School in Ohio Bans Afro Puffs and Braids

[Firefox7275]

But it's OK, because the institutional racism was only in draft copy of the dress code. :rolleyes:
http://strawberricurls.com/2013/06/21/ohio-school-bans-afro-puffs-and-braids/ (http://strawberricurls.com/2013/06/21/ohio-school-bans-afro-puffs-and-braids/)

[The-Young-Maid]

How dare they?! How can they ban natural hairstyles when they say "hair must look natural...". :steam

[melusine963]

I'm glad they saw sense and overturned this. What a ridiculous idea in the first place.

[Kaelee]

Absurd on so many levels!!!

I actually think most of their dress code is absurd ('no earrings in the nose, eyebrow, lips or tongue'...um...you don't wear earrings there!) and somehow pants should be 'not form fitting' which to me means, they shouldn't fit properly. With my henna I wouldn't even be capable of following the hair portion of the dress code. :-P
I
But seriously, banning someone's NATURAL HAIR TEXTURE smacks of racism as well as the same stupidity with which the rest of the dress code was written. I'm betting the administration didn't even realize that was just how African hair behaves. Which I'm not saying in their defense, it's abhorrent to me that an educational institution could be that uninformed.

[jacqueline101]

That's over the top. I can understand about the tight holly jeans our girls wear that have holes in the rear and crotch. They don't wear under pants. The hair is much.

[jeanniet]

Prime example of a white administration not understanding and making assumptions. I will bet you anything that they didn't know AA hair doesn't grow in straight. Racism through ignorance is still racism.

[Kaelee]

Prime example of a white administration not understanding and making assumptions. I will bet you anything that they didn't know AA hair doesn't grow in straight. Racism through ignorance is still racism.

Just what I was thinking....I'm imagining the conversation that happened behind closed doors once someone made the realization that African American hair just grows like that, and their "Afro Puff" is actually just a ponytail. If it weren't so enraging it would be pretty hilarious.

[jeanniet]

Just what I was thinking....I'm imagining the conversation that happened behind closed doors once someone made the realization that African American hair just grows like that, and their "Afro Puff" is actually just a ponytail. If it weren't so enraging it would be pretty hilarious.

Errr...I probably should not have made the assumption myself that it's necessarily a white administration. Any ethnicity can have erroneous assumptions about another.

[Kaelee]

Errr...I probably should not have made the assumption myself that it's necessarily a white administration. Any ethnicity can have erroneous assumptions about another.

Good point! :agree:

[Firefox7275]

Do schools and other state organisations in the US not have a member of staff responsible for upholding equal opportunities/ a diversity policy? The dress code demonstrates both institutional racism and institutional sexism. Furthermore parents have to 'request permission' to wear religious headgear instead of a parent simply informing the school, boys may be asked to cut their hair - the right to practice one's religion unimpeded is in question. It may well be they would never refuse 'permission' for a Muslim girl to wear a headscarf or tell a Sikh boy to cut his hair in practice, but the dress code is worded so badly that is an option!! How do they deal with students with disabilities, be that physical or learning? What about a transgender child?

[patienceneeded]

Is it a private or charter school? I looked at the documents and sounds like a private school, possibly public charter. They don't have to follow the same rules and laws that public schools do, and can enforce any dress code they want/discipline for infractions how they see fit. As far as the "no afro puffs and braids" policy (which was retracted) that is borderline racist, or at the very least ignorant. The rest of the dress code is actually fairly standard for a private or charter school.

From the documents I get a sense that there is a uniform required, students are not to just wear "whatever." Under that uniform policy they expect the clothing to actually fit and not be altered. This makes sense. Dress codes like that are in place to provide a safe and distraction-free learning environment. It allows all the students to have somewhat equal footing, appearance wise. It's a lot harder to judge poverty level/SES status when you have limited options to choose from.

I teach in a public school. Students wear "whatever" but we have in the rules that girls cover their cleavage, tank tops must have 2" straps, no midriff baring shirts and skirts or shorts must be mid-thigh or longer. No destroyed jeans with more holes than denim. Boys are not allowed to sag (gang identification). No inappropriate messages (beer, pot, hooters, etc) on clothing. No bandanas or hats. Religious headscarves are fine (we have a few Mulsim girls). They can do whatever they want to their hair.

DD goes to a private school. They do not require a uniform but their dress code is still strict. All skirts and shorts must be knee-length. No tank tops for either gender. Girls may wear "sleeveless" shirts, but the entire shoulder must be covered. Younger girls (playground age) need to wear shorts under skirts and dresses of going bare-legged. Nothing form-fitting or figure-displaying. Cleavage is a no-no. No sagging pants. Obviously, nothing that is in contradiction with the Lutheran school's priorities and values. No odd colors in the hair (nothing that is clearly not natural), no tattoos - real or fake. No flip-flops for the playground age kids.

Across the street from DD's school is a charter school. They have a uniform and it is strictly enforced. Navy blue or Khaki slacks, shorts, skirts, or dresses. Polo shirts in white, or navy blue. Shoes are black or brown. No heels, no sandals, no flip-flops. Skirts/shorts/dresses must be knee length. No rips, tears, or alterations to the uniform. Clothing must fit appropriately. No sagging or tight clothes. Hair must look neat. Nothing odd or alternative. Boys need to keep their hair groomed and out of the face/eyes. Girls hair also cannot hang in the face.

To be honest, I wish my (public) school was able to be a little more strict on the dress code. Some of my students come to school looking like they are displaying their (uhm...) assets for purchase. Others clearly only have 2 shirts they own. It's harder to tell the "haves" and the "have nots" when they all look somewhat similar to begin with.

I understand being "free to be yourself" and the need for individuality. I have 12 ear piercings, and have dip-dyed ends. I do not dress like a "teacher," half the time I'm wearing the same shirt as a student. (I do keep the cleavage hidden and my skirts/shorts knee length or longer) I do, however, wish that a modest dress code for school was the norm, not something to be decried as sexist, biased, racist, discriminatory, etc. There is nothing wrong with asking students who are coming to a school for education to actually be dressed for education...not the after party, a slumber party, a frat party, or a rave.

[The-Young-Maid]

patienceneeded I agree that more schools should have dress codes/uniforms. I wish my school had uniforms, it would be nice not to think about what to wear to school everyday. Clothing can be very distracting for me when I'm trying to learn if it rides up/sits wrong/too tight/too low cut etc(seriously its all I can think about).:rolleyes: It's just one more thing I don't want to worry about. As long as the uniform is comfortable - I'm all for it! I don't need to dress a certain way to express myself, I understand other people want to and thats totally fine. Just don't touch my hair.:patrol:

[Kaelee]

Do schools and other state organisations in the US not have a member of staff responsible for upholding equal opportunities/ a diversity policy? The dress code demonstrates both institutional racism and institutional sexism. Furthermore parents have to 'request permission' to wear religious headgear instead of a parent simply informing the school, boys may be asked to cut their hair - the right to practice one's religion unimpeded is in question. It may well be they would never refuse 'permission' for a Muslim girl to wear a headscarf or tell a Sikh boy to cut his hair in practice, but the dress code is worded so badly that is an option!! How do they deal with students with disabilities, be that physical or learning? What about a transgender child?

I agree with all of that, it's got to be one of the worst dress codes I've seen. But I'm not a fan of dress codes that in any way (other than safety) involve hair or body. Clothes, sure (within reason. Or solve the problem and have a uniform.) But I do NOT want to be told how my hair can look at school/work in a way that limits the way I can have it OUTSIDE of school/work. And I don't want to see it enforced upon children either, because what that teaches is that we do not have the right to control over our own bodies.

[jeanniet]

Very often in urban areas (and heck, in suburbs as well) dress codes are also meant to avoid gang issues in the schools. Also one reason for school uniforms. Obviously at times there are poorly thought-out rules, but I think for the most part the codes are for the well-being of the children and not meant to single anyone out. It's not always that easy to think of every possible scenario that should be an exception.

In this particular instance, I doubt a Sikh boy would be an issue because their hair is always up and covered, so technically would be above the collar. If the admins never actually see it, they can't complain about it. If they did, I think there'd be a lawsuit in the making.

[DancingQueen]

I can accept they might want to have a dress-code for school. Not that I agree with it, but they have the right.

If they want hair to be kept neat and tidy, they should write that 'all students must keep their hair neat and tidy', instead of banning certain hairstyles. But what I am most upset about is that they can actually dictate the length and style of the students hair. Boys can't grow longer than collarbone, and can be told to cut it! And no mohawks, hairdye and so on...

The way we wear our hair is simply too personal. I could accept having to have a certain hair style at school, for example having to wear a french twist. In some of my classes, we are actually required to keep our hair up, and not wear jewelry. But to dictate the actual style in which the hair should be cut, to me, that is simply wrong. Pircings and glasses can be worn after school, fine. But my hair is the one thing I will not let anyone dictate. It is just a very personal thing.

Maybe it is because I am at LHC, but I think a lot of people would be very upset if they were told to cut their hair to attend school.

[Kaelee]

I can accept they might want to have a dress-code for school. Not that I agree with it, but they have the right.

If they want hair to be kept neat and tidy, they should write that 'all students must keep their hair neat and tidy', instead of banning certain hairstyles. But what I am most upset about is that they can actually dictate the length and style of the students hair. Boys can't grow longer than collarbone, and can be told to cut it! And no mohawks, hairdye and so on...

I agree with this. And the biggest problem I have with it, is it changes the way I can have my hair OUTSIDE of school/work/wherever we are. If they're telling me I have to have a certain haircut, that's for all aspects of my life, NOT just the 8 hours a day I'm at school. I can't enjoy my hair the way I want to on my own time, because of the permanent limitations that are imposed by the dress code. I can't take a haircut off at the end of the day like I would remove a uniform- a haircut is for the duration. Same with color. I have a BIG problem with this. In fact, I've pretty much decided that I will not cut/color/remove piercings to conform to a job at this point. *chuckles* When I was younger people told me I would eventually see that jobs/etc. were more important, but I've actually found the opposite to be true the older I get. I will not allow anyone to dictate my appearance and my enjoyment of my body on my free time. Where I work (Or go to school) does not get to dictate who I am.



The way we wear our hair is simply too personal. I could accept having to have a certain hair style at school, for example having to wear a french twist. In some of my classes, we are actually required to keep our hair up, and not wear jewelry. But to dictate the actual style in which the hair should be cut, to me, that is simply wrong. Pircings and glasses can be worn after school, fine. But my hair is the one thing I will not let anyone dictate. It is just a very personal thing.

Maybe it is because I am at LHC, but I think a lot of people would be very upset if they were told to cut their hair to attend school.

I can't agree with making everyone wear a specific hairstyle only because it might not be a style that's achievable for everyone- the French Twist you mention for instance, is very problematic for me and several other thick-haired people on this forum alone. I don't want to be told that I need to wear a style that I have to use 40 hairpins, heat and gel in order to achieve it, or have to deal with the frustration, embarrassment and hassle of having to go to school/work/wherever in a different style and then explain that my hair just will NOT conform to the required style...with my thickness, for instance, I am at BSL (and I wear my bra strap low!) and am only just now being able to do styles that many people can do at APL....some of them even shoulder!

[Firefox7275]

In this particular instance, I doubt a Sikh boy would be an issue because their hair is always up and covered, so technically would be above the collar. If the admins never actually see it, they can't complain about it. If they did, I think there'd be a lawsuit in the making.

Here in the UK a Sikh boy would wear a high topknot with a little 'bun cover' or handkerchief, so hair is not fully covered and there is often trailing nape hair. Sometimes they wear a 'mini turban' which is like a wig cap plus covered top knot. When they reach maturity/ adulthood they would wear a regular turban, so in the case of this school it would be IF permission is granted to have 'headgear'. I don't see why there is even the option of refusal.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Village_ArshWed_078.JPG


And just to be fair, it's not that many years since we have had issues here in a UK state school.
http://www.sikhnet.com/daily-news/uk-school-reverses-ban-patka

ETA perhaps part of the reason I am so unsympathetic to the ignorance is that both my parents, both my aunts and my only cousin are all qualified teachers (all but one retired, all caucasian). All have worked in multicultural areas/ schools and they had more cultural awareness/ knowledge ten to twenty years ago that some of these educators do today.

[Coolcombination]

In my school we have a uniform and regulation s on hair are, no unnatural colours. No jewellery with the exception of a watch. And no excessive make up. That's it.

[DancingQueen]

I agree with this. And the biggest problem I have with it, is it changes the way I can have my hair OUTSIDE of school/work/wherever we are. If they're telling me I have to have a certain haircut, that's for all aspects of my life, NOT just the 8 hours a day I'm at school. I can't enjoy my hair the way I want to on my own time, because of the permanent limitations that are imposed by the dress code. I can't take a haircut off at the end of the day like I would remove a uniform- a haircut is for the duration. Same with color. I have a BIG problem with this. In fact, I've pretty much decided that I will not cut/color/remove piercings to conform to a job at this point. *chuckles* When I was younger people told me I would eventually see that jobs/etc. were more important, but I've actually found the opposite to be true the older I get. I will not allow anyone to dictate my appearance and my enjoyment of my body on my free time. Where I work (Or go to school) does not get to dictate who I am.

I can't agree with making everyone wear a specific hairstyle only because it might not be a style that's achievable for everyone- the French Twist you mention for instance, is very problematic for me and several other thick-haired people on this forum alone. I don't want to be told that I need to wear a style that I have to use 40 hairpins, heat and gel in order to achieve it, or have to deal with the frustration, embarrassment and hassle of having to go to school/work/wherever in a different style and then explain that my hair just will NOT conform to the required style...with my thickness, for instance, I am at BSL (and I wear my bra strap low!) and am only just now being able to do styles that many people can do at APL....some of them even shoulder!

I was not suggesting the french twist specifically; or any certain hairstyle at all. I am not sure I can make that either. It was just an example. I simply meant it as a way of explaining what most of the world consider 'neat and tidy', as seems to be the schools point of this. Of course you should not have to change your hairstyle for that.

But for clinical practice (studying to become a physiotherapist), it is required that I wear my hair up, and look neat, tidy and groomed. Also for my freetime job, I am required to look neat, tidy and well-groomed, and my hair should never hang in front of my nametag. And it actually says in my contract, that I have to wear a bra, and is not allowed to wear socks in my sandals, lol. :p

Lots of places have dresscodes, and I think that is okay, as long as it does not dictate the body. When I am working, I will conform to meet their standards as good as I can. Pircings, earrings and other jewelry/accesories/makeup can be removed, but hair colour and style is shomething that should not be dictated. I will try to make it look the best, as I like the job, but I would not cut my hair short if they asked me to. (Not that I think they ever will)

[Kaelee]

I was not suggesting the french twist specifically; or any certain hairstyle at all. I am not sure I can make that either. It was just an example. I simply meant it as a way of explaining what most of the world consider 'neat and tidy', as seems to be the schools point of this. Of course you should not have to change your hairstyle for that.

But for clinical practice (studying to become a physiotherapist), it is required that I wear my hair up, and look neat, tidy and groomed. Also for my freetime job, I am required to look neat, tidy and well-groomed, and my hair should never hang in front of my nametag. And it actually says in my contract, that I have to wear a bra, and is not allowed to wear socks in my sandals, lol. :p

I have similar rules for hair, although for me, it's because I run machines...though, you shouldn't have to tell a machinist to put his/her hair back. Knowing what happens if it gets wrapped around a spindle is plenty of incentive to keep it tied back. :p

I wouldn't be caught dead without a bra being a somewhat large breasted girl myself, but I'm offended by the thought of being contractually obligated to wear one. It doesn't make much difference to me, personally (If I were smaller chested and didn't need to wear one normally I would take greater exception) but it smacks too much of being told my body itself is inappropriate unless confined in a certain way.


Lots of places have dresscodes, and I think that is okay, as long as it does not dictate the body. When I am working, I will conform to meet their standards as good as I can. Pircings, earrings and other jewelry/accesories/makeup can be removed, but hair colour and style is shomething that should not be dictated. I will try to make it look the best, as I like the job, but I would not cut my hair short if they asked me to. (Not that I think they ever will)

For me it depends on the piercing- I can't remove my helix piercings because they aren't healed yet...so in a way, that WOULD change the way my body looks outside of work. No new piercings because I can't remove unhealed piercings. There's also a risk of them closing up when being taken out for any length of time.

[DancingQueen]

I have similar rules for hair, although for me, it's because I run machines...though, you shouldn't have to tell a machinist to put his/her hair back. Knowing what happens if it gets wrapped around a spindle is plenty of incentive to keep it tied back. :p

I wouldn't be caught dead without a bra being a somewhat large breasted girl myself, but I'm offended by the thought of being contractually obligated to wear one. It doesn't make much difference to me, personally (If I were smaller chested and didn't need to wear one normally I would take greater exception) but it smacks too much of being told my body itself is inappropriate unless confined in a certain way.



For me it depends on the piercing- I can't remove my helix piercings because they aren't healed yet...so in a way, that WOULD change the way my body looks outside of work. No new piercings because I can't remove unhealed piercings. There's also a risk of them closing up when being taken out for any length of time.

Well, I can see the issue with not being able to get new ones. I don't think they would close if you wore them out 8 hours a day; but then again, I don't have any, so I wouldn't know. :)

Hehe, I don't really have a problem with having to wear a bra (My girls are not very big, but I would never dream of going without a bra - it would feel wired to me, like I am showing too much, even though I am not). I just think it is funny it is in my contract. :p Besides, a bra is just a piece of clothing; you can always remove it after work. :)

[Kyla]

This is obviously racist. Happily though, it appears that they have lifted the ban. http://blackgirllonghair.com/2013/06/ohio-school-bans-afro-puffs-and-braids/

I think most dress codes in general are b.s anyway- I can understand upholding some relative modesty, but honestly I think rules like "no tank tops" are stupid when considering boys are allowed in school with t shirts that say things like "Nice Story Babe, Now Make Me a Sandwich." Shoulder blades are not that distracting, nor are they inappropriate. If you look up dress code experiences from a students perspective online, you can read about girls being told to "cover up for their own good" and "the dress code is to protect themselves from the risk of assault." That's just ridiculous.

[Kaelee]

This is obviously racist. Happily though, it appears that they have lifted the ban. http://blackgirllonghair.com/2013/06/ohio-school-bans-afro-puffs-and-braids/

I think most dress codes in general are b.s anyway- I can understand upholding some relative modesty, but honestly I think rules like "no tank tops" are stupid when considering boys are allowed in school with t shirts that say things like "Nice Story Babe, Now Make Me a Sandwich." Shoulder blades are not that distracting, nor are they inappropriate. If you look up dress code experiences from a students perspective online, you can read about girls being told to "cover up for their own good" and "the dress code is to protect themselves from the risk of assault." That's just ridiculous.

I remember getting picked on for the dress code in school...at times when I wasn't ACTUALLY violating it, but the teacher had no clue what the term "muscle shirt" actually meant, and another time when (apparently) about 1/4" of my midriff was occasionally visible. I looked down and said "no it's not" and I was told "well, YOU couldn't see it from that angle." I think I said something along the lines of "If you'll readily admit that I cannot see the infraction myself, how am I expected to do anything about it?" This was the 90's and buying clothes that actually fit the dress code (and were in budget and not sloppy) was actually kind of difficult. Especially as I was a growing girl and my family couldn't afford to buy new clothes a couple times a year (I was around 13 years old).

[jeanniet]

Here in the UK a Sikh boy would wear a high topknot with a little 'bun cover' or handkerchief, so hair is not fully covered and there is often trailing nape hair. Sometimes they wear a 'mini turban' which is like a wig cap plus covered top knot. When they reach maturity/ adulthood they would wear a regular turban, so in the case of this school it would be IF permission is granted to have 'headgear'. I don't see why there is even the option of refusal.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Village_ArshWed_078.JPG


And just to be fair, it's not that many years since we have had issues here in a UK state school.
http://www.sikhnet.com/daily-news/uk-school-reverses-ban-patka

ETA perhaps part of the reason I am so unsympathetic to the ignorance is that both my parents, both my aunts and my only cousin are all qualified teachers (all but one retired, all caucasian). All have worked in multicultural areas/ schools and they had more cultural awareness/ knowledge ten to twenty years ago that some of these educators do today.

The topknot tends to be neater once they're school age, but I see your point about nape hair (my father was born in India and raised Sikh, so I've seen plenty of turbans and topknots, but it's been some time). I think the biggest problem is that the administration just didn't think things through, which of course is racism in its most subtle form. In a way I think it's the worst kind, because it's the hardest to turn around if people don't think before they act.

[spirals]

I will conform to a dress code within reason. But I will not cut nor straighten my hair. I will wear it up if necessary for safety reasons. And I have to say that all my ponies are puffs; I have big hair. Fortunately my employer doesn't care. The only requirements are:
--plain (no print or slogan) top of a certain color (anything in that color family, really) that covers at least the top of the shoulder
--trouser-type pants of a certain color (again, wide variation in that); really, just no stretch pants. Most anything else is fine, even a skirt if your religion requires it. If it's overnight or when the public is absent, you can wear jeans or whatever pants you want, as long as the shirt identifies you.
--no bare ankles/heels for safety, so if you have on longish crop pants, wear ankle-covering socks
--shoes: whatever you can work in, as long as heels/toes are covered

Of course upper management doesn't indulge in these things, but the rest of us can have multi-colored hair, piercings, tatoos (obscene covered up), whatever jewelry and makeup, hair accessories, any hair style, any hair length, whatever. I do remember a girl with at least classic hair that was asked to wear a ponytail so it didnt get caught in a machine, and she was happy to oblige. And of course if you work directly with food, you must pull your hair back and take off jewelry, but that's standard all over.

[tigereye]

From what I've read, the dress code seems rather military-school-esque. In those schools here, all girls have to wear a low bun, and all guys have to wear their hair above the collar at the back (so really quite short). But even so, whilst Afro-puffs, just like ponytails, can't be worn, there are no rules about the braids, since they can be bunned anyway. And everybody knows that's the dress code before the kids go.
This seems off to me. If they are allowing ponytails, then why not Afro-puffs or braids? The only thing definitive I saw was that hair had to be kept pulled back - to me that would mean ponytails (and therefore Afro-puffs).
Weird.

[Kittney]

I found this disturbingly ignorant, and yes some dress codes are ridiculous. In middle school I was sent home several times for refusing to keep my jacket unzipped. The rules stated that sweat jackets were to be unzipped but overcoats could be zipped. My family didn't have the means for coats, so in essence the rule meant only rich kids can be warm, respected, and comfortable in class.

[Kaelee]

I found this disturbingly ignorant, and yes some dress codes are ridiculous. In middle school I was sent home several times for refusing to keep my jacket unzipped. The rules stated that sweat jackets were to be unzipped but overcoats could be zipped. My family didn't have the means for coats, so in essence the rule meant only rich kids can be warm, respected, and comfortable in class.

That is messed up!!!! My school did not allow zip up sweatshirts to be worn UN zipped. We were not allowed to wear "jackets" in school and if it were UNzipped it was considered a jacket. So it had to be zipped, or off, if I remember correctly.

I really don't understand how that rule even came to be. It makes no sense. There's no logical reason for it. It's almost like the dress codes are INTENDED to be degrading in some cases.

[Lunadriael]

I have never liked, nor understood school uniform. The ones they made us buy never fitted properly and you could still tell if people were badly off due to the quality of the jumpers and stuff they might wear, even if they were all the same style/colour. It doesn't help with studying, and I knew numerous girls in my high school who would routinely skive PE because they HAD to wear shorts and were too embarrassed for the boys to see their legs after the onset of puberty. Not to mention the fact that kids will always push boundaries somewhere with uniform, to try and express themselves. Furthermore, the local Catholic school's rule for girls to wear pleated skirts and ties just seemed like a slightly disturbing male fantasy.

Apart from things that might pose a safety risk, it just seems an authoritarian method of control. Why waste time disciplining minor uniform details? If you keep making petty restrictions of course something discriminatory like this is going to come up. As far as I can tell that list was both racist and sexist. I much prefer education systems that focus on offering children and teachers alike self-respect and responsibility, so that people themselves want to look presentable and work hard because they feel like they are valued as individuals. I really like the sound of the Finnish education system for that reason, although I have never experienced it myself. I feel like a lot of the children in the UK especially aren't very happy at school. When I was teaching in France the lack of a school uniform really didn't have a negative impact at all. Teachers were more focused on behaviour and learning instead, which I thought was the point.

[tigereye]

I have never liked, nor understood school uniform. The ones they made us buy never fitted properly and you could still tell if people were badly off due to the quality of the jumpers and stuff they might wear, even if they were all the same style/colour. It doesn't help with studying, and I knew numerous girls in my high school who would routinely skive PE because they HAD to wear shorts and were too embarrassed for the boys to see their legs after the onset of puberty. Not to mention the fact that kids will always push boundaries somewhere with uniform, to try and express themselves. Furthermore, the local Catholic school's rule for girls to wear pleated skirts and ties just seemed like a slightly disturbing male fantasy.

Apart from things that might pose a safety risk, it just seems an authoritarian method of control. Why waste time disciplining minor uniform details? If you keep making petty restrictions of course something discriminatory like this is going to come up. As far as I can tell that list was both racist and sexist. I much prefer education systems that focus on offering children and teachers alike self-respect and responsibility, so that people themselves want to look presentable and work hard because they feel like they are valued as individuals. I really like the sound of the Finnish education system for that reason, although I have never experienced it myself. I feel like a lot of the children in the UK especially aren't very happy at school. When I was teaching in France the lack of a school uniform really didn't have a negative impact at all. Teachers were more focused on behaviour and learning instead, which I thought was the point.

I don't think I could disagree more. Looking back, I am glad we had uniform in school when I was there, and even said so at the time. Mind you, ours wasnt too strict - we had to wear black trousers or skirts, a white shirt, the school tie and later, a blazer (initially only the seniors/prefects wore them, but there was a lot of problems when they introduced them for all as parents couldn't afford to replace them. I think that rule has slightly gone by the wayside for those that aren't prefects anyway). From my experiences at Uni, when people are more mature as a rule, there was still discrimination based on what people wore, too a much higher degree than in the school which wore uniform.

I never had a problem with the uniform, since it was relatively easy to follow, and you could do as you liked with your hair, accessories etc. as long as jewellery was off for PE and hair tied back for chemistry (safety reasons). If the uniform is reasonable, I don't see a problem with it, especially since I saw the benefit then and now.

[Kaelee]

I don't mind school uniforms so much except that I have seen several cases where uniforms were imposed and parents could not afford to buy them for the kids, which I seem to recall actually making the news here back in the 90's.

[Firefox7275]

I don't mind school uniforms so much except that I have seen several cases where uniforms were imposed and parents could not afford to buy them for the kids, which I seem to recall actually making the news here back in the 90's.

Back in the late eighties I went to a school in East London where the bottle green uniform could not be imposed because it was a very deprived area. Loads of kids still had gadgets and leather jackets and spending money tho, this is the UK I don't think we have the same bottom level of poverty as some other countries other than in homeless/ refugee families. All the school did was switch to black and white on the basis suitable items would already be owned, extra pieces are widely available, wearable outside school if desired and not a colour that would make kids rebel. It worked fine, parents and pupils largely accepted the change.

I do think it was better to have a uniform and I do think it improved attitudes slightly. It is a good life lesson because the vast majority of us have to conform to a certain extent throughout our working lives (blue collar uniforms, office attire, safety equipment) but a dress code does need to consider cultural, gender and financial issues. I just Googled and my old school has got a little stricter, they now have logos which I guess you attach to your own purchases, they don't see to be strict on the style of trousers or sweatshirts. I'm surprised they have slightly different sports kit for boys and girls in this day and age: religious head coverings are listed as expected, it's a heavily Asian area.

[Kaelee]

Back in the late eighties I went to a school in East London where the bottle green uniform could not be imposed because it was a very deprived area. Loads of kids still had gadgets and leather jackets and spending money tho, this is the UK I don't think we have the same bottom level of poverty as some other countries other than in homeless/ refugee families. All the school did was switch to black and white on the basis suitable items would already be owned, extra pieces are widely available, wearable outside school if desired and not a colour that would make kids rebel. It worked fine, parents and pupils largely accepted the change.

I do think it was better to have a uniform and I do think it improved attitudes slightly. It is a good life lesson because the vast majority of us have to conform to a certain extent throughout our working lives (blue collar uniforms, office attire, safety equipment) but a dress code does need to consider cultural, gender and financial issues. I just Googled and my old school has got a little stricter, they now have logos which I guess you attach to your own purchases, they don't see to be strict on the style of trousers or sweatshirts. I'm surprised they have slightly different sports kit for boys and girls in this day and age: religious head coverings are listed as expected, it's a heavily Asian area.

I remember one case where a school in Philadelphia imposed uniforms and they HAD to be Dickies brand pants. Kids were getting sent home or suspended because their pants did not have the Dickies tag on them. :doh:

I work in a place that requires uniforms for the manufacturing plant. I personally love this. It means I don't have to mess up my own clothes with grease and oil and I don't have to do my own laundry (for work at least.)