Help needed

[sahiba]

After joining LHC there has been a remarkable improvement in my hair shedding.But the time my hair breaks a lot, and I do mean a lot, is when I am oiling them. I use a warm mixture of castor oil and coconut oil. Please help me .

[Curlsgirl]

After joining LHC there has been a remarkable improvement in my hair shedding.But the time my hair breaks a lot, and I do mean a lot, is when I am oiling them. I use a warm mixture of castor oil and coconut oil. Please help me .

Are you oiling when dry or damp? Also are you putting moisture in your hair? Do you have old damage from chemical color or perms or irons? Oil on my dry hair especially the ends makes them crunchy and drier. It could be the oil for you or it could be you are not getting enough moisture, hard to tell. Can you explain the rest of your routine like what washing routine you use, how you dry, do you brush or comb, what leave-ins if any, is there old damage etc.

[ChloeDharma]

Do you mean that the hair breaks while actually applying the oil? Or that your hair is breaking more in general since starting to oil?
It does sound odd i must admit, maybe misting before oiling might help but i'll be interested to hear the replies to this.
I do find curd/yogurt helps my hair be more flexible and feel stronger.

[Aisha25]

After joining LHC there has been a remarkable improvement in my hair shedding.But the time my hair breaks a lot, and I do mean a lot, is when I am oiling them. I use a warm mixture of castor oil and coconut oil. Please help me .
Is your hairs breaking or just you see some hair fall dear? If you hear snaps while oiling them then maybe it is to rough on the hairs. If it is just shed then sometimes this happens. I would suggest to you that me and Diamondbell have tried is to pour oil onto hand yes,then lightly pat oil onto scalp and hair. After all oil is applied then give scalp nice soft massage. This had helped me reduce fall while applying oils and milk.

Aisha

[Silver & Gold]

Do you mean that the hair breaks while actually applying the oil? Or that your hair is breaking more in general since starting to oil?
It does sound odd i must admit, maybe misting before oiling might help but i'll be interested to hear the replies to this.
I do find curd/yogurt helps my hair be more flexible and feel stronger.

How do you use yogurt on your hair? I'm curious about this. I've used a mask with yogurt as an ingredient on my face and this is very nice. But I'm wondering about your method of using yogurt on your hair and what the benefits are? Also, does it help the scalp? I would imagine it could since it is very nice for the complexion.

[sahiba]

Are you oiling when dry or damp? Also are you putting moisture in your hair? Do you have old damage from chemical color or perms or irons? Oil on my dry hair especially the ends makes them crunchy and drier. It could be the oil for you or it could be you are not getting enough moisture, hard to tell. Can you explain the rest of your routine like what washing routine you use, how you dry, do you brush or comb, what leave-ins if any, is there old damage etc.

I'm oiling them dry.Never applied any color or never ever permed or even ironed.Sorry to sound dumb but What do you mean by moisture? My daily routine is CO with Sauve conditioners every day ,in length I mix quite bit of honey.My leave in is oil,2-4 drops. I oil my hair once to twice a week with castor and coconut oil and that time only I use coneless shampoo .I use combs only.I think I've covered almost everything.

[Islandgrrl]

Try oiling the ends while they are damp. This way you are sealing in the moisture instead of sealing out the moisture as when oiling dry. Took me a while to catch on to this idea, since originally I thought the oil was moisturizing by itself. Once I figured it out - no more crunchy dry ends!

[sahiba]

Do you mean that the hair breaks while actually applying the oil? Or that your hair is breaking more in general since starting to oil?
It does sound odd i must admit, maybe misting before oiling might help but i'll be interested to hear the replies to this.
I do find curd/yogurt helps my hair be more flexible and feel stronger.

Hair breaks while oiling.How to mist?



And Aisha25 , I dont hear snaps ,they keep falling the more I try to massage the oil.In fact the worst is when I comb my hair after oiling ,my comb is filled with them.Actually ,now that I look back it was oil that use to make my hair fall so badly that I stopped oiling at the age of 13.


One thing I would like all of you to know that I was suffering from acute dandruff since childhood which was cured by hoemeopathy 10 years back.Just thought you guys should know.:)

[EvaSimone]

I second trying to oil your hair when damp, what has helped is using a leave in conditioner (I use Goth Rosary brand) then sealing over top with a drop of olive oil.

It's possible that your protein/moisture balance is off. Most people need more moisture in their hair then protein unless they chemically relax, coconut oil prevents protein loss so since you are not adding moisture and Suave conditioners have lots of protein you could be overdoing the protein.

One way to get an idea of how your balance is to take a strand of hair while wet and attempt to stretch it. If it stretches 2/3's of the strand's length and then returns to it's original size then your balance is perfect. If it doesn't stetch at all your hair has too much protein and needs moisture. If it stretches and stretches like chewed up bubblegum then you need to add protein.

I've also read that stretching a hair strand causes an undue amount of stress so it isn't the best indication of your balance, but I don't really know how else to check it and that is what I do to my own hair.

But because your hair is snapping with what sounds like very little manipulation it seems like you're having an issue with protein.

[EvaSimone]

I was posting while you were posting so I want to add that it sounds like you are shedding not breaking. If you have a root bulb attached then don't worry you are probably just going through a period of greater shedding, unless it's incredibly heavy for a few weeks I wouldn't worry too much.

I've heard of conditioner only washing causing increased shedding and I believe I have heard the same thing when it comes to scalp oiling although I have not had this issue personally.

[heidi w.]

Usually you don't need to mix your oils. I would dump the castor oil and go with the coconut oil.

CARRIER OIL
Coconut Oil, Apricot, Jojoba Oil -- these are carrier oils. They carry an essential oil's scent.

ESSENTIAL OIL
The oils that have an aroma. Never use straight from the vial on skin. Be especially cautious if pregnant or gestating. Take care in applying to babies or children. Essential oil is highly distilled and the actual oils derived of a plant. AND it's an oil -- so be careful in the sun!!! (some can even raise blood pressure.) Check safety sheet precautions per essential oil.

There are oils that come pre-blended such as MONOI OIL.

Most essential oils claim on the label of the vial "in Jojoba Oil". However, this is not a high enough dilution ratio. This is still too pure plant oil to apply directly.

ALWAYS CONDUCT A SKIN PATCH TEST BEFORE USING ESSENTIAL OIL (OR EVEN CARRIER OIL) ON THE PERSON'S SKIN. REACTIONS CAN AND DO SOMETIMES OCCUR!!

You can take up a small drop or so of an essential oil and place it in your palm after you've applied the tweensiest of bits of coconut oil to your palm. Rub together and apply to dry hair OR put all in a spritzer bottle and spritz on to damp hair. On the palms, you should only see a sheer film of oil that is perceived only when tilting the open palm about in light. You should not pool the oil in the palm. It's easy to add more, and a real pain if there's too much. My experience is that many are using too much. When I demo the oiling, most respond they think their problem has been using too much.

You can oil wet or dry -- I'm betting you'll like wet better if you have any body (wave to curl) to your hair.

You are equating oiling with hair breakage. This is not impossible, but it's unusual. My bet's on something else is causing the breaking.

How do you distribute the oil? What mechanism?
a comb....?

Is your hair dry, as in dry hair once air dried and no oil applied whatsoever ... that is, are your products drying out your hair?

What is your present length? When did you last have a trim?

Where is the breakage...mostly the last inch to 3 inches .... or from higher up?

Do you dust the hair -- folks here call it S&D?

When was the last time you had any sort of trim?

Why do you wash your hair daily?

You make a case for virgin hair: no chemical treatments, no color, perm, straightening of any kind, no blow dryers, no heat of any kind......is this so?

Are you using any styling products such as any spray, glossers, mousse, gel....these often have silicone in them, and can cause breakage to occur. Silicones can occur in hair wash products, as well.

Hair breakage is typically about damage or over stressed as in over stretched. Hair breaks because the cuticle layer has its structure compromised and perhaps also the cortex at that point is likewise condition. Breakage can occur in issues of too little or more likely, too much, protein in one's hair care products.

Do you apply any kind of leave-in and then also oil? Are you leaving any of that conditioner in the hair for the duration?? This could be the problem, possibly. I once used a shampoo/conditioner, and then a leave-in. The leave-in put me over the top in terms of protein and my hair suddenly and immediately began to break off significantly. I stopped and just as suddenly all breakage ceased. I have a feeling that something is going on in the mixing or blending of things that gets virgin hair to breakage.

Castor oil is not an oil I would recommend using on hair. Although vegetable based, it tends to be really viscous and thick, at least in my experience. Are you using a Black Hair product???? Black hair products tend to have a lot of protein in them for a reason. Caucasian hair does not need this much application of such, usually, especially if virgin hair.

The castor oil seed contains ricin, a highly poisonous water-soluble protein under the label of a lectin. I am not positive this would leach through in any way that's significant in castor oil itself, but I have reason to believe that some protein may well be present somehow given that all oils are extracted from plant, seed and the organic matter itself. What about trying to eliminate that castor oil and then see about the breakage -- if it calms? The below quote indicates that the process of getting oil from the seed eliminates the ricin, the poison...., the protein. SO I could be all (forgive the pun) all wet. I'm taking a stab in the dark here!

There are those on LHC such as Gladtobemom who are very smart about chemistry and science, and can explain things better than me on these points.

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/castor-oil
The active poison in the castor bean is ricin, a deadly water-soluble protein called a lectin. The ricin is left in the meal or cake after the oil is extracted from the bean, so castor oil does not contain any of the poison. On page 2 this article discusses the use of castor oil in hair tonics -- hair tonics in days of yore were mostly quackery. It may still be used sometimes in cosmetics, apparently.

http://www.suave.com/
There's a bunch of conditioners that Suave has. If you click on products, conditioners, and then a given conditioner, you can rollover ingredients and see the ingredients listed.

Hope this helps somehow,
heidi w.

[ChloeDharma]

How do you use yogurt on your hair? I'm curious about this. I've used a mask with yogurt as an ingredient on my face and this is very nice. But I'm wondering about your method of using yogurt on your hair and what the benefits are? Also, does it help the scalp? I would imagine it could since it is very nice for the complexion.

I keep meaning to use it as a face mask actually.
If your skin likes it then i'd almost put money on your scalp liking it....it's acidic so another plus point....and has been used as a remedy for things like dandruff.
There are lots of ways to use it really, you could try it as a replacement for conditioner in an SMT, i sometimes add it to herb wash/conditioner mixes....i suppose really you can think of it as a type of conditioner and anything you can think of to add to that can be added to yogurt.

Sahiba, i agree that what you describe sounds more like shedding than breakage. Some people don't get on with oil, but maybe try not using the castor oil like Heidi suggested, though i find it excellent. Or maybe even try changing oils to something like sesame? Misting is very easy, you just put some water in a spray bottle and spray your hair with it so that it is damp. You can add things to it as you want, like aloe vera gel, a bit of oil, or use an infusion of a herb. But another idea might be to only oil your length for a while and see if you still loose hairs. It might be something to do with your scalp and oil that's the problem as opposed to your actual hair.
Also, you sound like you wash alot.....have you tried reducing washes? I also find i shed more when i CO wash as opposed to herb washes (shikakai, methi etc) in fact when i herb wash i hardly notice any hairs fall at all.

[Silver & Gold]

I keep meaning to use it as a face mask actually.
If your skin likes it then i'd almost put money on your scalp liking it....it's acidic so another plus point....and has been used as a remedy for things like dandruff.
There are lots of ways to use it really, you could try it as a replacement for conditioner in an SMT, i sometimes add it to herb wash/conditioner mixes....i suppose really you can think of it as a type of conditioner and anything you can think of to add to that can be added to yogurt.

Thanks for the information on yogurt for hair.

I really like yogurt in a mask. I blend yogurt, honey, very finely ground almonds and ground oatmeal. Leave it on the face for a while (I often do it while I have my hair up while doing SMT - I can't tell you how sexy the look is). When I rinse I moisten my face and treat it like a scrub, the ground almonds and oatmeal do a fine job. When I'm done my face is a smooth as a baby's butt. I love it.

[ChloeDharma]

Thanks for the information on yogurt for hair.

I really like yogurt in a mask. I blend yogurt, honey, very finely ground almonds and ground oatmeal. Leave it on the face for a while (I often do it while I have my hair up while doing SMT - I can't tell you how sexy the look is). When I rinse I moisten my face and treat it like a scrub, the ground almonds and oatmeal do a fine job. When I'm done my face is a smooth as a baby's butt. I love it.

Oooooh that sounds lovely! I used to do honey masks on my skin back when i got spots and that made it feel great. That recipe is almost exactly like one i thought of making up to try.
I have to say, you are a bloody good advert for it ;)

[Silver & Gold]

Oooooh that sounds lovely! I used to do honey masks on my skin back when i got spots and that made it feel great. That recipe is almost exactly like one i thought of making up to try.
I have to say, you are a bloody good advert for it ;)

Oh, you'll love it. One tiny warning though, if you let yourself lick your lips you may be tempted to eat it all off your face before it has time to do it's work. It's yummy! I also spread it on my neck and décolletage. Then I just jump in the shower when I'm ready to rinse everything off. About 20 minutes is good for the face mask, so I wait to apply it if I want to leave the SMT on longer.

And thanks for the lovely compliment, it made me smile.

[sahiba]

Oh, you'll love it. One tiny warning though, if you let yourself lick your lips you may be tempted to eat it all off your face before it has time to do it's work. It's yummy! I also spread it on my neck and décolletage. Then I just jump in the shower when I'm ready to rinse everything off. About 20 minutes is good for the face mask, so I wait to apply it if I want to leave the SMT on longer.

And thanks for the lovely compliment, it made me smile.


Can we get back to me please. :rant: Just kidding.:)

[Silver & Gold]

Can we get back to me please. :rant: Just kidding.:)

Ahhhhh, you caught me . . . guilty, guilty thread-jacker . . .

I wish I were smart enough to advise you on your question but since I'm not, may I offer you a :cookie: as proper penance?

[NurseMama]

Have you determined if it is shedding or breakage yet? My ends get really crunchy if I put oil on dry hair, so I second the damp oiling.

[Martha]

Hi Evasimone,

Can you remember what the reason for more shedding when doing CO washing? I can't see why this would happen!

Thanks so much!

[Curlsgirl]

Can we get back to me please. :rant: Just kidding.:)

:spitting:Hee hee now that's funny!

[sahiba]

Ahhhhh, you caught me . . . guilty, guilty thread-jacker . . .

I wish I were smart enough to advise you on your question but since I'm not, may I offer you a :cookie: as proper penance?

Accepted.:yumm:

But seriously guys, I want nice long hair like most of you and for that I know I need oil.Do you think I am allergic to it?
Nursemama,whether breakage or shedding, why only when oiling?

[NurseMama]

Accepted.:yumm:

But seriously guys, I want nice long hair like most of you and for that I know I need oil.Do you think I am allergic to it?
Nursemama,whether breakage or shedding, why only when oiling?

I'm so sorry! I missed this!

I honestly don't know if my hair breaks more, but it is crunchier. I found that jojoba oil works better for my hair than coconut and that damp oiling is an absolute necessity. Have you had better luck yet?

I am thinking of making Fox's Shea Butter recpie this weekend and trying that.

[Blueglass]

Is the breakage from the crown or at bottom? Either way, I'm not sure theres much you can do. Morrocco method has some good products. They sell a colorless "henna" (probably cassia) that could strenghten and reduce frizz. If possible, that would help the most. It's certainly can't change your color, through it may for a blonde or a silver, (maybe). He's also got differt oils, but the oils can be pricely. I often feel my hair sheds more when I don't trim. I know you can't trim. If you have thinning and breakage at the crown you may need Rogaine, (which I think I need frankly).

[Gothic Lolita]

Has your hair been like that for quite a while or has this shedding just occured now? My mom told me something about seasonal shedding when I was afraid because I was shedding really hard for a few days.

I've read many times on LHC that people realize more shedding while doing CO. I don't remember the exact reason, but it had something to do with the hair folicle and the conditioner making the scalp very soft so that it can't hold all hair.

[heidi w.]

I've read many times on LHC that people realize more shedding while doing CO. I don't remember the exact reason, but it had something to do with the hair folicle and the conditioner making the scalp very soft so that it can't hold all hair.

[underscore added by heidi w. so folks know what I am responding to]

What?!! This is ridiculous. The hair follicle holds the hair by the root. I just can't even answer this idea it's so silly. It's not even anatomically correct.

The only reason a hair sheds is the following:
1. overmanipulation
2. pulled on too hard or stressed upon
3. it's time to release the hair (the normal process)
4. bacterial or fungal infection
5. scalp skin issues that will affect the follicle (there are A LOT of possibilities out there) -- some on top of the scalp skin affecting the skin itself and some under the surface of the skin (ringworm....)
6. even dandruff, in some instances, can cause some hair loss
7. nutritional issues such as anemia (low iron)
8 medical issues such as thyroid, polycystic fibrosis, -- anything hormonal, even heart and diabetes and more can affect hair
9. various medications may cause issues (usually because of the health concern and not the medicine per se ... but chemo is a certain type of 'medicine' and some chemo treatments do cause hair loss)
10. waited too long between hair washes and more hair begins to shed (goes to bacterial issues and upset of the acid mantle balance)

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Accepted.:yumm:

But seriously guys, I want nice long hair like most of you and for that I know I need oil.Do you think I am allergic to it?
Nursemama,whether breakage or shedding, why only when oiling?

It's not impossible to be allergic or have a reaction to a carrier and/or essential oil. Therefore conduct a skin patch test and see if you get redness or a rash or bumps. Then you'll have an answer.

Only oil the length from about the earlobes on down. Allow sebum to handle your scalp skin. Do not apply oil to scalp skin. You can oil all the hair heavily in anticipation of a hair wash if you want. But oiling to leave in is for hair length, not the scalp.

I wonder that you're going into the hair and pulling too hard. It could be as simple as that. This can cause breakage.

I oil hair after it's detangled. I do it dry. But waves-to-curlies will prefer, usually, spritzing it on the hair with a mist bottle (blend a carrier oil in water) and apply while hair is damp -- not sopping wet -- damp.

Breakage can occur if protein is imbalanced in hair products and leave-ins. Are you using any leave-in other than a carrier oil?

Tea Tree Oil is a strong astringent oil and should be used sparingly on skin and first with a test to assure no reactions.

heidi w.

[spidermom]

Get rid of the castor oil. I've done some research and have not found that it has any benefits for hair. Here are some oils that do: coconut, olive, apricot kernal, avocado.

My technique for oiling is to first separate my hair into 2 sections, half in front of each shoulder. I apply 2-3 drops of oil to my hand and rub my palms together, then take the hair in front of one shoulder between 2 palms, sliding palms lightly down the hair several times. Then do the same thing on the other side.

When my hair is dry, I comb it.

[sahiba]

It's not impossible to be allergic or have a reaction to a carrier and/or essential oil. Therefore conduct a skin patch test and see if you get redness or a rash or bumps. Then you'll have an answer.

Only oil the length from about the earlobes on down. Allow sebum to handle your scalp skin. Do not apply oil to scalp skin. You can oil all the hair heavily in anticipation of a hair wash if you want. But oiling to leave in is for hair length, not the scalp.

I wonder that you're going into the hair and pulling too hard. It could be as simple as that. This can cause breakage.

I oil hair after it's detangled. I do it dry. But waves-to-curlies will prefer, usually, spritzing it on the hair with a mist bottle (blend a carrier oil in water) and apply while hair is damp -- not sopping wet -- damp.

Breakage can occur if protein is imbalanced in hair products and leave-ins. Are you using any leave-in other than a carrier oil?

Tea Tree Oil is a strong astringent oil and should be used sparingly on skin and first with a test to assure no reactions.

heidi w.

Actually I am using some other oil instead of carrier oil as a leave in.I am giving you the ingredients , please have a look;
medhika
bilva
amalaki
chanaka
arishtaka
bhringaraja
nimba
This leave is an ayurvedic oil.I hope it helps.:)

[Aisha25]

Actually I am using some other oil instead of carrier oil as a leave in.I am giving you the ingredients , please have a look;
medhika
bilva
amalaki
chanaka
arishtaka
bhringaraja
nimba
This leave is an ayurvedic oil.I hope it helps.:)
This oil is very nice one it shouldnt be making the hair fall.

[heidi w.]

Actually I am using some other oil instead of carrier oil as a leave in.I am giving you the ingredients , please have a look;
medhika
bilva
amalaki
chanaka
arishtaka
bhringaraja
nimba
This leave is an ayurvedic oil.I hope it helps.:)

I have no idea about these oils. I recommend trying an internet search and see what you find. Share with us if you don't mind. Spidermom and I have both suggested getting rid of the castor oil. (I suggested it much earlier in this thread.) Have you? I assume so. Castor oil is NOT a carrier oil!

I wonder that you're pulling on your hair when you apply? What is your application method? I do it with flat palms, and then use a BBB to distribute. Many do not like a BBB and it's a particular way to use this. 2 MAIN THINGS: NOT ON WET HAIR and DO NOT DETANGLE WITH THIS BRUSH. This is a polishing tool only.

I assume your hair has some wave? Have you tried applying by spritzing on with a misting bottle while the hair is damp, not wet? This saves over manipulating and pulling on hair potentially.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Are you applying this oil to scalp skin or only to hair length?

Are you applying anything else to your hair besides this oil as your leave-in?

What products do you use to wash/condition your hair?

How much hair are you losing?

Are you applying this oil to damp hair with hands?

heidi w.

[sahiba]

Are you applying this oil to scalp skin or only to hair length?

Are you applying anything else to your hair besides this oil as your leave-in?

What products do you use to wash/condition your hair?

How much hair are you losing?

Are you applying this oil to damp hair with hands?

heidi w.

Only to the hair length.
No.
For washing I use a herbal shampoo which is coneless and Suave as conditioner .
Approximately 200 only while oiling but usually not even 50 a day.
yes.

Thanks for showing so much interest in my hair .:)

[sahiba]

Alright, now I do not know how many of you are going to react but I actually use cotton to apply oil. I warm the oil and then make small partings with a tailcomb in hair and dip cotton in oil and apply on the scalp.When there is no scope for more oil then I gently massage my scalp with finger tips .Then like Spidermom make 2 partings in hair ;starting from below , comb it with a wide toothed comb for detangling and then braid it.My hair hates brushes.

I have given up Castor oil ,btw.:)

[danacc]

Try NOT applying the oil to the scalp at all. The cotton doesn't bother me; normally, the scalp makes oil that is perfect for itself and the hair. Since you see more hair shed when you oil, your scalp (follicles) may react badly to the oil. And you don't need to add oil to your scalp to help your hair. Your scalp will do that in the best way all by itself.

You can continue to oil your hair. With long hair, the scalp oil usually does not go all the way down the hair. This is the main reason to add the oil. The scalp oil will take care of the hair down to about the bottom of your ears. So try adding the oil to your hair starting at the bottom of your ears. Do not get any on your scalp.

As others have said, if your hair feels "crunchy" or brittle when you oil it dry, try oiling it damp. If it feels soft and flexible when you oil it dry, you do not need to make it damp first. (I oil dry, but your hair may react differently.)

Try NOT oiling the scalp, just the hair below the bottom of the ear, and see if that results in less hair shed.

[spidermom]

Try NOT applying the oil to the scalp at all. The cotton doesn't bother me; normally, the scalp makes oil that is perfect for itself and the hair. Since you see more hair shed when you oil, your scalp (follicles) may react badly to the oil. And you don't need to add oil to your scalp to help your hair. Your scalp will do that in the best way all by itself.

You can continue to oil your hair. With long hair, the scalp oil usually does not go all the way down the hair. This is the main reason to add the oil. The scalp oil will take care of the hair down to about the bottom of your ears. So try adding the oil to your hair starting at the bottom of your ears. Do not get any on your scalp.

As others have said, if your hair feels "crunchy" or brittle when you oil it dry, try oiling it damp. If it feels soft and flexible when you oil it dry, you do not need to make it damp first. (I oil dry, but your hair may react differently.)

Try NOT oiling the scalp, just the hair below the bottom of the ear, and see if that results in less hair shed.

This is my suggestion as well.