How bad is chemical dye really?

[Xxanderia]

So when I first joined I was super excited to start using henna, and going darker to my goal color (deep burgundy.) Unfortunately, every time I used henna I ended up shedding a TON of hair. Literally like clumps of it. I tried mixing different ratios, using oil, conditioner. It didn't seem to matter; I just kept loosing too much hair.

So while the boards were down I gave in and used a chemical dye, and I love the outcome. But now I seem to have guilt tripped myself for using it because I'm worried about how damaged it would actually make my hair. Why exactly is chemical dye so bad? I used a nourishing non-ammonia color. Does normal chemical dye create more splits in the hair, or is it just the condition of the hair afterwards that makes it damaging?

[jacqueline101]

If I was to chemical dye I'd try Garnier unless you want temporary color I'd use Clairol Jazzing.

[Sillage]

I use a permanent chemical dye on my hair with no guilt. :flower: Is it damaging? Sure. It requires lifting the cuticle to deposit dye. I do a lot of protein treatments which help tremendously to improve the condition of my hair (ApHogee 2 Step and GVP K Pak). I have no split ends and my hair actually appears smoother. I know it is less than optimal, but I want to enjoy my hair, so I do it. My advice would be to take the best care you can of your hair and not worry about the dyeing if you like the results. We all do things that are not so good for our hair-- nobody's perfect :)

[lapushka]

I'm thinking it's not too good for your scalp, first and foremost. That's the part where it hits you hardest. My mom uses chemical dye, but she only uses it about 4 times a year, approximately, as long as she can stretch it, she does.

[jillosity]

I used Natural Instincts for years, with very little damage, and I think if I'd known more about hair care in general my hair would have been even better. My scalp was perfectly clear, but who knows how much brain damage I have from so many years coloring ;) And also who's to say henna leaching into the blood stream via your scalp is any less damaging to your overall health? I'm kidding quite a bit, but it's to say that it's your hair and if it responds better to regular hair color, then use it and enjoy your hair looking the way you want it to :)

ET: if I were to go back to coloring I'd stick with the temporary/semi perm colors, most likely manic panic since it comes in every color and you can blend whatever shade you want.

[Rosetta]

Permanent (and possibly demi-permanent) dyes alter the structure of the hair forever; it may not result in clearly visible damage for everyone though (especially if you don't overlap the dye but just colour the roots after first time), so in that sense alone it may be fine to use them and still grow long.

But in my opinion the really bad thing about chemical dyes are the chemicals themselves... All those sudden deaths or collapses from hair dyes featured in the news in recent years (like this case: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/killed-by-her-hair-dye-mother-who-suffered-huge-allergic-reaction-dies-after-year-in-coma/story-e6frf7jo-1226524020044) have truly scared me off using chemical dyes (at least those with PPD), for life I now think. And it's not just the sudden, fatal reactions to dye, but the fact that during years of use, the chemicals accumulated in the body may well be carcinogenic, like the above article also says ("a U.S. study has linked exposure to PPD to increased rates of bladder cancer").

[Tristania]

I find that applying chemical dye over a coconut oil treatment greatly reduces peroxide damage. Since I started dyeing my hair that way, my hair has seemed much healthier, with no dryness or breakage. Granted, I never touch stuff containing ammonia; that probably helps, too.

[Allychan]

It also depends on your hair type. For some of us the damage shows up fairly quickly for others, it may take a little longer.
like the other posters mentioned, you permanently change the structure of your hair shaft each time you dye and this eventually will weather your hair shaft down. I could never get past BSL when using chemical dyes.
In my case, I use henna now and have not used chemical hair dye since Jan 2011. It usually is the application of the henna that causes the shedding as it is quite rough in texture and it is easy to accidently pull hairs out that will shed when you rinse it out. I add yoghurt to my mix so it goes on creamy and is easier to apply. The rougness you feel after a henna application is the gritty texture of the henna 'molecule' (not dryness), this can cause hair to tangle more. To counter this I put in a leave in deep conditioner treatment for a couple of days following my henna application

[Babyfine]

Since I found the boards several years ago I've been intrigued with the idea of henna, but I've so far been scared off by the posts of shedding that I've read including Xxanderia's.(not just here but on the henna forums as well) I think I could manage too much red, or even wave/curl loss, but not excessive shedding.
I now use a demi permanent color-have it applied in a salon about 4X a year to cover greys and I've noticed little to no damage but I'm sure it causes some degree of damage which I try to mitigate by treating my hair like antique lace otherwise. To be honest, though, I agree with the poster above who said that it's not the greatest thing for the scalp-which is why I keep it to just 4X a year(or less). I'm still looking either into henna, or just accepting my silvers, as I don't want to keep dye-ing indefinetely.

[MrsGuther]

Whenever I use a box dye my hair sheds like crazy. :/ Im really going to make an effort to avoid box dye altogether in 2013 if I can stand it. I did about five foil high lights right around the front of my hair a couple months ago, and I liked the result fairly well. I am NOT a fan of bleach damage though, so I won't be doing that again for a very long time. I'm thinking I will just leave my hair alone for about six months and enjoy the naturalness of my "roots" for a while. Hey, the ombré look is all the rage right? ;)

[akilina]

If you avoid permanent color and use demi permanent dye its not the worst thing ever. If you ARE going to chemically color I recommend going to some place like Sallys and buying a tube of Wella color and 10 vol developer.
I don't use wella from sallys I use the real actual Professional Wella Color touch that I can get at CosmoProf, but its probably not available to you...so the normal Wella color charm from Sally will do.
I have no damage from doing this and have been using Wella color touch for about 3 years now.

I always used to use Wella Color Charm from Sally as a teenager and still liked it/had no issues at all with damage.

[In2wishin]

So when I first joined I was super excited to start using henna, and going darker to my goal color (deep burgundy.) Unfortunately, every time I used henna I ended up shedding a TON of hair. Literally like clumps of it. I tried mixing different ratios, using oil, conditioner. It didn't seem to matter; I just kept loosing too much hair.

So while the boards were down I gave in and used a chemical dye, and I love the outcome. But now I seem to have guilt tripped myself for using it because I'm worried about how damaged it would actually make my hair. Why exactly is chemical dye so bad? I used a nourishing non-ammonia color. Does normal chemical dye create more splits in the hair, or is it just the condition of the hair afterwards that makes it damaging?

Like everything else, it comes down to individual experience. If you are concerned, read up on the various ingredients and pick the dye that will give you the best results with the fewest issues for your hair. I avoid henna like the plague because I need to avoid red tones. I have been using box dye (L'Oreal Excellence creme) for 15 years now and have not noticed any damage. I do stick to the same color and do roots only whenever possible.

Whatever you choose to do, it is your choice and there is no reason to feel guilty.

[Sillage]

I use the real actual Professional Wella Color touch that I can get at CosmoProf, but its probably not available to you...so the normal Wella color charm from Sally will do.

You can get Well Professional from extendedlengths.com but shipping is high and CS is poor. The product tho is apparently legit. They also sell Redken EQ which is supposed to be really nice-- in fact I was going to use it but then I figured vol 10 wasn't going to do anything to my white hair :P


Whatever you choose to do, it is your choice and there is no reason to feel guilty.

So true!!

[turtlelover]

I DEFINITELY have had significant damage from Wal-Mart type box dyes, and will never use them again. For permanent dye w/ little damage, I really like Robert Craig. I didn't find it more damaging that a demi. For a demi-perm, I currently use and love Ion from Sally's applied w/ a 10 volume developer -- miles ahead of Natural Instincts, in my opinion. Anytime you use higher volume developer, you will get more damage, so go with a demi-perm for less damage. For long, long hair, it isn't a bad idea to use a 5 volume developer on the ends and a 10 on the roots since the ends have higher porosity and "grab" color better. A protein filler is also a good idea to make the color more even. Demi colors still last quite awhile if you use sulfate free shampoo and don't wash every day. I think you really do need to "baby" your hair if you color treat it -- avoiding heat, oiling, deep conditioning, etc.

[akilina]

Good to know Sillage!!!
Also, OP, what I meant to say was basically....I avoid "boxed dyes" at all costs and I think that is where the most damage comes in. Harsher chemicals and too high of a volume of developer.

[starlamelissa]

I use revlon color silk, on my roots only, and glaze manic panic on the length every so often. My hair is in good shape, quite long and thick too. I will post a pic.

[lovinglocks]

Two things I never want to do again: straighten my hair and use chemical dye. Half my hair is healthy undyed growth that curls and shines. The other half had been dyed black a few times and used to be straightened. That hair doesn't curl, breaks often, and looks thin and limp. As much as I loved black hair, I love the healthy stuff even more.

[Kaelee]

Is the shedding happening when you rinse out the henna? If so, that's normal. The mechanical stress pulls out a lot of hairs that would have fallen out in the next few days anyway. I shed small animals whenever I henna, but it never lasts longer than the actual rinsing/washing out the henna, then I usually shed less for a few days to make up for it.

I haven't used a chemical dye in years, so I don't know much about them, sorry.

[Allychan]

Two things I never want to do again: straighten my hair and use chemical dye. Half my hair is healthy undyed growth that curls and shines. The other half had been dyed black a few times and used to be straightened. That hair doesn't curl, breaks often, and looks thin and limp. As much as I loved black hair, I love the healthy stuff even more.

Totally agree with your post. Spot on, I feel the exact same way about my hair

[ravenreed]

If it isn't lifting color, it most likely isn't doing much damage at all. I got great results with a demi-permanent which is low peroxide.


So when I first joined I was super excited to start using henna, and going darker to my goal color (deep burgundy.) Unfortunately, every time I used henna I ended up shedding a TON of hair. Literally like clumps of it. I tried mixing different ratios, using oil, conditioner. It didn't seem to matter; I just kept loosing too much hair.

So while the boards were down I gave in and used a chemical dye, and I love the outcome. But now I seem to have guilt tripped myself for using it because I'm worried about how damaged it would actually make my hair. Why exactly is chemical dye so bad? I used a nourishing non-ammonia color. Does normal chemical dye create more splits in the hair, or is it just the condition of the hair afterwards that makes it damaging?

[Fethenwen]

That is weird, I use henna to shed less hair. Perhaps you are allergic to henna?

Anyway, if you want to dye your hair but cannot use henna, then there is really no other alternative than chemical dye. I would not be so concerned with the hair damage, but more concerned about the environmental damage those chemicals might have. But each to their own I guess.

Using protein treatments, as somebody already mentioned, might make the hair stand against the damage from the coloring and make it look pretty healthy.

[xoxophelia]

For me, chemical dye is pretty bad. It might look shiny at first but after just a few short weeks the shine faded out and then my hair was more dull than it is naturally. As I have slowly grown out the dye and let it fade I can say without a doubt my hair was damaged from it. I had to trim regularly or I would end up with straw ends. The life span of the dyed hair is much worse. I'm looking forward to eventually being rid of it..

eta: most of the time I used demi dyes

[Rosetta]

I would not be so concerned with the hair damage, but more concerned about the environmental damage those chemicals might have. But each to their own I guess.

That, and the effect to the health in general. I'm a bit surprised no one else besides me has said anything about the possible fatal reactions to and (likely) carcinogenicity of chemical dyes... Even when those have been widely featured in the media. And yet everyone just keeps on talking about the possible hair damage. Are people just mentally blocking those things out, or what could be the reason here..? :?

[In2wishin]

That, and the effect to the health in general. I'm a bit surprised no one else besides me has said anything about the possible fatal reactions to and (likely) carcinogenicity of chemical dyes... Even when those have been widely featured in the media. And yet everyone just keeps on talking about the possible hair damage. Are people just mentally blocking those things out, or what could be the reason here..? :?

It is an extremely rare allergic reaction, not a common occurance, so it rarely enters into a general discussion about hair coloring. Anyone contemplating coloring their hair should do their due diligence about the ingredients and potential risks, however rare. Damage to hair is much more common and is what the OP was asking about.

[Rosetta]

^ Well, considering how many cases have been in the media recently, it doesn't seem to be "extremely rare" anymore... Until a few years ago I at least hadn't heard of any deaths from hair dye, now there have been several within a year. And not just deaths, also very strong allergic reactions (can't even remember how many cases of those I've seen reported). At least to me these things are quite essential in debating how bad are chemical dyes... If you end up in hospital for using one, isn't that bad, no? Well, I can only echo Fethenwen - each to their own, I guess. :shrug:

[ellen732]

^ Well, considering how many cases have been in the media recently, it doesn't seem to be "extremely rare" anymore... Until a few years ago I at least hadn't heard of any deaths from hair dye, now there have been several within a year. And not just deaths, also very strong allergic reactions (can't even remember how many cases of those I've seen reported). At least to me these things are quite essential in debating how bad are chemical dyes... If you end up in hospital for using one, isn't that bad, no? Well, I can only echo Fethenwen - each to their own, I guess. :shrug:

That's why manufacturer's recommend a patch test on the inner fold of the elbow 24 hours before putting it over your entire head, especially for someone who has never used permanent color before. That way you don't wind up in the hospital.

[Kaelee]

^ Well, considering how many cases have been in the media recently, it doesn't seem to be "extremely rare" anymore... Until a few years ago I at least hadn't heard of any deaths from hair dye, now there have been several within a year. And not just deaths, also very strong allergic reactions (can't even remember how many cases of those I've seen reported). At least to me these things are quite essential in debating how bad are chemical dyes... If you end up in hospital for using one, isn't that bad, no? Well, I can only echo Fethenwen - each to their own, I guess. :shrug:

I actually wasn't aware of it. I am one of those people who gets my news online, from word of mouth etc. I didn't know that these stories had made the news, though I knew that there were SOME severe reactions to hair dyes.

[Sillage]

^ Well, considering how many cases have been in the media recently, it doesn't seem to be "extremely rare" anymore...

It's extremely rare when compared to the millions of people who dye their hair without incident.

[juliaxena]

Why don't you give Elumen a try? The red tones are virtually permanent and it does not damage your hair.

[In2wishin]

^ Well, considering how many cases have been in the media recently, it doesn't seem to be "extremely rare" anymore... Until a few years ago I at least hadn't heard of any deaths from hair dye, now there have been several within a year. And not just deaths, also very strong allergic reactions (can't even remember how many cases of those I've seen reported). At least to me these things are quite essential in debating how bad are chemical dyes... If you end up in hospital for using one, isn't that bad, no? Well, I can only echo Fethenwen - each to their own, I guess. :shrug:

How many? I have done a (I hope) extensive search and came up with only one worldwide (Tabatha McCourt) and one almost death in the last 3 years, and both were linked to PPD which gives the blackest color.

[Kaelee]

Why don't you give Elumen a try? The red tones are virtually permanent and it does not damage your hair.

I second this. If my hair weren't so dark, pravana vivids or Elumen are things I would love to try.

[Soltimus]

I'm not so much worried about that box dye does to your hair as much as I am about what it does to your body and organism entirely. I started dying my hair early and the older I get the more weird little allergies and intolerances have started showing up. This goes for most of the friends I have who started dying their hair early with box dyes. There are many allergens in the products we use, and I'm pretty sure if the normal hair dye most people used was invented today it might have become banned very fast. Probably the same goes for many other products. When I was younger I couldn't care less about the chemicals, I just liked the look. I wish I'd been more careful now, or had had stricter parents, ha ha.

[Babyfine]

I believe Clairol Loving Care doesn't have PPD, nor ammonia or peroxide, but alas it's being discontinued and is hard to get anymore. It's a semi-permanent dye and doesn't last long, either, but the darker colors may last longer for those who don't shampoo as often.

[ravenreed]

PPD is in most commercial hair dyes, not just black, including the 'natural' ones available at the health stores, like Herbal Tint.


How many? I have done a (I hope) extensive search and came up with only one worldwide (Tabatha McCourt) and one almost death in the last 3 years, and both were linked to PPD which gives the blackest color.

[In2wishin]

PPD is in most commercial hair dyes, not just black, including the 'natural' ones available at the health stores, like Herbal Tint.

True but the blacker the dye, the more concentrated the PPD (aka 'coal black') is. It is also used in black henna for tattoos

[Xxanderia]

Why don't you give Elumen a try? The red tones are virtually permanent and it does not damage your hair.

For some reason this keeps slipping my mind. I just found out too that I have a distributor of elumen close by. I guess I should head over to the elumen thread to read up!

[Rosetta]

How many? I have done a (I hope) extensive search and came up with only one worldwide (Tabatha McCourt) and one almost death in the last 3 years, and both were linked to PPD which gives the blackest color.
There was even a link to one in my post in page 1 (Julia McCabe, the link again: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/killed-by-her-hair-dye-mother-who-suffered-huge-allergic-reaction-dies-after-year-in-coma/story-e6frf7jo-1226524020044), so your search can't have been very extensive...
(Plus I've come across several cases of bad allergic reaction here in Finland, though those obviously wouldn't be featured worldwide).

And like others have said above, PPD is in all permanent and demi-permanent dyes (and even in some semi-permanent dyes), including blonde ones. (You only need to read the ingredients lists of the dyes to see that.)


That's why manufacturer's recommend a patch test on the inner fold of the elbow 24 hours before putting it over your entire head, especially for someone who has never used permanent color before. That way you don't wind up in the hospital.
Actually, those patch tests aren't of much use in preventing bad reactions - and the manufacturers usually say as much in their instructions... In fact the risk of getting a reaction may be even greater if you've done a test, keeping the dye on your skin for 48 hours, as most tests tell you to do! That is obviously a much longer time than what you keep the dye in your hair, thus much more of the chemicals will enter the bloodstream.
In any case, the tests are just a disclaimer by those companies to try to free them of any responsibility if something happens.



I actually wasn't aware of it. I am one of those people who gets my news online, from word of mouth etc. I didn't know that these stories had made the news, though I knew that there were SOME severe reactions to hair dyes.
I also get most of my news online, that's how I've come across most of these cases, but glad I could help more people being aware of this :)

[Allychan]

There was even a link to one in my post in page 1 (Julia McCabe, the link again: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/killed-by-her-hair-dye-mother-who-suffered-huge-allergic-reaction-dies-after-year-in-coma/story-e6frf7jo-1226524020044), so your search can't have been very extensive...
(Plus I've come across several cases of bad allergic reaction here in Finland, though those obviously wouldn't be featured worldwide).

And like others have said above, PPD is in all permanent and demi-permanent dyes (and even in some semi-permanent dyes), including blonde ones. (You only need to read the ingredients lists of the dyes to see that.)

Actually, those patch tests aren't of much use in preventing bad reactions - and the manufacturers usually say as much in their instructions... In fact the risk of getting a reaction may be even greater if you've done a test, keeping the dye on your skin for 48 hours, as most tests tell you to do! That is obviously a much longer time than what you keep the dye in your hair, thus much more of the chemicals will enter the bloodstream.
In any case, the tests are just a disclaimer by those companies to try to free them of any responsibility if something happens.

I also get most of my news online, that's how I've come across most of these cases, but glad I could help more people being aware of this :)

We have TV shows over here (Australia) called A Current Affair and Today Tonight and they have had quite a few cases where people were allergic to hair dyes. It is rare if you compare it to the massive number of people who dye their hair with no reaction. But if you are in that small percentile I guess you would be asking 'why did someone not tell me'. I figured everyone knew about this? And you had already mentioned it in your post.

Here's a couple of horror stories to support your arguement http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8535984 http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/latest/article/-/13228815/horrific-hair-dyes/

[In2wishin]

There was even a link to one in my post in page 1 (Julia McCabe, the link again: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/killed-by-her-hair-dye-mother-who-suffered-huge-allergic-reaction-dies-after-year-in-coma/story-e6frf7jo-1226524020044), so your search can't have been very extensive...
(Plus I've come across several cases of bad allergic reaction here in Finland, though those obviously wouldn't be featured worldwide).

And like others have said above, PPD is in all permanent and demi-permanent dyes (and even in some semi-permanent dyes), including blonde ones


OK, two then. Also, as had been said before, the blacker the dye, the higher the concentration of PPD and all of the reactions that have made the news were people who used very black hair color. PPD is also in many other cosmetics, especially mascara

Look, I am NOT saying that there is nothing wrong with chemical dye. I AM saying that it is not the big danger some alarmists feel that it is. Everyone needs to be aware of their body and skin and how it reacts as well as potential issues with ingredients and make an informed choice. If we eliminate every ingredient someone reacts to I should be pushing to remove all commercial shampoo and conditioners from the shelves and arguing here that people should avoid them because the most common preservatives release formaldehyde, a chemical known to cause problems. If you think that is extreme, I am one of those who cannot come in contact with formaldehyde.

[Rosetta]

^ Of course, I appreciate that people can be allergic to various and different things, but it is really misleading to compare the danger of hairdyes to those of shampoo and conditioner... They are on a wholly different level in terms of danger. For one, I haven't heard of any cases of death or hospitalization from shampoos or conditioners. As for "alarmist", it's more like the opposite, if anything the dangers are still being belittled (what you wrote being a good example).

Allychan already posted some further "horror stories" (thanks!), but here are a few more: http://heidiclarke.webs.com/patchtestimonies.htm
(All these people had even done the patch test before dyeing, so it didn't help a thing, probably more the contrary, as I wrote earlier...)

And as for "being aware of their body and skin and how it reacts and making an informed choice" - what really frightened me in the case of Julia McCabe (linked earlier) was that she had reportedly dyed her hair for years and had never before experienced any problems or reactions to the dye... None at all, until one day when rinsing out the dye she collapses, falls into a coma and later dies. So this could basically happen to anyone using a chemical dye (with PPD). :bigeyes: Not alarmist, just stating a fact. That was a real wake-up call for me. How exactly does being aware how your body and skin reacts help there..?

[torrilin]

*shrug*

Allergic reactions can turn fatal at any time, and you won't necessarily have warning. Some kinds of allergies can cause fatal reactions due to exposure to a few molecules of the allergen. If I let my fear of my weird allergic reactions control my life, I'd be trying to live in a clean room bubble. And since some of my weird allergic reactions are about as rare as the PPD one... I definitely do have reason for concern.

Since I don't actually want to live in a clean room, I take reasonable precautions. I know fragrances in general are problematic for me, so I use fragrance free products for the most part. I can't make everyone else in the world go fragrance free tho... and even for myself, it is a for the most part thing. There are scented products that I can and do use safely. Fortunately or unfortunately (I never can quite decide which) I'm the most fragrance sensitive person in my family, so I wind up being the test bunny for everyone else. If something is safe for me, chances are very good the rest of us can use the product too.

There are plenty of fragrance sensitive people tho who are sensitive to the stuff that is safe for me, and are fine with the stuff that gives me trouble. There just aren't simple rules for this kind of thing.

If you've got reason to be concerned, definitely do a patch test with new products. Read ingredients lists. Make sure to patronize businesses who make it easier on you to do so... we've got an independent pharmacy that keeps a comparatively huge stock of fragrance free hair and skin care products on hand. They get a lot of my business, and for good reason! If I shop there, I'm not limited to my choice of 3 possible hair products.

[Sillage]

So this could basically happen to anyone using a chemical dye (with PPD). :bigeyes: Not alarmist, just stating a fact.

Good thing it's highly highly unlikely to happen because I'm still dyeing my hair with a PPD dye.

http://i.imgur.com/soDH7.gif

[ravenreed]

I don't know what symptoms you get from scents, but I get a wicked, instant migraine and feel lightheaded. I noticed when I was taking MSM (I thought it might help my joint pain) that although I was still affected by the same scents, it was much less severe.


*shrug*

Allergic reactions can turn fatal at any time, and you won't necessarily have warning. Some kinds of allergies can cause fatal reactions due to exposure to a few molecules of the allergen. If I let my fear of my weird allergic reactions control my life, I'd be trying to live in a clean room bubble. And since some of my weird allergic reactions are about as rare as the PPD one... I definitely do have reason for concern.

Since I don't actually want to live in a clean room, I take reasonable precautions. I know fragrances in general are problematic for me, so I use fragrance free products for the most part. I can't make everyone else in the world go fragrance free tho... and even for myself, it is a for the most part thing. There are scented products that I can and do use safely. Fortunately or unfortunately (I never can quite decide which) I'm the most fragrance sensitive person in my family, so I wind up being the test bunny for everyone else. If something is safe for me, chances are very good the rest of us can use the product too.

There are plenty of fragrance sensitive people tho who are sensitive to the stuff that is safe for me, and are fine with the stuff that gives me trouble. There just aren't simple rules for this kind of thing.

If you've got reason to be concerned, definitely do a patch test with new products. Read ingredients lists. Make sure to patronize businesses who make it easier on you to do so... we've got an independent pharmacy that keeps a comparatively huge stock of fragrance free hair and skin care products on hand. They get a lot of my business, and for good reason! If I shop there, I'm not limited to my choice of 3 possible hair products.

[infinity_girl]

I used to dye my hair with henna a lot. I found it left my hair feeling dry and I never really achieved any of the supposed benefits of henna. I got sick of the orangey colour and bought a box dye a few weeks ago (L'oreal creme gloss dark brown). I was really nervous about doing it as I have read about how bad box dye is supposed to be. Anyway, surprisingly my hair has never felt or looked better. It is smoother, shiny and feels softer. I do use some oils too like Argan but I have also washed my hair and let it dry naturally and it feels great. I don't know what L'Oreal have done but I found my box dye experience 100x better than henna for my hair! I won't be going back although I may try cassia to see if it makes my hair thicker. Do whatever is right for you!

[ravenreed]

I am not anti-box dye, but you should know that they use a lot of silicones and what not to give that shine. It will probably fade over time.


I used to dye my hair with henna a lot. I found it left my hair feeling dry and I never really achieved any of the supposed benefits of henna. I got sick of the orangey colour and bought a box dye a few weeks ago (L'oreal creme gloss dark brown). I was really nervous about doing it as I have read about how bad box dye is supposed to be. Anyway, surprisingly my hair has never felt or looked better. It is smoother, shiny and feels softer. I do use some oils too like Argan but I have also washed my hair and let it dry naturally and it feels great. I don't know what L'Oreal have done but I found my box dye experience 100x better than henna for my hair! I won't be going back although I may try cassia to see if it makes my hair thicker. Do whatever is right for you!

[In2wishin]

^ Of course, I appreciate that people can be allergic to various and different things, but it is really misleading to compare the danger of hairdyes to those of shampoo and conditioner... They are on a wholly different level in terms of danger. For one, I haven't heard of any cases of death or hospitalization from shampoos or conditioners. As for "alarmist", it's more like the opposite, if anything the dangers are still being belittled (what you wrote being a good example).

Allychan already posted some further "horror stories" (thanks!), but here are a few more: http://heidiclarke.webs.com/patchtestimonies.htm
(All these people had even done the patch test before dyeing, so it didn't help a thing, probably more the contrary, as I wrote earlier...)

And as for "being aware of their body and skin and how it reacts and making an informed choice" - what really frightened me in the case of Julia McCabe (linked earlier) was that she had reportedly dyed her hair for years and had never before experienced any problems or reactions to the dye... None at all, until one day when rinsing out the dye she collapses, falls into a coma and later dies. So this could basically happen to anyone using a chemical dye (with PPD). :bigeyes: Not alarmist, just stating a fact. That was a real wake-up call for me. How exactly does being aware how your body and skin reacts help there..?

You are being alarmist because you are taking an extremely rare occurance and turning it into "OMG you use box dye so you can die", while both downplaying the extenuating circumstances of the cases that have happened and belittling those who choose to be moderate in their approach.

I am not a fan of chemical dye but I use it because I am even less of a fan of grey hair on me. I get a little ticked off when someone comes in with blanket statements and minimal backup to the effect that "such and such is bad for everyone because a couple of people had problems". I respect the intelligence of people and their ability to make an informed choice more than that. I have had my say and, since you need to have the final word, have at it. I will no longer respond.

[ravenreed]

Apparently some people with nut allergies react to certain shampoos and conditioners. Since nut allergies can lead to anaphylaxis, I am guessing that they are just as dangerous for those folks. Just because it doesn't make the news doesn't mean it doesn't happen. FWIW, according to my Allergist, allergies can suddenly get worse, and something that just makes you slightly ill today can be fatal tomorrow.



^ Of course, I appreciate that people can be allergic to various and different things, but it is really misleading to compare the danger of hairdyes to those of shampoo and conditioner... They are on a wholly different level in terms of danger. For one, I haven't heard of any cases of death or hospitalization from shampoos or conditioners. As for "alarmist", it's more like the opposite, if anything the dangers are still being belittled (what you wrote being a good example).

Allychan already posted some further "horror stories" (thanks!), but here are a few more: http://heidiclarke.webs.com/patchtestimonies.htm
(All these people had even done the patch test before dyeing, so it didn't help a thing, probably more the contrary, as I wrote earlier...)

And as for "being aware of their body and skin and how it reacts and making an informed choice" - what really frightened me in the case of Julia McCabe (linked earlier) was that she had reportedly dyed her hair for years and had never before experienced any problems or reactions to the dye... None at all, until one day when rinsing out the dye she collapses, falls into a coma and later dies. So this could basically happen to anyone using a chemical dye (with PPD). :bigeyes: Not alarmist, just stating a fact. That was a real wake-up call for me. How exactly does being aware how your body and skin reacts help there..?

[Sillage]

Anyway, surprisingly my hair has never felt or looked better. It is smoother, shiny and feels softer.

I have the same experience using chemical dye: it really tames my white hair and makes it feel smoother and softer. Not sure how that works, but I do know it's NOT from silicone as the effect lasts thru shampoos and clarifying.

[ravenreed]

As someone who is reactive to darned near everything, I find it puzzling that I had a horrible, instant reaction to soap nuts and never one from boxed dyes with PPD. I have decided that 20+ years of using them was probably pushing my luck a bit and switched to Elumen, but there are people who are allergic to that too. Plus, I have allergic reactions to the strong perfume they use in Elumen. *sigh*


You are being alarmist because you are taking an extremely rare occurance and turning it into "OMG you use box dye so you can die", while both downplaying the extenuating circumstances of the cases that have happened and belittling those who choose to be moderate in their approach.

I am not a fan of chemical dye but I use it because I am even less of a fan of grey hair on me. I get a little ticked off when someone comes in with blanket statements and minimal backup to the effect that "such and such is bad for everyone because a couple of people had problems". I respect the intelligence of people and their ability to make an informed choice more than that. I have had my say and, since you need to have the final word, have at it. I will no longer respond.

[Xxanderia]

Well just to clarify to everyone, I was indeed specifically asking what sort of damage the dye does to the hair itself, not the health afflictions. But interesting to know nonetheless. :)

[kerbear]

gosh I WISH I could use commercial hair dye again. I've dyed my hair since I was 13 (am now almost 32) I have been practically every color of the rainbow lol. About 2 yrs ago, it finally caught up to me. I'm not sure if I ended up developing an allergy to the PPD or if my hair just couldn't handle it anymore. Anyway, I literally had to cut my hair off into a 'boy cut' and even then, if i even TOUCHED my hair it would fall out. I was heartbroken and a little over a year ago started using henna. My hair is STILL in the slow process of growing out (I'm to my collar bone now) but the condition my hair is in now is the best I've probably ever seen it in my life. I thought about just going back to my natural color, but honestly the henna colored part of my hair looks SO HEALTHY even compared to my 'natural' roots that I just can't let them get long before I decide to henna again.

Honestly, if I could still use commercial dye, I probably would.... the convenience factor alone for ME is worth it. My hair just can't handle it anymore! These kinds of questions are similar to people asking about eating organic vs non organic though, I say do what you feel you can afford/like to do :)

[MidnightMoon]

I have used box dyes for about 4 years and...you can really tell the difference between undyed hair and my virgin hair. I stopped using them a year and a half ago and I wish I hadn't dyed my hair back then, yes it look cool and stuff but the colour didn't really suit me, I had roots to dye over all the time, and the worst part is how fried your hair ends up and in my case lots of hair loss...lots of tapering...my ends are almost see-through because of using dyed which made my hair break off and fall out.

[turtlelover]

I hate to admit it, but my hair is much better behaved since I put demi-perm dye on it. My out of control gray hairs seem tamer and not as rough textured. I wasn't bothered by the color of my gray hairs, but rather by their texture. Since demi color only penetrates the cuticle rather than the whole hair shaft, and it tends to "fill in" rough areas. Based on my own experience, the most damage when coloring occurs from lightening hair, and from bigger color changes requiring permanent color and higher than a Level 10 developer. If you dye the same hair over and over with permanent color, there will be damage, but even if you opt for permanent color, you can just re-touch roots w/ the permanent color and freshen the ends w/ demi occasionally -- even using as low as a 5 volume developer, and have MUCH less damage. I've had very good experiences over the years w/ demi deposit only dyes. The only downside I can see at the moment is having to re-touch the roots, which I HATE. The demi dye that I use (Ion) has a milder relative to PPD, but it isn't nearly as strong. I can't see myself going back to permanent dye w/ full blown PPD at this point when the demi dyes work so well and cover all the gray w/ no problem.

[In2wishin]

I hate to admit it, but my hair is much better behaved since I put demi-perm dye on it. My out of control gray hairs seem tamer and not as rough textured. I wasn't bothered by the color of my gray hairs, but rather by their texture. Since demi color only penetrates the cuticle rather than the whole hair shaft, and it tends to "fill in" rough areas. Based on my own experience, the most damage when coloring occurs from lightening hair, and from bigger color changes requiring permanent color and higher than a Level 10 developer. If you dye the same hair over and over with permanent color, there will be damage, but even if you opt for permanent color, you can just re-touch roots w/ the permanent color and freshen the ends w/ demi occasionally -- even using as low as a 5 volume developer, and have MUCH less damage. I've had very good experiences over the years w/ demi deposit only dyes. The only downside I can see at the moment is having to re-touch the roots, which I HATE. The demi dye that I use (Ion) has a milder relative to PPD, but it isn't nearly as strong. I can't see myself going back to permanent dye w/ full blown PPD at this point when the demi dyes work so well and cover all the gray w/ no problem.

How long before your grays showed up again? I have used demi and my white temple floofies were back to their original color in 2 weeks. That i why I went back to permanent.

[Rosetta]

You are being alarmist because you are taking an extremely rare occurance and turning it into "OMG you use box dye so you can die", while both downplaying the extenuating circumstances of the cases that have happened and belittling those who choose to be moderate in their approach.

I am doing none of those things, but if that's what you want to think, I can't help you. It is simply a medical fact that you can die if you use a chemical dye (with PPD). How rare it is (or not) is not much help if you happen to be the one it happens to, nor does a "moderate approach". And I have provided plenty more "backup" than you have for your statements. If you choose to ignore that, again I can't help there. :shrug:
What I said earlier about people mentally blocking out these things was, it seems, even more accurate than I thought.

Anyway, I have already said everything I wanted to, stated the facts and will not be getting back to this, since even trying to give heads-up to people elicits such a negative response (from some).


(ETA: And sorry OP for us slightly hijacking your thread, but glad you didn't mind too much ;) After all these are important matters...)

[DarleneH]

I saved the following from icompact.com several years ago. This is the least damaging dye method I know of other than just a color depositing conditioner without the developer:

"Equal amounts of color and developer - I use 1/2 to 1 oz. of each.

Small amount of lightweight conditioner - I use maybe 2 oz.

You can use shampoo instead of conditioner but it doesn't deposit near the same amount of color as using conditioner does.

(Keep in mind my hair is 35" long though, just a little past my waist, obviously shorter hair will need a lot less...just keep the ratios the same)

If you only want a temporary color - more like the packaged color conditioners you can buy, skip the developer.

Mix only enough for one use, it won't keep. Apply to towel dried hair and leave on for 15 minutes. Rinse.

This is an awesome way of renewing your color inbetween dye jobs. You can use the exact same color you dyed your hair with - something you cannot do with store bought color shampoos/conditioners. I also use it to adjust my color - I can add more red if I want or tone down red with a brown shade.

I use the mixture with the developer maybe once a month, if that - the version without the developer, I've used a few times a week at times - this has NEVER DAMAGED MY HAIR IN ANY WAY when used with this frequency. YMMV, of course." (post by somebody named pamie)

[turtlelover]

How long before your grays showed up again? I have used demi and my white temple floofies were back to their original color in 2 weeks. That i why I went back to permanent.

I touch up new growth every three weeks for the full amount of processing time -- for me, 20 min. w/ heat is KEY to getting the gray to cover well. Every other time I color, I pull color through the rest of my hair w/ 5 volume developer to refresh it, but do NOT need to leave it on very long. You can mix w/ distilled water 1:1 to dilute 10 volume if you only have that. It is a bit of a pain to mix up 2 seperate batches of color and the water can make the color a bit drippy, but it doesn't matter that much as I am applying it to my whole entire head. I'd rather not have to use the stronger developer if I can help it. If I notice a LOT of fading, I might use the 10 volume developer.

I use sulfate free shampoo/conditioner, alternated w/ CO washing to help the color last. I only use sulfates if I feel like I am getting buildup, and even then, I use a color preserve shampoo. I have a lot of red tones in my hair, so I really, really try to avoid sulfates since red fades faster than a lot of other others. I've also learned to avoid strongly acidic or alkaline products/rinses.

[Babyfine]

I hate to admit it, but my hair is much better behaved since I put demi-perm dye on it. My out of control gray hairs seem tamer and not as rough textured. I wasn't bothered by the color of my gray hairs, but rather by their texture. Since demi color only penetrates the cuticle rather than the whole hair shaft, and it tends to "fill in" rough areas. Based on my own experience, the most damage when coloring occurs from lightening hair, and from bigger color changes requiring permanent color and higher than a Level 10 developer. If you dye the same hair over and over with permanent color, there will be damage, but even if you opt for permanent color, you can just re-touch roots w/ the permanent color and freshen the ends w/ demi occasionally -- even using as low as a 5 volume developer, and have MUCH less damage. I've had very good experiences over the years w/ demi deposit only dyes. The only downside I can see at the moment is having to re-touch the roots, which I HATE. The demi dye that I use (Ion) has a milder relative to PPD, but it isn't nearly as strong. I can't see myself going back to permanent dye w/ full blown PPD at this point when the demi dyes work so well and cover all the gray w/ no problem.

This has been my experience.(with demi color) I have mine done in a salon, and she sits me under the dryer for a longer time to seal the color in and cover the greys. Since I live in a rural area in a small town, I imagine having the salon color done isn't as expensive as having it done a larger city. I do have white hairs in front coming out after a few weeks, but since I'm less than 15% grey it's not that noticable, but it does start getting noticable after about 10-12 weeks, when I go back and she touches it up for me. My stylist complimented me the other day saying my hair was in excellent shape for being so fine and fragile and color-treated, and what was I doing? (no heat,stretching shampoos, ect) but I ofter wonder if my hair would be even healthier if I just went virgin or used henna. I do worry about PPD exposure, but I think? that demi colors probably have less than permanent color. Permanent color trashes my hair, including even highlights, which is what I was doing before this stylist recommended demi or semi color only.
I am interested in henna, but it sounds like such a process, and there are some negatives I've seen around the boards(shedding, curl/wave loss,winding up with unwanted colors) but I have a feeling I will try it eventually

[Sillage]

I am doing none of those things, but if that's what you want to think, I can't help you. It is simply a medical fact that you can die if you use a chemical dye (with PPD). How rare it is (or not) is not much help if you happen to be the one it happens to, nor does a "moderate approach". And I have provided plenty more "backup" than you have for your statements. If you choose to ignore that, again I can't help there. :shrug:
What I said earlier about people mentally blocking out these things was, it seems, even more accurate than I thought.


http://i.imgur.com/gUNqI.gif

Yeah, because people aren't acting the way you want them to act they must be blocking things out. :rolleyes:

We all take risks in our lives. Using PPD is a risk I'm willing to take, just like driving a car and flying in a plane. End of story.

[MonaMayfair]

http://i.imgur.com/gUNqI.gif

Yeah, because people aren't acting the way you want them to act they must be blocking things out. :rolleyes:

We all take risks in our lives. Using PPD is a risk I'm willing to take, just like driving a car and flying in a plane. End of story.

Hahhaha! Well said! :)

[eros]

if chemical dyes were deadly, they wouldn't be on the market.

i still can't decide whether i should dye my hair or not. i could care less about the color, but i see alot of people that have dyed their hair and its VERY shiny. makes me wanna dye my hair, just to get shinier hair. anyone have experience with this?

[MonaMayfair]

if chemical dyes were deadly, they wouldn't be on the market.

i still can't decide whether i should dye my hair or not. i could care less about the color, but i see alot of people that have dyed their hair and its VERY shiny. makes me wanna dye my hair, just to get shinier hair. anyone have experience with this?

Don't know if this counts, because it's a vegetable dye, but I've been using Adore dye and it's made my hair extremely shiny (which henna never did) My hair was aways very shiny BEFORE using henna, but henna made it dry and rough (though it gave me more volume, and at the time I wanted it red)
i have lots of friends who dye their hair and have very shiny hair. Actually the people I know well who don't dye their hair (and there aren't many of those) are the ones who have dull looking hair...

[ravenreed]

Uh, sorry. This simply isn't true. LOTS of things are deadly and still on the market, including a fair amount of medications. People die all the time from medication interactions. One has to weigh the benefits with the risks.


if chemical dyes were deadly, they wouldn't be on the market.

i still can't decide whether i should dye my hair or not. i could care less about the color, but i see alot of people that have dyed their hair and its VERY shiny. makes me wanna dye my hair, just to get shinier hair. anyone have experience with this?

[eros]

Don't know if this counts, because it's a vegetable dye, but I've been using Adore dye and it's made my hair extremely shiny (which henna never did) My hair was aways very shiny BEFORE using henna, but henna made it dry and rough (though it gave me more volume, and at the time I wanted it red)
i have lots of friends who dye their hair and have very shiny hair. Actually the people I know well who don't dye their hair (and there aren't many of those) are the ones who have dull looking hair...

ooh, this is what i meant! i think i might dye my hair in my own color to give it shine (sounds stupid,lol.) but i keep reading all these comments how dye makes your hair dry/damaged! so i don't know what to do. was the dye you use permanent/semi permanent?


Uh, sorry. This simply isn't true. LOTS of things are deadly and still on the market, including a fair amount of medications. People die all the time from medication interactions. One has to weigh the benefits with the risks.
...if you look at it that way, EVERYTHING is dangerous and deadly. i'm not saying there aren't deadly products on the market. eggs contain salmonella (+have a much higher death rate than dye.) does that mean eggs are deadly? no, salmonella is. does that mean eggs are off the market? no,because the chances of this happening are one in a million. (well,idk the statistics,but you get my point).

like you said, you have to weigh the benefits with the risks. everything has a risk. but the risk is so stupidly low,there's no reason for real worry.
..heck,by that logic, everything should be off the market.
so, i wouldn't worry about dying from coloring your hair.

also, medications are prescribed and people are warned ALL the time to be careful with medications and complications.
if something commercial like a dye, which A LOT of people buy, were truly deadly it'd be long gone from the market.

[Sillage]

Hahhaha! Well said! :)

Thank you :)



i still can't decide whether i should dye my hair or not. i could care less about the color, but i see alot of people that have dyed their hair and its VERY shiny. makes me wanna dye my hair, just to get shinier hair. anyone have experience with this?

You can get a clear gloss or glaze treatment done. A friend of mine had it done in a salon with Redken Shades EQ in clear and her hair turned out super shiny.

[eros]

Thank you :)



You can get a clear gloss or glaze treatment done. A friend of mine had it done in a salon with Redken Shades EQ in clear and her hair turned out super shiny.

Oooh, hadn't heard of that!! thank you!! i'll look it up. :) is a gloss treatment something you do in the salon, or do you buy it and do it yourself?

[Sillage]

You can do it yourself but be careful about the processing time (which is sometimes shorter than normal dye). Basically these are clear versions of semi/demi permanent dyes. Sally's has several options: L'oreal Color Gems, Ion Color Brilliance, AGEbeautiful, Cairol ColorGloss etc. Make sure you use the right level of developer (I would go with AGEbeautiful's 6 volume) or else you will get lifting.

[MonaMayfair]

ooh, this is what i meant! i think i might dye my hair in my own color to give it shine (sounds stupid,lol.) but i keep reading all these comments how dye makes your hair dry/damaged! so i don't know what to do. was the dye you use permanent/semi permanent?


...if you look at it that way, EVERYTHING is dangerous and deadly. i'm not saying there aren't deadly products on the market. eggs contain salmonella (+have a much higher death rate than dye.) does that mean eggs are deadly? no, salmonella is. does that mean eggs are off the market? no,because the chances of this happening are one in a million. (well,idk the statistics,but you get my point).

like you said, you have to weigh the benefits with the risks. everything has a risk. but the risk is so stupidly low,there's no reason for real worry.
..heck,by that logic, everything should be off the market.
so, i wouldn't worry about dying from coloring your hair.

also, medications are prescribed and people are warned ALL the time to be careful with medications and complications.
if something commercial like a dye, which A LOT of people buy, were truly deadly it'd be long gone from the market.

Eros, the dye I've been using is called Adore, it's a vegetable dye that lasts about 8 washes (depending on your hair's condition I suppose - I'm covering henna, which it wears off more quickly, even though I haven't henna'd the length for well over a year. It lasts much better on my roots which are my natural color)
I'm still experimenting with how long to leave it on, and I'm hoping leaving it on for a much longer time will make it last longer on my hair.
There are a few threads about this dye on here. It comes in all the bright unnatural colors (red, blue, purple, etc) as well as more natural colors.

[DarleneH]

MonaMayfair, are you applying heat for 15 minutes when you use the Adore dye? That's what it says on my bottle, but I suppose I wasted my money because I don't have a heat bonnet with an opening for attaching a hairdryer to.

[MonaMayfair]

MonaMayfair, are you applying heat for 15 minutes when you use the Adore dye? That's what it says on my bottle, but I suppose I wasted my money because I don't have a heat bonnet with an opening for attaching a hairdryer to.
Not for 15 minutes, because I can't be bothered! I wrap it in clingfilm/saran wrap, put a plastic disposable shower cap thing over that, then a hair turban, the heat for a few minutes (just with a hair dryer, but only on warm setting, then leave it on for an hour or so (but next time I'm leaving in on for about 3 hours, hoping it will cover the henna better!

[eros]

thanks everyone :) i'll look for a gloss treatment, and maybe try out the adore dye. we don't have sally over here though, don't live in the US. buut if i do find a gloss treatment, i'll take pics to show you guys :)
oh and Sillage, do you know which other dyes don't cause lifting? i don't like volume/rough texture.

[Sillage]

It's not the dye that causes lifting but rather the developer (or bleach if you're bleaching). The lower the volume of the developer the less lift it will give. So for example most semi permanent dyes are 10 volume developer. You certainly wouldn't want to go over that! I would start with a under 10 volume developer if you can get it.

Just to be clear tho, lift refers to removing color, not making the hair rougher or giving it more volume. For example I use 20 volume developer and it makes my hair smoother and sleeker-- however there is (I assume) some lifting of color. The reason you want to avoid lifting is because your hair won't just become a lighter shade of brown. When hair is lightened it first becomes reddish, then orange, then yellow and finally yellow-white.

Of course if you use a dye that uses no developer there will be no lifting at all but I assume you won't get the smoothing effects either.

[Seeshami]

Generally I let The Naughty Mess get pretty scrungy and oily before I dye. I love the Dream Blond line because they do a really good job with the ash blond colors, have a pre-treatment and a really great shampoo and conditioner that leaves The Naughty Mess happy and fluffy. I also do a deep conditioning the day after and an s&d because it will split what had started and give me a few extras, but hair is going to split. Now The Naughty Mess never has been and never will be well behaved loving hair monster that doesn't eat, throw and loose taming objects when ever possible, it's not in his nature as a hair monster and I don't think dying has any effect besides the inch I need to cut off because it's almost velcro and I am just being difficult and refusing. I also really like John Frieda's intense repair system, shampoo, conditioner and leave in oil. The Naughty Mess absolutely hates with a fiery burning passion Fekkai's colored hair system. He would rather fall out and dye then use it. Silly Dramatic Naughty Mess.