Men's Hair is "Different"?

[Cania]

Has anyone else noticed that men seem to be actively discouraged from taking care of their hair?

DBF went to university two weeks ago. His mother has always been horrible about his beautiful, shoulder length red hair. He straightened it for the first year we were together, then I realised he actually has wonderful 2b/2c hair and he doesn't need to touch it. Wash, condition and go.

His mother refused to let him buy conditioner with his toiletries to take with him and told him he'll have to wash his hair with shower gel. I saw him this weekend and it was crying out for moisture!

It's sorted now he's moved away from home, but I was mortified. His hair is longer than hers (chin length) yet she insists on conditioner for herself.
Why do people think men's hair behaves differently to women's? :confused:

[auburntressed]

I have no idea why his mother would think that way about his hair, nor have I really encountered situations like this.

I can tell you right off the bat from my own perspective: I am severely turned off by guys who have dirty, greasy, or otherwise un-cared for hair. It doesn't matter if it is waist length or buzzed. Hair that is dirty and gross on a guy seriously puts me off.

Though I have noticed that a lot of other people seem to not care at all if a guy has disgusting hair.

[WaitingSoLong]

Probably because women are blamed with all the "hormonal monthly changes" and stuff, plus women tend to dye, heat style, and otherwise damage their hair and men typically don't.

But I am here to tell you, after two teenage sons, boys have the same hormonal fluxes as women and get away with it because they don't have periods. I cannot say MEN do, as I have never noticed that with any fully grown man.

All my guys have very greasy hair (DH, two sons). My younger son (16) has learned to take care of his better now. If he goes two days without washing, he has the greasiest hair you have ever seen. He also has a scalp condition and needs special shampoo.

[WaitingSoLong]

I had another thought....taking care of one's hair could be seen as feminine since all the media gears that towards women, so some guys may see a lack of hair care as masculine. Just guessing here.

[KwaveT]

This kind of view from others don't surprise me at all. I begin to wonder if my mother's favorite is "Men don't fill in blank". Men don't do this and men don't do that. I get it with my nail length, hair length, shave my body including legs and underarms, pants length (I like pants at least couple inches above top of my ankle). I other day bought a couple of boy's (I have a small waist) skinny fit jeans. I get third degree that men don't wear skinny jeans. When it comes to grooming and appearance men certainly get third degree if they go anywhere outside the MANBOX. You also get the message that it is inappropriate for men to expose their feet. I use dress sandals with my dress clothes because I don't like close toe shoes. Men are made to cover their feet in situations women aren't required too rather it is out in world or in the workplace. I have come to conclusion that many have this view that men's feet are gross no matter how well you take care of your feet. I shave excess hair off my feet and toes. I apply lotion to them everyday. My feet look better than some women's feet but you aren't going to change people's minds. It is all ignorance and programming. I call all this stuff cultural discrimination. I could go on and on. I will stop here.

[MinderMutsig]

This kind of view from others don't surprise me at all. I begin to wonder if my mother's favorite is "Men don't fill in blank". Men don't do this and men don't do that. I get it with my nail length, hair length, shave my body including legs and underarms, pants length (I like pants at least couple inches above top of my ankle). I other day bought a couple of boy's (I have a small waist) skinny fit jeans. I get third degree that men don't wear skinny jeans. When it comes to grooming and appearance men certainly get third degree if they go anywhere outside the MANBOX. You also get the message that it is inappropriate for men to expose their feet. I use dress sandals with my dress clothes because I don't like close toe shoes. Men are made to cover their feet in situations women aren't required too rather it is out in world or in the workplace. I have come to conclusion that many have this view that men's feet are gross no matter how well you take care of your feet. I shave excess hair off my feet and toes. I apply lotion to them everyday. My feet look better than some women's feet but you aren't going to change people's minds. It is all ignorance and programming. I call all this stuff cultural discrimination. I could go on and on. I will stop here.

I just want to point out this as something that might be interesting to you: http://toepaintguy.blogspot.nl/

I take care of my feet and keep my toe nails polished most of the time but what that man can do with a bottle of polish is damn near perfection. I'll see his feet over mine any day of the week.

[KwaveT]

I have seen that nail polish blog. I have looked at several of them. With my three old nephew copying my behavior it would see off a firestorm in my family. He already wants to use a pocketbook like I do. I have no doubt nail polish would do same thing. My family is already telling me to keep my pocketbook away from him. They are probably afraid of all the bullying he would take in school from these behaviors. I have no doubt that this would grieve the Holy Spirit setting off this eternal war in my family. I wish they were just not so much restriction on freedom of expression for men. Somebody else sit most of these boundaries and it was not God. I am fighting man made religion traditions here.

[EndlessSunshine]

When we got married my husband had chin length beautiful hair. He used what ever was in the shower for shampoo. So normally V05 or pantene. He would just run his hands through to comb it.

[WaitingSoLong]

Somebody else sit most of these boundaries and it was not God. I am fighting man made religion traditions here.

Well said. And I won't comment further because this topic really miffs me!

[neko_kawaii]

I had a boyfriend in high school with remarkably soft hair. I commented on it once and he said it was from using two applications of conditioner. I gave him a horrified look which he took to mean, "Men don't use conditioner," but I was thinking about the expense of it, LOL.

I think men should be able to dress in any fashion they choose. Makes me think of a bumper sticker I saw years ago which read, "Real men wear skirts."

[ArienEllariel]

I just want to point out this as something that might be interesting to you: http://toepaintguy.blogspot.nl/

I take care of my feet and keep my toe nails polished most of the time but what that man can do with a bottle of polish is damn near perfection. I'll see his feet over mine any day of the week.

HOLY COW! *nail envy* That's just..not fair. I don't think my painting skills will ever be that good.

[CurlyCurves]

I just want to point out this as something that might be interesting to you: http://toepaintguy.blogspot.nl/

I take care of my feet and keep my toe nails polished most of the time but what that man can do with a bottle of polish is damn near perfection. I'll see his feet over mine any day of the week.

Oh WOW! I'm not even a nail polish gal and I'm drooling!

[torrilin]

My partner wears his hair quite short. He's a 3a or so, and he's got psoriasis, so he has to be quite careful about products. For him, long hair is too much work. But he's quite happy to use conditioner, lotion and various other stuff if it doesn't cause skin irritation that will trigger a psoriasis attack.

I'm pretty sure one reason he loves me is I make sure to keep a pretty hefty supply of soaps, shampoos, lotions and potions on hand that he can use. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be comfortable just because he's a guy.

[AnnaJamila]

Does she like his long hair? If not she may have been trying to force him to cut it by making sure it looked like ish.

[AnnaJamila]

you know, men or women I almost never like nail polish on people unless it's a "natural" looking color. Lol, as natural as shellack ever will be!

[shutterpillar]

OP - it sounds to me like the mother might be jealous and is sabotaging her sons hair care. I mean, what mother wont even buy their kid a bottle of shampoo?

BUT that is just what it looks like to me from the outside. I obviously don't know these people, or know how their minds work.


I do think men's hair care is definitely more ..... simplistic..... than women's. My husband didnt even use conditioner until a couple months ago when I suggested CO washing his 2b hair. He looked at me like I had two heads.

The same can go for mens fashion, at least at normal department stores. Not much more than polo shirts and t-shirts, or jeans and slacks there. My husband comments about that frequently - how women tend to have more clothing options.

[MinderMutsig]

HOLY COW! *nail envy* That's just..not fair. I don't think my painting skills will ever be that good.


Oh WOW! I'm not even a nail polish gal and I'm drooling!

Right?! The dude has nail polish super powers!

ArienEllariel: the trick is to use an angled eyeliner brush dipped in pure acetone to clean up the edges near the cuticle. Works wonders! But even with that trick I can't get my toenails that perfect. I'm not flexible enough to sit and work like that for that long.

[ladonna]

My dh rhinks he only needs bar soap to wash his hair with, but he shaves his head. He was complaining about his beard being rough and unruly so he let me deep condition it, his beard was so soft and nice looking. And yes my dh has a shaved head with full beard like a Genii.

[Amber_Maiden]

That's just really weird.

[jacqueline101]

I don't know about the hair the whole species is different.

[leslissocool]

They are probably afraid of all the bullying he would take in school from these behaviors. I have no doubt that this would grieve the Holy Spirit setting off this eternal war in my family. I wish they were just not so much restriction on freedom of expression for men. Somebody else sit most of these boundaries and it was not God. I am fighting man made religion traditions here.

THIS.

It's ********. Sorry, my son will put a F*****g tutu if he wants to, and I will personally confront any bully/parent who tries to make him ashamed of who he is. I will stand up for him, against anyone who wants to suppress him.

My son is a total boy, likes cars and all. He's allowed to be what he wants to be, even if that is nail polish, or dolls. Oddly my son is really masculine, but will play dress up fairy with his twin sister and lets her do his hair. He is not ashamed even if he doesn't care for feminine toys. One day, my son might make his daughter REALLY happy letting her put make up on him. That's the kind of people this world needs.

I feel VERY strongly about this, I am so tired of parents thinking people give "ammo" to bullies so they don't let their children be children, or homophobic asses who think wearing ONE dress will "turn" their kid gay. Guess what? I was a bully, I made people cry in bathrooms and skip school I was so mean ( I was abused at home and also bullied, so it was my way to channel things). Anything can be ammo. The only thing that works against it is STANDING UP and the courage to accept yourself. Saying "SO? Why do YOU care, maybe YOU are the inset/derogatory/term?" is what stops bullying.

Breaking your kid's confidence because "he might be bullied" is what gets your kid bullied :rant:.

[MinderMutsig]

THIS.

It's ********. Sorry, my son will put a F*****g tutu if he wants to, and I will personally confront any bully/parent who tries to make him ashamed of who he is. I will stand up for him, against anyone who wants to suppress him.

My son is a total boy, likes cars and all. He's allowed to be what he wants to be, even if that is nail polish, or dolls. Oddly my son is really masculine, but will play dress up fairy with his twin sister and lets her do his hair. He is not ashamed even if he doesn't care for feminine toys. One day, my son might make his daughter REALLY happy letting her put make up on him. That's the kind of people this world needs.

I feel VERY strongly about this, I am so tired of parents thinking people give "ammo" to bullies so they don't let their children be children, or homophobic asses who think wearing ONE dress will "turn" their kid gay. Guess what? I was a bully, I made people cry in bathrooms and skip school I was so mean ( I was abused at home and also bullied, so it was my way to channel things). Anything can be ammo. The only thing that works against it is STANDING UP and the courage to accept yourself. Saying "SO? Why do YOU care, maybe YOU are the inset/derogatory/term?" is what stops bullying.

Breaking your kid's confidence because "he might be bullied" is what gets your kid bullied :rant:.
I think some parents are so concerned about not giving bullies ammo that they are turning into a bully to their kids themselves.

[leslissocool]

I think some parents are so concerned about not giving bullies ammo that they are turning into a bully to their kids themselves.

Yes, this is true. And even if parents don't bully them, they are contributing to the problem. Kids bully what's different, not allowing your child to accept their differences breaks his confidence, and allows the bullying to really get to them.

My stepson had bullying issues. I cannot tell you, once it got handled differently how much the situation has turned around. He used to dress with cute "kid" clothes (that he hated) and kids used to tear him up, he came home crying and had no friends, did bad at school. I pulled him aside, and asked him "do you like those clothes?" he told me he didn't. I took him shopping, he liked outrageous flamboyant clothes, and when, he went to school again he actually got called gay, and teased mercilessly but he actually didn't come home crying at all. Why? He turned around, and just said "You are just jealous because girls like the way I dress". His attitude was completely different, he FELT good. The bullying stopped quickly once they saw he didn't care.

If we as parents accept that our kids are actual individuals who might like unconventional ways (like MANY of us do, I wear men's deodorant and underwear) and let them be who they want to be, we build their confidence which helps them stand up for themselves. I know so many guys who dressed up with tutus and wore their mom's heals and are fine, confident men. I used to think 30 years ago it would be a HUGE taboo, yet I remember my uncles dressing up as hooker for carnival and having fun when they were 15 (I have pictures!), so why is it a huge deal if a kid wants to wear a princess dress now for dress up day? My cousins stole my make up when I was 6, and that doesn't make them any less of a man?

Sorry for the hijack I really do feel strongly about this. I see it all around, people actually came up and said "why does your son have a pink sippy cup?" Ehm because it's his sister's and he wants to drink out of it, and if he likes he'll use it. What am I to take from him, make him cry because he can't have it because he's a boy? His feelings are more important then your social standards, sorry.

[Ambystoma]

OP - it sounds to me like the mother might be jealous and is sabotaging her sons hair care. I mean, what mother wont even buy their kid a bottle of shampoo?



That was my first thought too, I mean red waves sound gorgeous and especially if she keeps hers short it might be a case of the green eyed monster :(.

I love the http://toepaintguy.blogspot.nl/# blog! His cuticles are immaculate! There's another cool guy out there with a nail blog, http://www.onegentsten.com/. He does really nice glossy, professional looking swatches too.

edit: and leslissocool I'm so sorry you have to deal with that sort of nonsense. People can keep their silly (and potentially harmful) antiquated notions to themselves, I mean the proper parenting advice in the days before Harlow's Rhesus monkey attachment studies was "crying is the baby's exercise, a crying baby must never be comforted since oppressive mother love is a dangerous thing". You'll be proven right in the end :blossom:

[Arya]

I have seen that nail polish blog. I have looked at several of them. With my three old nephew copying my behavior it would see off a firestorm in my family. He already wants to use a pocketbook like I do. I have no doubt nail polish would do same thing. My family is already telling me to keep my pocketbook away from him. They are probably afraid of all the bullying he would take in school from these behaviors. I have no doubt that this would grieve the Holy Spirit setting off this eternal war in my family. I wish they were just not so much restriction on freedom of expression for men. Somebody else sit most of these boundaries and it was not God. I am fighting man made religion traditions here.

I thought you might like this picture:


http://20poorandfabulous.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/406187_10150484880831996_623746995_9141823_3735145 94_n.jpg

[gthlvrmx]

Yes, this is true. And even if parents don't bully them, they are contributing to the problem. Kids bully what's different, not allowing your child to accept their differences breaks his confidence, and allows the bullying to really get to them.

My stepson had bullying issues. I cannot tell you, once it got handled differently how much the situation has turned around. He used to dress with cute "kid" clothes (that he hated) and kids used to tear him up, he came home crying and had no friends, did bad at school. I pulled him aside, and asked him "do you like those clothes?" he told me he didn't. I took him shopping, he liked outrageous flamboyant clothes, and when, he went to school again he actually got called gay, and teased mercilessly but he actually didn't come home crying at all. Why? He turned around, and just said "You are just jealous because girls like the way I dress". His attitude was completely different, he FELT good. The bullying stopped quickly once they saw he didn't care.

If we as parents accept that our kids are actual individuals who might like unconventional ways (like MANY of us do, I wear men's deodorant and underwear) and let them be who they want to be, we build their confidence which helps them stand up for themselves. I know so many guys who dressed up with tutus and wore their mom's heals and are fine, confident men. I used to think 30 years ago it would be a HUGE taboo, yet I remember my uncles dressing up as hooker for carnival and having fun when they were 15 (I have pictures!), so why is it a huge deal if a kid wants to wear a princess dress now for dress up day? My cousins stole my make up when I was 6, and that doesn't make them any less of a man?

Sorry for the hijack I really do feel strongly about this. I see it all around, people actually came up and said "why does your son have a pink sippy cup?" Ehm because it's his sister's and he wants to drink out of it, and if he likes he'll use it. What am I to take from him, make him cry because he can't have it because he's a boy? His feelings are more important then your social standards, sorry.
wowwww this is amazing. im with you 100%, screw the standards and let your kids be happy! my kids arent going to have that stiff envirvonment and be scolded for doing things that is not "appropriate" for their gender. hellz. no. and the bolded part there, holla! the truth right there, your kids feelings matter more than the stupid social standards. always. i feel pity for the parents who dont see that and continue their ways of not letting their kids have that freedom.


as for the thread, um thats really weird for the mom to do but the son should be able to do whatever they want. and i think i may have heard or seen some of that attitude with someone elses mom or something. but yeah, hair care isnt really taught into our society or i dont know how to explain it and word it, but a lot of people have the idea that guys arent or dont know anything about hair and girls are supposed and its more appropriate that girls do rather than guys. a lot of ppl just keep living that way with those standards and never get out of it. they dont question them. boring!

[Mesmerise]

I find it weird that someone would actively try and prevent their child taking hair conditioner to college. That is just... strange?! I mean, isn't he a grown adult now he's in college? And what is it to her what products he uses? It just seems like weird parenting.

Personally, I don't care if my sons use conditioner or not, as they have short hair... they don't need it for the detangling ;). But they usually like their hair to feel soft anyway, so use it!

[owlathena]

I'm a little hung up on the nail polish thing.

A few weeks ago I was visiting my dads house and I was painting my toenails. My 11 year old brother got really excited and wanted me to paint his. I said "Sure! Go pick out a color from my bag." He picked out a bright blue and a gold and wanted me to alternate every other nail. So I did. He was really happy and loved it. Then his mom (we have diff moms) saw it and was LIVID. She told him that he looked ridiculous and then yelled at me for being a part of it.

...really? WHY? Because hes less of a boy if he has blue toenails? Is allowing him to express himself by decorating his body going to confuse his sexuality? Because yeah, that's totally how it works. Or worse, someone could see his painted toes and make assumptions. And that would be terrible :rolleyes:

An 11 year old girl could have brightly colored nails and people would think it was cute.

She made him scrub it off. I told him I thought it was cool and that I'd do it again for him if she ever went out of town.

ETA: I just had another thought. I bet that if my brother WAS gay, then his mother would accept him for who he is and allow him to express himself in stereotypically feminine ways. Its that he isn't gay that she has a problem with him doing anything that could be considered unmanly (or doesn't appear to be at 11 years old anyway)

[Cania]

I can't quote you all for individual replies without being up super late - it's already 2:42am here :p But I am reading all your replies with interest!

Painted toenails guy is awesome. I'm quite jealous of his skills though, my nails never look that good ¬_¬

leslissocool, no worries about the hijack, it's an interesting topic and I think it's related. You sound like a great mother :)


That was my first thought too, I mean red waves sound gorgeous and especially if she keeps hers short it might be a case of the green eyed monster :(.

I think you might be right. His hair is absolutely gorgeous ad she's never quite known what to do with her own. I can't offer any advice, though, as she would be livid! She doesn't like me to begin with, so that would actually be a life threatening move :p


...as for the thread, um thats really weird for the mom to do but the son should be able to do whatever they want. and i think i may have heard or seen some of that attitude with someone elses mom or something. but yeah, hair care isnt really taught into our society or i dont know how to explain it and word it, but a lot of people have the idea that guys arent or dont know anything about hair and girls are supposed and its more appropriate that girls do rather than guys. a lot of ppl just keep living that way with those standards and never get out of it. they dont question them. boring!

You're the same age as DBF actually, so it's really interesting to hear from you :) It does seem that boys don't grow up with the same knowledge, it's just kind of assumed they won't need it. I'd been reading about hair care in magazines from the age of nine or ten! People should always question the standards society expects of them, I think. How else can we evolve without a bit of reflection and evaluation?


I find it weird that someone would actively try and prevent their child taking hair conditioner to college. That is just... strange?! I mean, isn't he a grown adult now he's in college? And what is it to her what products he uses? It just seems like weird parenting.

Personally, I don't care if my sons use conditioner or not, as they have short hair... they don't need it for the detangling ;). But they usually like their hair to feel soft anyway, so use it!

I think a lot of it in this particular instance is a control issue, I'm not sure though because I'm obviously not a mind reader :p
Heck, she refused to let any of them learn to cook or wash their own clothes until recently (who stops a teenage boy doing his own laundry?! XD) - the twelve year old wasn't even allowed to pour his own drinks last time I was there.
It was actually my mother and myself who taught DBF how to cook and clean his clothes, really, which is a shame. Heck, he helped my mother make my birthday cake last weekend! He's really come a long way, though, I'm very proud of him :) He's coping very well living alone.

Ah, to have short hair again! But it does make even the shortest hair feel lovely, doesn't it? And it's so nice on your scalp sometimes, and the lovely scent~!


I'm a little hung up on the nail polish thing.

A few weeks ago I was visiting my dads house and I was painting my toenails. My 11 year old brother got really excited and wanted me to paint his. I said "Sure! Go pick out a color from my bag." He picked out a bright blue and a gold and wanted me to alternate every other nail. So I did. He was really happy and loved it. Then his mom (we have diff moms) saw it and was LIVID. She told him that he looked ridiculous and then yelled at me for being a part of it.

...really? WHY? Because hes less of a boy if he has blue toenails? Is allowing him to express himself by decorating his body going to confuse his sexuality? Because yeah, that's totally how it works. Or worse, someone could see his painted toes and make assumptions. And that would be terrible :rolleyes:

An 11 year old girl could have brightly colored nails and people would think it was cute.

She made him scrub it off. I told him I thought it was cool and that I'd do it again for him if she ever went out of town.

Bah. I think your brother sounds really cool.
When I was little we had school fair (sp?) things at Christmas. My mother is a trained Beauty Therapist who ran her own business at the time, and she'd come do nails and such to raise money for the PTA or whatever. I remember we always used to get loads of boys at the stall! I was only young, but I even remember one of the much older boys getting his nails painted pink just for a laugh.
I think it actually shows that men are comfortable with their sexuality if they don't think their nail colour has anything to do with their orientation.

If painted nails = feminine, am I too masculine or even a lesbian because I haven't painted my nails in months? Hmmmm... :p

[HintOfMint]

Parts of America are very weird about male grooming or anything having to do with male vanity. Paying too much of attention to it is construed as gay (let's not even get into how there's nothing wrong with being gay in the first place.).

It extends beyond hair. I wanted to go to a nice bar in the city for my birthday last year and a close male friend of mine wanted to get a nice blazer for the occasion and asked for my advice. When my (now ex) boyfriend heard about that, his response was, "that's pretty gay." Caring about one's appearance (beyond working out, I should add) was denigrated as lame and unmasculine.

Man, if just looking nice was considered unmasculine, I can't even imagine the blowback men get for "traditionally feminine" things like long hair, nail polish... etc.

[leslissocool]

Thank you guys! :blossom:

[Suguru]

My Dad washes his hair with soap, but that's because it's about a centimetre long and he doesn't want to waste Mum's fancy "colour-protect" shampoo on it! He's really washing his head more than his hair in any case. My little brother uses the same shampoo as my little sister (they share a bathroom) but doesn't bother with conditioner. Frankly if my hair was short I wouldn't bother with conditioner either. I only condition the hair below my ears anyway.

[MinderMutsig]

The other day DH came out of the shower all giddy telling me to "Smell my hair! Smell my hair!". There was an explosion of fruity flowery smells!

He said he took a look in the mirror before his shower and decided his hair needed conditioner but since I have a ton of different conditioners in there he didn't know which one to pick so he used a teeny tiny drop of every single one. He even used a bit of honey because he figured since it was on the conditioner shelf it was probably meant for hair too. (He was right. :p) He even skipped using shampoo and did a CO wash since he heard me say I do that. He wasn't a fan of CO only and asked me to get him a new SLS-free shampoo for him to use but as far as I know he is now using conditioners too.

Over the next couple of days he kept shoving his head under my nose to ask if it still smelled nice. :o

Anyway, he's not that particular with male/female products. He's totally digging scrubs, body oils, foot scrubs, pedi's, creams, basically everything pampering. The only thing I can't convince him to try is a face mask and gosh with all the woodworking and garden work his pores really could do with one! Oh well.

[neko_kawaii]

We were on skype with my mom last night and I was showing her the hair sticks I've been making and my son declared that he no longer wanted super short hair like his daddy but long hair like me so he could wear sticks too. I pointed out that he would have to wait a long time before it was long enough for a stick (he inherited his grandmother's 1/4 inch growth).

owlathena, that would piss me off so much. My son once observed a little girl his age coloring her toe nails with a marker and now he does the same when he gets in the mood to draw on himself. If I were a nail painter I'm sure he'd have painted nails. He is at an age where he is beginning to notice the differences between genders and pointing them out. He drew a cat and put big eye lashes on it and told me it was a girl. I pointed out that his lashes are longer than mine. He told me boys don't wear skirts so I showed him his father's sarongs and now I'm supposed to make one for him.

[Nellon]

The other day DH came out of the shower all giddy telling me to "Smell my hair! Smell my hair!". There was an explosion of fruity flowery smells!

He said he took a look in the mirror before his shower and decided his hair needed conditioner but since I have a ton of different conditioners in there he didn't know which one to pick so he used a teeny tiny drop of every single one. He even used a bit of honey because he figured since it was on the conditioner shelf it was probably meant for hair too. (He was right. :p) He even skipped using shampoo and did a CO wash since he heard me say I do that. He wasn't a fan of CO only and asked me to get him a new SLS-free shampoo for him to use but as far as I know he is now using conditioners too.

Over the next couple of days he kept shoving his head under my nose to ask if it still smelled nice. :o

Anyway, he's not that particular with male/female products. He's totally digging scrubs, body oils, foot scrubs, pedi's, creams, basically everything pampering. The only thing I can't convince him to try is a face mask and gosh with all the woodworking and garden work his pores really could do with one! Oh well.

This is so sweet! :) Lovely story...

[WaitingSoLong]

If we as parents accept that our kids are actual individuals who might like unconventional ways (like MANY of us do, I wear men's deodorant and underwear) and let them be who they want to be, we build their confidence which helps them stand up for themselves.

I love everything you have said but wanted to say, I wear men's underwear, too. :D It has everything to do with comfort and fit and tried them at the suggestion of my DH who was sympthetic to the fact I could not find women's underwear that fit me right! I also wear men's boots, men's tank tops and some shirts. And I don't give a flip who knows.


I find it weird that someone would actively try and prevent their child taking hair conditioner to college. That is just... strange?! I mean, isn't he a grown adult now he's in college? And what is it to her what products he uses? It just seems like weird parenting.

Yeah ok, I think this is very weird, too. Cut the umbilical cord already. Geez. As soon as my kids were/are old enough to make the properly informed decisions (and I am talking much bigger things than conditioner) I let them (so long as it is not illegal or harmful). The whole point is to fascilitate confident, independent adults. I mean, am I the only one who puts myself in my kids' shoes or remembers what it is like to be their age? Really? But then I seem to be always amazed at how many parents are truly selfish when it comes to raising their kids. They want their kid to be some ideal of what they had in mind in some fantasy life. All 3 of my kids are starkly different in personality, likes, etc. It is awesome to see their choices and reasonings, epecially now they are all teenagers or older.


Heck, she refused to let any of them learn to cook or wash their own clothes until recently (who stops a teenage boy doing his own laundry?! XD) - the twelve year old wasn't even allowed to pour his own drinks last time I was there.

If painted nails = feminine, am I too masculine or even a lesbian because I haven't painted my nails in months? Hmmmm... :p

Ok, the first statement.....WHAT???? I shall reitterate...cut the umbilical cord already. I think people like her thrive on others depending on them. Holy cow I haven't done my kids' laundry in years! Pour their drinks???? Ok....no.

I love your second statement. I don't paint my nails for many reasons. I used to, but I have just lost all desire to do so. I have been a "tom-boy" all my life. Yes, I like to feel feminine and sexy sometimes, but it is rare. But there are double standards in society, and just because a+b=c, doesn't mean b+a=c. Stupid, but true. In fact, women dressing in men's clothing is seen as sexy by some not-gay men, especially if the clothes are only half on her. LOL. I am seeing a mental picture of some magazine pic I saw probably years ago of a woman in a thong with a man's tie around her neck and a man's blazer that is unbuttoned to show her lacy bra, she has her hair slicked back to look masculine but a face full of make-up. I cannot say I have seen a picture of a man in a reversed situation. But, I don't go loking. It's smiliar to men who think women-on-women is a turn-on but the reverse does not seem to be true (for women).

But then there is a whole plethera of things in this world that make no sense whatsoever.


Parts of America are very weird about male grooming or anything having to do with male vanity. Paying too much of attention to it is construed as gay (let's not even get into how there's nothing wrong with being gay in the first place.).

Yes, but...I have read here on this forum that it can be confusing for gay people to know who is gay and who isn't if the gender standards are not so clearly defined. Meaning, if you are gay and looking for a date, how would you know which men are gay without them wearing a sign if all men started painting their nails and doing more traditionally feminine things? Just a thought. I am not gay nor do I have any issues with men who paint their finger/toenails but I can see where it could cause some confusion.

I knew a man, actually he was my boss, and I had no clue he was gay for the longest time. He was very masculine in all ways. He was openly, gay, too, and I confess I was shocked when I found out because I was very attracted to him and disappointed when I found out he was not interested in women!

[starlamelissa]

my long haired husbands hair is different from mine, his scalp requires daily washing with a conditioning dandruff shampoo, and it doesnt split or tangle, so he doesnt see the point of
using conditioner. he does ponytail it and wears a bandana to protect it and keep it out of his way at work. he wears it down to sleep. also his hair is very coarse with wiry strands.

i dunno if any of that is a "man" thing. my son has silky hair, similar to mine.

[gthlvrmx]

Yes, but...I have read here on this forum that it can be confusing for gay people to know who is gay and who isn't if the gender standards are not so clearly defined. Meaning, if you are gay and looking for a date, how would you know which men are gay without them wearing a sign if all men started painting their nails and doing more traditionally feminine things? Just a thought. I am not gay nor do I have any issues with men who paint their finger/toenails but I can see where it could cause some confusion.

I knew a man, actually he was my boss, and I had no clue he was gay for the longest time. He was very masculine in all ways. He was openly, gay, too, and I confess I was shocked when I found out because I was very attracted to him and disappointed when I found out he was not interested in women!
you find out by asking them. gay men dont have to have anything feminine on them at all. if theyre really interested in another man, they should go ask them if theyre interested in men too. just because you're gay doesnt mean you automatically are feminine in any way. i personally dont see how an attraction towards a man would be considered feminine, feelings are feelings. all these big labels arent even accurate 100% and never will be, labels dont define you, theyre just something that define as best they can the emotions some ppl feel. i think thats how it is i forgot, someone else said and i was like GENIUS. laci green i think :) it was on her video about her being pansexual. its like for pansexual people, i dont think it'd be appropriate to just put on the idea that pan's are generally more masculine than being a hetero man would be. that makes no sense. its just trying to like label some feelings you may feel. and again, being trapped in the whole labeling of like "hetero, gay, lesbian" is like lame to me, feelings are feelings and they change, and ppl get the idea that being gay means STRICTLY only men and thats how its always going to be but things happen, feelings change, and someone might just make you feel differently. it doesnt even have to be in a sexual way either, there are so many feelings and and things that happen inside people and so many ways that people do choose to express themselves that i don't think it should all be stuck between "feminine and masculine".

having anything that considered of the opposite gender doesnt mean anything, if a guy wears a skirt it doesn't mean he's gay. it means he's wearing a skirt. a girl wearing pants doesn't mean she's a lesbian. it means she's wearing pants. but so far, sadly, society hasn't gone that far into acceptance, breaking the binary stuff, and equality :(

i know ive had enough people ask me "who wears the pants in the relationship" and im like...i really hate that. because why does it have to be one dominant, one not dominant? one masculine and one not? why? doesn't make sense to me. and this also came from people who call themselves gay too, some are still stuck in the whole "masculine is straight and feminine is gay for guys"...something odd like that which doesn't make sense because they're attracted to guys so doesn't that make them more "feminine"?? that's why i don't agree. people feel what they feel.

[neko_kawaii]

Well said, gthlvrmx!

I think the same thing applies to "straight" genders. I have come to the conclusion that baby boys get dressed in blue and girls in pink because for some reason it is considered embarrassing not to know which gendered pronouns to use to talk about the baby and that just increases as the person ages.

I had a "boy" cut in elementary school and couldn't understand why people wanted to know if I was a boy or a girl. Why does it matter?

I hear women complain about not feeling feminine in certain clothes or hair and I have to wonder how their clothes and hair managed to alter their biology and brain chemistry. I am just as feminine while wearing carharts and swinging a pick axe as I am in the kitchen with a frilly apron.

[WaitingSoLong]

you find out by asking them.

I would be afraid of the hate that would accompany the response of the person if they were not gay. Not saying all straight men will get angry when asked if they are gay, but I know a lot who would.

[ratgirldjh]

I wear boy's underwear too!

Once years ago I had a lover who didn't like it! I later found out it was because he was worried 'whose' they were and made sure to give me several of his... lol but really I could care less what people think of what I wear. I wear it because I like it.

My dbf used only shampoo for years. Then he discovered conditioner! I finally convinced him (curly hair) to do co-washes and his curls really benefited. The thing is he prefers Sally's Cure Care for his co-wash conditioner (it sudses a lot and doesn't smell) but he ends up with very dry hair because of the protein! Try and explain that to him! lol

I think most of the time though he just rubs the soap bar on his head (short hair) and then sticks his head under the water and squirts some conditioner on and sticks his head under the water (or same thing with just conditioner) - done!

I wish my hair was that easy!!!

I have no idea why someone would forbid their male child from using conditioner :confused: Perhaps she just didn't want to pay for it??? :shrug:

[gthlvrmx]

I would be afraid of the hate that would accompany the response of the person if they were not gay. Not saying all straight men will get angry when asked if they are gay, but I know a lot who would.
XD yeah some people do have very negative responses, but id just punch in the face and kick them in the balls if they say anything mean. nah just kidding i wouldn't (unless he threw a punch at me). i wish they wouldn't take it to offense at all, wouldn't it be more of a compliment if they realize later that a person was interested in them? they actually were interesting enough for someone to see find out and see maybe if things could work out.
i think it will take some time before there's less hate like that, but its a more direct way of finding out rather than just guessing by what they wear.

[WaitingSoLong]

I have never been asked if I was gay by a woman but I was hit on by one. I didn't mind at all, even though I wasn't interested that way. I took it as a compliment that she liked me, ya know? But I suppose I am an exception? Or maybe it is a guy thing. Inmy experience men tend to be more opposed to that kind of thing. But there I go, stereotyping by gender. sigh.

[Alun]

Interesting thread. I don't think most men want to develop a complicated routine. OTOH, it's a given that long hair needs conditioner IMO.

We also have facial hair to contend with, and that needs some attention, even if you let it grow. Even if you grow a beard down to your feet, and I wouldn't do that even if I could, there is still the issue of keeping your moustache out of your mouth, LOL!

I'm not interested in wearing makeup or nail varnish, but I find other limits on what men are supposed to look like to be constraining. I am long past caring what other people think about me having long hair, mainly because it doesn't seem to be as big an issue as it used to be, but their are other things that are still live issues.

Even the choice in colours of clothing still seems to be an issue. I'm not even talking about pastel shades, which don't do much for me, what I am talking about are bright colours, which western society seems to have decided are only for the under-12 crowd if you are male. I recently bought a pair of bright red shoes, and got flak from my wife who said things like she couldn't understand why anyone would want to wear those unless they were a woman! WTF? It's not as if they were 6" stilletos, just normal guy's leather shoes with laces, but bright red. WTH, I like them anyway.

I think the western insistence on men always wearing trousers is pretty constraining too. Even a man's traditional kilt seems to be a controversial garment, although that hasn't stopped me entirely. I am just about old enough to remember when it was controversial for women to wear trousers, so maybe this too will change. I hope so.

Things change, but very slowly. 50 years ago long hair on men was practically unknown. If it takes another 50 years to loosen up all these other taboos I'll likely be dead by then, though.

On the gay aspect, I've known quite a few men who were or are gay, and really you can't always tell. Not only that, but there doesn't seem to be much correlation between masculine clothing or hair and whether someone is gay. Behaviour is a stronger indicator than appearance, and even that is often too subtle to spot.

As for being hit on by gay men, I once made the mistake of telling a guy I liked his hat, meaning I liked his hat. Unfortunately, he took it as some sort of chat up line (?) and followed me around for a couple of weeks until I said something rude. I handled that badly, but I suppose it gave me some insight into why some girls behave rudely in similar circumstances.

[fiddleronroof]

As a man, I go out of my way to try and keep my hair healthy, both facial, and the hair on my head. I am growing my hair to my waist, and I have a beard, but i have never felt as if I got judged because i take care of my hair.

[WaitingSoLong]

As for being hit on by gay men, I once made the mistake of telling a guy I liked his hat, meaning I liked his hat. Unfortunately, he took it as some sort of chat up line (?) and followed me around for a couple of weeks until I said something rude. I handled that badly, but I suppose it gave me some insight into why some girls behave rudely in similar circumstances.

I always love what you have to say Alun. At least you stop to think it through, even if only afterwards.