Help, rough ends!

[Oskimosa]

I haven't been here long, but even before LHC I thought I was taking pretty good care of my hair. When I cut it short, it was razored and layered, but it was done wet with a sharp razor. Now, I use moisturizing shampoo bars, never flat iron or blow dry, and hardly brush or comb my hair; when I do, I am very gentle.

So WHY are my ends so rough, crunchy, and woody feeling?? I can't find any splits. Yet, they feel so yucky that I think they cause my hair to tangle somewhat. I never get knots, but my hair seems to get somewhat twisted up and won't lay flat because my ends catch on each other. When I look at them, the hairs seem individually healthy, and I don't see any damage. But as a whole, YUCK! The rest of the length feels good, but the ends... Ugh, I don't get it. Anyone else have this? Any suggestions??? I hate to trim because it is growing so slow. Help, please!

[Arctic]

Have you been clarifying lately?
How long have it been since the last trim?
What kind of hair routine you have and what have you tried so far to help the ends?

[spidermom]

Try a clarifying shampoo first, massaging the suds all the way through the ends. Let us know how that goes.

[Gothic Lolita]

I'm not an expert on shampoo bars, but I remember some people saying that they just didn't work for them. They got, like you, dry, crunchy ends. Maybe you could try a different washing method. I don't know which you've already tried, maybe CO would be an option.

Do you use oils on your hair? For me, they simply don't work and I get crunchy ends. Thr only other thing that might cause this felling might be too much protein. But I think it would built up on the whole length. To have proof you need to take a shed hair and pull it. If it stretches very much, but doesn't break it could be the protein.

[spidermom]

Soap simply does not rinse clean, even in the soft water we have around here. I'm constantly having to scrub out the bathtub ring. If you must use soap in your hair, you must also finish with a diluted vinegar rinse.

[dorothea-brooke]

I second what spidermom says. Clarify first, so you know it's not product build-up.

There's a very helpful article (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44) on diagnosing hair issues in the Articles section.

Good luck!

[Arctic]

Do you use oils on your hair? For me, they simply don't work and I get crunchy ends. Thr only other thing that might cause this felling might be too much protein. But I think it would built up on the whole length. To have proof you need to take a shed hair and pull it. If it stretches very much, but doesn't break it could be the protein.


I have to disagree-- from what I have read, in a case you describe, the hairshaft actually NEEDS protein. If the hair does not stretch and breaks easily, then it might have too much protein. This is an excellent article (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?cat=69) about moisture protein balance.

[Gothic Lolita]

Arctic: It might be that I messed the whole thing up. And after reading this article it seems very likely, you're right it is excellent. Now I wonder wether somebody told me just that (I looked it up again) in a German forum.


So, Oskimosa: Arctic is right!

[Arctic]

Gothic Lolita: That's OK, I have found this whole protein/ moisture thing very hard to understand myself. This article I linked to is the best and clearest I have found :flower:
(Hope I didn't come out as unpolite in my previous message)

[Gothic Lolita]

I didn't take you impolite at all but was glad that you cleared up my mistake. A few days ago I did that test on myself and wondered how my hair could have lack of protein after a protein containing deep treatment!^^ Now I know!

[FrannyG]

My ends get rough and velcro-like if I need to clarify. So like just about everyone else, I suggest that you clarify, followed by a good moisture treatment.

I also find that giving my ends a soak in coconut or olive oil before I wash (I use the CO method) seems to also keep my ends smoother for longer.

Let us know how it all turns out! :)

[wendyg]

spidermom: that's a known problem to do with soft water - soap doesn't dissolve as well, so leaves marks and scum, etc. Hard water soaps dont lather as much, but they rinse out clean.

wg

[spidermom]

spidermom: that's a known problem to do with soft water - soap doesn't dissolve as well, so leaves marks and scum, etc. Hard water soaps dont lather as much, but they rinse out clean.

wg

I don't think so (but sometimes I'm wrong). We used to have hard water (in Ohio), and I was told that it was the minerals in the water combining with the soap that formed the bathtub ring (also scum floating on the water). I remember washing my hair with soap back then (ran out of shampoo), and my hair turned into a sticky-icky mess. I had to wash it with dishwashing liquid to get it out.

[Tangles]

This happened to me once and clarifying helped a lot. (But just do it once--clarifying every week dries out more.)

Sometimes, hair just gets dried out for no apparent reason. This often happens to me after a long period of totally pampering my hair, in fact. If you haven't been eating quite right or exercising enough or if you've been sick lately that could explain it.

[Curlsgirl]

Too much protein can cause the ends to be crunchy especially if you have a sensitivity to it or buildup can cause crunchiness too like others have said. Oil on dry ends can also cause my to be terribly crunchy. I have hard water and could not use shampoo bars. ICK! They did okay at first but then felt icky and wouldn't rinse clean. The ACV rinse didn't help either.

Another thing you might consider is that if you had your hair razored, you could just need to trim a tiny bit off the ends. It may not take much. Razoring can cause breakage and splits and if it's that the only thing to do is trim. Other than that, I have a "magic formula" that I use when I can't figure out what else to do. I braid my hair and wet the tassle thoroughly in distilled water then press it out gently with my fingers. Then I saturate the tassle with coconut oil and press that out again with my fingers gently. Then I just let it dry by itself. This saved me from getting my ends trimmed so much. You can do a longer tassle or shorter one however long the crunchiness goes up into your hair. First you could clarify though to make sure you do have all of the buildup off.

[Oskimosa]

Woah!! Thanks for all the replies.

Ok, I clarified LAST week, so I want to say that's not the issue. My ends were rough before and after, (and also, before I cut off all my hair, those ends would always be crunchy and rough too--but I used sulfates and cones then.) Looking at the ends, they all have a very blunt tip, and there doesn't APPEAR to be damage; but no two hairs are the same length as it was a highly layered and thinned cut.

I have never oiled my hair, and I always had crunchy ends even before switching to the bars. I don't use styling prodcuts either. And, after each shampoo, I use a mildly acidic rinse of either diluted ACV or lime juice.

My hair is coarse, and my hands are in it alot to get it out of my face, especially at this annoying short length. I wonder if the hairs are just getting too damaged from friction against one another? But if that's true, only cutting will solve it :(

BTW; the top layers are worse off than the ones underneath; the yucky feeling goes about 3" up on those.

[missmanytoes]

Okimosa, do you have hard or soft water? If you have hard water you may have mineral build up which will probably not be taken care of with a regular clarifying shampoo. I think (think is the operative word here) that you can mix a tsp of baking soda in a dollop of your non ALS (and non SLS) shampoo and that will help to alleviate mineral buildup. Just remember to thoroughly rinse and use lots of conditioner as BS is quite drying. And definitely check the ingredients on your 'poo bottle as ALS and SLS 'poos combine with something in the BS and produce a very strong ammonia smell when you're 'pooing. Freaked me right out and you betcha I know which 'poos I can mix with BS now!

[NurseMama]

Are you using oil on dry hair? That will create dry ends for me even if I am doing ok with protein and moisture.

[Anje]

I used a conditioner with a lot of silk protein in it (VO5 Champagne Kiss) for a few weeks a few months ago and experienced exactly what you're describing -- strange, rough (not exactly too-much-coconut-oil crunch, though) ends that persisted despite clarifying, ACV, etc. Mine didn't really respond to a small trim, and there was not visible damage. Clarified with an ALS shampoo and BS (alarming smell!), but it didn't help the ends.

What worked for me was to make SMT mix with a protein-free conditioner. I did an SMT and used what was left on my ends while I COed with the same protein-free conditioner. Maybe 2 weeks and 4 washings later, my hair went back to normal. The offending conditioner has since been relegated to shaving duty.

[Oskimosa]

Hmm. I had clarified using BS. And when I yank out a hair and stretch it, I get appropriately tough stretch resistence (and elasticity to shrink back) for my hair type, and it takes quite some pulling to snap. That tells me I have a good amount of protien. I'm so lazy, I NEVER do SMT's or any deep treatments. My length always feels fine. And I only use CV shampoo/soap bars. And like I said, no oilings.

Maybe it's just because the length is so chaotic and heavily layered. It looks awful to me, but I don't want to lose length :(

[Arctic]

Oskimosa, does your hair rub against your shoulders at the length you're at? I'm not sure if that could be part of the problem, but the shoulder stage is rough on the ends because of the constant rubbing. I used a lot of little claw clips at your length to make "buns", and often pinned or frenchbraided the fringe off of my face (I don't like when my hair's on my face :) ).

Ok, so you clarifyed now with BS? I can say from personal experience (everyone is different, ofcourse), that BS clarifying was NOTHING compared to the effect of clarifying shampoo. Not only did the shampoo a better job, it was also more gentle to my hair and scalp.

Just for fun, here is a microscopic photograph of a hair that has been razored. Razoring typically leaves hairs cut like this --> / while scissors should leave it like this --> l .

http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_70/hair_twh_70_03.jpg
Source (http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_70.htm)


ETA: You really should try some moisturizing, non protein deep conditioning, imho :)

[Shanarana]

Oh no........not the picture. shudder:

[Arctic]

Oh no........not the picture. shudder:

He he :face:

[Oskimosa]

Haha, yea, I've seen that picture before. But that's why I said my ends look blunt. They're so thick and coarse, you can really tell. And I think that swirly end CAN happen if a dull blade is used or if it is used on dry hair.

Maybe some kind of deep treatment would work. I guess I am lazy but also reluctant to try because of fear of making the rest of my hair horribly greasy. Can't hurt to try, though.

[pariate]

I feel for you, I hope the treatment works. What are you planning on using? SMT? Heavy oiling?

[spidermom]

I just noticed that my coarse white hairs feel rough from scalp to ends.

[podo]

Other than that, I have a "magic formula" that I use when I can't figure out what else to do. I braid my hair and wet the tassle thoroughly in distilled water then press it out gently with my fingers. Then I saturate the tassle with coconut oil and press that out again with my fingers gently. Then I just let it dry by itself.

I must try this. I've been looking for a way to get my ends oiled without oiling the rest of my hair.

After seeing the picture (above) of razored ends, I'd definitely recommend a small trim (dusting?). Those ends don't look like they'd feel rough one by one, but those curly ends will definitely catch on each other!

[pariate]

I must try this. I've been looking for a way to get my ends oiled without oiling the rest of my hair.

When I don't want to oil the entire length of my hair I just warm the oil between my finger tips and apply it in small sections where I need it.

[Nightshade]

Oh no........not the picture. shudder:


He he :face:

:lol: You guys are a hoot.


Oskimosa have you tried shea butter or Fox's Shea butter conditioning cream (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4586)? I use a variation of this with a bit of honey and some other stuff in it, but I had terribly crunchy ends too. Clarifying didn't help, oiling didn't help, it it was going to take off way too much length to cut it all off.

My theory is that if your ends are a bit damaged (roughed cuticle from dye/abrasion/etc) that they may be short on protein. Using protein treatments seldom seemed to do jack for my hair, however, someone hypothesized at one point that it's protein in the hair that oils grab to. Oiling my hair made the crunchy thing WORSE, so perhaps because of the damage and lack of protein it just wasn't doing it's thing to the hair properly (how's that for vague?).

Shea is an emollient, which means that it helps the upraised cuticle on skin and hair lay back down. This helps reduce tangling and keeps in moisture :) It worked on my ends when nothing else did, anyway.

[Oskimosa]

I so so so appreciate everyone jumping in to help me with my hair issue :). I was getting really bummed thinking this was something I'll have to just live with, since it's been an issue in the past.

I tried some more moisturizing bars, but after a couple of days, my hair was feeling like doll hair. Incredibly clumpy and waxy. (it didn't help that I went for a quick swim in a pool either.)

So, first I used some old leave-in expensive AIG condish that has cones in it and rubbed it all in my hair in the shower, hoping to do a sort of "CWC" and buffer the next step. I took Arctic's advice about using SLS instead of baking soda and used some diluted dish soap to clarify. (What, I have no shampoo in the house now!) Then I used my shampoo bar, some lime rinse, and finished with cool water.

Feeling good so far. If not, I'll have to start with some deep treatments, maybe some shea like Nightshade said. Whew, I hate the maintenence, but it'll be worth it!

[pariate]

Whew, I hate the maintenence, but it'll be worth it!

:lol: I feel your pain! It's a love/hate thing, isn't it?! I love fussing over my hair and pampering myself - it's about the only opportunity I get - but sometimes it irritates me because of the many things I feel I have to constantly think about and be aware of. I just want to have nice hair and wear it down, but I don't do that because it would lead to yucky hair... My hair doesn't do very well left loose. It needs some serious TLC for a few months. :rolleyes:

[totie]

When I cut it short, it was razored and layered, but it was done wet with a sharp razor....
So WHY are my ends so rough, crunchy, and woody feeling??.....
The rest of the length feels good, but the ends... Ugh, I don't get it. Anyone else have this?
Yeh I do....
When I had my hair cut a couple of months ago the hairdresser convinced me that she needed to razor cut the layers to 'thin' out my hair as it also was thick and mostly one length. BIGGEST mistake ever made for my hair.
The ends of the layers are also rough, crunchy and itchy even when they touch my shoulders.
For me it definately was the razor cut because my ends underneath are soft and smooth.
Im seriously thinking about having them trimmed just to even them up.

[Oskimosa]

totie, my underneath isn't so bad either. It's mostly the top. I was looking at the hairs around my face and easily found 4 split ends. Everywhere else I had looked, I didn't see any. Just those hairs around my face. Those got the most razoring. Yuck! This haircut was supposed to be a bit of a fresh start for me, but all it has done is create problems. Never never again! If I start whining about cutting my hair, someone PLEASE plaster this thread in front of my face.

[jojo]

I get this problem from time to time and it was Shadow walker who suggested dipping my ends in olive oil and leaving over night, then washing it out. My hair's ends are much softer after doing this.

[GreenGables]

Have you tried to oil the ends, that might work.

Or you ould try to make a bun where the ends are turned inwards to the scalp and can benefit from the natural sebum you produce, that works fairly well for me when my ends are crunchy.