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alinakathryn
August 29th, 2008, 06:35 PM
I have damage from a perm, where I mistakenly thought I had to cut it off. So gone 4-5 inches. I also have damage from higlights, flat iron and blowfryer.

I've stopped using the fryer and the iron. I've done a lot of reading but still have some questions and general uncertainties.

I clarified with Swave clarifying shampoo. Then started Coing with Vo5. I did a protein treatment and a SMT just cause I couldn't figure out which one my hair needed. I do see improvement in my damaged hair. I do not have a leave in that I use currently. I was thinking of oiling, for now with olive oil since its what I have.

How do I figure out which my hair needs protein or moisture? I think it needs moisture since it feels better today than the day after I did the protein. I read Kirin's diagnostic tips and still couldn't figure it out.

How often can you use the SMT? What are the signs of too much moisture to look for?

I read somewhere online that a BBB and damage do not really mix.

granitbaby
August 29th, 2008, 07:18 PM
The easiest way to know what our hair need is to try how different things wok out. In my case it means lots of moisture and less protein.

The signs of to much conditioning treatments for me is that hair feels greasy but looks pretty clean. I don't think too much moisture can damage hair.

Kirin
August 29th, 2008, 07:26 PM
The way to figure out protein vs moisture is generally with these circumstances. Dry, saharah like hair that tangles mostly all over and feels lifeless and lacks shine likely needs moisture. I usually always go for moisture first if I am in doubt, because protein can be DRYING. Too much protein on hair that doesnt need (or want) it can take a while to fix with super moisture treatments, and tons of them.

If your hair needs protein, its likely very fragile, will break off halfway up the hair, feel "stretchy"..... you can pull a strand, it feels like its stretching out before it fragilely snaps. Some have noticed in damaged hair that needs protein a "gummy" feel to the ends, from the end of the hair shafts to about three inches up the line. The ends tangle but not like with dry hair, they feel pasty and "mushy".

Hope that helps.

alinakathryn
August 29th, 2008, 11:11 PM
Thank you ladies, that helps tons. I'm pretty sure my hair wants moisture now. Is dry, and lifeless and has no shine.

How often would you suggest a SMT?

Is a Boar bristle brush damaging for hair that needs moisture? I do understand not to brush wet now. Would light oiling, after a SMT, then brushing to distribute with a BBB be helpful?

Off to read the oiling article again.

toodramatik
August 29th, 2008, 11:57 PM
I don't see how hair could have too much moisture.

You can do an SMT as often as you want. some people use it to CO.

GlassEyes
August 30th, 2008, 07:03 AM
I don't see how hair could have too much moisture.

You can do an SMT as often as you want. some people use it to CO.
Believe me, it happens. The hair becomes too moisturized and stretches into oblivion. >.<

Katze
August 30th, 2008, 09:53 AM
Thank you ladies, that helps tons. I'm pretty sure my hair wants moisture now. Is dry, and lifeless and has no shine.

How often would you suggest a SMT?

Is a Boar bristle brush damaging for hair that needs moisture? I do understand not to brush wet now. Would light oiling, after a SMT, then brushing to distribute with a BBB be helpful?

Off to read the oiling article again.

I have a similar hairtype as yours, and mine was (and is still) damaged from heat and dye. When I first came here, I did an SMT with every wash (I was washing every 4-5 days) and it really helped.

Oiling is tough with fine hair. Even though I've been here for over two years, I still have trouble and regularly over-oil my hair. The tip to just use enough to make your palms shine is a good one. Anything else weighs my hair down and makes it hang like "bacon strips."

Misting works MUCh better for my fine, wavy hair!

I would leave out brushing because your hair is fragile and fine. Many people here like brushing, but when my hair was still mostly damaged (as opposed to mostly virgin with damaged ends) brushing, even with a BBB, wasn't good. The BBB seemed to spread oil/sebum far too much and weigh my hair down, making it look greasy. I do brush now but only before washing or before an updo on "dirty hair" days.

The other thing is that you seem to be trying a lot at the same time. I'd recommend sticking with just one thing at a time. Figuring out whether your hair needs moisture or needs protein is less important than gentle treatment and washing that works well for your hair hair and scalp.

hope this makes sense, and welcome here!

Katze

lind01
August 30th, 2008, 09:57 AM
This is timely... there is an article on here called "Krin's Diagnostic Hair Tips"... or something to that nature... in the article section. It helped me out.
It says that if your hair has a transparent nature, it needs protein. I am always saying my hair looks transparent. It helps you to see what your hair might need, which I really needed because I am new to this and have no clue!

alinakathryn
September 2nd, 2008, 05:39 AM
Ugh, I just took some pictures of my hair. The worst part is that these pictures are the best my hair has looked in a really long time, months maybe a year. I'm embarrassed to let anyone here see them. I'm going to let you see them anyway though.

I've only been COing for about a week, not long at all. The pictures are the day after a SMT. *sigh*
a close up
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2821235756_bffdefc2bd.jpg

Back view
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2820375835_aba91cfbc3_b.jpg

More close ups of the ends
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/2820376221_4b4bdc7d3a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2820376331_1b9d7b3ab4.jpg

So, Any suggestions? I know I need to be patient. Being patient is probably the most important part. Its also the hardest part for me.

Thanks
Sarah

sipnsun
September 2nd, 2008, 09:22 AM
I would continue with the moisture treatments. I did the same thing as you, permed and bleached my hair, but then I straightened it also. At first I loaded up on protein to help make it stronger and prevent breakage, but when my hair got crunchy after a treatment, I figured it was time to concentrate on moisture treatments. I oil everyday with coconut oil, and do a deep conditioning treatment once weekly.

You might also want to invest in a good leave-in conditioner. That has made a big difference with my ends. I mist the lower portion of my hair a couple of times a day if wearing it down. Some people just dillute their regular conditioner with distilled water for this, but I use Biolage conditioning Balm and I find it too heavy.

There is so much wonderful info here and lots of things to try. Good luck!

Denebi
September 2nd, 2008, 12:47 PM
I have some ends suffering from a perm, and at the moment I love to use cocaloe (coconut oil + aloe vera) or pure coconut oil on them. It makes them oily, of course, but it helps them keeping the moisture in. I hope to prevent further breakage with this treatment. It already looks promising...

Maybe that is also helpful for your ends.

Nes
September 2nd, 2008, 08:01 PM
Looking at the pics, I would say that your hair needs moisture.

My ends are similar in appearance to yours. I have been doing a deep oiling once a week with extra virgin olive oil and it has really helped. (dampen hair, apply 1 tablespoon olive oil, cover in cling film and a towel and leave for 1-12 hours, the longer the better)

On the plus side, your hair looks lovely and thick.

Nes x

alinakathryn
September 3rd, 2008, 05:04 AM
Looking at the pics, I would say that your hair needs moisture.

My ends are similar in appearance to yours. I have been doing a deep oiling once a week with extra virgin olive oil and it has really helped. (dampen hair, apply 1 tablespoon olive oil, cover in cling film and a towel and leave for 1-12 hours, the longer the better)

On the plus side, your hair looks lovely and thick.

Nes x

Thanks Nes, I was wondering how to keep the oil off of everything.

alinakathryn
September 3rd, 2008, 05:17 AM
The way to figure out protein vs moisture is generally with these circumstances. Dry, saharah like hair that tangles mostly all over and feels lifeless and lacks shine likely needs moisture. I usually always go for moisture first if I am in doubt, because protein can be DRYING. Too much protein on hair that doesnt need (or want) it can take a while to fix with super moisture treatments, and tons of them.

If your hair needs protein, its likely very fragile, will break off halfway up the hair, feel "stretchy"..... you can pull a strand, it feels like its stretching out before it fragilely snaps. Some have noticed in damaged hair that needs protein a "gummy" feel to the ends, from the end of the hair shafts to about three inches up the line. The ends tangle but not like with dry hair, they feel pasty and "mushy".

Hope that helps.

Kirin,

Could it be possible that it needs both? tested a hair from my Brush. It felt like it streched a split second before it snapped. It seemed to snap really really easy. I'm beginning to think I need protein, because of how fragile it is. I'm going to search the threads for a good protein treatment.

Thank you

alinakathryn
September 3rd, 2008, 05:24 AM
Oh and I forgot to say, yes its very thick. I let my stylist thin it at my last visit. I wont' be doing that any more. It was pre-LHC.

Arctic
September 3rd, 2008, 05:31 AM
Kirin,

Could it be possible that it needs both? tested a hair from my Brush. It felt like it streched a split second before it snapped. It seemed to snap really really easy. I'm beginning to think I need protein, because of how fragile it is. I'm going to search the threads for a good protein treatment.

Thank you

I'm not Kirin, but from your hair test sounds like you would need moisture, not protein. Most people need more moisture, and it's also more difficult to over moisturize (and easier to correct if that does happend).

If one uses a protein treatment, one is advised ALWAYS follow with moisture treatment, so in that sense yes it's possible to need both.

Try moisture first and see what that does :flower:

plainjanegirl
October 6th, 2008, 05:00 PM
I would continue with the moisture treatments. I did the same thing as you, permed and bleached my hair, but then I straightened it also. At first I loaded up on protein to help make it stronger and prevent breakage, but when my hair got crunchy after a treatment, I figured it was time to concentrate on moisture treatments. I oil everyday with coconut oil, and do a deep conditioning treatment once weekly.

You might also want to invest in a good leave-in conditioner. That has made a big difference with my ends. I mist the lower portion of my hair a couple of times a day if wearing it down. Some people just dillute their regular conditioner with distilled water for this, but I use Biolage conditioning Balm and I find it too heavy.

There is so much wonderful info here and lots of things to try. Good luck!


What kind of protein treatments did you use?
You say you do a deep condition weekly....is that the Biolage balm??

xrosiex
October 6th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I've had really good luck with Foxs Shea Butter on my ends. Also Camellia oil.:)

Katze
October 7th, 2008, 03:00 AM
Your hair really doesn't look bad in those pics! I see shine and relatively healthy, thick hair, but I also see waves starting to come out below chin length...could that be what's bothering you?

At your length my hair flipped out and did the dreaded "first lady flip" thing. It is an awkward length for many people. However, as your wave develops, I think it will look lovely because your hair is so thick and has an even hemline. You may just have to deal with it being awkward for a while.

Misting would be a good way to add moisture to your hair, but I also think it's a bit hard at your length. Perhaps just an extra bit of a light leave-in conditioner on the ends? Goth Rosary's conditioners work really well for me, and I use the unscented daily as a leave-in, also on BF's thicker, wavier hair.

Finally don't get discouraged! Your hair is thick and wavy naturally which is a really nice thing...you just have to get used to dealing with it being fine and needing more moisture.

good luck!

alinakathryn
October 7th, 2008, 07:04 AM
After a month of COing it looks much better. I've started using some curly girl methods. That has helped the look. Also I haven't been fighting the leftover perm. It looks much better now. See my other thread here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=13084) where the pictures are after 1 month of changing the routine.

Misting with just water? Or misting with a mix of something? I've heard about people misting but not sure what to use. So Is there a thread or article about misting? If so can some one point me in that direction?

Anje
October 7th, 2008, 08:01 AM
Your hair doesn't look bad, but the ends are a bit dry. You can do SMTs as often as you want, unless your hair starts to get gummy/stretchy from them.

Because you have some perm left in your hair, and because you highlight, I would suggest that you continue the occasional protein treatment, followed by moisture right away. Your hair will be stronger and less prone to breakage from the chemicals, which definitely can deplete the protein in your hair. If the day comes when your hair feels weird and stiff after a protein treatment, you'll know to back off from them, and a bit of moisture will help it recover.

As far as misting goes, some people like it more than others. You can mist with just water (many people recommend distilled, if you have it around), or throw in a few essential oils, a dab of conditioner, or a small quantity of a light liquid oil (no coconut if you like your mister bottle). Shake it up and spray on the ends. This has the bonus of very lightly distributing oil, which might work better during the day than dabbing it on with your fingers.