Wurly and Curly thread!!!

[Hollyfire3]

I've never seen any medical reason for CO-washing causing shedding. Unless you're using a conditioner you're allergic to or something with a depilatory agent in it, there is nothing that should cause shedding other than what one would normally get.

I think what is more common is that people tend to actually rub their scalp more with conditioner than they do with shampoo, so more hair that would normally have been shed throughout the course of a normal day ends up getting shed in the shower. Similar to what happens to people who use the "Curly Girl" method -- without brushes/combs/fingers being run through their hair several times a day, the hairs that get shed normally are "stuck" in the curls until the next shower.

If you read around on the internet long enough, you'll find people who had shedding "caused" by every brand of shampoo, conditioner, serum, hair spray, gel, mousse, DT, hard water, soft water, towels, brushes, combs, ACV rinses, WO-washing, CO-washing, sebum-only method, etc.

I've been dealing with my hair for 40+ years, and the best condition it's ever been in is the condition it's in right now as a result of CO-washing, no silicones, and only using gentle detangling methods (TT or wide comb with conditioner). I hope you find something that works for you.

Thank youm i hope i find something that works too. I might try CO washing after all but i don't think my hair likes Vo5, do you know of any other cone free conditioners (maybe Suave, but isn't it just the same thing) i could use for CO washig? You are right about the "there is a horrible review for everything", i just get so worried and parinoid about something going so wrong. I am open to anything, and have considered the curly girl method, but i have yet to find the right products to use. I will keep looking of this thread for ways to try and fix my hair, again thank you for the tips. Your hair is absolutly stunning, by the way, it must really love you and your current routiune, i wish my hair was that happy with me

[sycamoreboutiqu]

I strongly agree with the advice to CO wash - try it you might be surprised.

Strangely, I found that my hair has been getting wavier the older I get. I finally figured out why.

I no longer take the time to blow dry, and use a curling iron like I used to and now that I have adopted the curly girl method I never do. And my hair just keeps getting wavier, these days it spirals easily when wet.

Perhaps your shampoo / mousse combo is killing the natural wave you used to have, and might have again. Seems like it probably is.

Try the curly method for a week and see if you don't notice some improvement. CO washing was probably the single best thing I have done for my hair in years. Oiling would be the next or perhaps no heat. Probably no heat was the next most important, followed by oiling.



As smooth as my hair can get. Thank you Coconut Oil

[sycamoreboutiqu]

The problem I'm having these days (now that my ends are at hip) is that even a few minutes in the towel turban will still leave enough water in my hair for the ends to start dripping again a couple of minutes after I take the turban off. Can't seem to get enough out of the length (and most importantly, the scalp/nape area) without making the ends too dry to curl naturally.

It's all a learning curve...

I am at tailbone now and drying is quite an ordeal.

I have found that if I just spend some extra time squeezing out water over the tub that I get drier faster (it is still 12-16 hours if I have to put it up damp).

I just stay leaning over the tub and squeegee my scalp with my hands, working the water down through the ends and squeeze the ends between my fingers. I repeat this 7 or 8 times over 5 min or so until I can't squeeze anything more. Then I turban and leave it for a good 15 minutes - sometimes flipping the towel around to put the drier end at the scalp.

By this time it is at a damp stage that is manageable where I can sit and let it fall without drips.

[Theobroma]

I've never seen any medical reason for CO-washing causing shedding. Unless you're using a conditioner you're allergic to or something with a depilatory agent in it, there is nothing that should cause shedding other than what one would normally get.

I think what is more common is that people tend to actually rub their scalp more with conditioner than they do with shampoo, so more hair that would normally have been shed throughout the course of a normal day ends up getting shed in the shower.

I'm sure this is a factor, but I CO'ed exclusively for over a year and a half and for at least the last six months of that period, my shedding was noticeably and consistently heavier than I remember it being with shampoo. That and a buildup issue caused me (very reluctantly) to dig out my last, half-finished bottle of SLeS shampoo, and when I did so, the difference in how my scalp felt made me realise that CO hadn't been getting my scalp as clean as shampoo does. Perhaps that's a factor in shedding? At any rate, I lost only about half as much hair in my last two washes (with shampoo) than I normally shed in a CO wash, despite the same amount of scalp rubbing as I do with CO.

I'm planning to keep shampooing for a bit to see whether this is an actual trend or a one-off fluke. One thing I do like about shampooing is that it doesn't take as long, and my hair airdries more quickly too.

(Apologies for a post that's more relevant to the CO-washing thread than to this one...)

[GRU]

Thank youm i hope i find something that works too. I might try CO washing after all but i don't think my hair likes Vo5, do you know of any other cone free conditioners (maybe Suave, but isn't it just the same thing) i could use for CO washig?

I use Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut for both CO-washing and my leave-in.

Many people need to try several different products to find the one that works best for them -- every head of hair is unique, so there is no one "perfect" product. Read through the CO-washing thread for more info.

I'm sure this is a factor, but I CO'ed exclusively for over a year and a half and for at least the last six months of that period, my shedding was noticeably and consistently heavier than I remember it being with shampoo. That and a buildup issue caused me (very reluctantly) to dig out my last, half-finished bottle of SLeS shampoo, and when I did so, the difference in how my scalp felt made me realise that CO hadn't been getting my scalp as clean as shampoo does. Perhaps that's a factor in shedding? At any rate, I lost only about half as much hair in my last two washes (with shampoo) than I normally shed in a CO wash, despite the same amount of scalp rubbing as I do with CO.

I think some people get hung up on *only* CO-washing or *only* WO-washing or *only* shampoo-washing, etc. I like to see CO-washing or any of the other techniques as tools we have in our toolbox to use as the need arises. Just as in home repairs, sometimes you need a flat screwdriver, sometimes a Phillips screwdriver, sometimes a wrench, sometimes a hammer, etc.... hair care is just the same -- maybe CO-washing works well most of the time, but once a month or once every six months or once a year you need to shampoo, just like sometimes you may need an SMT or a protein treatment or whatever. Even if you're alternating between CO-washing and shampooing every other wash, you're still using the tools at your disposal to get the job done while minimizing the collateral damage. None of this needs to be an all-or-nothing type of gig.

As for factors in shedding, I think they're too numerous for us to even fathom. Humidity, temperature, stress, hormones, diet, pollutants, illnesses, seasons, barometric pressures, allergies.... unless someone's shedding has been verified by a healthcare worker (as in they have bald patches on their scalp) I tend to dismiss anecdotal claims that I see around here.

For example, most childhood ear infections are viral in origin. They will clear up on their own within 48-72 hours with no medical intervention whatsoever. But people take their kid to the doctor, and the doctor writes a prescription for antibiotics, and the kid starts to feel better about 48 hours later, so the parents think that the antibiotics "cured" the ear infection, and they want/expect/demand another prescription the next time their kid gets an ear infection. But if the doctor instead gave them a prescription to feed the kid nothing but chicken noodle soup for three days, and the kid started to feel better about 48 hours later, the parents would think that the soup "cured" the ear infection. And if the doctor instead gave them a prescription to have the kid sleep on the floor instead of the bed for three days.... they'd think that the floor-sleeping "cured" the ear infection.

This is why I tend to dismiss most claims of shedding caused by products that are created specifically for application to the hair or scalp... chances are it was random shedding, and it would have stopped whether the person changed their ways or not.

Conditioner is made to be applied to the head/hair/scalp -- it doesn't have a depilatory function. A particular ingredient may cause an allergic reaction, which may result in a dermatitis-related loss of hair, but that doesn't mean that "conditioner in general" is to blame. Same with brushes and combs... when I see people claim that a TT or BB or a comb or whatever "caused shedding" I see that as something that is physically impossible, unless they are bashing themselves in the head with it (to damage the follicle) or using the tool to forcibly yank hairs out by the root.... in neither case is that the fault of the instrument.

[Alibran]

Okay, now for the question, can i wash my hair every day for now until i develop a routine? I know its dryign and all that and i plan to wash my hair less frequently once all this is fixed (if it ever will be), but for now, are daily washings ok?

I wash every day by one method or another. It's the only way to actually keep moisture in my hair because I have very little, and very thick, sebum that doesn't travel down the hair shaft at all, and my hair doesn't take moisture at all well when it's dry.

Mostly, I CWC, but if my scalp doesn't need washing, I'll just skip the wash stage and condition. Occasionally, I S&C with a mild shampoo if I'm starting to get some build up.

My hair's short at the moment, and I probably won't grow beyond the point of it being practical to wash daily.

[curlsgalore]

I strongly agree with the advice to CO wash - try it you might be surprised.

Strangely, I found that my hair has been getting wavier the older I get. I finally figured out why.

I no longer take the time to blow dry, and use a curling iron like I used to and now that I have adopted the curly girl method I never do. And my hair just keeps getting wavier, these days it spirals easily when wet.

Perhaps your shampoo / mousse combo is killing the natural wave you used to have, and might have again. Seems like it probably is.

Try the curly method for a week and see if you don't notice some improvement. CO washing was probably the single best thing I have done for my hair in years. Oiling would be the next or perhaps no heat. Probably no heat was the next most important, followed by oiling.



As smooth as my hair can get. Thank you Coconut Oil

Your hair is gorgeous and so thick!! Off topic.....have you tried oil shampoo or do you just cowash?

[Theobroma]

I just stay leaning over the tub and squeegee my scalp with my hands, working the water down through the ends and squeeze the ends between my fingers. I repeat this 7 or 8 times over 5 min or so until I can't squeeze anything more. Then I turban and leave it for a good 15 minutes - sometimes flipping the towel around to put the drier end at the scalp.

Does it still curl naturally after 15 minutes in a towel turban? I find that my ends don't curl nicely if I leave them in the towel for too long -- but then I think my hair is less curly than yours to start with, and the curl is easily discouraged. Even contact with my body while drying will leave some parts of the length in an annoying state that's neither curly nor straight, and even if it dries nicely curly one pass with the comb will leave it in a fluffy semi-straight condition that's good only for putting in an updo!

[terylenerose]

Hi there, everyone! I have somewhat curly hair, though I can't say for sure if it's 2c or 3a. I don't have much to add to the discussion because I have spent far more time trying to straighten my hair than getting it to curl, but I have been thinking about possible changes to my routine that could make my hair hold its curl better. I'm not sure what to do yet. I'm going to try baking soda sometime, and I would like to be able to comb less but am not sure how to go about that.

[Hollyfire3]

I use Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut for both CO-washing and my leave-in.

Many people need to try several different products to find the one that works best for them -- every head of hair is unique, so there is no one "perfect" product. Read through the CO-washing thread for more info.





I think some people get hung up on *only* CO-washing or *only* WO-washing or *only* shampoo-washing, etc. I like to see CO-washing or any of the other techniques as tools we have in our toolbox to use as the need arises. Just as in home repairs, sometimes you need a flat screwdriver, sometimes a Phillips screwdriver, sometimes a wrench, sometimes a hammer, etc.... hair care is just the same -- maybe CO-washing works well most of the time, but once a month or once every six months or once a year you need to shampoo, just like sometimes you may need an SMT or a protein treatment or whatever. Even if you're alternating between CO-washing and shampooing every other wash, you're still using the tools at your disposal to get the job done while minimizing the collateral damage. None of this needs to be an all-or-nothing type of gig.

As for factors in shedding, I think they're too numerous for us to even fathom. Humidity, temperature, stress, hormones, diet, pollutants, illnesses, seasons, barometric pressures, allergies.... unless someone's shedding has been verified by a healthcare worker (as in they have bald patches on their scalp) I tend to dismiss anecdotal claims that I see around here.

For example, most childhood ear infections are viral in origin. They will clear up on their own within 48-72 hours with no medical intervention whatsoever. But people take their kid to the doctor, and the doctor writes a prescription for antibiotics, and the kid starts to feel better about 48 hours later, so the parents think that the antibiotics "cured" the ear infection, and they want/expect/demand another prescription the next time their kid gets an ear infection. But if the doctor instead gave them a prescription to feed the kid nothing but chicken noodle soup for three days, and the kid started to feel better about 48 hours later, the parents would think that the soup "cured" the ear infection. And if the doctor instead gave them a prescription to have the kid sleep on the floor instead of the bed for three days.... they'd think that the floor-sleeping "cured" the ear infection.

This is why I tend to dismiss most claims of shedding caused by products that are created specifically for application to the hair or scalp... chances are it was random shedding, and it would have stopped whether the person changed their ways or not.

Conditioner is made to be applied to the head/hair/scalp -- it doesn't have a depilatory function. A particular ingredient may cause an allergic reaction, which may result in a dermatitis-related loss of hair, but that doesn't mean that "conditioner in general" is to blame. Same with brushes and combs... when I see people claim that a TT or BB or a comb or whatever "caused shedding" I see that as something that is physically impossible, unless they are bashing themselves in the head with it (to damage the follicle) or using the tool to forcibly yank hairs out by the root.... in neither case is that the fault of the instrument.

This gives me new hope, i might try the CO washing method tonight thank you so much