Some help for a friend please?

[Suze2012]

A friend of mine has BSL hair which is pretty straight but she also does straighten it and only uses product to give it some more shine.

It's in pretty good condition but she is thinking of starting co washing due to having seen the change in y hair..however..I'm a curly and also I don't use heat or much in the way of products..

What would you suggest if she would still like to straighten?
I'm thinking she would need heat protection...but she could maybe co wash during the week and then shampoo to get rid of any build up from the heat protection product weekly or as and when she needs it?
I am also thinking that co washing and less use of sulphates would benefit her hair anyway.

I'm in the UK and have no idea on heat protection products as to whether they contain cones or not but I am guessing they do?

My other thought was whether pure argan oil once dried might be protection enough?

Sorry if these are dumb questions! I have no idea what to do with straightish hair being a curly myself!

I have just transferred a curly friend over to co washing (and she loves it!) but I am a little lost with a straightee!! Help! :)

[lapushka]

CO washing should be no different to a straighty as it is to a curly or wavy girl. It's the scalp that gets cleaned first and foremost, you know. That's the biggest indicator whether or not it's even going to work for her. Let her first try and find out by giving it a week to a few weeks. With a weekly shampoo, I'm guessing the build-up will vanish. Her use of heat will be a bigger issue than CO washing. ;)

[Suze2012]

Thanks, it's just the heat protection I'm concerned about as she wants to be able to straighten too.

I don't straighten nor blow dry at all so have no clue what heat protection is out there or whether just more often with shampoo might help.

My view is her overall hair health will be better if she quite sulphates.no heat would be optimum obviously but she just wants to try co washing. :)

My hair was helped by quitting heat...that was years ago..maybe 2008 I stopped I think.....but the biggest change for me to it's condition was co washing which I only started May 2012.

[HylianGirl]

maybe she could try this heat free straightening method:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1RO-d1Z9Hs

It takes a while to dry or maybe she could use a blow drier on low temp to dry faster

[Suze2012]

Thanks, she isn't looking for an alternative straightening method though. :)

She isn't interested in growing her hair or anything and it's not in a bad state at all...it's very lovely in fact.
She just wants to give co washing a try but we're trying to find something for heat protection without silicones in to avoid build up.

[cranberrymoonz]

I do not recommend using a heat protectant without cones, because they simply don't protect as well. A guideline for avoiding build-up is not to use cones more than once without clarifying in between. Weekly shampooing sounds great, provided that she doesn't use any cones except for the heat protectant and that she doesn't use it more than once (or maybe twice, she'll have to find out) a week. I don't believe argan oil will provide enough protection.

Because straight hair (certainly fine straight hair) shows oiliness faster, it is especially important to use a light conditioner, leave it on a good 5-10 minutes and to rinse very very well.

Good luck!

[HylianGirl]

Natural oils are not good heat protectants, as matter of fact, they can be worse, you see, oil + heat can make your hair literally fry, so it's better to use a coney serum indeed. But coney serum combined with CO washing can cause a lot of build-up. Has she considered CWC?

[Suze2012]

Ah!!! Thanks Cranberry and Hylian! :)

All of that was the kind of info I was after!

I did think maybe oil might lead to frying...but I thought I may as well throw the question out there.

We are at the very beginning of talking about it just now but she is keen to try and is aware that it's going to be trial and error.
She also has two mixed race daughters and another relative with wavy hair who are interested...lots of different hair types!

My friend barely uses any product on her hair and doesn't always straighten so I think a once per week clarify might be OK for her.

CWC...is this where you put conditioner all through, then shampoo with sulphates and then co wash it in one sitting?

[purplebubba]

I'm out of practise with my advice but perhaps some aloe gel to smooth it might help? Its dries fast and can be re-applied more than once. You can then rinse it with just water. Doesn't leave gunk in the hair like other gels. Just be sure to get the clear gel that says 100% pure.

[browneyedsusan]

I CWC (condition, wash with shampoo, condition: just like you used to do, except condition one extra time before you shampoo) with cheap Suave. It works great for me, but I do have to clarify now and then. That's all I do, besides a monthly henna root touch-up, and avoiding the heat tools. (I think a person's water influences how hair behaves. --At my sister's house, my hair is SO soft and shiny. At home, it's "grippier" in the shower, but dries very slippery.) Sister is a curly, and CO's with excellent results. I tried it and turned into an oil slick, so just stick with CWC. You're sweet to help your friend. What a good friend you are! :)

[Firefox7275]

Silicones are king for heat protection and most heat protection products are heavy on them, she should be using plenty of it to get the protective effect. IMO there would be a high risk of build up with less frequent shampooing, she'd be safest switching to a sulphate free shampoo at a pH around 4.5 to 5.5 to encourage the cuticle to remain flat. The more build up she has the less benefit she will gain from other beneficial ingredients in her conditioners. Agree that the risk of damage from flat ironing with or without a silicone based heat protectant far outweighs the risk from a gentle shampoo, but alternatives if she is determined to take the risk
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/12/thermal-protection-do-they-really-work.html

TBH if you've not seen her hair free of silicones it may not be in such great condition. Oil won't fry hair unless you are using stupid temperatures with the flat iron, and they can help protect from water loss.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/05/straightening-factshow-hot-is-too-hot.html
http://blackgirllonghair.com/2012/03/how-to-find-a-good-heat-protectant/

Cocoamidopropyl betaine shampoos will remove silicones, she could even do oil shampoos (Movie Star Method) to gain benefit from the shampooing stage, coconut oil protects against protein loss during washing, combing, from UV light, bleaching and interestingly from boilling water.
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf
This should be a good base for an oil shampoo, it definitely removes silicones
http://www.naturallythinking.com/products/Shampoo-SLS-free-Extra-Mild.html

[Suze2012]

I'm out of practise with my advice but perhaps some aloe gel to smooth it might help? Its dries fast and can be re-applied more than once. You can then rinse it with just water. Doesn't leave gunk in the hair like other gels. Just be sure to get the clear gel that says 100% pure.

Thanks. :)
Aloe or glycerin is something I was going to mention later on when the weather gets cooler. With it being a humectant it's not the best for the UK summertime as it disagrees with our dew points.

I love glycerin in the winter..it works wonders for my hair for shine and smoothness but I avoid it like the plague in the summer as it pulls too much moisture in.

[Suze2012]

I CWC (condition, wash with shampoo, condition: just like you used to do, except condition one extra time before you shampoo) with cheap Suave. It works great for me, but I do have to clarify now and then. That's all I do, besides a monthly henna root touch-up, and avoiding the heat tools. (I think a person's water influences how hair behaves. --At my sister's house, my hair is SO soft and shiny. At home, it's "grippier" in the shower, but dries very slippery.) Sister is a curly, and CO's with excellent results. I tried it and turned into an oil slick, so just stick with CWC. You're sweet to help your friend. What a good friend you are! :)

Thanks for that! :)
So helpful! Plus saves me time looking it up!
A few.quick questions...
For the first condition do you just put the suave all the way through or do you do the scrubbing action on the scalp same as with co washing?
For the shampoo part do you go for a nicer brand of shampoo or just a suave type brand?
Then for teh last condition..from what you have said I am thinking from what you have posted that you just put the conditioner through, leave it a while and rinse...do you use the suave again or a nicer richer type conditioner?

[Suze2012]

Silicones are king for heat protection and most heat protection products are heavy on them, she should be using plenty of it to get the protective effect. IMO there would be a high risk of build up with less frequent shampooing, she'd be safest switching to a sulphate free shampoo at a pH around 4.5 to 5.5 to encourage the cuticle to remain flat. The more build up she has the less benefit she will gain from other beneficial ingredients in her conditioners. Agree that the risk of damage from flat ironing with or without a silicone based heat protectant far outweighs the risk from a gentle shampoo, but alternatives if she is determined to take the risk
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/12/thermal-protection-do-they-really-work.html

TBH if you've not seen her hair free of silicones it may not be in such great condition. Oil won't fry hair unless you are using stupid temperatures with the flat iron, and they can help protect from water loss.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/05/straightening-factshow-hot-is-too-hot.html
http://blackgirllonghair.com/2012/03/how-to-find-a-good-heat-protectant/

Cocoamidopropyl betaine shampoos will remove silicones, she could even do oil shampoos (Movie Star Method) to gain benefit from the shampooing stage, coconut oil protects against protein loss during washing, combing, from UV light, bleaching and interestingly from boilling water.
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf
This should be a good base for an oil shampoo, it definitely removes silicones
http://www.naturallythinking.com/products/Shampoo-SLS-free-Extra-Mild.html

Thanks :)

I saw a few you tube videos yesterday where some would oil their hair prior to using shampoo but I didn't know why and it wasn't explained....you have just explained it! :)

These are all great ideas...and thanks for the links too.

I will hopefully be finding out how a first trial run went today as my friend got so excited that she sent her daughter out shopping.
I admit, the first time i ever tried co washing I just tried it with a coney conditiner...but even the result of that one co wash convinced me this was what my hair liked....then I had my few months of experiments to get it right for me.



All these helpful posts have given me a few different options to guide these ladies.which is great. I pretty much know how to begin with curly hair being a curly but with straight, relaxed and afro coming into the mix I have realised just how much I don't know! Lol!

Thanks for all the help so far...no doubt I will be back for more....

[browneyedsusan]

Thanks for that! :)
So helpful! Plus saves me time looking it up!
A few.quick questions...
For the first condition do you just put the suave all the way through or do you do the scrubbing action on the scalp same as with co washing?
For the shampoo part do you go for a nicer brand of shampoo or just a suave type brand?
Then for teh last condition..from what you have said I am thinking from what you have posted that you just put the conditioner through, leave it a while and rinse...do you use the suave again or a nicer richer type conditioner?

Cheap Suave for all of it! (I tried the nicer stuff, but it didn't make any difference.) I CWC like you describe: scrub in, rinse out for every step. Leave the last condition in longer. (I scrub in for every step from habit: I started with a pixie and couldn't do my length below my ears because there wasn't any! "Friend" could probably just coat her ends with the first condition.) IMHO; "Friend" should just change one thing per month in her hair routine. That way she can tell what works and what doesn't. My hair doesn't need much, but it's still short. When it gets longer, I may have to change things up. There isn't a "best" method for us straighteys. Our hair and body chemistries are all different--you can tell from looking through the forums for about 10 seconds! Some people like cones, some don't. Some oil, some don't. Some use heat with no problem, some get splits if they even think about plugging in the flatiron! What works for me might not work for "Friend", but if she's willing to muscle through a little trial-and-error, she can improve her hair. FWIW, the biggest difference for me was quitting the heat. My ends have stayed just as nice as when I was getting a haircut every 6 weeks!

[Firefox7275]

Thanks. :)
Aloe or glycerin is something I was going to mention later on when the weather gets cooler. With it being a humectant it's not the best for the UK summertime as it disagrees with our dew points.

I love glycerin in the winter..it works wonders for my hair for shine and smoothness but I avoid it like the plague in the summer as it pulls too much moisture in.

Water based is not a good idea, Google 'bubble hair'. Plus humectants have a natural tackiness, you want slick glide/ no friction with flat irons. And I have a feeling some nasty chemical transformation occurs to glycerin at high cooking temperatures.

[Suze2012]

Cheap Suave for all of it! (I tried the nicer stuff, but it didn't make any difference.) I CWC like you describe: scrub in, rinse out for every step. Leave the last condition in longer. (I scrub in for every step from habit: I started with a pixie and couldn't do my length below my ears because there wasn't any! "Friend" could probably just coat her ends with the first condition.) IMHO; "Friend" should just change one thing per month in her hair routine. That way she can tell what works and what doesn't. My hair doesn't need much, but it's still short. When it gets longer, I may have to change things up. There isn't a "best" method for us straighteys. Our hair and body chemistries are all different--you can tell from looking through the forums for about 10 seconds! Some people like cones, some don't. Some oil, some don't. Some use heat with no problem, some get splits if they even think about plugging in the flatiron! What works for me might not work for "Friend", but if she's willing to muscle through a little trial-and-error, she can improve her hair. FWIW, the biggest difference for me was quitting the heat. My ends have stayed just as nice as when I was getting a haircut every 6 weeks!


Her name is Jane. :)
Well she has been and got all the essentials and I described the CWC method to her.just as you described so she knows now that if she uses heat protectant or silicone of any kind then she needs to CWC and otherwise she can just co wash.
She won't even be straightening for about 10 days and doesn't use any product when she doesn't straighten so she will just be co washing for a while. She is doing her clarify today.
Her daughter clarified last night so I'll find out later today how they both got on and whether they had any problems.

I've told them not to throw away their coney products that they have and they know this might not suit them..and the great thing...they understand all the reasons why they're doing the different steps.

Bless them! They were too excited about trying this to wait!

Thanks so much for the CWC advice...you got there just at the right time with that - I was a bit stumped and just couldn't think how to work around it! :)

[Suze2012]

Water based is not a good idea, Google 'bubble hair'. Plus humectants have a natural tackiness, you want slick glide/ no friction with flat irons. And I have a feeling some nasty chemical transformation occurs to glycerin at high cooking temperatures.


Ah!!! Thanks for that!
I've made a note of it!
I never use any heat so wasn't aware of this.
Thanks! :)

[akilina]

I see no issue with using lots of cones. I'm noticing everyone is kind of anti cone here....
No cone simply does not work for everyone,
And seriously???.........don't use cones more than once without clarifying in between? I know all hair is different but that is incredibly extreme!!
That much clarifying could be more disasterous than straightening. I can go 3 months using cones every day without clarifying no problems. Like I said everyone is different though. I can't imagine clarifying several times a week...ugh. Maybe I read that wrong but it seems very OCD to clarify after one use every time.

I think she should try what she wants and see what works best. No harm in trying out co washing. If it doesn't work for her then it didn't work and that is that. Maybe she'll end up like me having 6 different kinds of shampoos and conditioners in the shower.
She should definitely use a heat protectant though. That is also just about finding what works best for her..im not sure what is available for her over there. i would advise against using any natural oils at all in their natural forms before using heat. Think of frying pan and oil....

[jacqueline101]

Using cones isn't bad just don't go over board. Clarifying that often isn't good. I would do cones as needed use minimal amounts to get the job done. Co I don't know much about.

[Firefox7275]

I see no issue with using lots of cones. I'm noticing everyone is kind of anti cone here....
No cone simply does not work for everyone,
And seriously???.........don't use cones more than once without clarifying in between? I know all hair is different but that is incredibly extreme!!
That much clarifying could be more disasterous than straightening. I can go 3 months using cones every day without clarifying no problems. Like I said everyone is different though. I can't imagine clarifying several times a week...ugh. Maybe I read that wrong but it seems very OCD to clarify after one use every time.

I think she should try what she wants and see what works best. No harm in trying out co washing. If it doesn't work for her then it didn't work and that is that. Maybe she'll end up like me having 6 different kinds of shampoos and conditioners in the shower.
She should definitely use a heat protectant though. That is also just about finding what works best for her..im not sure what is available for her over there. i would advise against using any natural oils at all in their natural forms before using heat. Think of frying pan and oil....

You didn't notice anything of the sort, I avoid silicones like the plague myself yet described them as "king for heat protection" in this thread! Shampooing doesn't necessarily mean stripping the hair with a dedicated clarifying product, there are many gentler shampoos that will remove the excess (build up) without removing every scrap of silicone and conditioning agents leaving the hair straw like. A shampoo based on cocoamidopropyl betaine at pH 4.5 to 5.5 will have a completely different effect on the health of the scalp and hair to a sodium lauryl sulphate rich one at pH 7 but both can remove silicones.

Much as I loathe sulphates I'm not aware of ANY shampoo that can do as much damage as just one session with the flat iron, either too hot or on even slightly damp hair or too frequently or without adequate protection. There are plenty of published studies or microscopy images on the damage heat styling does at different temperatures, the effects different surfactants have on hair and comparing the properties of different oils if you are inclined to research this for yourself.

Heat protection products generally include silicones which are very prone to building up and one should use plenty of them, if you already have any damage from heat styling, colour treating or plain weathering they can build up still further. It's not the same as just using silicones in a rinse out daily conditioner, or just using water soluble or silicones which do not tend to build up like amodimethicone. Silicones are not a homogenous family with homogenous properties and amount used is highly relevant.

[Khiwanean]

I see no issue with using lots of cones. I'm noticing everyone is kind of anti cone here....
No cone simply does not work for everyone,
And seriously???.........don't use cones more than once without clarifying in between? I know all hair is different but that is incredibly extreme!! That much clarifying could be more disasterous than straightening. I can go 3 months using cones every day without clarifying no problems. Like I said everyone is different though. I can't imagine clarifying several times a week...ugh. Maybe I read that wrong but it seems very OCD to clarify after one use every time.

I think she should try what she wants and see what works best. No harm in trying out co washing. If it doesn't work for her then it didn't work and that is that. Maybe she'll end up like me having 6 different kinds of shampoos and conditioners in the shower.
She should definitely use a heat protectant though. That is also just about finding what works best for her..im not sure what is available for her over there. i would advise against using any natural oils at all in their natural forms before using heat. Think of frying pan and oil....

I must concur with the bolded, even being cone-free myself. I rarely clarified back when I used cones and didn't suffer any ill from it. There are people in the CO thread who CO with coney conditioners. They tend towards conditioners with bis-aminopropyl dimethicone and amodimethicone, which are designed not to build up too much. Clarifying is something important to consider, but lets not go overboard. There are some people whose hair is sensitive to 'cones and/or buildup, but the vast majority of people don't have hair that is that sensitive to buildup. Clarifying too frequently is certainly more damaging than a little buildup.

[akilina]

I guess I seem to automatically think of harshness when I hear the word 'clarifying'. I also think of how terrible my hair feels in the whole clarifying process. No matter what product I use to clarify it feels so drying and like my hair is instantly damaged feeling and rough.

[Suze2012]

Thanks for all the replies.

I must admit I avoid silicones just because a real 'clarify' mkes my hair feel awful and my hair does suffer coney build up - I only know s I used to use a clarifying shampoo every now and then when I used to consistently use cones.

My friend has a gentle shampoo for whenever she uses cones but she only actually straightens and uses cones once every couple of weeks.

She is getting on well so far and is shocked and pleased to find curls and waves are forming. :0)

She is having a problem with it looking a little dull - but mine was when I started co washing too and mine took some time to eat up the moisture - once the moisture got in there it began to shine.

She is suffering with an itchy scalp though so I'm going to try and search for solutions to that. I'm thinking apple cider vinegar after a co wash diluted...not sure if I am right on that so have some searching to do.
I'm also thinking it could help with shine too..but again.not totally sure if I am correct on that score..