Daily washing for dry scalp?

[Annibelle]

I'm the sort who CO-washes twice a week. But this summer, my scalp is really itchy and dry. (Which is particularly strange, since this is the wettest summer I've ever experienced.) Anyway, I've tried oils in the past, but they clog my follicles and make me shed like mad, so I was wondering if daily CO-washing would help my scalp, or if it would just dry it out further. What do you think?

Also, I'm wondering if anyone experienced renewed thickness with daily washing? I'm wondering if my follicles just can't handle stretched washes (though my hair handles it just fine).

Any thoughts? :flowers:

[Firefox7275]

Have you had your scalp issue formally diagnosed? Pruritis (itching) plus dryness or flaking would suggest more than xerosis (simple dry skin) which is not the most common cause of scalp problems anyway. Without an accurate diagnosis you shouldn't think of self treating, you can do more harm than good as you found with oiling. Reacting negatively to oils and/ or your own sebum again suggests more than xerosis. Frequently wetting flushes out the skin's natural moisturising factors so not recommended in some scalp complaints, but keeps the scalp clear so recommended in others.

The one thing you can safely do yourself whilst awaiting an appointment with your family doctor or a dermatologist is review your diet making it as anti inflammatory and nutrient dense as possible. Particularly look at your intake of oily fish, sugar and white/ refined carbs.

[ravenreed]

CO washing doesn't dry out my scalp out all. Because of the crazy weather here, I am basically CO-ing every day followed by an ACV rinse, followed by a catnip rinse.

[Annibelle]

Have you had your scalp issue formally diagnosed? Pruritis (itching) plus dryness or flaking would suggest more than xerosis (simple dry skin) which is not the most common cause of scalp problems anyway. Without an accurate diagnosis you shouldn't think of self treating, you can do more harm than good as you found with oiling. Reacting negatively to oils and/ or your own sebum again suggests more than xerosis. Frequently wetting flushes out the skin's natural moisturising factors so not recommended in some scalp complaints, but keeps the scalp clear so recommended in others.

The one thing you can safely do yourself whilst awaiting an appointment with your family doctor or a dermatologist is review your diet making it as anti inflammatory and nutrient dense as possible. Particularly look at your intake of oily fish, sugar and white/ refined carbs.

I'm not going to be making any sort of appointments because, well, I'm not wealthy. Besides, I'm too terrified of doctors to go when I break bones, let alone over a simple scalp issue! But thank you for your advice; whatever I do, I'll proceed with caution. I'm pretty good diet-wise, I think-- I'm a health-conscious vegan, so I don't think my scalp issue is diet-related.


CO washing doesn't dry out my scalp out all. Because of the crazy weather here, I am basically CO-ing every day followed by an ACV rinse, followed by a catnip rinse.

It's good to hear of someone who has good experience with this! Thanks! :flower:

[mamaherrera]

I have given up with docs too, but I've found with my scalp issue I need to daily wash, so I rotate with low poos/regular dandruff poos, and see if I can move toward more low poos. I find with teh summer heat and because I sweat so much (not mega sweat, but the scalp gets sweaty), it needs to be clean to be healthy. As you experiment, you do come to know your own scalp and it's needs. And docs that look at ya for five minutes, don't take any of that into consideration.

[Firefox7275]

I'm not going to be making any sort of appointments because, well, I'm not wealthy. Besides, I'm too terrified of doctors to go when I break bones, let alone over a simple scalp issue! But thank you for your advice; whatever I do, I'll proceed with caution. I'm pretty good diet-wise, I think-- I'm a health-conscious vegan, so I don't think my scalp issue is diet-related.


Being vegan might be contributing to the problem, it's extremely difficult to make that low glycaemic index or low glycaemic load and still maintain variety and balance, it tends to be higher in carbohydrates and omega-6 fatty acids so can be pro inflammatory, albeit also much higher in certain vitamins minerals and antioxidants than the standard western diet. If you have irritation/ inflammation and dehydration it's unlikely that diet or lifestyle factors are not playing a role, that would suggest an inappropriate immune response and/ or defective skin barrier.

Do you take a high strength long chain omega-3 (both DHA and EPA) marine algae extract and bioavailable form of vitamin D? Sorry to say this is pricey but there are no viable natural vegan alternatives, the only wholefood sources are oily fish and omega-enriched eggs. Short chain omega-3s from seeds like chia and ground flax are useful but the conversion rate to the useable long chain format can be as low as 10% so the amount you need to consume can be prohibitive, and conversion is negatively affected by the ratio to omega-6 (in all grains, nuts, many seeds and vegetable oils).

Sorry if you know all that, I am passionate about what I do for a living.

[ravenreed]

When I get itchy, dry skin, sometimes eating more avocados or upping my flax intake helps. Something else that helps is to treat my scalp and hair separately. Often what my hair needs is different from what my scalp needs. I occasionally use this Beauty Cleansing Bar (http://www.amazon.com/Beauty-Cleansing-Bar-3-5/dp/B00014EKJC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373650596&sr=8-1&keywords=bar+allantoin) on my scalp when it is upset with me. It isn't soap. From what I have been able to find out, it is basically allantoin and vitamin E. I found it a local health food store, but it was difficult to track down. Unfortunately, it is a little pricey online. I just lather my scalp and then CO everything else. I let it sit for a bit, and then rinse and CO again, including the scalp the second time. I LOVE this bar. It is all I use on my face these days. I also use it on the rest of my body when my skin feels itchy and dry. However, it doesn't do much for my hair, which is fine because the bar is sort of soft and doesn't last long. :(

[Annibelle]

Being vegan might be contributing to the problem, it's extremely difficult to make that low glycaemic index or low glycaemic load and still maintain variety and balance, it tends to be higher in carbohydrates and omega-6 fatty acids so can be pro inflammatory, albeit also much higher in certain vitamins minerals and antioxidants than the standard western diet. If you have irritation/ inflammation and dehydration it's unlikely that diet or lifestyle factors are not playing a role, that would suggest an inappropriate immune response and/ or defective skin barrier.

Do you take a high strength long chain omega-3 (both DHA and EPA) marine algae extract and bioavailable form of vitamin D? Sorry to say this is pricey but there are no viable natural vegan alternatives, the only wholefood sources are oily fish and omega-enriched eggs. Short chain omega-3s from seeds like chia and ground flax are useful but the conversion rate to the useable long chain format can be as low as 10% so the amount you need to consume can be prohibitive, and conversion is negatively affected by the ratio to omega-6 (in all grains, nuts, many seeds and vegetable oils).

Sorry if you know all that, I am passionate about what I do for a living.

Thanks for the advice. :) My diet is about 80% fruits and veggies, and then the rest is legumes, nuts, and grains. I was taking omega-3 and vit. D, but I haven't been taking vitamins for months because I keep forgetting... I'll have to get back to that. I'm not dehydrated, though, as I drink about 6 glasses of water per day, which seems about perfect for me. The only problem I seem to be having is a slightly itchy scalp.

[ravenreed]

I hope you are taking B-12 regularly at least? The only foods that naturally contain B-12 are animal derivatives.


Thanks for the advice. :) My diet is about 80% fruits and veggies, and then the rest is legumes, nuts, and grains. I was taking omega-3 and vit. D, but I haven't been taking vitamins for months because I keep forgetting... I'll have to get back to that. I'm not dehydrated, though, as I drink about 6 glasses of water per day, which seems about perfect for me. The only problem I seem to be having is a slightly itchy scalp.

[Annibelle]

I hope you are taking B-12 regularly at least? The only foods that naturally contain B-12 are animal derivatives.

I try, but I don't always remember. (Although B12 is from bacteria, so any dirty food SHOULD have it... but no, I probably don't get much naturally.) I'm trying to remember to take my vitamins, but it's so hard because I'm tired at night when I take them... (and if I take them any other time of day, I get a tummy ache. :( ) But anyway, I never had this scalp issue even when I never took vitamins and when I basically lived off of junk food, so I don't know that that's the problem. My DH is having the same issue, though. I think it's because our apartment is so dry, which we're not used to.

[ravenreed]

Given that low B-12 can cause irreversible damage to your body, I always recommend to my veg*n friends and family to take a supplement or periodically get a blood test to monitor their levels. You can be low and not even realize it.


I try, but I don't always remember. (Although B12 is from bacteria, so any dirty food SHOULD have it... but no, I probably don't get much naturally.) I'm trying to remember to take my vitamins, but it's so hard because I'm tired at night when I take them... (and if I take them any other time of day, I get a tummy ache. :( ) But anyway, I never had this scalp issue even when I never took vitamins and when I basically lived off of junk food, so I don't know that that's the problem. My DH is having the same issue, though. I think it's because our apartment is so dry, which we're not used to.

[McFearless]

I think it's because our apartment is so dry, which we're not used to.
Wetting your scalp more often may help with this, but CO washing is very cleansing for me and I have oily skin, so I can imagine it might have the opposite effect of what you're looking for if done daily.

Have you considered a humidifier? I would recommend it.

[Firefox7275]

Thanks for the advice. :) My diet is about 80% fruits and veggies, and then the rest is legumes, nuts, and grains. I was taking omega-3 and vit. D, but I haven't been taking vitamins for months because I keep forgetting... I'll have to get back to that. I'm not dehydrated, though, as I drink about 6 glasses of water per day, which seems about perfect for me. The only problem I seem to be having is a slightly itchy scalp.

Dehydration of the skin - you described your scalp as dry and sometimes shedding in the OP so I am completely confused if you are now saying the only issue is pruritis?? This is likely an inflammatory issue (suffix -ITIS) which is part of the the immune response.

Dehydration of the skin does not need to be related to systemic hydration levels, it can be related to nutrient deficiencies/ imbalanced, topicals or other health problems. Drinking water alone does not hydrate you, the body needs adequate compete protein, essential fatty acids including long chain omega-3s, carbs, overall calorie intake and several minerals. 80% fruit and vegetables sounds like it could well be imbalanced in macronutrients as well as micronutrients, it's tough to get enough essential fatty acids or proteins from such as small amount of other plant material. Produce is a great source of water, soluble fibre, some carbs, a limited range of vitamins and minerals, you need a surprisingly large amount of beans, lentils, nuts, seeds and grains to get enough of certain minerals without animal products. You also need sufficient fats and proteins to balance out the carbohydrates in plant material - make a meal low glycaemic index - stopping the diet being pro inflammatory.

Overall I am mentally flagging your intake of bioavailable vitamin D, B12, bioavailable iron, possibly complete protein, DHA and EPA, calcium and magnesium - any one of which can cause dermatological problems. I suspect there is little B12 producing bacteria on even a filthy piece of organic fruit or veg, you aren't eating solely foods with the surface area of, say, grass because we cannot digest them.

I'm not in any way anti vegan but the more food groups you eliminate from any diet (works exactly the same for low carbers/ Paleo/ high muscle meat eaters) the more regimented the diet needs to be and/ or the more supplements are necessary. It's actually easier to thrive/ survive on the imbalanced standard US/ UK diet because humans evolved to require certain nutrients that are primarily gotten from animal products (or extracted from non foods sources and put into pills). Nor am I suggesting dry air is not playing a role, but your body should be able to cope with that fine if your skin barrier is healthy, you don't have systemic inflammation and your immune system is responding normally.

Other than that I don't know how we can help you, you are not willing to seek medical advice so we are having to make educated guesses which you are minimising. Please don't make yourself chronically sick by ignoring relatively minor symptoms, I did and ended up with a long period on sick leave and since unable to work full time.

Best of luck.

[Annibelle]

Sorry, I don't think I was clear-- my SKIN isn't shedding-- my hair is. My hair has been getting thinner for the last 10 years. It's probably just because I'm aging, but I'm always looking for another answer.

I'm sorry if I sound stubborn, but not everyone is made of money to seek medical advice over trivial matters. Even just getting simple blood work done last summer cost me an entire month's paycheck (I'm a lowly teacher), and I am broke right now, so I'm not able to see a doctor now (even if I COULD stand the humiliation). I was just wondering about more frequent CO-washing, since my scalp is fine for a couple of days after washing. That's all. I'm sorry for bothering you with my stupid problems. :shrug:

[Firefox7275]

Sorry, I don't think I was clear-- my SKIN isn't shedding-- my hair is. My hair has been getting thinner for the last 10 years. It's probably just because I'm aging, but I'm always looking for another answer.

I'm sorry if I sound stubborn, but not everyone is made of money to seek medical advice over trivial matters. Even just getting simple blood work done last summer cost me an entire month's paycheck (I'm a lowly teacher), and I am broke right now, so I'm not able to see a doctor now (even if I COULD stand the humiliation). I was just wondering about more frequent CO-washing, since my scalp is fine for a couple of days after washing. That's all. I'm sorry for bothering you with my stupid problems. :shrug:

Again you are minimising or making assumptions: this might be something relatively minor but it might be symptomatic of a more serious health problem. In your twenties you should not be suffering age related hair loss, that should not happen until the forties or fifties. 'Firefighting' symptoms whilst ignoring the root cause is rarely effective, many different underlying issues can give the same superficial effect. I am sure nobody here wants to waste your money recommending a series of pricey topicals that have a good chance of not working because they are for a condition you don't have.

I'm not suggesting everyone is made of money, I am on a very low income myself as I am only physically capable of working part time and nobody else to share the bills with. Nobody has intimated you are stupid either, in fact several people have taken the time to try to help which might suggest we actually care!! What I do know is that diet and lifestyle modification is a safe and highly effective self treatment for many health problems, seems to me it's by far the best option you have at this point. Either you can be defensive or you can be open minded about that - I know from bitter experience defensive does not work, I don't want you to make the same mistakes I did with my health.

Hair shedding is a scalp/ follicle issue: could be a systemic health problem/ hormone imbalance/ nutrient deficiencies, once again experts believe irritation and inflammation play a key role in many cases. Sulphate shampoos can be a causative or contributory factor, various forms of dermatitis (oils rich in oleic acid are a problem in seborrhoeic). Being a teacher can be very hard work and stressful (most of my relatives are or were teachers!), stress contributes to systemic inflammation and also increases the body's needs for every nutrient at a time when people often eat a less well balanced diet.

HTH.

[Charybdis]

Hi, Annibelle, you could try something like ShiKai Moisturizing Shampoo (http://www.swansonvitamins.com/shikai-natural-moisturizing-shampoo-12-fl-oz-liquid), that contains a lot of aloe and glycerin. I can't control my seborrheic dermatitis (SD) without using sulphates on my scalp, but if you usually do OK with CO-washing, you probably don't have SD. The surfactants in ShiKai's shampoos are very mild and might give you better removal of scalp flakes than CO-washing, without drying you out too much. Then you could just follow up with your favorite conditioner as usual and see if that gives you any better results. ShiKai products are usually available at Whole Foods, or you can order online for not too much money.

I definitely second the suggestion to get humidifiers, if you can afford them, especially for the room you sleep in. (Just make sure to keep any humidifier sanitized correctly to prevent bacterial/fungal growth.) It will help your mucus membranes, too!

Re: B-12, nori seaweed is a good vegan source (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10794633). Maybe you could find nori sheets at a health food store or an Asian supermarket? You can usually find them with sushi supplies. You can also get a big old pack of 'em on Amazon for $15 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001PBKZK8). Anyway, it could be an alternative for you if vitamins give you tummy aches.

Hope you find something that makes your scalp happy! :flowers:

[LadyCelestina]

Annibelle,have you been outside for an extended period of time without covering your hair lately? What you are describing sounds like sunburn to me...

[nobeltonya]

I have to wash with regular shampoo every day, but I also condition liberally and use a leave-in. And I've been oiling the ends [the last 3-4"] every day, and the whole scalp and length every 3 days now that it's hot. My scalp really acts up if I don't wash it, and it smells, I get dandruff,... and the length goes flat, looks horrible.. but that's just me. You may benefit from COing every day. Try it for a few days, and see if you notice an improvement. I've tried CO, WO, not washing.. you just have to experiment and find out what works for you, so that your scalp and length are both happy. :) :disco:

[OhioLisa]

Don't worry about those here who want to imply that you must be doing something wrong or have brought this upon yourself. Criticisms of your lifestyle are obviously not what you were looking for, any more than scientific explanations to support such criticisms.

To answer your question, yes, daily CO can definitely help with keeping moisturized. One member here, Cinnamon_Hair, CO washes daily with great success. Many others of us do well with frequent washings. Not all scalps can handle stretching washings.

[starlamelissa]

Don't worry about those here who want to imply that you must be doing something wrong or have brought this upon yourself. Criticisms of your lifestyle are obviously not what you were looking for, any more than scientific explanations to support such criticisms.

To answer your question, yes, daily CO can definitely help with keeping moisturized. One member here, Cinnamon_Hair, CO washes daily with great success. Many others of us do well with frequent washings. Not all scalps can handle stretching washings.

Jesus you have been jumped on in this thread Annabelle. I totally get not being wealthy, I certainly can't visit the doc for every little thing. I go when for check ups, med refills, and absolute emergencies.

Anyways, I'm agreeing with Ohio Lisa, daily washes maintain moisture, cancel out scalp itchiness for a lot of lhcers, including nobeltonya, cinnamon hair, and, um, me.

I personally shampoo one day, conditioner only the next.

[sharonluvscats]

I'm the sort who CO-washes twice a week. But this summer, my scalp is really itchy and dry. (Which is particularly strange, since this is the wettest summer I've ever experienced.) Anyway, I've tried oils in the past, but they clog my follicles and make me shed like mad, so I was wondering if daily CO-washing would help my scalp, or if it would just dry it out further. What do you think?

Also, I'm wondering if anyone experienced renewed thickness with daily washing? I'm wondering if my follicles just can't handle stretched washes (though my hair handles it just fine).

Any thoughts? :flowers:

My scalp cannot handle stretching washes at all. Like you, my hair doesn't mind but my scalp sure hates it. I've learned that applying oils of any kind to my scalp makes the problem much worse. Seriously, even tea tree oil made my scalp more dry and itchy! I also cannot get conditioner anywhere near my scalp. I've been washing daily for the last week with various dandruff shampoos and my scalp is starting to look much better. If co washing doesn't upset your scalp I say, go for it. The whole stretching washes and using oils thing is not for everyone. I'm going to go back to every other day washing once my scalp calms down again. Good luck. :)

[Firefox7275]

Don't worry about those here who want to imply that you must be doing something wrong or have brought this upon yourself. Criticisms of your lifestyle are obviously not what you were looking for, any more than scientific explanations to support such criticisms.

To answer your question, yes, daily CO can definitely help with keeping moisturized. One member here, Cinnamon_Hair, CO washes daily with great success. Many others of us do well with frequent washings. Not all scalps can handle stretching washings.

Nobody has either simply 'criticised' nor implied the OP 'brought this on herself' - that is a rather unpleasant and wholly negative extrapolation - they have offered practical and potentially effective positive solutions. It's nonsensical and irresponsible to ignore science and lifestyle healthcare when talking about a dermatological complaint, however well meaning. What fundamentally is the difference between suggesting a change of skincare/ haircare routine or diet modification? Aren't you being critical of the OP's old skincare/ haircare regime by suggesting changes? Do you get offended if a health professional suggests self care instead of offering an operation or prescription, or are you pleased they care more about your wellbeing than the $$$?

If the problem is simple dry skin (xerosis) with no underlying health issues then daily washing *might* be the solution, however frequent wetting or soaking can flush out the skin's natural moisturising factors, worsening some skin conditions. Conditioners are not all created equal, many contain few ingredients that will 'moisturise' skin and you should not be leaving enough residues in place to act as a facial moisturiser would. The scalp has plenty of sebaceous glands, in the vast majority of cases it is capable of 'conditioning' itself. Ask yourself if the OP merely has xerosis, why does oiling not resolve the issue but worsen her shedding?

[Tori Angeli]

I washed every other day for years and had a terrible itchy scalp. Only recently when I started CO-washing did I start to wash every day, and have found that trying to stretch washes brings back the scalp problem. It's not 100% cured and it may or may not work for you, but it's helped me tremendously. Like Sharon, I've found that putting oils on my scalp makes it much worse, so when I oil my hair I leave my scalp out of it.

[summergreen]

I'm the sort who CO-washes twice a week. But this summer, my scalp is really itchy and dry. (Which is particularly strange, since this is the wettest summer I've ever experienced.) Anyway, I've tried oils in the past, but they clog my follicles and make me shed like mad, so I was wondering if daily CO-washing would help my scalp, or if it would just dry it out further. What do you think?

Also, I'm wondering if anyone experienced renewed thickness with daily washing? I'm wondering if my follicles just can't handle stretched washes (though my hair handles it just fine).

Any thoughts? :flowers:

Hi Annibelle :)

I have never done CO washing but with regard to washing more/less often, I found I gained more thickness by washing less often rather than more. However my hair did gain length faster when I was washing more often!

Washing more often does seem to get the scalp producing more sebum, and I have been told by a stylist that it's the massaging effect that does this - so maybe you could try gentle scalp massage if you dont do this already?

Regarding the itchiness, in addition to what's been said already, have you been trying any different foods lately? My scalp has reacted to certain fruits by going on a prolonged (because I didn't suspect the fruit for ages!) itchfest before.

[OhioLisa]

Nobody has either simply 'criticised' nor implied the OP 'brought this on herself' - that is a rather unpleasant and wholly negative extrapolation - they have offered practical and potentially effective positive solutions. It's nonsensical and irresponsible to ignore science and lifestyle healthcare when talking about a dermatological complaint, however well meaning. What fundamentally is the difference between suggesting a change of skincare/ haircare routine or diet modification? Aren't you being critical of the OP's old skincare/ haircare regime by suggesting changes? Do you get offended if a health professional suggests self care instead of offering an operation or prescription, or are you pleased they care more about your wellbeing than the $$$?

If the problem is simple dry skin (xerosis) with no underlying health issues then daily washing *might* be the solution, however frequent wetting or soaking can flush out the skin's natural moisturising factors, worsening some skin conditions. Conditioners are not all created equal, many contain few ingredients that will 'moisturise' skin and you should not be leaving enough residues in place to act as a facial moisturiser would. The scalp has plenty of sebaceous glands, in the vast majority of cases it is capable of 'conditioning' itself. Ask yourself if the OP merely has xerosis, why does oiling not resolve the issue but worsen her shedding?

Actually, you yourself criticized her, especially with your comments about her vegan lifestyle and "not wanting to seek medical advice". Here, as well as on the other site, you tend to talk down to people, who, quite frankly, are not interested in your scientific explanations, but are rather asking for the opinions of others based on their own experiences. If you do indeed possess scientific knowledge, that does not mean you have to flaunt it and, in turn, make others feel as though their inferior knowledge is the reason for their issues. Many people, including the OP (as evidenced by her response), find your manner offensive and hurtful. It's just not necessary.

And for the record, I did not criticize, nor suggest changes to her regime, but rather spoke of my, and others', success with a regime SHE HERSELF suggested and inquired about. I offered SUPPORT to her, which is what many people here need. (You are no expert, so your comparison to receiving the advice of a health professional is irrelevant.) And many people find oils too heavy, irritating, etc but benefit from the moisturizing effects of frequent CO washing.

[sharonluvscats]

^ right on. :D

[LadyCelestina]

And you are being rude to Firefox7275 now :) Awesome.

People who use scientific explanations or are very straightforward when posting in forums,are usually viewed as "looking down upon others" :)
I've seen people complain about quite a few members of this forum,the style of their posts being very similar.

Firefox7275 probably didn't help the OP much,as OP was not looking for a solution to scalp problems,but asking others for experiences with daily washing...