When does hair need protein?

[gossamer]

Normally, I'd just go to the articles section for this, but the article I want (and know is out there somewhere!) can't be accessed while the server's still having a tantrum.

Usually, I avoid protein in all my products. In the past, it's contributed to lackluster, tangly hair that won't even let me separate sections for braids easily. Lately, however, my hair, especially my ends, has been feeling and acting strangely. They feel almost plasticy, like doll hair. It tangles a lot - matted sections like to develop in the sections of hair that grow closest to my temples, down at about bsl or waist. When I finger-comb, I don't just get sheds, I get breakage. :mad:

I wash usually about once a week. I live in a very humid place and always load up on conditioner when I wash. After my last wash, I heavily oiled and that seems to have taken care of the matted bits, but I'm still getting smaller tangled sections. Still managed to get some short breakage sections when I finger-combed, however. And my hair's kind of piecy because of all the oil.

Is the answer just more moisture, or should I get a second conditioner with some kind of protein in it?

The last time I clarified was a month ago. I remember the article I'm looking for says one diagnostic tool is to clarify and then let dry with no products to see what the problem is - but I can't remember what I should look for once I've done that step!

Thank you! :blossom:

[furnival]

Hair that needs protein goes stretchy and mushy-feeling when wet, from what I can recall. HTH!

[hafattack]

That mushy feeling may be what gossamer describes as "doll hair" but i am not an expert when it comes to protein and hair

[WaitingSoLong]

"doll hair" to me is brittle and stiff.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to clarify REALLY well and maybe chelate. Tangly hair and weird ends is always a need to deep clarify for my hair.

[WaitingSoLong]

Oh and if you want to do the clarify you can follow with a deep treatment with added eggs and mayo (yes, eww) but that would help with putting moisture back in and protein if needed.

[gossamer]

Nope, it's definitely not mushy! I'm thinking Barbie doll hair, kind of too slick and artificial. Make any more sense?

[furnival]

Nope, it's definitely not mushy! I'm thinking Barbie doll hair, kind of too slick and artificial. Make any more sense?

Do you use silicones? My hair feels plasticky with 'cone build-up...

[gossamer]

Oh and if you want to do the clarify you can follow with a deep treatment with added eggs and mayo (yes, eww) but that would help with putting moisture back in and protein if needed.

Yeah, I should definitely clarify and see if that does anything. The question then is if I just use my normal conditioner (not a great one, but one of the few I've found that doesn't have protein) or find something else to use afterwards.

Chelating uses club soda, right? Hmm, I wonder if I can find that here.

The eggs and mayo sound super gross, but may that's because mayo in Taiwan is usually this scary goopy sweet stuff. As I recall, coconut milk has protein in it too, right?

[gossamer]

Do you use silicones? My hair feels plasticky with 'cone build-up...

Sadly, it's a choice between cones or protein as I haven't found a protein-free cone-free conditioner here. Since I wash only once a week, I didn't think I'd have too much buildup again already.

But it really sounds like I need to clarify and see. Should I just clarify and not use any conditioner afterwards?

[furnival]

Sadly, it's a choice between cones or protein as I haven't found a protein-free cone-free conditioner here. Since I wash only once a week, I didn't think I'd have too much buildup again already.

But it really sounds like I need to clarify and see. Should I just clarify and not use any conditioner afterwards?

That's what I'd do. At least you'd know then if your problems are caused by buildup from your conditioner.

[Long_hair_bear]

I do a protein treatment once every two months. Its just something I have to do sparingly.

[WaitingSoLong]

You can chelate with lemon juice. I buy chelating shampoo but that may not be available in your location.

Skip the mayo. Just try conditioner, eggs and maybe honey.

[LadyCelestina]

Today I was dealing with some wonkiness /rought,tangly,not shiny/ on the ends.I used a serum that's mainly protein + some cone low on the list with water and it helped them a lot! So I guess that's how my hair tells me it's time for a bit of protein.
You say you have a product with protein on hand,how about using a teeny bit on just one strand and see what happens? YMMV,but in my case clarifying,when in fact the hair lacks moisture or protein,makes it much worse.

ETA: Just read you don't have a product with protein on hand right now...I'm sorry my reply is not helpful then,unless you by any chance can borrow it from somebody.My apologizement :)

[gossamer]

You can chelate with lemon juice. I buy chelating shampoo but that may not be available in your location.

Skip the mayo. Just try conditioner, eggs and maybe honey.

Lemon juice? I have that in my fridge. Perfect!

I'm thinking clarify with baking soda, then use diluted lemon juice as the acid rinse?

[gossamer]

Today I was dealing with some wonkiness /rought,tangly,not shiny/ on the ends.I used a serum that's mainly protein + some cone low on the list with water and it helped them a lot! So I guess that's how my hair tells me it's time for a bit of protein.
You say you have a product with protein on hand,how about using a teeny bit on just one strand and see what happens? YMMV,but in my case clarifying,when in fact the hair lacks moisture or protein,makes it much worse.

I don't have any conditioner with protein on hand, but it seems like 95% of the conditioners at the drugstore and grocery store have protein in them, so I can pick one up and try a section like you said.

I'll give clarifying a try first, I think. It's never made my hair worse before...

[ravenreed]

When ever my hair is at all weird, I add about a teaspoon of baking soda to some water, and add that to my shampoo. Most of the time it takes care of the problem. I don't even need to worry about extra conditioning after, I just make sure to follow with my normal conditioner, and then an acidic rinse. Since I normally CO, I think that is just my hair's way of letting me know it's time for a good scrub.

[gossamer]

When ever my hair is at all weird, I add about a teaspoon of baking soda to some water, and add that to my shampoo. Most of the time it takes care of the problem. I don't even need to worry about extra conditioning after, I just make sure to follow with my normal conditioner, and then an acidic rinse. Since I normally CO, I think that is just my hair's way of letting me know it's time for a good scrub.

Thanks for your input, ravenreed!

[WaitingSoLong]

Lemon juice? I have that in my fridge. Perfect!

I'm thinking clarify with baking soda, then use diluted lemon juice as the acid rinse?

I have no idea! I just read it recently here somewhere....hmm I looked I cannot recall which thread sorry.

[spidermom]

Baking soda clarifying followed by diluted lemon juice rinse sounds about perfect.

I've seen various tests for protein/moisture around the Internet.

[misspurdy06]

"When does hair need protein?" After a good workout!;) hehe

[anitacs9101]

Here's a repost of the article you're talking about:

http://thenaturalmane.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/whats-wrong-with-my-hair-hair-diagnostic-tips/

[gossamer]

Here's a repost of the article you're talking about:

http://thenaturalmane.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/whats-wrong-with-my-hair-hair-diagnostic-tips/

:heart: :heart:

[WaitingSoLong]

Here's a repost of the article you're talking about:

http://thenaturalmane.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/whats-wrong-with-my-hair-hair-diagnostic-tips/


I had followed these steps not too long after joining here. I had never shampoo'd my hair and not conditioned before because I CANNOT get a comb through it at all if I don't. It felt so icky and chunky and straw-like...until it dried. I was amazed at how soft and nice it was! I had thought my hair was damaged and ruined and it wasn't! I still like to never got it detangled, though. But this is how I figured out what clarifying really was and that I needed it. :)

[gossamer]

I had followed these steps not too long after joining here. I had never shampoo'd my hair and not conditioned before because I CANNOT get a comb through it at all if I don't. It felt so icky and chunky and straw-like...until it dried. I was amazed at how soft and nice it was! I had thought my hair was damaged and ruined and it wasn't! I still like to never got it detangled, though. But this is how I figured out what clarifying really was and that I needed it. :)

Back to report that I clarified last night with baking soda in solution and then used diluted lemon juice as my acidic rinse. My hair didn't clump up or turn straw-like as I did so, thankfully. No conditioner, just wrapped it in a t-shirt for about half an hour and let it drip dry after that until just damp, after which I braided it for bed. It's almost dry now (morning) and far less tangly, so that's my first success. Still feels a little "rough" which may be, according to that article, a protein issue.

Also, after clarifying, I realized it's been more like two months since I last did this, rather than one. Tells you how crazy the past two months have been for me, doesn't it?

Since I know my hair doesn't like protein a whole lot, I'm going to go out and get a small bottle of a standard conditioner with silk protein/keratin, use it once and then follow it with my usual moisturizing conditioner.

[earthnut]

Hair needs protein when it's super soft, limp, and straighter than usual (if it's not normally straight).

I agree it sounds like the OP has buildup. She definitely doesn't need protein.

[Vanilla]

Have you ever tried cassia?

It helps immensely with the tangles, but it requires moisture afterwards. I use a heavy mineral oil after doing a cassia treatment. I highly recommend nightbloomings mix, as it has other herbal conditioners in the mix too.

[allycat]

I found the whole protein analysis sort of confusing until recently, when an inadvertent experiment helped me figure it out.

The ends of my hair had been very dry feeling, so I trimmed a bit, and then bought a new deep treatment conditioner (heavy on the protein I discovered later), and oh man, they were so much worse! Scraggly, dry, coarse. I was so confused, maybe I had to trim again??

But after some research (thank you LHC) it sounded a lot like protein overload. I bought a new conditioner with no protein, very moisturizing. Did an SMT and the transformation was... amazing. My hair was very soft and the ends looked beautiful. To think I almost trimmed again. In fact, I wonder how many times I have trimmed scraggly ends that simply needed some deep moisturizing, and to avoid protein.

Anyway, it was good to finally figure out that at least my particular hair doesn't do well with protein. I guess you just experiment carefully.

[alabaster]

I found the whole protein analysis sort of confusing until recently, when an inadvertent experiment helped me figure it out.

The ends of my hair had been very dry feeling, so I trimmed a bit, and then bought a new deep treatment conditioner (heavy on the protein I discovered later), and oh man, they were so much worse! Scraggly, dry, coarse. I was so confused, maybe I had to trim again??

But after some research (thank you LHC) it sounded a lot like protein overload. I bought a new conditioner with no protein, very moisturizing. Did an SMT and the transformation was... amazing. My hair was very soft and the ends looked beautiful. To think I almost trimmed again. In fact, I wonder how many times I have trimmed scraggly ends that simply needed some deep moisturizing, and to avoid protein.

Anyway, it was good to finally figure out that my particular hair doesn't do well with protein. I guess you just experiment carefully.

What conditioner did you end up buying that solved the problem? I am always looking for new conditioners without protein.....

[allycat]

I stood there studying ingredients lists for ages, they probably thought I was so weird! But it's hard to find something with no proteins and also no cones. I got the Suave Naturals Sweet Pea and Violet. Love love love.

[Anje]

Gossamer, for what it's worth (I see this started a few days ago), this is the description of hair that needs protein vs hair that needs moisture which makes the most sense to me. (http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html#.UVCP2BxW7VM)

For a protein treatment using hydrolyzed proteins (size seems to be important, though what works best seems to vary by protein source (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html)), I've seen LHCers report excellent results from diluting about 30ml of low-sodium soy sauce in 250ml water, then pouring it through freshly shampooed hair. Leave it for a while, rinse out, condition. Expect a little dryness after a protein treatment.

[earthnut]

All suave naturals conditioners except coconut are protein free. And dirt cheap too!

[Naiadryade]

Gossamer, for what it's worth (I see this started a few days ago), this is the description of hair that needs protein vs hair that needs moisture which makes the most sense to me. (http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html#.UVCP2BxW7VM)

For a protein treatment using hydrolyzed proteins (size seems to be important, though what works best seems to vary by protein source (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html)), I've seen LHCers report excellent results from diluting about 30ml of low-sodium soy sauce in 250ml water, then pouring it through freshly shampooed hair. Leave it for a while, rinse out, condition. Expect a little dryness after a protein treatment.

Thanks for those links, Anje! After stretching and carefully observing several shed hairs, I think I have actually tipped myself over the balance and need a little protein. If I don't have low-sodium soy sauce, do you think actual tamari would work as well, or are its proteins still too large? Or maybe Bragg's Liquid Aminos would be a better choice?

[earthnut]

Liquid aminos are best actually, than any soy sauce/tamari. Liquid aminos is hydrolyzed soy. Soy sauce has a mix of stuff, not all fully hydrolyzed.

Gelatin is also an excellent protein treatment, very powerful. And it's odorless unlike aminos/soy sauce. Dissolve Gelatin in enough boiling water to lightly coat a spoon, then let it cool until you can apply it (it'll still be warm). Gelatin is hydrolyzed collagen.

Different hair likes different proteins. So one might work better for you.

[Anje]

Thanks for that, Earthnut! I've educated myself on the protein thing largely because I usually need to avoid it for my own hair. I once bought Suave coconut conditioner (since it seemed to be vastly preferred by so many for CO washing), and found my hair going unmanageably crazy about 1/3 of the way into the bottle. So most of my advice is from others' reports, not my own experience!

[Naiadryade]

Thanks, earthnut! Braggs is very commonly found amongst the hippie folk I run with, so that's really easy. I'm going to use some next time I wash my hair. Normally I've been dealing with very dry hair, so if my new regimen has me so moisturized that I need a little protein on occasion, I'm not going to complain!!

[gossamer]

Gossamer, for what it's worth (I see this started a few days ago), this is the description of hair that needs protein vs hair that needs moisture which makes the most sense to me. (http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html#.UVCP2BxW7VM)

For a protein treatment using hydrolyzed proteins (size seems to be important, though what works best seems to vary by protein source (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html)), I've seen LHCers report excellent results from diluting about 30ml of low-sodium soy sauce in 250ml water, then pouring it through freshly shampooed hair. Leave it for a while, rinse out, condition. Expect a little dryness after a protein treatment.

Thank you, Anje, that makes more sense to me! And of course I already have soy sauce in my kitchen. :)