sore scalp help

[Vetticus]

Hi,

I've been a long time lurker, and I'm hoping that the great LHC can help with my mother's scalp.

She has a sore scalp. She had bad hair dye problem a couple of years ago (Aveda dye/ hairdresser burnt her scalp), and she burnt her scalp from 1980 poodle perms (actually in the 1980s).

My mum is 76, she has superfine (seriously superfine. Hairdressers are in awe of how fine her hair is), super thin type i thickness, 1a hair that is shoulder length.
She has a natural blonde forelock, but the rest of her hair is 70% dark blonde/light brown, 30% grey. She has really beautiful hair... just not much of it.
She has no flakes, no scalp eczema, dandruff, anything that looks scratchy. But, her scalp hurts and itches.

She routinely uses caster oil on her hair/scalp. Before shampooing, she oils with Vatika. At least once a week she has a variation of the SMT (i include neem and cassia). I've recently started her using glycerine, to help moisturise her hair. She does an ACV rinse as often as she remembers. She has used daktarin, and it has helped, but not a great deal. We dye her hair with henna/cassia. I also put the Lush Snake Oil Bar and R&B to use on her scalp.

It all helps, but I still get told: "oh, my head feels very delicate. Is it red? It feels like it's red."

She doesn't like tea tree, or eucalyptus oils. She will not do a tea rinse. A lemon oil rinse left her hair dry, and her scalp very tender.

She washes her hair everyday- with baby shampoo. I suspect that this is what is making her scalp sore, but because her hair is so fine and thin, it's hard finding an alternative to shampoo. Cone free leaves her hair in a mess. She doesn't like sulfate free. She used to do the CO washing, or CSC washing, but her hair was so limp she stoped. She will not water only wash.

Is there something else to do?
Is there something to sooth the scalp? Something to cool it?

I am really looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

[Kherome]

To me it sounds like she is dumping an awful lot of stuff on her head. And washing too much. Every other day is likely more than enough even if she has fine thin hair. She could easily be irritated by one of the zillions of things she is using on her head. IMO Baby shampoo is bad for the hair. If I recall right, it is very alkaline?

[Angelica]

You can't get a more delicate scalp than a baby's. So everything you use on the baby's scalp has to be delicate. In my opinion baby shampoo is okay, because also consider how fine baby's hair is. They won't make anything that is harsh for a baby's scalp. She could try diluting the shampoo to see if that makes a difference. I don't know if dyeing her hair is a good idea really, even if it is herbal stuff. Maybe stop so much oiling as well. I can understand about the tea tree stuff, the stink alone puts me off and I am allergic to it. I just think she needs to baby her hair. Also if a sore scalp is a real problem maybe get a doctor to refer her to a trichologist to see what is going on. There products on the market especially designed for people who suffer from dry scalp conditions and even eczema, psoarisis and dermatitis so possibly that will help her.

[jacqueline101]

I'd go to a doctor and see what they can do for her.

[SerinaDaith]

Some baby shampoos are good and gental some are really not. I find Johnson & Johnson to harsh, we use Burt's Bees on our kids. Why does she wash every day? Can she stretch even one day? Also I would say back off fhe other stuff. Use one thing at a time. I get a little sore every so often with oil too because it clumps my hair together so my hair pulls at my scalp differently.

[lapushka]

I agree with the other posters. Get her to stop using so much stuff on her hair, especially if she washes daily. It's no good, even if it is "just" oil or herbs, it might just be too much for her. Try going between dye sessions longer, see if that helps any. Also agreeing that she should consult a doctor. It might be something that needs to be looked at properly.

[Kelikea]

Could she dilute the baby shampoo? And then try skipping a wash? My other thought would be to make a spritzer with a little lavender oil to use in between washes. I used this on my step-mom when she was having chemo, to help soothe the scalp.

[MissAlida]

Try a yoghurt mask for the skin. It always makes my scalp feel very soothed and nice. Also, I second what others have said about too many products.

[Firefox7275]

Hi,

I've been a long time lurker, and I'm hoping that the great LHC can help with my mother's scalp.

She has a sore scalp. She had bad hair dye problem a couple of years ago (Aveda dye/ hairdresser burnt her scalp), and she burnt her scalp from 1980 poodle perms (actually in the 1980s).

My mum is 76, she has superfine (seriously superfine. Hairdressers are in awe of how fine her hair is), super thin type i thickness, 1a hair that is shoulder length.
She has a natural blonde forelock, but the rest of her hair is 70% dark blonde/light brown, 30% grey. She has really beautiful hair... just not much of it.
She has no flakes, no scalp eczema, dandruff, anything that looks scratchy. But, her scalp hurts and itches.

She routinely uses caster oil on her hair/scalp. Before shampooing, she oils with Vatika. At least once a week she has a variation of the SMT (i include neem and cassia). I've recently started her using glycerine, to help moisturise her hair. She does an ACV rinse as often as she remembers. She has used daktarin, and it has helped, but not a great deal. We dye her hair with henna/cassia. I also put the Lush Snake Oil Bar and R&B to use on her scalp.

It all helps, but I still get told: "oh, my head feels very delicate. Is it red? It feels like it's red."

She doesn't like tea tree, or eucalyptus oils. She will not do a tea rinse. A lemon oil rinse left her hair dry, and her scalp very tender.

She washes her hair everyday- with baby shampoo. I suspect that this is what is making her scalp sore, but because her hair is so fine and thin, it's hard finding an alternative to shampoo. Cone free leaves her hair in a mess. She doesn't like sulfate free. She used to do the CO washing, or CSC washing, but her hair was so limp she stoped. She will not water only wash.

Is there something else to do?
Is there something to sooth the scalp? Something to cool it?

I am really looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

What has her family doctor or dermatologist diagnosed? Unless you know the root cause you are treating blind and can actually worsen the condition, you are describing to us a symptom not a dermatological condition. Many plant extracts and oils can be irritant or allergens including almost everything you list that you have tried, are using now or have considered! I suspect all the fatty acids in the oils are doing is protecting her hair from the harsh shampoo, it would make more sense to change the wash product and drop all those 'natural' irritants.

Be aware that once you have a damaged skin barrier or inflammation almost anything can irritate, even chlorine in tap water. Soaking skin daily can flush out the skin's Natural Moisturising Factors, worsening certain skin complaints. Many shampoos don't just remove oils from the surface of the skin and hair, they remove internal fatty acids from the structure of the skin and hair, again impairing it's ability to act as a water and chemical resistant barrier.

Baby shampoo is not that gentle that is a myth, it's usually 'no tears' so alkaline pH (7++), skin prefers ~5.5 and hair ~4.5 both of which are acidic, permanent hair dye is also usually highly alkaline which is partly why it can damage the skin barrier and hair. A sulphate free cleansing product at pH 4.5 to 5.5 include standardised aloe vera inner leaf gel (proven healing, anti inflammatory, hypoallergenic) is an option. Komaza Care do some lovely haircare products that consider scalp health.

Lastly review your mother's diet ensuring it is as anti inflammatory and nutrient dense as possible, especially look at oily fish, sugar and white/ refined carbs. This can strengthen the skin barrier, calm inappropriate immune responses and reduce systemic inflammation.

[In2wishin]

I second the dermatologist check up. It also sounds like she is doing too much to her hair/scalp. The constant touching and manipulation could be aggravating the hair follicles. Perhaps she can try just washing every couple of days and cut out the oils, rinses, etc.

[Vetticus]

thanks for the replies.

i don't think she does too much to her head. i think she washes too often, or at least with the wrong shampoo. she has always been delicate.

the doctor looked at her scalp, and thought nothing was wrong. he was under the impression she's attention seeking. looking at her scalp, it looks fine.

she was diagnosed with eczema prior, and was given cortisone creme. it did not get better. since then, she's been on an eczema diet, so there have not been any flare ups. she eats a good, balanced diet with lots of vegetables and protein. i'm sure diet is not the issue - if it was, it would be obvious elsewhere.

the only thing that helped with the eczema on her scalp was castor oil and neem. if she stops using that, the eczema comes back.
castor oil - a few drops massaged on the head every few days. neem - once a week in a SMT.
she's been doing this for years now. so, this is not the problem.

she does the SMT once a week - aloe, a coconut conditioner (very gentle), honey, and I mix the neem & cassia in this. this has helped with the "heat", & she feels it's a relief.

she tried daktarin earlier this year, and has since stopped. it made no difference - better or worse. she didn't get the extra hair growth :(.

dying hair - she really doesn't like grey. she uses henna every 2 or 3 months (not full strength - it's very dilute). her scalp doesn't become inflammed after the henna. she doesn't complain about it at all. however, she used to use packet dyes (5+ years ago), and would have a bright red scalp, and compain that it burns. about 3 years ago, she went to the hairdresser and her hair was dyed (aveda approved hairdresser)- she told the hairdresser her scalp was burning - but they said it was normal. she lost a lot of hair, and had scabs on her head. it wasn't pretty. after this episode, she waited a long time until everything healed, and used lavendar to help with the healing. eventually began using henna again. she always loves the henna. so, i pretty certain it's not the henna. i forgot about using lavendar again, thanks Kelikea, it'll try that.

lush - very rare use. every so often, when i'm using the lush products, i'll put some on her. never once has she had a bad reaction to it. she had an allergic reaction to a facial (it contained wheat), and some of the liquid dripped beyond her hair line - the R&B cleared up the redness on her scalp. the doctor suggested using it on her face too. so, i don't think this is the problem.

vatika - she's been using this forever. she's never had a reaction to it.

rinses - ACV when she remembers (so maybe once a month). really not often. doesn't seem to make it better or worse. her hair loves it - so soft and shiny.

there's no hair dryer, or heat damage.

is this really too much? it's a bit of castor oil every second day, a SMT treatment once a week, and a weak henna every 2-3 months. shampooing everyday, yeah, i'm not happy about that, but oiling before hand with vatika... hmmm.

there is no way in hell that i'll convince her to put yoghurt on her head. i've tried. things she also won't use: mayo, tea, white vinegar, and a bunch of other stuff. i'll try to temp her with a yoghurt treatment, but...

the thing that irkes me is her shampoo. she oils before hand with vatika, but still, baby shampoo. i'll try the suggestions with gentler shampoos, thank you for these ideas... also how would you dilute the shampoo? water, or oil, or something else? i'm trying to talk her into washing it less often, but she rolls her eyes at me.

i will definately bring back the lavendar... and i'll try to dilute the shampoo she's using atm, and then try some of the more gentle suggestions on here. i will try to talk her into a yoghurt scalp mask, but i have no idea if that will actually fly.

thank you all for your suggestions.

[Vetticus]

just wanted to add... and i'm not sure how to edit the last post... i was thinking along the same line as Firefox7275. i thought maybe the oil was protecting her from the baby shampoo, but because it's used everyday, the issue is with the wash.

it's just, what is a really gentle shampoo? so thank you to all the posters who suggested the more gentle brands... and i'll try to dilute the one she's using atm. she won't just throw it out.

[swearnsue]

The gentlest shampoos are ones that say "for color treated hair". Something she might like to cool her scalp is rosewater spritz. I buy mine a drugstore.com but it's probably everywhere and not too expensive. I just spray my scalp, especially my part if I've been in the sun a lot. Feels and smells wonderful! Good for the face too.

[rainfortheend]

What has helped me is diluting shampoo 1:1 with honey. Honey has moisturizing properties for both the hair and scalp, and when diluted, isn't sticky.

[Firefox7275]

just wanted to add... and i'm not sure how to edit the last post... i was thinking along the same line as Firefox7275. i thought maybe the oil was protecting her from the baby shampoo, but because it's used everyday, the issue is with the wash.

it's just, what is a really gentle shampoo? so thank you to all the posters who suggested the more gentle brands... and i'll try to dilute the one she's using atm. she won't just throw it out.

If she has a history of atopic eczema and contact dermatitis that clearly says she has an innately defective skin barrier, she definitely should be avoiding sulphate surfactants ideally most anionic surfactants and anything alkaline. You are confusing allergic contact dermatitis with irritant contact dermatitis, also acute reactions with chronic reactions, there are often multiple contributory factors in dermatological complaints not one. Allergies and sensitivities can change at any time so what she has used for years is a red herring.

Can she use up the baby shampoo as body wash or hand wash instead of as shampoo? It's the same basic formula, same surfactants. I really rate Komaza Care products, their sulphate free Moja shampoo is pH 4.5 and they are very knowledgeable on scalp care not just hair care. Also lose the regular scalp oilings, definitely drop the castor oil even in the Oil Cleansing Method the castor is heavily diluted with inert oils to limit irritation. As a dyed redhead (the worst colour to retain) it's not my experience that colour care shampoos are gentle on skin nor surprisingly even on hair. They are often packed with harsh sulphate surfactants and ingredients that strip chemicals that might dull colour, the difference is often as simple as the addition of a particular polyquat or silicone that supposedly helps retain colour molecules.
http://www.komazahaircare.com/

Basic SMTs are fine (aloe, honey, one oil that is NOT rich in oleic acid, super basic conditioner) but don't use heat/ towel turbans because that increases irritation or inflammation, be sure you are using a standardised inner leaf aloe vera product with few additives, not whole leaf juice nor stuff with a pile of needless ingredients. Lose the weekly neem and cassia, you want to reduce the chemical assault and let the scalp heal not increase the number of potential irritants the skin is exposed to. Every plant extract is not just one chemical but a cocktail of different chemicals.

What do you mean by an eczema diet? Is she eating plenty of oily fish, piles of low sugar fruit and non starchy vegetables, avoiding sugar and white/ refined carbs, limiting caffeine and omega-6 rich oils?

The only topical that made a substantial difference with my atopic eczema was unrefined shea butter, it was better than the high potency corticosteroid cream I was prescribed. Being a science geek I had to Google because I was suspicious .... the problem turned out to be shampoo bubbles running down my arm, the shea butter was simply providing protection not some magical salve. Since I started considering my skin's barrier function and sticking to proven actives the difference in my skin (and hair!) have been amazing: no eczema for over two years, two tiny patches of SD only after abusing my poor scalp with box dye and hair colour removers (both highly alkaline). Have known others in real life and on forums get similar benefits from starting to respect their skin's barrier function.

[jeanniet]

I agree with what Firefox has said. First thing I would do is get her off the baby shampoo, and if you can, get her to shampoo every other day; if not, at least dilute the shampoo heavily. With the amount of hair you're describing, she doesn't need to be using more than 1/4-1/2 teaspoon of shampoo. Do this for a couple of weeks and see if her scalp is starting to feel better. Then go from there.

[SerinaDaith]

Has she tried Aloe?

[Kaelee]

I agree with stopping the baby shampoo. There are many gentle shampoos out there besides baby shampoo.

I'm going to go against the grain though and say if the castor oil is helping her eczema (especially if she's been using it for years with no ill effect) I wouldn't stop doing it just yet. Only change one thing at a time...if you change everything at once you won't know what actually fixed the problem! (if anything does.)

[Othala]

I recommend keeping to a very few products that contain a very few ingredients.

I suggest trying E45 shampoo or Free and Clear shampoo and a leave-in conditioner applied to the hair only and not the scalp.

Even if your mother has been using products for years in the belief that they are not causing the continuing problems, how can she know that in fact they are not the problem?

[Angelica]

I think fragrance free is the way to go too. I really don't see the issue of the baby shampoo thing, that is a very mild shampoo, of course there are some better than others that applies to all shampoos. But I do understand that overwashing it could dry the scalp out. Is her scalp itchy? I hope you find a solution for your mother's problem :)

[Lunadriael]

Where do you live? You could get her something like this: http://www.handmadenaturals.co.uk/shop/shop.php?action=full&id=198

It's a really natural, gentle SLS free shampoo that hopefully shouldn't irritate even if she used it everyday. It kind of smells of lavender if I recall rightly. I quite like it anyway. Just for an idea.