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View Full Version : I am at my wits with my hair



demonicblackcat
June 5th, 2013, 07:58 AM
My hair is thick, frizzy in the front (especially the fringe, which stresses the hell out of me), and I've tried everything. Seriously. Oil Shampoo, SMT, Coconut oil, olive oil, even Cowash (which only makes me lose a lot of hair). The dryness of it doesn't change. My new growth is still extra frizzy and extra dry, and any attempt to straighten it will be lost with one hour outside the house, because the climate in my area is pretty humid.


Now, the strange thing is, the inside of my hair is very straight. Super straight. But the front and the outer part of it is totally frizzy. This is so frustrating.

I'm tired of feeling sick of my hair, of having to deal with this poofiness, and having to permanently straighten it because I can never feel comfortable with my hair. Any of you guys have solutions for the extra thick, extra poofy, extra dry hair with coarse texture?

lapushka
June 5th, 2013, 08:02 AM
You might want to consider having us type your hair. This way you can get the best advice on your hair. What frizz is, depends on the person. Do you have wavy, curly hair? We don't know. It would be nice to know that. To type your hair, wash it regularly, condition or don't and let it airdry without combing or touching it.

Sunshineliz
June 5th, 2013, 08:06 AM
Agreed. And you may have more than one type of hair on your head. Good to find out by doing a proper hairtyping. If you take pics of it, we can help.

HintOfMint
June 5th, 2013, 08:56 AM
I have a similar hairtype to you, really coarse and wavy-near-curly canopy, particularly towards the front, and really straight and smooth underneath. I agree, with the others, do a hairtyping. However, to fix your issue, I've found that damp bunning with a bit of product has been the best thing for me though. It makes my hair a bit more uniform and it really smooths out a lot of waves and frizz I would have had otherwise. Another thing to do, in lieu of damp bunning, is to do twists throughout your hair when it's freshly washed and let it airdry with as little manipulation as possible. Maybe use your hand to lift at the roots a little, but that's it. Again, it smooths out the frizz, makes hair a bit more uniform, and gives your hair a nice pattern to dry into.

I'm all for embracing your natural hairtype, but that advice is really lost on people who have radically different hairtypes on the same head of hair.

goldloli
June 5th, 2013, 08:57 AM
3rding the hairtyping, you may have a wavy canopy that needs different product applied to it to make it settle, who knows?

also just curious and off topic, is there anyone with non tight curls that has co-washed for a long time and still has thick hair? *goes to find cowash thread* *edit* nevermind i found some type 2's that faired well, how do they do it, some kind of witchcraft! :D

good luck op, also try humectants or anti humectants (depending on climate) applied to those areas only, you may find it settles down frizz and helps you keep style for longer. i also have similar mixed hair going on and love using the twisting method that was suggested above.

Theobroma
June 5th, 2013, 09:08 AM
To the OP: I had problems with an extra-frizzy canopy too, and what you're describing sounds similar. Mine improved from totally eliminating exposure to artificial heat. I think that what I had was blowdrying damage -- not from having the blowdrier on an insanely hot setting, but from the way I was using the drier that meant my canopy took the brunt of the heat and the wind. Extra oiling and no heat at all helped the problem and my canopy grew out as soft as the rest of my hair (though the ends are still more wiry and tangly and split-prone and will probably remain so until the heat-exposed portions are trimmed off).

Goldloli: I lost about 40% of my thickness to CO-washing. It crept up on me; initially I didn't see any excessive shedding, but it increased by tiny increments until I was losing wads in every wash. (I stopped a year and a half ago; my hair is now a good 20cm longer but the amount coming out per wash is less than 30% of my CO-wash sheds.) Not worth it; I'd rather have less happy hair attached to my scalp than happy curls vanishing down the drain!

To the OP again: as an alternative to CO, perhaps you could investigate shampoo bars or even plain old soap. (Absolutely don't neglect a dilute vinegar or citric acid rinse afterwards; check out the shampoo bar thread for advice!) I use the same soap on my hair that I use on the rest of me and my hair is just as soft as with CO and stays on my head.

HintOfMint
June 5th, 2013, 09:14 AM
Goldloli: CO-wash caused me to shed massive clumps of hair. I fortunately caught it before it affected my thickness, but holy crap was that scary at the time.

And yes, also cut out all heat styling. I realize there's an article floating about somewhere that Luxepiggy posted about the threshhold of heat styling (higher than a certain temperature is when damage starts to be done) but most blowdriers and flat irons are by default hotter than those temperatures and need it to get the level of styling with the efficiency you've come to expect. So going cold turkey and keeping an eye out for damage you've already incurred would be your best bet. Chances are, if there's a good amount of damage from heatstyling, it won't get better until it's grown out and you've cut it off.

goldloli
June 5th, 2013, 09:20 AM
that's crazy how it just turned on you like that! I see countless posts on all hair forums about cowash shedding, i don't know why it does that or how some people escape the wrath. I had to alter my post because i just saw some pretty thick hair that has been cowashed, but i've still never seen a year or so before and after pic displaying thickness change. The ones i do see are misleading because obviously the curls are bouncier and bigger so u cant tell if they've lost hair, cowashing should come with a warning label.

Is it common place to cowash length only and shampoo roots only? it might be a hassle to keep shampoo off the lengths but it seems like best of both worlds. kinda like cwc, except its co length, wash scalp only, co all.

also hintofmint mine did that too! just straight off the bat, it was loose hair all over my shoulders and legs when i got out of the water.

re heat styling: this is a nice article http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/trends/is-low-heat-styling-less-damaging basically you wanna keep it below boiling temp or not much over, if you do go higher there are different barriers at which diffent damage occurs. Most irons dont go that low, but the $50 one from sephora (own brand) does. If you low heat blowdry followed by that, it gives a very straight effect that is bouncy with way less damage and more shine, i actually hate the look of high heat styling now compared.

this a study luxepiggy cited in that lost thread about how blowdrying cool can actually be less damaging than airdrying http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3229938/

HintOfMint
June 5th, 2013, 09:37 AM
that's crazy how it just turned on you like that! I see countless posts on all hair forums about cowash shedding, i don't know why it does that or how some people escape the wrath. I had to alter my post because i just saw some pretty thick hair that has been cowashed, but i've still never seen a year or so before and after pic displaying thickness change. The ones i do see are misleading because obviously the curls are bouncier and bigger so u cant tell if they've lost hair, cowashing should come with a warning label.

Is it common place to cowash length only and shampoo roots only? it might be a hassle to keep shampoo off the lengths but it seems like best of both worlds. kinda like cwc, except its co length, wash scalp only, co all.

also hintofmint mine did that too! just straight off the bat, it was loose hair all over my shoulders and legs when i got out of the water.

re heat styling: this is a nice article http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/trends/is-low-heat-styling-less-damaging basically you wanna keep it below boiling temp or not much over, if you do go higher there are different barriers at which diffent damage occurs. Most irons dont go that low, but the $50 one from sephora (own brand) does. If you low heat blowdry followed by that, it gives a very straight effect that is bouncy with way less damage and more shine, i actually hate the look of high heat styling now compared.

this a study luxepiggy cited in that lost thread about how blowdrying cool can actually be less damaging than airdrying http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3229938/

I used to do the washing that you cited, CWC without the last C really. It was fine for a while, but the mix of conditioner and shampoo caused a very particular kind of buildup that really messed with my hair. I couldn't figure out why my ends were so crispy when I didn't do ANYTHING to them (I did everything to fix it), but luxepiggy showed me another article about how essentially mixing the two caused a buildup that caused the scales of the hair to lift and have buildup stuck underneath it. My hair has since been a lot better just shampooing and conditioning the old fashioned way.

and high-five for finding those articles!

demonicblackcat
June 5th, 2013, 09:51 AM
Stupid me put the phrase wrongly. So sorry for my bad english and my bad attempt at using an english phrase. I'm not a native speaker...

demonicblackcat
June 5th, 2013, 09:53 AM
Okay, I'll try to put pics on for my hair type. :) I'm sitting now with olive oil all around my hair, and when it air dries, I'll take picture of it. The thing is, I have two types of hair. One is slick straight, the other one is wavy and frizzy. Not the nice wave, not curly, but just frizzy.

And yes, cowash is crazy. Before, my hair was a shape of triangle, and it just changed into very thin at the ends. It made me lost a lot of hair, although it does make it more moisturized. Still, I love the thickness of my hair and won't trade it.

lunalocks
June 5th, 2013, 10:03 AM
Catnip soaks after washing are helping my hair to be more manageable. i also have straight hairs and wavy hairs and a bit of frizz from all the new hairs growing back in. I have used catnip tea as conditioner and leave in for about a month now and am very happy.

jeanniet
June 5th, 2013, 11:48 AM
Hair typing will definitely give you something to go on, but I also think that part of the frizz problem is damage from straightening. It sounds like you straighten often, which means that your hair is probably quite damaged (dry, breaking) from it. This is going to put you in a vicious cycle of dry, frizzy hair that you straighten more, leading to more dry, frizzy hair, etc. If there is a lot of damage, there are things you can do to improve the appearance of your hair, but you'll have to grow the damage out.

jeanniet
June 5th, 2013, 11:56 AM
3rding the hairtyping, you may have a wavy canopy that needs different product applied to it to make it settle, who knows?

also just curious and off topic, is there anyone with non tight curls that has co-washed for a long time and still has thick hair? *goes to find cowash thread* *edit* nevermind i found some type 2's that faired well, how do they do it, some kind of witchcraft! :D

good luck op, also try humectants or anti humectants (depending on climate) applied to those areas only, you may find it settles down frizz and helps you keep style for longer. i also have similar mixed hair going on and love using the twisting method that was suggested above.

I've CO'd off and on for about a year, I guess. Thickness has remained the same (about 5"). Right now I'm doing CG, so don't comb or detangle in between washes (about every 3rd day). I get a pretty good sized wad of hair in the shower when I wash, but not an abnormal amount, especially considering that's the only time I detangle. I've always shed quite a bit.

ETA: OK, just for the sake of this thread I did a clarifying wash. Same amount of shed, which would be appalling to some but seems to be normal for me. So no difference between shampoo and CO, which is what I've noticed in the past.

jeanniet
June 5th, 2013, 11:58 AM
Okay, I'll try to put pics on for my hair type. :) I'm sitting now with olive oil all around my hair, and when it air dries, I'll take picture of it. The thing is, I have two types of hair. One is slick straight, the other one is wavy and frizzy. Not the nice wave, not curly, but just frizzy.

And yes, cowash is crazy. Before, my hair was a shape of triangle, and it just changed into very thin at the ends. It made me lost a lot of hair, although it does make it more moisturized. Still, I love the thickness of my hair and won't trade it.

In order to properly type your hair, you need to wash with a clarifying shampoo and let it air dry without touching it. No conditioner, no oil, no products at all. You may be surprised. I always knew I had wavy hair, but when I did a proper hair typing I was surprised at how curly it was.

spidermom
June 5th, 2013, 12:53 PM
I used to do the washing that you cited, CWC without the last C really. It was fine for a while, but the mix of conditioner and shampoo caused a very particular kind of buildup that really messed with my hair. I couldn't figure out why my ends were so crispy when I didn't do ANYTHING to them (I did everything to fix it), but luxepiggy showed me another article about how essentially mixing the two caused a buildup that caused the scales of the hair to lift and have buildup stuck underneath it. My hair has since been a lot better just shampooing and conditioning the old fashioned way.

and high-five for finding those articles!

LP educated me out of CWC as well. It's been about a year now, and my ends do seem to be in better condition than they usually are by this length.

I didn't see styling wax, pomade, or putty mentioned in the list of things you've tried that didn't work. Those are my go-to products (whatever is on sale and has a nice scent) for frizz that just won't quit. A little goes a loooooooooooooooong way, and nothing lays the frizzies to rest better than these kinds of products. Use sparingly; I'm not kidding.

Firefox7275
June 5th, 2013, 06:14 PM
Frizz and pouf scream hidden wave or curl: many curly or wavy girls have a straighter underlayer, I do myself. The best you can do is have a curly specialist haircut and/ or work out how to maximise the wave in that area (hydration, protein, magnesium sulphate work for different people). The more you straighten your hair the more damage occurs, the worse the frizz and pouf will be.

Have you considered the Curly Girl method? Contrary to popular belief you do not have to conditioner only wash, if you have a sensitive scalp or tendency to systemic inflammation or thin hair one can wash with a super gentle sulphate free shampoo. Please do not use a shampoo bar or soap, being alkaline these are harsh on both skin and hair, better to choose a product at pH 4.5 to 5.5 which suit skin and hair best.

Much of healthcare or personal care is about finding the right combination of therapies, not one miracle treatment. If you have naturally dry hair AND live in a humid climate you very likely will need too address your hair issues from more than one angle and continue treating regularly over the long term. It would be worth determining your hair properties, particularly if you have an issue with porosity, and choosing the ingredients in your product accordingly.

Lastly if you feel your texture of your new growth has changed substantially you might look to your health. Either a general checkup with your family doctor, or review your diet and lifestyle. It is OH SO easy to miss or simply not recognise minor symptoms in oneself when they creep up slowly.

Firefox7275
June 5th, 2013, 06:31 PM
also just curious and off topic, is there anyone with non tight curls that has co-washed for a long time and still has thick hair? *goes to find cowash thread* *edit* nevermind i found some type 2's that faired well, how do they do it, some kind of witchcraft! :D

good luck op, also try humectants or anti humectants (depending on climate) applied to those areas only, you may find it settles down frizz and helps you keep style for longer. i also have similar mixed hair going on and love using the twisting method that was suggested above.

There are numerous type 2s on curly hair forums/ groups that conditioner-only wash successfully. Far more than have problems, any that do are easily balanced out by the recognised phenomenon of sulphate surfactants causing hair loss in susceptible individuals to shed. It's always going to be the ones with dramatic effects like shedding that report their frightening results, including the ones who wrongly blame a product or technique.

Why does shedding occasionally happen with co-washing? Many possible causes from over enthusiastic massage, to choosing products packed with irritant plant extracts or additives, to worsening underlying scalp complaints like undiagnosed seborrhoeic dermatitis. I am constantly shocked by how many people absolutely refuse to accept that flaking and itching are symptoms needing a diagnosis. Untreated SD does not respond well to either oiling or, often, conditioner only washing and it's a really common condition.

I am a type 2 wavy, with sensitive eczematous skin who has co-washed for over two years. My skin is far happier than it ever was with shampoo: sebum production is reduced, atopic eczema healed the first week, hair depoufed the first week and is now overall healthier (shinier, less breakage, dry ends gone) tho neither thicker nor thinner. To me it's witchcraft that anyone doesn't notice negative effects from sulphate shampoos, given the research shows even 1% thins and dehydrates healthy skin. Just shows how resilient the human body can be and that causation and correlation are not one and the same!!

spirals
June 5th, 2013, 09:55 PM
I used to have canopy frizz. I live in a humid climate. What's working for me is using a rinse with a natural mucilage in it. I wash with soap because detergent shampoo was making me lose wads of hair in the shower. So I need an acid rinse, and the mucilage stays in and smooths my hair and helps with detangling. I don't know why, but it seems to work better than silicone products ever did, even in tornado weather. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=110611