The Shampoo Bar Thread

[chloeishere]

I used a lime juice rinse for a while, and had much better results using citric acid. I think the "other stuff" in lime juice (other than the citric acid) didn't rinse out of my hair well, and left it dry. But stick with what works for you!
As for the citric acid conversion, I'm really not sure. I think 1:15 would be pretty weak-- I'd probably do maybe half a teaspoon of CA in maybe 5 cups of water, and go from there? That's pretty weak, I think. Maybe even a quarter teaspoon?
Vinegar is a relatively weak acid-- I suspect that's one of the reasons so many people use it. You don't exactly need to worry about a chemical burn on your scalp, even if you accidentally dump pure vinegar on your head! I couldn't stand smelling like that, though.
Lemon juice, in my opinion, has other components to it that make it drying. I've never had as much of a problem with citric acid than lemon juice.
Citric acid is pretty safe, in my opinion (I've definitely gotten powder on myself and my clothes a few times without issue), but you would NOT want a really concentrated citric acid rinse on your head. YOUCH! I mixed up a pretty strong citric acid/ conditioner mix once (based on a thread on the old LHC-- the miracle of citric acid, or something like that), and it burned a little when it got on my back. It didn't leave a red mark, but I decided that was way too strong for my taste!

The last time I made a CA rinse, I did about half a teaspoon in 4 cups of water (and some ascorbic acid/ vitamin C as well). I've done much stronger than that (maybe 3x more concentrated) without issue, as well.


I still haven't found a need to use an acid rinse with dairy whip, by the way!

[Kazazi]

Thanks Chloe. I've been reading your blog posts about dairy whip with interest (great blog btw!) and I have to say it sounds really intriguing. Definitely on my list to try at some point in the future, but I need to pace myself

[n3m3sis42]

First of all, MermaidGirl and Kazazi, I'm really glad you were able to fix some of your waxiness issues.

Now, could some of ye experts help me out with these questions:

1) How strong would you say would a 1:15 lemon juice rinse 'translated' into a vinegar rinse?
2) Is there any difference between lemon juice and citric acid, other than the latter being a powder?
3) If I wanted to use citric acid, what dilution would create the same strength as 1:15 lemon juice?
4) I have heard lemon juice described as drying. Why would it be more drying than vinegar and what's the best way to offset this? I am just confused that so many people rave about vinegar despite not liking the smell, but few people use lemon juice in a similar way?
5) For those of you who experimented quite a bit to find the 'perfect' acid rinse - how and when did you know you got it? Only once your hair was dry, or could you already tell when applying it? I am asking because with any of my acid rinses so far, I have had the instant slip success feel, but yet my hair would often dry in waxies. It would be nice if there was a way of knowing about the quality of a rinse right away because the condition of the hair when dry can be affected by so many other things like how and where it dries, you know?

Still not really an expert, but I'll do my best to answer these questions.

1) I did a little (VERY little) Internet research on the pH of lemon juice and vinegar. It looks like lemon juice is a little more acidic than vinegar (2.2 versus around 2.4). So you'd probably need a little weaker rinse if you used lemon juice than if you used ACV. If I remember correctly, a lot people on LHC use a 1:10 ACV rinse.

I'm not a chemist, so I'm not really sure how much difference that .2 makes.

http://www.apple-cider-vinegar-benef...f-vinegar.html

2) I've never tried either, but I've heard both work. My assumption is that the main difference comes from the other components of lemon juice--citric acid is just one component of lemon juice (according to the wikipedia article on "lemon", lemon juice is about 5% citric acid), so your dilution would need to be different if you used straight citric acid. Also, if you use bottled lemon juice, there are preservatives in it (which may be fine, but it's a factor to consider).

Here's another (maybe tl;dr for some, but interesting to me) random link I found while Googling that seems to support the idea that lemon juice is about 5% citric acid:
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodiu...citricacid.txt

3) I haven't really researched this much, but I did a thread search and eventually it led me to this thread from The Beauty Bottle:
http://chatter.thebeautybottle.com/s...ead.php?t=1533

4) I'm assuming that the reason lemon juice would be more drying than ACV would either be due to its slightly more acidic pH or due to other components of lemon juice that are not in ACV. Sorry, that's kinda vague.

5) I actually figured out the ACV rinse ratio that made my hair happy when I was doing a baking soda wash no-poo routine. So I can't really speak to how you would know before your hair dried with shampoo bars if you'd gotten the perfect ratio. I can tell you how *my* hair feels after the ACV rinse with my current shampoo bar/ACV regimen, and maybe that will help in some way. After a shampoo bar wash and ACV rinse, my hair almost always has that "squeaky clean" feeling, where it actually does squeak when I run my hands over it. However, when I get out of the shower, I don't have any trouble detangling it with a comb (and it usually doesn't have many tangles at all before combing). The squeaky thing scared me at first, but I'm used to it now. It's more apparent with some bars than others (I think the more moisturizing bars make it squeak less). I have only tried CV bars, so it may be different with the Serpentine ones.

I hope at least some of that is mildly helpful.

[MermaidGirl]

Thank you for your kind words, Kazazi and n3m3sis42!

Ok, so yesterday after my hair was completely dry, it seemed like it was mostly back to normal. There might be a little bit of build-up still on it, but it is probably about 96-98% normal. Tomorrow morning when I wash again, I will do a couple conditioner washes first and then a shampoo (a normal, non-stripping, cone-free shampoo, not the BioLustre Cleaning Shampoo again) followed by a final run through of a cone-free, light conditioner. I'm hoping that gets any remaining build-up out of my hair.

And I will say it again, NO MORE POO BARS FOR ME! Darn it, I had such high hopes for them, too!

[aprilmay]

I am about to go wash my hair with a Lemongrass Soap Bar and then Avalon Lavender conditioner which I have added tea tree oil to.

[rossjen]

Over the course of the last month, I've finally gotten my hands on some CV bars, after reading both shampoo bar threads with great interest. I have the Olive Babassu, Extra Honey, Beer and Egg, and the Lavender Spice.
I decided to try the Honey, Beer and Egg today. While I initially thought about doing a baking soda rinse to prep my hair, I decided against it since all I've been doing is shampooing my hair over the past couple of months anyway, so I was crossing my fingers that residual buildup wouldn't be too much of an issue.
Following what I've read here, I lathered up very well, making sure that I covered as much hair as possible. I also took the time to lather the suds through, particularly at the nape and sides. After that, I rinsed everything out thoroughly, all the while dreading that I would feel some stickyness as I ran my fingers through the length. While I felt a little bit of a drag in one spot, it really was not as bad as I was anticipating. So, that was a nice surprise.
Now came the real test: combing. A little bit of trouble in some areas, but again, not nearly as bad as I was expecting. It may have been a figment of my imagination, but my hair seemed to dry quite a bit faster too (anyone else have that experience?).
It's fully dry now, and I am thrilled to pieces: As someone who has notoriously oily hair, my crown actually has some lift to it, and my hair feels clean and soft, and it has some substantial body to it. And all this without having to use an acid rinse.
I hope I won't jinx these results, but if this keeps up, Ida has another convert. I can see a serious addiction developing here.

[n3m3sis42]

rossjen, I'm glad you're having a good initial experience with the CV shampoo bars! HB&E is one of my favorites so far, too.

Out of curiosity, what sort of routine did you use before this?

[Kazazi]

Thanks for all the info n3m3sis42. Very helpful

I shall experiment with a citric acid rinse next time I use a poo bar.

Kaz x

[loves2spin]

I am about to go wash my hair with a Lemongrass Soap Bar and then Avalon Lavender conditioner which I have added tea tree oil to.

How did it work out? Well, dear friends, as my DH has said to me, "Aww... you're always trying to do things on the cheap." Yep! I'm a dyed-in-the-wool penny pincher. SO - yesterday I made a batch of shampoo bar soap. It looks to be about a 3# batch, and of course it will be a few weeks before I can try it out, but oh I do hope it turns out to be good. Even if it's not, I'm sure it will make great bath soap. I will let you all know! The thing is, I have soft water. Do any of you have hard water and successfully use poo bars?

[vindo]

These look delicious: http://www.chagrinvalleysoapandcraft.com/shambar.htm#SHAMPOO%20BARS%20INTRO

I am wondering if the coconut is a detergent as in Coco Glucoside or if its simply coco nut extract or oil? They dont specify it.

The ingredients sound great:

Ingredients: Saponified oils of an organic marsh mallow root infused grapeseed and avocado blend, babassu, coconut, castor bean, palm kernel, camellia, jojoba, wheat germ butter, mango butter, walnut, shea butter, wheat germ, and rice bran; marsh mallow root mucilage; organic aloe; essential oils of ylang ylang, lemon, and ginger; vitamin E oil; and rosemary oil extract.

But I have been wanting to try a Castile Soap, meaning no real cleansing detergent. Wonder if this really is one.

Has anyone tried these or knows more about their cleansing agent?

And for those who have tried them I would love to hear how you liked it.