Hair Advise: 1b/c, i/11, CO - Frizz or Texture?

[Dana]

I have been COing solidly for about 3-4 months. My hair LOVES it!

I came from heavy 'cone usage, dabbled in BS/ACV, which was too damaging to my hair (or I did it wrong), then I went back to normal shampoo/condish for a while, and now I'm (thankfully!) back to CO.

So here's my problem... After COing the hair at my scalp is wonderfully smooth and shiny. Below my ears, my hair gets frizzy and kind of poofy. It isn't terrible, but it's annoying. Let's say the hair at my scalp is 1/4" "high" and the hair at the bottom might be 2".

Any idea how I can find out if it's "frizz" or if it's my normal texture? And then what to do about it once I know?

I have looked and my hair does not appear to be broken, the difference seems to be a change in texture. My hair has a lot of differing textures after it reaches my ears, but above not so much (a small amount, but not a lot).

The "textured" hair below my ears also seems rather dry and straw-like, even with COing. I condition my hair with a little Biolage Hydratherapie as a leave-in.

I comb through in the shower with a seamless wide-soothed comb. After applying the leave-in, I run a quick brush through it to part my hair and evenly distribute it around my head/shoulders. I then let it air-dry.

I tend to HATE hair around my face/ears (it's too hot) so I put it back in a ponytail most days, or sometimes a clip (I twist it like a lazy french twist and clip).

Any thoughts? Am I being too harsh on my hair? If so, what do you guys suggest I do differently?

If you guys think my hair is damaged/under-nourished, how do I figure out what my hair needs?

If you think it's just my normal texture, is there anything else I can do to tame it? When dry it isn't textured enough to really have a "style".

If I put it back with soft scrunchies in a low ponytail with the scrunchies in 3 places, it tends to calm things down a bit.

[Ml001]

My initial guess would be you need more moisture. Also consider cutting back on the biolage - it has protien in it and it might too much for your hair.

[vanillabones]

I have the same hair type, and have the same problem ... although I do not CO because of greasy roots but it's getting better with time. I'd love to hear suggestions as well, although I am aware I have some old bleach left on my ends but it can't be that much!
I am going to try almond oil I hope this may help if my hair enjoys it?

[lippleyluv]

Your texture sounds very much like mine. I am presently CWC. I wash with very diluted shampoo, with Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition Conditioner on the length which I have added olive oil to. I rinse it all out and then put about a dime-to-nickel sized dab of the same GRTN onto the ends of my hair. Air or blow dry & that's it.

I have been doing it this way alternating between CO & CWC (depending on the season) for two years now. The only thing I do to my hair that is "harsh" is color the roots (only) every month. My hair is always somewhat fuzzy in texture below my ears. :( I have come to believe that my wavy, coarse textured hair is just...slightly fuzzy. I don't like it & lust after the sleek glossy tresses of others but this is what I have to work with & I try hard to accept it. It is not damaged. I have almost no splits or breakage. It just has what I find to be an undesirable texture. :rolleyes:

I do find any protein AT ALL in my products dries my hair RIGHT THE HECK OUT. So maybe try focusing on moisture instead?

Hope this helps.:)

[Dana]

Wow thanks for the quick tips!!

If I wanted to test to see if too much protein is the culprit, what should I do? Hubby just bought Paul Mitchell Tea Tree 'Poo/Condish. These are the ingredients in the Tea Tree, not sure if any of these are protein?


Water (Aqua), Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Isododecane, Isohexadecane, Melaleuca Alternifolia Leaf Oil (Tea Tree), Mentha Piperita Oil (Peppermint), Dimethicone Bisamino Hydroxypropyl Copolyol/White Ginger/Dimethicone Copolyol, Dimethicone Bisamino Hydroxypropyl Copolyol, Algae, Aloe Barbadensis, Chamomile/Henna Jojoba/Rosemary/Dimethicone Copolyol, Lavandula Angustifolia Oil (Lavender), Methylparaben, Tetrasodium EDTA, PPG 5 Ceteth 20, DMDM Hydantoin, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Citric Acid, Blue 1 (CI 42090), Yellow 5 (CI 19140)

I might try that conditioner tomorrow, or a WO wash (no big plans tomorrow!) and see how my hair reacts. What's a good way to get more moisture? Oiling, or something else?

[lippleyluv]

I'm not great with ingredients but i don't see any obvious proteins in there. Give it a try, see what you think. My hair is SO sensitive to protein that it only takes one wash to feel the difference.

[Ml001]

I don't see any protein. Lots of 'cones and other stuff, though. It seemed in your first post you were looking to avoid all of that? (at least the 'cones). Anyway, I also can tell immediately if my product has too much protein. There is information in the LHC community about protein and determining if your hair has too much, not enough, etc.

[Dana]

ML, I remember seeing such a post a while back, but I've been unsuccessful in finding it again!! The Search Gods are not with me it seems. :) I'll do a few more searches and hopefully get it soon!

[Dana]

Thanks again for the tips! I did Snowy's Massage Technique last night before bed, and again this afternoon before my shower. I also did a water-only "wash", and applied the Tea Tree (no protein) conditioner to my ends.

I also did not use my wide-tooth brush, and just stuck with my comb. I think I need to buy a BBB; I don't think my hair is textured enough that it would make it look horrible.

I will continue with the Tea Tree conditioner to see how far the benefits go. My hair may also just like 'cones. I'll also keep with the Snowy Massage Technique and see how long my water-only "washes" will go before I need a CO.

[spidermom]

You might have your hair typed wrong. Try letting it dry without combing or brushing through, then show us a picture. As far as I'm concerned, you can still comb conditioner through in the shoulder, then rinse and let it dry. I know if I did a hair typing picture without conditioner, as some recommend, what you would see is a cloud of fluff, not a curl or wave pattern.

Anyway, I suspect that your hair is wavier than you think, and you're breaking up the pattern by that "quick brush through", which causes the frizziness and puffiness that you complain of.

[Kelikea]

You might have your hair typed wrong. Try letting it dry without combing or brushing through, then show us a picture. As far as I'm concerned, you can still comb conditioner through in the shoulder, then rinse and let it dry. I know if I did a hair typing picture without conditioner, as some recommend, what you would see is a cloud of fluff, not a curl or wave pattern.

Anyway, I suspect that your hair is wavier than you think, and you're breaking up the pattern by that "quick brush through", which causes the frizziness and puffiness that you complain of.

I second spidermom's advice. Do a hair typing photo so we can see what you are dealing with. Also, check the fluffy part for signs of damage, such as white dots and splits. S&D those.

[lapushka]

I second spidermom's advice. Do a hair typing photo so we can see what you are dealing with. Also, check the fluffy part for signs of damage, such as white dots and splits. S&D those.

Thirding! A hair typing pic would be best, I think! :)

[Dana]

I'll see what I can do tomorrow! So can I still detangle it and then let it try, then post a picture?

I am thinking you're right. I notice a lot more waves than I was used to without using the brush, I thought it was kind of nice. Not sure what I do with them, though, they are rather unorganized and unruly. ;)

[lapushka]

I'll see what I can do tomorrow! So can I still detangle it and then let it try, then post a picture?

I am thinking you're right. I notice a lot more waves than I was used to without using the brush, I thought it was kind of nice. Not sure what I do with them, though, they are rather unorganized and unruly. ;)

If I'm not mistaken, I think you're supposed to detangle wet, then dry it off and let it be.

[Dana]

Thanks very much, I'll do that tomorrow and post a photo!

[Dana]

Okay, here are some photos from this morning! Please excuse the grainy first few - I finally figured out how to take photos from the front of the camera without using a mirror!

I did my normal CO wash, applied a non-protein conditioner (it has 'cones though) as a leave-in, and detangled. To demonstrate the effect of light brushing, I finger-combed the left side of my hair (MY left) once or twice and left the right-hand side totally alone.

Here's the photo set in Flickr (for larger versions of the photos, below): http://www.flickr.com/photos/15609003@N05/sets/72157631503000704/

First photo taken about 10 minutes after shower.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7972681198_78431f9cbe_m.jpg


Here is a detail shot of the waves while wet:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/7972680862_f5806234b9_m.jpg


Here is a photo of my hair while almost dry:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/7972678764_6c91ef168d_m.jpg

And another close-up of the texture while almost dry:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/7972679554_a1fa99dbc8_m.jpg


And here it is, dry - the hair on the right-hand side of the photo has been gently finger-combed once or twice, while I've left the hair on left-hand side of the photo alone:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7972678648_b7ef7a2f29_m.jpg

Here is a shot of the hair near my scalp, it looks very damaged, but is quite soft to the touch.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8033/7972678508_eb084d69ba_m.jpg

And here are the waves:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/7972678340_fd4b68815d_m.jpg

[spidermom]

O.k., the hair on MY right, looks more wavy, less poufy. If I'm understanding you, that is your left side - the side that you did not comb - in which case I think your natural waves put you somewhere between 1C and 2A. You might try scrunching your hair while it dries.

To get my best wave and curl pattern, I would comb conditioner through in the shower, then do nothing except smooth a bit of styling gel or aloe vera gel over the surface to discourage all the shorter and newer hairs from standing on end plus finger-combed some gel through my hair. Then I just let it hang down my back while I typed.

[Dana]

Thanks! I will need to read up a bit on caring for wavy hair, I'm totally ignorant (no idea what plopping or scrunching mean) - my mom has stick-straight hair and I always treated my own hair the same way.

I just oiled it a small amount with some EVOO, so I'll let that sit for a few hours and give the aloe gel a try.

[lapushka]

I'm thinking you're a 1c or thereabouts.

[Dana]

So what do you guys think? Does it look like my hair is damaged, or is does it just look like I've been treating it like a 1a and I need to care for it properly? I will continue the non-protein conditioners to see if too much protein might have added to the damage.

[torrilin]

Looks to me like you've been treating it like straight hair, and it's not.

Think of the waves as protective. They are a bit, tho not a much as an updo. You don't necessarily have to wear your hair down and wavy. Just futz around a bit to figure out ways to put your hair up without combing out every bit of wave :).

[Dana]

Thanks, Torrilin! I am doing my first plop after oiling a little, applying conditioner, and some aloe gel. I have about 10-15m before I need to run out the door, but we'll see. :)

I would love to do some better up-dos but my hair isn't long enough yet. I need to read up on bunning when wet (not just damp). When my hair was longer, I would take my hair down in the evening and it would still be damp from the morning. I stopped doing that because I wasn't sure if that much water, and never seeming to dry, would be bad?

I'll post back later, maybe with a picture if the difference is enough. :) And I swear it won't be in my PJs again.

[Dana]

I was able to plop my hair for a good 2-3 hours today. I noticed that my hair was still damp, so I let it down.

Yesterday I plopped for about 45 minutes and then had to run for lunch. I'm sure I finger-combed it some (a nervous/bored habit), but I remember it looking much more "tame". Yesterday I oiled first, then realized that I forget the conditioner, and applied it on top of the oil. Not sure if it matters, but today I did the conditioner first, then the oil, and finally the aloe gel.

I am not crazy about the aloe gel, and I might just be using too much of it. It seems to crunch my hair too much. When I finger-comb it (habit) my fingers get caught, so I'm guessing it's the gel that's making my hair stick together. So I don't think that's a good thing for me. :) I'll try using a LOT less tomorrow, but I may just see what my hair does without it.

My hair is still drying today, but I didn't notice much wave definition yesterday; might have been the finger-combing, so I'm going to try harder today to not touch my hair until it's dry.

[Dana]

So here is my hair today, after 4 days of the Tea Tree conditioner. It has 'cones, but does not have protein. I have also been oiling a little with EVOO after showering.

I did not put aloe gel in it today, nor did I do a CO wash (did WO today). I finger-combed it a couple of times during the day.

I am not sure which part is helping more, the no-protein part of the conditioner, the 'cone part of the conditioner, or the oiling. I might switch back to the old conditioner for a few days while continuing to oil to see if that's the magic ingredient. If it really is the new conditioner, I guess I'll save the protein one for an occasional treatment.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8041/7983556775_dc8901676f.jpg

Detail:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8443/7983579740_6c0b149402.jpg