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leoninnu
July 14th, 2013, 02:44 PM
So, I've been struggling with really tangly, super powered velcro ends, damage and all sorts of nasty, unspeakable horrors for hair for a long time now. I finally woke up to how serious it had become when I took this picture:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5299&d=1373829526
That is half of my hair, separated from the ear level. Lower half is in ponytail to show the difference more clearly. All the hair in the ponytail is in super good condition. The hair that hangs free... well, you can probably see it yourselves. I knew it was shorter and in bad condition but I think now it's actually shorter than when I started over three years ago! I already blogged about that about a week ago and got some really good advice (thanks all ^_^) So now the situation is as follows:

I clarified my hair by washing with regular shampoo three times. And unlike previous times, I did not use any conditioner after, since I wanted to see and feel how the hair would be without any. I expected horrible. I knew it was absolutely horrible before, when I never used any conditioner at all. Well, it did look a bit nasty. But it felt amazing. And it still does. It was last Wednesday, all I have done after that is to use coconul oil to smooth it out a bit and it's still relatively tangle free. Not totally, but whoa! Only having like one or two small tangles during a day is a huge thing! It used to feel like I had melted cheese in my hair! Before, when I've clarified and used conditioner afterward, the hair has been better. But only in a "changed to light-cheese" kind of way. So now I can see that maybe conditioner is not meant for my hair at all. (I've used cony and cone-free both, no difference)

BUT. From my pre-LHC hair I also know that using only shampoo when washing will fry my hair pretty quickly. That means I still need to protect the ends when washing. I have some experience with WO and it didn't feel right, though I was not really persistant with it. I'm also looking in to sulfate free shampoos. But I also want to know, if I keep using regular shampoos (written as "reasonably priced" around here), can I use -for example- oils to protect my ends from the shampoo? Does coconut oil or olive oil work as well as conditioner for that purpose? Or if not oils, could something else do the trick?

jacqueline101
July 14th, 2013, 08:23 PM
Maybe you should shampoo and condition as your method.

leoninnu
July 15th, 2013, 04:30 AM
Nah, I really think I'm going to let conditioner go out of my routine entirely, at least for a while :) I haven't had hair that feels this nice when using conditioners, even right after clarifying, than I have now without any conditioner at all. So I'm not thinking of going from CWC to WC, but instead looking for replacing the first C that is supposed to protect the ends from the shampoo, do the W and the ditch the second C in favour of coconut oil and such. If that makes any sense? :laugh:

Ashenputtel
July 15th, 2013, 05:54 AM
I also don't really use conditionner and my hair behaves much better. You can always use a bit of conditionner before shampoo to remove heavy oiling then shampoo and then finish with a rinse.

leoninnu
July 15th, 2013, 07:50 AM
I also don't really use conditionner and my hair behaves much better. You can always use a bit of conditionner before shampoo to remove heavy oiling then shampoo and then finish with a rinse.

Ah, so oil is something that the shampoo doesn't rinse out too well? I think my brain got stuck to the limbo of the idea that conditioner = not good for my hair and decided to eliminate it completely. But I think I could use it before shampoo, as long as I make sure not to use too much. :hmm:

Flittingsis
July 15th, 2013, 09:16 AM
leoninnu - I haven't used shampoo in years, but recently needed a good clarifying. I found this http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57025 thread about oil-shampoo. I used half coconut oil and half castle soap. It did not work with my hair. Even after a day and a BS wash/ acid rinse my hair is still wrecked. My hair feels/sounds like straw and yet is oily at the same time. It is dry right now but the ends don't look it.
I think like people have success using shampoo, though. I would suggest reading everything through before trying and see what you think.
Good luck!

Ashenputtel
July 15th, 2013, 01:29 PM
Ah, so oil is something that the shampoo doesn't rinse out too well? I think my brain got stuck to the limbo of the idea that conditioner = not good for my hair and decided to eliminate it completely. But I think I could use it before shampoo, as long as I make sure not to use too much. :hmm: Many people here find that it is much easier to remove oil with condish it binds with it better and makes the removal easier. You can leave the condish 10 minutes then rinse and shampoo for best results.

spidermom
July 15th, 2013, 02:01 PM
Using conditioner first, then shampooing is not a bad option. I do this from time to time when it seems like my hair is limp and piecey. I think it has something to do with summer weather.

Most of the time I diluted shampoo wash, then condition. This gives good results.

You can always shampoo your scalp area, then hold the ends up while you rinse so that the suds don't run through them.

I doubt that washing/conditioning your hair is the problem, though. I'd suspect either a short growth cycle for those hairs or some kind of mechanical damage that you haven't figured out, yet.

ravenheather
July 15th, 2013, 03:02 PM
I try to minimize conditioner as well. I pre oil with coconut oil the night before I wash. Wash with shampoo in morning. It gets oil out no problem. Then I use a catnip tea soak instead of conditioner. Sometimes it's a long soak, sometimes a quick rinse, sometimes I spray it on my ends as a leave in. There's a whole thread on it. HTH.

leoninnu
July 16th, 2013, 04:58 AM
Yesterday I tried oiling my hair about an hour before washing. I washed with my regular mild shampoo and did not condition at all after. It got the oil out from the shorter hairs no problem, but the longer hairs were left somewhat oily. I think it could be about there being more shampoo on the top of the head than in the neck area and most of it then washing away along the surface. But shorter hairs are still very tangle free compared to the earlier situation. My hair looks decent too. I was afraid it would be looking bad.


leoninnu - I haven't used shampoo in years, but recently needed a good clarifying. I found this http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57025 thread about oil-shampoo. I used half coconut oil and half castle soap. It did not work with my hair. Even after a day and a BS wash/ acid rinse my hair is still wrecked. My hair feels/sounds like straw and yet is oily at the same time. It is dry right now but the ends don't look it.
I think like people have success using shampoo, though. I would suggest reading everything through before trying and see what you think.
Good luck!

Whoa, I think I've seen that one before, the movie star method! I just kinda brushed it off as something that would probably not be suitable for me. But now I think I could probably give it a try at least :)


Using conditioner first, then shampooing is not a bad option. I do this from time to time when it seems like my hair is limp and piecey. I think it has something to do with summer weather.

Most of the time I diluted shampoo wash, then condition. This gives good results.

You can always shampoo your scalp area, then hold the ends up while you rinse so that the suds don't run through them.

I doubt that washing/conditioning your hair is the problem, though. I'd suspect either a short growth cycle for those hairs or some kind of mechanical damage that you haven't figured out, yet.

Yeah, I think so too, that there's something there that I haven't found yet. But it will also be a huge help if those shorter hairs stop feeling like barbed wire. I have no idea how much damage is caused just by trying to de-tangle them. Even when trying to be super careful, it just feels horrible and then they tangle again within minutes. Now they feel much better and hopefully I will find the right method to keep them that way :)

I'm going to give up ponytails completely though. I'm also going to try either using sleep cap or satin pillow cases, haven't decided which one yet. And for winter I need to sew or knit a hat that can fit a bun held with a stick in it, since that was a huge problem last winter, being only able to do braids.

Firefox7275
July 16th, 2013, 09:23 AM
You can still condition-wash-condition, just choose a product with ingredients that do not build up as us Curly Girl method followers do. We use wash out conditioners as leave in, many never go near shampoo yet don't have problems with build up. Ingredients that can build up include many silicones, cetyl esters, polyquats, butters. How often are you detangling, with what product (brush/ comb/ conditioner) and when?

leoninnu
July 29th, 2013, 05:24 AM
You can still condition-wash-condition, just choose a product with ingredients that do not build up as us Curly Girl method followers do. We use wash out conditioners as leave in, many never go near shampoo yet don't have problems with build up. Ingredients that can build up include many silicones, cetyl esters, polyquats, butters. How often are you detangling, with what product (brush/ comb/ conditioner) and when?

(Sorry for the late reply)

The problem there is product availability. I've found only a couple of really silicone-free market brands and they haven't worked for my hair at all. And I don't even have any idea if they have those other things in them. After that it's a trip to the hair salon's shelves and that trip would end up taking 20+ euros from my pocket. With my current student income it's a big ouch. It might be an option later on though. But I've been skipping the conditioner after shampoo for couple of weeks now and it seems to work okay so I might not want to return to CWC at all.

As for detangling, for the last two weeks I do that once a day, after I wake up. I use my fingers first and then Tangle Teezer, which I like since it gives my hand better feedback and I can stop way before I yank or pull a knot. There haven't been that many tangles anymore. Combs haven't work for me at all, though I might have to give them a new try now. Then I use coconut oil if it looks like I need it.

Before that I had to detangle multiple times per day. My hair could have been detangled, then braided or bunned immediately and still had lots of tangles when I opened it. I used to think it's unavoidable, just the same phenomenon as when wires get tangled even when stored away :D

CopperSilver
July 29th, 2013, 01:21 PM
Can you get hold of baby oil? That should be within budget.

See this thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=86298

particularly page 5

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=86298&page=5 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=86298&page=5)

where ktani mentions that some of her friends had stopped using conditioner altogether.