No Poo - I discovered tangles = lack of protein.

[Prasinaki]

Hi, I am new here, but I have been gleaning information from this site as well as others.


I wanted to share my no poo story in case it helps someone, and decided to start a new thread to address the topic directly.

Hair type - fine but plentiful, wavy, natural blonde, shoulder blade length, with layers.

Water type - I stay in 2 places. My usual program is 4 weeks with hard water and 2 weeks with soft.

Now 9 months no poo.

I started no poo to fight frizz, which I have had success with since the beginning. I use b/s and vinegar. The soda is quite drying for me so my ratio is 3 teaspoons in 500ml filtered water (I use a washing up liquid bottle - the top is good for only squirting out a little.) I probably use about 50ml of this concoction each wash.

I've experimented with different washes. I have found
1) With soft water I can go a week without b/s, in hard water maybe 4 days, with water washes in between.
2) I have to rinse out. If I leave anything on like vinegar or herbal rinses, my hair feels, not exactly greasy, but coated and dull.
3) Tangles means hair needs protein.

This is how I discovered number 3.

Right from the beginning my hair got dry split ends, and needed trimming much sooner than before, but as it was growing so much faster I wasn't worried. I adjusted the b/s ratio. I also tried washing with egg, and egg yolk. Washing only my scalp as with the b/s. Egg cleans brilliantly. Still the dryness and tangles were gradually getting worse. I wondered about mineral builup from the hard water, although I always do my final rinse with filtered water. I tried a few tricks for minerals, (citric acid, lemon juice) but with no effect.

Last month I spent 5 weeks in the soft water area, and after 2 weeks the tangles were still getting worse.

Just to clarify what I mean by tangles, my hair has always been pretty smooth and silky, but now the ends, and gradually further and further up the shaft, were sticking to one another like velcro. I didn't have loads of knots.

I soaked my hair with coconut oil, and while it was greasy with the oil it was still doing the velcro thing. I realised this was not a moisture problem.

I thought again about mineral buildup (although this didn't really make sense since I was in the soft water area) but also read some articles about protein, and doing a wet strand stretch test. My hair was showing signs of lacking protein. I read eggs were good for mineral buildup and protein deficiency, so I mixed an egg with olive oil and coated the whole lengths of my hair. Left it for 10 minutes and washed out. My hair felt 10 times better. I did it again 4 days later for half an hour, and the same again a week later. Fixed! I have my old hair back!

I plan to do this once a week, with b/s in between as needed. I guess before no poo I was adding protein with serums etc, and never realised how much my hair needs it. I also read you can use yoghurt or gelatin, but the egg worked fine for me.

I hope this helps someone.

[dawnss]

Interesting, thanks for the post. I think that someone will really benefit from it.

[gossamer]

It's funny, I end up with velcro hair like that from too much protein! Very interesting to read how your hair reacts to no protein from using BS/vinegar.

[ravenreed]

Same here!


It's funny, I end up with velcro hair like that from too much protein! Very interesting to read how your hair reacts to no protein from using BS/vinegar.

[lmfbs]

Honestly, to me it sounds like you were drying your hair with BS/vinegar, and not adding any moisture. The egg/olive oil worked so well because you basically did a DT with it. Egg isn't one of the usual proteins that absorbs into your hair very easily because they're too big, although some people do find it helpful.

My hair stretches like it needs protein, but because of damage, not actual lack of protein.

Your ratio of BS to water is quite high. I use 1tsb in 1000ml of water and use it all when I CLARIFY. I clarify once every 6 - 8 weeks, and it is hell on my hair (dries it out - I do a 12 hour deep treatment after to help the moisture issues). You're doing it with a stronger concentration every 4 days.

If I were you, I'd add some moisture into your hair. Do a search for the SMT recipe, I think it would do wonders for your hair.

[Prasinaki]

Just to respond to the moisture thing, I do add oils as necessary, usually jojoba, almond or olive, but as I noted, I have even soaked my hair in oils, and have not had the success that I had with the egg.

Actually, I have even done the egg on it's own, and yes my hair was dryer than when I'd done oil with it, but still less tangly.

With the b/s solution, I use very little per wash, it's probably 1/3 of a teaspoon. Is that really strong? I've read about people using a paste And scrubbing their scalp with it." I thought mine was pretty weak!

[lmfbs]

Just to respond to the moisture thing, I do add oils as necessary, usually jojoba, almond or olive, but as I noted, I have even soaked my hair in oils, and have not had the success that I had with the egg.

Actually, I have even done the egg on it's own, and yes my hair was dryer than when I'd done oil with it, but still less tangly.

With the b/s solution, I use very little per wash, it's probably 1/3 of a teaspoon. Is that really strong? I've read about people using a paste And scrubbing their scalp with it." I thought mine was pretty weak!

Soaking your hair in oil doesn't add moisture. Most oils have molecules too large to be absorbed into your hair. Coconut (and others) are small enough that they can actually penetrate the hair. The oils that don't penetrate just sit on the surface of your hair creating a barrier. They don't let moisture out of your hair, but also don't add any in.

Amazing that you can use such small amounts of BS/water to actually get all your hair. 50ml wouldn't even soak the ends of my hair! Maybe I need to upgrade my technique.

[Prasinaki]

I only wash my scalp with the 50ml

I brush thoroughly with a boar bristle brush to distribute the natural oils, then in the shower I apply the soda mix to dry hair, scalp only, and give my scalp a good scrub with my fingertips, then rinse out well. Apparently the small amount that runs down the hair is enough to clean it without removing all the natural oils. Then an acid rinse. It works for me.

Incidentally I just arrived in my soft water area, and did a water-only wash with a mild vinegar rinse, and my hair feels great. I love soft water!

A question about the oils though. If most oils don't penetrate the hair, what should I be using for moisture, if I want to avoid chemicals? I tried coconut oil, and I appear to be one of the few people it does nothing for.

Thanks in advance.

[lmfbs]

I only wash my scalp with the 50ml

I brush thoroughly with a boar bristle brush to distribute the natural oils, then in the shower I apply the soda mix to dry hair, scalp only, and give my scalp a good scrub with my fingertips, then rinse out well. Apparently the small amount that runs down the hair is enough to clean it without removing all the natural oils. Then an acid rinse. It works for me.

Incidentally I just arrived in my soft water area, and did a water-only wash with a mild vinegar rinse, and my hair feels great. I love soft water!

A question about the oils though. If most oils don't penetrate the hair, what should I be using for moisture, if I want to avoid chemicals? I tried coconut oil, and I appear to be one of the few people it does nothing for.

Thanks in advance.

What sort of chemicals do you want to avoid? Pretty much anything you put on your head has chemicals in it. It seems as though you're aiming for more natural alternatives to traditional (modern traditional) hair products.

This thread about organic hair products might be helpful for you http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=100198&highlight=moisture+chemicals

SMT
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128

Honey is a humectant so can help with moisture issues. Aloe vera is something that lots of people have good results with. Avocado, banana....there are a hundred ways to add moisture (some with protein, some without)

There are various teas that are great for your hair (catnip is a personal fave of mine).

Henna and cassia are great too.

My biggest suggestion is that you take a look at the Recipes, Henna, and Herbal Haircare (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21) forum - there are so many ideas and lots of friendly people who can help if you have questions :)

[Prasinaki]

Thanks for that. There's so much on this site I don't know where to start. I'm gonna take a look through them as I get chance!

And yes, I'm trying to go for the all-natural way of hair and body care. I've also been doing the oil cleansing method on my face which has cleared up my acne.

I wonder what we used to do before soap and shampoo were invented. I know soap is an ancient thing, but not the stuff made with caustic soda that we use now.

Thanks again.

[Prasinaki]

Me again,

I'm still having trouble with tangles. The eggs are still helping a bit, but I also found this thread

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/137162-help-ratty-tangled-mess-hair.html

that claims that acv can damage the cuticle, and I have been using it quite strong. I just wondered what you guys think about it.

And is my only "no poo" option to cut my hair short and start again?

Thanks

[Prasinaki]

Me again,

I'm still having trouble with tangles. The eggs are still helping a bit, but I also found this thread

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/137162-help-ratty-tangled-mess-hair.html

that claims that acv can damage the cuticle, and I have been using it quite strong. I just wondered what you guys think about it.

And is my only "no poo" option to cut my hair short and start again?

Thanks

[Prasinaki]

Me again,

I'm still having trouble with tangles. The eggs are still helping a bit, but I also found this thread

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/137162-help-ratty-tangled-mess-hair.html

that claims that acv can damage the cuticle, and I have been using it quite strong. I just wondered what you guys think about it.

And is my only "no poo" option to cut my hair short and start again?

Thanks

[Prasinaki]

Me again,

I'm still having trouble with tangles. The eggs are still helping a bit, but I also found this thread

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/137162-help-ratty-tangled-mess-hair.html

that claims that acv can damage the cuticle, and I have been using it quite strong. I just wondered what you guys think about it.

And is my only "no poo" option to cut my hair short and start again?

Thanks

[Prasinaki]

Me again,

I'm still having trouble with tangles. The eggs are still helping a bit, but I also found this thread

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/137162-help-ratty-tangled-mess-hair.html

that claims that acv can damage the cuticle, and I have been using it quite strong. I just wondered what you guys think about it.

And is my only "no poo" option to cut my hair short and start again?

Thanks

[marytmacc]

I just quoted you on no poo and low poo hair care group on facebook. Your solution sounds like it may help a lot of other no pooers. Thanks!

[WilfredAllen]

Thanks for sharing that. I've bookmarked this thread in case I ever need to know that. I'm not no poo, but using very diluted sls-free poo.

[Firefox7275]

Thanks for that. There's so much on this site I don't know where to start. I'm gonna take a look through them as I get chance!

And yes, I'm trying to go for the all-natural way of hair and body care. I've also been doing the oil cleansing method on my face which has cleared up my acne.

I wonder what we used to do before soap and shampoo were invented. I know soap is an ancient thing, but not the stuff made with caustic soda that we use now.

Thanks again.

Alkaline soap as a body or hair cleanser not an ancient practice at all, it was invented relatively recently by the Romans in order to degrease fabrics and household items (forerunner of laundry powder and dish soap) and only came to be used to clean the body and hair much later. Stone age humans used plant extracts like soapwort and soap nuts which are acidic so not damaging to skin and hair as baking soda and soap are. Soap is not any more natural than shampoo, soap and foaming surfactants are both derived by chemical reaction from oils.

Egg protein is too large to penetrate or adhere to the hair, oils o not supply moisture (water) so the entire OP is based on a mistaken premise. More likely what is happening is that the alkaline baking soda is damaging the hair's protective f-layer and the egg is temporarily replenishing that, being a mixture of oleic acid and saturates and cholesterol somewhat similar in composition to skin and hair lipids. The obvious solution is to stop damaging the hair's protective coating with harsh alkaline agents.