North Korean sanctioned hairstyles

[Zindell]

18 styles to choose from for women and ten for men... well, not enforced as I get it but "encouraged".


Daily Mail: In true North Korean fashion, women are 'encouraged' to choose from 18 officially sanctioned hairstyles (and men only get ten!) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282134/North-Korean-fashion-women-encouraged-choose-18-officially-sanctioned-hairstyles.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)


Edit:
Well... a swedish newspaper reporter decided to try one of the sanctioned hairdos, and let her daughter choose one. It came out to be nr 14:

>> Design à la diktator (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article16297554.ab)
Sorry it's all in swedish but you can look at the film hehee. (Starts with a short commercial)

Both the hairdresser and the reporter agrees that the styles look very outdated.
The hairdresser actually sound a bit sad when he tells her to "say good bye to your lengths" and "I think I unfortunately have to take off even more length (and color it black) to make it look like on the picture".

When they are done the reporter tells us that the hairdo makes her feel a bit more proper and that she feels she should should button up her blouse a bit more. She also thinks the women om the pictures looked better in the hairdos than she does.

[Dziip]

Very interesting. I'm surprised there is no long hair, no bun...

[Natalia]

Is it just me or do the first 3 men look exactly the same? I agree its odd that nearly all the womens options are above collar bone.

[jextxadore]

This doesn't surprise me at all. My mum went to primary school in Hong Kong and everyone had to have hair above their shoulders, regardless of gender. I'm not sure whether that meant they couldn't grow it past their shoulders or whether they just had to have their hair up all day. One of her class photos shows quite a few of those 18 styles (this was in the mid-60s).

I notice, even now in Hong Kong, that a lot of women working in an office (especially those higher up in the hierarchy) tend to have shorter hair.

[silverthread]

It's probably not as strange as we think it is. We have some unwritten "encouraged" hairstyles here in the U.S. as well. For example, elderly women and males of all ages are encouraged to have short hair. Younger women are encouraged to have long hair.

[Kherome]

That is common in south Korea as well. I have a friend there that had to have a certain haircut in school.

[airmid]

I remember I had a friend in China who was very upset when she got to a certain level in school and they chopped off her hair to about chin-length. She really didn't want to, but as far as I could understand, it was mandatory.
There had to be some reason, but she never explained it.
There are definitely unwritten hairstyle rules in our culture, at least when it comes to age and gender. Thank goodness we have the freedom to ignore said rules. :)

[EdG]

It's hard to believe that such a government could exist today when it is so easy to look around and see what the rest of the world is like.

The bizarre campaign exhorts women to choose from one of 18 officially sanctioned hairstyles chosen by communist officials eager to clamp down on western influences.

I can't imagine what would happen if they ever came across LHC. We're such a hotbed of subversiveness. :rolleyes:
Ed

[jacqueline101]

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[PixxieStix]

That's interesting indeed, I mean, I know there are social influences all over the world on everything from hair style choice to how you decorate your home. The pictures on the wall is something on the "extra-controlling" level though.

[gonzobird]

None of you have any idea what you're talking about.

Hong Kong, China and especially South Korea have absolutely nothing to do with North Korea. North Koreans don't have access to the outside world. They don't know who the eff Jennifer Aniston is. North Koreans don't have cell phones, internet, (not even pictures of their own family are allowed on their own walls; only pictures of the leader) and the only news they have at all from anywhere is on the tv; from one or two stations that are from the leader. Most people don't have tvs, anyways. The whole point is that they have absolutely no idea what the outside world is like, especially younger Koreans who were brought up this way. And this article about hair? I don't know if its true or not, but if it is, I guarantee the actual truth of it is much worse. Whats really going on there isn't pretty, and most people have no idea its all that bad to begin with. I don't think they care about their hair. If any of that dumb article is true, they would be excited to have a choice. Thats what brainwashing is, and what the article doesn't state.

I am not here being "mean" about anything, and don't want to argue or say anything further. Just pointing out that most people here wouldn't know what North Korea is really like, so don't compare and think your'e on to something when you don't know what you're talking about.

[humble_knight]

I'm surprised the Kim Jong-Il hairstyle - now being worn by his son - is not amongst the hairstyle choices for men.

[Nedertane]

None of you have any idea what you're talking about.

Hong Kong, China and especially South Korea have absolutely nothing to do with North Korea. North Koreans don't have access to the outside world. They don't know who the eff Jennifer Aniston is. North Koreans don't have cell phones, internet, (not even pictures of their own family are allowed on their own walls; only pictures of the leader) and the only news they have at all from anywhere is on the tv; from one or two stations that are from the leader. Most people don't have tvs, anyways. The whole point is that they have absolutely no idea what the outside world is like, especially younger Koreans who were brought up this way. And this article about hair? I don't know if its true or not, but if it is, I guarantee the actual truth of it is much worse. Whats really going on there isn't pretty, and most people have no idea its all that bad to begin with. I don't think they care about their hair. If any of that dumb article is true, they would be excited to have a choice. Thats what brainwashing is, and what the article doesn't state.

I am not here being "mean" about anything, and don't want to argue or say anything further. Just pointing out that most people here wouldn't know what North Korea is really like, so don't compare and think your'e on to something when you don't know what you're talking about.


Thank you. Thank you, thank you. And I'd like to add that anyone comparing these hair rules to social norms in the West, it's an interesting idea, but very, very off. In the West, if you've got "longer than normal hair," be you a teenage girl, an old woman, a middle-aged man or what, the worst you can probably count on facing (on a day-to-day basis, at any rate) is some snarky critic. In NK, if you step outside of such rules, the consequences you'll face can be much worse, like being harassed or beaten by the police, maybe even arrested, depending on your record, or how much you stepped out of line. North Korea's a damned scary place.

[In2wishin]

I was actually surprised that a couple of them were shoulder length and curly.

[Neneka]

gonzobird, thank you. :)

I have no idea what is it like to live in North Korea. I can't say that I understand what's behind these things because I live in totally different environment. I always think about limiting gender roles in our society and such but yeah, this is seriously something else.

[PraiseCheeses]

gonzobird - :agree:

1984 is pretty much reality over there, especially now that there is an adult generation that grew up completely under the Kim regime. Here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20445632) is an article about "Internet" in North Korea. All the information is strictly controlled by the government. From what I understand, the workers believe it's a privilege to work for their great nation under the principles of Juche; Glorious Leader is shepherding them to prosperity and technological marvels. Your social standing is determined based on your family's political loyalty over three generations, and this determines where you get to live and how much you get to eat.

If anyone is interested and you have a lot of time on your hands, here's a short book written by an Englishman who worked in Pyongyang for a year, revising propaganda: http://www.aidanfc.net/a_year_in_pyongyang.html (Full text, online and free.)

I have to admit I was looking specifically for Kim Jong-Un's and Ri Sol-ju's styles - which apparently are not officially sanctioned. :)

[Kaelee]

It's probably not as strange as we think it is. We have some unwritten "encouraged" hairstyles here in the U.S. as well. For example, elderly women and males of all ages are encouraged to have short hair. Younger women are encouraged to have long hair.

Agree with this.

[Kaelee]

gonzobird, thank you. :)

I have no idea what is it like to live in North Korea. I can't say that I understand what's behind these things because I live in totally different environment. I always think about limiting gender roles in our society and such but yeah, this is seriously something else.

Agree with this, and I feel like I should retract my previous comment.

[silverthread]

Let this be a lesson to all of us. BE CAREFUL about posting any innocuous articles about hairstyles you find on the internet, lest you be soundly admonished as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about by someone WHO REALLY DOES KNOW what they're talking about. And, for goodness sake, don't comment on such articles when you run across them.

[piffyanne]

Thanks, Gonzobird, that was a little harshly put, but I'm sure you meant well.


Back to the article, these few hairstyles don't seem to be much of a "choice". :shrug:

[HairFaerie]

The picture is captioned "North Korean women have a choice of 18 officially sanctioned haircuts which have been approved by officials wanting to clamp down on western influences"...

Sorry, but these all look like styles you would regularly see in the US! OK, some of them look like they are from the 80s but still...pretty Western if you asked me!

[spirals]

Let this be a lesson to all of us. BE CAREFUL about posting any innocuous articles about hairstyles you find on the internet, lest you be soundly admonished as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about by someone WHO REALLY DOES KNOW what they're talking about. And, for goodness sake, don't comment on such articles when you run across them.
Where's the like button?

[jeanniet]

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. And I'd like to add that anyone comparing these hair rules to social norms in the West, it's an interesting idea, but very, very off. In the West, if you've got "longer than normal hair," be you a teenage girl, an old woman, a middle-aged man or what, the worst you can probably count on facing (on a day-to-day basis, at any rate) is some snarky critic. In NK, if you step outside of such rules, the consequences you'll face can be much worse, like being harassed or beaten by the police, maybe even arrested, depending on your record, or how much you stepped out of line. North Korea's a damned scary place.

The social norms of any culture can be harsh, whether enforced by the government or not. The prevalence of eating disorders is one example. "Snarky critics" can lead to suicide. North Korea is a cruel regime, no doubt about it, but the West is not all fluff. It does a great disservice to those who have died because they couldn't fit in, and there have been many of them.

[AnnaJamila]

I am so glad I don't live in a society like that- I read 1984 for the first time a month or so ago and it just made my skin crawl! Though I'm not North Korean and in all actuality have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to their society, from what I've read and reports I've seen on TV the similarities are striking. I can only pray for the people there and hope this whole thing doesn't escalate into WWIII. :(

[Alun]

Let this be a lesson to all of us. BE CAREFUL about posting any innocuous articles about hairstyles you find on the internet, lest you be soundly admonished as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about by someone WHO REALLY DOES KNOW what they're talking about. And, for goodness sake, don't comment on such articles when you run across them.

LOL! North Korea is just a worse version of the worst we can offer.

[ghost]

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. And I'd like to add that anyone comparing these hair rules to social norms in the West, it's an interesting idea, but very, very off. In the West, if you've got "longer than normal hair," be you a teenage girl, an old woman, a middle-aged man or what, the worst you can probably count on facing (on a day-to-day basis, at any rate) is some snarky critic. In NK, if you step outside of such rules, the consequences you'll face can be much worse, like being harassed or beaten by the police, maybe even arrested, depending on your record, or how much you stepped out of line. North Korea's a damned scary place.

Agreed. Western norms/"rules" as far as choosing what to do with your personal appearance are more like guidelines -if you step outside the box you'll probably encounter a lot of naysayers and yeah, physical altercation may happen depending on who you are and what you look like. It's still very different from everything about you having to be government-mandated.

[thirstylocks]

@hairfaerie - totally agree! None of these look particularly "traditional Korean" to me - I don't know much about korean history, but I know Korean women have some extraordinary hair and, at least in ancient depictions of traditional women, they have some pretty elaborate hairstyles.

I don't think these new rules have anything to do with avoiding Western influence, even though that is probably what they tell their people it is about, but rather, an attempt to take conformity to new levels and just further make people lose their sense of individuality.

[Vanille_]

I've watched documentaries and interviews with people from NK and I just could never compare that to the West. It's just unfathomable to me. These people are truly brain washed. I even heard that when they try to run away to SK, SK is paid to turn them over. There are "work camps" that are barbaric and you can end up in them simply due to something your family did two or three generations ago. Nope. I can't compare that to anything except the Holocaust. I watched an interview with a boy who grew up in a work camp. The prisoners had incentives to turn people in for punishment. They'd be forced to gather around the person and throw stones until they died. The boy made it out and when he saw what life was like outside NK, he was just astonished. He was bombarded with technology, news, social norms that he had never imagined.

But I'm not critical of this post - it just disturbs me to see comments comparing their hardships to ours.

[Dorothy]

I agree. Their hardships are nothing like ours.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/north-korea/report-2012

It's a holocaust unfolding before our eyes.

[jeanniet]

I think, however, there is a huge danger in assuming that what is happening in NK or other similar situations (genocide/totalitarianism) would not happen in the West. Obviously, it has happened before, a number of times. I had a professor once who was in Dachau and is a highly regarded Holocaust authority. He has conducted many interviews with former members of the SS and was adamant that any society can perpetrate genocide given the right set of circumstances, in particular when the majority goes along with the governing authority and there is limited resistance to protect scapegoats. The kind of herd/mob mentality that creates a genocidal situation does happen here, every day, on a small scale. We just choose not to see it because we don't want to believe that we could be like them. Don't kid yourselves. The fact that it has happened several times since "the" holocaust should be enough to tell us that the Nazis weren't an aberation.

[humble_knight]

I think, however, there is a huge danger in assuming that what is happening in NK or other similar situations (genocide/totalitarianism) would not happen in the West. Obviously, it has happened before, a number of times. I had a professor once who was in Dachau and is a highly regarded Holocaust authority. He has conducted many interviews with former members of the SS and was adamant that any society can perpetrate genocide given the right set of circumstances, in particular when the majority goes along with the governing authority and there is limited resistance to protect scapegoats. The kind of herd/mob mentality that creates a genocidal situation does happen here, every day, on a small scale. We just choose not to see it because we don't want to believe that we could be like them. Don't kid yourselves. The fact that it has happened several times since "the" holocaust should be enough to tell us that the Nazis weren't an aberation.

No, they certainly were not. In 2013, neo-Nazis are alive and kicking in quite a few eastern European countries, and surprisingly a large number in Germany. Last year, there was a case of a neo-Nazi cell that had murdered non-whites in Germany over the last 10 yrs or so.

[Vanille_]

I think, however, there is a huge danger in assuming that what is happening in NK or other similar situations (genocide/totalitarianism) would not happen in the West. Obviously, it has happened before, a number of times. I had a professor once who was in Dachau and is a highly regarded Holocaust authority. He has conducted many interviews with former members of the SS and was adamant that any society can perpetrate genocide given the right set of circumstances, in particular when the majority goes along with the governing authority and there is limited resistance to protect scapegoats. The kind of herd/mob mentality that creates a genocidal situation does happen here, every day, on a small scale. We just choose not to see it because we don't want to believe that we could be like them. Don't kid yourselves. The fact that it has happened several times since "the" holocaust should be enough to tell us that the Nazis weren't an aberation.

I'm sure no one is questioning if we could evolve into such a state. That can't be argued. I think the problem some people had with the comments were along the lines of comparing our issues that we face with a choice in the matter to theirs where they have no choice. (older women having long hair and facing criticism in the west versus not following what the government tells you your hair should be styled as and you risk much more serious consequences than criticism.)

[hafattack]

I didnt gather that anyone was truly comparing our hardships to theirs.

As for jeanniet's post above, I have to agree! Die Welle, anyone? Influence and brute force are might persuaders (n)t brute force in Die Welle, haha)

[pixietail]

Man, serious 80's flashback here with all those hairstyles. When I think authentic non-western, Asian hairstyles those are not the ones that come to mind at all.

[jeanniet]

No, they certainly were not. In 2013, neo-Nazis are alive and kicking in quite a few eastern European countries, and surprisingly a large number in Germany. Last year, there was a case of a neo-Nazi cell that had murdered non-whites in Germany over the last 10 yrs or so.

I didn't mean Nazis per se. There is a long list of attrocities before and since Nazi Germany to a greater or lesser extent--Native Americans, Armenia, British India, Cambodia, Rwanda...

Obviously hair issues here are not comparable to NK. We're not a totalitarian state--but that doesn't mean that there are never similarities here. That's my point; people are people, good and bad. The work camp environment described above could just as easily be Americans as Koreans. It's not that big a jump from societal pressure to conform to enforced conformity. NK is the extreme end of the continuum.

[jeanniet]

I didnt gather that anyone was truly comparing our hardships to theirs.

As for jeanniet's post above, I have to agree! Die Welle, anyone? Influence and brute force are might persuaders (n)t brute force in Die Welle, haha)

I actually just saw Die Welle a couple weeks ago, and John Rabe a few days ago. Also had a discussion with my cousin on some of the history of British India that is now coming to light (thanks more to the British and not Indians, oddly enough). Anyway, I kind of have the genocidal mentality on the brain of late.

DH's grandfather came to the US because of the Armenian genocide. I haven't had the heart to trace his family tree back to Armenia yet.

[Nedertane]

I'm sure no one is questioning if we could evolve into such a state. That can't be argued. I think the problem some people had with the comments were along the lines of comparing our issues that we face with a choice in the matter to theirs where they have no choice. (older women having long hair and facing criticism in the west versus not following what the government tells you your hair should be styled as and you risk much more serious consequences than criticism.)


Yeah, this is what I was getting at. Maybe no one was intentionally trying to compare the two, but that's how I read it. I tried to make a point that it's just not right to try to compare the two, because if you're discriminated against in the West, you can usually take it up with some authority figure, but in this particular case, enforced norms are part of the LAW - a really strict, horrible law that can have all sorts of horrid consequences for North Koreans if they're found to be transgressing. Thus why I might have been harsh or curt. I just didn't want to see people trying to compare the two as the same and not know what these hair rules *really* mean for North Korean citizens.

[Mely]

The Iranian government has also put out a list of approved hair styles - for men. Women are supposed to keep their hair covered. They actually have morality police who try to enforce the rules, apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/7873621/Iran-government-issues-style-guide-for-mens-hair.html


The morality police think that women's hair gives off rays that lead men astray, hence it must be covered.
http://www.mohabatnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5015:iran-women-resist-dictates-that-they-wear-funny-clothes&catid=35:inside-iran&Itemid=278

[AnnaJamila]

The Iranian government has also put out a list of approved hair styles - for men. Women are supposed to keep their hair covered. They actually have morality police who try to enforce the rules, apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/7873621/Iran-government-issues-style-guide-for-mens-hair.html


The morality police think that women's hair gives off rays that lead men astray, hence it must be covered.
http://www.mohabatnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5015:iran-women-resist-dictates-that-they-wear-funny-clothes&catid=35:inside-iran&Itemid=278

That's sort of an offensive way of looking at hijab but Iran is pretty messed up about that sort of thing. The female ninja video on the side bar was kind of neat, though.

ETA: Sorry, I didn't realize that was how the actual article had worded it. While I love my own personal Arab things like this make me glad that we live in my home country instead of his.

[Kaelee]

The morality police think that women's hair gives off rays that lead men astray, hence it must be covered.
http://www.mohabatnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5015:iran-women-resist-dictates-that-they-wear-funny-clothes&catid=35:inside-iran&Itemid=278

Oh my....that reminds me so much of something I might read in a comedy book (somewhere along the lines of Future Eden or Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)...It's kind of jaw dropping to see that it's real (as in it's actually going on.)

ETA: I don't mean to make light of the situation, only to say that it's utterly ridiculous (and I'm sure, very far from the real reason that Hijab is worn in Muslim religion.)

[Iolanthe13]

The Iranian government has also put out a list of approved hair styles - for men. Women are supposed to keep their hair covered. They actually have morality police who try to enforce the rules, apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/7873621/Iran-government-issues-style-guide-for-mens-hair.html


The morality police think that women's hair gives off rays that lead men astray, hence it must be covered.
http://www.mohabatnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5015:iran-women-resist-dictates-that-they-wear-funny-clothes&catid=35:inside-iran&Itemid=278

While the Telegraph is probably reasonably reliable, that second website doesn't look that trustworthy to me...looks like it's heavily biased against Islam, and probably isn't giving an accurate account of the situation. That's not to discount that there might be "morality police," or that it could be a bad thing.

[hafattack]

I agree, it is Very poorly written in the article.

There are several reasons for wearing hijab. I believe deflecting lust of men is one of them. (Correct me if I am wrong AnnaJamila!)
It is not always an act of oppression. While doubtless it is in some places, many women of all Abrahamic religions choose to wear a covering.

[littlestarface]

So a private government like NK gave out a picture of hairstyles only allowed there to the UKs own dailymail,wow they are quiet lucky to have such a privilage.

[littlestarface]

The Iranian government has also put out a list of approved hair styles - for men. Women are supposed to keep their hair covered. They actually have morality police who try to enforce the rules, apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/7873621/Iran-government-issues-style-guide-for-mens-hair.html


The morality police think that women's hair gives off rays that lead men astray, hence it must be covered.
http://www.mohabatnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5015:iran-women-resist-dictates-that-they-wear-funny-clothes&catid=35:inside-iran&Itemid=278
oops read it wrong lol but im sure iranian gov/ doesnt have time to be looking at and making sure all the men have the same type of cut.

[leslissocool]

Agreed. Western norms/"rules" as far as choosing what to do with your personal appearance are more like guidelines -if you step outside the box you'll probably encounter a lot of naysayers and yeah, physical altercation may happen depending on who you are and what you look like. It's still very different from everything about you having to be government-mandated.

Exactly. Look at all the issues we have in western countries because people can't fit into the social stereotypes, what issues they hide there because you HAVE to fit into those by law or else you get killed?

I am happy living in a country that might judge me because of my hairstyle, but allow me the liberty of it. If I want to walk around with a blue afro I will damn it! :soapbox: :rant:.

And just because it's on topic.... (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-orIN5XVMwuI/UFiEsDpEmuI/AAAAAAAACSg/cHy7so71M60/s1600/south%2Bkorea.jpg)

[Zindell]

Well... a swedish newspaper reporter decided to try one of the sanctioned hairdos, and let her daughter choose one. It came out to be nr 14:

>> Design à la diktator (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article16297554.ab)
Sorry it's all in swedish but you can look at the film hehee. (Starts with a short commercial)

Both the hairdresser and the reporter agrees that the styles look very outdated.
The hairdresser actually sound a bit sad when he tells her to "say good bye to your lengths" and "I think I unfortunately have to take off even more length (and color it black) to make it look like on the picture".

When they are done the reporter tells us that the hairdo makes her feel a bit more proper and that she feels she should should button up her blouse a bit more. She also thinks the women om the pictures looked better in the hairdos than she does.

[Kaelee]

Well... a swedish newspaper reporter decided to try one of the sanctioned hairdos, and let her daughter choose one. It came out to be nr 14:

>> Design à la diktator (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article16297554.ab)
Sorry it's all in swedish but you can look at the film hehee. (Starts with a short commercial)

Both the hairdresser and the reporter agrees that the styles look very outdated.
The hairdresser actually sound a bit sad when he tells her to "say good bye to your lengths" and "I think I unfortunately have to take off even more length (and color it black) to make it look like on the picture".

When they are done the reporter tells us that the hairdo makes her feel a bit more proper and that she feels she should should button up her blouse a bit more. She also thinks the women om the pictures looked better in the hairdos than she does.

That's interesting...they do all look like 80's American hairstyles, not anything I'd even remotely consider traditional Korean (though from what I've seen some of those hairstyles ARE popular with Korean women). Hairtype really does make a difference in them.

[chen bao jun]

While undoubtedly our society COULD be taken over by something like the Nazis we are not taken over by the Nazis at this moment. We cannot be compared to North Korea in any way. People are not taught what communist states like North Korea are like--they are very little different from the Nazis. the level of oppression is unbelievable and every time a communist regime falls and the information comes out, not just is every aspect of daily life monitored (if it stopped at hairstyles, it would be one thing but we're talking family life, sexuality, job, no free speechand everything else) with dissidents sent to camps that are every bit as bad as Auschwitz or Dachau. The main difference between the Nazis and Communist regimes is that Communists have murdered 10-15x the number of people that Hitler did. they murder their own people, which I don't understand why this is supposed to be less bad than murdering those of an ethnic minority. the murdered are still DEAD. Google words like 'kulak' 'Red Terror' 'gulag' 'Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution' 'state sanctioned famine' 'brainwashing' 'Stalinist show trials' for some more information on this. Comparing the social pressure to have a shorter haircut in the US to what goes on in these places is like comparing having your fingernails trimmed to having your head cut off.
As for the hijab issue, I don't think anyone on this forum said that hijab was an issue when its a woman's choice to wear one for modesty issues. Iran and Afghanistan under the Taliban however are not just any Islamic regime, however, but draconian regimes that have really violated not just women's rights but human rights in general in the worst ways and its not doing Islam a service, in my opinion to say that speaking out against the abuses in those places is being prejudiced against Muslims. It needs to be pointed out that what has been done in those places are not things that the majority of Muslims agree with.

[CurlyCurves]

NKs can't leave NK?!

[Vanille_]

It is extremely hard to leave NK. Most have to run away and that can be near impossible. Like I said, if they end up in SK and are caught, they risk being returned by the SK authorities. It's really heartbreaking.

[didrash]

As someone who has lived in a communist regime, albeit a relatively more liberal one than the North Korean, I tend to agree with gonzobird. She put it harshly, but it is true. One cannot just "look around and see the rest of the world", as EdG put it. Information is strictly controlled, all you have access to is the government propaganda TV and radio. You are being fed a lot of lies since birth - for example, Coca cola is a dangerous alcoholic beverage and the depraved west is constantly drunk on it, etc. I could write you a book and it would still not be enough to describe the isolation, the control, the brainwashing. You cannot accomplish anything through work or talent, unless you have connections in the party. You are kept poor while a small class is very, very rich and you are taught this is actually good, everyone is equal. I suppose these hairstyles are a part of it - suppress individuality, make everyone equal, do not even dare to think differently... In Bulgaria people have been arrested for having Beatles' style hair. At the very least, their hair was forcefully cut on the street. When I was little the regime was a bit more liberal, but girls in school were not allowed to wear their hair down unless it was very short, and long hair on a boy was unheard of. The teachers would enforce it. So, yes, it is about much more than hair, it is about keeping the slaves in line.

[didrash]

While undoubtedly our society COULD be taken over by something like the Nazis we are not taken over by the Nazis at this moment. We cannot be compared to North Korea in any way. People are not taught what communist states like North Korea are like--they are very little different from the Nazis. the level of oppression is unbelievable and every time a communist regime falls and the information comes out, not just is every aspect of daily life monitored (if it stopped at hairstyles, it would be one thing but we're talking family life, sexuality, job, no free speechand everything else) with dissidents sent to camps that are every bit as bad as Auschwitz or Dachau. The main difference between the Nazis and Communist regimes is that Communists have murdered 10-15x the number of people that Hitler did. they murder their own people, which I don't understand why this is supposed to be less bad than murdering those of an ethnic minority. the murdered are still DEAD. Google words like 'kulak' 'Red Terror' 'gulag' 'Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution' 'state sanctioned famine' 'brainwashing' 'Stalinist show trials' for some more information on this. Comparing the social pressure to have a shorter haircut in the US to what goes on in these places is like comparing having your fingernails trimmed to having your head cut off.
As for the hijab issue, I don't think anyone on this forum said that hijab was an issue when its a woman's choice to wear one for modesty issues. Iran and Afghanistan under the Taliban however are not just any Islamic regime, however, but draconian regimes that have really violated not just women's rights but human rights in general in the worst ways and its not doing Islam a service, in my opinion to say that speaking out against the abuses in those places is being prejudiced against Muslims. It needs to be pointed out that what has been done in those places are not things that the majority of Muslims agree with.


Agree 100%, very well put.

[Fufu]

This is interesting.

Although I wish there are more choices.

[Aveyronnaise]

Marjane Sarpati speaks quite a bit about the morality patrols in her graphic novels Persepolis, an excellent read about the transition of life in Iran .

[neko_kawaii]

Persepolis is a wonderful book, as is the sequel. Reminds me that Guy Delisle did a graphic novel about time he spent in Pyongyang.

[cobden 28]

Womens hairstyle no 14 looks like something from the 1940's!