Work dress codes regarding hair/beards?

[woolyleprechaun]

Ooooh, fuming right now!:mad: but looking for advice and anecdotes...
DH has a beard. Not a huge, bushy thing, but around 1-2 inches long. He's a chef at a care home and is getting some serious grief about it, and I just dont think its right. In fact, I think its disgustingly discriminatory. The issue has only arisen as the matron has a strong personal dislike for facial hair and has been harassing him about it looking 'nasty' 'unhygenic' and even saying its making him look like a 'tramp'.:( She even leaves notes in his diary telling him it needs to be cut, but she has no real authority to say so.
Recently a hair was found in soup apparently, and she has launched an even more vicious attack on the poor old beard, accusing it of providing the offending hair. I doubt it ever existed :rolleyes:
In defence of the hubby's face fur, I told him to explain that if hygene was an issue, he would happily wear a beard net (seen as her only proffessional problem with it was food hygene related). She stll wasn't happy, supprise supprise.:mad:
NOW she has formally compained about it to the boss and the buisnesses' 'Partners', and he was called into the office to discuss the issue. The Boss has said that he has no personal problem with the beard, but as the powers that be have become involved, it has to be addressed. He gave DH two pieces of paper- one a generic guideline print-off for companies' dress codes and their rights when inforcing them (saying they have the right to demand a 'clean shaven' look if desired) and another specific to DH's employers, that basically just says the standard no jeans/ trainers etc thing, and that employees must be 'well groomed'- but nothing specific to facial hair.
We both feel quite hurt and victimised by this. Can a company just randomly decide what looks smart or not, without setting it in stone? Is that not discriminatory? Its a very neat beard, and very well cared for (I should know- I do it :p) and its clear that this has arisen purely from the matron's personal dislike of beards.
Sooooo wise folk of the LHC, what do you think? What should we do? Have any of you ever had a similar problem with people taking a dislike to your hair, and trying to pass it off as a hygene thing, or some such rubbish? Looking forwards to replies :D

[Kaelee]

I don't know what to do or what is allowed...but I do know that companies get away with way more than they should.

This is a topic that is a real thorn in my side. Everytime I hear about women being allowed long hair but men having to cut theirs, women being allowed earrings but men having to remove them (both things happened to DF unfortunately), I can't help but think it's SEXIST, discriminatory and disgusting. In fact, it annoys me SO MUCH that I try to avoid businesses that I know have these practices (to what extent I can) and go out of my way to patronize businesses that I know do not have these practices.

[Khristopher]

I don't have any advice really but I feel sorry for you two. It's so unfair! Women can wear hair in a net but men can't? It's ridiculous. These kind of things drive me mad. I hope someone here knows better about this, until then I wish he can keep his beard intact. Good luck!

[Bagginslover]

I used to work where food hygeine was an issue (supermarket meat counter), and I'm quite surprised that he isn't already required to wear a beard net to be honest-all our bearded and moustached employees were. I would err on the side of caution, and get, or at least request from the company (in writing), a beard net. If one is not supplied, you can then quite rightly blame the company if and further hairs are found, as they failed to provide the neccisary PPE. Don't offer to shave the beard, or to even cut it, do it is thats what your hubby wants to do, but do not mention it to the company at all. Bear in mind that if he does shave it off, the company can ask that he not regrow it on company time, he wound have to regrow during time off so that he wouldn't go through the 'scruffy' stage whilst at work.

I would though, strongly advise you contact CAB, for their advise (its free). They will be able to tell you definitively whether he can be made to shave against his will, and what his rights are in a matter like this.

[jeanniet]

I see the loose hair point (my son has facial hair ranging from goatee to beard, depending on how often he shaves), but a net should be adequate for that. Many Sikh men wear beard nets on a regular basis. It does sound like this whole issue has arisen from a personal dislike of facial hair, but if there is a company policy I'm not sure there's much you can do except express his willingness to do what's necessary (wear a net). It's discriminatory, but maybe not legally considered discrimination in this case, KWIM?

[Lady Mary]

It all seems unfair to me but I've worked places and been places that disallowed beards specifically, but that was in the states. Might be a different situation.

[EtherealDoll]

It's not unfair. Cooks are supposed to cover all the hair when cooking. I'm surprised he wasn't required to wear a beard net, female cooks are required to wear hair nets unless their hair is a very short cut. And I doubt that matron would have had problems with him if he wore a beard net right away. And many people would get totally disgusted if they see a "hairy" person cook something for them. That's why there's a saying "The best cook is a bald cook".

[woolyleprechaun]

It's not unfair. Cooks are supposed to cover all the hair when cooking. I'm surprised he wasn't required to wear a beard net, female cooks are required to wear hair nets unless their hair is a very short cut. And I doubt that matron would have had problems with him if he wore a beard net right away. And many people would get totally disgusted if they see a "hairy" person cook something for them. That's why there's a saying "The best cook is a bald cook".
I think the reason its unfair is that their issue is NOT with hygene, as they have stated that they do not want him to wear a hairnet as it 'looks daft'. If it was a purely hygene motivated issue, they would have stated from the begining that he must wear a hairnet. His beard is short, and sheds incredibly little compared to, say, a woman with a bob's hair. Its the fact that they are now demanding it goes as it 'looks trampy/scruffy' when there is nothing in the dress code that specifically mentions facial hair.
I do think its very sexist, the way these companies work. I have a male friend with collar length hair who is made to wear it tied back for work (or cut it) when the women with longer hair don't have to. Very odd.
DH doen't like to shave as he has a genetic condition which makes him grow benign tumours, some on his face. Its virtually impossible to shave around the things without doing him serious damage.
BTW, we live in a VERY hairy household, and none of us have ever encountered a hair in our food. We are careful with such things :)

[woolyleprechaun]

I don't know what to do or what is allowed...but I do know that companies get away with way more than they should.

This is a topic that is a real thorn in my side. Everytime I hear about women being allowed long hair but men having to cut theirs, women being allowed earrings but men having to remove them (both things happened to DF unfortunately), I can't help but think it's SEXIST, discriminatory and disgusting. In fact, it annoys me SO MUCH that I try to avoid businesses that I know have these practices (to what extent I can) and go out of my way to patronize businesses that I know do not have these practices.
Im sorry you've had first hand experience of this :( Your poor friend! I hate that sexism just isn't considered when its a man in question.... I get what you mean! Grrr.

[goldloli]

I say just send him to work with a beard net. Anyone that says anything after that, you know is just based on appearance and you can blame her for initiating the victimization. A 'no beards' rule can be objectively justified and they have every right to impose it, however wearing a hairnet covers the issue of hygiene so any further issues are just based on appearance. The fact this was never a problem until she took a disliking and also if they request him to shave even after wearing a net would give him grounds for discrimination. Although its pretty common to hire someone for the way they look, firing people over looks, especially after changing rules is dodgy ground and i don't think employers would take that risk. But yes please wear a beard net around food, we all know how many hairs shed a day even if you dont find any in your food.

Tbh I don't think it's fair for short haired men and women to be without hairnets while longer haired people are made to wear them. Everyone should be made to wear them since everyone sheds.

[woolyleprechaun]

Tbh I don't think it's fair for short haired men and women to be without hairnets while longer haired people are made to wear them. Everyone should be made to wear them since everyone sheds.


Absoloutely. I wear a hairnet at home when cooking, or at least a hat. I think it's fair to make sure all rules imposed are inforced with everyone. Theres no room for argument then, eh?

[In2wishin]

I have no issue with dress codes in place for hygiene or safety reasons. I used to work in a place where hair had to be restrained, the only jewelry allowed was a watch and a wedding band type ring (any piercings that could not be removed had to be covered with a bandaid or medical tape). If you were in the production room all long ponytails had to be tucked under a cap or pinned up so it wouldn't get caught in machinery. All made sense. Not allowing the option of a beard net does not. I agree with others. He should start wearing a beard net rather than shave. It eliminates the hygiene issue and then go from there.

BTW: I never understood how a little paper cap stuck on top of the head is considered a hair restraint and is OK for short haired people, but long haired need to wear a hairnet. A secure ponytail holds the hair much better because you can trap almost all hair in it. Those little caps hold nothing.

[Kaelee]

I have no issue with dress codes in place for hygiene or safety reasons. I used to work in a place where hair had to be restrained, the only jewelry allowed was a watch and a wedding band type ring (any piercings that could not be removed had to be covered with a bandaid or medical tape). If you were in the production room all long ponytails had to be tucked under a cap or pinned up so it wouldn't get caught in machinery. All made sense. Not allowing the option of a beard net does not. I agree with others. He should start wearing a beard net rather than shave. It eliminates the hygiene issue and then go from there.

BTW: I never understood how a little paper cap stuck on top of the head is considered a hair restraint and is OK for short haired people, but long haired need to wear a hairnet. A secure ponytail holds the hair much better because you can trap almost all hair in it. Those little caps hold nothing.

What kind of machinery? That rule sounds a bit stupid, wrist watches and wedding bands CAN and DO cause serious accidents (of the hand and finger removing sort) around machinery. I'm a machinist (and also an health and safety committee member). I wear all my piercings, and a short necklace, but no rings/bracelets/long sleeves.

If my ears get caught in the machine, I'm already doing something wrong and a piercing is the least of my worries at that point.

People 'get away with' watches and wedding bands...my job is not particularly hazardous though, compared to many machinist jobs, so they often look the other way on wedding rings.

[humble_knight]

It's not unfair. Cooks are supposed to cover all the hair when cooking. I'm surprised he wasn't required to wear a beard net, female cooks are required to wear hair nets unless their hair is a very short cut. And I doubt that matron would have had problems with him if he wore a beard net right away. And many people would get totally disgusted if they see a "hairy" person cook something for them. That's why there's a saying "The best cook is a bald cook".

That must be an eastern European saying because I've never heard of it. Incidentally, two of our most popular tv chefs are hairy :

http://i47.tinypic.com/14cembd.jpg

The loveable Hairy Bikers! No hairs in the food they prepare! What is happening to woolyleprachaun's partner is plain old discrimination against beards!

@wooly: I've seen this a lot in the NHS, but prejudice against men wanting 'long hair' of some sort. Give your man a notebook and tell him to jot down everyone who wears their hair in a ponytail, or loose hair, including the days they worked with such a hairdo. If that matron tries it on again, he has evidence to prove she is not taking notice of other co-workers who are breaking the dress code.

[Natalia]

Im sorry DH's work is being such a pain about this. As he is willing to wear a net i dont see how they have any right to demand anything more than that. I mean check out any orthodox jewish food prep service slaughter house, kitchen, ect... theyve got way more facial hair going on and they are safe and sanitary. A sneeze is of more health danger than his beard yet tot hey make everyone wear a mask?

[In2wishin]

What kind of machinery? That rule sounds a bit stupid, wrist watches and wedding bands CAN and DO cause serious accidents (of the hand and finger removing sort) around machinery. I'm a machinist (and also an health and safety committee member). I wear all my piercings, and a short necklace, but no rings/bracelets/long sleeves.

If my ears get caught in the machine, I'm already doing something wrong and a piercing is the least of my worries at that point.

People 'get away with' watches and wedding bands...my job is not particularly hazardous though, compared to many machinist jobs, so they often look the other way on wedding rings.

It was a spice company. We ground, mixed, packaged, and sold herbs, spices, and seasonings. The jewelry restriction was from the FDA, not OSHA, because earrings could fall off or stones could fall out into the product and bacteria can hide in the settings (which is why a plain band was OK). The "put your ponytail up" was the only machinery safety rule, and that was because someone with a waist length pony braid got it caught in a bottling machine when they bent down to pick something up (no injury, just a bad headache)

[In2wishin]

That's why there's a saying "The best cook is a bald cook".

I haven't heard that one before :D I have heard "never trust a skinny cook".

[Alun]

In the UK the only law that can help you is Article 10 of the European Human Rights Act, which is supposed to guarantee the right to self expression. This should in theory prevent employers from controlling employees hairstyles, beards, etc., but you are up against elderly conservative judges who may well refer to domestic precedents unless you have a lawyer who pushes the EU law. Not all lawyers are prepared to really push their client's case either. Naturally, a beard net is a legitimate requirement in food preparation.

Of course, this only comes in as a way to sue for damages after you get fired, but it is important to record everything, as one person already said.

In the US, the situation is a lot worse. Washington DC has a Human Rights Act that covers 'hair style'. The entire rest of the US has no laws that would help, unless you are a Native American [ETA: But they usually can't grow a beard!] or can claim religious grounds.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

[Kaelee]

It was a spice company. We ground, mixed, packaged, and sold herbs, spices, and seasonings. The jewelry restriction was from the FDA, not OSHA, because earrings could fall off or stones could fall out into the product and bacteria can hide in the settings (which is why a plain band was OK). The "put your ponytail up" was the only machinery safety rule, and that was because someone with a waist length pony braid got it caught in a bottling machine when they bent down to pick something up (no injury, just a bad headache)

Ah, the good old FDA. Because bandaids (which absorb crud) won't EVER fall off but properly secured high quality, non-pourous jewelry is surely a bacteria factory.

[jeanniet]

You know, since he is wearing the beard due to a medical condition, he might be able to have his doctor write a letter on his behalf stating that the beard is necessary to prevent infection, etc. After all, if shaving causes him injury, it stands to reason that, er...unpleasant bits might potentially be shed. Seems like it would make more sense to let the poor man keep his skin intact and wear the darn net.

[Kaelee]

You know, since he is wearing the beard due to a medical condition, he might be able to have his doctor write a letter on his behalf stating that the beard is necessary to prevent infection, etc. After all, if shaving causes him injury, it stands to reason that, er...unpleasant bits might potentially be shed. Seems like it would make more sense to let the poor man keep his skin intact and wear the darn net.

I agree with this!!!

And Alun, I'm so glad that the UK has such a law, even if it doesn't help much. I think the US is really far behind the UK on a lot of social issues.

[DancingQueen]

I am not sure wether it is allowed or not, but I do think it sounds strange. I think the companies have a rigt to have a dress code, like good hygiene for example. I can't wear my hair so it covers my name tag for example - which means I have to wear it short, or wear it up/back. And I have to dress fairly fashionable, and keep my shoes clean. But I don't think they can literally dictate how you cut and wear your hair, and if they can, it should be in your contract.

[Swissmiss2584]

First off I think he should complain to the boss if she was name calling. I'm pretty sure name calling is unacceptable and demeaning in the work place and should not be tolerated. Second he should explain why he wears a beard. Not just because he likes it but because it covers a medical condition. She is being rude and shouldn't win this war.

[bekstamonkey]

Maybe she's indignant that she's gotta shave her face every day, so he should too? LOL :p

On a serious note, that is ridiculous. Particularly considering the medical condition. Sounds like she's got a vendetta going! I agree with other folks, take notes on other peoples' breaches, wear a beard net to show he's not inflexible and willing to comply with health standards, and try and get a medical certificate to give to superiors. From what you said, sounds like the only reason they're really getting on his case is because of this one control freak of a woman.

[woolyleprechaun]

That must be an eastern European saying because I've never heard of it. Incidentally, two of our most popular tv chefs are hairy :

http://i47.tinypic.com/14cembd.jpg

The loveable Hairy Bikers! No hairs in the food they prepare! What is happening to woolyleprachaun's partner is plain old discrimination against beards!

@wooly: I've seen this a lot in the NHS, but prejudice against men wanting 'long hair' of some sort. Give your man a notebook and tell him to jot down everyone who wears their hair in a ponytail, or loose hair, including the days they worked with such a hairdo. If that matron tries it on again, he has evidence to prove she is not taking notice of other co-workers who are breaking the dress code.


All the advice here is fantastic! Its very comforting to speak to poeple who do not have beard prejudice :) I simply had to quote this post because it has THE HAIRY BIKERS!!! You know, I didn't think of them till now. I would eat anything they cooked, regardless of how their hair was worn in the process; they are adorable and pretty much the only celebrity chefs I like :D I have promptly forwarded the pic to the hubby ;)
As a lot of people have pointed out (thanks!) the matron' name calling was out of order. She has called him a 'tramp' and such in front of witnesses, and we plan to politely remind the boss of this at some point. How does one wear a beard net? Is it secured to the ears? *totters off to find her Sikh chef friend* :D

[Bagginslover]

I would still advise you approach Citizens advice, with a copy of your husbands contract fot hem to look over. The service is free, and they'll be able to tell you where you stand legally.

Slightly OT, but you mentioned your husband has a genetic condition with begnign skin tumours....not BHD by any chance? It's something I've recently been diagnosed with, and I know its pretty rare.

[Unicorn]

I think the reason its unfair is that their issue is NOT with hygene, as they have stated that they do not want him to wear a hairnet as it 'looks daft'. If it was a purely hygene motivated issue, they would have stated from the begining that he must wear a hairnet. His beard is short, and sheds incredibly little compared to, say, a woman with a bob's hair. Its the fact that they are now demanding it goes as it 'looks trampy/scruffy' when there is nothing in the dress code that specifically mentions facial hair.
I do think its very sexist, the way these companies work. I have a male friend with collar length hair who is made to wear it tied back for work (or cut it) when the women with longer hair don't have to. Very odd.
DH doen't like to shave as he has a genetic condition which makes him grow benign tumours, some on his face. Its virtually impossible to shave around the things without doing him serious damage.
BTW, we live in a VERY hairy household, and none of us have ever encountered a hair in our food. We are careful with such things :)

It seems to me that your DH has enough to hold onto his beard:

1) The medical condition alone should stand as a valid reason, he just needs confirmation form the doctor.

2) As Humble knight suggested, ask your DH to note how other employees contain their hair (or not)

3) The name calling is just out of line and indicates a personal attack rather than a professional 'need'.

4) From your post, the top managers have not given him clear instructions on the solution to apply they have just said "it must be addressed".

I'd also suggest he request a beard net in writing as posted earlier and use it. I which care he will have 'addressed the problem' as requested.


I suspect this control freak will continue to harass him in other ways, so its worth him keeping notes on other demands she makes that she doesn't push on other employees and perhaps even a formal complaint on the name calling. It this woman escalates her victimisation, the initial incident will then be on record.

Unicorn

[woolyleprechaun]

I would still advise you approach Citizens advice, with a copy of your husbands contract fot hem to look over. The service is free, and they'll be able to tell you where you stand legally.

Slightly OT, but you mentioned your husband has a genetic condition with begnign skin tumours....not BHD by any chance? It's something I've recently been diagnosed with, and I know its pretty rare.
Its Neurofibromatosis, or NF for short. Do you mind me asking what BHD is? I'm always eager to learn :) You never know, I may be of some help (I know of some amazing lump-removal techniques they offer now....if thats anything to boast about ;))


It seems to me that your DH has enough to hold onto his beard:

1) The medical condition alone should stand as a valid reason, he just needs confirmation form the doctor.

2) As Humble knight suggested, ask your DH to note how other employees contain their hair (or not)

3) The name calling is just out of line and indicates a personal attack rather than a professional 'need'.

4) From your post, the top managers have not given him clear instructions on the solution to apply they have just said "it must be addressed".

I'd also suggest he request a beard net in writing as posted earlier and use it. I which care he will have 'addressed the problem' as requested.


I suspect this control freak will continue to harass him in other ways, so its worth him keeping notes on other demands she makes that she doesn't push on other employees and perhaps even a formal complaint on the name calling. It this woman escalates her victimisation, the initial incident will then be on record.

Unicorn
Agreed, most definately. It sickens me how such vicious personal attacks still happen in the work place. Proffessional concerns- sure, no problem. Personal attacks- not on.

[Bagginslover]

Burt-Hogg-Dube syndrome. It's genetic, and causes fibrofilliculomas, lung cysts (leading to pneumathoraces) and kidney cysts (leading to cancerous tumours). Both my father and myself have it, but as Dad was adopted, we don't know who he got it from. I've heard of NF, I don't think it's related to BHD, but I believe they share some similar symptoms.
I'd be very interested in lump removal techniques. My lumps, whilst numerous, are mostly pin-head sized, but I have a few that are increasing getting bigger and becoming more noticeable. I have one on my cheek that's tripled in size recently, and I can see it all the time, its driving me potty! If I don't get used to it soon, I'll be off to ask for it to be removed.

[woolyleprechaun]

Burt-Hogg-Dube syndrome. It's genetic, and causes fibrofilliculomas, lung cysts (leading to pneumathoraces) and kidney cysts (leading to cancerous tumours). Both my father and myself have it, but as Dad was adopted, we don't know who he got it from. I've heard of NF, I don't think it's related to BHD, but I believe they share some similar symptoms.
I'd be very interested in lump removal techniques. My lumps, whilst numerous, are mostly pin-head sized, but I have a few that are increasing getting bigger and becoming more noticeable. I have one on my cheek that's tripled in size recently, and I can see it all the time, its driving me potty! If I don't get used to it soon, I'll be off to ask for it to be removed.
My hubby's adopted too, so we don't know where he gets the NF from. For the smaller growths they usually just freeze/burn off like a regular skin tags, but the big ones can be more problematic. For my DH they tend to prefer the scoop-and-cauterise techniques to cut down on bleeding (the growths are very vascular), but in our experience they seem to cause more extensive scarring that the sewn up ones. Funnily enough we managed to reduce most of the scarring with castor oil, but the healing with the cauterised ones was a nightmare :/
Please feel free to PM me any time; DH and our daughters are quite liberally decorated with lumps and cafe au lait spots, so we are fairly knowledgable ;) I hope you get used to your face bump, but if not I'd reccomend a sew up removal job over a cauterisation (DHs looked like cigarette burns for ages!)

[krustallos]

That's so unprofessional on their part!
I think it does makes sense for certain jobs to require a 'clean-shaved' look, but I don't see how the expression can apply to a good beard. Personally, I have always seen it as referring to that dreadful look of a potato that hasn't been scrubbed given by just leaving random little pieces of facial hair around.

I know it is fashionable nowadays, and some people like the look; but since it is actually just left there, you can't complain if it's seen as lack of hygiene.
After all, well, to just leave things there is not the idea of hygiene, is it? A look suggesting that you just got out of bed and went straight to the streets usually will give a bad impression of yourself.

But trying to extend this to proper beard is clearly biased!
If there was anything unclean or not hygienic about hair itself, then the only logical position would be to demand everyone to shave all the hair in their bodies! Now, to make a problem out of one specific kind of hair is just illogical nagging.
If she found a hair on a soup, she should have kept it as a proof. Hair from beard is perfectly distinguishable. I guarantee - and I have 24 inches of hair on the head and a seven inches beard - I see a lot of hair everyday! Just saying 'hm, I saw a hair and it has to be his!' only demonstrates how personal the matter is.

So, if I were on this situation, I'd make my stand or get off.
First, because I can't stand to live with people giving me irrational orders. I'm not a rebel - actually a very disciplined person and full of sense of proper hierarchy, having been in the past a member of religious orders with codes much stricter than those of 'ordinary' society. But being carried by other people's humours is not for me. I say this because I'm single and, basically, have more freedom in this sense. Otherwise, it is understandable if you just have to compromise for a greater good.
But second, and, to the case probably more important, is that it looks like this woman has a personal problem with him - it can't be just the beard. So, as it stands it seems that if he chose to sacrifice his beard, it would just be pointless for soon enough something else will come up.

[Celtic Morla]

I would suggets he implement a strict hair net policy in th ekitchen. Anyone in th ekitchen musy be wearing a hair net for hygiene reasons even visitors! He needs to explain to HR about the comments from th ewoman and talk about a hostile work environment. Also do get a note from the DR about the reasons he wears a beard. Have him ask for a meeting with whoever oin the HR he needs to talk to and a list of th ewinesses who were there to verify th ecomments byu the woman.

I myself feel anyone wjho works with food should be required to wear hair nets as caps do nothing to prevent faling hair especailly ones less than 3 inches! A long hair you can spot not the short ones until it gets served up!