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TiffanieJean
April 9th, 2013, 05:06 AM
I don’t get it. I’ve tried everything I can think of to stop my hair from breaking off, and nothing seems to be working. I never had this problem until a couple years ago. I went all natural with hair products and reduced the amount of heat I use. I tried no heat methods for about 6 months and sleeping with my hair up, which caused the initial breakage in the middle of the back of my hair. I cannot wear my hair up while I sleep. I had a bad reaction to Rosemary Oil back in Sep. of last year and lost a lot of hair from that around the temples and crown area. I have tried to be gentle with my hair and it’s completely backfired on me so far. It seems like the more I try the more problems I have.

I’ve never colored my hair or done anything permanent like a perm or straightening treatment.

I did have a baby 3 years ago, and it seems like a lot of my problems started around that time.

I’ve tried a lot of no heat styling techniques, and I love almost all of them. Sock buns and cinnamon bun waves were a dream come true but the breakage was HORIBLE. That’s actually how I initially noticed the problem got about 80% of the damage I have… Sleeping with a loose cinnamon bun in. =(

New question - What do you use for protein treatments? I need to decide on what kind to use. If you currently of have ever tried CWC, how did you like it?


I use Giovanni’s Root 66 S&C. I have been using it for over a year. I wash my hair every 3 or 4 days. No brushing while wet, dry with a soft old T-Shirt, I use heat to style my hair 2 times a month average… I do blowdry my hair with the warm setting with a heat protectant during the winter. It’s finally getting a little warmer so I will be air drying for the most part now. Could it be that S&C that is causing my hair to become weak over time? Are there any ingredients that I should watch out for? I switch to Mill Creek’s Biotin S and Avalon Organics Biotin C every few washes and throw in or VO5’s Kiwi Lime Clarifier once a month or so. I do oil hair masks (Jojoba, Castor, Apricot Kernel and Tea Tree) about once a month. My hair is sensitive to protein.

I can’t wear my hair up in any way without problems. I can’t wear it down either… I’ve tried loose ponytails and buns (bands of a few kinds) - that causes the most problems. I’ve tried loose twist buns with spin pin’s and sectioning clips - my hair breaks off where the twist starts. Claw Clips have the same issues as pins. My hair will break off right where I have to twist it or where the claws grab the hair at the sides. I’ve tried side braids, and they seem to be the best option, but I still get breakage where the braid starts on the opposite side where it pull’s a tiny bit… What can I do? Why is my hair so weak?! It’s gotten to the point that my hair looks ragged. I’d say at least 1/3 of it is around shoulder length and the rest is 2 or 3 inches from hip length. The under layer is almost completely broken off to the shorter length. Upper layer looks decent and covers the breakage most of the time, but recently I have not been happy with my hair down at all because of the curl pattern on the shorter sections making bumps all over under the semi-straight weighed down long sections… UUUGH. I’m just venting now.

Any advice?



Also, sorry for the slow responses. My computer is not being corporative lately... I really appreciate all of the help. I have read it. I'll reply eventually.

bunnylake
April 9th, 2013, 06:04 AM
Have you tried coconut oil? Or olive oil? Those oils can actually penetrate the hair shaft (most others can't) and moisturize and strengthen the hair from the inside out.

WaitingSoLong
April 9th, 2013, 06:50 AM
There are so many things to consider...

Your diet. Do you eat enough protein? Fatty acids?

Even ONE use of a flat or curling iron can cause permanent damage. Consider the age of your hair, if it grows the average 6" a year, hair that is 18" long is 3 years old and ANYTHING you have done in those 3 years can be cumulative damage.

Damage cannot be "repaired". You can coddle it to reduce how fast it will deteriorate, but that is about it.

Brittle hair can be a sign of health problems, like thyroid issues.

I use tradition S&C, lots of cones and I blow dry my hair on warm settings (not hot) all the time (ok, a couple times a month). Product does not cause breakage for me, nor splits. But everyone's hair is different, so is their body chemistry. I don't use a heat protectant on m hair. They make my hair feel yucky.

CWC is a horrible thing for some people. There is a chemical reaction thing going on when you condition then wash then re-condition. Shampoo's that are S&C in one or have cones in them are the same as CWC. My hair feels very crunchy after a CWC. I don't use shampoos with cones in them for this reason. Some people's hair loves it, though.

Environment. Dry climates, etc. Oils do not moisturize, they seal in moisture. If you are oiling dry hair, you could be making your problem worse. I, personally, do not use oils. I have tried so many and my hair hates them. I finally gave up.

Sounds like you need the hair diagnostic tool. I no longer have the link, the one I had stopped working with the forum upgrade. Basically, you clarify your hair twice (make sure there are no cones in the shampoo you use, you can even use liquid handsoap) and let it air dry, then feel it. Depending on how it behaves can tell you if you are protein or moisture deficient.

My guess is you possibly need both.

As an experiment, you can deep clarify, then do a deep moisture/protein treatment. While you hair is still wet from the clarify, gently squeeze out as much water as you can. Glop on some mayo mixed 50/50 with your favorite conditioner and work it into hair throroughly. Put it in a bun or pile it on your head, cover with a shower cap and then a towel or snow beanie and let it set for 1-2 hours. Get back in shower and rinse rinse rinse. Keep rinsing! Then, when you are sure it is VERY rinsed, apply a normal amount of conditioner, work though to the ends and rinse again.

Good luck.

TiffanieJean
April 9th, 2013, 06:59 AM
I have a slight oil addiction. Moisture levels are good. Even the broken off sections are healthy. Just broken… My hair hates coconut oil, it turns to straw - too much protein retention. Olive Oil is too heavy. Jojoba works the best for me.

WaitingSoLong
April 9th, 2013, 07:04 AM
coconut oil does not have protein in it.

Broken hair is NOT healthy hair.

Perhaps it is time to try something other than oils for awhile, just to see :)

MiaBeth
April 9th, 2013, 07:18 AM
I second the extra protein/avoid oil suggestion -- I'm growing out highlights from last year that have caused massive breakage, and protein has helped reduced the problem. But, I've been trimming 1/4" a month to just get rid of this hair too. Humph.

TiffanieJean
April 9th, 2013, 07:33 AM
No, coconut oil doesn’t have protein in it. It does cause your hair to retain protein. I know that is a debate, but from my experiences it’s true. My hates the stuff. It turns to straw after I use it… I can’t use anything with egg’s for the same reason. Straight to straw after one use. Even a few hair products I have tried with keratin or a lot of wheat/soy protein do the same thing. Jojoba oil has the complete opposite effect. Smooth and shiny. My hair looks and feels healthy. It’s even growing well. I get about ¾’’ per month average. That’s why I’m so confused. I do a stretch test with shed hair in the shower every once in a while. It’s pretty much balanced. Just weak. I’ll skip the oils for a few months to see if it helps. Maybe I should try to go back to a semi-natural drugstore S&C. Just go SLS free and get some cones back in my hair.
I

TiffanieJean
April 9th, 2013, 07:35 AM
I second the extra protein/avoid oil suggestion -- I'm growing out highlights from last year that have caused massive breakage, and protein has helped reduced the problem. But, I've been trimming 1/4" a month to just get rid of this hair too. Humph.

What do you use for protein? I’ve tried a few things. My hair doesn’t seem to like it in any form. I think I can deal with dull straw hair if it doesn’t break off tho. That’s a fair trade.

goldloli
April 9th, 2013, 08:02 AM
I pretty much second everything waitingsolong said and so wont be typing up about cones, damage or whatever.

If your hair is breaking so easily it needs protein, if you're doing anything related to protein then you need to add moisture too. If it's not a health/diet problem then I'm inclined to think it's previous heat damage since pretty much the same happened to me... Including a lot of my under hair breaking where the twist bun starts. Also side braids are totally the only ones working atm even though there's breakage in the middle. My wearing around the house bun is a rather uncool but definitely damage sparing one of taking a soft scrunchie, making a loose low ponytail and pulling half of it through so you end up with a little loop. If it's previous heat damage then you need a long term maintenance routine of protein and moisture till it's grown out. Have you considered banding you hair to sleep or around the house? Just a couple down lower the length so you get the plus sides of loose hair but without the tangles.

I would give coconut oil another try, possible palm oil too. C/O helps retain protein although it wont add protein, some people, like myself hate protein at first and find it reacts quite like a protein but I've found I can reap the benefits by using as a prewash oiling, not used in conjunction with any protein treatments in the same week, followed by a regular moisturising dish.

Half asleep while writing please forgive if it sounds like babble

meteor
April 9th, 2013, 09:21 AM
TiffanyJean, I am very sorry to hear about such serious breakage. I've never heard of hair that cannot sustain any braiding and bunning and wearing down at all and just breaks off. Is your hair heavily processed? If so and this level of breakage happens all the time, you will simply need to baby it like crazy until you trim the damage off, unfortunately.

I agree with very good recommendations from WaitingSoLong and Goldloli.

My only addition would be: remember what worked for your hair before you went all-natural and bring those practices back. Did your hair like cones? Then bring them back! Some people's hair is so weak or so compromised by chemical processing that they can't avoid cones.

I would avoid heat and any handling beyond basic detangling and putting protective styles. I hope you only use fingers or wide-tooth combs while your hair is in this condition.

Did you try CWC? I think you are a prime candidate for this method. Since olive/coconut oil is too heavy for you as a leave-in, did you try heavy oiling before SC or CWC? Most people find that conditioner (on wet or dry hair) washes out even the heaviest oils quite effectively.

Hang in there! :) I don't think this level of breakage is normal at all and when you find your good routine and maintain it, your hair will thank you for it and will be much easier to maintain! :)

melusine963
April 9th, 2013, 10:07 AM
TiffanyJean, I am very sorry to hear about such serious breakage. I've never heard of hair that cannot sustain any braiding and bunning and wearing down at all and just breaks off. Is your hair heavily processed? If so and this level of breakage happens all the time, you will simply need to baby it like crazy until you trim the damage off, unfortunately.

^^This. Even after I found the LHC, my hair was so damaged from years of abuse that just had to keep trimming off most of my yearly growth. Gentle treatment and updos weren't enough to stop the weakened hair from splitting at the slightest provocation. I only really started noticing a difference after at least a year of firm adherence to LHC wisdom.

Naiadryade
April 9th, 2013, 10:23 AM
The heat styling is a huge red flag to me. With hair as fragile as yours, surely heat styling twice a month isn't helping... it may even be causing the problem. If I were you I would put down the irons right now and never pick them up again. As others have said, heat styling just once can cause permanent damage. If it can burn your skin, it's not going to make your hair any stronger, that's for sure. Twice a month is not infrequent. Think of how many times your ends have been cooked this way! Some people's hair can stand up to heat styling... because they have really strong, resilient hair. Not the case for most folks.

And remember that once your hair is damaged, it's damaged for good. The only options are to cut it off, or baby it until the virgin hair is long enough to cut it off.

Good luck!

spidermom
April 9th, 2013, 10:50 AM
My hair can't stand up to heat styling at all. I do blow-dry on warm near the scalp, cool on the length, and that's it for heat. Still, I get lots of split ends, and that may be why. I just don't know.

It really sounds like your hair needs protein. I like the Joico J-Pak Reconstructor. Follow protein treatments with moisture.

I also recently discovered Renpure Originals argan oil formula shampoo, conditioner, and oil leave-in treatment (blue bottles). I love what it has done for my hair. Before I was aware that my ends were very dry and nothing was helping. Now my ends feel just the same as the hair at my scalp - nice and smooth and well moisturized. I hope this helps my split ends problem!

Suze2012
April 9th, 2013, 12:53 PM
Avoid heat at all costs.

Have you tried anything which curlies usually use and like? We have dryer hair - it might help.

I'm pretty new here but I had a chunk of hair which always broke off several (like 6 inches or more shorter than the other layers near to it.
It was at the top behind my crown.
I have curly hair which is prone to dryness anyway but I didn't know this short 'chunk' of hair was there even until a hairdresser showed me it. (this was long before my LHC days).

I figured though that it would always be there..so hey..not much I could do.

I did stop heat of any kind about 5 years ago though.
I stopped getting highlights and stopped having trims.

When i eventually went back to a HD it was still there and shorter and i asked the HD not to touvh it and not cut but let it break as it didn't match the rest anyway.
I lived with it.

The most significant changes have been no heat and this last almost a year co washing.

However, I realised about two months ago that the rest of my hair had curl and moisture and that that part didn't and it was because I wasn't being meticulous enough with it. I am now and it is doing well and at the same length as the rest of my shorter layers.

Shampoo is awful for me. I can oil and deep treat but the next time I use sulphate poo I am back to square one.

Should it help (cos I am curly and a newb really) other things which dry me out are AVG, a conditioner to wash in which is too cleansing (Tresemme Naturals), too much oil disagrees with me except for an overnight treat...I also find the temperature at work all day affects how it behaves.

My hair does love glycerin & rosewater though...absolutely adores it just now but I'll see how it behaves if we ever get a summer (I live in the UK) as it could dry me out at that point.
It's just another thought for you to try maybe,,and cheap and natural too.

You will need to wait for the damage to go but for one no heat and being more meticulous with the worst parts might help.
I just used to wash, co and go.....not anymore!

bo-peep
April 9th, 2013, 09:08 PM
I'm watching this thread with interest as I'm having a similar problem with my hair. I've come to the conclusion that my hair needs protein (based on how my hair behaves when stretched - it stretches A LOT before breaking). I've gone through an incredible amount of stress in the past two years, didn't eat a very healthy diet, and just started menopause. My hair is ragged from breakage, but thankfully very thick (very similar to Spidermom's hair).

I'm curious - I understand I need to eat better and have already made a drastic change in my diet - but so many people have mentioned protein hair treatments in this thread... is using protein-based shampoo / conditioner enough to prevent further breakage? Will my hair absorb protein from whatever product I choose, making it stronger? As far as diet is concerned, it seems that eating better will only help the hair I'm currently growing and not the hair that already exists. Is that right?

Thanks in advance to all those kind people willing to share what they've learned with the rest of us. I appreciate your advice!

WaitingSoLong
April 10th, 2013, 05:38 AM
I'm curious - I understand I need to eat better and have already made a drastic change in my diet - but so many people have mentioned protein hair treatments in this thread... is using protein-based shampoo / conditioner enough to prevent further breakage? Will my hair absorb protein from whatever product I choose, making it stronger? As far as diet is concerned, it seems that eating better will only help the hair I'm currently growing and not the hair that already exists. Is that right?

I think you are pretty much right here. With old hair absorbing protein, it can also be lost. There is balance of protein and moisture hair must have, and that depends on your particular hair type. If you have hair that is damaged from long time sun exposure, bleach or heat, it will not retain much of anything for long. You basically determine what it needs, give it in the form of treatments or whatever, then try to retain it. Oils are used to help retain moisture. I am not sure about retaining protein. Oils can also be used to pull dyes from hair, not sure if that applies to you. Cones are also used to retain it. Cones only get a bad rap around here because they can coat your hair over time and dry it out if you don't clarify once in awhile.

Some have porous hair, some have non-porous hair. Porous hair readily absorbs and loses. Non-porous doesn't really want to do either, so if you have non-porous hair and it is protein deficient, you will have a harder time getting the protein into it.

Heat is applied to masks/deep treatment to open up the hair shaft to allow stuff in or out. By heat I mean a heat cap or a hot towel wrapped over the head. There is a porosity test where you take a strand of hair and put it in water and let it set. If it sinks, it is porous (because it has become soaked with water), if it floats, it is non-porous. I tried this and got mixed results and have decided I have combination hair. Probably a good idea to try several strands separately. I think you have to leave it for like a half hour or something. Sorry I cannot recall the details.

Maybe someone who know a bit more can chime in.

meteor
April 10th, 2013, 01:44 PM
I'm curious - I understand I need to eat better and have already made a drastic change in my diet ...... As far as diet is concerned, it seems that eating better will only help the hair I'm currently growing and not the hair that already exists. Is that right?
I often wondered about this. What you say is absolutely logical (only new growth should be affected by new diet), but I find that in practice diet affects ALL hair (even many years' old ends). When I was undernourished, my hair not only got thinner, but it broke off at the ends too and developed split ends! I'm guessing my own sebum production dropped or its quality dropped due to lower fatty acids intake. Mind you, my hair was long at the time, and yet the ends suffered from the diet, not JUST the roots.
I wonder if others had similar experiences.

I feel that healthy diet + gentle treatment & detangling are the most important things for growing healthy and long hair.

going gray
April 10th, 2013, 02:25 PM
This is a great thread, thanks for all the useful advice ladies.

Emichiee
April 10th, 2013, 02:32 PM
If hair breaks easily for no apparent reason while not looking damaged it is most likely an underlying health problem. I had the same happen to me with thyroid and hormone related issues. Fixing the problem is crucial.
It could also be a dietary problem. Like low stomach acid, small intestine bacterial overgrowth, IBS...the list goes on. These can cause your body to not absorb nutrients right.
Then there is the possibility of you lacking a very important Vitamin like D3, Zinc, Iron, Calcium etc.

My problems were a mix of all of these. Fixing them meant targeting my health. I changed my diet, helped my hormones balance with supplements and now I am tackling the gut issue. I have seen doctors, as well as treated myself.
My hair has improved much, I am only dealing with a small amount of damage at the ends right now. It may not be 100% but I am working on it. I hope to get to that "0 splits" level again one day :P

I write about these things a lot in my blog (sig) btw.

meteor
April 10th, 2013, 03:49 PM
If hair breaks easily for no apparent reason while not looking damaged it is most likely an underlying health problem. I had the same happen to me with thyroid and hormone related issues. Fixing the problem is crucial.
It could also be a dietary problem. Like low stomach acid, small intestine bacterial overgrowth, IBS...the list goes on. These can cause your body to not absorb nutrients right.
Then there is the possibility of you lacking a very important Vitamin like D3, Zinc, Iron, Calcium etc.

My problems were a mix of all of these. Fixing them meant targeting my health. I changed my diet, helped my hormones balance with supplements and now I am tackling the gut issue. I have seen doctors, as well as treated myself.

This! I absolutely agree!
I would look at your health and diet primarily, because the level of damage you described is pretty unusual even for weakened, chemically treated hair.

bo-peep
April 10th, 2013, 08:36 PM
Thanks to everyone for your helpful replies to my question - and to TiffanieJean for starting this thread. I have learned SO much from everyone!

Everyone who suggested a health issue is probably right - last year kicked my butt. Long story short - abscessed tooth took 7 months to diagnose correctly (about 7 rounds of different antibiotics and sinus surgery); my 27 year-old son had to have his foot amputated (cancer), finances are extremely tight (I'm supporting my son, his wife and 1 year old); I have a high-stress job and my boss is an a-hole; and my husband and I were separated (trying to work it out now). It's a wonder I still have ANY hair left! My boss is still the same, but the other things are slowly improving.

As a result of what I learned here, I've changed my diet completely from the crappy, over-processed, carb-rich foods I used to eat to lots of vitamin-rich healthy foods (been a life-long vegetarian so I try to pay attention to what I'm missing by not eating meat / fish). I'm focusing on getting enough protein in my diet and using protein-rich hair products. And like TiffanieJean, I'm trying to be very gentle with my hair until the damaged part can grow out. I love my long hair and besides - I'm really too much of a chicken to just chop it off!

Thanks again for the great advice!

WaitingSoLong
April 11th, 2013, 05:42 AM
Awww bo-beep I am so sorry to hear about your rough year :( I am almost crying thinking of your son and his foot. :cry:::hugs::

meteor
April 11th, 2013, 08:51 AM
Thanks to everyone for your helpful replies to my question - and to TiffanieJean for starting this thread. I have learned SO much from everyone!

Everyone who suggested a health issue is probably right - last year kicked my butt. Long story short - abscessed tooth took 7 months to diagnose correctly (about 7 rounds of different antibiotics and sinus surgery); my 27 year-old son had to have his foot amputated (cancer), finances are extremely tight (I'm supporting my son, his wife and 1 year old); I have a high-stress job and my boss is an a-hole; and my husband and I were separated (trying to work it out now). It's a wonder I still have ANY hair left! My boss is still the same, but the other things are slowly improving.
You are such a strong woman! My heart goes out to you for all the things you had to endure!
Look on the bright side. You are right when you say "it's a wonder I still have ANY hair left". You are lucky that all that stress hit your hair and not something much more vital. Stress absolutely leads to hair breakage, but it's reversible!
I'm glad you explained the bad patch you are going through, because it means that it's not just that your hair is naturally super-weak - it means it's RECOVERABLE. Your hair will get significantly better when you improve your health, when your stress levels go down or you learn to cope with stress better.


As a result of what I learned here, I've changed my diet completely from the crappy, over-processed, carb-rich foods I used to eat to lots of vitamin-rich healthy foods (been a life-long vegetarian so I try to pay attention to what I'm missing by not eating meat / fish). I'm focusing on getting enough protein in my diet and using protein-rich hair products.
Cutting out sugar, processed foods and simple carbs is excellent! You should be fine on good-quality vegetarian diet, especially if you eat enough eggs and dairy. If you can get hold of free-range eggs, I would go for that, because they are nutritionally richer and have way more omega-3. Quality fatty acids are no less important than proteins.


And like TiffanieJean, I'm trying to be very gentle with my hair until the damaged part can grow out. I love my long hair and besides - I'm really too much of a chicken to just chop it off!

Don't chop it off! If everything was awesome in your life, you were enjoying great health but you still had this breakage your whole life as a genetic issue, then it would be a different story.
Your hair will recover at least to some degree when you get healthier. Until then, baby it with oils, heavy conditioners and gentlest detangling. Whenever you want to cut, put it in a bun out of your way. I think you could be a good candidate for joining the "wear hair every day in a bun/updo" challenge on LHC forum. And please do not use any heat or chemical processing during this stage. Over time, when you take your hair down you'll start noticing how much stronger it is.
If after a few months of babying it, you can't stand it anymore and you don't see significant difference, you could still cut it, but by then you'll have some good quality growth already, and you'll be used to really taking care of your hair, which is a great skill to master.
Good luck to you! :) Everything will start improving if you consistently take care of your health!

bo-peep
April 11th, 2013, 08:01 PM
Thank you WaitingSoLong and Meteor for your kind words and warm thoughts - your encouragement is wonderful. I cry inside every time I see my son without a foot and wonder if this is just a horrible nightmare. He's coping way better than I think I would - I totally admire his strength. He got a prosthetic foot about 6 weeks ago and has been struggling to get it where it's comfortable to wear for more than an hour or two a day. He's excited today because he is starting a new job tomorrow morning. His old boss told him he'd keep his job open when he felt he could return to work, but my son is (was) a mechanic - which means standing, climbing, squatting, etc. He's not there yet, but maybe one day he will be. The new job is in a field he's interested in and wants to make a career out of, so maybe things are looking up for him finally.

Lots of great advice, meteor, thank you! I've been wearing my hair down (instead of bunning it) because I thought it would be easier on it. I'll try putting it up for a while so it won't get as tangly. Cutting it is not even an option for me... trims are fine and thanks to Feye's excellent tutorial, I can do that myself! Finding new healthy recipes to try has been fun - and challenging because I'm not a very good cook (haha!). I can learn, though!

I appreciate everyone's suggestions! Thanks!:D

Mesmerise
April 11th, 2013, 09:57 PM
Heat and my hair disagree very strongly! Heat damaged my hair more than anything else I've ever done to it (hmm except when my hair was breaking apart really badly... but at that time I worked out that the length had had at least 11 strong chemical procedures - dye, bleach, perm, straighten...etc). The thing is, I hardly ever straightened my hair. Maybe only once a month, if that! And yet, my hair was extremely damaged from it.

I managed to go two years heat free, and what a difference it made! Suddenly I could find hardly any splits... and then... 6 days in a row of having my hair crimped. Ugh. Suddenly my ends were all horrible again...(I used tons of heat protectant etc. didn't help...).

So I actually think that if your hair responds very badly to heat, that even twice a month is too much. Over time that damage builds up! Once damage has occurred you can't "fix" it. You can treat it in order to try to keep it as strong as possible... but the damage has been done.

jacqueline101
April 12th, 2013, 07:56 AM
Are you the short crown hairs aren't new growth? I thought I had breakage until further examination it was new growth.

bo-peep
April 12th, 2013, 11:50 AM
Are you the short crown hairs aren't new growth? I thought I had breakage until further examination it was new growth.

I've been wondering the same thing about the short hairs around the top of my head - the ones sticking out making me look crazy! Are they new hairs or broken hairs? How do you tell the difference??

Mesmerise - you have beautiful hair! What a lovely color!

I agree with you about "heat = damage". I let my hair air dry and always have; I haven't had any chemical treatments either because I know they can really damage hair (if not done properly or too often). I pretty much just let my hair "be" itself. I do braid it at night so no one gets tangled in it - me or the dogs. I've been stuck before when one of my really big dogs laid on my hair! Also, I have a (granddaughter) toddler at home, so I usually braid it when I'm playing with her.

KittyMeowMeow
April 12th, 2013, 11:57 AM
Using direct heat (blowdryers/flatirons) twice a month is waaaay too frequent. Try 1-4x/year max.

Heat abuse definitely caused damage and breakage for me.

If you must have straight hair every once in a while, do a rollerset or wrap set with a hooded dryer (indirect heat).

bo-peep
April 12th, 2013, 12:20 PM
If you must have straight hair every once in a while, do a rollerset or wrap set with a hooded dryer (indirect heat).

Or use a sock bun to make curls - I saw a girl do a tutorial on youtube that was awesome! Never tried it myself, but I was impressed by how beautiful her curls were.

TiffanieJean
April 18th, 2013, 01:57 PM
Or use a sock bun to make curls - I saw a girl do a tutorial on youtube that was awesome! Never tried it myself, but I was impressed by how beautiful her curls were.

I used to do sock buns a lot. I have a blog post on how I do them… Major breakage from it. Worse than anything else, so I had to stop. =(

I did cinnamon bun waves a lot after that, but right where the 1st twist is my hair breaks. =( x 2

TiffanieJean
April 18th, 2013, 02:16 PM
TiffanyJean, I am very sorry to hear about such serious breakage. I've never heard of hair that cannot sustain any braiding and bunning and wearing down at all and just breaks off. Is your hair heavily processed? If so and this level of breakage happens all the time, you will simply need to baby it like crazy until you trim the damage off, unfortunately.

I agree with very good recommendations from WaitingSoLong and Goldloli.

My only addition would be: remember what worked for your hair before you went all-natural and bring those practices back. Did your hair like cones? Then bring them back! Some people's hair is so weak or so compromised by chemical processing that they can't avoid cones.

I would avoid heat and any handling beyond basic detangling and putting protective styles. I hope you only use fingers or wide-tooth combs while your hair is in this condition.

Did you try CWC? I think you are a prime candidate for this method. Since olive/coconut oil is too heavy for you as a leave-in, did you try heavy oiling before SC or CWC? Most people find that conditioner (on wet or dry hair) washes out even the heaviest oils quite effectively.

Hang in there! :) I don't think this level of breakage is normal at all and when you find your good routine and maintain it, your hair will thank you for it and will be much easier to maintain! :)

I’ve never colored my hair or done anything long term like a perm or straightening treatment. There isn’t anything that I can really blame the breakage on which is why I’m so frustrated… I do everything I can think of. Finger comb, gently squeeze water out of my hair with an old cotton T-Shirt, stretch washing, and all of the basic gentle things. I did have a baby 3 years ago. It seems like a lot of my hair issues started after that.

Thank you for the advice on CWC. I don’t know a lot about it, but it’s worth a try. I’ll add a protein treatment to my routine too. I just have to figure out what kind now. Do you think Coconut oil before washing would be good enough? Or do you use a different product? I’m cutting heat out of my routine - not even going to blowdry on warm.

TiffanieJean
April 18th, 2013, 02:34 PM
Avoid heat at all costs.

Have you tried anything which curlies usually use and like? We have dryer hair - it might help.

I'm pretty new here but I had a chunk of hair which always broke off several (like 6 inches or more shorter than the other layers near to it.
It was at the top behind my crown.
I have curly hair which is prone to dryness anyway but I didn't know this short 'chunk' of hair was there even until a hairdresser showed me it. (this was long before my LHC days).

I figured though that it would always be there..so hey..not much I could do.

I did stop heat of any kind about 5 years ago though.
I stopped getting highlights and stopped having trims.

When i eventually went back to a HD it was still there and shorter and i asked the HD not to touvh it and not cut but let it break as it didn't match the rest anyway.
I lived with it.

The most significant changes have been no heat and this last almost a year co washing.

However, I realised about two months ago that the rest of my hair had curl and moisture and that that part didn't and it was because I wasn't being meticulous enough with it. I am now and it is doing well and at the same length as the rest of my shorter layers.

Shampoo is awful for me. I can oil and deep treat but the next time I use sulphate poo I am back to square one.

Should it help (cos I am curly and a newb really) other things which dry me out are AVG, a conditioner to wash in which is too cleansing (Tresemme Naturals), too much oil disagrees with me except for an overnight treat...I also find the temperature at work all day affects how it behaves.

My hair does love glycerin & rosewater though...absolutely adores it just now but I'll see how it behaves if we ever get a summer (I live in the UK) as it could dry me out at that point.
It's just another thought for you to try maybe,,and cheap and natural too.

You will need to wait for the damage to go but for one no heat and being more meticulous with the worst parts might help.
I just used to wash, co and go.....not anymore!

Thank you for all of the help. I think I’m going to give CWC or CO a try. I cut heat out the day I wrote this post up. Not that long ago, but it’s a start! Rosewater sounds good too. I'll gave to find some.

TiffanieJean
April 18th, 2013, 02:40 PM
I think you are pretty much right here. With old hair absorbing protein, it can also be lost. There is balance of protein and moisture hair must have, and that depends on your particular hair type. If you have hair that is damaged from long time sun exposure, bleach or heat, it will not retain much of anything for long. You basically determine what it needs, give it in the form of treatments or whatever, then try to retain it. Oils are used to help retain moisture. I am not sure about retaining protein. Oils can also be used to pull dyes from hair, not sure if that applies to you. Cones are also used to retain it. Cones only get a bad rap around here because they can coat your hair over time and dry it out if you don't clarify once in awhile.

Some have porous hair, some have non-porous hair. Porous hair readily absorbs and loses. Non-porous doesn't really want to do either, so if you have non-porous hair and it is protein deficient, you will have a harder time getting the protein into it.

Heat is applied to masks/deep treatment to open up the hair shaft to allow stuff in or out. By heat I mean a heat cap or a hot towel wrapped over the head. There is a porosity test where you take a strand of hair and put it in water and let it set. If it sinks, it is porous (because it has become soaked with water), if it floats, it is non-porous. I tried this and got mixed results and have decided I have combination hair. Probably a good idea to try several strands separately. I think you have to leave it for like a half hour or something. Sorry I cannot recall the details.

Maybe someone who know a bit more can chime in.

God info. How much damage can the sun do? I spend a lot of time outside in the summer. I use my hair like sunblock most of the time too (I‘m very pale). I wear it down and it’s like a shoulder/neck/upper back blanket…. Probably not the best idea I guess! What can I do about that? =/

ravenreed
April 18th, 2013, 02:45 PM
Your current routine has protein. My hair breaks more easily with protein so maybe try something without it?

ETA: Every product you listed has protein, from what I can tell. I think you have protein overload! Most 'natural' products have way too much of it for those of us who have protein-phobic hair. I think if you get off the protein, your hair should stop snapping so easily.

TiffanieJean
April 21st, 2013, 11:09 AM
Your current routine has protein. My hair breaks more easily with protein so maybe try something without it?

ETA: Every product you listed has protein, from what I can tell. I think you have protein overload! Most 'natural' products have way too much of it for those of us who have protein-phobic hair. I think if you get off the protein, your hair should stop snapping so easily.

That’s what I thought too… I’m so confused! The Giovanni S&C definitely does. I haven’t been using that for the last 2 weeks. I switched back to my old bottles of Nioxin. Hasn’t helped any. What S&C do you use?

ravenreed
April 21st, 2013, 11:40 AM
I CO with Suave Wild Cherry. However, any products that are free of proteins may help at this point. From what I can tell on the interwebz, your Nioxin might have protein too... take a look on the back and see. This page (http://www.curlynikki.com/2009/01/proteins-humectants-and-conesoh-my.html) has a list of what to look for.


That’s what I thought too… I’m so confused! The Giovanni S&C definitely does. I haven’t been using that for the last 2 weeks. I switched back to my old bottles of Nioxin. Hasn’t helped any. What S&C do you use?

TiffanieJean
April 21st, 2013, 12:08 PM
I CO with Suave Wild Cherry. However, any products that are free of proteins may help at this point. From what I can tell on the interwebz, your Nioxin might have protein too... take a look on the back and see. This page (http://www.curlynikki.com/2009/01/proteins-humectants-and-conesoh-my.html) has a list of what to look for.


Nioxin does too… Can’t escape the stuff! I’m going to start CO tonight. Just trimmed 3'' a few hours ago, so it's a good time to try.

Emichiee
April 21st, 2013, 04:40 PM
I did have a baby 3 years ago, and it seems like a lot of my problems started around that time.


Even the broken off sections are healthy. Just broken... Olive Oil is too heavy. Jojoba works the best for me.

Hormonal Imbalances

Hair does not break for no apparent reason with relatively good care, or even just average care. It is nothing you are doing wrong.
What you describe, that the hair looks healthy but still breaks is typical for this problem. It looks healthy because you have done nothing to cause weathering, damage...it is brittle because of the condition your body is in.

I started having the same problem in 2010 when my hormones were increasingly out of whack. I was put on thyroid medication, which only made things worse. After pregnancy, my hormones were pretty much sentenced to death... and when my first postpartum period brought me the gift of PMS from hell, plus hair loss and acne, I decided it was time to do something.

I got great relief from balancing my hormones with herbs. You can read about in on my blog, all recent topics are about that.
I am much better :), but not done. Since pregnancy my sensitive digestive system has not been doing so well. Hormones and digestive problems can affect each other. And for both to fully be in balance, I need to work on both problems. Which means that I am currently looking into digestion, gut healing, probiotics etc. and I will be seeing a gastroenterologist.

If you don't have a classic hormonal imbalance, it might have to do with thyroid hormones, prolactin, PCOS. All have to do with hormones, but these cases other parts of the body are affected too.

My suggestion would be to get checked thoroughly...- Endocrinology, if nothing is found there Gastroenterology maybe if you suspect something to only be slightly off there (I have mild bloating and intestinal discomfort only)
Also treat by symptoms, good results don't always mean there is no problem at all, so listen to your body too.

Last but not least I personally stay away from anything detrimental to my health and hormones. I eat a healthy diet, I avoid bad ingredients in foods and cosmetics (they contain endocrine disruptors and phytoestrogens), the pill, make sure I get all my vitamins and Minerals.

TiffanieJean
April 22nd, 2013, 12:07 PM
Emichiee -

Thank you for all of the info. I’m going to go to your blog. To be honest, I think I have had some hormone related issues since I had my son. I’ve kind of just ignored it. It’s easier to just think that I’m using the wrong shampoo! I don’t have insurance, so it would cost a small fortune to go to doctors for this… At first it was loosing a lot of hair and then I started getting very bad jaw line acne, which are both signs of increases testosterone - from what I have read. I never had either problem before. I joined TLHC and completely overhauled my hair routine, which helped with the hair loss (though now that the hair has grown out it just breaks off…). I cut almost all dairy out of my diet, which helped with the 75% of the acne problem. Obviously those were shot term fixes.

I think I’m going to have to work on my diet a bit more and look into hormone related problems. I started to take vitamins a few days ago. Women’s 1 a Day and a Healthy Hair, Skin, Nails version. I might try to add fish oil in… Vitamins tend to make me break out. Especially ones with too much Biotin like the Hair, skin and Nails that I have… Do you have that problem?

Emichiee
April 22nd, 2013, 03:23 PM
Hormonal Problems are very common after pregnancy. I am in touch with a bunch of moms online and many have similar problems.
Nowadays our hormones get out of balance so easily because of all the unnatural endocrine disruptors we are exposed to.
Dairy has cow hormones that make the baby cow grow and mature. Many people have problems with dairy in terms of hormones and acne. I have been avoiding it for a while now too. For me dairy makes my skin more "grainy", not acne really but I had small bumps that were not acne in the past. From my diet change alone my skins texture has really improved. But when my first postpartum period made its appearance a year later, I started having the acne and PMS issue. It was like I had good skin but with some acne...:confused:

There is a lot you can do without insurance. I think you should at least see some bettering with things like supplements and avoiding endocrine disruptors.

I have not taken Biotin supplements in a while, but supplements really can worsen acne, also because of the other ingredients. For some Gelatine causes break outs, or lactic acid. wheat and corn. Even salt or moisturizer can cause acne due to causing water retention in the skin that will in turn hinder your sebum from being excreted properly....
You can try egg yolks for Biotin :)

I update my blog with everything I learn, so feel free to check back once in a while, maybe I will have posted more answers useful to you. :flower:


Emichiee -

Thank you for all of the info. I’m going to go to your blog. To be honest, I think I have had some hormone related issues since I had my son. I’ve kind of just ignored it. It’s easier to just think that I’m using the wrong shampoo! I don’t have insurance, so it would cost a small fortune to go to doctors for this… At first it was loosing a lot of hair and then I started getting very bad jaw line acne, which are both signs of increases testosterone - from what I have read. I never had either problem before. I joined TLHC and completely overhauled my hair routine, which helped with the hair loss (though now that the hair has grown out it just breaks off…). I cut almost all dairy out of my diet, which helped with the 75% of the acne problem. Obviously those were shot term fixes.

I think I’m going to have to work on my diet a bit more and look into hormone related problems. I started to take vitamins a few days ago. Women’s 1 a Day and a Healthy Hair, Skin, Nails version. I might try to add fish oil in… Vitamins tend to make me break out. Especially ones with too much Biotin like the Hair, skin and Nails that I have… Do you have that problem?