Frizz and white residue after washing...

[arelrios]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice. My hair is super frizzy (living in SFL doesn't help) and I would love to know what could I do to tame it/ prevent it.
Also, I noticed that every time I wash my hair (it doesn't matter the products and for how long I rinse) I always have white bits/residue at the roots. The more I touch the scalp, the more they will show.

The products I use (alternating) are: VO5 Kiwilime clarifying shampoo and conditioner, VO5 passion fruit cond, bain de terre shampoo, suave moroccan shine mask, coconut oil, anti frizz finishing cream (cannot remember the brand at the moment)

Note I don't use all of the above at the same time. My routine is shampoo -Cond - oil or finishing cream or shine mask ...

Thanks for recommending either products/routine to help with the frizz and whatever that white thing on my scalp after I wash my hair is.

:D

[LadyCelestina]

Is there a chance your scalp is just dry?

[arelrios]

Is there a chance your scalp is just dry?

Apologies for my ignorance but, what does that mean? how do I know if it's that?

[panffle]

You said you alternate shampoos, could it be that you're using the clarifying shampoo too often? Maybe that's drying out your scalp and hair, making it frizzy. Also it seems you live in a dry area (sorry, I'm not sure where that is), you could try moisturizing products.

[arelrios]

You said you alternate shampoos, could it be that you're using the clarifying shampoo too often? Maybe that's drying out your scalp and hair, making it frizzy. Also it seems you live in a dry area (sorry, I'm not sure where that is), you could try moisturizing products.

Yes, I have been using the clarifying shampoo a bit more often. Twice/ 3 times a month. But, even before knowing/using clarifying shampoo, I have had this issue :(

[arelrios]

double post ...

[Vrindi]

SFL = South Florida? Because that is not a dry climate. Still, it's possible that you are drying out your scalp. Although the humidity there is almost rain forest, you still get a lot of sun and salt air, and all that can be very drying. Maybe incorporating an oil scalp massage into your routine before you wash would help. Also, check your water. Some places have lots of minerals in it that can dry your skin and hair. An ACV rinse might help to balance the PH of your hair and scalp too.

Say hi to the beach for me. It's kind of the only thing I miss about Florida.

[arelrios]

SFL = South Florida? Because that is not a dry climate. Still, it's possible that you are drying out your scalp. Although the humidity there is almost rain forest, you still get a lot of sun and salt air, and all that can be very drying. Maybe incorporating an oil scalp massage into your routine before you wash would help. Also, check your water. Some places have lots of minerals in it that can dry your skin and hair. An ACV rinse might help to balance the PH of your hair and scalp too.

Say hi to the beach for me. It's kind of the only thing I miss about Florida.

Yup, exactly! South Florida... I also know we have very hard water here... plus humidity plus whatever else is in the air. Is funny because I work 1 block from the ocean and every time I leave my house, my hair is nice... I get to the office and is a poof ball ... see this for reference lol http://pinterest.com/pin/161707442840660827/

Now that you mentioned the ACV rinses, it does help with frizz; but I also have to wash my hair more often because it gets really greasy. Do you think it has something to do with all this?

[Anje]

My guess is that it's a combination of the products that you're using and your hairtype.

Now, some white stuff on your scalp a few days after washing is normal. That'll be oil (sebum) and maybe some shed skin, and when it's white or off-white, it's nice and clean. Lots of it could be due to an infection, or it could be your scalp reacting to a lot of harsh drying cleansers by producing more oil to counteract the drying effects. (Some people have more reactive scalps than others. Mine reacts pretty strongly, and when I start using harsher shampoos I have to wash more frequently because of this effect. Less cleansing actually means my head gets less greasy.) So consider washing a little less frequently or trying out a no-sulfate shampoo, and see if it helps. If it's seriously flakey/greasy, you might have something like seborrhic dermatitis going on, so you might want to consult a doctor if it's crazy.

Also, with the scalp thing, I agree on doing dilute vinegar rinses. They help scalps a lot of the time. If it seems like it's making your hair too greasy, try diluting it more before you write it off.

As for the frizz, my instincts tell me that you've got more curly hair than you think. Yes, 1c types tend to get a little bit of a frizzy halo, but "super frizzy" sounds like you've actually got some serious waves or curls hiding. Which is awesome -- curls are cool and unique in this land of flatironed hair. What should you do? I'd like to suggest the Curly Girl book as required reading. Try some of the techniques out. For starters, when you next wash your hair (maybe in the evening or on a lazy weekend day when you don't have to be anywhere for a while), slather it with some heavy conditioner and fingercomb it in. Let it sit for a while (let's say 10 minutes), then rinse about half or three-quarters of it out, leaving some in. Then step out of the shower, wrap a towel around your shoulders, and let it drip. Do not touch it, do not towel it, don't even turban it. Just let it drip-dry and see what it looks like. Maybe snap a picture for us. My bet is that you'll have some cool clumpy waves and spirals if you try this.

[alexis917]

Um....maybe you have really hard water?
I got residue from using Garnier shampoo before, though. My hair hated it.

[Suze2012]

Just a thought about products but to any of the contain humectants?
They would add to frizz in humidity.
As does shampoo for me though..I have had many less frizz days since stopping shampoo use.
Hairdryers, combs and brushes and normal towels and leaving y hair loose to sleep all cause frizz for me.
But I am in a very different climate. -but relative humidity and dew points do alter what I do wiht my hair day to day.

The residue..I don' t know..possible over conditioning?
With co washing I have a white powder left in my bath if I don't clean it after I co wash.

[Vrindi]

Yup, exactly! South Florida... I also know we have very hard water here... plus humidity plus whatever else is in the air. Is funny because I work 1 block from the ocean and every time I leave my house, my hair is nice... I get to the office and is a poof ball ... see this for reference lol http://pinterest.com/pin/161707442840660827/

Now that you mentioned the ACV rinses, it does help with frizz; but I also have to wash my hair more often because it gets really greasy. Do you think it has something to do with all this?

When I lived in SFL (it's where I grew up) my hair was always super dry and frizzy and oily at the scalp. Now I believe it's because I was washing it every day. If you aren't stretching your washes, this could be the case. Your scalp is over-compensating for being stripped too often. Also, if the ACV is leaving your hair greasier (it's happened to me), try diluting it more, and using a misting bottle to spray it on in the shower, instead of pouring it over your head.

[arelrios]

My guess is that it's a combination of the products that you're using and your hairtype.

Now, some white stuff on your scalp a few days after washing is normal. That'll be oil (sebum) and maybe some shed skin, and when it's white or off-white, it's nice and clean. Lots of it could be due to an infection, or it could be your scalp reacting to a lot of harsh drying cleansers by producing more oil to counteract the drying effects. (Some people have more reactive scalps than others. Mine reacts pretty strongly, and when I start using harsher shampoos I have to wash more frequently because of this effect. Less cleansing actually means my head gets less greasy.) So consider washing a little less frequently or trying out a no-sulfate shampoo, and see if it helps. If it's seriously flakey/greasy, you might have something like seborrhic dermatitis going on, so you might want to consult a doctor if it's crazy.

Also, with the scalp thing, I agree on doing dilute vinegar rinses. They help scalps a lot of the time. If it seems like it's making your hair too greasy, try diluting it more before you write it off.

As for the frizz, my instincts tell me that you've got more curly hair than you think. Yes, 1c types tend to get a little bit of a frizzy halo, but "super frizzy" sounds like you've actually got some serious waves or curls hiding. Which is awesome -- curls are cool and unique in this land of flatironed hair. What should you do? I'd like to suggest the Curly Girl book as required reading. Try some of the techniques out. For starters, when you next wash your hair (maybe in the evening or on a lazy weekend day when you don't have to be anywhere for a while), slather it with some heavy conditioner and fingercomb it in. Let it sit for a while (let's say 10 minutes), then rinse about half or three-quarters of it out, leaving some in. Then step out of the shower, wrap a towel around your shoulders, and let it drip. Do not touch it, do not towel it, don't even turban it. Just let it drip-dry and see what it looks like. Maybe snap a picture for us. My bet is that you'll have some cool clumpy waves and spirals if you try this.

Thanks so much for your detailed reply Anje,
I notice the white bits/stuff right after I step out of the shower. Is like if I don't rinse my hair well enough. The SLS shampoo has the same effect. You are absolutely right that spacing the washing helps, my hair gets nicer (less frizzy) as the days pass. I am assuming is because it gets oilier, perhaps?

Do you really think I could have waves or even curls? Woooaaahhhh ... that would be a really pleasant surprise! :magic: I always have been told I have pin straight hair, but if I have to confess, the reason why I got directed to the LHC was when last year (with APL length) googled "weird wave on back of my hair" . My mom always told me, I have my dad's hair pattern: hair curls up on the right side and down on the left side (does it make any sense?)

Maybe I am exaggerating a bit with the frizz and is not as noticeable as it feels, because believe me, it feels like I have a HUGE disco wig.

This is one of my first pictures for LHC
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii576/arelrios/photo3.jpg

Hair right out of the shower:
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii576/arelrios/photo1-4.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/arelrios/media/photo1-4.jpg.html)

My picture from this past sunday:
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii576/arelrios/145f7150-e9c1-4f71-91db-5c2eec04e5c3_zps4c8d90c2.jpg

Picture from sunday - Up angle
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii576/arelrios/41bcd45d-1d56-4dd1-8125-f16c20bcfee9_zps502ae24d.jpg

I will try to let the conditioner drip and see what is the final result and dilute the ACV more.





Um....maybe you have really hard water?
I got residue from using Garnier shampoo before, though. My hair hated it.
Yes, we have really hard water. The residue happens with any shampoo/condit I use. I will try what Anje suggests and dilute the ACV more.

[arelrios]

When I lived in SFL (it's where I grew up) my hair was always super dry and frizzy and oily at the scalp. Now I believe it's because I was washing it every day. If you aren't stretching your washes, this could be the case. Your scalp is over-compensating for being stripped too often. Also, if the ACV is leaving your hair greasier (it's happened to me), try diluting it more, and using a misting bottle to spray it on in the shower, instead of pouring it over your head.

This exactly describes my hair. I don't wash to often (I never washed my hair daily) ... The closest I've been washing my hair is every 3 days, even when working out (I know, gross) but it gives you and idea.
I will try to dilute the vinegar more (I use white vinegar - since I read the ACV can alter the color of the hair)...

[arelrios]

Just a thought about products but to any of the contain humectants?
They would add to frizz in humidity.
As does shampoo for me though..I have had many less frizz days since stopping shampoo use.
Hairdryers, combs and brushes and normal towels and leaving y hair loose to sleep all cause frizz for me.
But I am in a very different climate. -but relative humidity and dew points do alter what I do wiht my hair day to day.

The residue..I don' t know..possible over conditioning?
With co washing I have a white powder left in my bath if I don't clean it after I co wash.

I don't brush, comb or use hairdryer or regular towels. To dry my hair, I use a tshirt. Sometimes I wear my hair loose to sleep, but often I braid it.

Regarding the over conditioning, I stopped using conditioning for a few weeks... My hair was frizzier/drier/harder than ever. It was horrible! It was so rough to the touch I actually considered a big cut. After I started the use of conditioner again, my hair absorbed it completely and it felt much better (softer)

[LadyCelestina]

Dry like...well just like you can have dry flaky skin say on your face,you can have the same on your scalp.Basically,it's like dandruff.

ETA : Have you tried scritching or oil massages /scalp/ ?

[Vrindi]

Arelrios, you definitely do not have straight hair. It is wavy, at the very least!

[Anje]

Agreed -- you are definitely wavy. I'd say at very minimum 2a/2b from those pictures. Quite possibly at least 2c after some TLC and moisturizing.

That's why you're perceiving your hair as frizzy. It's not straight; it's trying to be wavy!

People often observe that frizz goes down a bit after a few days because the hair's getting oilier. That's not a bad thing, either. The oils your scalp makes are meant to protect it and the hair, so you want to preserve some of them. To artificially do that, you can even oil right out of the shower. I tend to prefer something like sesame or emu oil for this, or even a tiny dab of olive oil (which seems to be an easy one to use too much of), rather than coconut oil, but what oil you prefer is largely a personal thing.

But try the thing with leaving some conditioner in your hair and drip-drying, first. I think you'll be amazed at the waves you'll see.

[jacqueline101]

Maybe it's build up or your hair did like mine hated my old routine needed a change.

[arelrios]

Arelrios, you definitely do not have straight hair. It is wavy, at the very least!

Really :agape:? Im going to celebrate!!! :disco::cheer:


Agreed -- you are definitely wavy. I'd say at very minimum 2a/2b from those pictures. Quite possibly at least 2c after some TLC and moisturizing.

That's why you're perceiving your hair as frizzy. It's not straight; it's trying to be wavy!

People often observe that frizz goes down a bit after a few days because the hair's getting oilier. That's not a bad thing, either. The oils your scalp makes are meant to protect it and the hair, so you want to preserve some of them. To artificially do that, you can even oil right out of the shower. I tend to prefer something like sesame or emu oil for this, or even a tiny dab of olive oil (which seems to be an easy one to use too much of), rather than coconut oil, but what oil you prefer is largely a personal thing.

But try the thing with leaving some conditioner in your hair and drip-drying, first. I think you'll be amazed at the waves you'll see.

I would have never thought to be a 2 ... let's not even talk about b or c... Off to read the wavy/curly threads... lol... Will definitely try the leave the cond this Saturday and update the results...

Thanks so much for your help :blossom:

Totally off topic (sorry), but do you think I've reached BSL? :pray:

[arelrios]

Dry like...well just like you can have dry flaky skin say on your face,you can have the same on your scalp.Basically,it's like dandruff.

ETA : Have you tried scritching or oil massages /scalp/ ?

Nope. Scritching def never tried it before. I remember once I tried a scalp massage and got super scared to see how much shed I got. :( (on top on my regular shed hairs)

[starlamelissa]

I think your at least in the two range. Ihave wavy hair and I am finally learning to work with it, not against it. I am not using the curly girl method (I need a good shampoo in my life!) but I am using hair gel, scrunching, and not dry brushing.

I think your products sound great, I think potential buildup is a bit over emphasized. However it sounds like you may have a scalp issue. I recommend using lukewarm water to wash, being careful to fully rinse your scalp post shampoo. If your white stuff remains I'd recommend a good dandruff shampoo. My husband has the best hair when he washes daily with suave scalp solutions. He uses a 2 in one formula, but they make a coconut scented shampoo and coordinating conditioner. I recommend using a dandruff shampoo that is moisterizing, and if that doesn't work I think you should see your doctor.

[panffle]

Since you live in a humid area, then that will cause some frizz. But as others said, you're way more wavy than you thought and that is probably what is causing the frizz! Changing your hair care routine will help :)

[LadyCelestina]

Nope. Scritching def never tried it before. I remember once I tried a scalp massage and got super scared to see how much shed I got. :( (on top on my regular shed hairs)

I'm sorry if I'm not being helpful and dry scalp isn't your case :( But it's the first thing that comes to mind when reading your description of the problem.

Scritching is scratching with a comb gently across your scalp to remove flakiness.Gently - you don't want to irritate your scalp or get tangles.After you feel you've got your whole scalp,comb your hair well.

It's something that people that are on WO or SO /water only,sebum only/ routines do,but I have found out I too need to have a scritching session at least once a week or two,or I get white flakes at the roots and more come off whenever I touch my scalp.I have to scritch my bangs more often because I wash them daily...and then I'm 100 % flake free.

[cathair]

No good advice really, but think your waves are really lovely :) Bet if you leave you hair to air dry without touching, you get a few curls, since it looks like you waves start quite high up. Please do let us know how it goes :)

[arelrios]

I think your at least in the two range. I have wavy hair and I am finally learning to work with it, not against it. I am not using the curly girl method (I need a good shampoo in my life!) but I am using hair gel, scrunching, and not dry brushing.

I think your products sound great, I think potential buildup is a bit over emphasized. However it sounds like you may have a scalp issue. I recommend using lukewarm water to wash, being careful to fully rinse your scalp post shampoo. If your white stuff remains I'd recommend a good dandruff shampoo. My husband has the best hair when he washes daily with suave scalp solutions. He uses a 2 in one formula, but they make a coconut scented shampoo and coordinating conditioner. I recommend using a dandruff shampoo that is moisterizing, and if that doesn't work I think you should see your doctor.

Thanks for your advice Starlamelissa I will be trying different options for sure (one at a time), including the dandruff shampoo. The dandruff shampoo sounds like a good idea and Suave is def an option that I can try (since is cheap and I don't like to have product sitting around just because ;)) Hopefully, I won't have to see a doctor :D



Since you live in a humid area, then that will cause some frizz. But as others said, you're way more wavy than you thought and that is probably what is causing the frizz! Changing your hair care routine will help :)

Thanks Panffle! I will keep my options open and see how this hair of mine behaves with the experimentation :)


I'm sorry if I'm not being helpful and dry scalp isn't your case :( But it's the first thing that comes to mind when reading your description of the problem.

Scritching is scratching with a comb gently across your scalp to remove flakiness.Gently - you don't want to irritate your scalp or get tangles.After you feel you've got your whole scalp,comb your hair well.

It's something that people that are on WO or SO /water only,sebum only/ routines do,but I have found out I too need to have a scritching session at least once a week or two,or I get white flakes at the roots and more come off whenever I touch my scalp.I have to scritch my bangs more often because I wash them daily...and then I'm 100 % flake free.

Thanks Ladycelestina, I will be testing different methods/routines. As you said, maybe I will have to oil my scalp once in a while... who knows? Very excited to try and find what it works for me :)


No good advice really, but think your waves are really lovely :) Bet if you leave you hair to air dry without touching, you get a few curls, since it looks like you waves start quite high up. Please do let us know how it goes :)

Aw thanks for the compliment cathair! Yes, I am def. going to post results... I remember someone made a thread with a similar experience: thinking she had straight hair and ended up with quite curly hair... off to search for that thread now!

[arelrios]

double post... sorry :(

[jeanniet]

You definitely don't have straight hair! I agree with Anje about looking into CG. Your hair looks dry to me, especially the part past your shoulders. I think getting more moisture into your hair will help. If you feel like you have to shampoo, try something gentler and dilute it. Shea Moisture's Moisture Retention shampoo is great and I highly recommend it for a gentle shampoo. I found that I had fewer problems with itchy scalp and flaking when I stopped using conventional shampoos and worked on getting more moisture into my hair. Dandruff shampoos can be pretty harsh, so I would avoid that route until you're sure it's not simply a moisture problem.

Since humidity/dew point can affect what products you use, you might want to check this out: http://www.naturallycurly.com/frizz-forecast
It can help you judge whether you need to avoid humectants (glycerin, etc.).

[starlamelissa]

Classic head and shoulders is very chalky and harsh, but there are plenty of moisturizing options out there. The scalp solutions by suave is top notch. The beauty brains scientists did a glowing review of the coconut version.

[jeanniet]

The thing is, though, if the only scalp problem is overwashing or just being too dry, treating it as dandruff isn't really going to help. It's better to start cautiously and then go to an anti-dandruff shampoo if it's needed, especially if she wants to enhance her waves. SLS shampoos aren't going to help with the moisture. I used dandruff shampoos for years and the problem only got worse. Then I figured out it wasn't dandruff at all, just dry and sensitive scalp.

I would also read up on the CG method regarding how to properly wash your scalp (you can also check out the Live Curly Live Free website for her method, which is similar). There does need to be some gentle scrubbing/massaging in order to remove debris, dead skin cells, etc.

[starlamelissa]

Ah yes, there is a method to gentle cleansing. I recommend using lukewarm water, massaging with the finger pads, and thoughly rinsing out your products. Rinse rinse rinse some more.

[arelrios]

You definitely don't have straight hair! I agree with Anje about looking into CG. Your hair looks dry to me, especially the part past your shoulders. I think getting more moisture into your hair will help. If you feel like you have to shampoo, try something gentler and dilute it. Shea Moisture's Moisture Retention shampoo is great and I highly recommend it for a gentle shampoo. I found that I had fewer problems with itchy scalp and flaking when I stopped using conventional shampoos and worked on getting more moisture into my hair. Dandruff shampoos can be pretty harsh, so I would avoid that route until you're sure it's not simply a moisture problem.
Since humidity/dew point can affect what products you use, you might want to check this out: http://www.naturallycurly.com/frizz-forecast
It can help you judge whether you need to avoid humectants (glycerin, etc.).


I have some Rainforest Shine shampoo from the body shop. I will try that :)


Classic head and shoulders is very chalky and harsh, but there are plenty of moisturizing options out there. The scalp solutions by suave is top notch. The beauty brains scientists did a glowing review of the coconut version.


The thing is, though, if the only scalp problem is overwashing or just being too dry, treating it as dandruff isn't really going to help. It's better to start cautiously and then go to an anti-dandruff shampoo if it's needed, especially if she wants to enhance her waves. SLS shampoos aren't going to help with the moisture. I used dandruff shampoos for years and the problem only got worse. Then I figured out it wasn't dandruff at all, just dry and sensitive scalp.

I would also read up on the CG method regarding how to properly wash your scalp (you can also check out the Live Curly Live Free website for her method, which is similar). There does need to be some gentle scrubbing/massaging in order to remove debris, dead skin cells, etc.

I will be trying products and methods little by little... and discarding the ones that don't work... but again: i am open to try different things...

[jeanniet]

I have some Rainforest Shine shampoo from the body shop. I will try that :)





I will be trying products and methods little by little... and discarding the ones that don't work... but again: i am open to try different things...

I think it's always best to try the gentlest solutions first. Are you having any itching or soreness along with the flakes? If not, I'd definitely suspect product residue, so making sure you wash your scalp well would be key. If you want to enhance your waves, you need to get more moisture in there, so either CO or a gentler shampoo (and possibly diluted). SLS shampoos aren't usually conducive to encouraging waves. Experiment with leave ins and/or oils, too.

[Firefox7275]

Best thing to do would be to have your scalp issue formally diagnosed, commercial dandruff shampoos are pretty harsh they are not a good idea to use if you do not have seborrhoeic dermatitis because they can irritate and worsen other skin complaints, trying to moisturise without a diagnosis is dicey too - oleic acid in many plant oils is implicated in seborrhoeic dermatitis. You are definitely a wavy in the 2s, you should be able to tame your frizz with modified Curly Girl routine, my damaged unmanageable hair depoufed the first week tho I was not dealing with your climate.

The obvious shorter term 'self-treatment' seems to me to be to switch to a gentle sulphate surfactant free shampoo that is pH 4.5 to 5.5 which will do away with the need for drying vinegar rinses, respect your skin's protective acid mantle (you cannot repair this with vinegar) and encourage the beneficial skin flora to return. Sulphate surfactants are not good for either skin or hair, they are proven to thin the skin barrier and increase water loss. I like the look of the Komaza Care Moja shampoo, they are into scalp and hair health (actually do analysis for both), I have used a couple of their products and do rate them.

Also review your diet and lifestyle ensuring it is as anti inflammatory and nutrient dense as possible, particularly look at your intake of oily fish, sugar and white/ refined carbs.

[Ramille]

As someone who lives in SFL as well, the water here is the worst! It is so hard. What has worked for me is rinsing my hair in DISTILLED water. I started by sometimes adding a tablespoon of vinegar to a half gallon jug. Now I am WO using distilled with occasional vinegar rinse. I only wash my hair about every 10 days. My frizz has tamed down a lot. We seem to have similar hair types. Maybe it will help you too.

[marymonster]

I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet, but maybe try a vinegar rinse? A tablespoon or two of apple cider vinegar (you could probably use white vinegar) in a cup of water. If it's a scalp problem you could try infusing some rosemary into the water too. Leave in for a few minutes and rinse out. Some people leave it in, but I rinse it out.

[meteor]

Best thing to do would be to have your scalp issue formally diagnosed, commercial dandruff shampoos are pretty harsh they are not a good idea to use if you do not have seborrhoeic dermatitis because they can irritate and worsen other skin complaints, trying to moisturise without a diagnosis is dicey too - oleic acid in many plant oils is implicated in seborrhoeic dermatitis.

Firefox 7275, can you expand on the oleic acid implicated in seborrhoeic dermatitis, please? I've never heard of it and I use lots of different oils (with oleic acid in them) on my scalp, so I obviously want to avoid any negative consequences. Any specific oils that you would point out as problematic? Any information on this or any links to research would be extremely helpful.

Thank you! :)
Extremely useful post, by the way!

[arelrios]

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.. .

I washed my hair on Saturday with the rain-forest shampoo, then kiwi lime conditioner with a very deep massage and finished leaving the passion conditioner drip (as suggested) Before the washing, I put some tea tree oil on my scalp and let sit for around 3-4 hours. I forgot the vinegar rinse, but when I left the shower and checked my hair,... no white bits/residue...

As for the shape of the curls, some of my hair really "stick to each other" and formed curls, the rest ... well, the rest also formed some curls but very lose and I got quit some frizz lol... Right now I am reading on the curly method to see if I can learn on CO and styling ...

Would love to hear some advice on products (cheap first) since most of the curly girls seem to be using deva curl or jesse curl products, which I don't know if they will work and I just don't want to waste money...

I will definitely keep posting and updating on the results of my experiment...

Thanks everyone....

[Firefox7275]

Firefox 7275, can you expand on the oleic acid implicated in seborrhoeic dermatitis, please? I've never heard of it and I use lots of different oils (with oleic acid in them) on my scalp, so I obviously want to avoid any negative consequences. Any specific oils that you would point out as problematic? Any information on this or any links to research would be extremely helpful.

Thank you! :)
Extremely useful post, by the way!

No problem. You should find something in one of these, note that Proctor & Gamble are active in this area of research so conclusions may be angled towards commercially marketable topicals!
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WSKEPJNe_UEC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3494381/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3380954/
http://www.nature.com/jidsp/journal/v10/n3/abs/5640230a.html
http://www.pgscience.com/files/pdf/Dr._Thomas_Dawson/TRI_book_chapter_Ch12_Dandruff.pdf
http://www.pgbeautygroomingscience.com/assets/files/posters/AAD2006/P1622%20Dawson_Malassezia.pdf

The research is largely on the fatty acids, so nobody yet knows what effect combinations will have, no doubt research is ongoing. If I had SD would avoid oils particularly rich in oleic, stearic and palmitic acids such as olive, avocado, sweet almond, shea butter and palm fruit oil. Even without SD but with a history of atopic eczema and contact dermatitis, I still limit (but not avoid) oleic acid (possibly comedogenic as well as irritant), and the omega-6s (pro inflammatory, competitive with the o-3s) but I do use stearic and palmitic acids because they are found in a healthy skin barrier.

If you have SD you might experiment with coconut oil, that is rich is lauric acid and *may* may anti microbial properties as well as being beneficial for porous hair especially. You might be best testing yourself, say half head tests. If you can strengthen your skin barrier/ acid mantle/ beneficial flora with nutrition and product selection (especially considering pH) you may find your skin is far more resistant to different oils and fatty acids anyway. My atopic eczema/ contact dermatitis cleared when I switched from sulphate shampoos and shower gels to conditioner only washing and sulphate free body wash, I am not now sensitive to half the chemicals I once was. Interestingly the only two tiny patches that sometimes pop up are above my ears ... and are triggered by hair dye which is, of course, highly alkaline and so does the skin barrier no favours at all.

[Firefox7275]

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.. .

I washed my hair on Saturday with the rain-forest shampoo, then kiwi lime conditioner with a very deep massage and finished leaving the passion conditioner drip (as suggested) Before the washing, I put some tea tree oil on my scalp and let sit for around 3-4 hours. I forgot the vinegar rinse, but when I left the shower and checked my hair,... no white bits/residue...

As for the shape of the curls, some of my hair really "stick to each other" and formed curls, the rest ... well, the rest also formed some curls but very lose and I got quit some frizz lol... Right now I am reading on the curly method to see if I can learn on CO and styling ...

Would love to hear some advice on products (cheap first) since most of the curly girls seem to be using deva curl or jesse curl products, which I don't know if they will work and I just don't want to waste money...

I will definitely keep posting and updating on the results of my experiment...

Thanks everyone....

You would not need a drying vinegar rinse if you choose products that are the right pH for skin and hair at 4.5 to 5.5, you cannot restore your skin's acid mantle with an acid rinse if you damage it with overly alkaline products, merely reset the pH. Ideally don't choose products until you have a diagnosis and have identified your hair properties, what is right for one dermatological condition is not right for another condition.

You are not using neat tea tree oil are you? It should be diluted if you have an inflammatory or irritant skin complaint. Agree don't go for Devacurl, they contain a lot of potentially irritant plant extracts and fragrances. I would be cautious of conditioner only washing if you have active seborrhoeic dermatitis, some get worsening.

You may struggle to find cheap combined with avoiding long lists of irritant fragrances, plant extracts and preservatives. My favourite range for scalp care is Komaza Care, many of the products are the right pH for skin and hair and most are CHG friendly. Gentle natural ingredients many of which are proven to be effective for skin and/ or hair, science-based to the point they actually offer detailed scalp and hair analysis. Apparently their customer service is excellent if you e-mail for advice and they do sell sample sizes.
http://www.komazahaircare.com/

More flexible would be to hunt down an online company selling sulphate free shampoo and conditioner 'bases' at a pH 4.5 to 5.5 - these will have few ingredients so much lower chance of irritants. Then doctor your own products, so adding oils such as tea tree or coconut or hydrolysed protein filler in small batches. Other option is sourcing products rich in healing, anti inflammatory aloe vera inner leaf gel such as JASON 84% (does contain silicones) or Aloe Pura (mainly Europe); someone on the Facebook Wavy Hair Community recently reported her SD cleared with Nature's Gate. Final option if you are diagnosed with SD is Regenepure shampoo which is sulphate free and contains ketoconazole which is an anti fungal, perhaps combining that with the Body Shop rainforest moisture conditioner, which gets good reviews and has a short ingredients list.
http://www.regenepure.com/our-ingredients.html/
http://www.thebodyshop.co.uk/bath-body-care/haircare/rainforest-moisture-conditioner.aspx

[meteor]

The research is largely on the fatty acids, so nobody yet knows what effect combinations will have, no doubt research is ongoing. If I had SD would avoid oils particularly rich in oleic, stearic and palmitic acids such as olive, avocado, sweet almond, shea butter and palm fruit oil. Even without SD but with a history of atopic eczema and contact dermatitis, I still limit (but not avoid) oleic acid (possibly comedogenic as well as irritant), and the omega-6s (pro inflammatory, competitive with the o-3s) but I do use stearic and palmitic acids because they are found in a healthy skin barrier.

If you have SD you might experiment with coconut oil, that is rich is lauric acid and *may* may anti microbial properties as well as being beneficial for porous hair especially. You might be best testing yourself, say half head tests. If you can strengthen your skin barrier/ acid mantle/ beneficial flora with nutrition and product selection (especially considering pH) you may find your skin is far more resistant to different oils and fatty acids anyway.
Wow! Great information! Thank you so much! :) I will be more selective about oils for my scalp now, just in case. I don't think I've ever had SD, but I've never tested and dandruff could be a symptom of SD. I suspect a mild form of SD is not necessarily easy to identify. Oleic acid (olive oil, avocado oil...) seems to be great for hair, so I assumed it must be great for scalp, too.

[Firefox7275]

Wow! Great information! Thank you so much! :) I will be more selective about oils for my scalp now, just in case. I don't think I've ever had SD, but I've never tested and dandruff could be a symptom of SD. I suspect a mild form of SD is not necessarily easy to identify. Oleic acid (olive oil, avocado oil...) seems to be great for hair, so I assumed it must be great for scalp, too.

The body is confusing: what is best for skin and hair is not the same, what is best to apply externally is not the same as the best choices for diet.

Oleic acid is not the best choice for skin, partly because many of us have too much in our sebum, partly because its pro inflammatory/ mildly irritating/ comedogenic. Stearic, palmitic and cholesterol are beneficial for skin itself, but I would not put shea butter or lanolin in my hair, too sticky. Not good for SD tho, can feed the malassezia.

[calmyogi]

I don't know if anyone answered this one for you, but I was reading through the posts, and I just wanted to add in that the JessiCurl products do work. They are pricey, and I believe her prices just went up, but they do work. I use her conditioners and really like them.

[arelrios]

I don't know if anyone answered this one for you, but I was reading through the posts, and I just wanted to add in that the JessiCurl products do work. They are pricey, and I believe her prices just went up, but they do work. I use her conditioners and really like them.

Thanks for the input... I haven't tried them since I am scared I will invest the money and what if they don't work? ... So far, I am happy with the routine in a sense that my hair feels nice ... no more white residue and the frizz is more manageable... I still haven't been able to get full curls (I might not even have those lol) but I can see the less I touch my hair, the wavier it gets, specially on the nape area...

For now I will have to work on my ends... they seem the straighter of all my hair... maybe is just leftovers of when I used to straighten them or maybe my hair is to coarse and just simply wont curl at the end....

I will keep experimenting... hopefully one day I figure the perfect routine... lol...