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View Full Version : Stretching washes- ergh



WaitingSoLong
September 19th, 2012, 07:48 PM
Ok. I am trying to go from twice a week to once a week. I have been at it a few weeks, no matter how greasy or sebum-smelly it gets, I wait...once a week.

I have done a forums search and then google because our site search feature is not always helpful. I have seen sebum smell discussions and greasiness discussions and reasons to stretch, etc.

What I want to know is if there is any real data out there that sebum production will decline with patience.

I am not stretching washes for any noble reason. I am doing it because I hate washing my hair. Correction: I hate detangling my hair after a wash. I always seem to lose an insane amount of hair and it takes me a half hour at least to detangle and i get breakage. It is crazy. And yes, I dislike the damage, too. SO I stretched, sort of inadvertantly, but then I decided to just go with once a week to start.

I am one who hates sebum smell. I can smell it on myself. I can smell it on others as little as a day since they have washed their head.

The good thing is what my hair doesn't appear greasy. It feels greasy, behaves greasy (gets piecey and stiff) but, to others and myself int he mirror, it doesn't look greasy.

But I cannot stand sebum smell.

I can put some lovely smelling oils on it (my scalp) but it just adds to the grease issue.

Is there some kind of fragrance I can use that is hair safe but not oil? I am half tempted to spray perfume on my head but I am sure the alcohols in perfume are likely bad.

ellen732
September 19th, 2012, 08:17 PM
How about trying a dry shampoo in between? It would soak up a bit of the oils and may leave your hair refreshed.

gthlvrmx
September 19th, 2012, 08:20 PM
It took me about a month before my hair stopped looking greasy and lost the bad smell. So just hang on for a little while longer and see what happens, it should get better. I noticed if i use shampoo at ANY time, my hair gets greasier faster and it smells faster. When i shampooed (and only shampoo), my hair smelled after 2 days usually. Now, i start smelling a little bit by the 5-6th day but it doesnt compare to how i smelled when i shampooed for often. I do cowash now so thats been a major difference. For some reason my hair doesnt smell as bad with cowashing(lhc style, not my style i thought was the right way...i was doing it wrong XD)

But i dont usually smell that bad. Sometimes it does stink up more, but i think its from when its hotter and i sweat more. But so far its been fine.
i dont think id smell as nice or my hair would look as nice if i used shampoo. but some people prefer it and their hair works with that.

For the smell, well im not so sure. Everytime i scritched with my moms horn comb, it didnt smell as bad anymore. maybe that could help? i GUESS.

Wildcat Diva
September 19th, 2012, 08:47 PM
What about a rose water spray? Or a rooibos tea spray to cut the sebum?

GALISH
September 19th, 2012, 09:02 PM
Don't remember where I read that the smell of sebum depends on what you eat...

ravenreed
September 19th, 2012, 10:06 PM
My hair is more smelly when I shampoo versus when I CO. It is one reason I switched. I use rosewater quite often in my hair and on my skin. The smell fades pretty quickly so it isn't really good at masking bad smells.

Shepherdess
September 19th, 2012, 10:24 PM
Some drops of essential oils in a spray bottle of water work well (essential oils don't make hair oily, they are almost like perfume)! I do this and it is a safe way of making hair smell better! :)

I have never had trouble with my hair smelling after even over a weak without washing, but I do have trouble with itchiness, although lately I haven't been having as much trouble, so I am glad.

teal
September 19th, 2012, 10:26 PM
One thing that helped me stretch washes was to put a WO wash in between washes. I tip my head over, do a scalp massage, rinse, do that thing where you put a bit of hair between flat palms and smooth it from roots toward ends. It seemed to help my scalp figure out how to regulate the sebum when there was still a bit of it around.

Sorry, no advice on the smell. I rather like mine. Oh, maybe I do have an idea: try Pandora's formula? I didn't find that too greasy. It has rose water, coconut oil and some essential oils.

battles
September 19th, 2012, 10:29 PM
If I want scent on my hair, I put a very light dab of BPAL on my wrist, rub my wrist with a hand and then run my hands over my hair. It doesn't make my hair oily, but it does make it smell nice.

cwarren
September 20th, 2012, 12:20 AM
Tea tree oil. It wont make your hair greasy and it will help fight the smell.

melusine963
September 20th, 2012, 01:35 AM
I would never have been able to jump from washing twice a week to only once in one go. I had to stretch my washes one day at a time, allowing at least a month or two for my scalp to settle in between. I'm making a note of people's suggestions for reducing the smell, because I haven't really found a solution to that problem.

Littlewing13
September 20th, 2012, 01:36 AM
You could make up a mixture of cornstarch & add just a drop of eo of choice. Shake it up thoroughly & use it as a dry shampoo. Haven't tried myself but its on my to-do list.

Sarahlabyrinth
September 20th, 2012, 04:56 AM
You could make up a mixture of cornstarch & add just a drop of eo of choice. Shake it up thoroughly & use it as a dry shampoo. Haven't tried myself but its on my to-do list.

If your hair is dark you could use cocoa powder instead of cornstarch. Then you might smell chocolatey too, mmmm!

WaitingSoLong
September 20th, 2012, 05:31 AM
I am really hesitant to put anything powdery in my hair!

I have tried CO washes in the past but they never work. Probably because I use tons of silicones on my hair just to be able to comb it.

I like the EO ideas. I have peppermint EO. I think I can find an extra spritzer around here.

I decided to go straight to once a week from twice a week after reading some other threads about stretching washes. There did not seem to be a benefot from gradually changing and the step up to one week is not that drastic.

I need to get a REAL BBB. Turns out mine has some plastic mixed in with the boar bristles. Could be why my hair always hated that brush.

I think I may wash a day early this week.

Thanks for the suggestions! It will take some time to try them.

Shepherdess
September 20th, 2012, 06:16 PM
I am really hesitant to put anything powdery in my hair!

I have tried CO washes in the past but they never work. Probably because I use tons of silicones on my hair just to be able to comb it.

I like the EO ideas. I have peppermint EO. I think I can find an extra spritzer around here.

I decided to go straight to once a week from twice a week after reading some other threads about stretching washes. There did not seem to be a benefot from gradually changing and the step up to one week is not that drastic.

I need to get a REAL BBB. Turns out mine has some plastic mixed in with the boar bristles. Could be why my hair always hated that brush.

I think I may wash a day early this week.

Thanks for the suggestions! It will take some time to try them.

That is great! :cheer:

Yeah, I am just beginning to give up the cones as well. I didn't even realize that my conditioners had them until I read the ingredients and compared them to what a website said recently. :(

Just a word of caution, careful not to rub your eyes or spray anything with essential oils in the eyes. I often do this to myself and end up with red watery eyes. :p

WaitingSoLong
September 21st, 2012, 05:27 AM
Well I did the EO thing yesterday and it did help to mask the sebum smell. At least to myself.

I also washed yesterday because I couldn't stand it any longer.

spidermom
September 21st, 2012, 06:46 AM
I don't like washing my hair in cold weather and tend to go an extra day or two between washes.

I remember reading that researchers did a study that proved sebum production doesn't change. A scalp secretes the same amount every day whether it is washed or not.

I think that people just get better at managing the sebum plus get used to having less than freshly washed hair.

Awhile back I decided to wash my hair only once per week, but I only lasted 2, maybe 3 weeks. It wasn't worth it putting up with itchiness and feeling gross.

WaitingSoLong
September 21st, 2012, 07:04 AM
Spidermom, I was wondering about that, too, the reduction is sebum production over time. I am nt really interested in learning how to cope with my sebum production.

I think I may just wash when it feels like it needs it instead of having a set day. Something about my OCD tendencies makes me want to schedule it, though. I cannot remember the last time I just washed when it felt it needed it. I am not sure I have ever done that. Like...EVER in my life. lol

teal
September 21st, 2012, 09:45 AM
I remember reading that researchers did a study that proved sebum production doesn't change. A scalp secretes the same amount every day whether it is washed or not.

Wow, really? I'm so curious to know what the testing parameters were for that study, because my personal experience does not fit with that conclusion. Do you happen to remember who did the study or when it was done?

In my experience, in the first couple of weeks after I stopped washing every second day with S&C (last summer), my head was a greaseball. I stayed home!! :lol: Now, I wash less than once a week and my head is not a greaseball. I'm sure there are mitigating factors like how and how often hair is handled, how it's washed, what it's washed with and, as you say, simply getting used to the presence of sebum. I still have some trouble believing that my sebum production hasn't slowed to some degree.

JellyBene
September 21st, 2012, 10:10 AM
I used to do the WO washing method and to help with the smell I patted a little bit of Lavander EO on my boar bristle brush and ran it through my hair, helped a lot. BUT sadly even though I used this method for 4 months waiting for it to 'adjust', my scalp never did and it the sebum production level never went down. Granted I was 17 so maybe hormones had something to do with why.

longNred
September 21st, 2012, 10:30 AM
Wow, really? I'm so curious to know what the testing parameters were for that study, because my personal experience does not fit with that conclusion. Do you happen to remember who did the study or when it was done?

In my experience, in the first couple of weeks after I stopped washing every second day with S&C (last summer), my head was a greaseball. I stayed home!! :lol: Now, I wash less than once a week and my head is not a greaseball. I'm sure there are mitigating factors like how and how often hair is handled, how it's washed, what it's washed with and, as you say, simply getting used to the presence of sebum. I still have some trouble believing that my sebum production hasn't slowed to some degree.

My experience is like this too... when I started stretching washes (spring of this year) I had terrible itchies/greasies. I toughed it out, and gradually stretched washing... every other day, every 2 days, etc... now, here we are in Sept and i can easily go a week without itchies/greasies at all. I use dry shampoo sparingly, maybe once a week if that, if it's looking like it needs a wash and I simply don't have the time.

coffinhert
September 21st, 2012, 10:32 AM
I tried stretching washes for years. Literally years. But I've come to the conclusion that my scalp will really be happiest if I CO it every 2 or 3 days, longer than that the grease just makes my hair follicles unhappy. Good luck with whatever you find works for you.

spidermom
September 21st, 2012, 10:35 AM
I couldn't find the exact scientific article that I was referencing, but I did find an article at the Beauty Brains site "Can you train your hair to be less oily?"

The answer seemed to be yes and no. If there is sebum on the scalp, it either blocks the follicles so that they don't secrete more or it chemically sends a signal to the follicle cells to stop production. They don't really know how the mechanism works. Once you remove the sebum by any method, be it boar bristle brush spreading it down the hair shaft, WO, shampooing, etc, then the follicle produces more sebum.

However, you can't just leave the sebum sitting on your scalp because it hardens and then bacteria starts feeding on it. It can lead to hair loss and/or infections of various types - fungal, bacterial.

WickedLady
September 21st, 2012, 10:44 AM
I tried stretching washes for years. Literally years. But I've come to the conclusion that my scalp will really be happiest if I CO it every 2 or 3 days, longer than that the grease just makes my hair follicles unhappy. Good luck with whatever you find works for you.


I will second this lol i have to wash every 3 days. if i go more than that my hair starts to shed alot. but i finally have a routine now that makes my hair happy. Now i just have to figure out how to make my scalp stop dandruff. Its not dry or anything but i get this white stuff all over near the scalp. and its not lice lol. I checked.

EndlessSunshine
September 21st, 2012, 11:08 AM
Try to stretch washes has never been a problem for me. I expect a bit of greasies so I start brushing with the BBB and I will spray my brush with a little body spray after I brush so next time I put it through my hair it leaves a nice vanilla scent. Trying to stretch to once a week right now.

Anje
September 21st, 2012, 11:08 AM
I don't know of any scientific studies, and my school tends not to subscribe to the relevant journals.

What I can say anecdotally is that MY sebum production varies with how much I shampoo. It also varies rather drastically seasonally, with higher production in the cold months. My face does the same thing -- if I treat it with harsh products for oily skin, it acts oily (but still with peely dry parts). If I treat it like it's dry skin, it behaves itself.

ETA: I do believe that there are people who have scalps that don't react to conditions like dryness by producing more sebum, but have rather constant production. Stretching washes doesn't work for everyone, and there are many people that it might work for who are unwilling to put up with the rather long period of greasy pre-wash days before their scalps actually do adjust. When it does work, it works on the scale of months, not weeks.

Wahinee
September 21st, 2012, 11:08 AM
I don't think there is any scientific evidence that your scalp produces less sebum if you wash it less often.

Here is a video by a dermatologist about the oil cleansing method
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK7UufZam2U&feature=share&list=UUWl7rIYGLnCwVpuO1DmrEUQ
People wash their face with oil with the theory that if your face isn't completely stripped of oils, it won't produce as much natural oil
The doctor says the cells have no feedback mechanism telling them how much oil is present and how much to produce.

I wash my hair once a week, but not necessarily on the same day. I could wash it on friday and then have my next wash be on tuesday, I just do it as needed.

whiteorchid
September 21st, 2012, 11:10 AM
I couldn't find the exact scientific article that I was referencing, but I did find an article at the Beauty Brains site "Can you train your hair to be less oily?"

The answer seemed to be yes and no. If there is sebum on the scalp, it either blocks the follicles so that they don't secrete more or it chemically sends a signal to the follicle cells to stop production. They don't really know how the mechanism works. Once you remove the sebum by any method, be it boar bristle brush spreading it down the hair shaft, WO, shampooing, etc, then the follicle produces more sebum.

However, you can't just leave the sebum sitting on your scalp because it hardens and then bacteria starts feeding on it. It can lead to hair loss and/or infections of various types - fungal, bacterial.

I think Kligman's study about sebum production always being constant is misleading. I was able to find people talking about his study, but couldn't find the actual article to look at. I don't know what Kligman's methodology was, but my guess is that he made a too general conclusion from whatever he was looking at, or his study was overgeneralized by others in interpreting his experiments. I found something similar to you about sebum being regulated by sebum itself (probably referring to the same article). To me, this study makes much more sense in terms of hair:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/pv373302mt827067/

According to that research, it's the presence of sebum that inhibits the production of more sebum. So that does support the idea that washing with shampoos that do a thorough job of stripping the sebum would cause excess sebum production. With a low poo or no poo method, more sebum is left on the scalp, and so less sebum is produced overall. Brushing and scritching help distribute the sebum, and yes, the scalp is still producing sebum, but less of it. It's more than just management of the sebum; it sounds like you can train your hair to be less oily over time. So it's a little of both. You can allow more sebum to consistently stay on your scalp, and therefore create less of it, but management is also necessary to keep the scalp healthy (like you said, the sebum can't just cake up :) ).

teal
September 21st, 2012, 12:56 PM
I think Kligman's study about sebum production always being constant is misleading. I was able to find people talking about his study, but couldn't find the actual article to look at. I don't know what Kligman's methodology was, but my guess is that he made a too general conclusion from whatever he was looking at, or his study was overgeneralized by others in interpreting his experiments. I found something similar to you about sebum being regulated by sebum itself (probably referring to the same article). To me, this study makes much more sense in terms of hair:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/pv373302mt827067/

According to that research, it's the presence of sebum that inhibits the production of more sebum. So that does support the idea that washing with shampoos that do a thorough job of stripping the sebum would cause excess sebum production. With a low poo or no poo method, more sebum is left on the scalp, and so less sebum is produced overall. Brushing and scritching help distribute the sebum, and yes, the scalp is still producing sebum, but less of it. It's more than just management of the sebum; it sounds like you can train your hair to be less oily over time. So it's a little of both. You can allow more sebum to consistently stay on your scalp, and therefore create less of it, but management is also necessary to keep the scalp healthy (like you said, the sebum can't just cake up :) ).

This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing! :)

GrowingGlory
September 21st, 2012, 01:06 PM
A mister bottle with a little bit of Night Blooming's Panacea Hair Salve melted into some warm distilled water. Mmm! Or a light application of Night Blooming's Triple Moon Anointing Oil on your scalp (or with an oil mister?). HTH.

WaitingSoLong
September 21st, 2012, 01:14 PM
I knew scalp massages helped something. I think it is essential to keep the follicles unclogged between washes. I try to massage my scalp nightly when I am detangling before bed and before I put on my sleep stocking.

I think a key factor here in stretching washes may be what you do with your scalp between washes. BBB's tend to make my greasiness worse. MAJORLY worse. I guess because it spreads the sebum over a larger area of hair so the greasiness seems to be more when it is just more spread out. At any rate, it changes my scalp greasiness to whole head greasiness and can I just say EW?

Massaging tends to keep it at the scalp while still helping to unclog follicles.

But can sebum production be reduced? Apparently so, if you can find a perfect balance of getting rid of excess without over-doing it. I am just not sure how many years of experimenting that would take, which explains why some seem to do it faster (weeks) than others (months or years). Clearly what we use on our scalps overall is an important deciding factor. As with anything else, your body chemistry decides what ratio is your golden ratio.

My observation is what CO washers tend to regulate faster, for obvious reasons of not stripping oils as much as poo would. As a non-COer, I think really stretching washes is not realistic for me.

I still intend to wash "prn" (as needed), possibly taking the advice from another wash-stretching thread somewhere here and go about 1 day past when I really want to wash. Perhaps eventually the tween times will lengthen.

My hair's manageability is more important to me than anything else (I must be able to tame the locks) and going too long between washes reduces manageability, so does CO washing (for me) and being cone-free. So since I seem to need cones, I also need poo, which means stretching washes is likely limited for me. How's my logic? Totally empty? lol