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View Full Version : Aussie isn't cruelty free :'-((



katfemme89
September 13th, 2012, 09:10 PM
I just bought a big bottle of Aussie Moist conditioner, and after I bought it I remember that I didn't see "not tested on animals" on the back, when I was reading the ingredients. I checked online and the parent company of Aussie, Procter & Gamble, do, in fact, test ALL of their products on animals. I feel so bad that I purchased this now. I didn't think to notice before I bought it because I mistakenly thought that most companies had phased out this cruelty. But it is the only formulation I found that contained ingredients that I liked and was reasonably priced, so I didn't really want to go through the hassle of taking it back, and then having to search for another conditioner that won't leave my hair feeling like crap. I almost started crying on the way home from the store. I feel like companies put people between a rock and a hard place doing this kind of thing. "All natural" products never seem to work for me, and the mainstream products still seem to have some senseless animal testing bull**** going on. What's a girl to do?

I think I'm going to contact Aussie via their website and just implore them to stop animal testing. I know, I am only one person, but maybe if I can get some of you guys on board, we can make a difference? I was thinking about starting a petition on change.org, too.

What do you guys think?

GabrielleRose
September 13th, 2012, 10:07 PM
I'm with you. :)

cwarren
September 13th, 2012, 10:23 PM
Contacting P&G will only lead you to some customer service person who will email you a generic answer to your question. I've tried emailing P&G about Herbal Essences (not an animal testing question) and got a stock answer. They never replied to my follow up :(

Don't expect much.

Kaelee
September 13th, 2012, 10:44 PM
Contacting P&G will only lead you to some customer service person who will email you a generic answer to your question. I've tried emailing P&G about Herbal Essences (not an animal testing question) and got a stock answer. They never replied to my follow up :(

Don't expect much.

They'll probably send you coupons for more P&G products. :poot:

katfemme89
September 13th, 2012, 11:16 PM
Yay, I found an existing petition on change.org: Sign it here! (http://www.change.org/petitions/procter-gamble-stop-testing-on-animals-for-your-own-protection-from-liability-lawsuits#):D

ETA: I just found a site that lists all products that do and do not test on animals: www.leapingbunny.org (http://www.leapingbunny.org/):D

spirals
September 13th, 2012, 11:52 PM
Even companies that gave it up have started testing again because they want to sell in China, where it is required by law. P & G doesn't test for products sold here. And even companies that don't test use ingredients that have been. I feel like we can't win.

katfemme89
September 13th, 2012, 11:57 PM
Even companies that gave it up have started testing again because they want to sell in China, where it is required by law. P & G doesn't test for products sold here. And even companies that don't test use ingredients that have been. I feel like we can't win.

*depressed again* :( May I ask where did you read/hear this? That's good that they don't test on stuff sold here! but sucks about the ingredients being tested. Uggggh. Sometimes I just wanna go live in the wilderness and not use any products whatsoever lol.

AcornMystic
September 14th, 2012, 12:12 AM
Oh believe me.. you're not the only person that has considered contacting them, nor would you be the only one who has if you did and they are one of many. I boycott animal tested products as much as I boycott sulphates and silicones now, it is something I look for and research up on. That is the best way I can make a difference with such a vast list of companies who do test on animals; other than to make a physical difference by attending protests and I am not in the position to do so at this time.

That is my take on it. You make much more of a difference by rejecting them all than by picking and choosing and singling anyone out. I'm glad there are others on here though that feel so strongly about wanting to eliminate animal testing. :)

Tota
September 14th, 2012, 12:18 AM
OP, just an advice:

If you want to go cruelty-free and join many who boycott P&G you can print this list and put in your wallet/purse so you can always check it when in doubt: P&G kills (http://www.google.si/imgres?hl=sl&client=firefox-a&hs=G8k&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:sl:official&biw=1366&bih=649&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=trbN-wKdSN8wDM:&imgrefurl=http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Practical/Shop--ToDo/Shopping/LogosOfCruelty.htm&docid=pCVu6P0fXT9r7M&imgurl=http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Practical/Shop--ToDo/Shopping/LogosOfCruelty.jpg&w=612&h=792&ei=vMtSUOLNOovLsgbOkIGYBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=182&vpy=128&dur=4756&hovh=255&hovw=197&tx=93&ty=130&sig=103279873270487548293&page=1&tbnh=152&tbnw=117&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69)

Leaping Bunny's shopping guide is great, too.

pullanmuru
September 14th, 2012, 12:26 AM
I've been there done that, sent emails, signed petitions... I really think that laws are the only thing that can change the way things are. In EU countries their trying to improve the welfare of animals in testing conditions, the new near-total ban on animal testing of cosmetics will be in effect in 2013. France for example being one the biggest countries in cosmetics production in EU is still against the new legislation but the directive has been passed and will be a reality. The companies will of course then try other ways to test on their new ingredients for example by claiming their health related and therefore need to be tested like drugs are tested.

There are loads of products that I would like to purchase but I won't because of animal testing. I personally would rather give up on those things than support these companies. I mostly buy only BUAV-approved products. Read more: http://buav.org/

I don't even buy from Body Shop anymore since it was sold to L'Oreal. :mad::mad: I used to buy their products all the time.

I find that since online shopping became so much easier with paypal and more smaller companies selling their products online, it's quite easy to find products that are not being tested on animals. Of course the ingredients have been tested in the past, before they were put to use but what we're concerned is the on going tests. And I do want to support companies that don't carry on testing their products and ingredients on animals.

I spent a good couple of hours going through the shop links on BUAVs site of non testing companies in EU and US and checking what these companies offer and bookmarking those companies that offer products that interest me. Then when I'm in need of a new cleaning product or facial wash or make up I just go through my bookmarks and shop away :)

Internet is truly wonderful :) Earlier when online shopping was just starting it was a lot harder to find these things since Finland is a small country and there quite a small number of people buying eco- and animal friendly products. I remember the first and foremost eco friendly shop, it was a shady little hippie place in an old building with customers and sales personel who had miles and miles of dreadlocks and tie dyed clothes :) Now the store in the middle of Helsinki, big, bright and not filled only with hippies (not saying there's anything bad about hippies) but all kinds of people shopping these eco and animal friendly products. It's mainstream now and it makes me happy.

pullanmuru
September 14th, 2012, 12:42 AM
*depressed again* :( May I ask where did you read/hear this? That's good that they don't test on stuff sold here! but sucks about the ingredients being tested. Uggggh. Sometimes I just wanna go live in the wilderness and not use any products whatsoever lol.

That is correct. For example Yves Rocher, a french cosmetics company was removed from BUAV's list because they started to sell in China and although they don't themselves conduct the animal test their final products are tested on animals IN China before they are released to chinese market. And that's why they were removed from the list. BUAV keeps up to date to these things and you can trust their list of non testing companies.

Also the same thing happened with L'Occitane, another french company. I really liked their parfums :(

Only companies that I personally use that aren't on the BUAV's list is some small finnish companies that sell mainly soaps and oils from simple old ingredients that have been approved to cosmetic use ages ago, Manic Panic and Lush, they're both been around for ages and have always had strong claims against animal testing. These are the only companies that I trust for some reason outside BUAV's list.

katfemme89
September 14th, 2012, 01:20 AM
OP, just an advice:

If you want to go cruelty-free and join many who boycott P&G you can print this list and put in your wallet/purse so you can always check it when in doubt: P&G kills (http://www.google.si/imgres?hl=sl&client=firefox-a&hs=G8k&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:sl:official&biw=1366&bih=649&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=trbN-wKdSN8wDM:&imgrefurl=http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Practical/Shop--ToDo/Shopping/LogosOfCruelty.htm&docid=pCVu6P0fXT9r7M&imgurl=http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Practical/Shop--ToDo/Shopping/LogosOfCruelty.jpg&w=612&h=792&ei=vMtSUOLNOovLsgbOkIGYBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=182&vpy=128&dur=4756&hovh=255&hovw=197&tx=93&ty=130&sig=103279873270487548293&page=1&tbnh=152&tbnw=117&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69)

Leaping Bunny's shopping guide is great, too.

Thank you SOO much for that list! That's awesome, I am going to print it out. I also posted it on my facebook for my other animal activist friends.


I've been there done that, sent emails, signed petitions... I really think that laws are the only thing that can change the way things are. In EU countries their trying to improve the welfare of animals in testing conditions, the new near-total ban on animal testing of cosmetics will be in effect in 2013. France for example being one the biggest countries in cosmetics production in EU is still against the new legislation but the directive has been passed and will be a reality. The companies will of course then try other ways to test on their new ingredients for example by claiming their health related and therefore need to be tested like drugs are tested.

There are loads of products that I would like to purchase but I won't because of animal testing. I personally would rather give up on those things than support these companies. I mostly buy only BUAV-approved products. Read more: http://buav.org/

I don't even buy from Body Shop anymore since it was sold to L'Oreal. :mad::mad: I used to buy their products all the time.

I find that since online shopping became so much easier with paypal and more smaller companies selling their products online, it's quite easy to find products that are not being tested on animals. Of course the ingredients have been tested in the past, before they were put to use but what we're concerned is the on going tests. And I do want to support companies that don't carry on testing their products and ingredients on animals.

I spent a good couple of hours going through the shop links on BUAVs site of non testing companies in EU and US and checking what these companies offer and bookmarking those companies that offer products that interest me. Then when I'm in need of a new cleaning product or facial wash or make up I just go through my bookmarks and shop away :)

Internet is truly wonderful :) Earlier when online shopping was just starting it was a lot harder to find these things since Finland is a small country and there quite a small number of people buying eco- and animal friendly products. I remember the first and foremost eco friendly shop, it was a shady little hippie place in an old building with customers and sales personel who had miles and miles of dreadlocks and tie dyed clothes :) Now the store in the middle of Helsinki, big, bright and not filled only with hippies (not saying there's anything bad about hippies) but all kinds of people shopping these eco and animal friendly products. It's mainstream now and it makes me happy.

That's really great info, thank you! I definitely want to try to clean up my cosmetic products, like every time I put some animal tested product in my hair or on my skin I can hear the little screams of the animals and I feel like a big evil ogre :(

I know that in California it's a lot easier to get eco-friendly products but I live in Kentucky, and our main industry here is coal and tobacco, so as you've probably already guessed, people don't give a s*** about their health or the environment, lol.

bratz81
September 14th, 2012, 01:26 AM
I agree with using BUAV's list, and I also check with PETA's online list. I completely boycott all companies involved in animal testing - yes there's loads of products I'd love to buy or loved in the past but for me it's more important to boycott these companies.
The internet does make it a lot easier to research and find things not tested on animals.

katfemme89
September 14th, 2012, 01:27 AM
Oh believe me.. you're not the only person that has considered contacting them, nor would you be the only one who has if you did and they are one of many. I boycott animal tested products as much as I boycott sulphates and silicones now, it is something I look for and research up on. That is the best way I can make a difference with such a vast list of companies who do test on animals; other than to make a physical difference by attending protests and I am not in the position to do so at this time.

That is my take on it. You make much more of a difference by rejecting them all than by picking and choosing and singling anyone out. I'm glad there are others on here though that feel so strongly about wanting to eliminate animal testing. :)

I'm glad to know that there are other animal activists here. And i see what you mean about boycotting. But I am also of the opinion that the bigger the stink people make about something, the more likely it is to be changed to suit everyone :eyebrows:

Bagginslover
September 14th, 2012, 02:27 AM
hate to be a downer on this, but you will find it very difficult to find anything that wasn't tested on animals at some stage. Body shop has always used tested-on-animals ingredients, even before being bought up-its only their final products that haven't been.

The same is true for pretty much every product out there, at some point, an animal will have had it slapped on them, it might have been 20 years ago, but it will have happened.

It still makes me very sad knowing this, I hate to think of it, but knowing it eases my concience a little when buying things, as I know it can't be avoided :(

pullanmuru
September 14th, 2012, 03:08 AM
hate to be a downer on this, but you will find it very difficult to find anything that wasn't tested on animals at some stage. Body shop has always used tested-on-animals ingredients, even before being bought up-its only their final products that haven't been.

The same is true for pretty much every product out there, at some point, an animal will have had it slapped on them, it might have been 20 years ago, but it will have happened.

It still makes me very sad knowing this, I hate to think of it, but knowing it eases my concience a little when buying things, as I know it can't be avoided :(

I find this a bit odd comment, although I regularly hear this from people who buy anything and don't think twice about whether or not it's tested on animals or not.

What's done is done. We can't change that. Obviously all the cosmetics ingredients have been tested at some point. What I'm (and others who feel the same way) against is the current, on going test. Today we have loads of alternatives to animal tests, that weren't available before. There's in vitro testing and testing with computer modeling and human voluntees. Most of the animal tests done today could be replaced with alternative methods if the companies were willing to pay more. Due to these companies' selfishness and greed animals suffer today.

Old tests have made a huge number of ingredients available for everyone to use, then why do some companies find, develop and use new ingredients? Because they can then market them as NEW or REVOLUTIONERY. You know the ads, there's always some new miracolous new ingredient that will make your wrinkles disappear or your lashes 1000% longer. That's why. Of course they need to make products that they can claim are better than the products before.

I personally don't care if I use igredients that were tested on animals 20 years ago, if the company I buy them from doesn't conduct or use animal testing on their products at the moment. There's a 5 year period in which the companies need to fullfill before that can be approved by BUAV. And they also need to prove that, so it's not only their own word against the consumers belief.

Nothing we do can make the old animal test and suffering disappear, but there's a whole lot we can do about the future suffering of animals in tests. If we just care enough.

Tota
September 14th, 2012, 03:14 AM
:thumbsup: pullanmuru, good post. I couldn't agree with you more.

We do what we can but we cannot rewrite the past. And the past should not be an excuse for not doing anything now or in the future! The more of us stops buying products tested on animals and spread awareness the more hope we have that companies will re-think their policies. I think all the pleads and cries and e-mails don't do much. Hit them where it hurts the most - their profit.

Bagginslover
September 14th, 2012, 03:16 AM
......I personally don't care if I use igredients that were tested on animals 20 years ago.....
I find that an odd comment, surely if you care, you care?

Might have to agree to disagree on this one.

pullanmuru
September 14th, 2012, 03:24 AM
I find that an odd comment, surely if you care, you care?

There's nothing you can do about those old tests anymore, so what's there to care about. I concentrate on the living creatures today. If I had even been alive when those first tests were done I probably would've cared then.

Having said I of course find it very sad. But what I really care about is avoiding as much as I can any unnecessary suffering today. Now is the time when our actions have an effect.

If we concentrate on feeling sorry for all the wrong doings of the past, there's no end to it. Future is what we should worry about.

pullanmuru
September 14th, 2012, 03:31 AM
:thumbsup: pullanmuru, good post. I couldn't agree with you more.

We do what we can but we cannot rewrite the past. And the past should not be an excuse for not doing anything now or in the future! The more of us stops buying products tested on animals and spread awareness the more hope we have that companies will re-think their policies. I think all the pleads and cries and e-mails don't do much. Hit them where it hurts the most - their profit.

Yes, exactly. That's my point of view. A consumer has the money = the power to show companies what we want. But we only have power if there are enough of us.

I've witnessed a huge growth in cruelty free companies in the last 10 or so years, and again internet has come to aid for many smaller companies that now have potentially unlimited customer base and vice versa, people who live in remote areas have a better chance buying from these companies. We're no longer limited to buying what's available in our home town.

MORE
September 14th, 2012, 05:28 AM
Yay, I found an existing petition on change.org: Sign it here! (http://www.change.org/petitions/procter-gamble-stop-testing-on-animals-for-your-own-protection-from-liability-lawsuits#):D

ETA: I just found a site that lists all products that do and do not test on animals: www.leapingbunny.org (http://www.leapingbunny.org/):D

That's awful. I just signed the petition. I agree, if we all go together we can make a change! After my vote the petition needs 1,233 more votes to be completed!:cheer:

jacqueline101
September 14th, 2012, 06:32 AM
Its sad but true most companies do it. The only thing that works is changing laws.

melusine963
September 14th, 2012, 10:58 AM
hate to be a downer on this, but you will find it very difficult to find anything that wasn't tested on animals at some stage. Body shop has always used tested-on-animals ingredients, even before being bought up-its only their final products that haven't been.

The same is true for pretty much every product out there, at some point, an animal will have had it slapped on them, it might have been 20 years ago, but it will have happened.

I've heard this too. A lot of products will be labelled cruelty-free, but will contain ingredients that the manufacturers know to be safe because they have been tested on animals by other companies in the past. It seems like you can't win. :(

Dang3rousB3auty
September 14th, 2012, 10:05 PM
hate to be a downer on this, but you will find it very difficult to find anything that wasn't tested on animals at some stage. Body shop has always used tested-on-animals ingredients, even before being bought up-its only their final products that haven't been.

The same is true for pretty much every product out there, at some point, an animal will have had it slapped on them, it might have been 20 years ago, but it will have happened.

It still makes me very sad knowing this, I hate to think of it, but knowing it eases my concience a little when buying things, as I know it can't be avoided :(

I have to agree with you on this one. If you really want to stay away from things being tested on animals, (which just because the company personally doesn't test on animals I can guarantee you some other company has done the testing) you shouldn't use any commercial products. This includes toothpastes, hair products, deodorants, makeup, pharmacy drugs, etc. I do agree you can try to stay away from it the best you can by trying not to buy from known animal testers, but it's practically impossible to not be buying into something tested on animals.

Companies lie a lot! They also pick tricky ways to word things or get past having to straight out say that they definitely do test!

I do my best to try organic brands, that contain ingredients that don't need to be tested on animals because they couldn't harm a human in the first place.

Catladyintown
September 14th, 2012, 10:58 PM
A lot of different companies are lying about their no cruelty free products. Avon is one of them.:mad: My mom wanted to buy me things from Avon and I said before you buy me anything let me check into it. So I told her about Avon and I will never use Avon again.

boycott procter & gamble

HOW TO SPOT AN ANIMAL TESTING COMPANY

Many cosmetics companies misleadingly claim their products are ‘not tested on animals’ but are not so keen to admit that they still use animal-tested ingredients. In these crude poisoning tests, chemicals are force-fed to animals, injected into them, dripped into their eyes and rubbed into their raw skin. Here is an overview that explains how to recognise the companies that try to give the impression they are cruelty-free, when they're not!

Cosmetics companies can, broadly speaking, be divided into three categories with regard to their animal testing policies.

Chemical-producing companies that test on animals themselves or pay researchers to carry out animal tests on their behalf e.g.

Avon
Beiersdorf
Colgate
Johnson & Johnson
L'Oreal
PZ Cussons
Procter & Gamble
Reckitt Benckiser
Unilever

They tend to be larger companies and often have a raft of different cosmetic brands, for example 'Dove' and 'Organics' are Unilever brands. 'Herbal Essences' and 'Max Factor' are P&G brands. 'Garnier' and 'Lancome' are L'Oreal brands, the Body Shop are now owned by L'Oreal too. So rule number one is always look to see who the parent company is.

The second category are cosmetics companies that tend not to test on animals themselves but continue to buy, use and benefit financially from chemical ingredients that have recently been tested on animals by their suppliers. Many cosmetic brands fall into this category e.g.

Boots brands
Chanel
Clarins
Clinique
Estee Lauder
Givenchy
Revlon
Tresemme

Supermarkets:
Asda
Lidl
Morrisons

Most of them are very clever at deceiving the public with the claims they make about animal testing.

The final category consists of companies that adhere to a Fixed Cut Off Date scheme. This means that the company will not buy or use ingredients that have been tested on animals by themselves or their suppliers after a set date (e.g. 1995). This is the only method by which manufacturers can send a clear message to their suppliers and the rest of the industry that the company is not prepared to profit from animal tested ingredients. Most animal testing for cosmetics takes place on "new to the world" chemicals. There are already thousands of chemicals with a proven safety record available.

You may be wondering why these companies are so keen to have access to new chemicals, especially when the majority of consumers are against animal testing for cosmetics? Well it's so they can market their products as ‘new’ and ‘improved’ - basically so they can make more money. For example P&G claim that their Olay Regenerist moisturizer beautifully regenerates skins’ appearance - thanks to their new Amino-Peptide Complex. And that their Total Effects moisturizer contains an exclusive VitaNiacin formula (the science part!). P&G and others are filling their products with all sorts of new chemical ingredients. It's to boost their marketing hype and P&G are recognised as world leaders. These companies are taking a gamble on the fact that most consumers assume that cosmetics are no longer tested on animals or are unable to see through their cleverly worded ‘animal testing policies’.

How To Interpret Cruelty-Free Claims

If you look at a product that makes no mention of animal testing - be suspicious. If a company can make a claim, no matter how meaningless, they usually will. It's hard to believe but there are no laws to prevent companies from deliberately misleading consumers about their animal testing practises.

PZ Cussons makers of 'Original Source' products say:

“None of our products are tested on animals. We support the development and acceptance of alternative methods which reduce or replace the use of animals in product safety evaluation.”

Notice they mention product testing but not ingredients. Many cosmetic companies also add statements about how much they support and invest in the development of alternative methods of testing - which is a ploy to distract consumers from the fact that they also still test on animals.

Clarins say:

“In 1987, Clarins was the first French company to cease product testing on animals.”

Again no mention of ingredients.

Estee Lauder say:

“We do not conduct animal testing on our products or ingredients, nor ask others to test on our behalf, except when required by law.”

Avon say:

“Avon does not test products or ingredients on animals, nor do we request others to do so on our behalf. Avon will conduct animal testing only when required by law.”

Seemingly strongly worded statements like this are made by many companies - and it sounds very comprehensive. But they are not being completely honest because they do still buy and use 'new to the world' ingredients that have been tested on animals during their development. Any legal requirement to test on animals only arises because of the companies desire to use new chemicals in the hope of increasing their sales. Many companies also include rabbit logos on their packaging - but this is no guarantee that the item is genuinely cruelty-free either.

It's not just cosmetics, many household cleaning products also contain animal tested ingredients.



CAN A BOYCOTT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
In the UK alone, over a quarter of a million people have signed a pledge to boycott P&G, equivalent to over £12 million a year in lost revenue for P&G.

The fact is that the vast majority of people are opposed to Procter & Gamble’s animal cruelty, so our campaign is pushing at an open door really. All that is constraining our progress is our limited funds for campaigning and education.



YOU CAN HELP to save animals by making a crucial campaign donation.



ONE SMALL STEP
Changing habits is always going to be a little bit tricky at first. P&G’s colossal advertising budget can make you think that there aren’t any other products out there!

But, in fact, taking responsibility for your consumption is one of the most empowering and liberating things for a human being to do.

There are lots of excellent ethical products out there. The Naturewatch Compassionate Shopping Guide is an useful guide to cruelty-free companies, shops and supermarkets.

To send for your copy, simply make a donation of £5 or more.





Are you supportive of our mission and methods? Have you found the information on this site useful, enlightening and/or inspiring? Is this website valuable at all? If the answer is ‘yes’ to any of these questions, then please make a donation to Uncaged Campaigns.
http://www.uncaged.co.uk/animaltesting.htm

katfemme89
September 14th, 2012, 11:52 PM
@ Catladyintown I am in the states, so can I still donate? And if I do, will it make a difference here in the states?

teela1978
September 14th, 2012, 11:55 PM
I find that an odd comment, surely if you care, you care?

Might have to agree to disagree on this one.

Salt has been tested on animals, water has been tested on animals, oils have been tested on animals, etc....

If you avoid everything that's ever been tested on animals you won't make it for very long.

Catladyintown
September 15th, 2012, 12:00 AM
Hi Katfemme89 I believe it will help keep the website and the grassroots movement going. I go to[ a lot of website outside of the USA for most of the truths I want to know about. By the way I am in no way related to this website. But I feel it is very helpful and I do support the website. HTH:)



@ Catladyintown I am in the states, so can I still donate? And if I do, will it make a difference here in the states?

Catladyintown
September 15th, 2012, 12:03 AM
Salt has been tested on animals, water has been tested on animals, oils have been tested on animals, etc....

If you avoid everything that's ever been tested on animals you won't make it for very long.

But it does help to stay away from cosmetic brands that do test on animals. I would rather look like an ugly women, then have an animal suffer for my beauty.:cool:

teela1978
September 15th, 2012, 12:07 AM
But it does help to stay away from cosmetic brands that do test on animals. I would rather look like an ugly women, then have an animal suffer for my beauty.:cool:

My comment was in reference to people not wanting to use any ingredient that was tested on animals ever. This is how many "cruelty free" products get by. They use products that someone else has already demonstrated to be safe. If you're not willing to use ingredients that were tested decades ago then any commercial product is probably not for you.

Catladyintown
September 15th, 2012, 12:16 AM
teela1978 I know what you were trying to say. And I took no offense, I am sorry if my words come off as offensive. I agree with you on saying "If you're not willing to use ingredients that were tested decades ago then any commercial product is probably not for you." that is why I have changed little bit by little bit my whole way of living.

Catladyintown
September 15th, 2012, 12:23 AM
Now one of my biggest ethical problems is what do I do with some of my hairbrushes and combs.:confused: I really am up in the air about this. I know I will never buy any more BB brush or bone combs. But I have only really made the change within the last two months. That is when I went totally Vegan and become an animal rights activist. But I was always against animal testing for makeup and hair products. It never dawned on me about BB brushes or chocolate until recently. I guess I had selective blinders on. Very upset with myself about this.

katfemme89
September 15th, 2012, 12:38 AM
Now one of my biggest ethical problems is what do I do with some of my hairbrushes and combs.:confused: I really am up in the air about this. I know I will never buy any more BB brush or bone combs.

Bone combs... ugggh. I don't want to think about it. BBBs, on the other hand, from what I have read on the 'net (which is always SO reliable LOL), the BBBs are made from shed hairs from the boars, they are not killed for their bristles. Am I correct? But I understand that if you are vegan you don't use any animal products whatsoever, I am just curious if there's some BBB cruelty going on that I don't know about?

katfemme89
September 15th, 2012, 12:43 AM
I'm not against products that were tested on animals in the past, because there was once a time that the technology/research that we have now did not exist, and the animal testing was more necessary/practical back then. I think boycotting every single thing that's ever been tested on animals is kind of overkill. Doing that, to me, would just mean that all those animals suffered in vain. What I want to do is prevent the future abuse of animals. In this day and age, there is just no reason for it. At all.

I also agree with hitting them where it hurts-their profit. Dollar votes. That's what will truly make a difference. But being loud about it helps, too. The more people we get on board, the louder we get, and vice versa.

Catladyintown
September 15th, 2012, 12:45 AM
Bone combs... ugggh. I don't want to think about it. BBBs, on the other hand, from what I have read on the 'net (which is always SO reliable LOL), the BBBs are made from shed hairs from the boars, they are not killed for their bristles. Am I correct? But I understand that if you are vegan you don't use any animal products whatsoever, I am just curious if there's some BBB cruelty going on that I don't know about?

Hi Katfemme89 the only safe brush is bamboo bristle brush or wood comb that is not on the endangered species list of woods. Because you have no idea how the poor boar is treated:( or how they shave the boar. Because free range meat or cruelty free products can be a big lie sometimes. You have to investigate your products you use.

katfemme89
September 15th, 2012, 12:47 AM
Hi Katfemme89 the only safe brush is bamboo bristle brush or wood comb that is not on the endangered species list of woods. Because you have no idea how the poor boar is treated:( or how they shave the boar.

I have read that they are treated quite well because when they aren't, they lose their hair and what doesn't fall out gets really weak and non-viable. But once again, that's from the 'net, so who knows how reliable that is. But it kind of makes sense, I think.

Zenjam
September 15th, 2012, 01:23 AM
I stopped using their products a while ago, because I found out the same, and I just wont support something like that! L'oreal also test their products on Animals.
I dont use any brand that i know tests their products on Animals..

Dont feel bad about that you bougt it, just dont do it again :)

Bagginslover
September 15th, 2012, 03:18 AM
Salt has been tested on animals, water has been tested on animals, oils have been tested on animals, etc....

If you avoid everything that's ever been tested on animals you won't make it for very long.
That was my exact point, if you read my post before the one you quoted ;)

Toadstool
September 15th, 2012, 03:44 AM
So ingredients were tested in the past. Agree with everyone who says you can't change that. But it doesn't make it excusable to use it to think well we can't change anything now.

Henrietta
September 15th, 2012, 04:07 AM
I'm one of those who think that there is always something, always a product tested on animals and food with preservatives and a piece of clothing made in China. Moving to the wilderness would be the only solution. Or having a tons of money to be able to buy "nice" things.
But I did sign the petition on Procter and Gamble at change.org
Too bad there's so few signs :(

katfemme89
September 15th, 2012, 11:39 AM
I'm one of those who think that there is always something, always a product tested on animals and food with preservatives and a piece of clothing made in China. Moving to the wilderness would be the only solution. Or having a tons of money to be able to buy "nice" things.
But I did sign the petition on Procter and Gamble at change.org
Too bad there's so few signs :(

I agree with you there, it is disheartening. I have found that natural, cruelty free products always seem to either be way out of my price range, or not available in stores near me. I have debt collectors hounding me and one even levied my husband's entire paycheck for two weeks out of our joint account because of MY debt. I still carry guilt about that, and now I can't have a bank account or credit card to purchase anything online, because they will take the money. I am also unemployed, and if I want anything I have to get my mom or husband to purchase it for me, and it really sucks having to do that. So you see, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I just want these companies to STOP this crap, so that I can live without the guilt of funding suffering.

Amber_Maiden
September 16th, 2012, 04:19 PM
OMG! NO WAY! ugh. Not happy now. My hair loves the Aussie stuff :(

katfemme89
September 16th, 2012, 08:04 PM
OMG! NO WAY! ugh. Not happy now. My hair loves the Aussie stuff :(

Mine too!!!!!!!! After using the Aussie Moist conditioner, my hair hasn't felt this great in like, a year.

It's so WRONG. They shouldn't do things that make us feel totally guilty for buying their (great) products.

pullanmuru
September 16th, 2012, 11:12 PM
Now one of my biggest ethical problems is what do I do with some of my hairbrushes and combs.:confused: I really am up in the air about this. I know I will never buy any more BB brush or bone combs. But I have only really made the change within the last two months. That is when I went totally Vegan and become an animal rights activist. But I was always against animal testing for makeup and hair products. It never dawned on me about BB brushes or chocolate until recently. I guess I had selective blinders on. Very upset with myself about this.

Hi! I wrote about this just a moment ago in another thread here regarding ethical boar brittle brushes. I found a company that sells s eco friendly sisal hair brushes that at least they claim is similar to boar bristle brush. If you have an ebay account just search with the searchword "Vegan Sisal Hairbrush". The seller is called ethicalskincare. Unfortunately I have not yet had a chance to buy my own, so I can't tell you whether it's a good as real boar brittle brush. I'd love to try it though.

When it comes to bone hair forks and such, why not try finding one that are second hand? I buy loads of non vegan items second hand because that way I don't support those companies that I find unethical. Of course it might be somewhat harder to find such things as second hand items... but luckily there's always alternative materials. But there are some wonderful second hand and vintage hair combs and forks sold on etsy.com for example.

Catladyintown
September 16th, 2012, 11:44 PM
Thank you pullanmuru for the idea.:D I have never heard of a Sisal Hair brush. I am not sure what Sisal is made out of. Is Sisal a plant? Also I bought mostly all my hair brush collection second hand. I have around 23 BB brush ranging from 1895 to 2012. I also have two Horse hair brushes from the 1930's. My favorite is my BB Brush collection from 1945 Japan. So my collection is big. But my biggest problem is should I keep them or sell them.:confused: I am having a hard time right now thinking about even using them.:( Right now they are all in wood boxes out of sight. Thank goodness I have a wood pin bristle brush as a back up, and also a Denman rubber brush as a backup too.

pullanmuru
September 17th, 2012, 12:15 AM
I say Keep them :) But that's just how I feel. Even if you don't use them right now, keep them and and if you still feel as strongly after a few years, then you can always sell them then. I know at the beginning when person start to be aware of all the animal cruelty around us, it makes us feel very strongly about these things. You might not feel like ever wearing bone or wool or something like that now, but maybe in time it will get easier. I know I've been there :)

I think with old and vintage items is that we can't save those animals anymore, so we might as well appreciate these things. We cannot deny the beauty of these objects. Of course even if you decide you don't want to hold on to those things and maybe not wear them anymore, then you can sell them to someone who will. That's totally understandable as well. We all draw our own lines here and do what we feel is right. There are many views regarding this, I know a lot of vegans that are very strict. I personally tend to think that even the smallest effort is better than nothing and I always engourage people to do what they feel is right. No one will or at least should not judge you for using those vintage brushes and combs, but you should do what you feel is right. But I would advice you to wait a while before selling them because you might even regret it later.

Oh and yes, sisal is made of plant fibres.

Catladyintown
September 17th, 2012, 01:02 AM
Thank you Pullanmuru.:D For right now I am storing them away. I will take your advice and wait and see how I feel in six months or a year. I know definitely that I will not buy another BB Brush or a bone comb.

DreadfulWoman
September 17th, 2012, 01:31 AM
Thank you pullanmuru for the idea.:D I have never heard of a Sisal Hair brush. I am not sure what Sisal is made out of. Is Sisal a plant? Also I bought mostly all my hair brush collection second hand. I have around 23 BB brush ranging from 1895 to 2012. I also have two Horse hair brushes from the 1930's. My favorite is my BB Brush collection from 1945 Japan. So my collection is big. But my biggest problem is should I keep them or sell them.:confused: I am having a hard time right now thinking about even using them.:( Right now they are all in wood boxes out of sight. Thank goodness I have a wood pin bristle brush as a back up, and also a Denman rubber brush as a backup too.

I have to agree with pullanmuru. It sounds like this is a collection you really enjoy, and selling it wouldn't prevent any suffering. So I say keep it and enjoy it, and focus on what can be done in the here and now to prevent animal suffering. Also, don't be so hard on yourself! Being vegan/ cruelty free is hard work. Just do the best you can, and know that every effort you make does make a difference.

Catladyintown
September 17th, 2012, 02:27 AM
Thank you Dreadfullwomam.:D:D

DreadfulWoman
September 17th, 2012, 09:39 AM
As far as the animal testing thing goes, I've been vegan 10+ years and it's still an issue that makes my head swim. It seems like there are so few cruelty free brands that are both in my price range and available where I shop. However, I don't think that's a reason to throw up our hands and give in to animal testing. Just because animal testing can't be completely avoided, that's not to say it has to be tolerated either.

For me, I divide companies up between those I avoid like the plague because they shamelessly continue to test on animals (*cough* P&G), those which don't test on animals at all, which I try to buy from whenever it's an option, and everything in between, which I'll buy from when it's the best or only option. Not a perfect system for sure, but I feel better about it than doing nothing.

That said, I actually feel quite hopeful about the whole animal testing situation. A few people here have mentioned misleading labels on items such as "this product not tested on animals", when in fact it was the ingredients that were tested, not the product, or the company that makes that product does test other products on animals. But what does that tell you? It tells you that even the big companies know that animal testing is an issue that matters to its customers, and they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. So you should write to them, and let them know that you're not fooled, and that you don't intend to buy those products again until they can back those statements up. If they didn't care at all they wouldn't be trying to make those false claims in the first place.

Also, know that you don't have to do a lot of research to learn the parent company of any given brand. You can generally find the name of the parent company in small print on the back of any product. Whenever I find myself buying something I haven't bought before I always flip it over and see who I'm really buying it from.

To the OP: Sorry your hair loves the Aussie stuff so much. It's such a bummer when that happens. :(

beautifulending
September 19th, 2012, 12:27 AM
Aw man :( I love their 3 mm too.

Toadstool
September 19th, 2012, 03:54 AM
I stopped using it for this reason :-(
Now I use Joico k-pak (don't need much because my hair is so short so I can afford the outlay) and I have to say it is AMAZING. My hair has never felt so good.