and scalp have been SO DRY/tangled/frizzy for 2 days after washing and then reverts to a greasy, limp mess on the 3rd day. Therefore I have no idea if I have oily hair or dry hair. I have been going back and forth between sulfates, cones, etc, and whether or not to shampoo or just condition. I used a sulfate shampoo to try and get my scalp clean and now my hair is crispy like straw. I did a condition-only wash last week and my hair was greasy within 24 hours. There is no in between.

My hair has a little bit of wave, and has defined ringlets when wet, but as soon as it dries it becomes like the Sahara desert and is straight. I can see the frizzy pieces popping out of my head even when I stand in the mirror after showering. I have tried oils, deep conditioners, Ojon hair mask, etc. Nothing seems to be able to quench it's thirst and the tangles ... oh the tangles :( I loose so much hair even when trying to comb it out with a detangling comb just trying to remove knots. It's not just the bleached parts either, although they are worse.

Silicones seemed to help for a short while, and I've stopped using them for about a month now; but I am tempted to go back.

I have toyed with the thought that my hair might be low porosity and not absorbing any moisture.


I guess my questions are:
1. Is my hair curly or wavy or what?
2. Where should I start. Should I condition only, wash only, use plain water? What products should I use? Sulfates, silicones - yes or no?
3. Can I continue bleaching and maintain healthy hair if I just do the roots?

[samanthajenalyn]

for the curly part, i would recommend trying the CG method, to see if it would work for you. Ive always thought my hair was a frizzy dry mess, but once i started the cg method i can tell that my hair is actually wavy. it has also helped my hair not be so frizzy, and more moisturized. (and ive only been doing it for about two weeks.)
There is some information on here about it, but for more you can go to naturallycurly.com

[Natalia]

I am no texture expert so i'll leave that to to others but I think a good place to start is with some deep treatments. Id say try an SMT first (condish, aloe, honey) leave that on at minimu a half hour, give it a few days to see how your hair responds to that then do an overnight oiling. That gives you a feel on what treatments will work best for you humectrant based (like the SMT) or fat based (oils) then you can tweak it from there. As for washing a good basic condish is suave coconut, it seems to agree with a lot of hair types. Since you mention bouncing between dry and oily id go for daily or every other day CO with the suave coconut. Hope that helps :)

[sagremus]

Thanks, I'm going to pick up some Suave tonight. I love coconut so that's good news. I have used coconut oil in my hair a few hours before washing, but it doesn't seem to make much difference. I also used Ojon hair restoration with pure ojon oil overnight (and smelled like a combination between unwashed socks and a tobacco shop) and it didn't seem to make a huge change either.

[sagremus]

I forgot to add, that I've been using some curly girl principles such as no heat, and wrapping my hair in a t-shirt after washing. I think I just need to stick to it instead of flip flopping around.

[samanthajenalyn]

I forgot to add, that I've been using some curly girl principles such as no heat, and wrapping my hair in a t-shirt after washing. I think I just need to stick to it instead of flip flopping around.

Good luck!

[jacqueline101]

I'd try a leave in conditioner,oils, and I'd deep condition your hair. I'd ready the curly hair thread.

[Natalia]

Thanks, I'm going to pick up some Suave tonight. I love coconut so that's good news. I have used coconut oil in my hair a few hours before washing, but it doesn't seem to make much difference. I also used Ojon hair restoration with pure ojon oil overnight (and smelled like a combination between unwashed socks and a tobacco shop) and it didn't seem to make a huge change either.

I hope your hair likes it :). If it doesn't it mightbe that your hair doesn't like honey some don't, you can try it with molasses or glycerine instead. Jojoba would be a good oil to try it doesn't agree with my hair but many like it.

[Sarahh]

I can relate so much with your problems. I am currently trying to grow out a scene haircut I had about 3 years ago! My hair is also very dry, with some waves. Anyways, I have a few suggestions for you that have worked for me so far.

The first and most important step in growing out/getting healthy hair, is to have good ends. If you already do, then good for you, but if you don't, I can give you a real quick explanation as to how to do it yourself.

As for washing, I've started conditioning every other day, and shampooing 1-2 times a week. Remember to massage the conditioner throughout your hair and then use the coolest water you can stand when rinsing it out. After, comb through with a wide tooth comb and apply a leave-in. I have found that my hair is softer than it's ever been after starting this routine. At the end of the days in between my conditioning, my roots may look a little shiny, but all you need is to use a 100% boar bristle brush to bring the oils down throughout the hair..

As for your third question (the bleaching part) I would suggest you just ask your hair dresser to blend in your roots so that you can just grow it out to your natural color. I have a friend that had been bleaching her hair for the longest time, and when she was ready to go back natural, that's what she did. ATM her hair is a pretty ombre, and she can slowly cut out the bleach as her hair grows.

[sagremus]

Thanks everyone for the suggestion. My skin loves jojoba oil, so I have been thinking about trying that in my hair.

And thanks Sarahh for sharing your scene experience haha. I had a "scene" haircut in high school and did the back-combing and everything. Makes me cringe now.

As far as what to do with the bleached part of my hair ... not sure what to do with it yet. I feel like it's part my style, but I have heard people describe my type of hair (not my hair in particular) as trashy. I also work in a profession, so such a unnatural coloring might be frowned upon, but no one has said anything. I actually get asked almost daily if my hair is naturally two different colors; not sure if that is a compliment or not. I have an appointment this week to get my roots fixed; I actually let it go so I have 1-2 inches of regrowth already, because I'm not sure if I want to keep the blonde or grown it out. I don't like my natural hair color, so I'm afraid that if I try to go back, I'll just end up dyeing it again. And there is no way I am bleaching it again like I did originally.

[sagremus]

I forgot again my biggest question - Can anyone recommend a good leave in conditioner? I've never tried one, and I'm afraid it'll make my hair look greasy?

[Natalia]

I forgot again my biggest question - Can anyone recommend a good leave in conditioner? I've never tried one, and I'm afraid it'll make my hair look greasy?

You can dilute regular condish and use as a leave in. Or you can apply a dap in wet hair to distributre. Kimberlily's spray recipe (on here somewhere or in the archive) would be good to try. I hear shea moisture products are popular with curlies.

[DancingQueen]

I would try to give it an oil treatment with a really moisturising oil - for example avocado oil a few hours before washing your hair. Just plain, not heated avocado oil. My hair is wavy/curly, but whenever I use my avocado oil, it gets even more curly. Maybe you can determine your hairtype that way? And it should definately help with the dryness. :)

[sagremus]

Just wanted to say that I went to the store and bought: Glycerin, Aloe, Honey, Jojoba oil, Coconut Suave, and Shea Moisture Hair Masque.

I wanted to start simple so I tried the Shea Moisture Hair Masque. I wet my hair thoroughly and then applied a moderate amount of product. I wrapped my hair in a plastic bag and spritzed with water as needed. I left it in for about 90 minutes and then washed out with Coconut Suave conditioner. I applied a small amount of the masque to the ends of my hair as they were drying, focusing on the bleached part.

My hair is so much better! It is smooth and sleek and hydrated. No more fried or crispy ends, and much less tangling. I am still shedding quite a bit, but not as badly as when I used the sulfate shampoo. It's like a hair miracle for me, haha. Never had my hair feel like this before. I am considering returning the rest of the stuff I bought except for the jojoba oil. I plan on using the hair masque once a week, conditioning daily or every other daily with Coconut Suave, and use jojoba oil as a 'serum' after I get out of the shower. The only concern I have is that there is some buildup on my scalp from the masque that is a little irritating. I am also suspicious that my hair might be breaking more easily, but I was sweating bullets today and my hair kept 'sticking' to me, so that might be where those concerns are coming from.

Thanks for all your help, I am going to keep experimenting. And for anyone with hair that sounds like mine, I would recommend the Shea Moisture Hair Masque. The main ingredients are shea butter, argan oil, and sea kelp. Never thought my hair would love shea butter at all, but there you have it.

[Firefox7275]

I'm wondering if somebody could give me some advice on starting out. Right now, my hair is at about mid-back length with many layers that are growing out. The strands are fine in texture and my hair is about average thickness. About 3 years ago I colored the entire head a reddish brown, but it has since faded to my natural ash-brown/blonde. However, I committed a huge crime. I bleached the under half of my hair blonde about 2 years ago. It took about two processes to get it to look platinum. From then on, I have just been touching up the roots and occasionally having a toner to lift the brassiness from the blonde. So I have that "skunk" hair (don't judge me lol).

All my life, my hair and scalp have been SO DRY/tangled/frizzy for 2 days after washing and then reverts to a greasy, limp mess on the 3rd day. Therefore I have no idea if I have oily hair or dry hair. I have been going back and forth between sulfates, cones, etc, and whether or not to shampoo or just condition. I used a sulfate shampoo to try and get my scalp clean and now my hair is crispy like straw. I did a condition-only wash last week and my hair was greasy within 24 hours. There is no in between.

My hair has a little bit of wave, and has defined ringlets when wet, but as soon as it dries it becomes like the Sahara desert and is straight. I can see the frizzy pieces popping out of my head even when I stand in the mirror after showering. I have tried oils, deep conditioners, Ojon hair mask, etc. Nothing seems to be able to quench it's thirst and the tangles ... oh the tangles :( I loose so much hair even when trying to comb it out with a detangling comb just trying to remove knots. It's not just the bleached parts either, although they are worse.

Silicones seemed to help for a short while, and I've stopped using them for about a month now; but I am tempted to go back.

I have toyed with the thought that my hair might be low porosity and not absorbing any moisture.


I guess my questions are:
1. Is my hair curly or wavy or what?
2. Where should I start. Should I condition only, wash only, use plain water? What products should I use? Sulfates, silicones - yes or no?
3. Can I continue bleaching and maintain healthy hair if I just do the roots?

Firstly when was the last time you did a chelating wash (will remove build up of minerals from water, pool chemicals, products? Once you have done that switch to a super gentle sulphate free shampoo, ideally pH 4.5 to 5.5 and free of all anionic surfactants. Over the space of a few weeks this should let your scalp calm and protective acid mantle/ beneficial flora regenerate. Either stick with that or move on to conditioner only when you feel the greasiness is under control.

The simple answer is you cannot have bleach blonde healthy hair nor healthy scalp, persulphate bleach is highly alkaline so damages and irritates the skin, it destroys the fatty protective f-layer and blows holes in the cortex of the hair making it highly porous. If you wish to remain blonde switch to a weak peroxide only box dye, or get an acid based salon colour. Still damaging but less so.

I would be extremely surprised if your bleached hair was low porosity, that practically defies the laws of science. Contrary to popular belief damaged or porous hair does not need more moisture (=water) it often needs less or a constant balance, more likely it needs more conditioner or penetrating oils. Too much water in hair weakens the protein bonds, water entering and leaving rapidly such as in washing is damaging, it robs structural proteins from the cortex and 'exhausts' the cuticle.

Ingredients proven beneficial for porous or colour damaged hair include coconut oil, hydrolysed protein, ceramides and panthenol. Hair is dead so damage cannot ever be permanently repaired, all you do is reduce porosity, increased elasticity and patch repair the damage, this takes patience and perseverance. Instant gratification from products is almost always down to silicones not actually stronger healthier hair. The more powerful humectants (glycerin, honey, aloe vera, propylene glycol) are a disaster for porous hair especially in very high or low dews unless used in very small amounts.

For detangling only do so in the shower with your head soaked in piles of a slippy conditioner, use fingers only, work in sections from the bottom up and go very slowly. To be honest tho, cut out the worst of the damage, hair in poor condition tangles easily on healthier hair damaging that too. Do not brush or comb at other times. Try to avoid tangles by putting your hair up or in a satin or silk sleep cap at night or use a satin or silk pillowcase, think about he collars on the clothes you wear and not allowing your hair to rub on car headrests etc.

[TheIronMaiden]

I wouldn't recommend any chemical dyes to someone with a very sensitive scalp. I gave up the dye myself, and it helped me a lot when it came to I getting my scalp healthy again. A few weeks ago I dyed my under to cope with my "ombre" look, and I could do it without killing my scalp. Letting your scalp less would probably help your scalp.
What kind of everyday hair routine do you have?

[samanthajenalyn]

I would recommend Shea Moisture Raw Shea Reconstructive Conditioner as a leave-in. I just bought it not to long ago and it has helped my hair not be so frizzy once it dries.

[sagremus]

Thanks for the advice anyone. I have decided to continue coloring my roots for the time being. I know it's bad for my hair, but I enjoy my style, especially when it's curled (rarely) or when I braid it. Thanks for your advice Firefox. What ways would you recommend to reduce porosity and increase strength of the bleached hair.

[WilfredAllen]

Research protein vs. moisture balance... there's a lot of good info out there that I'm too lazy to paraphrase lol

[oatmealpie]

Here's the link to Kimberlily's defrizz spray: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277

I love the SheaMoisture Hair Masque! I think I'll do it tonight.

[heidi w.]

It's easy to get started. Here's how: realize that it's all the details that add up to great hair, and if you skip a detail that is likely the crux of some type of problem

1. Wash and Condition the Length Only, not the scalp with a good conditioner. If you have to spend some money, spend it on a good quality conditioner. Allow me to recommend Biolage Conditioning Balm. It has done a great job for me for years, decades in fact.

2. Later on when you're good at washing the hair, you can oil the hair. I left a video on youtube on how to oil hair (look it up on google.com under Heidi w. oils hair. It works really well.

3. A few years ago I found a conditioner that was great for detangling hair while wet. AND it smells wonderful. My friends call it Chanel #5.

Use a comb, not a brush. It took me a while to convert to a comb cause regular combs do not go through my hair. I bought an extra wide tooth comb from Madora.com and have never looked back. Throw the brush away. It's useless.

Don't pile hair in a towel after washing it to dry. Let it air dry, or dry in front of several fans. Beware of using fans and how close you stand to them or hair can get caught up in them. Most hair stuff is common sense.

Don't tussle hair while washing. Comb it before jumping in the shower, then wash it. It'll go better, I promise.

This is a decent starter kit.

Heidi w.

As for what products to use I can recommend hydrating shampoo by biolage and I gave the recommendation for conditioner. These are quality products and not inexpensive. I buy in a large jar, the 38 fl. oz. jar, the conditioner. I literally coat my hair when washing it with this stuff, but NEVER the scalp. Reason: sebum does it's job all by itself on the scalp, so just let it be.

The stuff I use that's a detangle conditioner is by a woman I can't speak of on LHC. It's LHC rules. You'll have to PM me your email and ask. It can't be mentioned in email either.
Heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I would not color your hair anymore at all.
Heidi w.

[Firefox7275]

Thanks for the advice anyone. I have decided to continue coloring my roots for the time being. I know it's bad for my hair, but I enjoy my style, especially when it's curled (rarely) or when I braid it. Thanks for your advice Firefox. What ways would you recommend to reduce porosity and increase strength of the bleached hair.

As I said "Ingredients proven beneficial for porous or colour damaged hair include coconut oil, hydrolysed protein, ceramides and panthenol. Hair is dead so damage cannot ever be permanently repaired, all you do is reduce porosity, increased elasticity and patch repair the damage, this takes patience and perseverance."

Coconut oil particularly for porosity and elasticity, hydrolyed protein particularly for strength, ceramides are removed by shampoo and dye so they are very useful but less important. Panthenol can both penetrate and patch repair so increase elasticity and strength and help protect from further damage, not as 'powerful' as protein or coconut but widely found in products so easy to include. Shea butter will coat the surface but it won't penetrate or improve the true condition of your hair.

I still dye my hair and have no intention of stopping, what I do is use a much gentler overall system than I did and always pre-treat. My skin is sensitive/ eczematous and is fine, but I don't dye too often and I only use truly gentle products in the in between times - no sulphate shampoos, no alkaline soaps or baking soda, not even neutral pH shampoo.

[sagremus]

I don't use shampoo at all. I just wash with the Suave conditioner and am planning on using the shea moisture masque weekly. I have used coconut oil on my hair before (dry) and then washed and it didn't feel any different; may have even felt drier or crispier. I will try the coconut oil on my hair when it is wet. I also purchased jojoba oil and my skin loves it, will the jojoba oil act similarly to coconut oil on my hair?

[sagremus]

What is hydrolyzed protein?

[Firefox7275]

I don't use shampoo at all. I just wash with the Suave conditioner and am planning on using the shea moisture masque weekly. I have used coconut oil on my hair before (dry) and then washed and it didn't feel any different; may have even felt drier or crispier. I will try the coconut oil on my hair when it is wet. I also purchased jojoba oil and my skin loves it, will the jojoba oil act similarly to coconut oil on my hair?

Don't expect instant gratification from coconut oil or hydrolysed protein - although it can for some people - you might need many treatments to absorb enough to make a difference. With commercial products instant gratification comes from silicones which don't actually penetrate or make your hair healthier: remember that has is dead, it's not like treating skin which can sometimes look better in a couple of weeks of a change of routine because it's always growing.

If you do have porous hair and got dryness or crunchiness you perhaps didn't cleanse out the excess effectively. How long did you leave the coconut oil on for? What was underneath - clean-ish dry hair, or loaded with silicones and stylers or something else? Did you shampoo or conditioner-only wash it out?

Coconut oil on wet hair is unlikely to penetrate because it is water repellent, oil and water don't mix: the research is on dry hair. Coconut oil is not 'moisturising' or there to make hair feel nice - again it can for some people - it works from the inside to increase elasticity and reduce porosity, think of treatments as more like taking your prescription medication or eating your greens.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/mineral-oil-versus-coconut-oil-which-is-better

Jojoba oil does not penetrate, it will sit on the surface acting in a similar way to silicones, more of a protective role. So it's fine as part of an everyday conditioner if your hair likes it, but is not a deep treatment, will not penetrate nor make hair less porous. The reason is the size of the fatty acid molecules, the building blocks of the oil, only very small straight ones can slip under the cuticle.


What is hydrolyzed protein?

Protein that has been chopped into pieces small enough to slowly absorb into hair or stick to the surface, full size protein like that from whole eggs are too large to do much, chopped up protein like hydrolysed collagen (either a haircare ingredient or DIY from gelatin) work well. Protein is the same as coconut oil in that sometimes it makes your hair feel better, sometimes worse, you need to use it regularly, and you may have to try different ways of using it to get a result you are happy with.

That can be frustrating when you are used to commercial products that sit on the surface making your hair feel nice quickly, I just told myself that no commercial products or technique had made my hair strong and healthy - in fact they had badly damaged my hair! - so I was prepared to give a completely new system a year of my life and some £££ from my purse.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/proteins-why-you-should-care
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html

Let me know if I can help more, I have a science background so I 'get' most of this stuff but know it can be confusing for others. I explain and link to good articles because I don't want people to waste good money on products that will never do what they hope they will. I hate it that companies claim a product is 'strengthening' or 'deep' when there is nothing in the will do more than sit on the surface.

[sagremus]

I have left the coconut oil on overnight, and also left it on for a few hours before showering. Always on dry hair, and I have done this several times. I didn't use a super thick coat, and I just did my ends and then most of the bleached hair. One time I shampooed it off thoroughly and this left my hair feeling horrible. The next time I just used the conditioner, and it didn't feel any different.

Would a good routine be to use the coconut oil before showering (every other day or every third day), and then condition wash. Once a week use the shea moisture mask. And use jojoba oil as a serum to help with frizzies/fly-aways.

[sagremus]

What products have the hydrolyzed protein? I am vegan/vegetarian so I won't use gelatin or eggs etc.

[jessokitty]

Sorry to hear you're having problems with your hair. I completely understand when you say you feel like your hair is part of your identity, I too used to have "scene" hair and I also bleached the underneath section of my hair platinum and the top was black. Eventually the entire underneath section was destroyed and since the bottom section is where the majority of length comes from (if you have layers) my hair took forever to grow. It took years to grow out the damage from that style. As a solution I left a few blonde peekaboo streaks in the midsection of my hair around my face so as not to show roots but also not take away from length. I don't know the exact condition of your hair but I can say that bleaching the entire underneath section at least for me was very detrimental and I'd suggest just growing it out. If you do grow it out, it will turn into sort of an ombre look which is also a nice style. For now I would suggest protein treatments followed by moisture. Good luck!

[alexis917]

Just thought I'd add that oils seal in moisture, and if a tiny bit is used as a leave in, can smooth flyaways.
However, oils aren't inherently moisturizing!
The general consensus seems to be (and this is something I've seen debated over on here), most oils cannot penetrate the hair.

I'm a big fan of updos/braids every day to keep my ends protected and my hair soft!

And when I first joined I wanted to try EVERYTHING at once....I don't suggest you do that, haha.
Try to do a new experiment once every week or two so you don't overwhelm your hair...

I had bleach blonde, collarbone, layered "scene hair" freshman year.
It's junior year (after this summer) and I now have waist length virgin hair (dark brown)- with the exception of the bottom four inches, which went through the bleach damage and are a lighter brown.
People have asked if I "ombre" dyed it and I lie about it and say yes. XD

And I'm vegetarian too! When I do my SMTs I don't use honey, which is generally a vegan thing to avoid, but it can lighten hair and I'm terrified I'll prepare it wrong and have a weird color to deal with.

[sagremus]

I am happy about the length of my hair. It is bra strap length. If it gets longer I may cut it back. I would like to keep my hair healthy and improve it's condition. I will continue bleaching for the time being but have talked to my stylist about possibly switching in the future, such as dying it a color close to my hair's color and then leaving it.

[BlazingHeart]

The way you describe your scalp (dry, and then oily not long after washing), and the reaction to conditioner-only washing (limp and oily) it sounds like you've been using too harsh a cleaning method for your scalp. If you switch to washing with conditioner only, it WILL be oily for a while before your scalp adjusts. If I'm right, what's happening is this: you wash with something harsh, which strips ALL the oil from your scalp, making your scalp very dry. Your scalp doesn't like being dry, so it over-produces oil to try to fix things. Then you wash, and remove all the oil, making it dry....so it overproduces oil. Lather, rinse, repeat. When you break that cycle, and use a gentle washing agent (conditioner is a good one for a lot of people), your hair will very quickly look oily because your hair is overproducing oil still because it doesn't know you've stopped stripping it. Some people find they adjust very quickly (a few days), some people find it takes a bit longer (a couple weeks). Until you give your scalp time to figure out things are okay and calm down, you can't really know if it's the method that's causing the oiliness or your previous treatment of your scalp.

As far as color goes - are you interested in dyes that are not harmful to your hair? There are a few options, the best two options being being semi-permanents (which do not lift the cuticle of the hair, so your hair doesn't get damaged like with permanent dies) or natural dyes like henna or henna + indigo. The good thing about semi-permanents is that they aren't permanent, so if you don't like it, you just have to wait a month or two and it should be gone - the drawback is that you have to re-apply rather often. The good thing about henna is that it bonds to your hair, so it never fades - the downside being that it is pretty absolutely permanent, and hard to dye over. Either of those options would allow you to go darker and/or redder than your natural shade, but not lighter.