Sad Thin Hair :( Please Help. I box dye and that is making it worse

[Sinthia]

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this. I am so frustrated. I love long beautiful hair more than anything, and sadly that is just not possible with me. I am a natural blonde, with very very thin hair. I have been dying my hair black for about 13 years now, and I know that is making things worse. Horrible split ends from root to end, but I absolutely hate having light hair. Is there anything that I can do? I am including a photo. Thanks!http://i44.tinypic.com/a2vqbq.jpg

[ravenreed]

If all you want to do is go darker, demi-permanent dyes are much less damaging that box dyes. For that matter, you could probably switch over to Manic Panic or Elumen, which are very easy on the hair.

[dulce]

All I can say is dye caused my hair to thin and break,once I quit all dye my hair thickened up and got healthier.As you age it will become more pronounced,the thinning with the dyes.I was 55 when I quit dyes.I belong to 2 forums celebrating going gray and many others have complained of this.Hope you find a solution.Flat irons and blow dryers can also cause breakeage in delicate hair.

[Sinthia]

I have tried manic panic, but it only worked after I bleached out my hair :(

[akilina]

Stop using boxed dyed. If you can, go to a supply store...get tubes of black Demi permanent dye and 10 volume developer. This will be cheaper, and better for your hair. One tube will last you two root touch ups, so that is say...5 dollars a tube. A small bottle of developer is no more than 2 dollars. That bottle will last you two if not three uses for a tiny bottle. It's not hard. You just mix it one part color to two parts developer.

If you do not have grey hair then STOP using permanent color. I too have light blond hair and Demi dye always covers it with no fading. (Eta: I have some clients I use permanent color on with 10 vol developer and it works like a charm absolutely no fading) but still you probably don't need permanent at all, I'm sorry if I am assuming you use permanent but it seems like it might be the case

If you are using permanent box dye and putting it on your whole length every single time I can see why there would be damage and thin ness. Box dyes generally have a volume of developer far far higher than you even need.

[Unofficial_Rose]

If you definitely dont want to go lighter (because indigo cannot be lightened), how about a two step process with henna and indigo? That will get you black. Henna has saved my hair on occasions when I am drawn back to the chemical dyes. There is information on the henna thread on here but also over at hennaforhair.com on how you might do this. I'm pretty sure you could do this over the existing dye so long as you use pure henna and indigo.

[Sinthia]

Thanks so much for the responses! I will look into the demi dye, and I have heard about henna/indigo before but have never tried it. Is it drying, or will it not cause thinness at all? Thanks!

[Wildcat Diva]

I thought Akilina's post was very informative. Maybe you can go the route she said, if you don't decide to do hennaindigo? I know there's a ton of info on that as well.

I bet your hair could grow in thicker than it is right now for sure if you stop using strong chemicals that damage it. But it's gonna take a while.

[Unofficial_Rose]

Henna and indigo definitely won't cause thinness - it generally makes hair thicker (even thin, weak hair like mine). I found it strengthening and moisturising but there are a few people who experience a little dryness. Personally I found chemical dyes thinned my hair out too, although it wasn't really noticeable until I got into my forties.

The only problem is, if you want to change the colour, you can't, it has to be grown out and cut off. Bleach or peroxide of any kind plus indigo = green (excuse me if you know this already).

[Sinthia]

Thank you so much for the replies, truly! I think henna/indigo seems like something I would love to try. I do not see myself wanting to have light hair any time soon, since I have been dying it dark for so long. Before I start searching, are there any threads/sites that are a must read? Thanks!!

[Unofficial_Rose]

There is some good information (how-to's and examples) on www.hennaforhair.com esp. http://www.hennaforhair.com/indigo/index.html and http://www.renaissancehenna.com/Default.aspx, also there is a Henna Recipes tips and tricks section on this site. It's useful to read other people's experiences, but basically...

1) If you mix up henna + indigo and put it on, you will get brown hair
2) If you apply henna, rinse it out, then apply indigo on it's own you will get black hair

You may get a red flare in the light though, because henna is red, so for this reason you may prefer Akilina's idea. See what you like the look of best! Good luck!

[akilina]

I'd say a two step process may be worth it to see how you like it :) I wish it worked for me..Like it does for some so perfectly. i then just started using henna only and really enjoyed using henna but had to stop after losing so much hair every single timr after many different things tried to minimize the intense shed.

[red-again]

I use henna and indigo as a two step. My hair is naturally dark anyway but a with a good amount of grey and I bleached my hair in feb 12 to go bright red but hated it so went back to henna and indigo. The pic you can see to the left is henna and indigo on pretty much damaged bleached blonde hair.For the blackest black, and to get the indigo part right in there, I would advise henna for about four hours, then indigo with a good tsp of salt in ( makes it bond stronger) and a tablespoon of the henna ( frozen and defrosted) mixed in just before application, for up to two hours - it will demise after this but adding henna again to this stage will further add to the henna layer on your hair which is what indigo needs to bond strongly. Rinse but no shampoo or condish Then apply a straight indigo got two ours. Then rinse, gently but well and condition well. I'm pretty sure you will get the most amazing black ( but warm and multi tonal and shiny, not flat like you get from box dye) it really isn't a compromise colour for me at all, it is better than anything out of a box.When your roots grow in I think you may need to follow the lengthy process above as you will have healthy blonde hair to change many shades to black. But it can be done. The thickness and conditionOne last thing, make sure you buy body art quality henna (BAQ) and indigo that is preferably organic. ( mehandi, henna sooq, nightblooming etc) as you will have many chemicals on your hair already e from the box dye so you don't want any nasties in your herbals.Please post pics. Long healthy hair and you here you come!

[red-again]

I'd say a two step process may be worth it to see how you like it :) I wish it worked for me..Like it does for some so perfectly. i then just started using henna only and really enjoyed using henna but had to stop after losing so much hair every single timr after many different things tried to minimize the intense shed.
Have you tried the henna from mehandi that is for African Hair, it wasn't red enough for me and my greys but the sift and texture of it is really really fine and I literally had no hair loss with it.

[juliaxena]

One word - Elumen.

[jacqueline101]

I'd try alma oil to darken your hair.

[ravenreed]

I use Elumen on my hair without bleaching it and it works fine. It is a bit labor intensive compared to normal box dyes, but about the same as henna.


I have tried manic panic, but it only worked after I bleached out my hair :(

[jeanniet]

I think two-step hendigo is a possible solution, but be cautious because the process often causes a fairly heavy shed (during, not after). I'd easily shed twice as much as usual, and I already shed quite a lot because I have thick hair. For someone with thin hair that's already damaged, I'm not sure I'd be willing to risk it. In your case, I think I'd try to get my hair in better shape first. Maybe try Elumen (which is pretty gentle), along with some deep treatments, trim some of the damage, and see how much it improves. You can always go to hendigo later. Be aware that if you use indigo, you cannot bleach over it, ever!

[Sinthia]

Thanks so much for the replies. I really do not treat my hair too badly. I only put dye on the entire length maybe twice a year, and only for a few minutes. I will only use any type of heat on my hair a few times a year as well. I did lose about 125 pounds over 1.5 years and I noticed during that time my hair really thinned out too. Where can you find the elumen? I have never heard of that before. I think I am going to try to get my hair in to better shape, and use the demi on my roots when absolutely necesarry, and then look into the henna/indigo.

Also, when I try to access alot of features on this site , I get this message.
Sinthia, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

I have had this account for a while, is there any way to have my account activated? Thanks!

[AmyBeth]

There is hope Sinthia! Within the past year and a half I have astonished myself, DH and DDs with easily doubling the thickness of my hair. I thought I had THE saddest, thinnest hair on earth. Learn about LHC methods of hair care and check out the henna/indigo pages. If I can have thick shiny hair (and I can- yippee):agree: anyone can.

[starlamelissa]

I don't see how hair can be split from root to tip! Or how hair color can thin hair.

[ravenreed]

If you have layers, you can get split ends up near the roots. I occasionally find one in my nape hairs, which are only a couple of inches long. Depending on the dye and the developer strength, they can cause a lot of damage and breakage, which can make the ends look thinner.


I don't see how hair can be split from root to tip! Or how hair color can thin hair.

[Vampyria]

Also, when I try to access alot of features on this site , I get this message.
Sinthia, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

I have had this account for a while, is there any way to have my account activated? Thanks!

You need more posts. I think that 50 is required for editing your posts and 100 for seeing other people's profiles and the restricted-access boards.

[Firefox7275]

Do your roots only with a weak permanent box dye - does not need to be as strong as persulphate bleach just low vol peroxide - then your lengths with a high pigment semi permanent like Manic Panic. Leave the semi permanent in for several hours to overnight to get lasting colour, there are no harsh chemicals so this is safe and commonplace. I switched to this method for red and have grown out a ton of porous damaged hair over the last couple of years, my colour actually lasts longer as semi permanent than it did as permanent!Persulphate bleach is a disaster for naturally blonde hair, if there is no melanin for the bleach to work on it will start 'eating away' at structural proteins. Repeat exposure to bleach or peroxide is one of the worst things you can do to any hair type, especially fragile or fine.Beneficial ingredients for porous and colour treated hair include coconut oil, hydrolysed protein, ceramides and panthenol. Avoid sulphate surfactant shampoos, baking soda and bar soaps, these are all too harsh for colour treated hair, wash in cool water with a product at pH 4.5 to 5.5, sulphates can also contribute to hair loss in susceptible individuals. You can box dye after an overnight coconut oil soak if you want to further protect your roots, you can also add melted coconut oil to the bottle of some permanent products. Semi permanents need to be applied to clean hair tho.

[Of the Fae]

Hi :)
I recommend using a henna indigo two step and afterwards maybe do an oil treatment to your tips as well.
What always works well for me when my hair is dry is to use coconut oil, extra virgin. It also smells nice!
The box dye makes the hair dry, you need moisture and definitely indeed stop the chemical dyes. It would cause everything to break off as it grows

[starlamelissa]

agreeing with firefox. I color the roots of my red hair with revlon colorsilk auburn 42, a no ammonia haircolor that is CHEAP. I have recently started using a "Roots only" bottle for this, and have found it to be very good for this purpose.

I do the lengths every so often with manic panic or another direct deposit (special effects) diluted with vo5 conditioner. Its like a deep conditioning treatment! and I get good retention of color this way.

I DO use sulphate shampoo, but I stick to moisterizing gentle ones. I also dont pile my hair on top of my head, and I use obscene amounts of conditioner. I also rotate products between a protien heavy product, and a moisture heavy product.

[dulce]

I used boxed and then later salon dyes only ,as my gray roots came through so fast it had to be coloured every 2 weeks,my hair became brittle,brassy and dry ,even breaking off all over.I decided to go gray and go very long again,to my surprise my thinning hair and bald top spots completely disappeared.My longer ,silver[no dye] hair has thickened up tremendously over the last 4 years. With some of us older ladies it appears frequent dye use as well as damaging overall hair can affect hair follicles on the head,shutting some of them down.They do reactivate once you stop all dye.I thought I was the only one but have had others talk to me about the same thing happening to them.It doesn't happen to everyone as people are different but it does appear to happen to some.

[Firefox7275]

Dulce The harsh chemicals in permanent dye include powerful alkaline agents, peroxide and sulphate surfactants, any of which damage the skin's barrier function (irritation --> inflammation) and can so cause or contribute to hair loss. I am surprised a salon agreed to do your roots every two weeks, your skin barrier/ beneficial flora would not have a chance to recover in that short time frame so acute inflammation could become chronic, especially if you were using sulphate surfactants and other harsh chemicals in between. Anyone of any age is at risk, tho hormonal changes and the slower turnover time/ thinning of the skin may increase the risk. Lifestyle factors play a role too, whether the diet and lifestyle is pro or anti inflammatory.

[dulce]

They were very happy to do it that often[twice a month],even telling me my temple grays were now resistant to dye and they'd have to pretreat with another chemical first before the dye to allow the temple white hair to accept the colour,at that point I walked away from it all ,about 4 years ago ,went very long and silver and am very happy I did that.My age related hair loss that I thought I had ,for me,was actually just accumulated damage due to dyes. Funny,they were happy to dye so often to hide my gray but now if I walk in a salon my long ,silver healthy ,thicker hair gets negative reactions from most hair stylists.They always want to colour my hair even if I just book a trim.I have to be very firm with them-no dye.I would love to find a stylist that supports my hair choice[very long and silver] but so far no luck,I know they are out there,just have to find them.
Anyway, someone asked how dye can possibly cause hair loss so thought I'd share my story.I belong to 2 gray hair forums on facebook and quite a few others went through what I did[frequent colour to hide fast growing, glaring gray roots and resultant
hair thinning.

[Firefox7275]

Dulce Sounds like you have more knowledge and sense than many stylists! The reaction you are getting has parallels for wavies and curlies, either we go unrecognised and they think we have unruly 'straight' hair or the salon want to flat iron or both, many can't cope with embracing our natural beauty. What is more striking and attractive than long healthy silver hair or long healthy curly hair?? Off the wall suggestion but I wonder if you'd do better at a salon that offers a curly specialist service, if they can appreciate our natural beauty maybe they are more likely to embrace yours? Surely professional stylists should love hair and all its variety?

[dulce]

One last comment ,when I was younger dyeing was no problem ,the colour lasted 6 weeks or so and no roots [as I did a colour fairly close to my natural colour] with age and more gray and less pigment in my hair the light to medium ash brown dyes and even when they used lighter salon colours later, didn't stay well on my overall head hair,it would look nice for a week then fade to a overall brassy reddish colour all over my entire head.I was told that was due to all the underlying gray hair.So I had glaring silver roots,fading brassy orangy overall hair a week or so after each salon colour-so frustrating.I grow very fast,hairstylists used to comment-an inch a month at least so my glaring silver roots show up pretty quick . My hair did not look nice to say the least.I thought I just had bad hair luck till I discovered those 2 gray forums and realized others had this same experience.This was my experience with dyes as an older lady.Now, am sure not all older ladies have this frustrating experience,it probably depends on your underlying hair colour and how strong your hair is and other factors,but a lot do.

[dulce]

You are right,in the past ,they would cut my curly hair wet as if it was straight[can you say curly shrinkage!],dry it,then flat iron it to send me home.Needless to say my hair cuts never looked great in the past.There now are a few deva curl stylists near me but when I talked to them[consultation] they want to cut my past hip hair to just past shoulders so I cut my own now.I did see a stylist 2 months ago to ask for a v cut in back ,side layers and no length cut.She did that , but unfortunately tried to persuade me to dye . So am still looking for a stylist that supports me as I am[long and gray]

[dulce]

Anyway,Sinthia,I hope you find a solution,thining hair is so frustrating especially for a woman.As well as overall thinning in my 40's due to dye and heat,at menopause age 51, I developed a bald spot behind my bangs and thinning temples[due to hormones] so I used 5% minidoxidol on those areas only once a day and it filled in slowly.I had no side effects or problems with it[didn't use a high dose],and now just use it as maintenance a few times a week.If you are not menopausal don't get pregnant if you use it [as precaution]Minidoxidol would not be suitable for everyone but it can be used by quite a few women.Save it for a last resort.Have you had blood tests for thyroid and ferritin/iron checked?Also do you have PCOS? That can thinning hair but an endocrinologist can help for that. Also I noticed a positive difference when I made sure to get 60 grms of lean protein a day[whey shakes,greek yogurt,salmon and fish/chicken.

[Sinthia]

Wow, thank you so much for all of the replies. I really feel like there is hope for me now. I have a lot of reading to do. Thanks!!!

[Vanilla Mint]

Dulce, I can't wait until my silver takes over enough to let it go wild! I dye my hair a copper blonde these days [need to update my avatar!] because it's an easy and quick jump from my "dishwater" roots, since I already have enough silvers that they don't play will with black dye anymore. Looking at your hair is such an inspiration. I wish it weren't considered so taboo for women to embrace beautiful silvers and whites (funnily enough, the look is often considered "distinguished" and "handsome" on men, hmph.)

Sinthia, the sooner you ditch the box dyes, the better. You've gotten some excellent advice here, but there's really no need to be using box dyes for cost effectiveness, nor for lasting power. Most box dyes that aren't blonde or bright red will come with 20 vol, and if you're going darker, you can get away with a 10 vol, which your scalp and hair will greatly appreciate. Ion (a US brand) makes a "sensitive scalp" formulation. Otherwise, definitely look into henna or Elumen. I would also monitor your stress levels and make sure you're taking your vitamins (or otherwise eating healthily.) Good luck!

[wavyhair]

use henna instead i use to use boxed colours all the time because i hated having medium brown hair now if i do i only use henna i used henna 2 years ago but now im gunna embrase my grey free nautral colour i havent got any grey so im going to take advantage of that while i still can.

also get all splitends cut off at once your hair wont get thinner then and it will grow back thicker castor oils also good at making hair thicker and regrowth!
diet is also key! and so is enough water.

also of the fae has a realy good point about the coconut oil its amazing !!!!! its restored my hair and i cant live with out it.

also black hides damage quite well so it could be more dammaged that you think so defently get a trip.

[wavyhair]

also you hair will defently improve ! trust me your hairs not that bad theres 1000's of times worse that have transformed their hair !

[BlazingHeart]

I think you have gotten some great advice. I just wanted to add one point - weight loss as swift as yours typically means that you aren't eating enough basic building blocks to sustain hair and body health. Your body naturally prioritized the things you needed to stay alive. I'm not saying what you did was bad or unhealthy, I am sure you have a doctor monitoring that. All I am saying is that weight loss and optimum hair have different nutritional needs. Once your weight is stabilized and you are eating enough protein, you may experience a bunch of new growth. It tends to take a few months, and then you may find yourself thinking you are all frizzy when you are really looking at new baby hairs.