Wurly and Curly thread!!!

**Syren_Curls** · July 28th, 2014, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by SereneCurls

Thanks Syren_Curls. Yes, I've read that as well. I've been co-washing since the beginning of July, and so far I haven't noticed any difference in curl. I'm still sticking with it, because my hair is way less dry and my scalp is much happier, but I think I have a curl pattern that gets looser with length. What other changes have you made?

I'm happy to hear that you're seeing some benefits from co washing! I've cut down on heavy coconut oilings and started using a light moisture mist instead of a second conditioner after co washing. I have fine hair so the follow up conditioner had been weighing my hair down. Like yours, my curl pattern was sort of elongating with the length. I like curls so I wanted to minimize that, which meant minimizing it being weighed down. In terms of styling, I have started using flaxseed gel, which I love. It has really helped my curl pattern pop so far and the spirals I have aren't limp or disappearing anymore. I also plop for a bit shorter time frame but notice my hair is drying more quickly anyway, which is a relief... three feet of wet hair down my back for four hours minimum wasn't fun, especially since I was also trying to leave the curls undisturbed as they dried :-)

**SereneCurls** · July 28th, 2014, 06:42 PM

A long drying time also irritates me. My issue is giving my hair the rich products it seems to need while not weighing my curls down in the process. I've just tried flax seed gel this summer, and I love the results on the first day. I notice it doesn't refresh quite as well as some of my other products though, maybe I'll have more luck with it in the winter when I don't have so much trouble with humidity induced frizz.

**Syren_Curls** · July 29th, 2014, 06:44 PM

SereneCurls, have you tried an SMT?? If that, or variations of it, work well for your hair, maybe building it into your routine once a week or month for awhile can help your hair get to the point of restoration and more easily maintain the more nourished aspect. I would use a moisture mist in the few days following your SMT's though to prevent the weighing down effect ;-) The mist I use is the Shea Moisture coconut (my favorite thing ever!) and hibiscus, which has some protein. I notice that if I just splash a bit of water on my FSG-ed hair, the gel refreshes nicely. Without that, second and beyond hair, like for you, doesn't quite look as fab and glam as day one. With a bit of water, though, it looks like the first day for me.

**MJ1972** · July 29th, 2014, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by SereneCurls

What I'd like to know is, did any of you who went from a sulfate free poo to co washing notice a difference in your curl pattern, either immediately or over time?

For me, it depends on whether I use apple cider vinegar or not. If I only use conditioner, my hair is curlier than when I still used shampoo, especially on wash day (it straightens a bit on Day 2). If I use apple cider vinegar after CO-washing, which I do every third wash or so, my hair comes out straighter. I love the straightening effect of ACV, but unfortunately, my scalp hates the stuff, so I have to be careful about how I use it. If I only put it on my length, I'm fine; if I get some on my scalp, I'm in trouble.

**Syren_Curls** · July 29th, 2014, 09:21 PM

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for encouraging clumping... my curls are doing well in terms of the pattern, moisture, etc. (yaaay!) but since I have been using finger combing and a super widely toothed comb (the last of the brown pics here!) to fully distribute my LI mist and FSG, my hair isn't clumping as much. Any suggestions? I currently plop and scrunch but and wondering about anything to help clump further.

**SereneCurls** · July 30th, 2014, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Syren_Curls

SereneCurls, have you tried an SMT?? If that, or variations of it, work well for your hair, maybe building it into your routine once a week or month for awhile can help your hair get to the point of restoration and more easily maintain the more nourished aspect. I would use a moisture mist in the few days following your SMT's though to prevent the weighing down effect ;-) The mist I use is the Shea Moisture coconut (my favorite thing ever!) and hibiscus, which has some protein. I notice that if I just splash a bit of water on my FSG-ed hair, the gel refreshes nicely. Without that, second and beyond hair, like for you, doesn't quite look as fab and glam as day one. With a bit of water, though, it looks like the first day for me.

I do an smt when I remember to, usually once a month or so, but maybe I should increase the frequency to see if it makes a difference. My hair always behaves itself afterward. I can get good second day hair when I use a harder hold gel on the first day, I've actually been experimenting with fsg on second day to help reclump a bit and reduce frizz. I'm hoping this will work out long term.

Originally Posted by MJ1972

For me, it depends on whether I use apple cider vinegar or not. If I only use conditioner, my hair is curlier than when I still used shampoo, especially on wash day (it straightens a bit on Day 2). If I use apple cider vinegar after CO-washing, which I do every third wash or so, my hair comes out straighter. I love the straightening effect of ACV, but unfortunately, my scalp hates the stuff, so I have to be careful about how I use it. If I only put it on my length, I'm fine; if I get some on my scalp, I'm in trouble.

That's so interesting, acv has really been helping my scalp, and I've been avoiding getting it on my length to minimize any potential drying. It's funny how something can have the opposite effect for different people.

Originally Posted by Syren_Curls

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for encouraging clumping... my curls are doing well in terms of the pattern, moisture, etc. (yaaay!) but since I have been using finger combing and a super widely toothed comb (the last of the brown pics here!) to fully distribute my LI mist and FSG, my hair isn't clumping as much. Any suggestions? I currently plop and scrunch but and wondering about anything to help clump further.

Have you heard of, or tried, the super soaker technique? That gets me great clumps after I comb through my leave in. I do all my application in the shower so as not to make a mess.

**Firefox7275** · July 30th, 2014, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Syren_Curls

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for encouraging clumping... my curls are doing well in terms of the pattern, moisture, etc. (yaaay!) but since I have been using finger combing and a super widely toothed comb (the last of the brown pics here!) to fully distribute my LI mist and FSG, my hair isn't clumping as much. Any suggestions? I currently plop and scrunch but and wondering about anything to help clump further.

Try the palming/ prayer hands or rope scrunching/ Scott Musgrave MAP method for even product distribution and clumping. I also find fatty alcohols in my leave in conditioner far more helpful than cationic surfactants.

**MJ1972** · July 30th, 2014, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by SereneCurls

That's so interesting, acv has really been helping my scalp, and I've been avoiding getting it on my length to minimize any potential drying. It's funny how something can have the opposite effect for different people.

I know! I'm amazed every single time I see ACV recommended as a method to calm an itchy scalp. I get a mad itch whenever I put ACV on my scalp. Then again, I have ridiculously sensitive skin. I can't use products containing argan oil, either, as they make my skin crawl.

My length loves ACV, though. It calms down the frizzies and results in wonderfully soft, silky hair. I should probably use it more often...

**Syren_Curls** · July 31st, 2014, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by SereneCurls

I do an smt when I remember to, usually once a month or so, but maybe I should increase the frequency to see if it makes a difference. My hair always behaves itself afterward. I can get good second day hair when I use a harder hold gel on the first day, I've actually been experimenting with fsg on second day to help reclump a bit and reduce frizz. I'm hoping this will work out long term.

Maybe try it more frequently for a little while, then your hair may not need it as frequently to behave :-) You can also try adding a bit of honey or other additives with nutrients into your fsg if you do end up using that a bit more...

Originally Posted by SereneCurls

Have you heard of, or tried, the super soaker technique? That gets me great clumps after I comb through my leave in. I do all my application in the shower so as not to make a mess.

This technique sounded fun when I read it in your post and looked like a really great strategy from the video I found online. I think this will be a big help since my hair does clump and hold its curl when its soaked. Do you put in your products after the leave in, comb through, then super soak? I'll be doing mine in the shower too :-) I feel like I have more than enough cleaning of hair related mess with just the shed hairs, lol. I'll try this out in the next wash, thank you for sharing it with me.

Originally Posted by FIREFOX7275

Try the palming/ prayer hands or rope scrunching/ Scott Musgrave MAP method for even product distribution and clumping. I also find fatty alcohols in my leave in conditioner far more helpful than cationic surfactants.

Thank you, these were some other techniques I wasn't familiar with. I did some research online for how to do the prayer hands and rope scrunching/SM MAP method and tried it last night. My hair looked really full and very attention-getting today, but my curls were pulled loose :-/ I'm a 3a, but with fine hair and almost at tailbone so they were probably weighed down as the day/drying went on. I will keep experimenting with it and see if I can make it work a bit better.

I also appreciated your comment about ingredients. I use STC for co-wash and the Shea Moisture moisture mist for LI... I know the STC has a decent amount of the fatty alcohols but maybe my second condish/LI should also do that. I'll have to check on the LI and keep that in mind :-) Thanks for mentioning that so I can check it out!

As for the ACV, my curls tighten up a bit but they become stringy and very separated, to the point that it almost feels to me like they have straightened, lol. MJ1972, have you been putting it on your scalp diluted or straight from the bottle?? I imagine diluting it with water, maybe even distilled if you have hard water and super sensitive skin or scalp, where it is about 10 percent ACV and 90 percent water might help with the irritation so you can get some of the benefits of it on your scalp. Maybe even diluting it in aloe juice could help with that :-/

**Firefox7275** · August 1st, 2014, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by Syren_Curls

I also appreciated your comment about ingredients. I use STC for co-wash and the Shea Moisture moisture mist for LI... I know the STC has a decent amount of the fatty alcohols but maybe my second condish/LI should also do that. I'll have to check on the LI and keep that in mind :-) Thanks for mentioning that so I can check it out!

Your leave in mist is not a 'true' conditioner, it has nothing in the way of major emollients (fatty alcohols/ cationic surfactants). It does have a little protein, which can be particularly useful for fine hair if hydrolysed (boosts curl and body/ volume, patch repairs damage).

If you do not want to use a creamy type leave in conditioner you could make your flaxseed jelly into a flaxseed curl cream: see Sciencey Hairblog for recipe.